Author Topic: Communion by Bread and Wine...  (Read 3987 times)

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Offline ignatius

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Communion by Bread and Wine...
« on: January 12, 2007, 02:19:30 PM »
Hi Everyone,

In the West, communion has been done by one species (bread). From an Eastern prespective, is this wrong?
St Basil the Great (330-379 A.D.): “I think then that the one goal of all who are really and truly serving the Lord ought to be to bring back to union the churches who have at different times and in diverse manners divided from one another.”

Offline Sarah

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Re: Communion by Bread and Wine...
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2007, 02:33:52 PM »
It is certainly incomplete.

Offline SmoT

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Re: Communion by Bread and Wine...
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2007, 02:56:43 PM »
Hi Everyone,

In the West, communion has been done by one species (bread). From an Eastern prespective, is this wrong?

You mean in the Roman Catholic Church. The Baptist church I attended used bread and juice.

The general rule to follow is that if the Roman Catholic Church does it differently from the Orthodox - then it must be wrong, for the Roman Catholic Church no longer has any grace left in it.
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Offline Pravoslavbob

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Re: Communion by Bread and Wine...
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2007, 03:02:06 PM »
The general rule to follow is to take anything SmoT says with 16 tons of salt, particularly when it comes to Roman Catholicism.
Atheists have noetic deficiencies.

Offline SmoT

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Re: Communion by Bread and Wine...
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2007, 03:03:48 PM »
The general rule to follow is to take anything SmoT says with 16 tons of salt, particularly when it comes to Roman Catholicism.

;)  Sophia!
« Last Edit: January 12, 2007, 03:04:15 PM by SmoT »
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Offline Keble

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Re: Communion by Bread and Wine...
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2007, 03:24:59 PM »
The general rule to follow is that if the Roman Catholic Church does it differently from the Orthodox - then it must be wrong, for the Roman Catholic Church no longer has any grace left in it.

Especially when they do it differently from the Anglicans!  ;D ;) ;D

Offline Amdetsion

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Re: Communion by Bread and Wine...
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2007, 03:59:37 PM »
In The Holy Gosple Christ provided that 'we' partake of His body and drink of His blood.

This is Holy communnion.

Partaking of 'bread' only is maybe communion (not Holy communion).

I am guessing.

It is sad that we have so many views about one thing so Holy.

 
"ETHIOPIA shall soon stretch out her hands unto God".....Psalm 68:vs 31

"Are ye not as children of the ETHIOPIANS unto me, O children of Israel"?....Amos 9: vs 7

Offline crocodilina

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Re: Communion by Bread and Wine...
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2007, 04:34:32 PM »
From the Orthodox point of view we should partake Body and Blood of Christ, thus bread AND wine. Some catholic friends of mine told me that they do partake bread AND wine during their mass-the priest gives people the Hostia soaked in the wine. I think this might be an effort of the Catholic Church to come closer to the Orthodoxy?

Offline Pravoslavbob

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Re: Communion by Bread and Wine...
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2007, 04:48:18 PM »
Atheists have noetic deficiencies.

Offline Pravoslavbob

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Re: Communion by Bread and Wine...
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2007, 04:55:21 PM »
In the West, communion has been done by one species (bread). From an Eastern prespective, is this wrong?

It is wrong from our perspective,certainly.  This has been discussed recently, you should try and look up the thread.  We even try to make sure that babies get a little crumb of consecrated bread when they are given  the holy blood from the chalice.  Of course, that's another thing that we disagree on: giving communion to infants.  But any Orthodox would acknowledge that someone who took either species would be in full communion with the Church, despite the fact that we don't like the practice.
Atheists have noetic deficiencies.

Offline lubeltri

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Re: Communion by Bread and Wine...
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2007, 05:56:21 PM »
Of course, at all times past and present, the celebrating priest had to consecrate and receive in both species. However, it grew to be the practice, especially as the numbers of Catholics grew quite large, to offer to the people Communion in only one species. The Councils of Constance and Trent made this not just a common practice but a required universal discipline. It was forbidden to do otherwise.

Of course, it was (and is) a discipline, NOT a doctrinal or theological pronouncement. Popes had the authority to make exceptions with an indult, which they did once in a while. It has always been maintained that Christ is fully present, Body and Blood, under each species.

The discipline has been loosened since the Second Vatican Council. The US bishops have chosen to loosen it particularly so here in America, where it is very common in parishes to offer Communion in both kinds. Most parishes I've been to offer it. Of course, it is optional. A certain number of communicants in each parish pass on it.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2007, 05:56:46 PM by lubeltri »

Offline ignatius

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Re: Communion by Bread and Wine...
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2007, 06:47:44 PM »
Of course, at all times past and present, the celebrating priest had to consecrate and receive in both species. However, it grew to be the practice, especially as the numbers of Catholics grew quite large, to offer to the people Communion in only one species. The Councils of Constance and Trent made this not just a common practice but a required universal discipline. It was forbidden to do otherwise.

Of course, it was (and is) a discipline, NOT a doctrinal or theological pronouncement. Popes had the authority to make exceptions with an indult, which they did once in a while. It has always been maintained that Christ is fully present, Body and Blood, under each species.

The discipline has been loosened since the Second Vatican Council. The US bishops have chosen to loosen it particularly so here in America, where it is very common in parishes to offer Communion in both kinds. Most parishes I've been to offer it. Of course, it is optional. A certain number of communicants in each parish pass on it.

So you are saying it is nolonger the 'normative' practice in the West to offer the Eucharist under two species? Why have Maronites and others in communion with Rome continued to offer the Eucharist under two species?
St Basil the Great (330-379 A.D.): “I think then that the one goal of all who are really and truly serving the Lord ought to be to bring back to union the churches who have at different times and in diverse manners divided from one another.”

Offline lubeltri

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Re: Communion by Bread and Wine...
« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2007, 10:52:28 PM »
So you are saying it is nolonger the 'normative' practice in the West to offer the Eucharist under two species? Why have Maronites and others in communion with Rome continued to offer the Eucharist under two species?

I was only referring to the Roman Catholic Church. The Eastern Catholic Churches, of course, have their own disciplines.

Offline Jakub

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Re: Communion by Bread and Wine...
« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2007, 02:55:02 PM »
Good old smot...

Funny, a like topic Communion under One Species is currently a hot topic at a popular Catholic forum which I will not name...

A priest from a Eastern point of view brought to the discussion the "Ultraquist" which is interesting...smot check it out.

semaj
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Offline ignatius

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Re: Communion by Bread and Wine...
« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2007, 05:04:23 PM »
Good old smot...

Funny, a like topic Communion under One Species is currently a hot topic at a popular Catholic forum which I will not name...

A priest from a Eastern point of view brought to the discussion the "Ultraquist" which is interesting...smot check it out.

semaj

What is Ultraquist?
St Basil the Great (330-379 A.D.): “I think then that the one goal of all who are really and truly serving the Lord ought to be to bring back to union the churches who have at different times and in diverse manners divided from one another.”

Offline Jakub

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Re: Communion by Bread and Wine...
« Reply #15 on: January 15, 2007, 07:59:27 PM »
Here is a bit on ultraquist...


http://hedgie.org/ttt/HusII.php

james
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Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked anyway, the good fortune to run into the ones I do, and the eyesight to tell the difference.

Offline Amdetsion

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Re: Communion by Bread and Wine...
« Reply #16 on: January 15, 2007, 08:17:26 PM »
I first experienced 'tensuring' visiting a Syrian Orthodox Parish.

I was completely thrown off.

I did not take communion because I ahd never seen this before.

I was told aftre the service that tbhis was instituted to help prevent passing of germs.

I do not think that is the correct reason.

What is 'Tensuring'?

I know that the body and blood are united before the communicant partakes; but how does this happen in the devine mystery?

The devine mystery established by Christ himself is : 1. take eat - This is My Body   2. take drink this is My Blood. Two devine acts one devine mystery = Holy Communion.

The devine mystery does not provide for take 'Dip' then eat...this is my body and blood?????

"ETHIOPIA shall soon stretch out her hands unto God".....Psalm 68:vs 31

"Are ye not as children of the ETHIOPIANS unto me, O children of Israel"?....Amos 9: vs 7

Offline Veniamin

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Re: Communion by Bread and Wine...
« Reply #17 on: January 15, 2007, 08:45:58 PM »
I'm not really sure how that's any different from soaking all of the bread in the chalice and communing the faithful with a spoon, which of course, is the Church's standard practice.
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Offline Amdetsion

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Re: Communion by Bread and Wine...
« Reply #18 on: January 17, 2007, 03:38:08 PM »
This not standard in most eatren communions.

From Jerusalem to south India the standard is recieving the Body and then drinking the blood.

"Take eat, Take drink.
"ETHIOPIA shall soon stretch out her hands unto God".....Psalm 68:vs 31

"Are ye not as children of the ETHIOPIANS unto me, O children of Israel"?....Amos 9: vs 7