Author Topic: Oriental Orthodox Signs of Sanctity?  (Read 2678 times)

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Offline isaakios

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Oriental Orthodox Signs of Sanctity?
« on: May 06, 2007, 03:05:38 AM »
Hello,

As an EO Christian I was recently reading the lives of some OO saints that made me wonder about whether there were phenomena that the OO Churches belief to be indications of a person's sanctity.

For instance, many EO saints' bodies do not decay (incorruption).  Also, many times their bones are fragrant and/or gush myrrh. 

Do similar things happen to OO saints?

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Offline Anastasios

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Re: Oriental Orthodox Signs of Sanctity?
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2007, 01:34:35 PM »
Hello,

As an EO Christian I was recently reading the lives of some OO saints that made me wonder about whether there were phenomena that the OO Churches belief to be indications of a person's sanctity.

For instance, many EO saints' bodies do not decay (incorruption).  Also, many times their bones are fragrant and/or gush myrrh. 

Do similar things happen to OO saints?



Sure, but this also happens in the RC Church, the Moslem religion, and the Hindu religion.  It would seem to me that this is not a surefire criterian of sancticty.
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Offline isaakios

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Re: Oriental Orthodox Signs of Sanctity?
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2007, 05:27:09 PM »
Well, I'd like to think that signs from God are in some way qualitatively different, even if there are "lying signs and wonders" too.  I was looking for specific examples.

As for RCism, I have heard of their "incorruptibles" but they cover them in wax and from what someone once told me, the lack of decay is not exactly "fragrant". 

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Offline Entscheidungsproblem

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Re: Oriental Orthodox Signs of Sanctity?
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2007, 06:40:43 PM »
As for RCism, I have heard of their "incorruptibles" but they cover them in wax and from what someone once told me, the lack of decay is not exactly "fragrant". 

Some Roman Catholic Incorruptibles have wax masks created to cover over discolourations or possible desiccation of the facial skin (i.e.: Bernadette of Lourdes) and many stories of the 'Odour of Sanctity' can be found (some after the body is exhumed, some for days after death, some from wounds [i.e.: stigmata])
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Offline Isaac

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Re: Oriental Orthodox Signs of Sanctity?
« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2007, 06:53:55 PM »
Interesting.  The wax mask just has no eastern analogue... it seems deceptive, almost. 

But what about OO saints?  Are there similar manifestations?

Offline Salpy

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Re: Oriental Orthodox Signs of Sanctity?
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2007, 08:42:09 PM »
I seem to recall hearing of a Coptic saint whose body was found a while back, and it had not deteriorated.  I cannot remember the name of the saint, however.

Offline Entscheidungsproblem

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Re: Oriental Orthodox Signs of Sanctity?
« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2007, 11:49:26 PM »
St. Bishoy (Pishoy)'s body is incorruptible I believe, and he is venerated by only the Oriental Orthodox Churches.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2007, 11:50:57 PM by Friul »
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Offline Didymus

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Re: Oriental Orthodox Signs of Sanctity?
« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2007, 12:14:33 AM »
Hopefully somebody more knowledgable about this topic will respond but I believe it was St. Bishoy who used to put his hand outside his coffin and shake the hands of people on his annual feast day until recently when an atheist shook his hand and the saint refused to let go of him. The poor atheist created somewhat of a scene and after that the monks decided to cover the whole in the side of the saint's coffin so that no more vistitors would be frightened.

I can tell you that numerous saints have been seen walking on the walls of St. Anthony's Monastry in Egypt. The army fires at them sometimes, not that it's any use.

I have not heard of incoruptibles outside of the Christian Faith.
Could somebody please provide some examples if these do indeed exist?
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Offline Entscheidungsproblem

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Re: Oriental Orthodox Signs of Sanctity?
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2007, 12:22:40 AM »
I have not heard of incoruptibles outside of the Christian Faith.
Could somebody please provide some examples if these do indeed exist?

Dashi-Dorzho Itigilov is the only one I know off the top of my head.  He was a Buddhist.  Sorry to venture off topic from the original post.
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Offline Didymus

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Re: Oriental Orthodox Signs of Sanctity?
« Reply #9 on: May 08, 2007, 06:08:24 AM »
In regards to Dashi-Dorzho Itigilov, where abouts was he burried? Russia is cold so perhaps he froze?

The picture on Wikipaedia looks as though he has decayed a little although he does seem well preserved hence the question above.

The scientists say something about bromine but I'm not much of one for listening to oppositions of vain science anyway. That is not to say that it is always vain.
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Offline Entscheidungsproblem

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Re: Oriental Orthodox Signs of Sanctity?
« Reply #10 on: May 08, 2007, 07:07:51 PM »
In regards to Dashi-Dorzho Itigilov, where abouts was he burried? Russia is cold so perhaps he froze?

The picture on Wikipaedia looks as though he has decayed a little although he does seem well preserved hence the question above.

The scientists say something about bromine but I'm not much of one for listening to oppositions of vain science anyway. That is not to say that it is always vain.

Ivolginsk, Buryat Republic (Russia, north of the Mongolian border).  It is very likely he has frozen while in the ground, since the average January temperature of the region is in the mid minus 20s celsius.  The body has remained unburied now for nearly 3 years and even with temperature and humidity changes, he has yet to decay..

http://english.pravda.ru/science/19/94/378/15173_immortality.html

The temperature and bromine theories are common when it comes to incorruptibles.  They use the same arguments when it comes to bodies found in extremely high temperature regions and very wet regions (with the discovery of 'bog people').  Though, his body is incredibly intact and does not show the common signs of natural mummification (especially the bleeding when punctured).  Also, the bromine would just keep his muscles and tissue soft, I am not sure how it retard decay, but then again, chemistry/biology has never been my strong suit.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2007, 07:13:52 PM by Friul »
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Offline Didymus

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Re: Oriental Orthodox Signs of Sanctity?
« Reply #11 on: May 09, 2007, 06:58:31 AM »
I was never strong in those areas either. If you find out any more please let me know although I do find it odd that there should be incorruptibles outside of The Church.
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