Must I receive the label "Orthodox" to be serious about Orthodoxy?

[EkhristosAnesti]

My Oriental Orthodox church is rather ecumenical toward Protestants and Roman Catholics.

Talk about a loaded statement. As much as I would rather not dialogue with you--as I find it indubitably otiose (and personally quite frustrating), you have once again forced me to enter a discussion with you by virtue of your attempt to once again speak on behalf of the OO Church. Please define the term "ecumenical" as you have just employed it.

[SouthSerb99]

I think everyone should have taken EA's early advice and boycott this nonsense.

M777, there is really no good way to say it, so I'll just say this, instead of beating around the bush.

I have an 18 month old at home (who as of now) is our only child.  Since he is our only child (another on the way) he is the center of our attention.  When he gets together with some of his playmates he realizes that he is no longer the "center of attention" and will sometimes act up so as to put himself in the center of attention.  As a parent, it is my duty to try to correct this behavior and delicately as I can.

Well, you are to OC.net, what my son is to the general world.  I have gone through many of your threads and here is what they look like...

1.   Why "I" don't like labels?

2.  "My" paper on the evolution of goulash.

3.   "My" view of why the early fathers snored and how St. Gregory of Nyssa may have been primarily responsible.

4.  What "I" think about fasting during happy hour, while playing Tetris on my Nintendo DS II.

5.   How "I" learned to tie my shoes while in College.

Do you see a trend here?

I don't think anyone signed up here to be exposed to post after post by M777 about how "he" feels about every imaginable topic on the planet.  Give it a break, because even the most patient parents might contemplate a spanking if the bad behavior is not corrected.

[ozgeorge]

I think......I don't think

Good Heavens! That you don't see the irony!

[Matthew777]

Talk about a loaded statement. As much as I would rather not dialogue with you--as I find it indubitably otiose (and personally quite frustrating), you have once again forced me to enter a discussion with you by virtue of your attempt to once again speak on behalf of the OO Church. Please define the term "ecumenical" as you have just employed it.

The Indian Orthodox Church is actively involved in the National and World Councils of Churches. Furthermore, Paulos Mar Gregorios, one of the most prominent figures of the ecumenical movement, gave this address before the Council for a Parliament of the World's Religions:

Vision Beckons
From Parliament of Religions to Global Concourse of Religions
http://www.geocities.com/gregorianstudycircle/Vision_Beckons.html

For the church to thrive in such a religiously diverse country as India, having an openness to other faiths was essential.

[Matthew777]

I think everyone should have taken EA's early advice and boycott this nonsense.

If you don't like a thread, don't post on it. That would be the simplest solution. If enough people follow your lead, it will just go away. That's much more fair than creating strawmen against a particular individual, something which I have never done against you.

[EkhristosAnesti]

For the church to thrive in such a religiously diverse country as India, having an openness to other faiths was essential.

Again, you continue to pursue making loaded statements. What exactly do you mean by the expression "openness to other faiths"? You do realise that the only goal of the Oriental Orthodox Church in organisations such as the WCC is to afford those non-Orthodox Churches the opportunity to understand and convert to Orthodoxy? The OO representatives (along with the EO representatives) have made it quite clear that true Christian unity can only be achieved at the doctrinal and thence sacramental level, and that such was the primary focus of their participation.

[Anastasios]

The Indian Orthodox Church is actively involved in the National and World Councils of Churches. Furthermore, Paulos Mar Gregorios, one of the most prominent figures of the ecumenical movement, gave this address before the Council for a Parliament of the World's Religions:

Vision Beckons
From Parliament of Religions to Global Concourse of Religions
http://www.geocities.com/gregorianstudycircle/Vision_Beckons.html

For the church to thrive in such a religiously diverse country as India, having an openness to other faiths was essential.

Your Church is unfortunately not flourishing in India.

[Matthew777]

Again, you continue to pursue making loaded statements.

I am only speaking of the Indian Orthodox Church's involvement in ecumenism, which is not to encourage conversion, but to foster tolerance, understanding and peace between different faiths. Paulos Mar Gregorios was one of the most important figures in the Indian Orthodox Church during the 20th century, which is why I recommend that you read his address.

[EkhristosAnesti]

I am only speaking of the Indian Orthodox Church's involvement in ecumenism, which is not to encourage conversion, but to foster tolerance, understanding and peace between different faiths.

Wrong. The Indian Orthodox Church's involvement in the WCC and other such ecumenical movements is completely unrelated to H.G. Paulos Mar Gregorios' inaugural address to the World's Parliament of Religions. Seeking to promote tolerance and peace can never be considered a bad thing, but that does not mean that such things are believed to constitute the basis of true Christian unity.

The Indian Orthodox Church realises fully well that true Christian unity can only be achieved at a doctrinal and thence sacramental level and has spoken out with other EO leaders against the tendency within mainline Protestantism to seek ecclesiastical unity on socio-political levels. We were just taught this at the Ecumenism class held at St. Mark's Coptic Orthodox Theological College in Arncliffe (Tue. 23rd), and lecturerd by Mr. Phillip Kariatlis.

Mar Gregorios was one of the most important figures in the Indian Orthodox Church during the 20th century

So he becomes one of the most important figures for you when an acontextual interpretation of his speech supports your agenda, but not when his article Eucharistic Hospitality--which was submitted to the WCC--goes against your belief that it is okay for RC's to receive the Eucharist at an Orthodox Church. Nice.

[Anastasios]

I read some of Paulos Mar Gregorios and he struck me as a communist and a humanist, and totally ecumenist.  I was highly underimpressed.  I also note that people tend to follow him as if he were some kind of guru.  Several of my Indian Orthodox friends thought he was off.

[EkhristosAnesti]

I read some of Paulos Mar Gregorios and he struck me as a communist and a humanist, and totally ecumenist.

Well, now you're making loaded statements. I don't care for his political views, so let's focus on this "ecumenist" stuff. You're going to have to be more specific, since that term is loaded with imputed connotations which not all of us necessarily infer. Ecumenism, as I understand it, is a divinely ordained obligation of the Church which is the corollary of the Church's Catholicity and Apostolicity; it's, in a nutshell, the Church's mission to afford all the opportunity to share in doctrinal and thence sacramental unity with the Church of Christ--which is something that can only be achieved actively rather than passively. This is what our theological seminary here in Sydney teaches; this is what your theological seminary here in Sydney teaches; this is the position that our future clergy here will generally adopt. If you can explain how His Grace Paulos Mar Gregorios has exceeded the proper boundaries of Ecumenism, then I am willing to listen. But as far as I am aware, whenever confronted with challenges to Orthodox ecumenism, such as the proposition of "Eucharistic hospitality", he stood firmly against such challenges.

[Matthew777]

What I dislike the most about internet forums is the tendency to only see the worst in a particular person's position, rather than assuming that, at its heart, there is a level of truth in what a person is saying. I prefer dialogue over debate and taking disagreements in stride rather than personally.

[Matthew777]

I believe my point still stands that if the Orthodox Church is THE true and original Church, we need not attach a denominational name to ourselves.

[Asteriktos]

I believe...

Yep you do.

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OrthodoxChristianity.net > Moderated Forums > Free-For-All > Religious Topics (Moderator: Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)) > Topic: Must I receive the label "Orthodox" to be serious about Orthodoxy?