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Poll
Question: Should one go to confession before taking communion if he or she has committed the sin of fornication or adultry?
Yes - 46 (93.9%)
No - 3 (6.1%)
Total Voters: 49

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Author Topic: Revised poll on fornication/adultry  (Read 2456 times) Average Rating: 0
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Bono Vox
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« on: March 26, 2007, 03:45:06 AM »

Here is a revised poll on the issue of fornication and adultry in regards to partaking of Holy Communion. In the previous poll some had an issue with the term "mortal sin", so here is a new one.
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« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2007, 03:59:04 AM »

I think this is a really difficult question and I doubt that there's really any hard and fast rule. I don't think there's any formal list of sins which a person is required to confess of before partaking of communion and in most cases confession and communion are two separate sacraments in their own right. As such therefore a person would definitely be required to confess their sin and what is important is that a person approach communion in a humble, repentant and sincere attitude. In most cases it seems that a person should not deprive themselves of Holy Communion unless prevented from participation by either their bishop or priest.
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« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2007, 04:07:21 AM »

Falafel,

I don't know of any priest or bishop who would officially agree with you. I don't know of any saint who would agree with you either. I would encourage you to read Elder Cleopa of Romania. He says that there are sins like fornication or adultry where you don't need a priest to tell you to stay away from communion. Common sense tells you that in committing such a serious sin one should stay away from communion unless they go to confession. I agree with the Holy Elder.
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Troparion - Tone 1:
O Sebastian, spurning the assemblies of the wicked,You gathered the wise martyrs Who with you cast down the enemy; And standing worthily before the throne of God, You gladden those who cry to you:Glory to him who has strengthened you! Glory to him who has granted you a crown!
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« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2007, 04:24:38 AM »

Christ says that whoever looks at a woman to lust after her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

If that is the case I suppose you would probably be expected to confess before every single communion.
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« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2007, 05:14:20 AM »

I expect to confess lustful thoughts every time one goes to confession; however, there are different consequences if one thinks about it and acts if out. For instance, one may think about harming or killing someone; however, that doesn't necessarily require someone to go to confession before taking communion (although it would be a good idea); however, if one actually killed someone, it would be absolutley necessary to go to confession before communion. In fact, a person would probably be required to do much pentance before communing if someone actually murdered a person.
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O Sebastian, spurning the assemblies of the wicked,You gathered the wise martyrs Who with you cast down the enemy; And standing worthily before the throne of God, You gladden those who cry to you:Glory to him who has strengthened you! Glory to him who has granted you a crown!
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« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2007, 06:28:18 AM »

Sorry, I can't vote. You misspelled "adultery". Cheesy
Apart from which, you haven't included the only option I could have voted for:
"Its none of my business."
« Last Edit: March 26, 2007, 06:35:38 AM by ozgeorge » Logged

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« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2007, 11:02:33 AM »

I think random thoughts of sexual temptation are different from the lustful thoughts of which Jesus spoke. I think lusting after someone is indulging those thoughts, entertaining them, playing them out willfully in your mind.

I think the safe thing to do is go to confession before communion after every act of fornication or adultery. They are what we Catholics call sins of "grave matter." Mortal sins? In many cases, yes. It depends---for a sin of grave matter to be mortal, it must be committed with full knowledge and deliberate and full consent. I don't think anyone has the ability to weigh their own culpability for any grave sins they've committed with any confidence, so the cautious thing to do (and one must always be cautious when it comes to the Body and Blood) would be to go to confession before communion.

I think those caught up in the mire of sexual sin should go to confession frequently. They need that extra medicine.
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« Reply #7 on: March 26, 2007, 01:24:04 PM »

I share with many others here that the issue is not black or white.  If he/she gets the chance to confess, then he/she should go for it.  But if confession is hard at the moment, and he/she has a repentant and humble heart, I don't see why he/she shouldn't take the Eucharist.

God bless.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2007, 01:24:46 PM by minasoliman » Logged

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« Reply #8 on: March 26, 2007, 02:44:54 PM »

I must confess I'm not getting why there is a discussion. Of course one should. Nobody asked whether one must.
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« Reply #9 on: March 26, 2007, 03:13:10 PM »

Quote
I must confess I'm not getting why there is a discussion. Of course one should. Nobody asked whether one must.

Same here brother! Some of these people that have doubts should seriously go talk to a priest about the matter. Any good priest would most definitely express similar concerns.
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« Reply #10 on: March 26, 2007, 03:33:52 PM »

For those who don't think that it is necessary to go to confession before taking communion, I would encourage you to go to your priest and ask point blank "is it ok to recieve communion if one has committed fornication or adultry without going to confession?". I garuntee you they would not say yes. Try it and see!
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O Sebastian, spurning the assemblies of the wicked,You gathered the wise martyrs Who with you cast down the enemy; And standing worthily before the throne of God, You gladden those who cry to you:Glory to him who has strengthened you! Glory to him who has granted you a crown!
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« Reply #11 on: March 26, 2007, 04:55:48 PM »

Bagpipe/Nacho,
I feel that this new poll pigeon-holes the respondent into answering how you want them to answer.  (Btw, I did vote 'yes' on this poll.)

Yes, we believe fornication is bad and serious.  Yes, we believe one should confess often.  Yes, the general morality level of man Orthodox regarding this sin has deteriorated significantly, but at the same time, we think you are focusing on sexual topics in an unhealthy manner.
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Bono Vox
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« Reply #12 on: March 26, 2007, 06:49:31 PM »

Quote
Bagpipe/Nacho,
I feel that this new poll pigeon-holes the respondent into answering how you want them to answer.  (Btw, I did vote 'yes' on this poll.)

Yes, we believe fornication is bad and serious.  Yes, we believe one should confess often.  Yes, the general morality level of man Orthodox regarding this sin has deteriorated significantly, but at the same time, we think you are focusing on sexual topics in an unhealthy manner.

First of all, are you using the royal we?? Secondly, I disagree with your analysis, we are not focousing on sexual topics in an unhealthy manner, but rather in a balanced manner. If you had read my posts, you would understand what my understanding and opinions are and why I rephrased the poll. I will quickly summarise it for you.

We are all sinners that need healing from the sickness of sin. We all have evil in our hearts that affect ourselves and everyone else. A person has no right to judge another person. Only God is the ultimate judge of man. Through the power of the Holy Spirit, in co operating with God, we are to crush our egos and through repentance and the Holy Mysteries try to achieve Theosis. Love also covers a multitude of sin. I do not think that I am better than anyone else, and I believe Nacho would probably say the same. We must all approach the Holy Chalice with humility and repentance. 

With that all being said, it is not a sin, nor is it judging to observe the problem of sexual immorality in the church. It would be like saying it is unhealthy to point out the corruption and scandal within the OCA. Are we to bury our heads in the sand and not acknowledge there is a problem. It is a simple fact that there are a lot of people in the church in this particular day and age that openly live lives of immorality and unrepentance. Moreover, quite often clergy turn a blind eye to this for one reason or another (probably because they just simply don't want to deal with it). For those who are sorry for their sin and have fallen, and are repenting and trying to stop this lifestyle, I genuinly hope that they recieve healing and victory over their sin. I truly do. My problem is with those who don't care and blatantly live an immoral lifestyle for all to see. This is a serious contemporary problem within the Orthodox church today, and it is valid to point it out. I believe that this is also an appropriate forum to do so.

I don't know if you are a cradle Orthodox or a convert like myself, but my background before becoming Orthodox took this sin serious, and expected Christians to behave in a Holy Manner, much like the Holy Elders teach. I have said nothing out of line with what the Bible, Holy Tradition, The Saints and Holy Elders teach. In the past, this behavior would have been unacceptable in the church.

Another reason it is a concern to me is because I have two children. They are little but my wife and I are raising them with Christian values. As they get older, I don't want them to see that it is alright to live a sexually immoral lifestyle; that it is no big deal. If they grow up seeing this behavior in the Church, they are going to think that it is alright. I want the church to back up the values we teach our kids. This is how the church used to be and still is in many parts of the world.

Moreover, what kind of a message does this send to those outside the church whether Christian or not?? I have seen people get turned off to the Holy Orthodox faith because of witnessing rampant immorality amongst a great number of Orthodox. I even saw it before I became Orthodox, and it was a concern to me back then.

Now, I rephrased the poll because the first time I made the poll, I used the word "Mortal Sin". This ruffled the feathers of a few and the point I was trying to make got skewed under the termenology, so to get an idea of what people on the board thought about it, I rephrased the same thing I meant in another way. It is not a trick, it is a simple question. It is yes or no, and anyone can post their opinions after voting. I also wanted to see if the extent of peoples laxness on the issue was the same on the internet as I have seen in general over the years.

If I have come off judgemental or prideful in any way for the sake of Christ please forgive me. That is not what I am trying to convey in my posting.  Like I said earlier, I do not think I am better than anyone else, nor have I said that. I do think that this is a serious issue that must be dealt with.

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Troparion - Tone 1:
O Sebastian, spurning the assemblies of the wicked,You gathered the wise martyrs Who with you cast down the enemy; And standing worthily before the throne of God, You gladden those who cry to you:Glory to him who has strengthened you! Glory to him who has granted you a crown!
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« Reply #13 on: March 26, 2007, 07:50:56 PM »

First of all, are you using the royal we??
Yes.

It is a simple fact that there are a lot of people in the church in this particular day and age that openly live lives of immorality and unrepentance. Moreover, quite often clergy turn a blind eye to this for one reason or another (probably because they just simply don't want to deal with it).
Maybe to you, maybe they are not turning a blind eye.  It is job to worry about yourself and not others (besides your kids).

I don't know if you are a cradle Orthodox or a convert like myself, but my background before becoming Orthodox took this sin serious, and expected Christians to behave in a Holy Manner, much like the Holy Elders teach. I have said nothing out of line with what the Bible, Holy Tradition, The Saints and Holy Elders teach. In the past, this behavior would have been unacceptable in the church.
Convert...but 20 years ago before I was a teenager.

If I have come off judgemental or prideful in any way for the sake of Christ please forgive me. That is not what I am trying to convey in my posting.  Like I said earlier, I do not think I am better than anyone else, nor have I said that. I do think that this is a serious issue that must be dealt with.
Yup, that is how it appears to many of us.
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« Reply #14 on: March 26, 2007, 11:03:16 PM »

I read Bagpiper's response and found it very balanced. If a priest, monastic, or any church elder for that matter were to read it, I think they would be in full agreement. I don't think you can say we are judging either because we are discussing this on this site, making *general* observations about a real problem in the church. I have never judged anyone personally that I know may be struggling with this sin and I would be sinning against the Holy Spirit if I did such a thing. I pray for, and try to encourage these people in the faith as much as possible. I have someone close to me that is struggling with this right now, I have done nothing but encourage him in the faith and speak words of life to him. All we are doing is taking the position that the Church has always taken, I don't see what the big deal is and it really is common sense if you think about it. 
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« Reply #15 on: June 11, 2010, 05:42:46 AM »

You "should" go to confession as regularly as your priest allows without overburdening on him.
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« Reply #16 on: June 22, 2010, 05:59:09 AM »

You should confess whenever you feel like it. If you feel as if a burden is upon you, then it is time to confess your problems to the priest.

Never receive the Holy Eucharist without first confessing!
The Holy Elders of the Orthodox Church were very strict when it came to this. One should only receive the Eucharist when he has been cleaned of his sins. That means that you cannot receive the Holy Communion even if you have said one single lie.
Confess, receive your Canon or ask for one if the priest does not give you one and then fulfill it. While fulfilling it, try as hard as you can not to sin. The priest will tell you how long the Canon should last.

It all depends on your sins. For masturbation you can receive 40 days of Canon in which you must eat only dry foods. If  you fail to accomplish this, then you could get a 1 year stop from Communion.
For adultery you can be stopped from receiving the Holy Eucharist for even 15 years! Sex outside the marriage can get a 7 years stop.

These are very serious sins which are not easily forgiven. It is not something you can play with. I mean what, you vow that  you will be loyal to your wife in front of God and then disrespect that? Marriage is a union that cannot be broken. You may think a divorce can shatter the bonds that have been forged through the power invested in the priest, but you are wrong.

I repeat, never attend the Holy Communion if you have not Confessed. The Elders also teach us that it is a good idea not to eat or drink anything that day (when you take the Holy Communion). Fast at least 3 days before and after and 3 days after make sure you never spit (including when you are brushing your teeth). This may seem ridiculous, but the Elders did not think so.

Maybe I will find time to translate what Elder Cleopa once said about Communion, Confession and how serious it should be taken.

Godspeed!
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