Author Topic: PROJECT: Greek Psalms in Portuguese  (Read 641 times)

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Offline RaphaCam

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PROJECT: Greek Psalms in Portuguese
« on: November 25, 2015, 07:26:23 AM »
I was going to make this post in Portuguese, but I think Bible translations are a great theme for everyone to contribute, may they speak Portuguese or not. Since our Portuguese-speaking members will for sure understand, I'll go for English. You can answer in Portuguese if you wish, though.

As I heard from two priests that, although the Septuagint seems to have some centrality in Orthodox Christianity, we don't have any translation based on it (except for Deuterocanonicals and some internet sketches), I realised I could contribute to the Church by using just a bit of my spare time. I've recently started a project on the translation of the Psalms. They've been 14 since last Wednesday. I am basing it on the Greek text; using the Massoretic text, Portuguese Jerusalem Bible and Brenton's translation as parameters; Strong's Greek Concordance as a helping hand; and Almeida Corrigida Fiel as a lexical and stylistical guide.

First I'll post my method for each verse; then, how I dealt with Psalm 22 (23 in Massoretic numbering), comparing my translation to ACF's.

  • I check the Greek text, sometimes using word-to-word translation to get its overall meaning.
  • I check Brenton's translation to compare his understanding with mine. Sometimes I interpolate steps #1 and #2.
  • As I'm finally assured that I know what the verse means, I start to mind how it would sound in Portuguese, while I look at ACF for a reference and at BJ to check if they have relevant notes. If ACF and BJ are unclear, and/or they're way too different from the Septuagint, I may take a look at the Massoretic Text, just to be sure.
  • Time to translate. Clear, simple, commonplace and unambiguous words first.
  • As I translate those words, though, I may have a doubt with the simplest words. Say: how should I translate "thlipsis"? "Aflição"? "Perseguição"? "Tribulação"? That is the moment ACF comes in again. Strong's Greek Concordance will tell me where the word "thlipsis" was used in the New Testament and, unless I consider it a really poor vocabulary choice, I'll go with its correspondence.
  • Some words, though, are not used in the New Testament, or at least not in the sense we need for that Psalm. In that case, I'll look whether the verses are close enough in the Massoretic Text and the Septuagint for me to copy the word straight from ACF's Psalms. If that's not possible, fine, I'll just translate it myself.
  • After it's all done, time to recheck it as in steps #2 and #3, correct its flaws, give it appropriate style and maybe even add some bracketed words to make the text clearer.

This may sound excruciatingly slow, but I seldom take more than, say, three (?) minutes.

Let's go for the examples.

Salmo 23 - Almeida Corrigida e Fiel

  • O SENHOR é o meu pastor, nada me faltará.
  • Deitar-me faz em verdes pastos, guia-me mansamente a águas tranqüilas.
  • Refrigera a minha alma; guia-me pelas veredas da justiça, por amor do seu nome.
  • Ainda que eu andasse pelo vale da sombra da morte, não temeria mal algum, porque tu estás comigo; a tua vara e o teu cajado me consolam.
  • Preparas uma mesa perante mim na presença dos meus inimigos, unges a minha cabeça com óleo, o meu cálice transborda.
  • Certamente que a bondade e a misericórdia me seguirão todos os dias da minha vida; e habitarei na casa do Senhor por longos dias.

Salmo 22 - Salmos Gregos
  • (Salmo de Davi.) O Senhor me pastora, e nada me faltará.
  • Em lugares verdejantes, lá me fez habitar, de água de descanso me alimentou.
  • Minha alma restaurou; guiou-me pelas veredas da justiça por seu nome.
  • Pois mesmo que eu andasse pelo meio da sombra da morte, não temeria mal algum, porque tu vais comigo; tua vara e teu cajado, estes me consolam.
  • Preparaste uma mesa diante de mim contra os que me atribulam, ungiste com azeite a minha cabeça, e o teu cálice embriagou como o mais forte.
  • E a tua misericórdia me seguirá por todos os dias de minha vida; e minha habitação será a casa do Senhor por longos dias.

Opinions? Opiniões?  ;D

P.S.: "Salmos Gregos" é um bom nome para o projeto? O que acham?  :o
Die Erde steht in Ewigkeit. (Ec 1:4b)

Offline Fabio Leite

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Re: PROJECT: Greek Psalms in Portuguese
« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2015, 09:58:38 AM »
Rapha,

Although there are no official translations of the Septuagint into Portuguese, there are some into English. You'd be better off using those translations as references than the Jerusalem or Almeida versions.

Every translation is biased. The Jerusalem is biased toward an ecumenical "offend noone" stand and the Almeida version obviously to a Protestant one.

Use the Orthodox English translations as references, pay attention to their commentaries, seek Orthodox books with comentaries on the Psalms. But make no mistake, that is a good personal study activity only.

A proper translation would require *years* of scholarship in Greek, Portuguese, Biblical studies and Orthodox Theology. If you like the subject I would encourage you to seek the proper studies in some Orthodox Theological school. It's a life devoting thing and I agree, one very necessary. It's in times like these I wish I were rich to fund this kind of scholarships. :)
Many Energies, 3 Persons, 2 Natures, 1 God, 1 Church, 1 Baptism, and 1 Cup. The Son begotten only from the Father, the Spirit proceeding only from the Father, Each glorifying the Other. The Son sends the Spirit, the Spirit Reveals the Son, the Father is seen in the Son. The Spirit spoke through the Prophets and Fathers and does so even today.

Offline RaphaCam

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Re: PROJECT: Greek Psalms in Portuguese
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2015, 11:32:55 AM »
Fabio,

First of all, thank you for worrying with the quality of my humble translation.  ;D

I'm indeewould d Septuagint translation into English: that of Brenton's I mentioned. It's not Orthodox, but it's generally loyal to the Greek text (although it seems to try to "correct" some differences sometime). I should really look for an Orthodox translation though. It seems there is one that relies on Brenton's text, but it might be better.

I'm really no theologian, rather a language enthusiast who also happens to like the Book of Psalms. I would like to provide people with my amateur try though It would be an honour if some Portuguese speaking Orthodox erudite could revise my work, but I'm still on low expectations...

On Almeida: yes, it does have Protestant bias. But nothing that would harden comprehension of the Psalms. The hype about it is that I find its vocabulary choice amazing, so it works as a lexical reference. I find ACF well written and pleasurable to read.
Die Erde steht in Ewigkeit. (Ec 1:4b)

Offline Jonathan

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Re: PROJECT: Greek Psalms in Portuguese
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2015, 12:42:10 PM »
Rather than just comparing to Brenton for English, if you're spending this much time on it, you should compare to a few of the orthodox English translations.

There is the translation by archimandrite Lazarus Moore which is freely available online. There is the Psalter according to the 70, the Psalter for prayer, the OSB. Worth picking up a few.

Offline RaphaCam

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Re: PROJECT: Greek Psalms in Portuguese
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2015, 06:34:43 PM »
Rather than just comparing to Brenton for English, if you're spending this much time on it, you should compare to a few of the orthodox English translations.

There is the translation by archimandrite Lazarus Moore which is freely available online. There is the Psalter according to the 70, the Psalter for prayer, the OSB. Worth picking up a few.

Thanks for the references.
Die Erde steht in Ewigkeit. (Ec 1:4b)

Offline juliogb

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Re: PROJECT: Greek Psalms in Portuguese
« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2015, 08:45:40 AM »
Projeto interessante, já pensou em traduzir tudo e publicar???

Offline RaphaCam

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Re: PROJECT: Greek Psalms in Portuguese
« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2015, 12:06:44 AM »
Projeto interessante, já pensou em traduzir tudo e publicar???

Penso nisso! Gostaria de ter meu texto revisado antes, mas ficaria lindo: uma edição bilíngue, versejada, cheia de notas... Acho que não seria excepcionalmente difícil achar quem se interessasse, mesmo entre os não ortodoxos. :D
Die Erde steht in Ewigkeit. (Ec 1:4b)

Offline juliogb

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Re: PROJECT: Greek Psalms in Portuguese
« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2015, 11:54:59 AM »
Projeto interessante, já pensou em traduzir tudo e publicar???

Penso nisso! Gostaria de ter meu texto revisado antes, mas ficaria lindo: uma edição bilíngue, versejada, cheia de notas... Acho que não seria excepcionalmente difícil achar quem se interessasse, mesmo entre os não ortodoxos. :D

Talvez não, tá cheio de teólogo, seminarista e afins do meio católico romano e protestante que se interessaria.

Offline Fabio Leite

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Re: PROJECT: Greek Psalms in Portuguese
« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2015, 11:58:32 AM »
Projeto interessante, já pensou em traduzir tudo e publicar???

Penso nisso! Gostaria de ter meu texto revisado antes, mas ficaria lindo: uma edição bilíngue, versejada, cheia de notas... Acho que não seria excepcionalmente difícil achar quem se interessasse, mesmo entre os não ortodoxos. :D

Talvez não, tá cheio de teólogo, seminarista e afins do meio católico romano e protestante que se interessaria.

Se for em frente com o projeto, procure a turma da Editora Theotokos:

https://www.facebook.com/editoratheotokos
https://www.editoratheotokos.com.br
Many Energies, 3 Persons, 2 Natures, 1 God, 1 Church, 1 Baptism, and 1 Cup. The Son begotten only from the Father, the Spirit proceeding only from the Father, Each glorifying the Other. The Son sends the Spirit, the Spirit Reveals the Son, the Father is seen in the Son. The Spirit spoke through the Prophets and Fathers and does so even today.

Offline RaphaCam

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Re: PROJECT: Greek Psalms in Portuguese
« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2015, 02:48:52 PM »
Projeto interessante, já pensou em traduzir tudo e publicar???

Penso nisso! Gostaria de ter meu texto revisado antes, mas ficaria lindo: uma edição bilíngue, versejada, cheia de notas... Acho que não seria excepcionalmente difícil achar quem se interessasse, mesmo entre os não ortodoxos. :D

Talvez não, tá cheio de teólogo, seminarista e afins do meio católico romano e protestante que se interessaria.

Se for em frente com o projeto, procure a turma da Editora Theotokos:

https://www.facebook.com/editoratheotokos
https://www.editoratheotokos.com.br

Eu acho que tenho no Facebook uma moça envolvida com a Editora Theotokos. Vou cuidar de contatar eles quando tiver tudo pronto. Sigo trabalhando.
Die Erde steht in Ewigkeit. (Ec 1:4b)