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Author Topic: The Sports Thread  (Read 413575 times) Average Rating: 5
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Gebre Menfes Kidus
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« Reply #585 on: November 01, 2009, 01:41:58 AM »

(10) Oregon 47, (5) USC 20

RB LaMichael James 24 carries for 184 yards rushing
QB Jeremiah Masoli 13 carries for 164 yards rushing and 19/31 passing for 221 yards
392 team yards rushing against a Trojan defense that allowed an average of not quite 80 per game previously

613 yards total offense
47 points - the most ever allowed by any USC team coached by Pete Carroll

Ducks unbeaten in the Pac-10 after 5 conference games

GO DUCKS!!!

Yes bredren! Great win for Oregon. They always expose how overated USC is. But more than that, Oregon is good! You guys are building a solid program out there. Always a great crowd and a great environment. Oregon today reminds me of Washington in the days of Warren Moon. Congrats! Smiley

Selam
I just found out that USC has not won a game in Oregon (in Eugene against Oregon or in Corvallis against Oregon State) the last four years.

That's an amazingly cool stat.

So tell me, who would the "O" rather beat- USC or Oregon State?

Selam
Oregon State, definitely.  Nothing like beating our in-state rivals.

I guess USC to you guys is like Tennessee to us. UT is our biggest rival after Auburn.

Selam
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« Reply #586 on: November 01, 2009, 01:43:12 AM »

I have a question for Americans who are big into college sports.  Are these your alma mater?  Or you just cheer for certain teams like in pro sports?
I root for both University of Oregon and Oregon State University, even though I never graduated from either, simply because they're the two major universities in my state of residence.

Ah okay, do you follow your Alma Mater close too?
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« Reply #587 on: November 01, 2009, 01:57:19 AM »

I have a question for Americans who are big into college sports.  Are these your alma mater?  Or you just cheer for certain teams like in pro sports?

In the South, football is a way of life. In states like Alabama, Mississippi, and Georgia, one learns early to identify with a certain team. There is no sharing of allegiances so to speak. You are forced by culture to take sides.

I remember years ago when I was the youth pastor of a Baptist Church in a small town just outside of Birmingham, Alabama. Most of the young people at our Church were very poor and lived in some very difficult home environments. A lot of them lived in broken down trailors. But one thing I noticed: no matter how disfunctional and impoverished these people were, they always came together and united around the Alabama Crimson Tide. Often, the most expensive item they had in their home was an elaborate portrait of Bear Bryant that they deeply cherished. I even once saw a huge painting (this is no joke) of Bear Bryant walking on water!

In the South, each college football team represents certain cultural values and traditions. It is much more than a mere hobby or form of entertainment. People feel personally and culturally validated or defeated based upon their team's achievements.

Is this a good thing? Is this right? Certainly not. But I myself cannot pull myself away from it! It runs deeeeeep man, very deep.

Selam  
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« Reply #588 on: November 01, 2009, 02:08:49 AM »

What a difference compared to up here.   laugh  You have an allegiance to your alma mater, if that.   Tongue

I wouldn't want to live in a household with divided allegiances.   laugh
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« Reply #589 on: November 01, 2009, 02:39:17 AM »

(10) Oregon 47, (5) USC 20

RB LaMichael James 24 carries for 184 yards rushing
QB Jeremiah Masoli 13 carries for 164 yards rushing and 19/31 passing for 221 yards
392 team yards rushing against a Trojan defense that allowed an average of not quite 80 per game previously

613 yards total offense
47 points - the most ever allowed by any USC team coached by Pete Carroll

Ducks unbeaten in the Pac-10 after 5 conference games

GO DUCKS!!!

Yes bredren! Great win for Oregon. They always expose how overated USC is. But more than that, Oregon is good! You guys are building a solid program out there. Always a great crowd and a great environment. Oregon today reminds me of Washington in the days of Warren Moon. Congrats! Smiley

Selam
I just found out that USC has not won a game in Oregon (in Eugene against Oregon or in Corvallis against Oregon State) the last four years.

That's an amazingly cool stat.

So tell me, who would the "O" rather beat- USC or Oregon State?

Selam
Oregon State, definitely.  Nothing like beating our in-state rivals.

I guess USC to you guys is like Tennessee to us. UT is our biggest rival after Auburn.

Selam
Actually, the only reason we have any kind of football rivalry with USC right now is that the Trojans are always winning the Pac-10 championship.  The best teams know that to be the best, you have to beat the best.
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« Reply #590 on: November 01, 2009, 02:41:55 AM »

I have a question for Americans who are big into college sports.  Are these your alma mater?  Or you just cheer for certain teams like in pro sports?
I root for both University of Oregon and Oregon State University, even though I never graduated from either, simply because they're the two major universities in my state of residence.

Ah okay, do you follow your Alma Mater close too?
Considering that George Fox University (NCAA Division III) doesn't play in the same enrollment division as Oregon and Oregon State (Division I), yes I do.  Defending Div. III national champions in women's basketball, and with a team of ten sophomores this coming winter!
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« Reply #591 on: November 01, 2009, 02:48:51 AM »

I have a question for Americans who are big into college sports.  Are these your alma mater?  Or you just cheer for certain teams like in pro sports?
I root for both University of Oregon and Oregon State University, even though I never graduated from either, simply because they're the two major universities in my state of residence.

Ah okay, do you follow your Alma Mater close too?
Considering that George Fox University (NCAA Division III) doesn't play in the same enrollment division as Oregon and Oregon State (Division I), yes I do.  Defending Div. III national champions in women's basketball, and with a team of ten sophomores this coming winter!

George Fox University! Cool! Never heard of it, but it sounds great. I'll go out a limb and guess that their mascot is the "Quakers?" Smiley

Selam
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« Reply #592 on: November 01, 2009, 03:55:47 AM »

I have a question for Americans who are big into college sports.  Are these your alma mater?  Or you just cheer for certain teams like in pro sports?
I root for both University of Oregon and Oregon State University, even though I never graduated from either, simply because they're the two major universities in my state of residence.

Ah okay, do you follow your Alma Mater close too?
Considering that George Fox University (NCAA Division III) doesn't play in the same enrollment division as Oregon and Oregon State (Division I), yes I do.  Defending Div. III national champions in women's basketball, and with a team of ten sophomores this coming winter!

George Fox University! Cool! Never heard of it, but it sounds great. I'll go out a limb and guess that their mascot is the "Quakers?" Smiley
Nah.  It's the Bruins.  However, I don't think you could get away with calling them the Fighting Bruins. Grin

They did have a live bear for a mascot at one time, though.
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« Reply #593 on: November 01, 2009, 01:10:07 PM »

So, today Brett Favre returns to [NFL Films Voice]the frozen tundra of Lambeau field[/Voice]. I think it's going to be an entertaining game, hopefully they carry it in my area.
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« Reply #594 on: November 01, 2009, 07:06:52 PM »

They have a "Favre cam," which tracks his every move during the game, so you can watch him (online) if you want.  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #595 on: November 01, 2009, 10:10:52 PM »

They have a "Favre cam," which tracks his every move during the game, so you can watch him (online) if you want.  Roll Eyes
Great idea! That camera will solve Favre's problem of not getting enough attention. Roll Eyes
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« Reply #596 on: November 01, 2009, 10:23:00 PM »

Well, Mauricio "Shogun" Rua (my avatar and my second favorite fighter only after Fedor Emelianenko) lost a decision to Lyoto Machida tonight, though there are riots all over MMA forums claiming the fight was somehow fixed.  Shogun clearly won the fight 4 rounds to 1 IMO (or 49-46).  Shogun is the people's champ of the UFC LHW division.       


continued:
the results of various MMA sites before the official decision:

Yahoo Sports / Cagewriter: 48-47 Rua
BloodyElbow : 48-47 Rua
USAToday: 48-47 Rua, 49-46 Rua
MMA Fanhouse / Michael David Smith: 48-47 Rua
MMATorch : 48-47 Rua
MMAJunkie : 49-46 or 48-47 Rua
MMAMania : 50-45 Rua
5 Ounces of Pain : Rua (no score given)
Fightlinker -- Rua (no score given)
ProMMA.Info: 50-45 Rua


They should have both been deemed losers for boring the heck out of me. What I saw was not an MMA fight; it was a sissy quasi-kickboxing fight.
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« Reply #597 on: November 01, 2009, 10:56:34 PM »

In the South, each college football team represents certain cultural values and traditions.

They do?   Roll Eyes

It is much more than a mere hobby or form of entertainment. People feel personally and culturally validated or defeated based upon their team's achievements.

Maybe once upon a time when dirt roads connected the SEC Schools.   Grin  Wink  Grin

Is this a good thing? Is this right? Certainly not. But I myself cannot pull myself away from it! It runs deeeeeep man, very deep.

My affinity for the Terps in football are shallow, very shallow after Bobby Ross left.  I used to be a huge U. of Miami fan against Notre Dame and against Penn St (when Penn St. would regularly beat Maryland 70-7).  Never liked the Big 10; never liked the Pac-10; never cared for the Big 8/12 other than Nebraska under Tom Osborne and Colorado's good years.  Didn't care for anyone else in the former Big East except for Syracuse in the McNabb days.
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« Reply #598 on: November 02, 2009, 01:14:12 AM »

In the South, each college football team represents certain cultural values and traditions.

They do?   Roll Eyes

It is much more than a mere hobby or form of entertainment. People feel personally and culturally validated or defeated based upon their team's achievements.

Maybe once upon a time when dirt roads connected the SEC Schools.   Grin  Wink  Grin

Is this a good thing? Is this right? Certainly not. But I myself cannot pull myself away from it! It runs deeeeeep man, very deep.

My affinity for the Terps in football are shallow, very shallow after Bobby Ross left.  I used to be a huge U. of Miami fan against Notre Dame and against Penn St (when Penn St. would regularly beat Maryland 70-7).  Never liked the Big 10; never liked the Pac-10; never cared for the Big 8/12 other than Nebraska under Tom Osborne and Colorado's good years.  Didn't care for anyone else in the former Big East except for Syracuse in the McNabb days.
You just don't care about anyone, do you?
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« Reply #599 on: November 02, 2009, 08:16:33 AM »

So, today Brett Favre returns to [NFL Films Voice]the frozen tundra of Lambeau field[/Voice]. I think it's going to be an entertaining game, hopefully they carry it in my area.

Entertaining indeed, to the tune of 4TDs.
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« Reply #600 on: November 02, 2009, 12:51:10 PM »

Favre and Vikings are 7-1 at the halfway point of the season.  Let's see if he doesn't go 1-7 to end the season at 8-8 like he did with the '08 Jets; although, he didn't have Adrian Peterson at the Jets.
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« Reply #601 on: November 02, 2009, 12:54:01 PM »

Favre and Vikings are 7-1 at the halfway point of the season.  Let's see if he doesn't go 1-7 to end the season at 8-8 like he did with the '08 Jets; although, he didn't have Adrian Peterson at the Jets.

I think it would be impossible for Y.A. Tittle's corpse to go 1-7 with A.P. at running back.
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« Reply #602 on: November 03, 2009, 01:44:52 AM »

Favre and Vikings are 7-1 at the halfway point of the season.  Let's see if he doesn't go 1-7 to end the season at 8-8 like he did with the '08 Jets; although, he didn't have Adrian Peterson at the Jets.

I think it would be impossible for Y.A. Tittle's corpse to go 1-7 with A.P. at running back.

I doubt if 1% of the members here would know who he was or played for...
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« Reply #603 on: November 03, 2009, 01:49:08 AM »

Tittle... that was one of the teachers on Saved By the Bell, right? Mr. Tittle?  Wait, that was Tuttle. Nevermind. Don't know him. Smiley
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« Reply #604 on: November 03, 2009, 02:49:19 AM »

I think it would be impossible for Y.A. Tittle's corpse to go 1-7 with A.P. at running back.

I doubt if 1% of the members here would know who he was or played for...

I knew he played for the Giants; I had forgotten he played for the 49'ers and the first iteration of the Baltimore Colts.
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« Reply #605 on: November 03, 2009, 04:50:51 AM »

I think it would be impossible for Y.A. Tittle's corpse to go 1-7 with A.P. at running back.

I doubt if 1% of the members here would know who he was or played for...

I knew he played for the Giants; I had forgotten he played for the 49'ers and the first iteration of the Baltimore Colts.

Y.A. Tittle: Innovator of the "jump pass!"

Selam
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« Reply #606 on: November 03, 2009, 08:10:03 AM »

Favre and Vikings are 7-1 at the halfway point of the season.  Let's see if he doesn't go 1-7 to end the season at 8-8 like he did with the '08 Jets; although, he didn't have Adrian Peterson at the Jets.

I think it would be impossible for Y.A. Tittle's corpse to go 1-7 with A.P. at running back.

I doubt if 1% of the members here would know who he was or played for...

Ahh, true; but I was hoping my post would be a rallying cry for the 1% to become more active here.  In fairness, I was putting out a bit of a test, because Mr. Tittle isn't actually dead, and I was hoping a few people would catch on, but no matter.  Whether alive or dead, I think anyone could win 2 out of 8 with Mr. Peterson lining up behind/next to/near them.
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« Reply #607 on: November 03, 2009, 11:06:07 AM »

EA

Fair enough.  Rua is actually known for his aggression, particularly for his Muay Thai clinch, stomps, and soccer kicks (stomps and soccer kicks are prohibited by the NSAC; therefore not allowed in the UFC).  Here is a short video of Rua using such techniques in PrideFC (which allowed stomps and soccer kicks):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aI3Ic7IDofw
My friend ordered the PPV, and one person in attendance didn't know much about either fighter and actually fell asleep during the fight. As for me, I was on the edge of my seat (not to mention four of the other five in attendance).  Machida is known for his "elusiveness" and his counter-striking; Rua, known for his "wild and aggressive striking" stayed patient and was able to counter most of Machida's counter-strikes.  One must remember that up until this fight, Machida had never lost a round in 15 professional MMA fights; while in this fight the judges gave Rua two rounds (though the majority of MMA analysts gave Rua four rounds).  To me (and perhaps there is some bias due to Rua being my second favorite fighter) the fight was very exciting. 
 
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« Reply #608 on: November 03, 2009, 07:46:10 PM »

Florida Gator linebacker Brandon Spikes suspended by his coach for the ENTIRE FIRST HALF of the next game against Vanderbilt for trying to gouge out the eyes of a University of Georgia player. Way to take tough stand Urban Meyer! Roll Eyes Watch what he did here:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=cISxU8Crulw

I wonder what would have happened to a player who did the same thing to St. Tebow?

Selam
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« Reply #609 on: November 03, 2009, 07:53:45 PM »

I gotta admit, I had to chuckle with an eye gouging post right after a UFC post, because whenever I think of an eye gouge, I think of how the initial UFC events were advertised as no holds barred and no rules events, when in fact they did have rules like no eye gouging.

EDIT--Also, I agree, if something like that had happened to one of the marquee names, the penalty would have been much worse.
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« Reply #610 on: November 03, 2009, 08:51:37 PM »

You're right about Machida; very elusive...so elusive in fact that I forgot he was even in the cage at times. I guess that's what happens when fighters like him get their black belts after an intensive 1-3 years of training. When a student crams in a whole semester's worth of study the week before the final exam, it may get them the pass they’re after, but nothing of what they learnt during that cram-period is going to be able to register in the long-term. Likewise with Machida, it's clear that in all probability half the moves he learnt in the course of his training did not have the opportunity to properly settle in his subconscious; his ability to get a good handle of such moves so quickly may have allowed him a smooth pass to the next belt, but from that point on those moves would have become completely redundant for future use.

Given that my own Martial Arts forte and personal favourite is BJJ, I guess I am most unimpressed by how most of the UFC fighters I've seen so far handle ground combat. I can't remember the particular fighter's name, but I recall the commentators going on and on about how he's a purple belt in BJJ and that should he get his opponent down to the ground it might as well be all over for his opponent given how skilled a BJJ fighter he was. First of all, his take-downs were shocking—aimless shooting at the legs from a ridiculous distance. Second of all, all he did from whatever position he found himself in the course of grappling (closed guard, to side-control) was ground and pound like a meathead. There are over 600 techniques in BJJ, and all this guy could do was maintain his position and ground and pound.

If we took away the cage, the audience, the commentators, the belts etc., and just had two guys out on the street looking to destroy one another—and conversely protect themselves as best they can from being so destroyed—for whatever purpose they have in mind (this is an Orthodox forum, so let's go with "opposition to heresy" yeah?), all in the heat of the moment, then I might understand the blatant disregard for technique. But otherwise, I have yet to see a UFC fight that does justice to MMA (granted, I have only seen 4-5 such fights).

Quote
Here is a short video of Rua using such techniques in PrideFC (which allowed stomps and soccer kicks):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aI3Ic7IDofw

Still not impressed. Stomps and soccer kicks don't require much skill; or at most they require such in terms of the ability to time these things properly, but otherwise they're just cheap shots as far as I'm concerned. For me, the most impressive moment of that entire clip was the high kick at 00:33—which didn’t even connect.
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« Reply #611 on: November 03, 2009, 10:23:05 PM »

EA

Happy to have this logical discussion concerning MMA (usually on MMA forums one will run into the biggest idiots).
Concerning Machida and his karate, from what I understand he has been practicing karate, bjj, and even sumo since he was a young child (his father is a karate sensai in Brazil).  He has both a black belt in bjj and "Machida" karate, a style created by his father.  Rua also owns a black belt in bjj, but both fighters consider themselves stand-up fighters.
Concerning Rua's stomps and soccer kicks, the were presented to show his aggressive style, not so much for there technique.  Whether these techniques are really "technical" or not doesn't really matter to me, I believe they should be legal in all MMA matches.
Now concerning the technique of these fighters, not all fighters follow the certain techniques to perfection (in fact some fighters, such as Emelianenko Fedor seem to pride themselves in not following the technique).  Furthermore, much of the techniques found in bjj (as well as judo) focus on creating leverage with the gi; and since the vast majority of mma organizations prohibit fighters from wearing the gi the orthodox technique often times must be adapted to no gi (thus the fights are less technical).
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« Reply #612 on: November 03, 2009, 11:57:53 PM »

^  I don't know how an Orthodox Christian could watch barbarous displays like these, yet alone enjoy them.
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« Reply #613 on: November 03, 2009, 11:58:36 PM »

^  I don't know how an Orthodox Christian could watch barbarous displays like these, yet alone enjoy them.

I have to agree.....
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« Reply #614 on: November 04, 2009, 12:22:16 AM »

^  I don't know how an Orthodox Christian could watch barbarous displays like these, yet alone enjoy them.

I have to agree.....


So do I.


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« Reply #615 on: November 04, 2009, 01:26:38 AM »

I will answer for myself, but I do so as a practising Mixed Martial Artist.

In theory, and generally speaking, the Martial Arts do not aim at the destruction of the opponent, and are underpinned by philosophical assumptions conducive to the Christian spirit. For example, the Art of Hapkido (one of the Martial Arts i'm being trained in) is underpinned by what is known as the 'Principle of Water' which seeks to build patience and non-resistant adaptability. When water flows down a hill, for example, towards a rock, it doesn't seek to push past the rock by exerting extra force, rather it just flows around it (harmonious adaptability); should the rock be too large to allow the stream of water to pass around it, the water patiently waits until it reaches sufficient volume on the rock to overflow that rock. Such is the type of psychology that Hapkido techniques instil in the practitioner, and no doubt this can be spiritualised in a number of meaningful ways. More generally, most of the Martial Arts help develop a Christian character by inspiring humility, patience, perseverance, focus, discipline, and respect. Mixed Martial Arts, incorporating the techniques of a variety of Martial Arts, in a sense increases the intensity of the physical and psychological conditioning involved and hence reinforces the general virtues aroused by the individual Martial Art systems to a greater degree. The spiritual implications of MMA training are, as I have discovered by experience, many, and I have plenty more examples and issues that I could discuss in further detail, but I’ll leave it at that.

In terms of viewing MMA matches, I personally don't find it enjoyable when I see two fighters simply trying to destroy each other whilst using very little technique—which I think I made pretty clear in my previous post. MMA is not about brutal force. I enjoy watching fights with a trained eye able to pick up on good methodical and technical movements and maybe even learn a few such moves myself. When we fight at our MMA gym, we are constantly taught not to exert so much force in a punch or kick as if in an attempt to knock the opponent out, but only to employ kicks and punches strategically. The fight should end not because the opponent got knocked unconscious by a power blow to the head, but because he was strategically put into submission—a point at which he is able to tap out before incurring any real injury.

I don't doubt that some enjoy watching MMA just to watch their favourite fighter beat the heck out of the opponent; and I am aware that even in my own MMA centre, some of the guys I train with couldn't give a hoot about strategy or character development, but just want to be to able to kick some butt should they ever get into a street fight. In the end, "to the pure, all things are pure".
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« Reply #616 on: November 04, 2009, 01:35:34 AM »

I will answer for myself, but I do so as a practising Mixed Martial Artist.

In theory, and generally speaking, the Martial Arts do not aim at the destruction of the opponent, and are underpinned by philosophical assumptions conducive to the Christian spirit. For example, the Art of Hapkido (one of the Martial Arts i'm being trained in) is underpinned by what is known as the 'Principle of Water' which seeks to build patience and non-resistant adaptability. When water flows down a hill, for example, towards a rock, it doesn't seek to push past the rock by exerting extra force, rather it just flows around it (harmonious adaptability); should the rock be too large to allow the stream of water to pass around it, the water patiently waits until it reaches sufficient volume on the rock to overflow that rock. Such is the type of psychology that Hapkido techniques instil in the practitioner, and no doubt this can be spiritualised in a number of meaningful ways. More generally, most of the Martial Arts help develop a Christian character by inspiring humility, patience, perseverance, focus, discipline, and respect. Mixed Martial Arts, incorporating the techniques of a variety of Martial Arts, in a sense increases the intensity of the physical and psychological conditioning involved and hence reinforces the general virtues aroused by the individual Martial Art systems to a greater degree. The spiritual implications of MMA training are, as I have discovered by experience, many, and I have plenty more examples and issues that I could discuss in further detail, but I’ll leave it at that.

In terms of viewing MMA matches, I personally don't find it enjoyable when I see two fighters simply trying to destroy each other whilst using very little technique—which I think I made pretty clear in my previous post. MMA is not about brutal force. I enjoy watching fights with a trained eye able to pick up on good methodical and technical movements and maybe even learn a few such moves myself. When we fight at our MMA gym, we are constantly taught not to exert so much force in a punch or kick as if in an attempt to knock the opponent out, but only to employ kicks and punches strategically. The fight should end not because the opponent got knocked unconscious by a power blow to the head, but because he was strategically put into submission—a point at which he is able to tap out before incurring any real injury.

I don't doubt that some enjoy watching MMA just to watch their favourite fighter beat the heck out of the opponent; and I am aware that even in my own MMA centre, some of the guys I train with couldn't give a hoot about strategy or character development, but just want to be to able to kick some butt should they ever get into a street fight. In the end, "to the pure, all things are pure".

Thanks for that explanation. I admit that my prejudice is based in ignorance (as is all prejudice). I love football and even enjoy boxing, and many people who don't understand those sports consider them brutal and barbaric. I am only guessing, but I bet more people have died from boxing than from MMA.

Selam
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« Reply #617 on: November 04, 2009, 02:02:39 AM »

Quote
I am only guessing, but I bet more people have died from boxing than from MMA.

I don't trust the numbers you find through a google search of things like "boxing deaths," but whatever numbers you use, boxing deaths far outnumber the 1-2 MMA deaths that have happened since MMA really took off in the 90's.
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« Reply #618 on: November 04, 2009, 02:57:40 AM »

Quote
I am only guessing, but I bet more people have died from boxing than from MMA.

I don't trust the numbers you find through a google search of things like "boxing deaths," but whatever numbers you use, boxing deaths far outnumber the 1-2 MMA deaths that have happened since MMA really took off in the 90's.

That's what I thought.

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« Reply #619 on: November 04, 2009, 11:36:54 AM »

MMA isn't a sport which is going to be enjoyed by the masses, and if you don't enjoy watching it that is of course fine.  However, to those who consider it barbaric, here is some food for thought: there are a considerable amount more neck injuries, concussions, fractured and broken bones, and deaths in American football each year than there are in MMA (this is including highschool, college, and professional football in comparison to MMA in both amateur and professional promotions).  As Dana White (president of the UFC) often states what is more dangerous than American football. For example, in the NFL you have some of the most atheltic grown men (averaging around 250 pounds or so each) running at full spead colliding with each other; I suppose American football isn't considered as "barbaric" due it surpassing baseball as American's pasttime and perhaps due to the pads and helmet.
I for the most part take the approach of EA.  I am not a fan of fighters just slugging it out, I am a fan of technique.  While watching the fights, I am studying the techniques and seeing how to apply these techniques to my own game.
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« Reply #620 on: November 04, 2009, 12:33:34 PM »

MMA isn't a sport which is going to be enjoyed by the masses, and if you don't enjoy watching it that is of course fine.  However, to those who consider it barbaric, here is some food for thought

MMA will be considered barbaric compared to other forms of sport simply because it takes the underlying contest (the battle of wills for domination and victory) at its most basic level (actual fighting) rather than at a more metaphorical level (football, baseball, soccer, hockey, etc.).  Each sport which takes this contest of wills in a non-metaphorical way (boxing, MMA, wrestling, etc.) gets accused of being "barbaric" (ok, maybe not wrestling - real wrestling - since it is a sport of supreme control).

As for your analysis of MMA versus American Football, consider:
- MMA simply does not have the same numbers of participants or the sheer magnitude of potential benefits as does American Football.  There are thousands of championships to be given out each year on every level; the mass of people who play American Football is tremendous.
- MMA does not have the well-developed very large  but under-supervised lower-amateur class (specifically HS football), where injuries are compounded because of a lack of medical attention, and a lack of self-control (kids going back out to play with a serious concussion, coaches not stopping them).
- An honest evaluation would be apples-apples: professional league vs. professional league, per capita, weighted for contact time.
- Finally, I don't believe anyone has an accurate count on injuries sustained in non-professional MMA; the number of amateur leagues has grown, as have the very amateur "MMA for youtube" type stuff.
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« Reply #621 on: November 04, 2009, 12:50:14 PM »

Fr. George

Fair analysis.  I will state, in my opinion, that sanctioned MMA is stricter than American football when it comes to injuries.  For example, if Tebow got his concussion in an MMA bought, there is no way any sanctioned MMA organization would allow him to compete less than two weeks after his concussion (also, concerning that Florida Gator who eye gouged the Georgia Bulldog, he would likely lose his fighting liscense if he intentionally attempted that in an MMA fight).  I enjoy MMA, I enjoy American football.  If one has a problem watching MMA, quite simply don't watch.  Wink
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« Reply #622 on: November 04, 2009, 01:16:28 PM »

Fr. George

Fair analysis.  I will state, in my opinion, that sanctioned MMA is stricter than American football when it comes to injuries.  For example, if Tebow got his concussion in an MMA bought, there is no way any sanctioned MMA organization would allow him to compete less than two weeks after his concussion (also, concerning that Florida Gator who eye gouged the Georgia Bulldog, he would likely lose his fighting liscense if he intentionally attempted that in an MMA fight).  I enjoy MMA, I enjoy American football.  If one has a problem watching MMA, quite simply don't watch.  Wink

True.  I actually agree with TMQ (Gregg Easterbrook on ESPN Page 2) when he lobbies for the NFL to mandate the newer concussion-reducing helmets for a specific reason: yes, in the NFL the concussion rate is lowering a bit, but in the NFL you also have a multitude of medical professionals on the sideline and an ambulance waiting at the door; in High School and College, which look up to the NFL, you don't, and it is in those areas that concussions are far more rampant than they should be.  He cites in his most recent article (posted yesterday on ESPN.com) that a recent study by a Columbus, OH-based group found that there are thousands of cases of high schoolers returning to the field the same day after sustaining a Grade II or III concussion.  Outrageous.  If the NFL were to start using the double-sided mouthguards & the newer helmets, though, then these items would be adopted by more of these amateur programs that truly need them to keep children safe.
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« Reply #623 on: November 04, 2009, 04:54:54 PM »

Each sport which takes this contest of wills in a non-metaphorical way (boxing, MMA, wrestling, etc.) gets accused of being "barbaric" (ok, maybe not wrestling - real wrestling - since it is a sport of supreme control).

I personally see MMA as a "sport of supreme control"--particularly when it comes to ground grappling. That's why I just don't think UFC does much justice to MMA. It doesn't seem to present MMA as such.
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« Reply #624 on: November 04, 2009, 05:14:20 PM »

Each sport which takes this contest of wills in a non-metaphorical way (boxing, MMA, wrestling, etc.) gets accused of being "barbaric" (ok, maybe not wrestling - real wrestling - since it is a sport of supreme control).

I personally see MMA as a "sport of supreme control"--particularly when it comes to ground grappling. That's why I just don't think UFC does much justice to MMA. It doesn't seem to present MMA as such. 

Ahhh.  Maybe that's the problem then - the most popular presentation of the genre is not the "best," is that correct?  If MMA is like wrestling in that it focuses on controlling the situation - rather than beating the opponent until his wheat and chaff separate - then I would concede that it is likely not barbaric (or, at least, as "not barbaric" as football, baseball, etc.).
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« Reply #625 on: November 04, 2009, 05:35:19 PM »

Each sport which takes this contest of wills in a non-metaphorical way (boxing, MMA, wrestling, etc.) gets accused of being "barbaric" (ok, maybe not wrestling - real wrestling - since it is a sport of supreme control).

I personally see MMA as a "sport of supreme control"--particularly when it comes to ground grappling. That's why I just don't think UFC does much justice to MMA. It doesn't seem to present MMA as such.

I don't see how you can say UFC does much justice to MMA. What MMA org is doing a better job?  MMA is a mixture of multiple kinds of styles so your are not going to just get the technical ground game BJJ matches. Also, a big difference from the early days of the sport is the no gi and the influence of wrestling. I love MMA and love to see both the stand up and the ground game! Your going to get bad matches but your also going to see some great ones!

I can see how "The Ultimate Fighter" is bringin down the quality of the sport. This last few seasons have been a joke and this season in absolutely the worst. It may have jumped the shark.
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« Reply #626 on: November 04, 2009, 05:41:46 PM »

 
Quote
I personally see MMA as a "sport of supreme control"--particularly when it comes to ground grappling. That's why I just don't think UFC does much justice to MMA. It doesn't seem to present MMA as such.

EA,
The way in which the UFC markets itself now-a-days, I would agree with you (that the ground game is less important than striking).  With that said, I'm not sure this is entirely the UFC's fault.
When the Gracie's created the UFC in 1993, the point of the competition was to promote Gracie Jiu-Jitsu (aka Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu).  Royce Gracie, as I'm sure you're aware, was able to defeat much larger opponents, most having backgrounds in a striking art (kickboxing, karate, kung fu), by simply taking his oppenent to the ground and locking in various submissions.  It simply amazed many of those watching to see a skinny Brazilian fighter defeat his opponents, often times without throwing strikes, by chokes and joint manipulation.  Soon after, striking arts were considered somewhat obsolete.
However, some were able to find flaws with bjj (one being the Japanese catch-wrestler Kazushi Sakuraba, aka "the Gracie Hunter"; not to mention Emelianenko Fedor, whose background is Judo and Sambo, who simply destroyed Antônio Rodrigo Nogueira, who at the time was considered the heavyweight with the most talent in bjj, while siting in his guard), and striking arts once more made their presence in MMA.  Overall, I feel that the fighters of today are the most well-rounded fighters to ever compete in MMA.  
Although I love bjj, in some respects it just isn't practicle in a real street fight.  Pulling guard, or attempting arm bars in the streets could potentially lead to the bjj player getting seriously hurt (take for example the fight between Quinton Jackson vs. Ricardo Arona, and what happened to Arona when he attempted a triangle choke; in a street fight Arona would have seriously been injured): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwKpzKZOpe4
Although MMA isn’t a street fight, its roots do come from street fighting.  I’m of the opinion (as is my coach, a former marine and a black belt in bjj under Leo Dalla) that techniques used in MMA should be based in real world (for example, one of my coach’s pet peeves is when two fighters are standing and one of them jumps into guard.  I’ve seen such a technique taught in many MMA gyms, and if one attempted this in a real life situation he/she could seriously be injured due to a slam).
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« Reply #627 on: November 05, 2009, 12:51:50 AM »

Yankees won. Boo! Hiss!  Tongue Grin
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« Reply #628 on: November 05, 2009, 01:22:18 AM »

Woohoo! #27 Baby! Yeah! Way to make things happen! Way to get it done!

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« Reply #629 on: November 05, 2009, 01:39:29 AM »

I will not bow to the evil empire...

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