Author Topic: Why I am an Episcopalian  (Read 12385 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Ebor

  • Vanyar
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,492
Why I am an Episcopalian
« on: May 06, 2003, 03:13:59 PM »
Our Esteemed Moderator, David, suggested that I put this topic here in "Other".  This is a branch off of a topic in "Free For All" in which I stated that I am an Episcopalian.  I had not done so before due to previous experiences on EO newsgroups and fora, where such things as "Non-Orthodox have nothing to say here.  They should humbly read and learn" or "If you question (EO doctrine) your pride is in the way."  Thus I hoped that my first 100+ postings were taking for what value or lack there of was in my words rather then any possible pre-concieved ideas of what Episcopalians do/say/think etc.

Linus7 asked me why I am an Episcopalian.  Leaving aside a comment in Free For All about why would anyone become Anglican since it's not required by the Crown (there being no Czar or Emperor there's no law to become EO or RC either) I will try to explain.  I don't "write long" so it may be in a couple three short posts.  I also have children and other interruptions that sometimes derail my train of thought if not send it straight off the cliff and into the river.  :)  

First off, I was not a "cradle" Episcopalian except in one way.  The Air Force Base Chaplain who baptised me as an infant was Episcopalian from what my parents remember.  Other then that there was little religion in my family but high moral standards and ethics.  I experienced Missouri Synod Lutheran Sunday School for a while (it was across the street from my house) then Christan Science sunday school (My grandmother who lived with us was nominally C.S. but she made sure her grandchildren were vaccinated and went to the doctor regularly.  Then my parents and some of their friends started a Unitarian group in our city in the West.  We learnt of many different religions and traditions. But there was nothing soul seizing as it were and in teenage I went through the common unbelief/high school attempt at philosophy etc etc.

It was when I started college in a huge Eastern University that I found the Episcopal Church (though by an odd coincidence the local recruiter for that University was an Episcopal priest.)  After 6 weeks of being a number in a crowd, I wandered into the small stone Church that had been surrounded by the expanding dormitories.  When I went back a week later, they rememberd my name!  This was a big thing.  

Here comes Real Life.  I will continue later, and it please you.

Ebor
« Last Edit: May 16, 2003, 05:14:10 PM by Ebor »
"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis

The Katana of Reasoned Discussion

For some a world view is more like a neighborhood watch.

Offline Brigid of Kildare

  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 280
Re:Why I am an Episcopalian
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2003, 03:37:23 PM »
Ebor,

I look forward to the continuation of your story, hope part 2 is posted soon!

Brigid
Bríd Naomhtha, Mhuire na nGaeil, Guí Orainn

Offline Linus7

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,780
Re:Why I am an Episcopalian
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2003, 07:48:12 PM »
Ebor,

I look forward to the continuation of your story, hope part 2 is posted soon!

Brigid

Ditto.

Good start. ;D
The first condition of salvation is to keep the norm of the true faith and in no way to deviate from the established doctrine of the Fathers.
- Pope St. Hormisdas

Offline David

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,952
  • Retired GM
    • Homepage
Re:Why I am an Episcopalian
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2003, 09:43:26 PM »
Ebor,

Bravo for sharing part of your story on our(and I mean our as us and you, as you are a valuable member of this) forum.  In addition to many other things it shows that you care enough about us to open up personal details of your life, and I thank you for that.  Continue when you are ready.  :)

"When looking at faults, use a mirror, not a telescope."
-Yazid Ibrahim

Offline javamama

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 55
Re:Why I am an Episcopalian
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2003, 07:04:28 AM »
God forbid any of us should be so guilty of pride as to believe that "non-Orthodox" have nothing to say to us OR that the Orthodox cannot learn anything of value from the "non-Orthodox".  I myself am a catechumen and (for a few more weeks!) place myself in the "non-Orthodox" category.

Write on, Ebor...when circumstances and children permit!

Offline Ebor

  • Vanyar
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,492
Re:Why I am an Episcopalian
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2003, 02:11:48 PM »
Thank you all for the encouraging words.  I felt a fearful egoist starting a thread to talk about myself. :) I also need to edit my first post for spelling. sigh. After a week of home visits from a stomach virus (It's nice to have children share, but not this particular item. :D ) I will  continue.

In our last episode, I had found the little Episcopal church on my college campus and they remembered my name the next Sunday. The church was also open every day and had noon prayers (Angelus and all) and it was a quiet place, lovely and with the lingering scent of Sunday's incense.  It was a delight to go to for me (Being an introvert and all if any of you go for Myers-Briggs personality tests).  

It also had excellent music and dignified worship.  My father, who came from poor farming stock in Virginia, had via the Air Force gotten an education and had a taste for good music and literature. He also had been stationed in England during WWII and this shaped his interests and, thus, what we children were exposed to. So I grew up with a variety of music (mostly classical and therefore such things as Bach church pieces) and the King James Bible which my father loved for the beauty of the language.  So the Episcopal church I found had familiar and comforting things for an 18 y.o. in the Big City for the first time.

I started on the 28 BCP but also had the "Green Book" which lead to the 79 BCP.  So I learnt both.  We had the 1940 Hymnal and I must confess I prefer that one, but there was also a couple of books of trial hymns so there was a wide range of music.  But since this was 1974-77 it was before the "Contemporay" music bloom.  Thank goodness.

I got confirmed there and stayed there until I ran out of money for college.  I then had to move away from campus and drifted for a couple years, not having a car and being in the uncertain times of What To Do/Where To Go.  Eventually, things worked out that I was able to attend another Episcopal church (again with excellent music, I detect a pattern here.  :) ) and solid dignified liturgy.  

About this time, I started reading C.S. Lewis on someone's recommendation.  Things came together and faith got deeper.  Sorry, I'm not an Instant Believer/Decision maker.  There's times I've been called "Entish", but I can get hasty if I have to.  Around about 28 or so, I prayed that if I was supposed to marry, please let it be a good Christian, if possible Episcopalian, but that was up to God and was able to just get on with things.  By and by,  it happened when I met the person I would eventually marry playing "St. Patrick and Dierdre" (#268 in the '40 Hymnal  ;) ) on the piano at a party.  

Contiued on next rock, sooner then in a week I hope.  Duty calls.

Ebor
« Last Edit: May 16, 2003, 05:12:40 PM by Ebor »
"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis

The Katana of Reasoned Discussion

For some a world view is more like a neighborhood watch.

Offline Linus7

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,780
Re:Why I am an Episcopalian
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2003, 03:46:10 PM »
Ebor -

Thanks for continuing. I am enjoying your account and feel no special urge to be critical of it. In fact, I can relate to the pleasant experiences you describe in your first Episcopal Church. I attended something similar for awhile in California as a young man and also enjoyed it.
The first condition of salvation is to keep the norm of the true faith and in no way to deviate from the established doctrine of the Fathers.
- Pope St. Hormisdas

Offline Ebor

  • Vanyar
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,492
Re:Why I am an Episcopalian
« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2003, 05:19:57 PM »
Ebor -

Thanks for continuing. I am enjoying your account and feel no special urge to be critical of it. In fact, I can relate to the pleasant experiences you describe in your first Episcopal Church. I attended something similar for awhile in California as a young man and also enjoyed it.

Umm, "urge to be critical"?  I'm glad that you don't feel that... Unless it for poor writing style or unclarity.  :)

It was more then just pleasant experiences; it introduced me to deep Faith in Christ Jesus.  The peace led to being still and prayer.  

I'm just grabbing a couple minutes before dinner.  To Be Continued....

Ebor
"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis

The Katana of Reasoned Discussion

For some a world view is more like a neighborhood watch.

Offline The young fogey

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 3,159
  • Milhouse van Houten in a Raymond Chandler novel
    • A conservative blog for peace
  • Faith: Catholic
  • Jurisdiction: Archdiocese of Philadelphia, Roman Rite
Re:Why I am an Episcopalian
« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2003, 05:28:50 PM »
Ebor, I'm enjoying your story too and am not criticizing you. By any chance, have you read my Anglo-Catholicism page? It started off as pretty critical but I've tried to balance it out since.
"You always were a historically illiterate jerk, John." - OicwR doyen Stuart Koehl

Russian icons and Byzantine prayers at home; Ukrainian Catholic parish once a month. Traditional Latin Mass most other Sundays.

High-church libertarian
Blog

Offline Linus7

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,780
Re:Why I am an Episcopalian
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2003, 10:20:08 PM »
I know I should wait, but the installments of this saga are coming very slowly.

The question I am dying to ask is why one would remain an Anglican these days.

Sorry, couldn't control myself.
The first condition of salvation is to keep the norm of the true faith and in no way to deviate from the established doctrine of the Fathers.
- Pope St. Hormisdas

Offline The young fogey

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 3,159
  • Milhouse van Houten in a Raymond Chandler novel
    • A conservative blog for peace
  • Faith: Catholic
  • Jurisdiction: Archdiocese of Philadelphia, Roman Rite
Re:Why I am an Episcopalian
« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2003, 10:58:31 PM »
Quote
The question I am dying to ask is why one would remain an Anglican these days.

In no way do I presume to speak for Ebor and I look forward to the next chapter she writes here, but if I may, these might be some of the honorable and perfectly understandable reasons one would: one was born into it/family ties; the orthodoxy and good fellowship of one's local congregation, while ironically all the local RC churches spit on that orthodoxy and its externals, and while Eastern Orthodoxy seems forbidding because of its foreignness and the anti-Westernness of some EOs; the 'quiet place, lovely and with the lingering scent of Sunday's incense... a delight to go to' with 'excellent music and ... solid, dignified worship, Bach church pieces... and the King James Bible ... the beauty of the language... familiar and comforting ... the 28 BCP ...the 1940 Hymnal'.

One might dismiss a lot of these as romanticism or as merely temporal/human concerns but they matter a lot to real people, and one need not tell Eastern Orthodox how important culture, including ethnic culture, is to one's religious life (and the Episcopal Church is extremely ethnic - it's English!).
« Last Edit: May 22, 2003, 11:24:53 PM by Serge »
"You always were a historically illiterate jerk, John." - OicwR doyen Stuart Koehl

Russian icons and Byzantine prayers at home; Ukrainian Catholic parish once a month. Traditional Latin Mass most other Sundays.

High-church libertarian
Blog

Offline Linus7

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,780
Re:Why I am an Episcopalian
« Reply #11 on: May 20, 2003, 12:27:26 PM »
Serge -

Those are all valid reasons, I guess. In fact, I enjoyed all of those things at the Episcopal Church I attended many years ago. I enjoyed many of the same things at the Lutheran Church and had the ethnic identity thing going, too (Pennsylvania German descent).

What would trouble me would be the things that are going on in the Anglican communion beyond the local congregation.
The first condition of salvation is to keep the norm of the true faith and in no way to deviate from the established doctrine of the Fathers.
- Pope St. Hormisdas

Offline Ebor

  • Vanyar
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,492
Re:Why I am an Episcopalian
« Reply #12 on: May 22, 2003, 11:06:35 PM »
Ebor, I'm enjoying your story too and am not criticizing you. By any chance, have you read my Anglo-Catholicism page? It started off as pretty critical but I've tried to balance it out since.

Yes, I visited that part of your site once.  I found it, as you say, critical.  I haven't been back to it recently.

Ebor
"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis

The Katana of Reasoned Discussion

For some a world view is more like a neighborhood watch.

Offline Ebor

  • Vanyar
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,492
Re:Why I am an Episcopalian
« Reply #13 on: May 22, 2003, 11:13:21 PM »
I know I should wait, but the installments of this saga are coming very slowly.

The question I am dying to ask is why one would remain an Anglican these days.

Sorry, couldn't control myself.

I am gratified that you want to read more and I apologize to you for the installment plan.  At least it's not as back as when Charles Dickens' installments had to cross the Atlantic.  ;D (I'm not sure what's going on here.  I've tried to write the name of the author of "Oliver Twist" in the above paragraph and it's coming out as what you read.  I really can spell his name, but it's showing up ans looneyens. ??? )

I try to figure out what I am going to write carefully so as to get things as clear and orderly as possible.  And to not write carelessly or in a way that might be misconstrued.  

Also, when I get to the why I remain an Episcopalian, I am concerned that what I write will be taken as personal criticism or offensive, so I want to be very careful and clear.  But I'll have to state my experiences of RC and EO and why I cannot go to either at this time.  

Ebor
« Last Edit: May 23, 2003, 12:31:25 AM by Ebor »
"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis

The Katana of Reasoned Discussion

For some a world view is more like a neighborhood watch.

Offline Ebor

  • Vanyar
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,492
Re:Why I am an Episcopalian
« Reply #14 on: May 23, 2003, 12:17:06 AM »
Part the Third: Considering the hour, I hope this will be coherent.

As I wrote last time, I met and eventually married another Episcopalian.  It has been a great support.  We have three children all raised Episcopalians and we all go to church together.  So any change to another church is not something that could or would happen lightly or easily or quickly.  (And then there's my Entish streak.)

I read a lot including: History and Religion and Science Fiction.  After working my way through C.S.Lewis I read Dorothy Sayers, Peter Kreeft (RC) and headed into some of the more weighty tomes.  I tried Tillich once and found it darned near unreadable.  I have some Anthony Coniaris (EO) and "The Orthodox Church" by Ware among other works. I also have histories of Christianity including works by Pelikan, so I am some what familiar with the subject.

Serge and Linus have led into some more of my tale.  As I wrote, I was not born into the Episcopal church.

Ethnically, I'm what my mother's mother called a "Heinz" as in "57 varieties".  :) The strongest strain is Scottish, but since the ancestors came over to this country over 200 years ago, it mostly manifests as blue eyes and a fondness for oatmeal, mountains and bagpipe music. ;D The German, English and a tiny bit of Cherokee have all blended together with it.  I know some French and a little Japanese (very little), I listen to a wide variety of musics from all over the world, I'll eat cuisine from just about anywhere, but the "eth" is pretty generic. I feel no tug for "Old Country" ways.  So, as Serge remarked, the EO churchs are "foreign".

(Here is where I'm afraid that some people will be upset or take what I write as criticism of their beliefs and churchs.  I apologize in advance.  It is not intended as such, but is only about my experiences and beliefs.)

I have visited RC churches, mostly for weddings and baptisms and the like.  I have also attended a variety of ROCOR, OCA, Ukrainian Orthodox and Antiochian (both Byzantine and Western Rite) services and a Serbian wedding.  

I confess that I am used to worshipping in English, with occasional latin and the "Kyrie" in Greek. So on the RC side, the Mass in Latin is not a Deep and Meaningful Experience and on the EO side, Liturgy in Slavonic or Greek or Arabic or Ukrainian is in languages I don't understand.  The Antiochian services were all or mostly English, it is true, but puzzling at times.

As Serge noticed I wrote of "Dignified worship" in the Episcopal Church.  "Decently and in Order" is an Anglican phrase.  It was as I learnt it in college, that God is due respectful worship, doing our best and serving him with gladness but not slapdash and paying attention.  At the RC services I've been to, in what I presume are the "Novus Ordo" as it was all in English and in the last 20 years, they have seemed at times careless and unplanned. The priest's chair has been the focus in some, rather then the altar.  The congregation doesn't sing even with the "song leader" and the keyboard or guitars. (Taize music with guitar is one thing, for it is worshipful. But much "Contemporary" Christian music I do not care for and particularly not in the Eucharist service.  "Happy Clappy" just isn't my style.)  Yes, I've read "Why Catholics Can't Sing" and a former RC in my parish told me that it's all true.  There was no solemnity at the Eucharist.  

I"ve got to sleep now.  It's late.  

Ebor
"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis

The Katana of Reasoned Discussion

For some a world view is more like a neighborhood watch.

Offline Elisha

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,908
Re:Why I am an Episcopalian
« Reply #15 on: May 23, 2003, 01:03:50 PM »
Ebor,
I know you're not finished yet, but based on this latest installment, you should visit more OCA parishes - they usually are in all English (occasional smatterings of Russian and/or Greek) and usually have types of Russian music that wouldn't sound "foreign" to you.

Offline Linus7

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,780
Re:Why I am an Episcopalian
« Reply #16 on: May 26, 2003, 10:25:26 AM »
ACROD (American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Diocese) services are in English, as well.
The first condition of salvation is to keep the norm of the true faith and in no way to deviate from the established doctrine of the Fathers.
- Pope St. Hormisdas

Hypo-Ortho

  • Guest
Re:Why I am an Episcopalian
« Reply #17 on: May 26, 2003, 02:05:58 PM »
Ebor,
I know you're not finished yet, but based on this latest installment, you should visit more OCA parishes - they usually are in all English (occasional smatterings of Russian and/or Greek) and usually have types of Russian music that wouldn't sound "foreign" to you.

Er, just a "minor" point: That should read "occasional smatterings of CHURCH SLAVONIC."  Modern Russian is usually not used liturgically.

Hypo-Ortho

Offline Elisha

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,908
Re:Why I am an Episcopalian
« Reply #18 on: May 26, 2003, 02:30:51 PM »

Er, just a "minor" point: That should read "occasional smatterings of CHURCH SLAVONIC."  Modern Russian is usually not used liturgically.

Hypo-Ortho

Yeah, whatever.  It's all Grek to me.  ;)

Offline Ebor

  • Vanyar
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,492
Re:Why I am an Episcopalian
« Reply #19 on: May 28, 2003, 05:44:29 PM »
Ebor,
I know you're not finished yet, but based on this latest installment, you should visit more OCA parishes - they usually are in all English (occasional smatterings of Russian and/or Greek) and usually have types of Russian music that wouldn't sound "foreign" to you.

Thank you for the suggestion, Elisha.  Russian music doesn't sound foreign to me.  I must admit that Byzantine chant triggers my musical place/time in history function. "Middle Eastern, monophonic, pre-1000, etc etc" analysis.

It's the Byzantine liturgy that is 'foreign'.  


Ebor
"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis

The Katana of Reasoned Discussion

For some a world view is more like a neighborhood watch.

Offline Ebor

  • Vanyar
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,492
Re:Why I am an Episcopalian
« Reply #20 on: May 28, 2003, 05:56:52 PM »
ACROD (American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Diocese) services are in English, as well.

The Antiochian services I've been to have almost totally in English also.  It's not just the language.  I'm working on the next installment, but I'm concerned that people will either get take my writing as personal criticism or not understand why I have trouble worshipping in an EO church.  We are not all alike.


Ebor
"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis

The Katana of Reasoned Discussion

For some a world view is more like a neighborhood watch.

Offline David

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,952
  • Retired GM
    • Homepage
Re:Why I am an Episcopalian
« Reply #21 on: May 28, 2003, 06:42:32 PM »
Ebor,

Take your time.  Some of us will probably have questions or criticisms, but I don't think anyone here means to offend.  I hope all is well with you and I look forward to the next part of your story!

In Christ,

David
"When looking at faults, use a mirror, not a telescope."
-Yazid Ibrahim

Offline JoeZollars

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,278
  • Pray for me an unworthy sinner
    • The Joe's Big Wide World
Re:Why I am an Episcopalian
« Reply #22 on: May 28, 2003, 10:48:34 PM »
Ebor,

I understand very well what you are saying about having trouble worshipping in a Byzantine setting.  Its more than just foreign, its almost impossible to feel a part of it (Gosh I sound like a liberal) to us diehard westerners and to a person used to neat, tidy,orderly services as one would find in many Anglican Churches, Eastern style worship with its bows, prostrations, and moving around seems VERY disorderly.   Actually my first gut reaction was disgust at what was going on, but thankfully I changed my outlook.

Joe Zollars
These posts no longer represent my beliefs and I in no way endorse their contents.

Offline Ebor

  • Vanyar
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,492
Re:Why I am an Episcopalian
« Reply #23 on: May 30, 2003, 03:58:17 PM »
Ebor,

I understand very well what you are saying about having trouble worshipping in a Byzantine setting.  Its more than just foreign, its almost impossible to feel a part of it (Gosh I sound like a liberal) to us diehard westerners and to a person used to neat, tidy,orderly services as one would find in many Anglican Churches, Eastern style worship with its bows, prostrations, and moving around seems VERY disorderly.   Actually my first gut reaction was disgust at what was going on, but thankfully I changed my outlook.

Joe Zollars

Well, in the Anglican services I go to, we have bowing/genuflecting, and kneeling and processions and such like. So it isn't movement, per se that is alienating.  But there is the unfamiliarity of what is going on.  Also, we were once invited to a ROCOR service with the warning from the inviter (a member of that parish) that it would be like "a bus station" with people going in and out, moving about venerating icons in the middle of the service and generally seeming to not pay attention.  This was very strange to me.


Ebor
"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis

The Katana of Reasoned Discussion

For some a world view is more like a neighborhood watch.

Offline JoeZollars

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,278
  • Pray for me an unworthy sinner
    • The Joe's Big Wide World
Re:Why I am an Episcopalian
« Reply #24 on: May 30, 2003, 04:26:03 PM »
In the immemoriable Latin Mass (ok, ok old habits die hard), we had the same litugical motions, except mostly kneeling.  We of course genuflected in the creed at the "ET INCARNATUS EST"  and at the end of the Last Gospel as well.  

It was not movement per se, but the people moving around, and they weren't standing in nice, neat orderly rows, and of course the foreigness that initially turned me off.  But thank God I was able to look past these externals and see the Truth and the absolute necesity of my conversion.

Joe Zollars
These posts no longer represent my beliefs and I in no way endorse their contents.

Offline Elisha

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,908
Re:Why I am an Episcopalian
« Reply #25 on: May 30, 2003, 04:27:21 PM »
Now, from my viewpoint, I think pews get in the way of worship - we're not an audience to an entertainer/lecturer.  On the otherside, I think many Orthodox are unobservant (I've noticed in my own perish especially as well as others), often lighting candles and venerating icons at inappropriate times - like during a reading or procession.

Hypo-Ortho

  • Guest
Re:Why I am an Episcopalian
« Reply #26 on: May 30, 2003, 04:38:10 PM »
Now, from my viewpoint, I think pews get in the way of worship - we're not an audience to an entertainer/lecturer.  On the otherside, I think many Orthodox are unobservant (I've noticed in my own perish especially as well as others), often lighting candles and venerating icons at inappropriate times - like during a reading or procession.

I've noticed the same in my parish, times like when Father is censing the Temple before Liturgy starts--they get not only in the way of worship, but in Father's way (literally!) as well.  During the reading of the Gospel, the giving of homily/sermon or during the Cherubikon also seem inappropriate times for one's doing one's "private devotions," if you will.  I think that there needs to be instruction of the laity by a short word from the ambon or in the weekly bulletin to correct these practices.  Some may not even be aware that their actions are impolite and not in the spirit of communal worship at these times.

Hypo-Ortho

Offline Ebor

  • Vanyar
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,492
Re:Why I am an Episcopalian
« Reply #27 on: May 30, 2003, 05:23:37 PM »
It was not movement per se, but the people moving around, and they weren't standing in nice, neat orderly rows, and of course the foreigness that initially turned me off.  But thank God I was able to look past these externals and see the Truth and the absolute necesity of my conversion.

Joe Zollars

Well, I think that at the moment I do not see that the Truth comes only with a Byzantine Liturgy.

Ebor
"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis

The Katana of Reasoned Discussion

For some a world view is more like a neighborhood watch.

Offline JoeZollars

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,278
  • Pray for me an unworthy sinner
    • The Joe's Big Wide World
Re:Why I am an Episcopalian
« Reply #28 on: May 30, 2003, 05:28:05 PM »
of course not, there is Western Rites too.  ;D

Joe Zollars
These posts no longer represent my beliefs and I in no way endorse their contents.

Offline Ebor

  • Vanyar
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,492
Re:Why I am an Episcopalian
« Reply #29 on: May 30, 2003, 05:29:46 PM »
Now, from my viewpoint, I think pews get in the way of worship - we're not an audience to an entertainer/lecturer.  On the otherside, I think many Orthodox are unobservant (I've noticed in my own perish especially as well as others), often lighting candles and venerating icons at inappropriate times - like during a reading or procession.

I think that there is not a binary state of pews-people are audience/no pews-people are really worshipping.  That there is something between rigidly controlled watchers and total freedom of motion.  Paying attention is not just being an audience.

Ebor
"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis

The Katana of Reasoned Discussion

For some a world view is more like a neighborhood watch.

Offline Ebor

  • Vanyar
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,492
Re:Why I am an Episcopalian
« Reply #30 on: May 30, 2003, 05:37:29 PM »
of course not, there is Western Rites too.  ;D

Joe Zollars

One would hope so.  :)  

But along with the "Western Rite" thread, I've read things in books and other on-line places that give the impression of "West Bad, East Good", such that ONLY the Byzantine Rite is the way to worship.  I was once told on line a number of years ago that Byzantine Chant was handed down by the angels and thus the only proper church music (the writer was Greek Orthodox), as Russian Chant was tainted by "western" influences.  Of course this would make any "Western" chant/hymns/anthems totally beyond the pale.  

Ebor
"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis

The Katana of Reasoned Discussion

For some a world view is more like a neighborhood watch.

Offline Elisha

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,908
Re:Why I am an Episcopalian
« Reply #31 on: May 30, 2003, 08:08:07 PM »
of course not, there is Western Rites too.  ;D

Joe Zollars

One would hope so.  :)  

But along with the "Western Rite" thread, I've read things in books and other on-line places that give the impression of "West Bad, East Good", such that ONLY the Byzantine Rite is the way to worship.  I was once told on line a number of years ago that Byzantine Chant was handed down by the angels and thus the only proper church music (the writer was Greek Orthodox), as Russian Chant was tainted by "western" influences.  Of course this would make any "Western" chant/hymns/anthems totally beyond the pale.  

Ebor

Yeah, our choir director spent a little time in Greece at a women's monastery.  She was told (in English) by a nun there, that she needs to learn Greek since that was all that was spoken in heaven.  To those types, just smile, nod your head and then let it go out the other ear.

Offline Mor Ephrem

  • A highly skilled and trained Freudian feminist slut
  • Section Moderator
  • Hypatos
  • *****
  • Posts: 34,725
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
  • Faith: Mercenary Freudianism
  • Jurisdiction: Texas Feminist Coptic
Re:Why I am an Episcopalian
« Reply #32 on: May 30, 2003, 10:16:09 PM »
But along with the "Western Rite" thread, I've read things in books and other on-line places that give the impression of "West Bad, East Good", such that ONLY the Byzantine Rite is the way to worship.  

What nonsense!  Anyone who's anyone knows that the Syrian rite is more beautiful than the Byzantine rite.    :P

Offline Nigula Qian Zishi

  • Administrator Emeritus, Retired Deacon, Inactive Poster, Active Orthodox Christian, Father, and Husband
  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,837
  • 我美丽的妻子和我。
    • Orthodox Ecclesiology and The World
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Metropolis of Denver
Re:Why I am an Episcopalian
« Reply #33 on: May 30, 2003, 11:45:38 PM »
But remember the poll here? It decided that God spoke Slavonic! ;-) :-p
在基督
尼古拉
前执事
的博客

Offline Mor Ephrem

  • A highly skilled and trained Freudian feminist slut
  • Section Moderator
  • Hypatos
  • *****
  • Posts: 34,725
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
  • Faith: Mercenary Freudianism
  • Jurisdiction: Texas Feminist Coptic
Re:Why I am an Episcopalian
« Reply #34 on: May 30, 2003, 11:52:07 PM »
Yes, our posters have a good sense of humour, don't they?   :P

Offline Ebor

  • Vanyar
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,492
Re:Why I am an Episcopalian
« Reply #35 on: June 03, 2003, 03:51:01 PM »
But along with the "Western Rite" thread, I've read things in books and other on-line places that give the impression of "West Bad, East Good", such that ONLY the Byzantine Rite is the way to worship.  

What nonsense!  Anyone who's anyone knows that the Syrian rite is more beautiful than the Byzantine rite.    :P

I have not yet had the pleasure of attending an Syrian rite.  But I will remember your recommendation if/when "St. Thomas Indian Orthodox Church" is ever built on the lot a couple miles south of me that has that name on a sign.

Ebor
"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis

The Katana of Reasoned Discussion

For some a world view is more like a neighborhood watch.

Offline Ebor

  • Vanyar
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,492
Re:Why I am an Episcopalian
« Reply #36 on: June 03, 2003, 03:51:50 PM »
But remember the poll here? It decided that God spoke Slavonic! ;-) :-p

As I'm sure He speaks all other languages as well.
 :)

Ebor
"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis

The Katana of Reasoned Discussion

For some a world view is more like a neighborhood watch.

Offline Ebor

  • Vanyar
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,492
Re:Why I am an Episcopalian
« Reply #37 on: June 03, 2003, 03:57:19 PM »
of course not, there is Western Rites too.  ;D

Joe Zollars

One would hope so.  :)  

But along with the "Western Rite" thread, I've read things in books and other on-line places that give the impression of "West Bad, East Good", such that ONLY the Byzantine Rite is the way to worship.  I was once told on line a number of years ago that Byzantine Chant was handed down by the angels and thus the only proper church music (the writer was Greek Orthodox), as Russian Chant was tainted by "western" influences.  Of course this would make any "Western" chant/hymns/anthems totally beyond the pale.  

Ebor

Yeah, our choir director spent a little time in Greece at a women's monastery.  She was told (in English) by a nun there, that she needs to learn Greek since that was all that was spoken in heaven.  To those types, just smile, nod your head and then let it go out the other ear.

Of course.  :)    I have also come across a person or two of Greek ancestry who maintained that all languages are derived from Greek (Shades of Mr. Portokalos in My Big Fat Greek Wedding with his derivation of "kimono".  Great Googaly-Moogaly! :o)

I have not yet met any OCA or other EO who maintained that *only* Russian or Syrian or etc etc  music is proper for church.

Ebor
« Last Edit: June 03, 2003, 03:58:22 PM by Ebor »
"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis

The Katana of Reasoned Discussion

For some a world view is more like a neighborhood watch.

Offline Ebor

  • Vanyar
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,492
Re:Why I am an Episcopalian
« Reply #38 on: June 03, 2003, 05:00:34 PM »
The above leads into part of my next section: Music

I sing.  My whole family sings, except for the youngest, who at 4 likes music but favours such pieces as "The wheels on the bus" and the "Blues Clues" songs.  When visiting an RC parish we will read the service leaflet, get out the hymnal/song book and start singing where indicated.  This has usually been followed by the realization that we are an island of sound in an ocean of silence except for the instrumentalists and Song leader, miked usually.  Many of the songs were modern "choruses" and contemporary songs.  If they thought that that sort of music would get the people singing, it hasn't worked out well.  Also, I don't care for much of this sort.  On the other hand, I am quite clear that my personal likes/dislikes are not the Rule of The Universe.  If such songs help some people worship God, wonderful.  For me, I find many of them focused on the singer, or trying to speak for God or sounding like advertisement music or TV theme songs.

At our parish people sing the hymns.  They sing the service music.  We have  a choir that I'm a member of.  Years ago, the then priest (who was not particularly vocally gifted but he liked music) told us that he was taught in seminary that everyone can make a joyful noise of some kind, even if it's a shout.  By singing together, and saying certain prayers together the congregation is *participating* in the worship.  They are not just an audience.

We had a guest preacher once, an RC priest.  He was sitting in the front row during before the service and I could see him from my place in the choir (we're in the south transept near the front).  As the opening hymn started I saw a look of great surprise and then pleasure as most of the people behinded him started singing.  The first thing he said was what a pleasure it was to hear the congregation singing.

Visiting an EO parish the music mostly the choir and the priest.  The people there also do not sing and I have read discussions on lists for/against the parishoners singing too.  

Along with Byzantine Chant being the only music for worship, I was told on-line long ago that Western Church music only fed the ego, that the hearer thought of the composer or performer not the worship of God.  Whereas, in the EO liturgy the music focused everyone only on worship and God.  Again a stroke of "West Bad/East Good"   And also not true for all times and all places.  I hear a certain piece of Russian church music, it may register as "ah, Bortniansky. (sp?)". But when singing "Humbly I adore Thee/Verity unseen..." as we did during communion last Sunday I am not thinking of the composer, but worshipping.  

So there is a poser:  In the RC church there is a lack of congregation singing and good music focused on God.  In the EO there is little for the congregation to sing. And no place for Western Hymnody.  

I'm sorry, I don't think that Godly music is only found in the Middle East and Slavic traditions.  A cradle OCA member once told me that he hoped that one day there would be setting for the liturgy based on American music, but that he figured it would take centuries.

Off to a family get together.

Yours respectfully,

Ebor

"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis

The Katana of Reasoned Discussion

For some a world view is more like a neighborhood watch.

Offline Oblio

  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 454
  • The Pointless One !
    • St. Innocent Orthodox Church
Re:Why I am an Episcopalian
« Reply #39 on: June 03, 2003, 05:19:42 PM »
Quote
At our parish people sing the hymns.  They sing the service music.  We have  a choir that I'm a member of.  Years ago, the then priest (who was not particularly vocally gifted but he liked music) told us that he was taught in seminary that everyone can make a joyful noise of some kind, even if it's a shout.  By singing together, and saying certain prayers together the congregation is *participating* in the worship.  They are not just an audience.

Precisely as it is at our OCA mission.  We chose the arrangements so that all could sing, and fill in with the choir without being too cacaphonius.

Offline Mor Ephrem

  • A highly skilled and trained Freudian feminist slut
  • Section Moderator
  • Hypatos
  • *****
  • Posts: 34,725
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
  • Faith: Mercenary Freudianism
  • Jurisdiction: Texas Feminist Coptic
Re:Why I am an Episcopalian
« Reply #40 on: June 03, 2003, 05:58:34 PM »
I have not yet had the pleasure of attending an Syrian rite.  But I will remember your recommendation if/when "St. Thomas Indian Orthodox Church" is ever built on the lot a couple miles south of me that has that name on a sign.


Dear Ebor,

I wish I had one of our churches that close to me.  You're lucky.  I hope you get to visit soon after they are done with construction.

Offline Jonathan

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 956
Re:Why I am an Episcopalian
« Reply #41 on: June 03, 2003, 10:20:51 PM »
I can certainly understand your frustration, but I just wanted to mention that it's not like that throughout Orthodoxy.  The British Orthodox Church uses the same old English hymns as the (traditional parts of the) Anglican Church does for their Communion hymns.  And while the tunes are definatly not Western for the Liturgy at my church (I'm Coptic Orthodox), the Communion hymns are actually mixed between Arabic songs rendered in English, and "native hymns", at Christmas especially all the hymns are from old Anglican hymnals.  The transition from the Eastern hymns to the Western ones tends to take visitors by surprise, but it works.  We're the only Coptic church around here that uses Western Communion hymns, and apparently there was some criticism, but oh well.  Not as many people as would be ideal sing, but a lot do, especially at people's favorite parts of the Liturgy.

Offline Linus7

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,780
Re:Why I am an Episcopalian
« Reply #42 on: June 04, 2003, 12:16:19 PM »
At our ACROD mission parish we all sing, not merely the choir and the priest.
The first condition of salvation is to keep the norm of the true faith and in no way to deviate from the established doctrine of the Fathers.
- Pope St. Hormisdas

Offline Ebor

  • Vanyar
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,492
Re:Why I am an Episcopalian
« Reply #43 on: June 04, 2003, 05:17:56 PM »
I'm glad to read that some congregations sing and that some find worth in Western Christian music.   :)  Linus, is your mission that you attend mostly converts from churches with a tradition of the people singing?  (btw, OT: did you see the links I posted about wine grapes in England?  Just curious.)  

It was in the Ukrainian, OCA and ROCOR parishes that I visited, which had large numbers of older people who had emigrated to the US that the people didn't sing.  The Antiochian parish, in which almost everyone was a convert did have congregational singing.

Ebor
"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis

The Katana of Reasoned Discussion

For some a world view is more like a neighborhood watch.

Offline Linus7

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,780
Re:Why I am an Episcopalian
« Reply #44 on: June 05, 2003, 10:22:57 AM »
Ebor -

My parish is a mix of converts and immigrants. The immigrants include Russians, Bulgarians, Romanians, Serbians, Greeks, and Palestinian Arabs (there is also a lady from Moldova and one from Kazahkstan). There are converts who were Roman Catholics (the majority of converts, I think) and converts who were Protestants.

I think congregational singing is a Carpatho-Russian tradition.

Yes, I saw those links and found them interesting and surprising. I know I am hardheaded, but I tend to think that if there was viniculture in early medieval England it was probably pretty anemic - a little like trying to grow Southern Magnolias in Pennsylvania: it can be done, but the results are disappointing.

Nevertheless, even if there was a thriving native wine trade in Anglo-Saxon and Norman England that was crushed with the advent of the Little Ice Age, was that the reason for limiting the laity to communion in one kind?

One would have to show a direct connection.

Did communion in one kind begin in the North?

Did anyone ever explain or justify it by refering to a wine shortage?

Why would a northern limitation become universal in the RCC, even in areas with an abundance of wine?

And why would the conservation of wine be applied only to lay people, if wine was in such short supply? Shouldn't clerics have participated in the conservation effort, too?
The first condition of salvation is to keep the norm of the true faith and in no way to deviate from the established doctrine of the Fathers.
- Pope St. Hormisdas

Offline Ebor

  • Vanyar
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,492
Re:Why I am an Episcopalian
« Reply #45 on: June 15, 2003, 07:43:49 PM »
My apologies.

I had intended to write more this weekend, but I have acquired a "Corneal Abrasion" on my right eyeball.  I.e. somehow I scratched it.  Do no do this if you can help it.  It hurts like billy-o and with the eye covered with a patch I can barely focus on the screen to type this.  

I hope that it will heal quickly.  It could be anywhere from a couple of days to 2 weeks, from info I've gotten.

Yours

Ebor
"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis

The Katana of Reasoned Discussion

For some a world view is more like a neighborhood watch.

Offline David

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,952
  • Retired GM
    • Homepage
Re:Why I am an Episcopalian
« Reply #46 on: June 15, 2003, 10:32:37 PM »
Ebor (M),

Take time to heal.  We will all keep you in our prayers and wait patiently until you can devote your attention to the telling of your story.  I hope all is well with you.  

David
"When looking at faults, use a mirror, not a telescope."
-Yazid Ibrahim

Offline Ebor

  • Vanyar
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,492
Re:Why I am an Episcopalian
« Reply #47 on: June 18, 2003, 10:17:23 AM »
Thank you, David.

I've been to the family doctor and the eye doctor since I wrote last.  The scrape is righi over the pupil so, along with hurting, it's where one looks out.  It's like looking through a slightly frosted window or one that has some grease on it.   It's pretty distracting to try and use both eyes.  

The prognosis is good. I'm using the eye drops 'religiously'.  With care corneas heal in a few days.  I just am impatient, I guess.  I can't read much or use the computer or drive...etc.  Just finding a moving cursor with one eye is hard.

Ebor
"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis

The Katana of Reasoned Discussion

For some a world view is more like a neighborhood watch.

Offline the slave

  • intolerant of intolerance
  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 810
  • Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Re:Why I am an Episcopalian
« Reply #48 on: June 18, 2003, 10:21:50 AM »
Prayers for your recovery Ebor.

These things are not nice and cannot be hurried. Just try and relax and obey orders :D
"Never let anyone try to tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern. The West was fully Orthodox for a thousand years; and her venerable liturgy is far older than any of her heresies."
- St. John Maximovitch

Offline Ebor

  • Vanyar
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,492
Re:Why I am an Episcopalian
« Reply #49 on: June 18, 2003, 10:31:40 AM »
Thank you. :)  I don't think my laughter was totally hollow.  Your good humour and your prayers are a great help.

Ebor

time to stop looking at the computer now, once I find the cursor again.
"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis

The Katana of Reasoned Discussion

For some a world view is more like a neighborhood watch.

Hypo-Ortho

  • Guest
Re:Why I am an Episcopalian
« Reply #50 on: June 18, 2003, 12:30:53 PM »
Thank you. :)  I don't think my laughter was totally hollow.  Your good humour and your prayers are a great help.

Ebor

time to stop looking at the computer now, once I find the cursor again.

You're in my prayers and thoughts for a quick recovery, Ebor.  As someone famous once said, "I can feel your pain."   :P  But in all sincerity, I went through the same thing once, so I can *REALLY* relate.  You'll get through this okay, I know!

Hypo-Ortho

Offline Brigid of Kildare

  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 280
Re:Why I am an Episcopalian
« Reply #51 on: June 18, 2003, 04:17:01 PM »
I want to add my good wishes too Ebor. I scratched the cornea of my left eye some years ago when a piece of the hedge I was cutting fought back and it's not an experience to be recommended. Please get well soon and continue your story,

Brigid

Bríd Naomhtha, Mhuire na nGaeil, Guí Orainn

Offline Fotina02

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 180
Re:Why I am an Episcopalian
« Reply #52 on: June 22, 2003, 03:12:55 AM »
Are you asking the right questions in seeking for the Church?  Or maybe asking and not listening?


Offline Ebor

  • Vanyar
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,492
Re:Why I am an Episcopalian
« Reply #53 on: July 09, 2003, 04:41:02 PM »
Ebor -

Yes, I saw those links and found them interesting and surprising. I know I am hardheaded, but I tend to think that if there was viniculture in early medieval England it was probably pretty anemic - a little like trying to grow Southern Magnolias in Pennsylvania: it can be done, but the results are disappointing.


*shrug* Believe what you like. You asked for some documentation.  This is a theory that I'm working on in spare time and at intervals.  It occurred to me sometime ago and I am looking for primary sources to test my hypothesis. I do not say that it *is* why, only theorizing that it *might* be.  

Quote

And why would the conservation of wine be applied only to lay people, if wine was in such short supply? Shouldn't clerics have participated in the conservation effort, too?

Hypothesizing:  To have Eucharist one needs bread and wine.  Wine is in short supply. Only use a small amount.  If there is a small amount then not many people can partake.  Who then?

Conjecture:  If the priest is conducting the mass and represents Jesus, then he is the one to take the wine.  Also, in many places, when there is a small amount of some food or drink item it is given to the head of a family and/or guest.  

This is a theory.  I mentioned it as possible thoughts.

Ebor
« Last Edit: July 09, 2003, 04:44:26 PM by Ebor »
"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis

The Katana of Reasoned Discussion

For some a world view is more like a neighborhood watch.

Offline Ebor

  • Vanyar
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,492
Re:Why I am an Episcopalian
« Reply #54 on: July 09, 2003, 04:46:41 PM »
Thank all of you for your encouraging words about my scaped cornea.  It seems to be healing nicely.  I have an ointment for it now and another eye doctor check up in a couple of weeks.  It was a bad one and large, but did not puncture the eye.  I can now drive again and don't need the dark glasses much at all.

Ebor
"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis

The Katana of Reasoned Discussion

For some a world view is more like a neighborhood watch.

Offline Ebor

  • Vanyar
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,492
Re:Why I am an Episcopalian
« Reply #55 on: July 09, 2003, 04:49:40 PM »
I have been wondering if I should continue this thread.  I regret not posting for the past weeks, but I couldn't stay on long and write with only one eye.  (It's amazing what you find out binocular vision can do, when you don't have it.)  

Ebor
"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis

The Katana of Reasoned Discussion

For some a world view is more like a neighborhood watch.

Hypo-Ortho

  • Guest
Re:Why I am an Episcopalian
« Reply #56 on: July 09, 2003, 04:58:27 PM »
I have been wondering if I should continue this thread.  I regret not posting for the past weeks, but I couldn't stay on long and write with only one eye.  (It's amazing what you find out binocular vision can do, when you don't have it.)  

Ebor

Ebor, if you can put up with my dyslexia, I'll be more than happy to accomodate your one-eyed posting.   ;)  Please continue this thread.

Hypo-Ortho

Offline Ebor

  • Vanyar
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,492
Re:Why I am an Episcopalian
« Reply #57 on: July 09, 2003, 05:12:43 PM »
Thanks, Hypo-Ortho.  I appreciate your courtesy.   :)
I fear that eventually something I write will be taken as an attack, no matter how carefully I write since it will disagree with someone else's views.  Sigh.  That has never been my intent. and I suppose sufficient unto the day is the arguments thereof...

Yours.

Eborl
"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis

The Katana of Reasoned Discussion

For some a world view is more like a neighborhood watch.

Offline Mor Ephrem

  • A highly skilled and trained Freudian feminist slut
  • Section Moderator
  • Hypatos
  • *****
  • Posts: 34,725
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
  • Faith: Mercenary Freudianism
  • Jurisdiction: Texas Feminist Coptic
Re:Why I am an Episcopalian
« Reply #58 on: July 09, 2003, 05:32:59 PM »
Ebor, I'm glad to hear your eye is healing well.  When you are ready, I'm sure there are a lot of us who would like to hear you continue with your story.

Offline Elisha

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,908
Re:Why I Am Also An Episcopalian
« Reply #59 on: July 10, 2003, 11:50:26 AM »
What's the big deal about August 2nd?

Offline the slave

  • intolerant of intolerance
  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 810
  • Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Re:Why I Am Also An Episcopalian
« Reply #60 on: July 10, 2003, 11:59:00 AM »
OC Summerfest ??
« Last Edit: July 10, 2003, 11:59:40 AM by the slave »
"Never let anyone try to tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern. The West was fully Orthodox for a thousand years; and her venerable liturgy is far older than any of her heresies."
- St. John Maximovitch

Offline Ebor

  • Vanyar
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,492
Re:Why I Am Also An Episcopalian
« Reply #61 on: July 10, 2003, 11:59:10 AM »
The 2nd of August is the OC.net Summerfest picnic in Maryland and meeting various Forum members in RL/as "Liveware"/ face to face. :)  See the link at the top of the page.

Ebor
"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis

The Katana of Reasoned Discussion

For some a world view is more like a neighborhood watch.

Offline Elisha

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,908
Re:Why I Am Also An Episcopalian
« Reply #62 on: July 10, 2003, 12:25:35 PM »
Thanks.  Since I'm on the west coast, it's not that feasible for me.

Offline Ebor

  • Vanyar
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,492
Re:Why I am an Episcopalian
« Reply #63 on: July 27, 2003, 04:44:45 PM »
Well, I had another eye check yesterday and the surface of the eye has healed up totally.  There's still some swelling, but that's common.  Eyes don't forgive "insults" quickly.  So I still am using hte ointment at night, but the prognosis is good.  So I can go back to posting more here, as much as RL will allow.  Now to finish my next intallment before I post it.

Thanks for all the encouragement and concern.

Ebor
« Last Edit: July 27, 2003, 04:45:27 PM by Ebor »
"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis

The Katana of Reasoned Discussion

For some a world view is more like a neighborhood watch.

Offline the slave

  • intolerant of intolerance
  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 810
  • Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Re:Why I am an Episcopalian
« Reply #64 on: July 27, 2003, 04:55:18 PM »
Hooray :D

Look forward to the next installment - just don't overdo things now.
"Never let anyone try to tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern. The West was fully Orthodox for a thousand years; and her venerable liturgy is far older than any of her heresies."
- St. John Maximovitch

Hypo-Ortho

  • Guest
Re:Why I am an Episcopalian
« Reply #65 on: July 27, 2003, 08:20:40 PM »
So glad to know that you're doing well, Ebor!   :D

Hypo-Ortho

Offline Brigid of Kildare

  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 280
Re:Why I am an Episcopalian
« Reply #66 on: July 28, 2003, 02:05:35 PM »
Great news Ebor, both about your eye and that you will be continuing your story.

Brigid
Bríd Naomhtha, Mhuire na nGaeil, Guí Orainn