isaakios
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« on: May 06, 2007, 03:05:38 AM » |
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Hello,
As an EO Christian I was recently reading the lives of some OO saints that made me wonder about whether there were phenomena that the OO Churches belief to be indications of a person's sanctity.
For instance, many EO saints' bodies do not decay (incorruption). Also, many times their bones are fragrant and/or gush myrrh.
Do similar things happen to OO saints?
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Bless the Lord, O my soul, and all that is within me bless His holy Name.
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Anastasios
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« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2007, 01:34:35 PM » |
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Hello,
As an EO Christian I was recently reading the lives of some OO saints that made me wonder about whether there were phenomena that the OO Churches belief to be indications of a person's sanctity.
For instance, many EO saints' bodies do not decay (incorruption). Also, many times their bones are fragrant and/or gush myrrh.
Do similar things happen to OO saints?
Sure, but this also happens in the RC Church, the Moslem religion, and the Hindu religion. It would seem to me that this is not a surefire criterian of sancticty. |
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Check out my personal website with 130+ articles: www.anastasioshudson.comDisclaimer: Past posts reflect stages of my life before my baptism may not be accurate expositions of Orthodox teaching. I served as an Orthodox priest from June 2008 to April 2013, before resigning for personal reasons |
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isaakios
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« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2007, 05:27:09 PM » |
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Well, I'd like to think that signs from God are in some way qualitatively different, even if there are "lying signs and wonders" too. I was looking for specific examples.
As for RCism, I have heard of their "incorruptibles" but they cover them in wax and from what someone once told me, the lack of decay is not exactly "fragrant".
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Bless the Lord, O my soul, and all that is within me bless His holy Name.
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Entscheidungsproblem
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« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2007, 06:40:43 PM » |
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As for RCism, I have heard of their "incorruptibles" but they cover them in wax and from what someone once told me, the lack of decay is not exactly "fragrant".
Some Roman Catholic Incorruptibles have wax masks created to cover over discolourations or possible desiccation of the facial skin (i.e.: Bernadette of Lourdes) and many stories of the 'Odour of Sanctity' can be found (some after the body is exhumed, some for days after death, some from wounds [i.e.: stigmata]) |
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Isaac
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« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2007, 06:53:55 PM » |
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Interesting. The wax mask just has no eastern analogue... it seems deceptive, almost.
But what about OO saints? Are there similar manifestations?
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Salpy
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« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2007, 08:42:09 PM » |
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I seem to recall hearing of a Coptic saint whose body was found a while back, and it had not deteriorated. I cannot remember the name of the saint, however.
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Entscheidungsproblem
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« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2007, 11:49:26 PM » |
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St. Bishoy (Pishoy)'s body is incorruptible I believe, and he is venerated by only the Oriental Orthodox Churches.
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« Last Edit: May 06, 2007, 11:50:57 PM by Friul »
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As a result of a thousand million years of evolution, the universe is becoming conscious of itself, able to understand something of its past history and its possible future.
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Didymus
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« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2007, 12:14:33 AM » |
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Hopefully somebody more knowledgable about this topic will respond but I believe it was St. Bishoy who used to put his hand outside his coffin and shake the hands of people on his annual feast day until recently when an atheist shook his hand and the saint refused to let go of him. The poor atheist created somewhat of a scene and after that the monks decided to cover the whole in the side of the saint's coffin so that no more vistitors would be frightened.
I can tell you that numerous saints have been seen walking on the walls of St. Anthony's Monastry in Egypt. The army fires at them sometimes, not that it's any use.
I have not heard of incoruptibles outside of the Christian Faith.
Could somebody please provide some examples if these do indeed exist?
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Entscheidungsproblem
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« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2007, 12:22:40 AM » |
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I have not heard of incoruptibles outside of the Christian Faith.
Could somebody please provide some examples if these do indeed exist?
Dashi-Dorzho Itigilov is the only one I know off the top of my head. He was a Buddhist. Sorry to venture off topic from the original post. |
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As a result of a thousand million years of evolution, the universe is becoming conscious of itself, able to understand something of its past history and its possible future.
-- Sir Julian Sorell Huxley FRS |
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Didymus
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« Reply #9 on: May 08, 2007, 06:08:24 AM » |
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In regards to Dashi-Dorzho Itigilov, where abouts was he burried? Russia is cold so perhaps he froze?
The picture on Wikipaedia looks as though he has decayed a little although he does seem well preserved hence the question above.
The scientists say something about bromine but I'm not much of one for listening to oppositions of vain science anyway. That is not to say that it is always vain.
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...because I was not with you when the Lord came aforetime.
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Entscheidungsproblem
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« Reply #10 on: May 08, 2007, 07:07:51 PM » |
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In regards to Dashi-Dorzho Itigilov, where abouts was he burried? Russia is cold so perhaps he froze?
The picture on Wikipaedia looks as though he has decayed a little although he does seem well preserved hence the question above.
The scientists say something about bromine but I'm not much of one for listening to oppositions of vain science anyway. That is not to say that it is always vain.
Ivolginsk, Buryat Republic (Russia, north of the Mongolian border). It is very likely he has frozen while in the ground, since the average January temperature of the region is in the mid minus 20s celsius. The body has remained unburied now for nearly 3 years and even with temperature and humidity changes, he has yet to decay.. http://english.pravda.ru/science/19/94/378/15173_immortality.htmlThe temperature and bromine theories are common when it comes to incorruptibles. They use the same arguments when it comes to bodies found in extremely high temperature regions and very wet regions (with the discovery of 'bog people'). Though, his body is incredibly intact and does not show the common signs of natural mummification (especially the bleeding when punctured). Also, the bromine would just keep his muscles and tissue soft, I am not sure how it retard decay, but then again, chemistry/biology has never been my strong suit. |
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« Last Edit: May 08, 2007, 07:13:52 PM by Friul »
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As a result of a thousand million years of evolution, the universe is becoming conscious of itself, able to understand something of its past history and its possible future.
-- Sir Julian Sorell Huxley FRS |
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Didymus
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« Reply #11 on: May 09, 2007, 06:58:31 AM » |
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I was never strong in those areas either. If you find out any more please let me know although I do find it odd that there should be incorruptibles outside of The Church.
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...because I was not with you when the Lord came aforetime.
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