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Psalti Boy
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« on: April 03, 2007, 08:46:47 PM »

Is the Holy Byzantine Catholic Orthodox Church in Communion with the Greek Orthodox Church?

PB
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« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2007, 08:51:47 PM »

Is the Holy Byzantine Catholic Orthodox Church in Communion with the Greek Orthodox Church?

PB

I've never heard of the Holy Byzantine Catholic Orthodox Church, in that the Byzantine Catholics under the Pope (ie not part of the Orthodox Church) don't include Orthodox in their name, or at least not that I've ever seen.  Parishes which refer to themselves as Byzantine Catholic or Eastern Catholic are generally under the Pope and not part of Orthodoxy.
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Anastasios
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« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2007, 09:00:20 PM »

I've never heard of the Holy Byzantine Catholic Orthodox Church, in that the Byzantine Catholics under the Pope (ie not part of the Orthodox Church) don't include Orthodox in their name, or at least not that I've ever seen.  Parishes which refer to themselves as Byzantine Catholic or Eastern Catholic are generally under the Pope and not part of Orthodoxy.

You probably found a vagante website (a fake church claiming to be Orthodox or Catholic).
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Psalti Boy
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« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2007, 09:20:10 PM »

This the web site that I found.  It looks legit.

http://www.byzantinecatholicchurch.org/

PB
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Anastasios
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« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2007, 10:36:28 PM »

This the web site that I found.  It looks legit.

http://www.byzantinecatholicchurch.org/

PB

This has all the signs of a vagante jurisdiction. Here are the telltale signs:

1. Church name is followed by "inc."
2. Mixing of vestments between Eastern and Western liturgical traditions
3. "Incardination" event--this term is not used by Orthodox
4. Numerous spelling mistakes on website
5. Bishop is using title Mar and is not Syriac or Indian (he's using Oriental Orthodox titles, Byzantine headress, and RC stole in one pic!)
6. Statements like, "We are dedicated to the practice of a Catholic, Orthodox and Reform faith, where all are welcome" means they probably admit active homosexuals and are trying to appeal to all three Christian traditions instead of living one that is handed down to them.
7. They have an exarchate in Africa that is using a Western Rite when they call themselves Byzantine Rite.
8. They have Aftimios Ofiesh as a saint; he was a bishop who threw off his monastic vows and married a 15 year old girl in 1933 and was deposed by the Orthodox Church. He then started his own Church and made many questionable bishops.
9. They hand out their own "doctorate of divinity" = degree mill
10. They have ember days on their Byzantine Rite calendar.

All this and more shows they are quite false, unrecognized by Catholics and Orthodox alike; probably very small, and doctrinally errant.

Anastasios
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dantxny
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« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2007, 10:37:00 PM »

That's a vagante group

A good rule of thumb is that any site that doesn't list other mainstream groups, mentions Bp Oftimos, and has INC. in the name is vagantre.  This one is all three.  Another way that you can tell is their 'seminary' makes no mention of acceditation (possesed or planned).
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« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2007, 11:07:22 PM »

Thank you all for your insight.

I wish you all a blessed Pascha.

PB
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lubeltri
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« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2007, 01:40:28 AM »

This has all the signs of a vagante jurisdiction. Here are the telltale signs:

1. Church name is followed by "inc."
2. Mixing of vestments between Eastern and Western liturgical traditions
3. "Incardination" event--this term is not used by Orthodox
4. Numerous spelling mistakes on website
5. Bishop is using title Mar and is not Syriac or Indian (he's using Oriental Orthodox titles, Byzantine headress, and RC stole in one pic!)
6. Statements like, "We are dedicated to the practice of a Catholic, Orthodox and Reform faith, where all are welcome" means they probably admit active homosexuals and are trying to appeal to all three Christian traditions instead of living one that is handed down to them.
7. They have an exarchate in Africa that is using a Western Rite when they call themselves Byzantine Rite.
8. They have Aftimios Ofiesh as a saint; he was a bishop who threw off his monastic vows and married a 15 year old girl in 1933 and was deposed by the Orthodox Church. He then started his own Church and made many questionable bishops.
9. They hand out their own "doctorate of divinity" = degree mill
10. They have ember days on their Byzantine Rite calendar.

All this and more shows they are quite false, unrecognized by Catholics and Orthodox alike; probably very small, and doctrinally errant.

Anastasios

Nice summary.
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Kreator
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« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2007, 04:54:40 AM »



    Those guys are frauds.
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Elisha
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« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2007, 11:56:21 AM »


    Those guys are frauds.

...and they're certainly not the first either....why Anastasios posted his "list" to help you identify such groups.
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