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Author Topic: Modern Miracles?  (Read 3759 times) Average Rating: 0
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Didymus
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« on: March 18, 2007, 08:33:18 AM »

I'm interested in learning more about recent (since 1950) miracles in the Oriental Orthodox Churches. Would somebody please post some and also mention which specific Church each miracle is connected to?

I'm interested particularly in any Ethiopian or Armenian miracles considering the situation with the communists in each of these lands. Whether any occured or not whilst communists ruled I would be interested either way.

I am also interested in any which may have occured since the fall of communism in these lands.

The more detailed and descriptive the better but even if you would just like to post short descriptions of some they also would be appreciated.

Thank you indeed for your replies in advance and please pray for me.
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« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2007, 09:53:46 AM »

In the Coptic Church perhaps the greatest ever would have to be the apparition of St Mary in Cairo Egypt over her namesake's church in an area by the name of Zeitun in 1969 over a period of about 2 years before thousands from all over the world--an event documented in both picture and video. Then there's also the many miracles attested to the then patriarch HH Pope Kyrillos VI 1959-1970.

http://www.zeitun-eg.org/
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« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2007, 10:21:25 AM »

Thank you. I have heard of this one and whilst it is also of interest to me, Egypt was not effected by communism.

As such, I would be more interested in learning of Ethiopian or Armenian miracles from about 1950 onwards.

Nonetheless, thank you for mentioning this miracle as I would be a little worried had noone mentioned it.
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« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2007, 05:46:51 PM »

Actually, though Egypt was not affected by communism it was affected by Islam. Apparently there was a controversial law that some were attempting to pass according to Islamic Sharia to the effect that if two people witnessed against a Christian of having converted to Islam then that person would have to remain a Muslim or be placed under the death penalty. Apparently then some Muslims began to mark off the homes of Christians in anticipation of such a law. It is believed that the apparition of St Mary during this time was a great aide to overcoming this problem.
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« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2007, 06:31:15 PM »

The big miracle was surviving Communism.  For the Armenians, the bigger miracle was surviving the Genocide.  The biggest miracle was surviving both Communism and the Genocide, especially when one followed on the heels of the other.

You hear individual stories about people who experienced miracles during this time, but I don't think there is anything officially recognized by the Church.  What is frustrating is that I know there were countless martyrs for the faith during the 20th century and yet the Armenian Church has yet to add any of them to its calendar.  I am among those who would like to see that happen.
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« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2007, 06:43:11 PM »

To shed light on my comment above, I'm linking this article:

http://www.serfes.org/orthodox/memoryof.htm
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« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2007, 12:39:06 AM »

Actually, though Egypt was not affected by communism it was affected by Islam. Apparently there was a controversial law that some were attempting to pass according to Islamic Sharia to the effect that if two people witnessed against a Christian of having converted to Islam then that person would have to remain a Muslim or be placed under the death penalty. Apparently then some Muslims began to mark off the homes of Christians in anticipation of such a law. It is believed that the apparition of St Mary during this time was a great aide to overcoming this problem.

The islamic law was introduced in Egypt since the the islamic invasion in 641 a.d. under Amr Ibn El-3as in the time of khalif Omar Ibn El-Khataab and upheld afterwards until it was replaced by civil laws in the 1850's under Muhamed Ali Basha, the father of modernism in Egypt. The 1923 constitution took it a step further,and the french laws were adopted and the islamic laws became just a source, and not the main source anymore, for the constitution.

This was again reversed in the 1970's by President Saddat and in 1979 President Saddat, the darling of the West, wanted to introduce the full islamic laws as a step to fulfill his dream of exterminating Copts. He promised in 1956 according to the minutes of the islamic convention in Cairo to make the Copts beggers should he come in power.

It is true that the worst application would be the "reddah" laws, in which the testimony of two muslims about a christian becoming muslim and then returning to christianity can lead to the execution of this christian person, the confiscation of his property and the adoption of his minor children by islamic foster family as they will be considered muslims.

Saddat came very close to passing the law in 1979, which led to a violent clash with H.H. Pope Shenouda who opposed this with passion and voiced his objection bluntly. Already having a bad relation with the Nazi President Saddat (he was indeed found of Hitler and adopted the nazi uniform for the military and also the goose march), Pope Shenouda asked the Coptic nation for a three day of lent so that God would have mercy on His people and lift this anticipated death sentence. The Lord indeed listened to our prayers and the islamic laws were never passed at the time. Why this happened is unclear till this day with many prominent egyptian historians speculating about the reason.

The prayers and intercessions of our lady St. Mary will be always with the Church that protected the title Theotokos, but stopping the islamic laws from application was mainly due to the fasting and prayers of H.H. Pope Shenouda and the Coptic Orthodox Church. 

H.H. was to be imprisoned two years later after more opposition to Saddat's dirty tricks and President Saddat felt that he needs a cooperative church leadership that would go along with him for 30 pieces of silver.

Saddat died torn apart in two pieces from the waist, in the day of his glory, 6th of October, by the shots of Khaled El-Islamboli and Hussein Atta Tael, very much like Arius, Herod and any individual who tries to divide the Church.   
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« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2007, 11:00:36 AM »

Thanks for the information.
Islam has certainly been a great weight on the Christians yet it also seems to have led to many great Christian miracles because of their strict religious practices.
I'm familiar with the Armenian massacre by the Turks on April 25th as it's the same day as ANZAC Day here in Australia (when we remember our failed invassion of Turkey under British orders). I see your point about surviving so much. Hasn't the Russian Church recognised thousands (perhaps millions?) of saints from last century? May I please ask if there might be reason for the Armenians to wait?
Also, if anyone knows, I've heard Tsar Nicholas II is now a Russian saint as is his family. I was wondering if the late Ethiopian Emperor might be in a similar category due to the situations surrounding their respective demises?

Back on the main topic though, some more examples would be nice please. Right now it seems to me as though only the Copts have any.
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« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2007, 10:33:08 AM »

Thank you. I have heard of this one and whilst it is also of interest to me, Egypt was not effected by communism.

As such, I would be more interested in learning of Ethiopian or Armenian miracles from about 1950 onwards.

Nonetheless, thank you for mentioning this miracle as I would be a little worried had noone mentioned it.

Egypt was not affected by communism in the Iron Curtain sense.   But Nasser and other goverment officials were communist leaning socialists which did try to promote atheism.   At least for a time.   And Egypt most defitely was a big Soviet client state.
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« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2007, 01:42:48 PM »

Nasser did by no means promote atheism. His start was a coalition with the Islamic Brotherhood that won him the Egyptian street and was instrumental in his rise to power in 1954 and ousting Mohamed Nagueb who was the president from 1952-1954. The revolution could not have succeeded without a high ranking official like Mohamed Naguib. Nasser, Salah Salem, Gamal Salem, Abd EL-Hakim Amer, Saddat (later president although of minimal contribution in the revolution) and the rest of the 13 military officials who led the revolution were all of radical Islamic conviction.

In 1955, the Islamic brotherhood tried to eliminate Nasser by assassinate him and therefore brought a wave of persecution upon them, as Nasser did not hesitate to use all necessary means such as imprisonment and torture to eliminate any voice against him. But his fundamental beliefs did not change nor did he switch his position regarding "islamizing" Egypt. The constitution got changed to a more conforming one with Islamic laws, eliminated Christians from leadership position and began to interfere with church affairs.

What stopped Nasser from further progression of his ideas was the elevation of Monk Mina the hermit to Papacy ...Pope Kyrillos the 6th. Nasser was put in check after his aggression against H.H. in a meeting in which he tried to push H.H. in full disrespect to his position and his hand got paralyzed. The same night, his daughter Mona who suffered from epilepsy, got a prolonged phase of the disease and it was an extreme phase. One of the president aids who knew Pope Kyrillos's sainthood told him to call H.H. . When the president's men arrived at Pope Kyrillos' residence, they found him waiting for them ready. He did the miracle to Mona Abd EL-Nasser and she was cured forever.

This brought a change, out of fear, from Nasser and he did not push further his extreme ideas, yet the president's men did not share the same softening of approach towards Christians. The Islamization of Egypt continued but not from the top, but from bottom up to the top.

As for the socialism of Egypt at the time, it is true that it resembled more the fake communism that was applied in the East, but it was not an ideologically motivated move but rather extension of power and in the same time eliminate the economical power of the Copts who controlled a lot of industries and lands. In the age of tolerance from the Great Mohamed Ali (1805-1854) till 1952, Copts thrived and prospered and dominated the economy. 
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« Reply #10 on: April 02, 2007, 03:32:17 AM »

 

but it was not an ideologically motivated move but rather extension of power and in the same time eliminate the economical power of the Copts who controlled a lot of industries and lands. In the age of tolerance from the Great Mohamed Ali (1805-1854) till 1952, Copts thrived and prospered and dominated the economy. 

Well that does explain some of the drive to keep my church folk down.  It not pure prejudice but left over jealousy.   I'm curious do you think Copts by and large have a better work ethic then their Islamic counterparts?   They do seem to do very well when they come over to the States.

By the way if I understand the Zeitoun miracle that is a kind of a progressive miracle.   If I recall their have been sightings in other places which corresponds to the path of the Holy Family in Egypt.I recall an article that talked about this specifically (which I may be able to dig up from posting on a different board).  On this web site, at the bottom it does mention some of the other apparitions like Edfu, and Assiut.

http://biblia.com/apparitions/zeitun.htm

By the way I've been trying to get more info on I think his name is "Abba Raphael" the Coptic priest who has miracoulous displays of light (At least when photos are taken) during the Eucharist and other sacraments.   Ekistos Annesti has posted pics of his before, but I get error messages when I try to use the search engine to find those old threads/posts.
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« Reply #11 on: April 02, 2007, 09:47:15 PM »

I think the monk you are thinking of is named Abouna Fanous.  EA posted pictures of him here:

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,10363.0.html
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« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2007, 02:51:53 PM »

Ethiopia has many modern miracles.

The Ethiopian empire was not swallowed by the Godless European slave trade which ravaged the African continent. The savagery which fueled the coming of the so-called "Americas" we know today produced the the largest forced migration of human beings in the history of the world. Descendents of these people are all over the world.

Ethiopia also survived the largest, bloodyest land crab in human history known as "The European scramble for Africa".

Ethiopia is today the only country that has NEVER be colonialised by the Europeans or any other non-African nation. This is hard to say since 95% of the "countries" in Africa were not really "countries" prior to the "scarmble" anyway but part of a larger system of governace similar to an empire with provincial Kings of kingdoms with yet Kings over various kings...."kings of Kings". This system of governance remained in Ethiopia (having never been colonialised) until 1974.

Todays African countries are the result of the "scramble". This inckudes the destabilization and poor governance on the continent. Africa is not set up to function like we would expect a European country. The effort to mold the people into so-called "modernization" is yet another scramble to destroy Africa by keeping it destabalized (while the outsiders still benefit from the natural resouces for cheap while nobody is looking due to the confusion). Note that Margret Thatchers son was caught  two yearss ago with his hand in the cookie jar providing the financing and instagation of yet another major coup in Africa. His trial continues without news coverage of course. How many other coups and civil unrest is being fueled by outsiders....many or most is a safe assumption.

Ethiopia was spared the Arab envasion on the African continent and the influx of their religuious ideas known as islam.

Ethiopia at one point was the only vestige of true Christianity on the continent of Africa. Our Orthodox brothers the Copts were in Egypt of course but Egypt was not Christian but islamic as far as the larger population and government are concerned. Ethiopia although having isalmic nations on all sides has never been islamic and still is not today. muslims comprise about 30% today. Ethiopia has always been an Orthodox Christian "country". Orthodoxy was not a small pocket but nation wide. The Orthodox Church ran the country and owned 80% of the land until 1977. This is unique in all Orthodoxy worldwide. The arabic language is not used in the country. Very few Ethiopians speak arabic. Those that do live in trhe muslim towns like Harar or were raised in Sudan, Egypt or other "arabic" countires. Thus Ethiopia still has its "African" heritage and traditions in tact much as they were 3000 years ago.

Ethiopia survived WW2. Many people were killed by the facist italians but they were not successful in taking the country. The italians failed again in Ethiopia just like they did in 1867 when they were vanquished by an Ethiopian army during their invasion from the north at the battle of Adwa.

Ethiopians defeated a  world power bringing it down from its haughty crossed eyed system of segregation and despair as was set for its black population. This world power effectively had to re-write its laws casting a fair balanced sytem of governance called the civil rights act. This was a miracle. No wars, no fighting...just non-violent peaceful action caused a "war" nation America to up root its 400 year old system of denegration and in-civility. Many Ethiopians died but it was a miracle of this age. The civil rights movment waged in America spread all over the world and was an example to all who thirsts for human dignity.

Yes Ethiopians!

(For those who are not aware the term "Ethiopian" is ancient Greek which simply means black person. A human being which has a VERY dark skin color who live at the equater and beyond. To the Greeks this ment any face type, hair type or nation...black skin was the only criterea from the equator down or any person who has descended from these areas or people).

The current "negro" or "black" terms are very modern and are a prevailing proof of Europena domination over Africas past. Most Europeans can not except that all blacks DO NOT look alike. The Greeks more intelligently thought that all blacks look as varied as whites. Some whites have blond hair, curly hair, olive skin, red skin, big noses, little noses etc; however all are still "white". The ancient Greeks saw the variations of the Europeans and applied the same thinking to blacks having varying body, face and hair types but all black or as they stated "Ethiopian".




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« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2007, 03:01:18 PM »

Amen, Fr Deacon!  While living in Washington, DC, I was blessed to live near an Ethiopian Orthodox community.  I learned alot from them.  I found another church a few blocks from a friend's house the other day, in fact, while driving to visit him.

I've always wondered why many Americans of African descent who are serious about a "back to Africa" mentality always seem to embrace Islam instead of Ethiopian Orthodoxy.
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« Reply #14 on: April 16, 2007, 05:44:16 PM »

Amen, Fr Deacon!  While living in Washington, DC, I was blessed to live near an Ethiopian Orthodox community.  I learned alot from them.  I found another church a few blocks from a friend's house the other day, in fact, while driving to visit him.

I've always wondered why many Americans of African descent who are serious about a "back to Africa" mentality always seem to embrace Islam instead of Ethiopian Orthodoxy.

Thank you for your comment.

I was hoping that my point would be understood. Reading it back to myself it sounded a little self rightious.

Our African American brothers and sisters must be prayed for. Most are lost in useless protestantism and other Godless "spiritual" faiths.

There is soem who are now in the Ethiopian Church. I know a Deacon who is an African American.

Their is hope.

I appreciate your insight and concern.
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« Reply #15 on: April 17, 2007, 10:33:33 PM »

Amen, Fr Deacon!  While living in Washington, DC, I was blessed to live near an Ethiopian Orthodox community.  I learned alot from them.  I found another church a few blocks from a friend's house the other day, in fact, while driving to visit him.

I've always wondered why many Americans of African descent who are serious about a "back to Africa" mentality always seem to embrace Islam instead of Ethiopian Orthodoxy.

It's sad really.  Elijah Mohammed lead a deceptive call for all blacks to leave Christianity, the "white man's religion" (and he also called the "white man" the devil) and join the "Nation of Islam," which even Muslims consider a "Kafir's religion."

God bless.
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« Reply #16 on: April 18, 2007, 01:39:10 PM »

It's sad really.  Elijah Mohammed lead a deceptive call for all blacks to leave Christianity, the "white man's religion" (and he also called the "white man" the devil) and join the "Nation of Islam," which even Muslims consider a "Kafir's religion."

God bless.

elijah muhammed was a baprist preacher from his beginnings. Thus he was a protestant preaching a diabolical faith that was neither, protestant, islamic or Christian.

To many American born Ethiopians (African-Americans) Christianity is still a "white mans religion". This was propogated successfully in America since most so-called Christian faiths are really the product of western (European) inventions which are vastly seperated from the true faith of the fathers. These "christians" (I prefer protestant) Europeans were the worlds monsters for a long time going from place to place (in the name of "jesus") bringing "civilization" to the "heathens". These same folk ("christians") were the worlds slave dealers and pirates. They came to what we call America and began a slaughter of the native people and built the "new world' and the America we know today for free using African slaves. All this and more with the "church" out front.

A farse indeed.

This brutal, irresponsible behavior destroyed the justice and love for man which is the seed and root of the true faith forever (it seems) in the hearts of many Africans, African descent and other people of color world wide.

It was (is) very easy to persuade our African people (African Americans) that "Christianity is a white mans religion". It appears obvious.

The Orthodox Church is not the white mans religion. This is the true Church of God. We must work to spread this to the millions of African Americans (Ethiopians).

The Ethiopian Church established a mission in America in 1959 for this purpose. This mission today is all but gone.

The Coptic Church today has more African Americans within its fold than the Ethiopian Church. Which is fine; we are all one Church . I just feel that The Ethiopian should work harder (again) at this effort which does not seem likely in the forseable future.

Most African Americans that are converts in the Ethiopian Church are getting their teachings from the Coptic and Greek. Some are just moving into the Coptic traditon as a result. Again this is fine also. But it hurts that the Ethiopian Church has not been able to "keep" its African American converts. I am happy that those that are finding Orthodoxy are getting the love and care they need from the teachings of the Orthodox fathers like HH Pope Shenouda who has published endlessly on the Orthodox Church in almost every area of concern (IN ENGLISH....Praise God!!!). I pray that God preserves him for many more years. He is liken to the Apostles in our era. His preaching is all over the world (not just to and among Coptics). I pray the All hierarchs in the future will see the importance to teach (universally) on the Holy Church. The world needs to hear from us.....right now!!!

God is watching us.

Are we preaching and teaching to all the world?

Or are we comfortable in our local traditions and keep to ourselves?

The Orthodox Church is Universal, Apostolic, Holy & Orthodox in the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour. It belongs not to the Ethiopians, The Copts, The Greeks, The Amenians, The Bulgarians etc. It belongs to Christ.  Sometimes we forget the obvious.

And the idea of EO and OO is to me the largest evidence on earth that We ORTHODOX (ALL of us) are in trouble with God.

God said "Above ALL things LOVE ONE ANOTHER". That to me inlcudes differences that lead to the EO and OO. If we give each other the true love God commanded us to give each other he would save us from this rent.

It is outright arrogance to think that it is a special blessing in the EO or the OO. It was a lack of humility and love among our fathers not a differnce in doctrine that caused Chalcedon.

God has His blessing in His Church. And His Church can be neither seperated, reformed or divided by any man....and hell shall not prevail against it

God help us.....

 
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« Reply #17 on: April 19, 2007, 12:22:14 AM »

elijah muhammed was a baprist preacher from his beginnings. Thus he was a protestant preaching a diabolical faith that was neither, protestant, islamic or Christian.

To many American born Ethiopians (African-Americans) Christianity is still a "white mans religion". This was propogated successfully in America since most so-called Christian faiths are really the product of western (European) inventions which are vastly seperated from the true faith of the fathers. These "christians" (I prefer protestant) Europeans were the worlds monsters for a long time going from place to place (in the name of "jesus") bringing "civilization" to the "heathens". These same folk ("christians") were the worlds slave dealers and pirates. They came to what we call America and began a slaughter of the native people and built the "new world' and the America we know today for free using African slaves. All this and more with the "church" out front.

A farse indeed.

This brutal, irresponsible behavior destroyed the justice and love for man which is the seed and root of the true faith forever (it seems) in the hearts of many Africans, African descent and other people of color world wide.

It was (is) very easy to persuade our African people (African Americans) that "Christianity is a white mans religion". It appears obvious.

The Orthodox Church is not the white mans religion. This is the true Church of God. We must work to spread this to the millions of African Americans (Ethiopians).

The Ethiopian Church established a mission in America in 1959 for this purpose. This mission today is all but gone.

The Coptic Church today has more African Americans within its fold than the Ethiopian Church. Which is fine; we are all one Church . I just feel that The Ethiopian should work harder (again) at this effort which does not seem likely in the forseable future.

Most African Americans that are converts in the Ethiopian Church are getting their teachings from the Coptic and Greek. Some are just moving into the Coptic traditon as a result. Again this is fine also. But it hurts that the Ethiopian Church has not been able to "keep" its African American converts. I am happy that those that are finding Orthodoxy are getting the love and care they need from the teachings of the Orthodox fathers like HH Pope Shenouda who has published endlessly on the Orthodox Church in almost every area of concern (IN ENGLISH....Praise God!!!). I pray that God preserves him for many more years. He is liken to the Apostles in our era. His preaching is all over the world (not just to and among Coptics). I pray the All hierarchs in the future will see the importance to teach (universally) on the Holy Church. The world needs to hear from us.....right now!!!

God is watching us.

Are we preaching and teaching to all the world?

Or are we comfortable in our local traditions and keep to ourselves?

The Orthodox Church is Universal, Apostolic, Holy & Orthodox in the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour. It belongs not to the Ethiopians, The Copts, The Greeks, The Amenians, The Bulgarians etc. It belongs to Christ.  Sometimes we forget the obvious.

And the idea of EO and OO is to me the largest evidence on earth that We ORTHODOX (ALL of us) are in trouble with God.

God said "Above ALL things LOVE ONE ANOTHER". That to me inlcudes differences that lead to the EO and OO. If we give each other the true love God commanded us to give each other he would save us from this rent.

It is outright arrogance to think that it is a special blessing in the EO or the OO. It was a lack of humility and love among our fathers not a differnce in doctrine that caused Chalcedon.

God has His blessing in His Church. And His Church can be neither seperated, reformed or divided by any man....and hell shall not prevail against it

God help us.....

 


I pray for the day when the OO and EO are united again. My OO friends (Coptic and Ethiopian) are among the most devout and generous Christians I have ever known. The building we purchased for our parish was originally owned by a Coptic Church. When this parish heard an Antiochian community was looking for a home one of the parish counsel members of this Coptic parish wanted to make sure that the next owner of the building would be another Orthodox Church. When we made an offer on their building, they accepted it without any bargaining.
True, generous Christians who want to see the faith spread.
That particular Coptic counsel member I mentioned above has helped to start three Orthodox Churches in the bay area...(two of them were Antiochian!)
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Starlight
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« Reply #18 on: April 21, 2007, 01:02:23 PM »

Fr. Amde,
Thank you very much for excellent observations. It was not self-righteous at all. It was very wise, explanatory and visionary.

I pray for the day when the OO and EO are united again. My OO friends (Coptic and Ethiopian) are among the most devout and generous Christians I have ever known.

Absolutely, Tamara. What kind of a spiritual power would be acheived by the combination of OO and EO.

Orthodoxy needs to have a strong mission among African Americans. May be we reached a time, when we urgently need to consider a certain Pan-Orthodox plan of mission in this direction.

This brutal, irresponsible behavior destroyed the justice and love for man which is the seed and root of the true faith forever (it seems) in the hearts of many Africans, African descent and other people of color world wide.

It was (is) very easy to persuade our African people (African Americans) that "Christianity is a white mans religion". It appears obvious.

The Orthodox Church is not the white mans religion. This is the true Church of God. We must work to spread this to the millions of African Americans (Ethiopians).


Amen.


God help us.....


Amen.
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evergreen32
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« Reply #19 on: May 16, 2007, 12:24:36 PM »

I'm wondering if anyone can verify the following story?

http://clubs.pathfinder.gr/emmaous/651728?read=12&forum=66086
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Pray for the Christians of Iraq and Syria.


« Reply #20 on: May 18, 2007, 11:54:39 PM »

I can't verify the story, but I first heard it from someone at my church a while back.  It was maybe a year ago.
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