Author Topic: The Sports Thread  (Read 479997 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Fr. George

  • formerly "Cleveland"
  • Administrator
  • Stratopedarches
  • *******
  • Posts: 20,183
  • May the Lord bless you and keep you always!
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Metropolis of Pittsburgh
Re: The Sports Thread
« Reply #405 on: September 28, 2009, 04:27:00 PM »
Art Modell was an innovator despite what the rest of NE Ohio thinks about him. He innovated by getting out of football at the right time.   ;)

His innovations came well before the departure (MNF, for one).  However, leaving Cleveland was a mistake; they should have expanded into Baltimore - instead, Baltimore inflicted on another city the pain they themselves "went through" (supposedly).
"O Cross of Christ, all-holy, thrice-blessed, and life-giving, instrument of the mystical rites of Zion, the holy Altar for the service of our Great Archpriest, the blessing - the weapon - the strength of priests, our pride, our consolation, the light in our hearts, our mind, and our steps"
Met. Meletios of Nikopolis & Preveza, from his ordination.

Offline SolEX01

  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 12,125
    • Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Metropolis of New Jersey
Re: The Sports Thread
« Reply #406 on: September 28, 2009, 04:38:12 PM »
Art Modell was an innovator despite what the rest of NE Ohio thinks about him. He innovated by getting out of football at the right time.   ;)

His innovations came well before the departure (MNF, for one).  However, leaving Cleveland was a mistake; they should have expanded into Baltimore - instead, Baltimore inflicted on another city the pain they themselves "went through" (supposedly).

The NFL wanted the growing South (e.g. Carolina, Jacksonville) and saw Baltimore as "past its prime."  People in LA love hosting Super Bowls ... without having teams to play for one.

Remember that the NFL is a fraternity of 32 very rich (and in some instances, very old) men.  Art Modell saw how Bob Irsay destroyed a team who had legendary following from the 1958 NFL Championship game and moved it to greener pastures.  Former Giants owner Wellington Mara (with Lombardi trophy in his case) was good friends with Modell.  Five years after moving the team from Cleveland, guess who raised the Lombardi trophy?

If Randy Lerner's GM (former Raven front office man George Kokinis) can't hire and draft competent personnel, whose fault is that?   ???  His predecessor, Phil Savage (another Ravens front office employee), didn't do much better and both of them worked under Ozzie Newsome.  I admit that 3 games isn't a fair shake for Kokinis except he was responsible for the draft and the 0-3 record doesn't bode well with QB controversies and the like.

Offline Jakub

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,749
Re: The Sports Thread
« Reply #407 on: September 28, 2009, 06:58:58 PM »
The Brownies should have kept Romeo, all they got was a snitch...
An old timer is a man who's had a lot of interesting experiences -- some of them true.

Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked anyway, the good fortune to run into the ones I do, and the eyesight to tell the difference.

Offline John of the North

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 3,533
  • Christ is Risen!
Re: The Sports Thread
« Reply #408 on: September 28, 2009, 07:11:01 PM »
J-E-T-S! JETS! JETS! JETS!

Jets?

No, THE NY Jets, as in the NY Jets that spanked TOM BRADY last week, and beat the Titans this week!  ;D  ;D

Oh.
"Christianity is not a philosophy, not a doctrine, but life." - Elder Sophrony (Sakharov)

Offline SolEX01

  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 12,125
    • Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Metropolis of New Jersey
Re: The Sports Thread
« Reply #409 on: September 29, 2009, 01:10:59 PM »
Marty Shottenheimer: mildly successful with, and after, Browns.

Bill Belachoke: Great D coach under Parcells.  Awful with Browns.  "Genius" with Pats (guess the cheating helped a ton).
Bruce Ariens: Great O coach.  Awful with Browns.  "Genius" O coach after.
Romeo Crennel: Great D coach.  Awful with Browns.

What's terrifying: each of the last three made awful coaching decisions, especially in the area of non-expertise, which severely hampered the Browns.  Can't blame it all on personnel.  

The following are examples of one coach and one owner who made a difference in their franchises despite the talent levels they had:

Brian Billick - self-proclaimed offensive genius in Minnesota with a young Randy Moss.  Wins Super Bowl with defense thanks to Ray Lewis.  Runs many QBs into the ground (Elvis Grbac, Tony Banks, Kyle Boller, et al.).  Talks himself out of Baltimore and into Coors commercials.  Three defensive coordinators become head coaches (Jack del Rio, Marvin Lewis and Rex Ryan).  Meltdown by Bart Scott against the Patriots at the end of 2007 is laid at the feet of Billick by owner Steve Bisciotti.  Gave the late Steve McNair one more chance at glory in 2006 except the gas tank ran out on McNair in the playoffs.

Robert Kraft - committed owner who brought the Patriots out of obscurity thanks to Drew Bledsoe's arm in the mid 1990's.  Later received honorary degree from Boston University.

Offline admiralnick

  • Cardinal, Editor for Photogalleries
  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,880
Re: The Sports Thread
« Reply #410 on: September 29, 2009, 03:13:16 PM »
Eric Mangini: 0-3 (was intern for old Cleveland Browns before their move to Baltimore)

That fact seemingly means nothing in the modern NFL.  

Paul Brown: Genius coach, visionary for the NFL (and the importance of the forward pass - see Otto Graham), grandfather of the West-Coast offense (as Bill Walsh's mentor and Head coach in Cincy).  Successful in Cleveland.  Team named after him.

Marty Shottenheimer: mildly successful with, and after, Browns.

Bill Belachoke: Great D coach under Parcells.  Awful with Browns.  "Genius" with Pats (guess the cheating helped a ton).
Bruce Ariens: Great O coach.  Awful with Browns.  "Genius" O coach after.
Romeo Crennel: Great D coach.  Awful with Browns.

What's terrifying: each of the last three made awful coaching decisions, especially in the area of non-expertise, which severely hampered the Browns.  Can't blame it all on personnel.  

Lovie Smith: Average D coordinator, extremely poor head coach.

-Nick
The ORIGINAL: "NULL"

Offline Fr. George

  • formerly "Cleveland"
  • Administrator
  • Stratopedarches
  • *******
  • Posts: 20,183
  • May the Lord bless you and keep you always!
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Metropolis of Pittsburgh
Re: The Sports Thread
« Reply #411 on: September 29, 2009, 04:59:12 PM »
Art Modell was an innovator despite what the rest of NE Ohio thinks about him. He innovated by getting out of football at the right time.   ;)

His innovations came well before the departure (MNF, for one).  However, leaving Cleveland was a mistake; they should have expanded into Baltimore - instead, Baltimore inflicted on another city the pain they themselves "went through" (supposedly).

The NFL wanted the growing South (e.g. Carolina, Jacksonville) and saw Baltimore as "past its prime."  People in LA love hosting Super Bowls ... without having teams to play for one.

Remember that the NFL is a fraternity of 32 very rich (and in some instances, very old) men.  Art Modell saw how Bob Irsay destroyed a team who had legendary following from the 1958 NFL Championship game and moved it to greener pastures.  Former Giants owner Wellington Mara (with Lombardi trophy in his case) was good friends with Modell.  Five years after moving the team from Cleveland, guess who raised the Lombardi trophy?

If Randy Lerner's GM (former Raven front office man George Kokinis) can't hire and draft competent personnel, whose fault is that?   ???  His predecessor, Phil Savage (another Ravens front office employee), didn't do much better and both of them worked under Ozzie Newsome.  I admit that 3 games isn't a fair shake for Kokinis except he was responsible for the draft and the 0-3 record doesn't bode well with QB controversies and the like.

The only think I fault Kokinis for is not cleaning house and starting anew; but, unfortunately, in Cleveland we're tired of coaches/GMs "rebuilding" every other year since the return.  Otherwise, I don't think one can judge a coach & GM until they've been in for 3 years.
"O Cross of Christ, all-holy, thrice-blessed, and life-giving, instrument of the mystical rites of Zion, the holy Altar for the service of our Great Archpriest, the blessing - the weapon - the strength of priests, our pride, our consolation, the light in our hearts, our mind, and our steps"
Met. Meletios of Nikopolis & Preveza, from his ordination.

Offline SolEX01

  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 12,125
    • Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Metropolis of New Jersey
Re: The Sports Thread
« Reply #412 on: September 29, 2009, 06:47:57 PM »
The only think I fault Kokinis for is not cleaning house and starting anew; but, unfortunately, in Cleveland we're tired of coaches/GMs "rebuilding" every other year since the return.  Otherwise, I don't think one can judge a coach & GM until they've been in for 3 years.

Sometimes, disciplining one player sets the tone for the entire franchise (e.g. Chris McCallister, former Raven, hasn't played anywhere else).

Jim Harbaugh could have been steamrolled; Instead, Ozzie Newsome drafted some potent offensive weapons for him (and Offensive coordinator Cam Cameron, coming off 1-15 record as Dolphins coach in 2007) just as he did for Billick on defense (Suggs, Ngata, Reed, Scott).

In this 24 hour sports news cycle, 3 years may be too long.  If only Cleveland fans can wait and see what tunes Mangini/Kokinis will sing.   :o

Offline Jakub

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,749
Re: The Sports Thread
« Reply #413 on: September 29, 2009, 10:51:13 PM »
Washington is in worst shape than the Brownies...
An old timer is a man who's had a lot of interesting experiences -- some of them true.

Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked anyway, the good fortune to run into the ones I do, and the eyesight to tell the difference.

Offline SolEX01

  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 12,125
    • Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Metropolis of New Jersey
Re: The Sports Thread
« Reply #414 on: September 29, 2009, 11:23:16 PM »
Washington is in worst shape than the Brownies...

I always felt that owner Dan Snyder should coach the team, be the GM, do everything.  The man can't delegate nor does he know anything besides getting out before the tech bust of 1999.

Maybe the Redskins and DC United merge into a UEFA Champions League competitor on US soil....

Offline Jakub

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,749
Re: The Sports Thread
« Reply #415 on: September 29, 2009, 11:30:16 PM »
What a threesome, Davis , Jones and Snyder...sounds like a darn law firm

I dislike lawyers as much as politicians...
An old timer is a man who's had a lot of interesting experiences -- some of them true.

Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked anyway, the good fortune to run into the ones I do, and the eyesight to tell the difference.

Offline Gebre Menfes Kidus

  • "SERVANT of The HOLY SPIRIT"
  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 8,668
  • "Lord Have Mercy on Me a Sinner!"
    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?ref=profile&id=1456515775
Re: The Sports Thread
« Reply #416 on: September 29, 2009, 11:39:38 PM »
Pro football....    Yaaaaawwwwwnnnnnnn ::)


Selam
"There are two great tragedies: one is to live a life ruled by the passions, and the other is to live a passionless life."
Selam, +GMK+

Offline SolEX01

  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 12,125
    • Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Metropolis of New Jersey
Re: The Sports Thread
« Reply #417 on: September 29, 2009, 11:48:40 PM »
Pro football....    Yaaaaawwwwwnnnnnnn ::)

College football.... Yaaaawwwwwwnnnnnn

The last exciting moment in College football was the Boise State player proposing to his cheerleader girlfriend after his team upset Oklahoma.

I can't wait to see Tim Tebow in the NFL, if he bothers to enter the draft.

Offline Gebre Menfes Kidus

  • "SERVANT of The HOLY SPIRIT"
  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 8,668
  • "Lord Have Mercy on Me a Sinner!"
    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?ref=profile&id=1456515775
Re: The Sports Thread
« Reply #418 on: September 30, 2009, 01:19:18 AM »
Pro football....    Yaaaaawwwwwnnnnnnn ::)

College football.... Yaaaawwwwwwnnnnnn

The last exciting moment in College football was the Boise State player proposing to his cheerleader girlfriend after his team upset Oklahoma.

I can't wait to see Tim Tebow in the NFL, if he bothers to enter the draft.

To each his own.

Selam
"There are two great tragedies: one is to live a life ruled by the passions, and the other is to live a passionless life."
Selam, +GMK+

Offline SolEX01

  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 12,125
    • Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Metropolis of New Jersey
Re: The Sports Thread
« Reply #419 on: September 30, 2009, 02:12:34 AM »
To each his own.

If they pay college football players, then I'll care a little more about college football.

Navy football is exciting - one bad conversion attempt from tying OSU.   ;D

Offline PeterTheAleut

  • The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
  • Section Moderator
  • Hypatos
  • *****
  • Posts: 33,661
  • Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Re: The Sports Thread
« Reply #420 on: September 30, 2009, 03:43:07 AM »
Pro football....    Yaaaaawwwwwnnnnnnn ::)

College football.... Yaaaawwwwwwnnnnnn

The last exciting moment in College football was the Boise State player proposing to his cheerleader girlfriend after his team upset Oklahoma.

I can't wait to see Tim Tebow in the NFL, if he bothers to enter the draft.
First, he needs to recover from getting his bell rung last Saturday.  Man, he took a nasty hit!
Not all who wander are lost.

Offline coptic orthodox boy

  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 449
Re: The Sports Thread
« Reply #421 on: September 30, 2009, 11:54:55 AM »
Besides myself, any NFL fans here not too fond of Roger Goodell?  Watering down the sport (turn on Sportscenter Monday morning and hear about half-a-dozen fined players for "playing the game too rough"), the blackouts for some teams during these tough economic times, allowing London to host 1 (and soon to be 2) regular season games (why not try to expand into Canada and Mexico where some of the population of these countries actually care about the NFL?) and the shocking rumors of possibly holding a Super Bowl in London in the near future (could you imagine those on the West coast starting their Super Bowl parites at 11 a.m.?).  The man makes me more frustrated than Snyder.

Offline SolEX01

  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 12,125
    • Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Metropolis of New Jersey
Re: The Sports Thread
« Reply #422 on: September 30, 2009, 01:09:01 PM »
First, he needs to recover from getting his bell rung last Saturday.  Man, he took a nasty hit!

There are a lot of 300 lb defensive lineman waiting for Tim Tebow to take a snap for the Redskins, Browns or whoever has the #1 pick.  Roger Goddell can give Tebow a dispensation to wear the red "no contact" shirt during NFL games as long as he doesn't run the ball.   ::)

Offline Fr. George

  • formerly "Cleveland"
  • Administrator
  • Stratopedarches
  • *******
  • Posts: 20,183
  • May the Lord bless you and keep you always!
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Metropolis of Pittsburgh
Re: The Sports Thread
« Reply #423 on: September 30, 2009, 01:21:44 PM »
First, he needs to recover from getting his bell rung last Saturday.  Man, he took a nasty hit!

There are a lot of 300 lb defensive lineman waiting for Tim Tebow to take a snap for the Redskins, Browns or whoever has the #1 pick.  Roger Goddell can give Tebow a dispensation to wear the red "no contact" shirt during NFL games as long as he doesn't run the ball.   ::)

I don't know if I'd want him here in Cleveland.  Let him prove he's a great passer (not merely "getting by"), first.
"O Cross of Christ, all-holy, thrice-blessed, and life-giving, instrument of the mystical rites of Zion, the holy Altar for the service of our Great Archpriest, the blessing - the weapon - the strength of priests, our pride, our consolation, the light in our hearts, our mind, and our steps"
Met. Meletios of Nikopolis & Preveza, from his ordination.

Offline SolEX01

  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 12,125
    • Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Metropolis of New Jersey
Re: The Sports Thread
« Reply #424 on: September 30, 2009, 01:32:39 PM »
There are a lot of 300 lb defensive lineman waiting for Tim Tebow to take a snap for the Redskins, Browns or whoever has the #1 pick.  Roger Goddell can give Tebow a dispensation to wear the red "no contact" shirt during NFL games as long as he doesn't run the ball.   ::)

I don't know if I'd want him here in Cleveland.  Let him prove he's a great passer (not merely "getting by"), first.

Well, big men at QB haven't fared well in the NFL.  The big man (Jared Lorenzen, undrafted free agent in 2004) who was QB at Kentucky put up great numbers and was too slow for NFL game speed.  Byron Leftwich (7th pick in 2003 Draft) is a big QB with some speed who has stuck around for a number of years.

I think of Gino Toretta (7th round pick in 1993 Draft) every time I see Tebow.  Toretta has one career TD pass....

Offline coptic orthodox boy

  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 449
Re: The Sports Thread
« Reply #425 on: September 30, 2009, 01:58:28 PM »
SolEX01

I don't think the Redskins would draft Tebow.  His legendary status is really only in the southeast, I don't think to many in the D.C. area know of/care about Tebow.  From what I hear, the Jags are hoping to get Tebow in the 2010 draft; keep the local hero in Northern Florida.

Offline Fr. George

  • formerly "Cleveland"
  • Administrator
  • Stratopedarches
  • *******
  • Posts: 20,183
  • May the Lord bless you and keep you always!
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Metropolis of Pittsburgh
Re: The Sports Thread
« Reply #426 on: September 30, 2009, 02:08:09 PM »
SolEX01

I don't think the Redskins would draft Tebow.  His legendary status is really only in the southeast, I don't think to many in the D.C. area know of/care about Tebow.  From what I hear, the Jags are hoping to get Tebow in the 2010 draft; keep the local hero in Northern Florida.

A lot of good he's going to do them.  In this day and age, it's actually better to have not won a National Title once you've gotten to the NFL (Manning(s), Rothlesburger, Brady - 0 National Titles; College title-winner = Also-ran in today's NFL).
"O Cross of Christ, all-holy, thrice-blessed, and life-giving, instrument of the mystical rites of Zion, the holy Altar for the service of our Great Archpriest, the blessing - the weapon - the strength of priests, our pride, our consolation, the light in our hearts, our mind, and our steps"
Met. Meletios of Nikopolis & Preveza, from his ordination.

Offline PeterTheAleut

  • The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
  • Section Moderator
  • Hypatos
  • *****
  • Posts: 33,661
  • Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Re: The Sports Thread
« Reply #427 on: September 30, 2009, 03:21:59 PM »
SolEX01

I don't think the Redskins would draft Tebow.  His legendary status is really only in the southeast, I don't think to many in the D.C. area know of/care about Tebow.  From what I hear, the Jags are hoping to get Tebow in the 2010 draft; keep the local hero in Northern Florida.

A lot of good he's going to do them.  In this day and age, it's actually better to have not won a National Title once you've gotten to the NFL (Manning(s), Rothlesburger, Brady - 0 National Titles; College title-winner = Also-ran in today's NFL).
There's probably some truth to that.  I've seen a number of top-of-the-draft QB's turn out to be busts in the NFL (think Joey Harrington) in part because the lousy franchises that drafted them did little to really develop them for the NFL game, didn't have the personnel to protect them (i.e., good pass blockers), or put too much pressure on them for instant success.  There's probably also the factor that what often makes for a superstar college QB today doesn't translate very well to success in the NFL because of differences in offensive styles.
Not all who wander are lost.

Offline SolEX01

  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 12,125
    • Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Metropolis of New Jersey
Re: The Sports Thread
« Reply #428 on: September 30, 2009, 03:53:21 PM »
There's probably some truth to that.  I've seen a number of top-of-the-draft QB's turn out to be busts in the NFL (think Joey Harrington) in part because the lousy franchises that drafted them did little to really develop them for the NFL game, didn't have the personnel to protect them (i.e., good pass blockers), or put too much pressure on them for instant success.  There's probably also the factor that what often makes for a superstar college QB today doesn't translate very well to success in the NFL because of differences in offensive styles.

Compare and Contrast: Ravens and Lions 1st round draft picks since 1996.

Ravens: 9 of their first round draft picks are still with team.  Two are a retired future hall of famers (Ogden, Boulware).  One is nearing retirement (J. Lewis).  One is a backup for the Rams (Boller).  A few are out of football (T. Taylor, C. McCallister, D. Starks).  With the exception of R. Lewis legal problems in Atlanta early in his career, the Ravens first round picks have stayed out of legal trouble.

Lions: Three offensive tackles, Four wide receivers, three outside linebackers and two cornerbacks plus Matthew Stafford and Joey Harrington.

I'm sure every team wishes to draft the best player on the board when their turn comes up; however, some teams do a better job analyzing talent than others.  It all goes back to Pop Warner when team A beats team B 99-0.   ;D

Offline PeterTheAleut

  • The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
  • Section Moderator
  • Hypatos
  • *****
  • Posts: 33,661
  • Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Re: The Sports Thread
« Reply #429 on: September 30, 2009, 05:26:11 PM »
There's probably some truth to that.  I've seen a number of top-of-the-draft QB's turn out to be busts in the NFL (think Joey Harrington) in part because the lousy franchises that drafted them did little to really develop them for the NFL game, didn't have the personnel to protect them (i.e., good pass blockers), or put too much pressure on them for instant success.  There's probably also the factor that what often makes for a superstar college QB today doesn't translate very well to success in the NFL because of differences in offensive styles.

Compare and Contrast: Ravens and Lions 1st round draft picks since 1996.

Ravens: 9 of their first round draft picks are still with team.  Two are a retired future hall of famers (Ogden, Boulware).  One is nearing retirement (J. Lewis).  One is a backup for the Rams (Boller).  A few are out of football (T. Taylor, C. McCallister, D. Starks).  With the exception of R. Lewis legal problems in Atlanta early in his career, the Ravens first round picks have stayed out of legal trouble.

Lions: Three offensive tackles, Four wide receivers, three outside linebackers and two cornerbacks plus Matthew Stafford and Joey Harrington.

I'm sure every team wishes to draft the best player on the board when their turn comes up; however, some teams do a better job analyzing talent than others.  It all goes back to Pop Warner when team A beats team B 99-0.   ;D
You've not told us anything about the players the Lions drafted in the first round, except for the positions they played and the names of the two QBs.  You've not said anything about how they did in the NFL, how long they played for their original team (the Lions), or even how they did at staying out of legal trouble while in the league.  Are you assuming that we already know about these things?  If not, you're not giving us enough information to be able to make a valid comparison between Detroit's first round draft picks and Baltimore's.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2009, 05:33:42 PM by PeterTheAleut »
Not all who wander are lost.

Offline Gebre Menfes Kidus

  • "SERVANT of The HOLY SPIRIT"
  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 8,668
  • "Lord Have Mercy on Me a Sinner!"
    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?ref=profile&id=1456515775
Re: The Sports Thread
« Reply #430 on: September 30, 2009, 06:58:29 PM »
To each his own.

If they pay college football players, then I'll care a little more about college football.

Navy football is exciting - one bad conversion attempt from tying OSU.   ;D

Navy is exciting. Another example of why college football is so great. College players play for pride and tradition. How ridiculous is it that guys like Terrell Owens and Randy Moss make millions of dollars and only play hard when they feel like it. But that's pro sports. Fans who pay their hard earned money to watch it are suckers in my opinion. But that's just me.

Selam
"There are two great tragedies: one is to live a life ruled by the passions, and the other is to live a passionless life."
Selam, +GMK+

Offline SolEX01

  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 12,125
    • Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Metropolis of New Jersey
Re: The Sports Thread
« Reply #431 on: September 30, 2009, 07:50:06 PM »
Compare and Contrast: Ravens and Lions 1st round draft picks since 1996.

Ravens: 9 of their first round draft picks are still with team.  Two are a retired future hall of famers (Ogden, Boulware).  One is nearing retirement (J. Lewis).  One is a backup for the Rams (Boller).  A few are out of football (T. Taylor, C. McCallister, D. Starks).  With the exception of R. Lewis legal problems in Atlanta early in his career, the Ravens first round picks have stayed out of legal trouble.

Lions: Three offensive tackles, Four wide receivers, three outside linebackers and two cornerbacks plus Matthew Stafford and Joey Harrington.

I'm sure every team wishes to draft the best player on the board when their turn comes up; however, some teams do a better job analyzing talent than others.  It all goes back to Pop Warner when team A beats team B 99-0.   ;D
You've not told us anything about the players the Lions drafted in the first round, except for the positions they played and the names of the two QBs.  You've not said anything about how they did in the NFL, how long they played for their original team (the Lions), or even how they did at staying out of legal trouble while in the league.  Are you assuming that we already know about these things?  If not, you're not giving us enough information to be able to make a valid comparison between Detroit's first round draft picks and Baltimore's.

You're right.  :-[ Wikipedia didn't have an entry on Detroit Lions first round draft picks like they did for the Ravens and I could speak for the Ravens' legal problems based on my knowledge of living in the area.

Suffice to say that the Ravens have done a better job drafting players in the last 14 years than the Detroit Lions as evident by won/loss records, team stability, etc.  I could have used Cincinnati's 1st round picks as an equivalent example.

Offline SolEX01

  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 12,125
    • Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Metropolis of New Jersey
Re: The Sports Thread
« Reply #432 on: September 30, 2009, 08:05:00 PM »
To each his own.

If they pay college football players, then I'll care a little more about college football.

Navy football is exciting - one bad conversion attempt from tying OSU.   ;D

Navy is exciting. Another example of why college football is so great. College players play for pride and tradition.

Navy is 2-2, better than most college and Pro teams in the DC metro area besides those 3-1 Va. Tech Hokies.   :D

How ridiculous is it that guys like Terrell Owens and Randy Moss make millions of dollars and only play hard when they feel like it. But that's pro sports. Fans who pay their hard earned money to watch it are suckers in my opinion. But that's just me.

I agree with your sentiments exactly.  I've never seen the Ravens in the 14 years they have been in town.  I've only been in M&T Bank Stadium exactly once ... for a high school football game.

I may have seen the Terps play once in the late 1990's and I saw my alma mater twice before the President dropped the team in 1996.

Offline PeterTheAleut

  • The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
  • Section Moderator
  • Hypatos
  • *****
  • Posts: 33,661
  • Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Re: The Sports Thread
« Reply #433 on: September 30, 2009, 08:07:59 PM »
Compare and Contrast: Ravens and Lions 1st round draft picks since 1996.

Ravens: 9 of their first round draft picks are still with team.  Two are a retired future hall of famers (Ogden, Boulware).  One is nearing retirement (J. Lewis).  One is a backup for the Rams (Boller).  A few are out of football (T. Taylor, C. McCallister, D. Starks).  With the exception of R. Lewis legal problems in Atlanta early in his career, the Ravens first round picks have stayed out of legal trouble.

Lions: Three offensive tackles, Four wide receivers, three outside linebackers and two cornerbacks plus Matthew Stafford and Joey Harrington.

I'm sure every team wishes to draft the best player on the board when their turn comes up; however, some teams do a better job analyzing talent than others.  It all goes back to Pop Warner when team A beats team B 99-0.   ;D
You've not told us anything about the players the Lions drafted in the first round, except for the positions they played and the names of the two QBs.  You've not said anything about how they did in the NFL, how long they played for their original team (the Lions), or even how they did at staying out of legal trouble while in the league.  Are you assuming that we already know about these things?  If not, you're not giving us enough information to be able to make a valid comparison between Detroit's first round draft picks and Baltimore's.

You're right.  :-[ Wikipedia didn't have an entry on Detroit Lions first round draft picks like they did for the Ravens and I could speak for the Ravens' legal problems based on my knowledge of living in the area.

Suffice to say that the Ravens have done a better job drafting players in the last 14 years than the Detroit Lions as evident by won/loss records, team stability, etc.  I could have used Cincinnati's 1st round picks as an equivalent example.
Yet these indicators are not dependent solely on quality of drafting decisions, partly because teams aren't assembled through the draft alone.

What about coaching as a factor in team success, for instance?  Together with coaching, I think we also need to consider how a team's front office supports the coaching staff.  Is a franchise willing to hire one coach and stick with him for a few years, or are they motivated by the "WIN NOW OR ELSE!" mentality that seems to have infected so many teams today?
Not all who wander are lost.

Offline Fr. George

  • formerly "Cleveland"
  • Administrator
  • Stratopedarches
  • *******
  • Posts: 20,183
  • May the Lord bless you and keep you always!
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Metropolis of Pittsburgh
Re: The Sports Thread
« Reply #434 on: September 30, 2009, 08:20:26 PM »
Compare and Contrast: Ravens and Lions 1st round draft picks since 1996.

Ravens: 9 of their first round draft picks are still with team.  Two are a retired future hall of famers (Ogden, Boulware).  One is nearing retirement (J. Lewis).  One is a backup for the Rams (Boller).  A few are out of football (T. Taylor, C. McCallister, D. Starks).  With the exception of R. Lewis legal problems in Atlanta early in his career, the Ravens first round picks have stayed out of legal trouble.

Lions: Three offensive tackles, Four wide receivers, three outside linebackers and two cornerbacks plus Matthew Stafford and Joey Harrington.

I'm sure every team wishes to draft the best player on the board when their turn comes up; however, some teams do a better job analyzing talent than others.  It all goes back to Pop Warner when team A beats team B 99-0.   ;D
You've not told us anything about the players the Lions drafted in the first round, except for the positions they played and the names of the two QBs.  You've not said anything about how they did in the NFL, how long they played for their original team (the Lions), or even how they did at staying out of legal trouble while in the league.  Are you assuming that we already know about these things?  If not, you're not giving us enough information to be able to make a valid comparison between Detroit's first round draft picks and Baltimore's.

You're right.  :-[ Wikipedia didn't have an entry on Detroit Lions first round draft picks like they did for the Ravens and I could speak for the Ravens' legal problems based on my knowledge of living in the area.

Suffice to say that the Ravens have done a better job drafting players in the last 14 years than the Detroit Lions as evident by won/loss records, team stability, etc.  I could have used Cincinnati's 1st round picks as an equivalent example.

1 Lion beats all your Ravens: Barry Sanders.
"O Cross of Christ, all-holy, thrice-blessed, and life-giving, instrument of the mystical rites of Zion, the holy Altar for the service of our Great Archpriest, the blessing - the weapon - the strength of priests, our pride, our consolation, the light in our hearts, our mind, and our steps"
Met. Meletios of Nikopolis & Preveza, from his ordination.

Offline Fr. George

  • formerly "Cleveland"
  • Administrator
  • Stratopedarches
  • *******
  • Posts: 20,183
  • May the Lord bless you and keep you always!
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Metropolis of Pittsburgh
Re: The Sports Thread
« Reply #435 on: September 30, 2009, 08:25:55 PM »
Navy is exciting. Another example of why college football is so great. College players play for pride and tradition.

Well - College Football is so great/exciting because you've got a limited legitimate talent pool diffused across 117 D1 teams; most games are driven by the strategy more than the personnel.  Only the elite national powerhouse recruiting teams win despite strategy through their superior talent.  (And the cream of the crop win with both.)

How ridiculous is it that guys like Terrell Owens and Randy Moss make millions of dollars and only play hard when they feel like it. But that's pro sports. Fans who pay their hard earned money to watch it are suckers in my opinion. But that's just me.

I don't know if "only play hard when they feel like it" is exactly accurate, or at least accurate in tone; more like "they take breaks when they want to," since they do play hard most of the time.  Like any team game, their hard work (or non-work, whatever the case may be) can and frequently is mitigated by the efforts, successes, and failures of the teammates (especially in these cases, since they both utterly depend on someone else to get them the ball).  They're certainly not poster children for on-field work ethic at all times (although Moss is much better about it than he used to be; TO has a great off-field workout routine and discipline, though), but they are talented, and amongst the best in history (statistically) at their positions.
"O Cross of Christ, all-holy, thrice-blessed, and life-giving, instrument of the mystical rites of Zion, the holy Altar for the service of our Great Archpriest, the blessing - the weapon - the strength of priests, our pride, our consolation, the light in our hearts, our mind, and our steps"
Met. Meletios of Nikopolis & Preveza, from his ordination.

Offline Jakub

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,749
Re: The Sports Thread
« Reply #436 on: September 30, 2009, 08:46:54 PM »
What, no baseball play off talk ?  All I hear are crickets...
An old timer is a man who's had a lot of interesting experiences -- some of them true.

Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked anyway, the good fortune to run into the ones I do, and the eyesight to tell the difference.

Offline coptic orthodox boy

  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 449
Re: The Sports Thread
« Reply #437 on: September 30, 2009, 08:49:09 PM »
Gebre Menfes Kidus

Come on man, some teams in the NFL have great history and tradition like some college teams: The Packers, the Redskins (well the NFC East in general), the Steelers, and DA Bears (on a side note and a bit of a rant, a few months ago I was watching NFL network where one of the commentators was discussing which 5 franchises have "the most loyal and best fan bases."  His 5 choices were the Packers (agreed), the Giants (erm...I don't know about that; baseball is #1 in New York not to mention the AFL was able to build a team in the Giants' backyard), the Eagels (surely the most abnoxious, not even close to the most loyal), the Steelers (agreed), and the Patriots (since when?  Brady started winning Super Bowls?).  My top five would be. 1. Packers, 2. Steelers, 3. Redskins, 4. Bears, 5. Broncos).  I mean look at the Redskins: a long standing tradition, a band (like many college teams), a fight song, and a huge stadium (lol).
I am a fan of both college and professional football (though I prefer the speed of the pro game).  With that said, the entire BCS thing is a turnoff.  There really is never any post-season drama, just a bunch of bowl games that nobody really cares about.  I think instituting a playoff system in college football is really a must.

Oh, and Jakub a video I saw today; I found it quite funny:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=om_yq4L3M_I

Offline HandmaidenofGod

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 3,397
  • O Holy St. Demetrius pray to God for us!
Re: The Sports Thread
« Reply #438 on: September 30, 2009, 08:56:19 PM »
What, no baseball play off talk ?  All I hear are crickets...


Funny, that's the same sound I hear whenever I sit down to watch a baseball game.

Baseball is great for an afternoon nap. It's a snoozer of a game, and is boooooooooring!
"For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the LORD, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope." Jer 29:11

Offline coptic orthodox boy

  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 449
Re: The Sports Thread
« Reply #439 on: September 30, 2009, 08:58:53 PM »
Also, the 2009 NHL season just started.  Let's go Caps, the only hope for those living in the D.C. area lol!

Offline Gebre Menfes Kidus

  • "SERVANT of The HOLY SPIRIT"
  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 8,668
  • "Lord Have Mercy on Me a Sinner!"
    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?ref=profile&id=1456515775
Re: The Sports Thread
« Reply #440 on: September 30, 2009, 09:28:26 PM »
Navy is exciting. Another example of why college football is so great. College players play for pride and tradition.

Well - College Football is so great/exciting because you've got a limited legitimate talent pool diffused across 117 D1 teams; most games are driven by the strategy more than the personnel.  Only the elite national powerhouse recruiting teams win despite strategy through their superior talent.  (And the cream of the crop win with both.)

How ridiculous is it that guys like Terrell Owens and Randy Moss make millions of dollars and only play hard when they feel like it. But that's pro sports. Fans who pay their hard earned money to watch it are suckers in my opinion. But that's just me.

I don't know if "only play hard when they feel like it" is exactly accurate, or at least accurate in tone; more like "they take breaks when they want to," since they do play hard most of the time.  Like any team game, their hard work (or non-work, whatever the case may be) can and frequently is mitigated by the efforts, successes, and failures of the teammates (especially in these cases, since they both utterly depend on someone else to get them the ball).  They're certainly not poster children for on-field work ethic at all times (although Moss is much better about it than he used to be; TO has a great off-field workout routine and discipline, though), but they are talented, and amongst the best in history (statistically) at their positions.

I don't fault the players too much, because they are victims of the system. It takes a person of extremely exceptional character to exert 100% effort at all times while playing on a team that is say 0-8. Why should they risk injury or tire themself out when they will be a multi-millionaire regardless? Michael Jordan was an exception to the rule. He always played with the same passion regardless of the score or the teams record. His money and fame never crippled his competitive spirit.

But college players are always subject to the loss of their scholarship. They play for pride, and they play for an opportunity to get to the next level. Rarely does a player transfer to another team, so the spirit of loyalty is paramount in college athletics. But in the pros, rivalries and team pride are always secondary to an individual's salary.

Selam
"There are two great tragedies: one is to live a life ruled by the passions, and the other is to live a passionless life."
Selam, +GMK+

Offline Jakub

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,749
Re: The Sports Thread
« Reply #441 on: September 30, 2009, 09:57:26 PM »
Oh, and Jakub a video I saw today; I found it quite funny:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=om_yq4L3M_I



May George rest in peace...ah the good old days

I played Little League and High School ball...though not as a noted jock like Al Bundy
An old timer is a man who's had a lot of interesting experiences -- some of them true.

Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked anyway, the good fortune to run into the ones I do, and the eyesight to tell the difference.

Offline SolEX01

  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 12,125
    • Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Metropolis of New Jersey
Re: The Sports Thread
« Reply #442 on: September 30, 2009, 10:37:10 PM »
1 Lion beats all your Ravens: Barry Sanders.

If only Barry Sanders played for Denver his entire career.   ::)

Offline Gebre Menfes Kidus

  • "SERVANT of The HOLY SPIRIT"
  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 8,668
  • "Lord Have Mercy on Me a Sinner!"
    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?ref=profile&id=1456515775
Re: The Sports Thread
« Reply #443 on: October 01, 2009, 12:10:48 AM »
1 Lion beats all your Ravens: Barry Sanders.

If only Barry Sanders played for Denver his entire career.   ::)

Barry Sanders... Now there's a guy who gave it 100% all the time!!! He never slacked off all those years that he played for a losing team.

Walter Payton was another true warrior. All out all the time.

Not many like that around today.

Selam
"There are two great tragedies: one is to live a life ruled by the passions, and the other is to live a passionless life."
Selam, +GMK+

Offline John of the North

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 3,533
  • Christ is Risen!
Re: The Sports Thread
« Reply #444 on: October 01, 2009, 01:40:13 AM »
The Eskimos need to get their act together...and quickly!
"Christianity is not a philosophy, not a doctrine, but life." - Elder Sophrony (Sakharov)

Offline Pravoslavbob

  • Section Moderator
  • Archon
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,204
  • Distressed about my country
Re: The Sports Thread
« Reply #445 on: October 01, 2009, 04:46:41 PM »
^  I saw part of that game with the Rough Riders.  I like the Eskies but I would probably always choose the 'Riders first.   ;D  (Sorry.)  It's amazing how big the CFL is in Western Canada!  It also has quite a pedigree in Hamilton (which is my first team, although I don't watch much now or expect the Ticats to do that well  ;D).
Religion is a disease, and Orthodoxy is its cure.

Offline Pravoslavbob

  • Section Moderator
  • Archon
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,204
  • Distressed about my country
Re: The Sports Thread
« Reply #446 on: October 01, 2009, 05:19:26 PM »
Wow....you don't see this every day!  :o

Cincinnati, OH (Sports Network) - Pitcher Chris Carpenter enjoyed a career day at the plate, hitting a grand slam and driving in six, as the St. Louis Cardinals routed the Cincinnati Reds, 13-0, in finale of a three-game series.

http://www.tsn.ca/mlb/story/?id=293333
Religion is a disease, and Orthodoxy is its cure.

Offline PeterTheAleut

  • The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
  • Section Moderator
  • Hypatos
  • *****
  • Posts: 33,661
  • Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Re: The Sports Thread
« Reply #447 on: October 01, 2009, 05:55:25 PM »
Wow....you don't see this every day!  :o

Cincinnati, OH (Sports Network) - Pitcher Chris Carpenter enjoyed a career day at the plate, hitting a grand slam and driving in six, as the St. Louis Cardinals routed the Cincinnati Reds, 13-0, in finale of a three-game series.

http://www.tsn.ca/mlb/story/?id=293333
Well, the first NL player to ever hit two grand slams in a single game was a pitcher. :)
Not all who wander are lost.

Offline coptic orthodox boy

  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 449
Re: The Sports Thread
« Reply #448 on: October 01, 2009, 10:52:38 PM »
Forget moving the Bills to Toronto!  Let the CFL and NFL merge.  8 CFL teams; 8 divisions in the NFL; 1 team to each division and the NFL has its foot in Canada. :laugh:

Offline John of the North

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 3,533
  • Christ is Risen!
Re: The Sports Thread
« Reply #449 on: October 02, 2009, 01:34:54 AM »
Forget moving the Bills to Toronto!  Let the CFL and NFL merge.  8 CFL teams; 8 divisions in the NFL; 1 team to each division and the NFL has its foot in Canada. :laugh:

Tell me you are joking....


On a side note, the large amount of Madden I have played this week has shown me how insanely hard three-down football would really be....
"Christianity is not a philosophy, not a doctrine, but life." - Elder Sophrony (Sakharov)