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Author Topic: Conversions in Ukraine  (Read 2242 times) Average Rating: 0
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BasilCan
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« on: March 11, 2007, 03:42:55 PM »

Does anyone know how Ukrainian Catholics are received into the Orthodox church in Ukraine? For example, if someone wants to marry a Ukrainian Orthodox, and is Catholic, and wants to become Orthodox, what does the Church do?  Does the Orthodox Church:

1) Baptize them?
2) Chrismate them?
3) Accept them by a profession of faith, recitation of the creed, and confession?
4) Accept them 'as is' without anything special being done?

Does it matter whether the person is Roman Catholic or Ukrainian Catholic?

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« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2007, 07:46:00 PM »



Does it matter whether the person is Roman Catholic or Ukrainian Catholic?

Basil

Um...hope I don't sound too stupid here, but what's the difference?  Are the Ukranian Catholics the Uniates? 

Are you wondering how this situation is handled IN UKRAINE?  or in Orthodoxy in general? 
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« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2007, 08:37:11 PM »

In the Ukraine. How it is handled in Orthodoxy in general is, as we all know, variable depending upon where one lives (or to which jurisdiction one joins).

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« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2007, 09:16:10 PM »

Sorry, can't help you with that question, obviously cuz I have NO connection to the Ukraine. 

If you (or anyone else) could answer my other question, i'd really appreciate it.  I'd love to know if there is something more going on than what I think there is. 

I've always known 4 major groups in the Ukraine:

Ukrainian Orthodox
U-Word
Roman Catholics
Ukranian Orthodox (Ecumenical Patriarchate)

Is there another one?  Ukranian Catholic?
« Last Edit: March 12, 2007, 06:07:34 PM by cleveland » Logged

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« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2007, 09:58:24 AM »

The Ukrainian Catholics are Eastern Catholics.

They absolutely blow the Ukrainian Orthodox out of the water in terms of membership here in Canada, though I suppose membership totals are a little nebulous.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2007, 11:31:58 AM by Postolowka » Logged

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« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2007, 10:39:44 AM »

Most immigration was from western Ukraine.
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« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2007, 11:26:05 AM »

We probobly covered this somewhere else, but I'm gonna ask anyway. 

Arn't the Eastern Catholics and the U-word folks the same thing? 
« Last Edit: March 12, 2007, 11:49:39 AM by FrChris » Logged

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« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2007, 11:28:56 AM »

Yes....

But I believe somewhere on the forum it is all mentioned that the "U-word" is considered inappropriate.

Therefore, given that it is understood the reference is the same, no need to devolve into potentially offensive terms.
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« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2007, 11:32:32 AM »

I agree.  I just wanted to know what we were talking about... Wink
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« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2007, 11:47:37 AM »

Just in case anyone has any questions:

Approximately 2 years ago (March 8. 2005), Mor Ephrem (a poster whom I greatly admire) had to comment on the use of the 'U-word':

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,5585.0.html

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I trust you are quite familiar with the rules here, and ask you to refrain in the future from using the term Uniate.  You can do better than that.   

This is not a new policy or a sudden increase in censorship; we're just maintaining the long established policies and traditions of this site.

C'mon, serbski---get with the program! You've posted here long enough to know not even to type out the word!
« Last Edit: March 12, 2007, 11:50:33 AM by FrChris » Logged

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« Reply #10 on: March 12, 2007, 01:03:48 PM »

someone remind me - is the H-word banned too? Cheesy
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« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2007, 02:57:53 PM »

Just in case anyone has any questions:

Approximately 2 years ago (March 8. 2005), Mor Ephrem (a poster whom I greatly admire) had to comment on the use of the 'U-word':

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,5585.0.html

This is not a new policy or a sudden increase in censorship; we're just maintaining the long established policies and traditions of this site.

C'mon, serbski---get with the program! You've posted here long enough to know not even to type out the word!

To my credit (or discredit) I am quite possibly the most forgetful person on the planet. 

I really am sorry though, I didn't do it intentionally... Embarrassed

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« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2007, 05:41:58 PM »

Now for the other U word: Wink
In the Ukraine.
Just to be pedantic, it is incorrect to refer to "the Ukraine". Ukraine is the name of a country. When Ukraine was a territory of the USSR, it was "the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic", and I think this may have confused English speakers. Similarly, one refers to "the United States of America", but one wouldn't say "the America".
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« Reply #13 on: March 12, 2007, 08:20:23 PM »

....back to my original question, how are Catholics received in Ukraine?
Does any one know or know of a source?

Basil
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« Reply #14 on: March 12, 2007, 11:09:05 PM »

OzGeorge,
Thank you very much for your great clarification in Reply #12. Much appreciated.

Basil Can,
Thank you very much for your interest to this issue. Actually, I am a native of Ukraine. Unfortunately, conversions of Catholics to Orthodoxy are not very common in Ukraine (said with all the respect to Catholics). Fortunately, here in UOC-USA we are blessed to have excellent clergy and laity, who were Roman Catholics or Eastern Catholics in the past.
I do believe that variant #2 is applied. And I will double check with experts. Right now, it is a little too late to call, sorry. Variant #1 (re-Baptism) is definitely excluded. Variant #4 is also not the case, while theoretically it could occur as a mistake of some priests. For sure, the same rules apply for both Roman Catholics and Eastern Catholics.
Ordinations of both Roman Catholic and Eastern Catholic clergy in case of their conversion to Orthodoxy are considered valid; therefore no re-ordination is required. Again, in Ukraine I can recall only one such case - Fr. Mykola Makar, an Eastern Rite Catholic, ordained in USA, converted in Ukraine, hold a position of the Prorector (Vice-President) of Kyiv Theological Academy and Seminary, now serves in France at the diocese of Moscow Patriarchate. As it has been mentioned, in USA and Canada, UOC has some great ex-Catholic clergy of different nationalities, some of those converted in lay status and ordained in the Orthodox Church.
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« Reply #15 on: March 13, 2007, 09:03:41 PM »

And I will double check with experts.
After further investigation it seems that because conversions of Catholics are not very common in Ukraine, that would be either Variant #2 or Variant #3. Pretty much, the situations are considered on case-by-case basis, when they appear.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2007, 09:04:31 PM by Starlight » Logged
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« Reply #16 on: March 13, 2007, 11:24:42 PM »

someone remind me - is the H-word banned too? Cheesy
You wanna know something funny? At the Catholic.com forum, the Eastern Orthodox are allowed to use the U-word. I mean, i hate the word, but it is so funny how it affects people differently.
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