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Author Topic: Standing During Pascha Liturgy  (Read 3361 times) Average Rating: 0
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bergschlawiner
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« on: April 13, 2007, 08:52:27 PM »

 Wink Watching various people in church on Pascha standing for up to 3-plus hours on a hardwood floor, wearing dress shoes and spiked heels prompts me to share this with others - I wear my heavy hiking/treking boots and very comfortable with no foot aches and pains or whatever.  Try it next time ans see! Wink
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« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2007, 09:49:57 PM »

I have an assortment of Birkenstocks for the same purpose.  However, since we pulled up the carpet in church and replaced it with wood floors, even that doesn't help.  I don't know how all those Orthodox in the old countries could stand for hours on hard stone floors. 
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« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2007, 10:20:55 PM »

I'm actually quite glad we have pews. I don't think I could stand in the Hagia Sofia for 4 hours. Especially while balancing a burning candle at 2am.
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« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2007, 10:53:53 PM »

Wink Watching various people in church on Pascha standing for up to 3-plus hours on a hardwood floor, wearing dress shoes and spiked heels prompts me to share this with others - I wear my heavy hiking/treking boots and very comfortable with no foot aches and pains or whatever.  Try it next time ans see! Wink
Foot pains?  That's not what bothered me toward the end of the Paschal Liturgy.  For me, it was my lower back that hurt like ****--my choir director said the same thing about his back.  I couldn't even bend over after the service!  OUCH!!!  (I even wore a pair of comfortable business-suit shoes with arch supporting insoles because of my slightly flat feet.)
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« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2007, 12:27:11 AM »

Foot pains?  That's not what bothered me toward the end of the Paschal Liturgy.  For me, it was my lower back that hurt like ****--my choir director said the same thing about his back.  I couldn't even bend over after the service!  OUCH!!!  (I even wore a pair of comfortable business-suit shoes with arch supporting insoles because of my slightly flat feet.)

Ditto, the next morning . . .er, afternoon, I felt as though I should be walking on all fours my back was so sour.

However, a good pair of shoes are worth their amount in gold for Orthodox services.  I have one pair of suede shoes (except the suede is all worn off and they now look like cowboy boots) and they feel wonderful.  I actually was able to get my mother fly into town this year and come to some of the Pascha services.  The first thing she remarked was "Why are you wearing such ugly shoes!"  Because, they're the only pair I've found that fit before.  I'll give em up once they fall apart, or am buried in them . . ..  hopefully neither will be soon. Smiley
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« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2007, 12:33:18 AM »

I don't know how all those Orthodox in the old countries could stand for hours on hard stone floors. 

Its called ultra pietism = the belief that whatever pain you are experiencing now is worth whatever you've done in the past.  In fact, if this is all the pain you're gona recieve for past transgressions...you got off easy.   Wink Grin
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« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2007, 06:08:15 AM »

Its called ultra pietism = the belief that whatever pain you are experiencing now is worth whatever you've done in the past.  In fact, if this is all the pain you're gona recieve for past transgressions...you got off easy.   Wink Grin
Actually, I always called it "Fear of the babas beating you with a cane and not looking manly enough to everyone else in church (including the 12 yo girl) if you even dare to look at a bench during the 4 hour service."
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« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2007, 10:01:46 AM »

Just curious?  When did the practice of wearing shoes in church start?  I know Ethiopians and Eritrians still take thier shoes off before going into a church, and Copts always take them off before going for Communion, and most do once they're in the church, I wonder when we started being ok with taking shoes in the church, and when others started being ok wearing them throughout?

I've noticed that when I'm in the Sanctuary standing is easy, but if I'm in the Nave it's hard... then I noticed the Sanctuary has plush carpeting with a thick under pad, and the Nave has commercial style carpeting without under pad... doesn't seem fair  Smiley
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« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2007, 12:54:14 PM »

Just curious?  When did the practice of wearing shoes in church start? 

Maybe its because the farther north you go the colder it gets and we all know that the churches in the Old Country were not heated at all.  Don't think being barefoot would be advisable!  In fact, I have seen some old historical pictures with male children wearing woolen hats and gloves in churches.  Uh,oh - not to start a thread on males covering their heads in church!
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« Reply #9 on: April 14, 2007, 01:14:27 PM »

I was barefoot during my baptism....and it was the most comfortable I've ever been in Church.  Cheesy
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« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2007, 02:17:21 PM »

I was barefoot during my baptism....and it was the most comfortable I've ever been in Church.  Cheesy
I should hope you were barefoot for your baptism!  LOL!  Cheesy
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« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2007, 04:36:47 PM »

Oh boo hoo, 4 hours! Wink

Try 6! That's how long Pascha is at my church!  Shocked
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« Reply #12 on: April 14, 2007, 05:10:33 PM »

Oh boo hoo, 4 hours! Wink

Try 6! That's how long Pascha is at my church!  Shocked
I agree...people need to quit their whining!
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« Reply #13 on: April 14, 2007, 05:17:56 PM »

Oh boo hoo, 4 hours! Wink

Try 6! That's how long Pascha is at my church!  Shocked

How so?  How were your services structured/performed?
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« Reply #14 on: April 14, 2007, 05:34:16 PM »

How so?  How were your services structured/performed?
I guess if a parish was to schedule the Vesperal Liturgy of Holy Saturday, a 4-hour service if one includes a few baptisms and chrismations, for 7 p.m.; then, if the parish was to proceed immediately from the end of this Liturgy to the Nocturnes, Rush, Matins, and Divine Liturgy of Pascha, I suppose this could all add up to about 6 or more hours straight.
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« Reply #15 on: April 14, 2007, 05:51:54 PM »

Pascha at St Markella's Cathedral:

1) Holy Saturday morning the Vesperal DL of St Basil from 9 am to 12 pm.

2) Pascha: 1030 pm: Nocturns and all the pre-Matins stuff, 12: the rush service and Paschal Matins, 130 am: Divine Liturgy starts, and ends a little after 3:30 am. Total time in Church: 5 hours.

We have chairs there. A bit untraditional especially for a traditionalist Church, but in this case I think economy is good as we get lots of visitors and having no seating might cut down on people visiting and participating, so I'll take the chairs over alienating people, and I am not complaining about having a chance to sit a little.
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« Reply #16 on: April 14, 2007, 06:47:26 PM »

I'm having trouble fathoming how Nocturn + Matins can take 3 hrs.

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« Reply #17 on: April 14, 2007, 06:49:19 PM »

Actually, I always called it "Fear of the babas beating you with a cane and not looking manly enough to everyone else in church (including the 12 yo girl) if you even dare to look at a bench during the 4 hour service."

this is by far the greatest thing i've ever heard!!!  I was laughing on the ground for 10 minutes!!!!!!! Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

I particularly love the "baba" reference and looking at the bench.  Its so true.... Grin Grin   Wink Wink

Here at the school we went for 5 hours.  

10:30 p.m. until 12:00 a.m.  Then the procession and Gospel.  

Then we went back inside and did the rest of the service and started Liturgy at 1:30 a.m. and went until around 3:30 but they made us cut stuff the whole time, otherwise we DEFINATELY would have gone for another hour.  

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« Reply #18 on: April 14, 2007, 07:33:44 PM »

I'm having trouble fathoming how Nocturn + Matins can take 3 hrs.

Oh, it can. Quite easily. Just check out some of the argon settings in Kypseli. A minimum of 5 minutes for most hymns after the Synaxarion.

And one can't forget the reading of the Patriarchal and/or Archiepiscopal Paschal encyclicals (usually before the light). Then, during the Divine Liturgy itself, there's the Paschal homily of St. John Chrysostom -- in the original and translation -- and in parishes where a goodly amount stay after the light, communion can take anywhere from 30 to 45 minutes. (Not as bad as Palm Sunday, where several parishes I've been to take over an hour just for communion -- and that with a deacon!)
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« Reply #19 on: April 15, 2007, 12:54:59 PM »

5 hours wouldn't be bad if it wasn't...boring, for lack of a better word. I feel more drawn into the service when everything is sung or chanted, not just read in a monotone.
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« Reply #20 on: April 15, 2007, 01:17:03 PM »

5 hours wouldn't be bad if it wasn't...boring, for lack of a better word. I feel more drawn into the service when everything is sung or chanted, not just read in a monotone.
An abuse of the 1st degree!
Orthodox services are meant to be chanted/sung not read in monotone.  This is why sticheri, canons, etc have "Tones" assigned to them.
This is especially true on Pascha, where, at least according to the Russian tradition, the Typikon requires even the Hours to be sung.
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« Reply #21 on: April 15, 2007, 02:18:48 PM »

Oh boo hoo, 4 hours! Wink

Try 6! That's how long Pascha is at my church!  Shocked

lol, it's a good thing I didn't know how much shorter EO services are before I joined the Coptic Church!

Palm Sunday - 5 hr + 3 hr for the eve the night before
Mon - Wed - 2 hr + 2.5 hr for the eves
Thurs - 5 hr + 2.5 hr for eve
Great Friday - 8 hr + 3.5 hr for eve
Bright Saturday - 7 hr
Resurrection Sunday - 5.5 hr

And my church is considered severely abbreviated compared to the other churches in the area which can be 50% longer!  I used to be able to do it but I think I'm too old now at 25 Smiley
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« Reply #22 on: April 15, 2007, 04:05:15 PM »

5 hours wouldn't be bad if it wasn't...boring, for lack of a better word. I feel more drawn into the service when everything is sung or chanted, not just read in a monotone.

Do they read things in monotone in your Church?  If you want I will send you an mp3 of the hymn of Kassiane as done by our chanter at St Markella's, which takes 15 minutes. It's quite something to hear. You can PM me the email you'd like me to send it to if you are interested.

What really makes it lively for us at St Markella's is when the Christos Anesti is sung and they start setting off fireworks and rockets and ringing the bells repeatedly while everyone greets one another. It's quite an exciting thing to see.
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« Reply #23 on: April 15, 2007, 05:40:29 PM »

Yeah, I could do church if it was like what you mentioned. But all that happens is someone will chant the first verse, then read. Our priest has a wonderful singing voice, but because we have no deacon, official chanter, or other, it's mostly read by old ladies.

I've PMed you; I'd love to hear the chant.
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« Reply #24 on: April 16, 2007, 12:45:14 AM »

Yeah, I could do church if it was like what you mentioned. But all that happens is someone will chant the first verse, then read. Our priest has a wonderful singing voice, but because we have no deacon, official chanter, or other, it's mostly read by old ladies.

I've PMed you; I'd love to hear the chant.

Why not become the official chanter? 

Why not beg your priest to flex some muscles and go out there and chant.  Most of the priests here at the seminary chant and we have the best chanter in the Archdiocese (and arguably in the world) right here on campus...but they still butt in and do their own thing, just cuz they love to chant. 

Eh...just a thought.   Smiley
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« Reply #25 on: April 16, 2007, 10:37:10 PM »

You know you're Orthodox when you walk out of church from a 2 hour service and scratch your head wondering why it was so short.
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