The Sports Thread

[Timon]

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

isn't graying hair part of being an Atlanta fan in the first place?


stay blessed,
habte selassie

THIS is very true. 

I just have a feeling about this year.... All of my teams (Braves, Falcons, UGA) are good, and one of them... just ONE of them... is bound to do something!!!!

But then again, ive been a sports fan in this town my whole life.  I know how it goes...

Haha, I noticed you didn't mention the Hawks, perhaps for good reason

I was saying that last spring about LA teams, when the Lakes/Clippers, Dodgers, and Kings were all contending for a Championship.  Glad it was the Kings year, they deserve it the MOST, but as I mentioned about, the Dodgers decline from best in the MLB to one of the worst hitting teams in the past two months is disgustingly embarrassing because its been a pattern the past decade at least..

stay blessed,
habte selassie

I actually dont keep up with basketball that much.  Whenever the hawks clinch a first round playoff loss, I usually tune in to watch it but I dont want the whole season. 

Im all baseball and football, but im not really into any west coast teams other than the A's... and im not a REAL fan, but for some reason ive always been drawn to them. Raiders too.... theyre heavy metal.


Dodgers were certainly good not too long ago, but theyve fallen apart lately.  Im kind of indifferent on them.  Not a fan but dont hate em either.

[HabteSelassie]

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

The stats just keep adding up for Matt Ryan.

Best active home-win streak, had the second longest of interception free games (combining last season into this season) just behind Matt Stafford until last week when both QBs were picked off for the first time since 2011.

And now..

Most game-winning drives
since 2008
Player   Drives
Matt Ryan   17*
Peyton Manning   16
Drew Brees   15

Is Ryan the best QB in the NFL? Hardly.  But much like Lebron's stat lines, Matty Ice is sure in elite company

By the way watching the Eagles playing excellent football tonight, who do  you think is better at making incredible openings on the run, McCoy of Philly or Ray Rice of Baltimore?

More on the Eagles, it is actually really weird, its like Ryan has morphed into the old Michael Vick (passing deep and smart, scrambling when needed, running the no huddle well) from his Atlanta days, and now Atlanta is at their best season start since 2004 (i.e. Michael Vick who had initially attracted me to Atlanta in the first place).  On the flip side, last year in particular Matt Ryan always had this look before he passed which I called the "Matt Ryan Deer in the headlights" look like he was scared to make a move and he often took a second or two too long.  Mid-last season and this season Michael Vick has had that "deer in the headlights" look a lot, taking too long and getting sacked or hit a lot, and now Ryan is playing with skill and poise.  It is just surreal that two Falcons could so exactly switch up styles like that!



stay blessed,
habte selassie

[celticfan1888]

Russian Cup: CSKA 1 - 0 Tom Tomsk

http://pfc-cska.com/en/news/clubnews/?id=6214

[PeterTheAleut]

Team USA blew the Ryder Cup.

[Gebre Menfes Kidus]

Team USA blew the Ryder Cup.

Yep. Couldn't possibly have anything to do with the Europeans winning it. The grand ole USA is superior in everything, so when America loses it's never because any other nations were actually better. God forbid.


Selam

[PeterTheAleut]

Team USA blew the Ryder Cup.

Yep. Couldn't possibly have anything to do with the Europeans winning it. The grand ole USA is superior in everything, so when America loses it's never because any other nations were actually better. God forbid.

Dude, get off your freakin' high horse! I'd be willing to bet that if the Alabama football team lost after blowing a 30-point lead in the fourth quarter, you would complain just as loudly about how your boys choked. Why can't you let others do the same without you turning their whining into an opportunity for yet another one of your rants against the USA's "superiority complex"? The simple fact is that, no matter how well the European team played on Sunday, they would not have come back from being down 6-10 to win the Ryder Cup had Team USA not played so poorly.

[celticfan1888]

Team USA blew the Ryder Cup.

Yep. Couldn't possibly have anything to do with the Europeans winning it. The grand ole USA is superior in everything, so when America loses it's never because any other nations were actually better. God forbid.

Dude, get off your freakin' high horse! I'd be willing to bet that if the Alabama football team lost after blowing a 30-point lead in the fourth quarter, you would complain just as loudly about how your boys choked. Why can't you let others do the same without you turning their whining into an opportunity for yet another one of your rants against the USA's "superiority complex"? The simple fact is that, no matter how well the European team played on Sunday, they would not have come back and won the Ryder Cup had Team USA not played so poorly.

I think it had to do with both the USA chocking AND Europe playing quite well. I do honestly question the decision to put an all-star line-up to try to get the KO early on, but hey, what do I know about golf?

All I know is I hate USA vs Europe competitions, I never know who to pull for!

[PeterTheAleut]

Team USA blew the Ryder Cup.

Yep. Couldn't possibly have anything to do with the Europeans winning it. The grand ole USA is superior in everything, so when America loses it's never because any other nations were actually better. God forbid.

Dude, get off your freakin' high horse! I'd be willing to bet that if the Alabama football team lost after blowing a 30-point lead in the fourth quarter, you would complain just as loudly about how your boys choked. Why can't you let others do the same without you turning their whining into an opportunity for yet another one of your rants against the USA's "superiority complex"? The simple fact is that, no matter how well the European team played on Sunday, they would not have come back and won the Ryder Cup had Team USA not played so poorly.

I think it had to do with both the USA chocking AND Europe playing quite well. I do honestly question the decision to put an all-star line-up to try to get the KO early on, but hey, what do I know about golf?

All I know is I hate USA vs Europe competitions, I never know who to pull for!

I certainly do not deny that the Europeans played their best golf when they most needed to, but Team USA doesn't blow such a commanding lead without a number of players choking. They only needed to win 1/3 of their singles matches.

[celticfan1888]

Team USA blew the Ryder Cup.

Yep. Couldn't possibly have anything to do with the Europeans winning it. The grand ole USA is superior in everything, so when America loses it's never because any other nations were actually better. God forbid.

Dude, get off your freakin' high horse! I'd be willing to bet that if the Alabama football team lost after blowing a 30-point lead in the fourth quarter, you would complain just as loudly about how your boys choked. Why can't you let others do the same without you turning their whining into an opportunity for yet another one of your rants against the USA's "superiority complex"? The simple fact is that, no matter how well the European team played on Sunday, they would not have come back and won the Ryder Cup had Team USA not played so poorly.

I think it had to do with both the USA chocking AND Europe playing quite well. I do honestly question the decision to put an all-star line-up to try to get the KO early on, but hey, what do I know about golf?

All I know is I hate USA vs Europe competitions, I never know who to pull for!

I certainly do not deny that the Europeans played their best golf when they most needed to, but Team USA doesn't blow such a commanding lead without a number of players choking. They only needed to win 1/3 of their singles matches.

I absolutely agree.

[orthonorm]

Golf?

What's next Tiddlywinks?

[That person]

I would absolutely watch Tiddlywinks on TV.

[chrevbel]

Like everything else world-class, I would bet top-rank tiddlywinks would be pretty fascinating and impressive!

[celticfan1888]

European Cup: Manchester United (England) 2 - 1 CFR Cluj (Romania)

http://www.manutd.com/en/Fixtures-And-Results/Match-Reports/2012/Oct/cluj-v-manchester-united-match-report.aspx

[Asteriktos]

Before the baseball season started I said:

I predict that the Pirates will only lose 90 games this year... hooray! I actually like quite a few of their position players... they're not all-stars by any means (except perhaps McCutchen, and maybe Alvarez if he develops like they say he might), but many of them seem solid. Then again, considering where they have most of their money tied up, and considering their potential starting rotation... ugh, it's gonna be another long season. 

The Pirates just played their last game of the season. Their record? 72-90. BOOYA! Who da man? Who can make predictions like an old testament prophet!? 

This year I'm guessing they'll go about 78-84...  oh, and the Pirates will give up on Alvarez...

Final record of the Pirates this season: 79-83

[Shiny]

WOW! Almost Asteriktos!!

[HabteSelassie]

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

The NBA officially adopted an anti-flopping policy Wednesday, announcing a new rule that will fine repeat offenders this season.

Any player who flops during a regular-season game will be subject to a series of penalties, beginning with a warning for first-time violators. After the warning, players will be fined in increments of $5,000 for each additional flop over the course of the season. The fines increase to $30,000 for a fifth offense.

ESPN.com

About time Stern bosses up!  I think the NFL refz fiasco has had this great ripple effect, since the NBA had become used to being the WWE of American professional sports it looked like we had no hope.  However, when for a few brief weeks the NFL overtook the national dialogue and dubious distinction as being more McMahon than Madden, it looks like Stern saw the reality in the tea leaves.  Not that this new rule won't be controversial, after all, like Shane Battier recently commented at media day, who will decide exactly what is a flop and what is a foul will cause some speculation. Either way, Jeff Van Gundy must be even happier than if he had got a hair-treatment from Bosley Medical group! Surely we will all yell at the refz like we always have, its an American tradition, but at the least, the NBA is realizing that enough is enough and is attempting towards resolving this problem.  The question begged is when will FIFA finally get around to it?

stay blessed,
habte selassie

[Shiny]

The question begged is when will FIFA finally get around to it?

stay blessed,
habte selassie

Nope. Not even Michel Platini of UEFA will implement goal-line technology.

[HabteSelassie]

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

The question begged is when will FIFA finally get around to it?

stay blessed,
habte selassie

Nope. Not even Michel Platini of UEFA will implement goal-line technology.

Alas, you're right.  But we can hope can't we?  After all, the flop in the NBA evolved slowly over time.  In the 1980s it was non-existent. In the 1990s it was known as Divac's signature move, but it was more so ridiculed than assimilated.  I blame the 2000s era of Allen Iverson-Kobe Bryant hero-ball.  I stopped watching basketball during the peak of hero ball (2001-2005) when isolation plays, ball-hog shooters, and egocentric personalities dominated the NBA.  Yes, a good portion of this blame should fall on Michael Jordan, who created the  myth that one player could change a team.  It was a myth.  Did MJ win it big for the Bulls when he scored a still-standing NBA record 63 points in a play-off game? No, Chicago was still eliminated from that series.  Jordan didn't get to make his true impact until the Scottie Pippen-Horrace Grant-Phil Jackson era, and thrived even BETTER when Rodman replaced Grant by bringing that smothering Defense to basketball which gave MJ's hero-ball antics even more opportunities to take shots.  Kobe grew up on this, and tried to make it his game.  This is why he and Shaq conflicted so much, because a driving center like Shaq depends not on hero-ball, but good movement and distribution to get good looks or to use screens to open up shots for other guys.  This is what Lebron is doing so well today, folks know that he can shoot, so you have to put coverage on him even if he doesn't have the ball.  (Think about how good Stockton and Malone were at this) This is the core of Heat's pace and space, spacing the floor through screens and fakes to open up shots for perimeter players.  

I think that when Steve Nash got the MVP in 2005 that signaled the end of hero-ball era in NBA.  Kobe was crying to get traded!! The Hero-Ballers were in serious decline, and distributors were on the rise.  We are in the peak era of distribution b-ball. Now if a team doesn't have an 8 assist plus distributing PG they simply can't even make the play-offs it seems! Even the Lakers two-time Championship run was built on Pau Gasol getting 6-8 assists a game.  If teams don't have the guard to make the passes, they going Point-Forward like Scottie Pippen and Magic Johnson did to distribute the ball.  Again, this is what Lebron does best, but he is not alone. This is the new NBA.  An NBA that I LOVE to watch!  It is become strategic, mathematical, like a very good soccer game.  Phil Jackson's Triangle was similar, but it required very well-crafted pieces.  The "positionless" pace and space of the Heat is looking like the new Triangle, a dominating strategy that takes into account all the current playing types in the NBA.  

Hero-Ball I feel brought the FLOP to the forefront.  Hero-Ballers could get to the line 20 times in a game and win it  almost solely by free-throws (yeah Kobe, I'm looking at you!!!).  You could look at the box-score game after game, team after team, and see the differential that won the game was generally who had the free-throw advantage.  The entirety of the NBA began to play hero-ball, and master the FIFA flop (yeah Derrick Fisher, I'm looking at you too!!).  Today, even guys like Lebron flop, though laughably sometimes Lebron does it so obviously on purpose that I swear he is MOCKING the flop rather than trying to use it!!

I hope that getting rid of the flop brings back that high scoring offense of the 1970s, or the beautiful distribution of the Showtime era.  Hopefully we are in the process of an NBA renaissance, and I for one am so glad to be back.  I was big into basketball from 1992-2001, then walked away completely until 2009 when it looked like Hero-Ball was ending.  Oh, with guys like KD shooting buckets all day, its still creeping in there, but even while KD's shooting style is remniscent of hero-ball, his actual personality and vibe is far from being the kind of "I got this one guys" of the likes of Kobe or Iverson (or even Jordan for that matter).  Its a great time to be  basketball fan again

stay blessed,
habte selassie

[celticfan1888]

The question begged is when will FIFA finally get around to it?

They have in some countries' leagues.

[Deep Roots]

Go Orioles!  Down with the Yanks!

[LizaSymonenko]

How about them Tigers?

[biro]

Yay Cabrera!

[William]

Looks like it's post about baseball time.

orthonorm, if the Reds play in the World Series I'm gonna need you to come up with a few tickets and sell them to me bargain price. Thanks.

[HabteSelassie]

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

How about them Tigers?

How about those Dodgers?

stay blessed,
habte selassie

[Gebre Menfes Kidus]

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

The question begged is when will FIFA finally get around to it?

stay blessed,
habte selassie

Nope. Not even Michel Platini of UEFA will implement goal-line technology.

Alas, you're right.  But we can hope can't we?  After all, the flop in the NBA evolved slowly over time.  In the 1980s it was non-existent. In the 1990s it was known as Divac's signature move, but it was more so ridiculed than assimilated.  I blame the 2000s era of Allen Iverson-Kobe Bryant hero-ball.  I stopped watching basketball during the peak of hero ball (2001-2005) when isolation plays, ball-hog shooters, and egocentric personalities dominated the NBA.  Yes, a good portion of this blame should fall on Michael Jordan, who created the  myth that one player could change a team.  It was a myth.  Did MJ win it big for the Bulls when he scored a still-standing NBA record 63 points in a play-off game? No, Chicago was still eliminated from that series.  Jordan didn't get to make his true impact until the Scottie Pippen-Horrace Grant-Phil Jackson era, and thrived even BETTER when Rodman replaced Grant by bringing that smothering Defense to basketball which gave MJ's hero-ball antics even more opportunities to take shots.  Kobe grew up on this, and tried to make it his game.  This is why he and Shaq conflicted so much, because a driving center like Shaq depends not on hero-ball, but good movement and distribution to get good looks or to use screens to open up shots for other guys.  This is what Lebron is doing so well today, folks know that he can shoot, so you have to put coverage on him even if he doesn't have the ball.  (Think about how good Stockton and Malone were at this) This is the core of Heat's pace and space, spacing the floor through screens and fakes to open up shots for perimeter players.  

I think that when Steve Nash got the MVP in 2005 that signaled the end of hero-ball era in NBA.  Kobe was crying to get traded!! The Hero-Ballers were in serious decline, and distributors were on the rise.  We are in the peak era of distribution b-ball. Now if a team doesn't have an 8 assist plus distributing PG they simply can't even make the play-offs it seems! Even the Lakers two-time Championship run was built on Pau Gasol getting 6-8 assists a game.  If teams don't have the guard to make the passes, they going Point-Forward like Scottie Pippen and Magic Johnson did to distribute the ball.  Again, this is what Lebron does best, but he is not alone. This is the new NBA.  An NBA that I LOVE to watch!  It is become strategic, mathematical, like a very good soccer game.  Phil Jackson's Triangle was similar, but it required very well-crafted pieces.  The "positionless" pace and space of the Heat is looking like the new Triangle, a dominating strategy that takes into account all the current playing types in the NBA.  

Hero-Ball I feel brought the FLOP to the forefront.  Hero-Ballers could get to the line 20 times in a game and win it  almost solely by free-throws (yeah Kobe, I'm looking at you!!!).  You could look at the box-score game after game, team after team, and see the differential that won the game was generally who had the free-throw advantage.  The entirety of the NBA began to play hero-ball, and master the FIFA flop (yeah Derrick Fisher, I'm looking at you too!!).  Today, even guys like Lebron flop, though laughably sometimes Lebron does it so obviously on purpose that I swear he is MOCKING the flop rather than trying to use it!!

I hope that getting rid of the flop brings back that high scoring offense of the 1970s, or the beautiful distribution of the Showtime era.  Hopefully we are in the process of an NBA renaissance, and I for one am so glad to be back.  I was big into basketball from 1992-2001, then walked away completely until 2009 when it looked like Hero-Ball was ending.  Oh, with guys like KD shooting buckets all day, its still creeping in there, but even while KD's shooting style is remniscent of hero-ball, his actual personality and vibe is far from being the kind of "I got this one guys" of the likes of Kobe or Iverson (or even Jordan for that matter).  Its a great time to be  basketball fan again

stay blessed,
habte selassie

"Hero-ball" is a problem for those who aren't heroes. I can at least respect Lebron because he doesn't try to copy Jordan like Kobe does. Jordan was a true basketball hero, constantly improving, adapting, developing, and adjusting his game in order to make both himself and his team better.


Selam

[HabteSelassie]

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

"Hero-ball" is a problem for those who aren't heroes. I can at least respect Lebron because he doesn't try to copy Jordan like Kobe does. Jordan was a true basketball hero, constantly improving, adapting, developing, and adjusting his game in order to make both himself and his team better.


Selam

But even Jordan didn't win his rings through all out Allen Iverson-Kobe Bryant hero ball.  He didn't win until Scottie P came in playing Point-Forward (like Lebron plays by the way) and became a go-to distributor.  Even Kobe didn't win his rings until Shaq could do the same (i.e. make good screens and open shots by drawing the double team like Lebron also does and which Dwight Howard does at a Shaq level) and then later Pau Gasol (who nobody admits is ALSO a Point-Forward because Gasol is a power forward who has averaged 6-8 assists for the Lakers).  Jordan was indeed the king of hero-ball and the "I got this one guys" approach, but lets not kid ourselves, he hardly won 6 championships by himself.  The first ran had Scottie distributing and Grant either opening up or clogging the lane, and then the later incarnation brought the legendary and smothering defense of Rodman to make it even more superb.  It takes a TEAM to win a Championship, where was Jordan 1985-1989? Oh right, scoring in the 50 and 60 point range and getting eliminated in the post-season

Please don't think I don't love me some MJ here, its just perhaps what we love about that Bulls era is different aspects.  I loved Scottie Pippen almost MORE than Jordan, but clearly Jordan was the superior player at a solo level, but soloists don't entirely carry the tune.

stay blessed,
habte selassie

[William]

Harrison twins go commit to play for UK.

[Gebre Menfes Kidus]

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

"Hero-ball" is a problem for those who aren't heroes. I can at least respect Lebron because he doesn't try to copy Jordan like Kobe does. Jordan was a true basketball hero, constantly improving, adapting, developing, and adjusting his game in order to make both himself and his team better.


Selam

But even Jordan didn't win his rings through all out Allen Iverson-Kobe Bryant hero ball.  He didn't win until Scottie P came in playing Point-Forward (like Lebron plays by the way) and became a go-to distributor.  Even Kobe didn't win his rings until Shaq could do the same (i.e. make good screens and open shots by drawing the double team like Lebron also does and which Dwight Howard does at a Shaq level) and then later Pau Gasol (who nobody admits is ALSO a Point-Forward because Gasol is a power forward who has averaged 6-8 assists for the Lakers).  Jordan was indeed the king of hero-ball and the "I got this one guys" approach, but lets not kid ourselves, he hardly won 6 championships by himself.  The first ran had Scottie distributing and Grant either opening up or clogging the lane, and then the later incarnation brought the legendary and smothering defense of Rodman to make it even more superb.  It takes a TEAM to win a Championship, where was Jordan 1985-1989? Oh right, scoring in the 50 and 60 point range and getting eliminated in the post-season

Please don't think I don't love me some MJ here, its just perhaps what we love about that Bulls era is different aspects.  I loved Scottie Pippen almost MORE than Jordan, but clearly Jordan was the superior player at a solo level, but soloists don't entirely carry the tune.

stay blessed,
habte selassie

That was the point I made above. Jordan was a true basketball hero because he knew how to involve his team and he made everyone around him better. Pippen was a very, very good player, but I will always remember him pouting when the last shot was designed for Kukoc instead of him. That ain't greatness in my book.


Selam

[celticfan1888]

UEFA Cup: Rosenborg 0 - 1 Bayer Leverkusen

http://www.rbk.no/news/article/1g6c77x4e05jl1toc5hukvk051/title/knepent-tap-mot-leverkusen

[Asteriktos]

Outfield Infield Fly Rule

[William]

Outfield Infield Fly Rule

NFL replacement umpires.

[TheMathematician]

Honestly, i didnt watch the game, so i don't/cant have an opinion on what happened, but for reference, here is the text of the infield fly rule

An INFIELD FLY is a fair fly ball (not including a line drive nor an attempted bunt) which can be caught by an infielder with ordinary effort, when first and second, or first, second and third bases are occupied, before two are out. The pitcher, catcher and any outfielder who stations himself in the infield on the play shall be considered infielders for the purpose of this rule.
When it seems apparent that a batted ball will be an Infield Fly, the umpire shall immediately declare “Infield Fly” for the benefit of the runners. If the ball is near the baselines, the umpire shall declare “Infield Fly, if Fair.”
The ball is alive and runners may advance at the risk of the ball being caught, or retouch and advance after the ball is touched, the same as on any fly ball. If the hit becomes a foul ball, it is treated the same as any foul.
If a declared Infield Fly is allowed to fall untouched to the ground, and bounces foul before passing first or third base, it is a foul ball. If a declared Infield Fly falls untouched to the ground outside the baseline, and bounces fair before passing first or third base, it is an Infield Fly.
Rule 2.00 (Infield Fly) Comment: On the infield fly rule the umpire is to rule whether the ball could ordinarily have been handled by an infielder—not by some arbitrary limitation such as the grass, or the base lines. The umpire must rule also that a ball is an infield fly, even if handled by an outfielder, if, in the umpire’s judgment, the ball could have been as easily handled by an infielder. The infield fly is in no sense to be considered an appeal play. The umpire’s judgment must govern, and the decision should be made immediately.
When an infield fly rule is called, runners may advance at their own risk. If on an infield fly rule, the infielder intentionally drops a fair ball, the ball remains in play despite the provisions of Rule 6.05 (L). The infield fly rule takes precedence.

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/official_info/official_rules/definition_terms_2.jsp

[ironchapman]

Outfield Infield Fly Rule

NFL replacement umpires.

Braves got jobbed. 'Nuff said.

[TheMathematician]

Springboks All blacks game about to start in 10

While the game doesnt mean much for the Castle Rugby Championship, it is still a must win for pride, and most importantly, to keep the number two ranking in the world.



BOKKE!!!!!

[chrevbel]

Outfield Infield Fly Rule

The call was correct.  What was awful was some of the commentary in follow-up.  Jim McKean, a former MLB ump, said that the ordinary effort phrase applies to either the oufielder or infielder.  What!?  It has to be the infielder, you dolt, as that's the whole reason for the rule.  In the same interview, he said that failing to properly call an infield fly results in a potential throw to second and then to first for a double play.  NO!!  The batter should have easily reached first.  The risk is a throw to third and then second, which is the reason the infield fly rule doesn't apply with a runner only on first.

I was quite disappointed at several professionals' comments, demonstrating that they don't actually understand one of the subtle complexities of their own sport.

[PeterTheAleut]

Outfield Infield Fly Rule

The call was correct.  What was awful was some of the commentary in follow-up.  Jim McKean, a former MLB ump, said that the ordinary effort phrase applies to either the oufielder or infielder.  What!?  It has to be the infielder, you dolt, as that's the whole reason for the rule.

Actually, according to the rule TheMathematician cited above, the ordinary effort phrase of the Infield Fly rule applies also to any outfielder who has stationed himself on the infield for the play. The Infield Fly rule must also be invoked immediately after the ball is popped up, which creates the possibility that the fly ball may drift a bit farther back behind the infield than the calling umpire initially thought it would, something that may have happened in this case. Any way you look at it, this is a judgment call to be made by the umpire, and Joe Torre was right to back up this judgment call by preemptively deny the Braves' appeal.

[William]

Outfield Infield Fly Rule

The call was correct.  What was awful was some of the commentary in follow-up.  Jim McKean, a former MLB ump, said that the ordinary effort phrase applies to either the oufielder or infielder.  What!?  It has to be the infielder, you dolt, as that's the whole reason for the rule.

Actually, according to the rule TheMathematician cited above, the ordinary effort phrase of the Infield Fly rule applies also to any outfielder who has stationed himself on the infield for the play. The Infield Fly rule must also be invoked immediately after the ball is popped up, which creates the possibility that the fly ball may drift a bit farther back behind the infield than the calling umpire initially thought it would, something that may have happened in this case. Any way you look at it, this is a judgment call to be made by the umpire, and Joe Torre was right to back up this judgment call by preemptively deny the Braves' appeal.

What does that have to do with the outfielder/infielder's effort?

[PeterTheAleut]

Outfield Infield Fly Rule

The call was correct.  What was awful was some of the commentary in follow-up.  Jim McKean, a former MLB ump, said that the ordinary effort phrase applies to either the oufielder or infielder.  What!?  It has to be the infielder, you dolt, as that's the whole reason for the rule.

Actually, according to the rule TheMathematician cited above, the ordinary effort phrase of the Infield Fly rule applies also to any outfielder who has stationed himself on the infield for the play. The Infield Fly rule must also be invoked immediately after the ball is popped up, which creates the possibility that the fly ball may drift a bit farther back behind the infield than the calling umpire initially thought it would, something that may have happened in this case. Any way you look at it, this is a judgment call to be made by the umpire, and Joe Torre was right to back up this judgment call by preemptively deny the Braves' appeal.

What does that have to do with the outfielder/infielder's effort?

Nothing. I attempted in the phrase you highlighted to bring out how the application of the Infield Fly rule is necessarily a snap decision that may not anticipate accurately what happens later in the play. The rule is applicable when the umpire anticipates that the infielder/outfielder should have no problem catching the ball, not after the infielder/outfielder demonstrates no problem catching it.

[chrevbel]

The call was correct.  What was awful was some of the commentary in follow-up.  Jim McKean, a former MLB ump, said that the ordinary effort phrase applies to either the oufielder or infielder.  What!?  It has to be the infielder, you dolt, as that's the whole reason for the rule.

Actually, according to the rule TheMathematician cited above, the ordinary effort phrase of the Infield Fly rule applies also to any outfielder who has stationed himself on the infield for the play.

Quite correct, except that I don't think that has occurred in MLB in something like 100 years.  On this particular play, Holliday was in standard outfield position, so the rule would not have applied to him.  McKean didn't seem to get this.  I was surprised.

The Infield Fly rule must also be invoked immediately after the ball is popped up, which creates the possibility that the fly ball may drift a bit farther back behind the infield than the calling umpire initially thought it would, something that may have happened in this case.

I don't think so.  I believe it's standard practice that the call be made before, or just as, the ball begins its descent, and that's perhaps captured in "guidance to officials" language, but not in the rule itself.  Do you have a reference?

Any way you look at it, this is a judgment call to be made by the umpire, and Joe Torre was right to back up this judgment call by preemptively deny the Braves' appeal.

100% agree.

[PeterTheAleut]

Gators eat Tigers.

[celticfan1888]

Gators eat Tigers.

Pretty accurate

[Gebre Menfes Kidus]

Gators eat Tigers.

Pretty accurate

Not real surprised. Thought LSU would win in a close one. It's not over for the Tigers. They could win out the rest of the way, win the SEC title and still play for the National Championship. However, I don't think that will happen. Right now I think it will be the TIDE and the Gamecocks in Atlanta. But my TIDE will have to really step it up to beat South Carolina.

Very early National Championship prediction:

South Carolina beats Oregon in a classic game.

Hope I'm wrong though.


Selam

[PeterTheAleut]

Gators eat Tigers.

Pretty accurate

Not real surprised. Thought LSU would win in a close one. It's not over for the Tigers. They could win out the rest of the way, win the SEC title and still play for the National Championship. However, I don't think that will happen. Right now I think it will be the TIDE and the Gamecocks in Atlanta. But my TIDE will have to really step it up to beat South Carolina.

Very early National Championship prediction:

South Carolina beats Oregon in a classic game.

Hope I'm wrong though.

Yeah, I hope you're wrong, too. GO DUCKS!

[PeterTheAleut]

I see the Seminoles just got ambushed by a pack of Wolves.

[Cymbyz]

Very atypical day for my almae matres.  First, TCU lost decisively to Iowa St., which has a reputation for knocking off one or more highly-ranked teams every season.  Obviously, the Frogs don't have the offense to get through the season in decent shape, especially without Pachall, who is blessed with chrisma and prowess, but cursed with an over-fondness for booze and pot, and was suspended for this game.

Then, Texas was beaten by West Virginia in a very close, high-scoring game--thankfully, not as much a shootout as happened in Morgantown last week.  They just didn't have the horses to beat Geno Smith & Co.

And--surprise, surprise!--Cal just got through clobbering UCLA, which only goes to show that, mediocre though the Big Bears may be, the Little Bears may be more so.

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