Author Topic: Orthodox evangelism throughout the world  (Read 16471 times)

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Offline authio

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Re: Orthodox evangelism throughout the world
« Reply #90 on: May 17, 2007, 08:12:05 PM »
I read his book on baptism, it didn't seem to cover this ground.

If he said the liturgy has been radically clericalized (in addition to the typikon being monasticized) since the 5th century (give or take a few years) until essentially being frozen in the 14th century, I would say he's pretty much correct.  When you go in to an Orthodox church you don't see the "early church", you see medieval Byzantium.

He doesn't go that far - the Holy Spirit has something to do with liturgical development.  I recommend reading The Eucharist.  It's his high point in his writings - he goes through the development of the liturgy to its current form.
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Offline AMM

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Re: Orthodox evangelism throughout the world
« Reply #91 on: May 17, 2007, 08:29:44 PM »
I'm purposely being a little extreme in my arguments.  Mostly I think my point is to say we shouldn't hesitate to question what we do and why we do it.  I believe Fr. Schmemann did the same thing with communion and the way in which infrequent communion had entered the life of the church.  Not all developments are good.

I wouldn't actually advocate abolishing choirs, and I knew that would get a rise out of people.  Choirs can have a negative impact though in some circumstances based on what I have seen in various parishes.  The liturgy is the work of the people, not the priest and the choir director.

Offline Ebor

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Re: Orthodox evangelism throughout the world
« Reply #92 on: May 18, 2007, 10:12:26 AM »
Choirs can have a negative impact though in some circumstances based on what I have seen in various parishes.  The liturgy is the work of the people, not the priest and the choir director.

Maybe it's a parish by parish kind of thing.  Having a choir hasn't kept the congregation from singing in my parish. (which has sometimes been jestingly referred to as "St. Marks and All Verses" because the congregation is set on singing all of a hymn and not just the first one or two verses.)

Ebor
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Offline Fr. David

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Re: Orthodox evangelism throughout the world
« Reply #93 on: May 19, 2007, 01:21:56 PM »
Maybe it's a parish by parish kind of thing.  Having a choir hasn't kept the congregation from singing in my parish. (which has sometimes been jestingly referred to as "St. Marks and All Verses" because the congregation is set on singing all of a hymn and not just the first one or two verses.)

Heh!   :D

Seriously, though, welkodox...erm..."wel" said. (Sorry.  ::))  I'm a member of our choir in our parish, and I would LOVE to hear more congregational singing.  As to all this...

In North America:

The various jurisdictions would need to unite to drop redundant structures.
Congregations would need to be told they are part of missionary societies, not preservers of customs or cultures.  Activity in surrounding communities should be encouraged.
Every parish should encourage and support young people going on mission trips.
National monikers, titles, etc. would go.
There should be a single updated, modern English usage for liturgical texts.
The dues system would have to go, and tithing encouraged.  Giving for missions should be stressed.
The apologetic material used and distributed should be updated, vastly improved and made uniform.
The Western Rite should be made available for those that want it, and not treated like the red-headed step child everyone is embarrassed about.
The role of women in the church should be addressed, and the order of deaconesses revived.
Put an Orthodox mission near every major theological institution.

Worldwide:

The church needs to act and think like a single universal entity, and not a disparate bunch of national churches.
Ethno-phyletism and the identification of religion with nationality has to be banished forever.
The church should support individual liberty and freedom as fundamental rights.

::Standing Ovation:: Couldn't have said it better myself!
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