Author Topic: reunion ROCOR & MP  (Read 1928 times)

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Offline Tallitot

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reunion ROCOR & MP
« on: May 19, 2007, 09:00:00 PM »
If I understand correctly the  ROCOR and the Moscow Patriarchate are now in Canonical Communion with each other. What does this mean on the parish level? Are other churches in Communion with the MP now automatically in Communion with ROCOR? Does this mean the OCA and ROCOR are now in Communion also?
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Offline Pravoslavbob

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Re: reunion ROCOR & MP
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2007, 09:33:12 PM »
Are other churches in Communion with the MP now automatically in Communion with ROCOR? Does this mean the OCA and ROCOR are now in Communion also?

Yes.  Of course, many would say that ROCOR was never completely or even partially "out of communion" with other Orthodox jurisdictions, since ROCOR denied communion to members of other jusrisdictions as a protest against others wholeheartedly accepting the MP.  So one might simply say that things have been "regularized" now between ROCOR and other Orthodox Churches.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2007, 09:38:06 PM by Pravoslavbob »
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Offline Tamara

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Re: reunion ROCOR & MP
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2007, 11:56:53 PM »
If I understand correctly the  ROCOR and the Moscow Patriarchate are now in Canonical Communion with each other. What does this mean on the parish level? Are other churches in Communion with the MP now automatically in Communion with ROCOR? Does this mean the OCA and ROCOR are now in Communion also?

It means many things on the local level that were not possible before like we can have a ROCOR hieromonk come deliver  lectures at an Antiochian parish. I look forward to more interaction with the local ROCOR parishes and clergy.

Just think, this reunion happened without the Orthodox Church having one supreme human leader intervening to make it happen. The One, True Head of the Church was able to bring about this healing.

Offline Bono Vox

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Re: reunion ROCOR & MP
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2007, 12:25:28 AM »
What does ROCOR and the Moscows reuniting mean for the OCA??? If Moscow gave us our autocephalicy, does this cause any problems for us? I think this is wonderful news. I am just curious.
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Offline Innocent_T

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Re: reunion ROCOR & MP
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2007, 01:39:07 AM »
What does ROCOR and the Moscows reuniting mean for the OCA??? If Moscow gave us our autocephalicy, does this cause any problems for us? I think this is wonderful news. I am just curious.

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Offline Elisha

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Re: reunion ROCOR & MP
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2007, 01:54:07 AM »
What does ROCOR and the Moscows reuniting mean for the OCA??? If Moscow gave us our autocephalicy, does this cause any problems for us? I think this is wonderful news. I am just curious.

Why would it?  Ask you bishop.  You're speculating about things unnecessarily (not that you're the only one by a long shot).  I would rather doubt that you will NOT see any local concelebrationgs in the very near future (like imminently).

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: reunion ROCOR & MP
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2007, 01:54:35 AM »
What does ROCOR and the Moscows reuniting mean for the OCA??? If Moscow gave us our autocephalicy, does this cause any problems for us? I think this is wonderful news. I am just curious.

I don't know, but I'm certainly interested to see.  Not like there hasn't been great tension between the ROCOR and the Metropolia/OCA before...  :'(  But considering that the ROCOR is now warming up considerably to the MP, I would have to hope that this means that the ROCOR is also warming up just as much to the American daughter of the MP.  :)

Something else to think about... I think the ROCOR set as one of their conditions for reunion that Moscow would continue to recognize ROCOR's practical self-governance, so this probably means that the ROCOR will continue to govern itself as the ROCOR without being completely absorbed into the MP.
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Offline Elisha

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Re: reunion ROCOR & MP
« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2007, 01:59:35 AM »

Something else to think about... I think the ROCOR set as one of their conditions for reunion that Moscow would continue to recognize ROCOR's practical self-governance, so this probably means that the ROCOR will continue to govern itself as the ROCOR without being completely absorbed into the MP.

Yes, this is correct.

Another thing, this talk about "denying communion" or whatever.  As a general praxis, ROCOR priests will not give Communion unless one has confessed the night before.  This has NOTHING to do with the political/communion situation OR even if one is NOT in ROCOR.  I know many people that are NOT in ROCOR who DO commune in ROCOR parishes...IF they have confessed the night before.  Likewise, I will not go up for communion in my (OCA) parish if I don't feel properly prepared nor should anyone as well and I'm sure most of you have heard your priest or read material that speaks of this.  This is a "praxis" issue and not one of "being in communion".  Clergy concelebrations is one of "being in communion".  THAT is up to the hierarchs to decide and approve.

Offline Pravoslavbob

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Re: reunion ROCOR & MP
« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2007, 02:14:42 PM »
Another thing, this talk about "denying communion" or whatever.  As a general praxis, ROCOR priests will not give Communion unless one has confessed the night before.  This has NOTHING to do with the political/communion situation OR even if one is NOT in ROCOR.  I know many people that are NOT in ROCOR who DO commune in ROCOR parishes...IF they have confessed the night before.  Likewise, I will not go up for communion in my (OCA) parish if I don't feel properly prepared nor should anyone as well and I'm sure most of you have heard your priest or read material that speaks of this.  This is a "praxis" issue and not one of "being in communion".  Clergy concelebrations is one of "being in communion".  THAT is up to the hierarchs to decide and approve.

Individual priests may well have given communion to other Orthodox Christians up until now, but I am quite certain that my general assessment of the situation is correct.  Dantxny, who is ROCOR and a moderator on this forum, agreed with my analysis whole-heartedly in an earlier thread,where I outlined the ROCOR stance on relations with the rest of the Church more fully.  (Please see the link below.)  The whole confession issue is another thing entirely.  This has been discussed on other threads last year and/or perhaps this year too, I think.  If you read my post above, you would have seen that I do not disagree about the whole "being in communion" issue when I spoke of "regularization" of relations. 

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,10072.75.html
Moscow Patriarchate/ROCOR Update
« Last Edit: May 20, 2007, 02:51:39 PM by Pravoslavbob »
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Offline observer

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Re: reunion ROCOR & MP
« Reply #9 on: May 20, 2007, 05:25:41 PM »
The MP is the Blob, the audience busy watching the movie are ROCOR.
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Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: reunion ROCOR & MP
« Reply #10 on: May 20, 2007, 08:42:28 PM »
The MP is the Blob, the audience busy watching the movie are ROCOR.

WTH is that supposed to mean?  ???
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Offline ozgeorge

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Re: reunion ROCOR & MP
« Reply #11 on: May 20, 2007, 08:48:01 PM »
WTH is that supposed to mean?  ???
Isn't it obvious? The Blob was a horror movie, and as we all know, horror movies are fictional creations designed to scare people. If ROCOR is the audience watching the movie, then someone is trying to scare them with fictional information about the MP. So the real question is: Who is the Producer and Director of the movie?
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Offline Elisha

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Re: reunion ROCOR & MP
« Reply #12 on: May 20, 2007, 10:23:09 PM »
Individual priests may well have given communion to other Orthodox Christians up until now, but I am quite certain that my general assessment of the situation is correct.  Dantxny, who is ROCOR and a moderator on this forum, agreed with my analysis whole-heartedly in an earlier thread,where I outlined the ROCOR stance on relations with the rest of the Church more fully.  (Please see the link below.)  The whole confession issue is another thing entirely.  This has been discussed on other threads last year and/or perhaps this year too, I think.  If you read my post above, you would have seen that I do not disagree about the whole "being in communion" issue when I spoke of "regularization" of relations. 

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,10072.75.html
Moscow Patriarchate/ROCOR Update


I read the link...and don't see anything inconsistent compared to what I just posted.

Offline StephenG

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Re: reunion ROCOR & MP
« Reply #13 on: May 21, 2007, 05:24:30 AM »
Apparently Bishop Agafangel of Odessa and his diocese together with some clergy from north America have now left ROCOR because of the issues of sergianism and ecumenism of the MP.