Author Topic: Mix-Marriage Ordination  (Read 1798 times)

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Offline Orthodox11

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Mix-Marriage Ordination
« on: March 04, 2007, 01:31:32 PM »
According to the joint-statments between the Coptic and Greek Orthodox Popes of Alexandria, speaking of Coptic-Greek marriages: "Each of the two Patriarchates shall also accept to perform all of its other sacraments to that new family of Mixed Christian Marriage".

Does this mean that a Greek Orthodox man married to a Coptic woman, or a Coptic man married to a Greek Orthodox woman can be admitted to the holy priesthood?

(I'm looking for an authoritative/canonical answer, not personal opinions)

Thanks

Offline EkhristosAnesti

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Re: Mix-Marriage Ordination
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2007, 07:55:01 AM »
Well your question is quite specific, which means it won't get answered in the manner you request unless you specifically ask an authority. I'd try emailing His Grace Bishop Youssef; you can obtain his email from the Q&A section of the SUSCOPTS website.

Although not pertinent to your specific inquiry, I should stress that the stipulated arrangement concerning relationships between Coptic Orthodox men/women and Greek men/women, only pertain to Coptic Orthodox men/women and Greek men/women that reside in Egypt. It's a pastoral concession made in consideration of the religious and ethnic climate and situation of that particular country, and hence one that only applies in that particular country.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2007, 08:28:19 AM by EkhristosAnesti »
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Offline minasoliman

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Re: Mix-Marriage Ordination
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2007, 06:26:41 PM »
I have to say though that although this agreement is only limited to Egypt, I think it's being used as a precedent in other countries.  Here in the US, a GOA man and a Coptic woman were getting married, and I think they have made similar concessions in agreement with the bishops.

These things are indeed small, but I think concessions mean almost nothing if a couple is to be devoted to one parish.  Yes, it's nice, and it brings unity (and I certainly don't mean "nothing" that this is not important).  But if one is limited to one parish and is devoted to that one, I'm sure the intermarriage is not an impediment to being a priest, especially since both are "Orthodox" and both "should" be devoted only to that parish, regardless of jurisdiction.

Now, being a priest in that specific parish, usually it's very hard for priests to go to other parishes (let alone other jurisdictions) and pray there.  Practically, perhaps the priest and the wife will stay at the parish they serve regardless of their allowing to commune in others or not.  I don't think this should limit his becoming the priest, but the question of intercommuning is an interesting one.  If intercommuning is to happen, it would probably be between the agreement of two priests and congregations coming together in one church in some sort of special inter-Orthodox liturgy, or if one priest has to necessarily substitute the other who is to be absent for some time, (so long as that priest's parish is covered by another who serves with him) which means certain bishopric permissions, that is if he even knows how to pray in the Liturgical style he's substituting for in the first place.

At this moment, this is not happening significantly (if happening at all), so we may never really know until perhaps next generation of Orthodox believers.  Hopefully, this gets resolved if full unity is restored.

God bless.

Mina
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Offline Fr. George

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Re: Mix-Marriage Ordination
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2007, 10:21:14 PM »
I have to say though that although this agreement is only limited to Egypt, I think it's being used as a precedent in other countries.  Here in the US, a GOA man and a Coptic woman were getting married, and I think they have made similar concessions in agreement with the bishops.

These things are indeed small, but I think concessions mean almost nothing if a couple is to be devoted to one parish.  Yes, it's nice, and it brings unity (and I certainly don't mean "nothing" that this is not important).  But if one is limited to one parish and is devoted to that one, I'm sure the intermarriage is not an impediment to being a priest, especially since both are "Orthodox" and both "should" be devoted only to that parish, regardless of jurisdiction.

Now, being a priest in that specific parish, usually it's very hard for priests to go to other parishes (let alone other jurisdictions) and pray there.  Practically, perhaps the priest and the wife will stay at the parish they serve regardless of their allowing to commune in others or not.  I don't think this should limit his becoming the priest, but the question of intercommuning is an interesting one.  If intercommuning is to happen, it would probably be between the agreement of two priests and congregations coming together in one church in some sort of special inter-Orthodox liturgy, or if one priest has to necessarily substitute the other who is to be absent for some time, (so long as that priest's parish is covered by another who serves with him) which means certain bishopric permissions, that is if he even knows how to pray in the Liturgical style he's substituting for in the first place.

At this moment, this is not happening significantly (if happening at all), so we may never really know until perhaps next generation of Orthodox believers.  Hopefully, this gets resolved if full unity is restored.

God bless.

Mina

Well, if you're saying that it could be expanded, I'll at least throw in there that I've never heard of the EO ordaining any man married to a Coptic woman.
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Offline minasoliman

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Re: Mix-Marriage Ordination
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2007, 11:29:51 PM »
Well, if you're saying that it could be expanded, I'll at least throw in there that I've never heard of the EO ordaining any man married to a Coptic woman.

I never mentioned anything about an ordination that actually happened.  I just threw out ideals about it.  I haven't either for the record.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2007, 11:30:21 PM by minasoliman »
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Offline BasilCan

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Re: Mix-Marriage Ordination
« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2007, 03:50:56 PM »
Normally, at least in most EO jurisdictions, and I would only assume the same with the OO jurisdictions, if one's wife is not a member of the same church as the husband, he cannot be ordained. I have heard of exceptions done in North America, usually with convert priests in the Antiochian and OCA jurisdictions.

In my experience with people from the Middle East, the wife always takes on the faith of her husband. Thus, if a Catholic marries an Orthodox, she automatically becomes Orthodox. Though the "written rules" might require her to be "chrismated" this actually is rarely, if ever done. So, as you can see, this situation probably would never arise and, if it did, it would be in North America in all likelihood.

Basil

Offline Orthodox11

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Re: Mix-Marriage Ordination
« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2007, 05:49:45 PM »
I'd try emailing His Grace Bishop Youssef; you can obtain his email from the Q&A section of the SUSCOPTS website.

I did as you suggested and the reply I got was that "Yes, theoretically speaking this is right!"

Thanks for your help