Author Topic: Dissenting ROCOR Parishes & Clergy  (Read 2315 times)

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Offline TinaG

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Dissenting ROCOR Parishes & Clergy
« on: May 25, 2007, 03:05:53 PM »
Does anyone have a clear count yet of the number of parishes or clergy that are leaving ROCOR following the re-unification and where they are going?  I saw some indication on the St. Euphrosynos Cafe list that a dozen or so clergy were throwing their lot in with Bishop Afaganel of the Ukraine (?).  It's only been a week so maybe it's too early to see how things are going.
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Offline drewmeister2

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Re: Dissenting ROCOR Parishes & Clergy
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2007, 03:38:37 PM »
You are correct.  Some have already gone with Bp. Agafangel in the Ukraine, others have gone with the Synod in Resistane under Met. Cyprian of Oropos and Fili, Greece (who has received 3 Monasteries and one parish), others have gone with the Russian True Orthodox Church under Abp. Tikhon (they received about 4 or 5 in America and about 5 priests in Australia), a few have gone over to the Genuine Orthodox Church under Met. Pavlos of Astoria, and I think a few have gone over to ROCiE under the reposed +Met. Vitaly, although I could be wrong.  In previous years, some also went to the Russian Orthodox Autonomous Church under Met. Valentine of Suzdal after the 2000 Sobor.  So, as you can see, people from ROCOR have gone to all the various Synods.   
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Offline Heorhij

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Re: Dissenting ROCOR Parishes & Clergy
« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2007, 02:58:43 PM »
There is no need for "the" preceding Ukraine. Since August 24, 1991, Ukraine is an idependent country (yes, Virginia:)). Although some countries retain the definite article (the Netherlands, la France), most don't. We don't say "the England," "the Germany," "the Romania," "the China," - so we should not say, by the same logic, "the Ukraine."

What jurisdiction is Vladyka Afafangel of? Thanks!
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Offline Starlight

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Re: Dissenting ROCOR Parishes & Clergy
« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2007, 06:41:33 PM »
Thank you for clarification, Heorhij.
Bishop Agathangel was in ROCOR(L) until now. He oversaw ROCOR parishes in Ukraine and a couple of more in Moldova.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2007, 06:42:58 PM by Starlight »

Offline Bono Vox

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Re: Dissenting ROCOR Parishes & Clergy
« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2007, 12:24:57 AM »
Those who continue to split have a schismatic spirit about them. union of the church should be joyful. I don't get some Orthodox. Some people have to be "dead right".
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Offline minasoliman

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Re: Dissenting ROCOR Parishes & Clergy
« Reply #5 on: May 30, 2007, 12:55:10 PM »
Well, I personally would expect this.  I always had the impression about ROCOR as anti-Sergianism, anti-ecumenism, anti-modernism, and yet nowadays they unite with the MP?  It came as a shock to me.  Unity is something that is arduous, not something that a few people agree about and then meet at an altar.  Unity takes preparation and explanation.  It's no wonder why there's schisms in ROCOR.  People did not take the time to understand and teach about the situation behind the "agreements."

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Offline scamandrius

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Re: Dissenting ROCOR Parishes & Clergy
« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2007, 01:07:20 PM »
Well, I personally would expect this.  I always had the impression about ROCOR as anti-Sergianism, anti-ecumenism, anti-modernism, and yet nowadays they unite with the MP?  It came as a shock to me.  Unity is something that is arduous, not something that a few people agree about and then meet at an altar.  Unity takes preparation and explanation.  It's no wonder why there's schisms in ROCOR.  People did not take the time to understand and teach about the situation behind the "agreements."

God bless.

I'm not ROCOR, but I think you are right on the money, Mina.  This reunification, to my mind, was accomplished with the same kind of laxness that various Protestants, who seem to have nothing in common, use to come into communion with one another.  Unity for the sake of unity never happens and only inflames more passions.

Some people have to be "dead right".

I think those who are skeptical of this reunification want to be right for the right reasons, not simply go headlong into an agreement which really does not address the past issues of the schism.  THAT is important, wouldn't you say?
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Offline dantxny

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Re: Dissenting ROCOR Parishes & Clergy
« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2007, 01:27:04 PM »
One thing I should comment too as someone in ROCOR is that the union was sprung upon us quite suddenly.  We always knew that it was being discussed, but it was being pursued quite hush-hush, and the sudden announcements happened quite suddenly and unexpected with little reassurance by the heiarchs.  This has not made that good of an impression.
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I think the French may be on to something here.

Offline ROCORthodox

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Re: Dissenting ROCOR Parishes & Clergy
« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2007, 01:49:30 PM »
Add to that the volumes of ROCOR essays and synodical decrees through out the years all which drive home - in detail - why ROCOR cannot unite with the MP.  Now all of the sudden all of those arguments and decrees were wrong all along.   For all those who have already disconnected from the MP/ROCOR union, there are many more still in ROCOR who against the union just waiting to see what happens.  Most of the Eastern US parishes are not commemorating Pat. Alexi II - and have not been commanded to via Ukaz. 

Offline Bono Vox

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Re: Dissenting ROCOR Parishes & Clergy
« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2007, 09:42:18 PM »
Quote
I think those who are skeptical of this reunification want to be right for the right reasons, not simply go headlong into an agreement which really does not address the past issues of the schism.  THAT is important, wouldn't you say?

I think that ROCOR and the MP are both equally Orthodox and it is the same Body and Blood of Christ in the Chalice. I think many of the schisims in the Orthodox church are riddiculous. It makes us look like fools to many Catholics and neo-Catholic groups. I personally know several people who have become Roman Catholic instead of Orthodox because of how divided we are. They say, "how can the Orthodox church be the true church when it is so splintered and divided??" They bring up a valid point.

If the Orthodox church is the true church, then we need to quit acting like protestants and being schismatic, and be the one holy, catholic and apostolic church.
Troparion - Tone 1:
O Sebastian, spurning the assemblies of the wicked,You gathered the wise martyrs Who with you cast down the enemy; And standing worthily before the throne of God, You gladden those who cry to you:Glory to him who has strengthened you! Glory to him who has granted you a crown!

Offline scamandrius

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Re: Dissenting ROCOR Parishes & Clergy
« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2007, 12:21:12 AM »
I think that ROCOR and the MP are both equally Orthodox and it is the same Body and Blood of Christ in the Chalice. I think many of the schisims in the Orthodox church are riddiculous. It makes us look like fools to many Catholics and neo-Catholic groups. I personally know several people who have become Roman Catholic instead of Orthodox because of how divided we are. They say, "how can the Orthodox church be the true church when it is so splintered and divided??" They bring up a valid point.

If the Orthodox church is the true church, then we need to quit acting like protestants and being schismatic, and be the one holy, catholic and apostolic church.

And many of our beliefs that we hold dear in Orthodoxy make us look foolish to many.  Perhaps we should jettison those too, for some street cred?  Why should we care what the CAtholics think of us?  And if their "unity" is something to be desired and imposed upon us at the expense of the tenets of the one true faith, then why not simply become Roman Catholic?

I probably will be ridiculed for what I am about to say.  If you wish to comment upon it, please do so, but I, personally, believe that it is schisms such as these which really prove that Orthodoxy is the One True Church and the One True Faith or else why would Satan be taking such time and energy to destroy it?  Just MHO.  Fire away.
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Offline observer

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Re: Dissenting ROCOR Parishes & Clergy
« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2007, 01:04:22 PM »
The Church of Christ is not divided. I say to RCCs come on board.  And to the big guys with the guns and cash - are you sure you are doing what Christ wants?   I love Russia and its grass-roots piety.  I believe this union is political and furthers the ambitions of certain hierarchs.  Of course union is desirable - but probably not yet.  I know.. lets have union after MP and ROCOR have cleared out the current management, then we can have that union which is spiritual... but I dream 8)
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Offline Punch

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Re: Dissenting ROCOR Parishes & Clergy
« Reply #12 on: May 31, 2007, 01:06:48 PM »
And many of our beliefs that we hold dear in Orthodoxy make us look foolish to many.  Perhaps we should jettison those too, for some street cred?  Why should we care what the CAtholics think of us?  And if their "unity" is something to be desired and imposed upon us at the expense of the tenets of the one true faith, then why not simply become Roman Catholic?

I probably will be ridiculed for what I am about to say.  If you wish to comment upon it, please do so, but I, personally, believe that it is schisms such as these which really prove that Orthodoxy is the One True Church and the One True Faith or else why would Satan be taking such time and energy to destroy it?  Just MHO.  Fire away.

Amen.
I would be happy to agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.

Offline drewmeister2

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Re: Dissenting ROCOR Parishes & Clergy
« Reply #13 on: May 31, 2007, 01:08:33 PM »
I think that ROCOR and the MP are both equally Orthodox and it is the same Body and Blood of Christ in the Chalice. I think many of the schisims in the Orthodox church are riddiculous. It makes us look like fools to many Catholics and neo-Catholic groups. I personally know several people who have become Roman Catholic instead of Orthodox because of how divided we are. They say, "how can the Orthodox church be the true church when it is so splintered and divided??" They bring up a valid point.

If the Orthodox church is the true church, then we need to quit acting like protestants and being schismatic, and be the one holy, catholic and apostolic church.

Orthodoxy is not always defined by who you are in communion with.  Read Metropolitan St. Philaret of New York's Sorrowful Epistles and you will see why many object to this union.  His words were meant to last, not to be cast away when they were inconvenient.
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Offline St. Christopher

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Re: Dissenting ROCOR Parishes & Clergy
« Reply #14 on: May 31, 2007, 06:36:14 PM »
And many of our beliefs that we hold dear in Orthodoxy make us look foolish to many.  Perhaps we should jettison those too, for some street cred?  Why should we care what the CAtholics think of us?  And if their "unity" is something to be desired and imposed upon us at the expense of the tenets of the one true faith, then why not simply become Roman Catholic?

I probably will be ridiculed for what I am about to say.  If you wish to comment upon it, please do so, but I, personally, believe that it is schisms such as these which really prove that Orthodoxy is the One True Church and the One True Faith or else why would Satan be taking such time and energy to destroy it?  Just MHO.  Fire away.
By this logic, wouldn't one of the Protestant churches have to be the true church?  Many of them make the EOC look like the Borg (completely unified in thought.)

Offline GiC

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Re: Dissenting ROCOR Parishes & Clergy
« Reply #15 on: May 31, 2007, 06:57:28 PM »
By this logic, wouldn't one of the Protestant churches have to be the true church?  Many of them make the EOC look like the Borg (completely unified in thought.)

Resistance is Futile!!!
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Offline scamandrius

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Re: Dissenting ROCOR Parishes & Clergy
« Reply #16 on: May 31, 2007, 11:55:48 PM »



WE ARE THE EOC!  RESISTANCE IS FUTILE!


Sorry, St. Christopher and GIC, I couldn't resist!
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