OrthodoxChristianity.net
December 22, 2014, 07:02:07 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 »   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: The Sports Thread  (Read 438303 times) Average Rating: 5
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
PeterTheAleut
The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
Section Moderator
Protospatharios
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 33,175


Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!


« Reply #2655 on: January 22, 2012, 07:33:18 PM »

I don't know why I'm even wasting my time here trying to respond to the idiocy of anyone who states that Michael Lordan isn't the best player of all time. But I'll do so anyway, just because some things are too stupid to go unchallenged.

If you want to argue with these facts, then good luck:

1. He won 6 NBA Titles
2. Jordan had no weaknesses in his game.
3. He had a great Jump shot.
4. He could use either hand, able to go to his left as well as his right.
5. He was a great ball handler.
6. He was a great rebounder.
7. Best driving ability ever.
8. Excellent defender (he led the league in steals more than once, and was named defensive player of the year. He was also a great shot blocker.)
9. He made his teammates better (just ask anyone who played with him.)
4. He possessed a wonderful basketball IQ.
5. He had an unparralleled work ethic.
6. His competitive streak was next to none.

You can cite Oscar Robertson's stats all day long (and they were quite amazing), but if you and I had the same 4 players going against each other, I'd gladly take Jordan in his prime over Oscar in his prime to add to my four any day of the week.

As for Magic, he's one of the top five of all time in my book. But he had weaknesses in his game. He wasn't a great defender, and he didn't have a great jump shot.

Jordan was the best that there's ever been, and I think the best that there will ever be. Like I said, there was not a weakness in his game whatsoever. He possessed the perfect combination of raw athleticism, fundamental precision, and all the intangibles. And BTW, the idea that he was a selfish player is absurd. You don't win 6 NBA titles by being selfish. Very early in his career he may have been a bit of a ball hog, but that's only because he had to be. He had no one around him then. But he matured quickly and placed complete trust in role players like John Paxon, Steve Kerr, and B.J. Armstrong- guys who would have been nothing without Jordan.

Anyway, I just had to set the record straight.  Wink


Selam


What's really stupid is that you think it the worst of blasphemous heresies to disagree with any argument that Michael Jordan was the best player ever. Basketball is a team game, which Jordan never really seemed to appreciate, not even in his HOF induction speech, where he spent more time blasting those who dissed him in the past (e.g., the high school coach who cut him from the team) than actually thanking those who helped him become successful. If basketball were merely a game of one-on-one, then maybe your arguments would have merit, but it ain't and they don't.
Logged
biro
Excelsior
Site Supporter
Moderated
Hoplitarches
*****
Online Online

Posts: 14,699



WWW
« Reply #2656 on: January 22, 2012, 07:34:27 PM »

Go Giants!  Smiley
Logged
PeterTheAleut
The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
Section Moderator
Protospatharios
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 33,175


Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!


« Reply #2657 on: January 22, 2012, 07:36:42 PM »

Jordan ain't just a river in Egypt. Roll Eyes
Jordan ain't a river in Egypt.
Logged
Shiny
Site Supporter
Moderated
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Groucho Marxist
Jurisdiction: Dahntahn Stoop Haus
Posts: 13,267


Paint It Red


« Reply #2658 on: January 22, 2012, 07:48:38 PM »

I called it at Thanksgiving and the miraculous pieces just keep falling together..



Ravens-49ers, its a Harbaugh brothers Superbowl this year..
NOPE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Logged

“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”

– St. Ambrose of Milan
christian7777
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Christian
Posts: 288


« Reply #2659 on: January 22, 2012, 08:51:44 PM »

1. He won 6 NBA Titles

Bill Russell won 11, Sam Jones won 10, Tom Heinsohn won 8, K.C. Jones won 8, John Havlicek won 8, Bob Cousy won 6, and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar won 6.

2. Jordan had no weaknesses in his game.

That being said, he wasn't good at everything either. He wasn't a great 3 point shooter, nor was he great at rebounding and assists. And there are multiple players who have played in the NBA without any particular weaknesses.

3. He had a great Jump shot.

This is a characteristic of many players. Kobe Bryant's jump shot is great too.

4. He could use either hand, able to go to his left as well as his right.

David Lee, Derrick Rose, Andrew Bogut and Michael Beasley can use either hand too.

5. He was a great ball handler.

There many good ball handlers in the NBA.

6. He was a great rebounder.

6.2 rebounds per game isn't really great. Examples of actual great rebounders: Larry Bird (10.0), Dennis Rodman (13.1), Bill Russell (22.5), Wilt Chamberlain (22.9).

7. Best driving ability ever.

That's totally opinionated.

8. Excellent defender (he led the league in steals more than once, and was named defensive player of the year. He was also a great shot blocker.)

He was great at steals, but he only had a few seasons where he was a great shot blocker. A career average of 0.8 blocks per game isn't really special. Examples of actual great shot blockers: Hakeem Olajuwon (3.0), Shaquille O'Neal (2.3), Mark Eaton (3.5), Elmore Smith (2.9). By the way, Ben Wallace was named Defensive Player of the Year 4 times, Dwight Howard 3 times, and Dikembe Mutombo 4 times.

9. He made his teammates better (just ask anyone who played with him.)

Scottie Pippen had the best season of his career without Michael Jordan. In fact, both Scottie Pippen and Horace Grant did better the year Michael Jordan was first retired. Dennis Rodman had already established himself as a great rebounder and defender when he was on the Pistons.

4. He possessed a wonderful basketball IQ.

So did Larry Bird.

5. He had an unparralleled work ethic.

Actually, he was one of the biggest ball hogs to ever play in the NBA. As Doug Collins once said, "Do you know who's the biggest obstacle to us running? Michael Jordan, that's who. He won't let go of the ball."

6. His competitive streak was next to none.

As could be said about many players with multiple rings.




Michael Jordan is elite, but he's not untouchable.
Logged
stavros_388
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: +
Posts: 1,277



« Reply #2660 on: January 22, 2012, 09:00:12 PM »

I wouldn't want to be the field goal kicker for the Ravens right now. Tongue

Poor dude.
Logged

"The kingdom of heaven is virtuous life, just as the torment of hell is passionate habits." - St. Gregory of Sinai

"Our idea of God tells us more about ourselves than about Him." - Thomas Merton
PeterTheAleut
The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
Section Moderator
Protospatharios
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 33,175


Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!


« Reply #2661 on: January 22, 2012, 09:47:49 PM »

Scottie Pippen had the best season of his career without Michael Jordan. In fact, both Scottie Pippen and Horace Grant did better the year Michael Jordan was first retired. Dennis Rodman had already established himself as a great rebounder and defender when he was on the Pistons.
Yeah, I got to thinking about Scottie Pippen myself. Twice Pippen played for a team that advanced to a conference finals series without Michael Jordan: 1994 (the full year of Jordan's first retirement) with the Bulls and 2000 with the Portland Trail Blazers (the series where Portland blew a 15-point lead in the 4th quarter of Game 7 to lose to the Lakers). Can anyone tell me how many times Michael Jordan played in a conference finals series without Pippen helping him get there? That's right. ZERO!

Jordan was an outstanding talent, but it was Pippen who directed the Bulls' triangle offense and made sure everyone got involved. The Bulls were actually more successful without Jordan than they were without Pippen.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2012, 09:50:04 PM by PeterTheAleut » Logged
PeterTheAleut
The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
Section Moderator
Protospatharios
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 33,175


Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!


« Reply #2662 on: January 22, 2012, 10:14:40 PM »

2. Jordan had no weaknesses in his game.

That being said, he wasn't good at everything either. He wasn't a great 3 point shooter, nor was he great at rebounding and assists. And there are multiple players who have played in the NBA without any particular weaknesses.
As a Blazer fan, I can still remember that first game of the 1992 NBA Finals when Jordan buried five 3-pointers in the first half to lead the Bulls to a rout of the Blazers, but that was not normal for him. After his fifth trey, I remember Jordan making that gesture that indicated possibly that even he was surprised by his sudden success from outside the stripe.
Logged
PeterTheAleut
The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
Section Moderator
Protospatharios
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 33,175


Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!


« Reply #2663 on: January 22, 2012, 10:32:45 PM »

I wouldn't want to be the field goal kicker for the Ravens right now. Tongue

Poor dude.
I wouldn't want to be Lee Evans right now. Have the game winning TD catch knocked out of his hands in the end zone. Sad
Logged
Shiny
Site Supporter
Moderated
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Groucho Marxist
Jurisdiction: Dahntahn Stoop Haus
Posts: 13,267


Paint It Red


« Reply #2664 on: January 22, 2012, 11:35:18 PM »

I called it at Thanksgiving and the miraculous pieces just keep falling together..



Ravens-49ers, its a Harbaugh brothers Superbowl this year..
NOPE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
NOPE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! X2

LMFAO!!!!!!!!!
Logged

“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”

– St. Ambrose of Milan
PeterTheAleut
The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
Section Moderator
Protospatharios
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 33,175


Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!


« Reply #2665 on: January 22, 2012, 11:53:27 PM »

I called it at Thanksgiving and the miraculous pieces just keep falling together..



Ravens-49ers, its a Harbaugh brothers Superbowl this year..
NOPE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
NOPE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! X2

LMFAO!!!!!!!!!
Yeah, I guess the Ravens are making a lot of people eat crow today, myself being one of them. Embarrassed
Logged
Shiny
Site Supporter
Moderated
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Groucho Marxist
Jurisdiction: Dahntahn Stoop Haus
Posts: 13,267


Paint It Red


« Reply #2666 on: January 22, 2012, 11:58:46 PM »

I can't wait for this rematch!!
Logged

“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”

– St. Ambrose of Milan
That person
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catechumen
Jurisdiction: Antiochian Orthodox Christian Archdiocese of North America
Posts: 1,158


Long live Commie Superman


« Reply #2667 on: January 23, 2012, 12:01:31 AM »

I can't wait for this rematch!!
Why? I can't bring myself to like either team. Guess I'll root for New Jersey if I have to root for one.
Logged

"Some have such command of their bowels, that they can break wind continuously at pleasure, so as to produce the effect of singing."- St. Augustine of Hippo

Movie reviews you can trust.
biro
Excelsior
Site Supporter
Moderated
Hoplitarches
*****
Online Online

Posts: 14,699



WWW
« Reply #2668 on: January 23, 2012, 12:03:44 AM »

Go Giants!
Logged
Shiny
Site Supporter
Moderated
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Groucho Marxist
Jurisdiction: Dahntahn Stoop Haus
Posts: 13,267


Paint It Red


« Reply #2669 on: January 23, 2012, 12:08:25 AM »

I can't wait for this rematch!!
Why? I can't bring myself to like either team. Guess I'll root for New Jersey if I have to root for one.
2007
Logged

“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”

– St. Ambrose of Milan
christian7777
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Christian
Posts: 288


« Reply #2670 on: January 23, 2012, 12:12:00 AM »

I can't wait for this rematch!!

Neither can I; the Patriots shall avenge their Super Bowl loss!  Smiley
Logged
Jetavan
Argumentum ad australopithecum
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Science to the Fourth Power
Jurisdiction: Ohayo Gozaimasu
Posts: 6,580


Barlaam and Josaphat


WWW
« Reply #2671 on: January 23, 2012, 12:30:53 AM »

SuperBowl:

Puritans 27
Nephilim 17
Logged

If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.
That person
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catechumen
Jurisdiction: Antiochian Orthodox Christian Archdiocese of North America
Posts: 1,158


Long live Commie Superman


« Reply #2672 on: January 23, 2012, 12:31:43 AM »

I can't wait for this rematch!!
Why? I can't bring myself to like either team. Guess I'll root for New Jersey if I have to root for one.
2007
A decently-played game between two thoroughly unlikable teams with a cool little twist at the end. Doesn't really pump me. With Dalton, Gresham, Green, and Atkins in the lineup, I think I'm more excited for the Pro Bowl.
Logged

"Some have such command of their bowels, that they can break wind continuously at pleasure, so as to produce the effect of singing."- St. Augustine of Hippo

Movie reviews you can trust.
TheMathematician
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: American
Posts: 1,625


Formerly known as Montalo


« Reply #2673 on: January 23, 2012, 12:31:49 AM »

i hate both teams, but i will be cheering against the giants in this super bowl
Logged
PeterTheAleut
The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
Section Moderator
Protospatharios
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 33,175


Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!


« Reply #2674 on: January 23, 2012, 12:41:56 AM »

I wouldn't want to be the field goal kicker for the Ravens right now. Tongue

Poor dude.
I wouldn't want to be Lee Evans right now. Have the game winning TD catch knocked out of his hands in the end zone. Sad
I wouldn't want to be Kyle Williams, either. A muff on one punt and a fumble on another sets up 10 Giants points, including the game winning 3 in OT.
Logged
HabteSelassie
Ises and I-ity
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Oriental Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church
Posts: 3,332



« Reply #2675 on: January 23, 2012, 01:36:16 AM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

I called it at Thanksgiving and the miraculous pieces just keep falling together..



Ravens-49ers, its a Harbaugh brothers Superbowl this year..
NOPE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah, I hear you,  God ain't been to good with me the past few years, I was hoping perhaps He since He wasn't blessing me with the necessities, He might at least bless me with something as trivial as football.. I guessed wrong, much like all things in life, I should have went with the group think and followed what was popular rather then where my heart was at Sad

sorry if my trash-talking was offensive to any of y'all this season
, clearly it was me who needed to get the swift kick in the bahookie, as if I hadn't had enough cup checks the past few years.

Moral of the story, pick whatever the herd and masses say, don't go against the grain, even if your heart tells you, it will only get broken.

stay blessed,
habte selassie



Profanity removed in favor of something more acceptable  -PtA
« Last Edit: January 23, 2012, 01:51:53 AM by PeterTheAleut » Logged

"Yet stand aloof from stupid questionings and geneologies and strifes and fightings about law, for they are without benefit and vain." Titus 3:10
Shiny
Site Supporter
Moderated
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Groucho Marxist
Jurisdiction: Dahntahn Stoop Haus
Posts: 13,267


Paint It Red


« Reply #2676 on: January 23, 2012, 01:41:50 AM »

Dude the majority of people had the Ravens and 49ers going to the Bowl. What are you talking about?
Logged

“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”

– St. Ambrose of Milan
PeterTheAleut
The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
Section Moderator
Protospatharios
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 33,175


Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!


« Reply #2677 on: January 23, 2012, 01:53:18 AM »

Dude the majority of people had the Ravens and 49ers going to the Bowl. What are you talking about?
I wanted the Ravens and 49ers in the Super Bowl, so I'm eating just as much crow as everyone else who wanted the same.
Logged
Shiny
Site Supporter
Moderated
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Groucho Marxist
Jurisdiction: Dahntahn Stoop Haus
Posts: 13,267


Paint It Red


« Reply #2678 on: January 23, 2012, 01:57:48 AM »

So much crow to handle. And tears.
Logged

“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”

– St. Ambrose of Milan
HabteSelassie
Ises and I-ity
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Oriental Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church
Posts: 3,332



« Reply #2679 on: January 23, 2012, 01:58:53 AM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Quote
Profanity removed in favor of something more acceptable  -PtA

Sorry, I had a lot riding on today, its been a ruff couple of years recently, perhaps I invested to much of my distraction with sports and now not only crow am I eating, but some serious introspective nightmares similar to those of Hunter Thompson.

Quote
"Even a drunk person could learn to cope with things like seeing his dead grandmother climbing up his leg with a knife in her teeth, but no one should have to handle this trip.

stay blessed,
habte selassie
Logged

"Yet stand aloof from stupid questionings and geneologies and strifes and fightings about law, for they are without benefit and vain." Titus 3:10
Gamliel
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Greek Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Metropolis of San Francisco
Posts: 2,326



« Reply #2680 on: January 23, 2012, 02:18:08 AM »

I wanted the Ravens and 49ers in the Super Bowl, so I'm eating just as much crow as everyone else who wanted the same.
 Please pass the salt.  Tongue
« Last Edit: January 23, 2012, 02:18:43 AM by Gamliel » Logged
PeterTheAleut
The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
Section Moderator
Protospatharios
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 33,175


Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!


« Reply #2681 on: January 23, 2012, 02:44:16 AM »

I wanted the Ravens and 49ers in the Super Bowl, so I'm eating just as much crow as everyone else who wanted the same.
 Please pass the salt.  Tongue
You too!!?

« Last Edit: January 23, 2012, 02:48:31 AM by PeterTheAleut » Logged
Shiny
Site Supporter
Moderated
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Groucho Marxist
Jurisdiction: Dahntahn Stoop Haus
Posts: 13,267


Paint It Red


« Reply #2682 on: January 23, 2012, 02:48:54 AM »

Looks like a raven.
Logged

“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”

– St. Ambrose of Milan
PeterTheAleut
The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
Section Moderator
Protospatharios
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 33,175


Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!


« Reply #2683 on: January 23, 2012, 02:50:39 AM »

Looks like a raven.
Hey, the Patriots ate all the ravens, leaving us peons nothing but crow to eat.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2012, 02:50:58 AM by PeterTheAleut » Logged
celticfan1888
Production Operator - Chemtrusion
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholicism
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church of America
Posts: 3,026



« Reply #2684 on: January 23, 2012, 05:58:21 AM »

NAB Cup coming up in a few weeks...  Cool
Logged

Forgive my sins.
Shiny
Site Supporter
Moderated
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Groucho Marxist
Jurisdiction: Dahntahn Stoop Haus
Posts: 13,267


Paint It Red


« Reply #2685 on: January 23, 2012, 06:02:36 AM »

Sorry Habte man, I really need to stop with my schadenfreude when it comes to sports.
Logged

“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”

– St. Ambrose of Milan
HabteSelassie
Ises and I-ity
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Oriental Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church
Posts: 3,332



« Reply #2686 on: January 23, 2012, 12:03:50 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!
Sorry Habte man, I really need to stop with my schadenfreude when it comes to sports.

Its aight, I was just being a poor sport and letting personal frustrations get the best of me Wink

The reality is both Ravens and 9ers had good seasons, it was a banner year for San Francisco as they got their division, broke out of mediocrity, stormed into the big boys of the NFL and are serious threat.  As to the Ravens, well, they had a great season as well, 9-1 against great teams, undefeated at home, put the smack down on our rival the Steelers, and had as fair a loss as someone could get.

Unlike in Ace Ventura, the laces were actually out, but Harbaugh1 should have took that time out, Joe Flacco may have a near record setting 49 career wins in his four short seasons, but that brother hasn't learned the art of clock management.  In reality, they were as good of games as anyone could ask for, fair, aggressive, to the wire, and as they say, any given sunday.

I won't be paying attention to the Bowl this year, yesterday was my Superbowl.

The drag, 20 weeks and more invested, that is what makes it sting.  But that is sports, and I am into them precisely for their social benefits, not simply to win vicariously through the TV.  That being said, its a teachable moment.  For San Francisco, we learn to keep our heads up and look to our accomplishments rather then our fewer failures. For Ravens, humility, patience, and consistency, and the lesson that young teams need to learn, it takes time.  This was clearly Eli's year, he called, and the one thing I always say, records don't win superbowls, and Giants came in just like Green Bay last year, an unexpected and upsetting wild-card who when they were 7-7 were even a long shot!

Now I got to eat crow from all the students I've been badgering all year, remember, I been rooting for the Ravens for the Bowl since the pre-season!

stay blessed,
habte selassie
Logged

"Yet stand aloof from stupid questionings and geneologies and strifes and fightings about law, for they are without benefit and vain." Titus 3:10
podkarpatska
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: ACROD
Posts: 8,966


Pokrov


WWW
« Reply #2687 on: January 23, 2012, 12:48:44 PM »

I called it at Thanksgiving and the miraculous pieces just keep falling together..



Ravens-49ers, its a Harbaugh brothers Superbowl this year..
NOPE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
NOPE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! X2

LMFAO!!!!!!!!!
Yeah, I guess the Ravens are making a lot of people eat crow today, myself being one of them. Embarrassed



...quoth the Raven - nevermore.... A tough, tough loss --my wife never got over 'wide right' in the 1991 Super Bowl!
Logged
podkarpatska
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: ACROD
Posts: 8,966


Pokrov


WWW
« Reply #2688 on: January 23, 2012, 12:50:11 PM »

Go Giants!

ELI-te Eli Manning! He stayed in the pocket, took a beating and ended up on top! Go G-Men! Beat the cheat!
Logged
biro
Excelsior
Site Supporter
Moderated
Hoplitarches
*****
Online Online

Posts: 14,699



WWW
« Reply #2689 on: January 23, 2012, 01:18:12 PM »

SuperBowl:

Puritans 27
Nephilim 17

Haha! That's a good one.
Logged
HabteSelassie
Ises and I-ity
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Oriental Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church
Posts: 3,332



« Reply #2690 on: January 23, 2012, 02:38:57 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

The same exact pouring rain storm which drenched San Francisco yesterday is falling here in Los Angeles, in the brief 15 minute walk from my bus stop to my classroom I got drenched and miserably soaked.  It kind of got me depressed again, a real tangible way to rub in the loss, as the exact same storm which may have contributed to that loss tried to ruin my morning as well.  But praise God, dripping wet or not, it was indeed a remarkably beautiful morning, it hasn't rained in a month even though its the rainy season (its a La Nina year so LA is a desert), the weather was mystifying..

Luckily for me a lot of kids were also rooting for the 9ers so instead of putting salt in my wounds, we all have been sharing a collective sigh Smiley

stay blessed,
habte selassie
Logged

"Yet stand aloof from stupid questionings and geneologies and strifes and fightings about law, for they are without benefit and vain." Titus 3:10
Gebre Menfes Kidus
"SERVANT of The HOLY SPIRIT"
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Ethiopian Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Tewahedo / Non-Chalcedonian
Posts: 8,496


"Lord Have Mercy on Me a Sinner!"


WWW
« Reply #2691 on: January 23, 2012, 03:21:52 PM »

I don't know why I'm even wasting my time here trying to respond to the idiocy of anyone who states that Michael Lordan isn't the best player of all time. But I'll do so anyway, just because some things are too stupid to go unchallenged.

If you want to argue with these facts, then good luck:

1. He won 6 NBA Titles
2. Jordan had no weaknesses in his game.
3. He had a great Jump shot.
4. He could use either hand, able to go to his left as well as his right.
5. He was a great ball handler.
6. He was a great rebounder.
7. Best driving ability ever.
8. Excellent defender (he led the league in steals more than once, and was named defensive player of the year. He was also a great shot blocker.)
9. He made his teammates better (just ask anyone who played with him.)
4. He possessed a wonderful basketball IQ.
5. He had an unparralleled work ethic.
6. His competitive streak was next to none.

You can cite Oscar Robertson's stats all day long (and they were quite amazing), but if you and I had the same 4 players going against each other, I'd gladly take Jordan in his prime over Oscar in his prime to add to my four any day of the week.

As for Magic, he's one of the top five of all time in my book. But he had weaknesses in his game. He wasn't a great defender, and he didn't have a great jump shot.

Jordan was the best that there's ever been, and I think the best that there will ever be. Like I said, there was not a weakness in his game whatsoever. He possessed the perfect combination of raw athleticism, fundamental precision, and all the intangibles. And BTW, the idea that he was a selfish player is absurd. You don't win 6 NBA titles by being selfish. Very early in his career he may have been a bit of a ball hog, but that's only because he had to be. He had no one around him then. But he matured quickly and placed complete trust in role players like John Paxon, Steve Kerr, and B.J. Armstrong- guys who would have been nothing without Jordan.

Anyway, I just had to set the record straight.  Wink


Selam


What's really stupid is that you think it the worst of blasphemous heresies to disagree with any argument that Michael Jordan was the best player ever. Basketball is a team game, which Jordan never really seemed to appreciate, not even in his HOF induction speech, where he spent more time blasting those who dissed him in the past (e.g., the high school coach who cut him from the team) than actually thanking those who helped him become successful. If basketball were merely a game of one-on-one, then maybe your arguments would have merit, but it ain't and they don't.


Your accusations against Jordan are obviously rooted in some bias that you have against him, not in reality. I gave you the facts, and you didn't address a single one of them. As I said before, you don't win 6 NBA titles and a college National Championship by being selfish. Ask Bob Knight (who coached him in the olympics), Dean Smith, Doug Collins, and Phil Jackson if Jordan was a selfish player.

Now if you dislike Jordan because you think he is a self-centered human being, then say so. But that has nothing to do with his merit as a basketball player.



Selam
Logged

"There are two great tragedies: one is to live a life ruled by the passions, and the other is to live a passionless life."
Selam, +GMK+
Gebre Menfes Kidus
"SERVANT of The HOLY SPIRIT"
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Ethiopian Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Tewahedo / Non-Chalcedonian
Posts: 8,496


"Lord Have Mercy on Me a Sinner!"


WWW
« Reply #2692 on: January 23, 2012, 03:27:36 PM »

1. He won 6 NBA Titles

Bill Russell won 11, Sam Jones won 10, Tom Heinsohn won 8, K.C. Jones won 8, John Havlicek won 8, Bob Cousy won 6, and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar won 6.

2. Jordan had no weaknesses in his game.

That being said, he wasn't good at everything either. He wasn't a great 3 point shooter, nor was he great at rebounding and assists. And there are multiple players who have played in the NBA without any particular weaknesses.

3. He had a great Jump shot.

This is a characteristic of many players. Kobe Bryant's jump shot is great too.

4. He could use either hand, able to go to his left as well as his right.

David Lee, Derrick Rose, Andrew Bogut and Michael Beasley can use either hand too.

5. He was a great ball handler.

There many good ball handlers in the NBA.

6. He was a great rebounder.

6.2 rebounds per game isn't really great. Examples of actual great rebounders: Larry Bird (10.0), Dennis Rodman (13.1), Bill Russell (22.5), Wilt Chamberlain (22.9).

7. Best driving ability ever.

That's totally opinionated.

8. Excellent defender (he led the league in steals more than once, and was named defensive player of the year. He was also a great shot blocker.)

He was great at steals, but he only had a few seasons where he was a great shot blocker. A career average of 0.8 blocks per game isn't really special. Examples of actual great shot blockers: Hakeem Olajuwon (3.0), Shaquille O'Neal (2.3), Mark Eaton (3.5), Elmore Smith (2.9). By the way, Ben Wallace was named Defensive Player of the Year 4 times, Dwight Howard 3 times, and Dikembe Mutombo 4 times.

9. He made his teammates better (just ask anyone who played with him.)

Scottie Pippen had the best season of his career without Michael Jordan. In fact, both Scottie Pippen and Horace Grant did better the year Michael Jordan was first retired. Dennis Rodman had already established himself as a great rebounder and defender when he was on the Pistons.

4. He possessed a wonderful basketball IQ.

So did Larry Bird.

5. He had an unparralleled work ethic.

Actually, he was one of the biggest ball hogs to ever play in the NBA. As Doug Collins once said, "Do you know who's the biggest obstacle to us running? Michael Jordan, that's who. He won't let go of the ball."

6. His competitive streak was next to none.

As could be said about many players with multiple rings.




Michael Jordan is elite, but he's not untouchable.


You are actually making my point without realizing it. Nobody you mentioned here possessed the combination of all these skills. There have been better p
ure shooters, better rebounders, better ball handlers, etc.; but no NBA player has ever possessed the perfect combination of all these attributes. Also, please understand that Jordan was constantly improving as well. You can't judge him simply by the player he was early in his career.


Selam
Logged

"There are two great tragedies: one is to live a life ruled by the passions, and the other is to live a passionless life."
Selam, +GMK+
HabteSelassie
Ises and I-ity
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Oriental Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church
Posts: 3,332



« Reply #2693 on: January 23, 2012, 03:49:08 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Speaking of bad-attitude basketball, this is some serious trashtalking!

Quote
Throughout the game Sunday evening at Staples Center, Pacers center Roy Hibbert needed cotton to absorb the bleeding from a broken nose.

He had trouble breathing as he ran up and down the floor. And during Indiana's 98-96 victory over the Lakers, Hibbert managed to score eight of his 18 points in the fourth quarter.

And to think, after Kobe Bryant's inadvertent elbow to his nose prompted Hibbert to leave the game with 6:46 left in the first quarter, there was no indication he could return.

Don't count Lakers forward Metta World Peace among those who feel impressed.

"I don't know if it's broken," he said. "I think that's just how he looks. I think he naturally looks like that."
LATimes
straight clownin!

stay blessed,
habte selassie
« Last Edit: January 23, 2012, 03:49:27 PM by HabteSelassie » Logged

"Yet stand aloof from stupid questionings and geneologies and strifes and fightings about law, for they are without benefit and vain." Titus 3:10
PeterTheAleut
The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
Section Moderator
Protospatharios
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 33,175


Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!


« Reply #2694 on: January 23, 2012, 05:16:44 PM »

I don't know why I'm even wasting my time here trying to respond to the idiocy of anyone who states that Michael Lordan isn't the best player of all time. But I'll do so anyway, just because some things are too stupid to go unchallenged.

If you want to argue with these facts, then good luck:

1. He won 6 NBA Titles
2. Jordan had no weaknesses in his game.
3. He had a great Jump shot.
4. He could use either hand, able to go to his left as well as his right.
5. He was a great ball handler.
6. He was a great rebounder.
7. Best driving ability ever.
8. Excellent defender (he led the league in steals more than once, and was named defensive player of the year. He was also a great shot blocker.)
9. He made his teammates better (just ask anyone who played with him.)
4. He possessed a wonderful basketball IQ.
5. He had an unparralleled work ethic.
6. His competitive streak was next to none.

You can cite Oscar Robertson's stats all day long (and they were quite amazing), but if you and I had the same 4 players going against each other, I'd gladly take Jordan in his prime over Oscar in his prime to add to my four any day of the week.

As for Magic, he's one of the top five of all time in my book. But he had weaknesses in his game. He wasn't a great defender, and he didn't have a great jump shot.

Jordan was the best that there's ever been, and I think the best that there will ever be. Like I said, there was not a weakness in his game whatsoever. He possessed the perfect combination of raw athleticism, fundamental precision, and all the intangibles. And BTW, the idea that he was a selfish player is absurd. You don't win 6 NBA titles by being selfish. Very early in his career he may have been a bit of a ball hog, but that's only because he had to be. He had no one around him then. But he matured quickly and placed complete trust in role players like John Paxon, Steve Kerr, and B.J. Armstrong- guys who would have been nothing without Jordan.

Anyway, I just had to set the record straight.  Wink


Selam


What's really stupid is that you think it the worst of blasphemous heresies to disagree with any argument that Michael Jordan was the best player ever. Basketball is a team game, which Jordan never really seemed to appreciate, not even in his HOF induction speech, where he spent more time blasting those who dissed him in the past (e.g., the high school coach who cut him from the team) than actually thanking those who helped him become successful. If basketball were merely a game of one-on-one, then maybe your arguments would have merit, but it ain't and they don't.


Your accusations against Jordan are obviously rooted in some bias that you have against him, not in reality. I gave you the facts, and you didn't address a single one of them. As I said before, you don't win 6 NBA titles and a college National Championship by being selfish. Ask Bob Knight (who coached him in the olympics), Dean Smith, Doug Collins, and Phil Jackson if Jordan was a selfish player.

Now if you dislike Jordan because you think he is a self-centered human being, then say so. But that has nothing to do with his merit as a basketball player.



Selam

Gebre, let's wait til you detox from the Kool-Aid you've been drinking, then we'll talk.
Logged
primuspilus
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antiochian Orthodox Archdiocese of North America - Western Rite Orthodox
Posts: 6,667


Inserting personal quote here.


WWW
« Reply #2695 on: January 23, 2012, 05:19:18 PM »

I don't know why I'm even wasting my time here trying to respond to the idiocy of anyone who states that Michael Lordan isn't the best player of all time. But I'll do so anyway, just because some things are too stupid to go unchallenged.

If you want to argue with these facts, then good luck:

1. He won 6 NBA Titles
2. Jordan had no weaknesses in his game.
3. He had a great Jump shot.
4. He could use either hand, able to go to his left as well as his right.
5. He was a great ball handler.
6. He was a great rebounder.
7. Best driving ability ever.
8. Excellent defender (he led the league in steals more than once, and was named defensive player of the year. He was also a great shot blocker.)
9. He made his teammates better (just ask anyone who played with him.)
4. He possessed a wonderful basketball IQ.
5. He had an unparralleled work ethic.
6. His competitive streak was next to none.

You can cite Oscar Robertson's stats all day long (and they were quite amazing), but if you and I had the same 4 players going against each other, I'd gladly take Jordan in his prime over Oscar in his prime to add to my four any day of the week.

As for Magic, he's one of the top five of all time in my book. But he had weaknesses in his game. He wasn't a great defender, and he didn't have a great jump shot.

Jordan was the best that there's ever been, and I think the best that there will ever be. Like I said, there was not a weakness in his game whatsoever. He possessed the perfect combination of raw athleticism, fundamental precision, and all the intangibles. And BTW, the idea that he was a selfish player is absurd. You don't win 6 NBA titles by being selfish. Very early in his career he may have been a bit of a ball hog, but that's only because he had to be. He had no one around him then. But he matured quickly and placed complete trust in role players like John Paxon, Steve Kerr, and B.J. Armstrong- guys who would have been nothing without Jordan.

Anyway, I just had to set the record straight.  Wink


Selam


What's really stupid is that you think it the worst of blasphemous heresies to disagree with any argument that Michael Jordan was the best player ever. Basketball is a team game, which Jordan never really seemed to appreciate, not even in his HOF induction speech, where he spent more time blasting those who dissed him in the past (e.g., the high school coach who cut him from the team) than actually thanking those who helped him become successful. If basketball were merely a game of one-on-one, then maybe your arguments would have merit, but it ain't and they don't.


Your accusations against Jordan are obviously rooted in some bias that you have against him, not in reality. I gave you the facts, and you didn't address a single one of them. As I said before, you don't win 6 NBA titles and a college National Championship by being selfish. Ask Bob Knight (who coached him in the olympics), Dean Smith, Doug Collins, and Phil Jackson if Jordan was a selfish player.

Now if you dislike Jordan because you think he is a self-centered human being, then say so. But that has nothing to do with his merit as a basketball player.



Selam

Gebre, let's wait til you detox from the Kool-Aid you've been drinking, then we'll talk.
He was pretty self-centered Smiley

PP
Logged

"I confidently affirm that whoever calls himself Universal Bishop is the precursor of Antichrist"
Gregory the Great

"Never, never, never let anyone tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern." St. John Maximovitch, The Wonderworker
Gebre Menfes Kidus
"SERVANT of The HOLY SPIRIT"
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Ethiopian Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Tewahedo / Non-Chalcedonian
Posts: 8,496


"Lord Have Mercy on Me a Sinner!"


WWW
« Reply #2696 on: January 23, 2012, 06:09:35 PM »

I don't know why I'm even wasting my time here trying to respond to the idiocy of anyone who states that Michael Lordan isn't the best player of all time. But I'll do so anyway, just because some things are too stupid to go unchallenged.

If you want to argue with these facts, then good luck:

1. He won 6 NBA Titles
2. Jordan had no weaknesses in his game.
3. He had a great Jump shot.
4. He could use either hand, able to go to his left as well as his right.
5. He was a great ball handler.
6. He was a great rebounder.
7. Best driving ability ever.
8. Excellent defender (he led the league in steals more than once, and was named defensive player of the year. He was also a great shot blocker.)
9. He made his teammates better (just ask anyone who played with him.)
4. He possessed a wonderful basketball IQ.
5. He had an unparralleled work ethic.
6. His competitive streak was next to none.

You can cite Oscar Robertson's stats all day long (and they were quite amazing), but if you and I had the same 4 players going against each other, I'd gladly take Jordan in his prime over Oscar in his prime to add to my four any day of the week.

As for Magic, he's one of the top five of all time in my book. But he had weaknesses in his game. He wasn't a great defender, and he didn't have a great jump shot.

Jordan was the best that there's ever been, and I think the best that there will ever be. Like I said, there was not a weakness in his game whatsoever. He possessed the perfect combination of raw athleticism, fundamental precision, and all the intangibles. And BTW, the idea that he was a selfish player is absurd. You don't win 6 NBA titles by being selfish. Very early in his career he may have been a bit of a ball hog, but that's only because he had to be. He had no one around him then. But he matured quickly and placed complete trust in role players like John Paxon, Steve Kerr, and B.J. Armstrong- guys who would have been nothing without Jordan.

Anyway, I just had to set the record straight.  Wink


Selam


What's really stupid is that you think it the worst of blasphemous heresies to disagree with any argument that Michael Jordan was the best player ever. Basketball is a team game, which Jordan never really seemed to appreciate, not even in his HOF induction speech, where he spent more time blasting those who dissed him in the past (e.g., the high school coach who cut him from the team) than actually thanking those who helped him become successful. If basketball were merely a game of one-on-one, then maybe your arguments would have merit, but it ain't and they don't.


Your accusations against Jordan are obviously rooted in some bias that you have against him, not in reality. I gave you the facts, and you didn't address a single one of them. As I said before, you don't win 6 NBA titles and a college National Championship by being selfish. Ask Bob Knight (who coached him in the olympics), Dean Smith, Doug Collins, and Phil Jackson if Jordan was a selfish player.

Now if you dislike Jordan because you think he is a self-centered human being, then say so. But that has nothing to do with his merit as a basketball player.



Selam

Gebre, let's wait til you detox from the Kool-Aid you've been drinking, then we'll talk.


LOL! Just giving you the facts bro.


Selam

Logged

"There are two great tragedies: one is to live a life ruled by the passions, and the other is to live a passionless life."
Selam, +GMK+
Fr. George
formerly "Cleveland"
Administrator
Stratopedarches
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox (Catholic) Christian
Jurisdiction: GOA - Metropolis of Pittsburgh
Posts: 20,146


May the Lord bless you and keep you always!


« Reply #2697 on: January 23, 2012, 06:30:06 PM »

1. He won 6 NBA Titles
2. Jordan had no weaknesses in his game.
3. He had a great Jump shot.
4. He could use either hand, able to go to his left as well as his right.
5. He was a great ball handler.
6. He was a great rebounder.
7. Best driving ability ever.
8. Excellent defender (he led the league in steals more than once, and was named defensive player of the year. He was also a great shot blocker.)
9. He made his teammates better (just ask anyone who played with him.)
4. He possessed a wonderful basketball IQ.
5. He had an unparralleled work ethic.
6. His competitive streak was next to none.

You can cite Oscar Robertson's stats all day long (and they were quite amazing), but if you and I had the same 4 players going against each other, I'd gladly take Jordan in his prime over Oscar in his prime to add to my four any day of the week.

As for Magic, he's one of the top five of all time in my book. But he had weaknesses in his game. He wasn't a great defender, and he didn't have a great jump shot.

Listen, Jordan is top-5, but it's hard to compare folks across positions and eras.  His 6 rings are chump change compared to some of the greats; he couldn't play or defend the 5 (and couldn't defend the 4), so don't say, "he had no flaws" (vs. Magic, who could play all 5 positions at a championship level, the Big O who could play 4 at a championship level, etc.); there have been better jump shooters and scorers throughout the ages (Larry Bird, etc.).

He calls himself the best, and may be the best, but it's not an uncontested race, and certainly not as clear-cut as you'd like it to be.  He benefited from the role players he detested (even Scottie), and his abuse of them in practice is well documented.  He couldn't win in the playoffs until those role players (and Scottie, who was a HOF-er in his own right) developed and were put in place.  He excelled and won because he was an insufferable man who cared little for his teammates and less for his opponents, who strove to perfect himself constantly while also specifically seeking opportunities to continue humiliating others, taking advantage of people and situations, and ultimately putting himself above all others, including family and friends.  He was a great ball player, but would also have been a great assassin (cold blooded, ruthless, relentless).

Ultimately, the best players in history (so far) have rarely been "alone" on their teams - i.e. nothing but average players around them. 

And as for the straight-up 2 teams with the same floor + 1 great that you propose, a team with Wilt, the Big O, Jerry West, Magic, or Bill Russell in their primes as the +1, and adjusted for the differences in training in one era vs another, would wipe the floor with Jordan as the +1.  At least 3 of the people on the list needed to be triple-teamed on D, while Jordan could be neutralized with a decent double-team.
Logged

"The man who doesn't read good books has no advantage over the one who can't read them." Mark Twain
---------------------
Ordained on 17 & 18-Oct 2009. Please forgive me if earlier posts are poorly worded or incorrect in any way.
PeterTheAleut
The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
Section Moderator
Protospatharios
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 33,175


Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!


« Reply #2698 on: January 23, 2012, 06:44:13 PM »

1. He won 6 NBA Titles
2. Jordan had no weaknesses in his game.
3. He had a great Jump shot.
4. He could use either hand, able to go to his left as well as his right.
5. He was a great ball handler.
6. He was a great rebounder.
7. Best driving ability ever.
8. Excellent defender (he led the league in steals more than once, and was named defensive player of the year. He was also a great shot blocker.)
9. He made his teammates better (just ask anyone who played with him.)
4. He possessed a wonderful basketball IQ.
5. He had an unparralleled work ethic.
6. His competitive streak was next to none.

You can cite Oscar Robertson's stats all day long (and they were quite amazing), but if you and I had the same 4 players going against each other, I'd gladly take Jordan in his prime over Oscar in his prime to add to my four any day of the week.

As for Magic, he's one of the top five of all time in my book. But he had weaknesses in his game. He wasn't a great defender, and he didn't have a great jump shot.

Listen, Jordan is top-5, but it's hard to compare folks across positions and eras.  His 6 rings are chump change compared to some of the greats; he couldn't play or defend the 5 (and couldn't defend the 4), so don't say, "he had no flaws" (vs. Magic, who could play all 5 positions at a championship level, the Big O who could play 4 at a championship level, etc.); there have been better jump shooters and scorers throughout the ages (Larry Bird, etc.).

He calls himself the best, and may be the best, but it's not an uncontested race, and certainly not as clear-cut as you'd like it to be.  He benefited from the role players he detested (even Scottie), and his abuse of them in practice is well documented.  He couldn't win in the playoffs until those role players (and Scottie, who was a HOF-er in his own right) developed and were put in place.  He excelled and won because he was an insufferable man who cared little for his teammates and less for his opponents, who strove to perfect himself constantly while also specifically seeking opportunities to continue humiliating others, taking advantage of people and situations, and ultimately putting himself above all others, including family and friends.  He was a great ball player, but would also have been a great assassin (cold blooded, ruthless, relentless).

Ultimately, the best players in history (so far) have rarely been "alone" on their teams - i.e. nothing but average players around them. 

And as for the straight-up 2 teams with the same floor + 1 great that you propose, a team with Wilt, the Big O, Jerry West, Magic, or Bill Russell in their primes as the +1, and adjusted for the differences in training in one era vs another, would wipe the floor with Jordan as the +1.  At least 3 of the people on the list needed to be triple-teamed on D, while Jordan could be neutralized with a decent double-team.
And regarding Jordan's NCAA championship at UNC: Everyone loves to remember how the freshman Jordan hit the jumper that won the title game, but very few remember that it was James Worthy who put the Tar Heels in position to win on Jordan's last-second heroics. After that game, Worthy went pro and left Jordan to be the team's star player for the next two years. In those two years without Worthy, the Tar Heels never made it past the Sweet 16 (or was it the Elite 8?).
Logged
Gebre Menfes Kidus
"SERVANT of The HOLY SPIRIT"
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Ethiopian Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Tewahedo / Non-Chalcedonian
Posts: 8,496


"Lord Have Mercy on Me a Sinner!"


WWW
« Reply #2699 on: January 23, 2012, 06:48:56 PM »


1. He won 6 NBA Titles
2. Jordan had no weaknesses in his game.
3. He had a great Jump shot.
4. He could use either hand, able to go to his left as well as his right.
5. He was a great ball handler.
6. He was a great rebounder.
7. Best driving ability ever.
8. Excellent defender (he led the league in steals more than once, and was named defensive player of the year. He was also a great shot blocker.)
9. He made his teammates better (just ask anyone who played with him.)
4. He possessed a wonderful basketball IQ.
5. He had an unparralleled work ethic.
6. His competitive streak was next to none.

You can cite Oscar Robertson's stats all day long (and they were quite amazing), but if you and I had the same 4 players going against each other, I'd gladly take Jordan in his prime over Oscar in his prime to add to my four any day of the week.

As for Magic, he's one of the top five of all time in my book. But he had weaknesses in his game. He wasn't a great defender, and he didn't have a great jump shot.

Listen, Jordan is top-5, but it's hard to compare folks across positions and eras.  His 6 rings are chump change compared to some of the greats; he couldn't play or defend the 5 (and couldn't defend the 4), so don't say, "he had no flaws" (vs. Magic, who could play all 5 positions at a championship level, the Big O who could play 4 at a championship level, etc.); there have been better jump shooters and scorers throughout the ages (Larry Bird, etc.).

He calls himself the best, and may be the best, but it's not an uncontested race, and certainly not as clear-cut as you'd like it to be.  He benefited from the role players he detested (even Scottie), and his abuse of them in practice is well documented.  He couldn't win in the playoffs until those role players (and Scottie, who was a HOF-er in his own right) developed and were put in place.  He excelled and won because he was an insufferable man who cared little for his teammates and less for his opponents, who strove to perfect himself constantly while also specifically seeking opportunities to continue humiliating others, taking advantage of people and situations, and ultimately putting himself above all others, including family and friends.  He was a great ball player, but would also have been a great assassin (cold blooded, ruthless, relentless).

Ultimately, the best players in history (so far) have rarely been "alone" on their teams - i.e. nothing but average players around them. 

And as for the straight-up 2 teams with the same floor + 1 great that you propose, a team with Wilt, the Big O, Jerry West, Magic, or Bill Russell in their primes as the +1, and adjusted for the differences in training in one era vs another, would wipe the floor with Jordan as the +1.  At least 3 of the people on the list needed to be triple-teamed on D, while Jordan could be neutralized with a decent double-team.

Father Bless,

I do not mean to be disrespectful, but you are obviously confusing your personal disdain for Michael Jordan as a person with an objective analysis of his greatness as a basketball player.

Please name one weakness in Jordan's game. Stating that there were others who were better at a particular aspect of the game does not equate to Jordan being deficient in that area.

The bottom line is that if you and I were given the same four players, and you added Magic, Oscar, Wilt, or anyone else to your four and I added Jordan to my same four, I would win at least 7 out of 10 games. I guess there's no way to prove that, but anyone who truly knows the game of basketball would agree with me (just ask those who played and coached both with and against Jordan, and I promise you that they'd tell you the same.) Bob Knight, who abhorred selfish, individualistic basketball had this to say about Jordan when he coached him in the Olympics (when Jordan was only a college sophomore): "Michael Jordan is the best basketball player that will ever play this game."

It's sad that our culture has become so soft and feminized that anyone who demands perfection and excellence both from themselves and from those around them is condemned as selfish and insufferable. I can assure you that any true competitor would gladly have suffered Jordan's demanding nature in order to win 6 NBA rings.

Jordan is no Saint, but he isn't nearly as dispicable as you make him out to be.

Again, no disrespect to you Father.


Selam
Logged

"There are two great tragedies: one is to live a life ruled by the passions, and the other is to live a passionless life."
Selam, +GMK+
Tags: sports Red Star Belgrade New Orleans Saints Manchester United New York Baseball Giants Cincinnati Bungles 
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 »   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.19 seconds with 71 queries.