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Poll
Question: What do you think of ST:Voyager?
It wasn't bad, but wasn't that good either. - 5 (14.7%)
It wasn't bad, but wasn't that good either. - 10 (29.4%)
Pretty good. - 9 (26.5%)
It was excellent. - 9 (26.5%)
Huh? They made a Trek after the Original Series? - 1 (2.9%)
Trek sucks. - 0 (0%)
Total Voters: 34

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Author Topic: Star Trek: Voyager  (Read 8095 times) Average Rating: 0
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Justin Kissel
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« on: December 19, 2006, 01:27:16 AM »

I grew up watching TNG and DS9, but for some reason I never got into Voyager. I would watch it from time to time, and I liked the Harry Kim and Doctor characters, but nothing really ever caught my attention. Spike started running a marathon of Voyager yesterday, and I caught a couple episodes, and plan on watching as many as I can the rest of the week to give it another shot. So... if anyone out there really likes it, could you maybe share what makes it enjoyable to you? What am I missing?
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« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2006, 01:33:17 AM »

It had some good episodes, but as a whole it didn't compare to TOS, TNG, or DS9...perhaps it was comprable with ENT. I liked Seven and Tuvok, could tolerate Chakotay, Torres, and Paris, but hated the Captain, Doctor, Kim, and most of all, Neelix...he was like an extra annoying version of Wesley, and that's saying something. I might pirate the episodes someday, but it's unlikely i'll buy them.
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« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2006, 01:56:52 AM »

It was worth watching just for 7of9.
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« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2006, 02:00:22 AM »

"Quick Mr. Two-Spocks!  Re-invigorate the toaster matrix to compensate for fluctuations in the microwave induction unit!  Those wiener torpedos have got to be ready for launch lunch!"   Shocked

I thought that it pretty much sucked until about the time Seven came into the picture.  After that, IMHO there were some really awesome episodes.  The writing seemed to really improve, and the whole thing just seemed to gell a lot better.

....hated....most of all, Neelix...he was like an extra annoying version of Wesley, and that's saying something.

Shoot him on sight!  Man, I used to hate it when the writers would use him to represent the audience in asking the question:  "How do we do that?"  Or when he would invent some ridiculous new omelette of some kind in the galley and foist it upon some unsuspecting bridge officers.  What did Kes see in him?  Ridiculous!  
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« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2006, 02:01:33 AM »

Quote
I liked Seven....

I think she's your soul mate, GiC.  
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« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2006, 02:12:41 AM »

I think it's a fine Trek series.  Of course, nothing will ever approach the awesomely goodness that is The Next Generation, but, it's not a bad second.

Deep Space Nine?  Whoever made that show is a sick, sick, person.  I mean, who makes a Star Trek... where the main craft doesn't move?

Good Points about Voyager:

Seven of Nine
Plenty of BORG episodes (gotta have em)
Seven of Nine
Several Q Continuum episodes (gotta have those, too)
Seven of Nine

Looks like a good series to me.

 Grin
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« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2006, 02:22:04 AM »

Apparently, I wasn't the only one with a thing for Seven.  Hehe.

It was the first Trek series I started watching...so it was just decent.

They are all pretty good.
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« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2006, 02:39:44 AM »

Actually I think everyone had a thing for 7. Everyone, that is, but me. *shrugs*  I mean, her assets were obvious... maybe a little too obvious. I'd rather watch a Jadzia Dax or Leeta, whose assets were also obvious, but not quite so over-exposed (pardon the pun) in the mainstream media.

And anyone who speaks ill of DS9 deserves Trek exile.  Smiley It may have been the most un-Trek-like, but it was also the more realistic, of the Treks. Besides, they caved and gave you nay sayers a ship fairly early on, and a fancy prototype warship (later with a cloaking device) to boot! Anyway, back to Voyager watching tomorrow I guess...
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« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2006, 02:56:19 AM »

Ya but Voyager had two Delta Flyers.

I think Voyager appealed to alot who had watched the other series, because the Delta Quadrant is far enough removed that the show had some creative leeway while still including old standbys.

Some awesome episodes:
Barge of the Dead
Going back in time to 20th century San Fran
Series Finale
the episode with Andy Dick
Seven's multiple personality's
anything Hirogen (ie WW2 Holodeck)
that Irish village on the Holodeck
the Borg Children
Q's son

Wow I need to get a life. I don't even watch Voyager anymore. My life is consumed by Canadian Tire...I am such a lifer. One of two male cashiers...benefits. Lolz
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« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2006, 03:30:35 AM »

Actually I think everyone had a thing for 7. Everyone, that is, but me.

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« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2006, 06:05:58 AM »

Actually I think everyone had a thing for 7. Everyone, that is, but me. *shrugs*  I mean, her assets were obvious... maybe a little too obvious. I'd rather watch a Jadzia Dax or Leeta, whose assets were also obvious, but not quite so over-exposed (pardon the pun) in the mainstream media.

And anyone who speaks ill of DS9 deserves Trek exile.  Smiley It may have been the most un-Trek-like, but it was also the more realistic, of the Treks. Besides, they caved and gave you nay sayers a ship fairly early on, and a fancy prototype warship (later with a cloaking device) to boot! Anyway, back to Voyager watching tomorrow I guess...

I agree completely (on both counts - 7 of 9 always looked like she'd need some sort of back brace to me). In my opinion DS9 was the best Trek series of all, mainly because it didn't fall completely to Roddenberry's naive, 'the future will be a utopian place where money and religion have been banished forever' idea. Much more realistic, especially psychologically.

Of course, generally speaking Star Trek was way too optimistic for this SF fan - I greatly prefer my dystopias, to be honest.

James
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« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2006, 07:54:31 AM »

Actually I think everyone had a thing for 7. Everyone, that is, but me. *shrugs*  I mean, her assets were obvious... maybe a little too obvious. I'd rather watch a Jadzia Dax or Leeta, whose assets were also obvious, but not quite so over-exposed (pardon the pun) in the mainstream media.

It was more than just the assets with Seven, it was also the hardware...and by that I of course mean the borg enhancements...integrated human and machine with a cold and reserved logical approach to life, what's not to like? Is not that the eventual goal towards which we seek to evolove ourselves?
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« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2006, 09:08:12 AM »

Is not that the eventual goal towards which we seek to evolove ourselves?
"evolove"? Does this Freudian slip reveal more than you intended about this thing you have for Seven? Wink
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« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2006, 09:19:30 AM »

I'll take Jadzia's spots over Seven's hardware any day.

Of course, Sharon Valerii leaves 'em both in the dust.  Cheesy
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« Reply #14 on: December 19, 2006, 11:12:18 AM »

I think she's your soul mate, GiC.  

Nektarie, you have noooo idea how much you made GiC's day with that comment.... Wink

Unless, of course, you could arrange for a meeting between GiC and T'Pau...
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« Reply #15 on: December 19, 2006, 12:14:38 PM »

I watched the first season of this when it came out (1994?), but I got busy with school and kind of drifted off. From what I remember, I quite liked it. I really liked Captain Janeway (perhaps it's because I had a thing for Kate Mulgrew, who reminded me so much of Kate Hepburn).
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« Reply #16 on: December 19, 2006, 02:29:47 PM »

I watched a few episodes yesterday and the writing was really horrible -- to be honest, all the Star Treks writing is incredibly corny, but for some reason Voyager can't get away with it.  The Captain's acting is ugh, realllly bad, but because I like to know what happens, I continue to watch.  I'd probably get into it because I have no qualms about enjoying a show that is just poorly constructed.

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« Reply #17 on: December 19, 2006, 02:36:37 PM »

I too think Janeway was terrible.  It was so cheesy and felt like an annoying family picnic.  Even Picard wouldn't let TNG get that bad.  Paris was an enjoyable character, though.  He provided some counter-action.  When you get down to it, though, I think DS9 was the best series by far.  I think it was the show that really became the most human, best and worst.  And I'll never forget the episode where Sisko challenged the Vulcans to a baseball game and Worf's comment later when trying to tag out a missing Vulcan. "Find him and Kill Him!"
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« Reply #18 on: December 19, 2006, 03:11:10 PM »

I don't know, for some reason I couldn't get into Deep Space Nine. I guess the travel aspect is an important part of Star Trek's appeal to me. I liked the idea of the Voyager getting marooned in the outer galaxy.
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« Reply #19 on: December 19, 2006, 03:17:27 PM »

The Voyager episode with "Arachnia Queen of the Spider People" was great fun and a wonderful tribute to an earlier SF genre.

 Speaking of which, the DS9 episode "Far Beyond the Stars" is superb with the referencing to the Golden Age of SF and the pulp writers and all. While they're not exact copies of some real SF writers, I think that (for example) the "Kira" equivalent was C.L. Moore while the "Julian" was like Henry Kuttner her husband.  It was common for women SF writers to use initials in that way, others being D. C. Fontana (who wrote some Star Trek) and Ursula K. LeGuin was "U.K." which she said stood for  "Ulysses Kingfisher"

The "O'brian" with writing robot stories is like Isaac Asimov in that way, though maybe not as much in personality. The editor might have been like John Campbell or Hugo Gernsback or some other figures from the time.

I could go on, but I'll stop for now with just saying that it's a powerful story and very well done.

Ebor
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« Reply #20 on: December 19, 2006, 03:18:34 PM »

Oh, and just to date me some more, I watched the first airing of the first episode of Star Trek (the Original series) and I've been on SF ever since.  Grin

Ebor
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« Reply #21 on: December 19, 2006, 03:21:05 PM »

Unless, of course, you could arrange for a meeting between GiC and T'Pau...

And what could be wrong with being Vulcan?  <one raised eyebrow glyph>

(recall in the "What ST type are you?" quiz that I scored as Mr. Spock.  I'd put a smilie here, but it might not be logical.)

Ebor

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« Reply #22 on: December 19, 2006, 03:39:23 PM »

Ebor,

Now you didn't have to go and share that fact, lol. Though it probably gives you a perspective that few of the rest of us have.

dantxny

Quote
I think it was the show that really became the most human, best and worst.

Yeah, even though I really enjoyed quite a bit of the series, my favorite two episodes were both very dark ones. In the ep. In the Pale Moonlight, Sisko and Garak trick the Romulans into entering the Federation/Dominion war, by lying to a Romulan senator, and then by murdering him in such a way as to point the murder towards the Dominion. And in Duet, a man claims to be an infamous war criminal who had killed many Bajorans, making claims along the way which must have put GIC in heaven, such as:

"You saw what we wanted you to see. Do you know who started the rumors about brutality at Gallitep? Gul Darhe'el himself. Now there was a leader. A brilliant, extraordinary man. He knew that to rule by fear was to rule completely. Why bother with actual mass murder, when the mere reports of such incidents achieved the same effect."

"No, no, no, Major... I'm sorry, but you can't dismiss me that easily. I did what needed to be done. My men understood that... which is why they loved me. I'd order them to go out and murder Bajoran scum, and they would do it... They'd come back covered in blood... and still feel clean. Yes, Major... clean. And why did they feel that way? Because they were clean!"

Kira: "Nothing justifies genocide!"
Marritza: "What you call genocide, I call a day's work."

GIC

Quote
It was more than just the assets with Seven, it was also the hardware...and by that I of course mean the borg enhancements...integrated human and machine with a cold and reserved logical approach to life, what's not to like?

I guess if that's what strikes your fancy  Smiley
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« Reply #23 on: December 19, 2006, 04:18:39 PM »

Yeah, even though I really enjoyed quite a bit of the series, my favorite two episodes were both very dark ones. In the ep. In the Pale Moonlight, Sisko and Garak trick the Romulans into entering the Federation/Dominion war, by lying to a Romulan senator, and then by murdering him in such a way as to point the murder towards the Dominion.

I'll agree with you on that one.  In the Pale Moonlight was probably the best episode of the entire series, especially when Garak is weighing the situation at the end.  "And if your conscience is bothering you, you should soothe it with the knowledge that you may have just saved the entire Alpha Quadrant, and all it cost was the life of one Romulan senator, one criminal, and the self-respect of one Starfleet Officer. I don't know about you, but I'd call that a bargain."  Forget the syrupy idealism of the other Treks; DS9 was far more realistic and far better television.
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« Reply #24 on: December 19, 2006, 04:42:06 PM »

Oh, I'd definitly agree too.  In the Pale Moonlight was terrific.  Then with the end of having Sisko tell himself, "I can live with it."

My other favourite one had to be actually a little more light where Sisko wasn't sure whether he was a captain on DS9 or a SF writer in the racial fights on the 50s.
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« Reply #25 on: December 19, 2006, 05:28:38 PM »

My other favourite one had to be actually a little more light where Sisko wasn't sure whether he was a captain on DS9 or a SF writer in the racial fights on the 50s.

That's "Far Beyond the Stars"  Smiley  It's also where we see Marc Alaimo's face since he played Gul Dukat.  He and "Weyoun" are the corrupt cops. 

Elim Garak was a fascinating character who one never really fully knew what he was thinking or doing. "The Wire" was one of his stories.   And the developement of Dukat over the years was excellent as well as highly complicated.

I have to confess though, I really liked the story "The House of Quark" where Quark ends up married to a Klingon woman.  The sheer concept of explaining crooked accounting to the Klingon High Council is priceless.  Cheesy

The early years of Jadzia Dax also had some very good ideas and stories, and the acting of a young woman with the mannerisms of an *old* male friend of Sisko was well thought out and done.

Ebor
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« Reply #26 on: December 19, 2006, 05:35:32 PM »

Ebor,

Now you didn't have to go and share that fact, lol. Though it probably gives you a perspective that few of the rest of us have.

40 years worth of perspective. Or it's a warning that I'm a geek.... but you probably knew that already.  Grin  (and I really *can* raise only one eyebrow.  I practiced when I was 11 until I could do it.)



Quote
And in Duet, a man claims to be an infamous war criminal who had killed many Bajorans, making claims along the way which must have put GIC in heaven, such as:

"You saw what we wanted you to see. Do you know who started the rumors about brutality at Gallitep? Gul Darhe'el himself. Now there was a leader. A brilliant, extraordinary man. He knew that to rule by fear was to rule completely. Why bother with actual mass murder, when the mere reports of such incidents achieved the same effect."

"No, no, no, Major... I'm sorry, but you can't dismiss me that easily. I did what needed to be done. My men understood that... which is why they loved me. I'd order them to go out and murder Bajoran scum, and they would do it... They'd come back covered in blood... and still feel clean. Yes, Major... clean. And why did they feel that way? Because they were clean!"

Kira: "Nothing justifies genocide!"
Marritza: "What you call genocide, I call a day's work."

Here's the link for "Memory Alpha" (and what episode of TOS is that from Trek fans?  Wink )
http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Main_Page
and it's entry for "Duet"
http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Duet

Ebor

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« Reply #27 on: December 19, 2006, 06:38:38 PM »

Yeah, even though I really enjoyed quite a bit of the series, my favorite two episodes were both very dark ones. In the ep. In the Pale Moonlight, Sisko and Garak trick the Romulans into entering the Federation/Dominion war, by lying to a Romulan senator, and then by murdering him in such a way as to point the murder towards the Dominion.

I must say, I believe that was my favourite trek episode of all time. And the one that truly made me like Garak.

Quote
And in Duet, a man claims to be an infamous war criminal who had killed many Bajorans, making claims along the way which must have put GIC in heaven, such as:...

Well as the title of another DS9 episode quoted Cicero, 'Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges' Wink

Quote
GIC

I guess if that's what strikes your fancy  Smiley

Guess you wont be first in line to have a computer implanted into your brain then? Good...less competition Grin
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« Reply #28 on: December 19, 2006, 07:32:57 PM »

GIC

Quote
Guess you wont be first in line to have a computer implanted into your brain then? Good...less competition

Actually I wouldn't have a problem with that, I just don't like the "cold and logical" thing. If we were all cold and logical, I fear that the superiority of women and the fun of men would be lost. Besides, who's to say that a synthesis of man and machine* couldn't be just as emotional, irrational, etc.?  Smiley


* Though, as is commonly pointed out in Trek episodes, humans are machines as well, just machines of a different type.
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« Reply #29 on: December 19, 2006, 07:54:48 PM »

Actually I wouldn't have a problem with that, I just don't like the "cold and logical" thing. If we were all cold and logical, I fear that the superiority of women and the fun of men would be lost.

This is another element of Seven I like, which the writers also played with in T'pol though to a lesser degree, though she conducted herself in a cold and logical manner in day to day life she was perfectly capable of indulging in and exploring her passions and emotions if she so desired and she often did. She essentially had the best of both worlds. The passions are great and marvelous things, though they should be ruled by, rather than rule, reason.

Quote
Besides, who's to say that a synthesis of man and machine* couldn't be just as emotional, irrational, etc.?  Smiley

Oh, i'm sure it could be...though at least then the problem could be fixed by editing the code...I fear the patch for a biological machine is a bit more difficult to come by.

Quote
* Though, as is commonly pointed out in Trek episodes, humans are machines as well, just machines of a different type.

Granted, though biological machines, at least the ones we know of, have substantial flaws and weaknesses that are not easily fixed (though there are some strengths we can learn from and retain in some form)...thus, our evolution from biological to mechanical would seem like the most natural path to pursue.

(Now I wonder how deeply people are going to disturbed by this revealing my true colours Grin)
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« Reply #30 on: December 19, 2006, 08:58:31 PM »

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Now I wonder how deeply people are going to disturbed by this revealing my true colours

Nah, we're still stuck on the 7 part Wink
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« Reply #31 on: December 19, 2006, 09:01:55 PM »

Nah, we're still stuck on the 7 part Wink

Ah yes, how could I forget my own philosophy so quickly, distract the masses with emotion and you can push anything upon them without their noticing Wink

Seven is a most attractive young lady, is she not Grin
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« Reply #32 on: December 19, 2006, 10:02:20 PM »


Seven is a most attractive young lady, is she not Grin

Oh, yeah!  Grin The only redeeming part of that whole lousy program!

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« Reply #33 on: December 20, 2006, 05:26:41 PM »

GIC

Actually I wouldn't have a problem with that, I just don't like the "cold and logical" thing. If we were all cold and logical....

Now why would logical necessarily go along with "cold"? There's Data to look at as an example and I may have logic and reason in net discourse, but I don't think that I'm "cold".   Wink

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« Reply #34 on: December 20, 2006, 05:43:38 PM »

For those who feel like researching more on the subject, Spike TV (for those lucky enough to have cable) is doing a weeklong "marathon" of Voyager episodes: something like 9am to 6 or 7 pm all week.  For those who feel like seeing a lot of them in a short period of time.
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« Reply #35 on: December 20, 2006, 06:54:50 PM »

For those who feel like researching more on the subject, Spike TV (for those lucky enough to have cable) is doing a weeklong "marathon" of Voyager episodes: something like 9am to 6 or 7 pm all week. 

HOLD ME BACK!!!!!!!!!!!  Wow, it looks like I'll have to put off my Marlon Brando signature collection (I'm not kidding!) DVDs viewing for a whole week now.

LOL.  Cheesy

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« Reply #36 on: December 20, 2006, 06:59:19 PM »

The geeks are getting out of control....time to swing this back to normalcy.  So, how do you all like the new James Bond? 
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« Reply #37 on: December 20, 2006, 07:05:34 PM »

Lol, James Bond is normal? This is a franchise with female names like pus... er, nevermind, I probably can't say that on a Christian forum. Wink
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« Reply #38 on: December 20, 2006, 07:08:18 PM »

For those who feel like researching more on the subject, Spike TV (for those lucky enough to have cable) is doing a weeklong "marathon" of Voyager episodes: something like 9am to 6 or 7 pm all week.  For those who feel like seeing a lot of them in a short period of time.

Bleh.  How about I just break out all of my Battlestar Galactica episodes from iTunes, instead?
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« Reply #39 on: December 20, 2006, 08:36:11 PM »

The geeks are getting out of control....time to swing this back to normalcy.  So, how do you all like the new James Bond? 

It's because there's an outlet for it to finally be discussed.  This is taboo in public. 
As we all know, there are three things you, especially men, cannot talk about or modify in public

1.) The fact that it's been more than 48 hours since you last bathed
2.) You can't remember someone's name
3.) You like Star Trek.
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« Reply #40 on: December 20, 2006, 09:39:23 PM »

It's because there's an outlet for it to finally be discussed.  This is taboo in public. 
As we all know, there are three things you, especially men, cannot talk about in public
...
3.) You like Star Trek.

Which is really quite ironic considering the cultural impact it has had, I guess there are just a large number of 'closet trekkies.'
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« Reply #41 on: December 20, 2006, 11:05:17 PM »

I have a Klingon Dictionary on my bookshelf, as well as background in both Vulcan and Ferengi linguistics.

I am such a trekkie.
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« Reply #42 on: December 20, 2006, 11:11:59 PM »

I used to watch the Next Generation in the mid-90s, and I admit to still liking the show a lot. I enjoyed the movies (or most of them). But I never got into Trekkie-ism too much.

I am, however, a huge Ringer! (Though I don't buy all the junk and wear FRODO LIVES tee-shirts---I think Tolkien would have been appalled at such crass commercialism.)
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« Reply #43 on: December 21, 2006, 04:49:25 PM »

In the SF conventions I used to go to BC (before children) "trekkie" is looked on as derogatory from an non-fan (like in news articles.)  The proper term is "Trekker".  Smiley 

And yes there's "Ringers" (which I'm also a geek on, as some here may have noticed).

And if we're going to get to mention other areas of fandom what about "Babylon 5"?  That was a terrific series.

Ebor

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« Reply #44 on: December 21, 2006, 04:53:19 PM »

I have a Klingon Dictionary on my bookshelf, as well as background in both Vulcan and Ferengi linguistics.

I am such a trekkie.

Ka' Pla!

 Wink

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« Reply #45 on: December 21, 2006, 05:40:26 PM »

And having a *very* tenuous Star Trek link, I've just noticed that in the last few postings, I have become a forum "Archon"

Festival!! Festival!!!

 Grin Cheesy

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« Reply #46 on: December 21, 2006, 08:46:45 PM »

And having a *very* tenuous Star Trek link, I've just noticed that in the last few postings, I have become a forum "Archon"

Festival!! Festival!!!

 Grin Cheesy

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« Reply #47 on: December 22, 2006, 11:12:47 AM »

It was the will of Landru that you should become an Archon.

Excellent, Apotheoun!  You got it. 

Though I'm not sure how far this should go, since the Archons were "not of the Body".   Wink


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« Reply #48 on: December 22, 2006, 11:25:51 AM »

Congratulations on your achievement!  Grin
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« Reply #49 on: December 22, 2006, 11:52:11 AM »

Thank you. I'm trying to come up with some kind of personalized title.  I'm not sure it would be appropriate to try for "Maia" and it already says "Vanyar" after all.

Then again, maybe it's telling me that I post too much.  Grin

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« Reply #50 on: January 06, 2007, 10:33:29 PM »

Grrr, they've now put ST:Voyager on late nights in place of MXC on some days. I mean, sure I just bought the first season of MXC on DVD, but I'm used to having a late night fix of it.
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« Reply #51 on: January 08, 2007, 09:45:49 AM »

I still think TNG was the best because of all of the Science and Engineering that was involved. That's really the corner stone of Star Trek is its use of technology and science and engineering to show what can be accomplished given time. As for looking for a Utopia, isn't that what us Orthodox look for after its all said and done?

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« Reply #52 on: January 08, 2007, 11:32:28 AM »

I voted 'It wasn't bad, but wasn't that good either' and then saw that most here agree.

I grew up with a first-generation Trekkie and so know more about the original series than I usually care to admit. Smiley I got the archons/Landru/'you're not of the body' thing. Captain Kirk/William Shatner is unfairly criticised: he was great in TOS and was a respected stage actor (Shakespeare at Stratford, Broadway... probably where the famous Shatnerian diction comes from) before 'joining Starfleet'. Handsome, the all-American hero (not bad for a Canadian): it worked. He didn't get too hammy until the movies (most of which were stupid IMO) IIRC. The brilliant, restrained, conflicted Mr Spock is one of the greatest TV characters invented. And Nurse Chapel was hot (which was of more interest to me than the ray-gun or philosophical stuff). Smiley There were a few good stories. Roddenberry wasn't trying to create real science fiction (but had a couple of talented writers) but used the aliens-and-ray guns stories to make points about present-day (1960s) society and politics: 'A Private Little War' was really about Vietnam for example. He reckoned if he wrapped it up in the trappings of kiddie sci-fi he could get away with it. That said as I grew up I went off it when I realised, as a magazine article pointed out, that the 'good guys', the Federation, were really totalitarians, as shown by Kirk violating 'the Prime Directive' of non-interference when he ran across an 'alien' culture he didn't like, spreading the American, erm, Federation way. The Federation was obviously 1960s America, the Enterprise its military. Oh, and the fact that most of the 'aliens' looked suspiciously human and spoke perfect English (sure, the 'universal translator'... shyeah, right... you've never met these people before; the gizmo won't work!) got to me.

'TNG' was pretty well done, nice effects, some good stories and some likeable and even world-class actors, and the Kirkian approach was ditched in favour of the Prime Directive. This Federation was more like the EU or UN with some teeth than the US. Riker seemed like the executive officer (deputy captain... 'Number One' comes from the British Navy; Roddenberry loved the Hornblower stories of C.S. Forester) of a real Navy ship, the tough disciplinarian doing the captain's dirty work in that department. Gates McFadden reminded me of an old girlfriend. Smiley Big step up: having an actual international cast (thanks to better transport and a bigger budget?) not just North Americans doing vaudeville-like stage accents ('Kyeptin!' or 'Ye canna break the laws of physics'). But the human, English-speaking aliens were still a problem. From here on they usually had foam rubber glued to their foreheads, a go at realism I imagine. Worf was kind of a cutout ('A warrior' blah blah blah).

'DS9' had potential, like the bar scene in Star Wars as a whole series, rough and un-'Trek'-like. But I think it went downhill into 'space opera' and typical Trekness. Didn't watch much of it. Terry Farrell was lovely; Nana Visitor wasn't bad either. René Auberjonois as Odo the shape-shifter was a nice touch. I liked the one where Quark and his nephew were the Roswell aliens and the implanted translator gizmos in them didn't work so the Army people and we were totally lost hearing them speak Ferengi.

The Maquis were cool: the libertarians of this allegory, pointing out that the Federation weren't necessarily the good guys. (That and Michelle Forbes was a knockout.)

'Voyager', from what little I saw of it, had as a cartoonist said plots that were a cross between 'Battlestar Galactica' and 'Gilligan's Island'. Expected Kate Mulgrew at any time to whip out a captain's hat and whomp the blond guy, Paris, with it. Couldn't buy into the black Vulcan ('the brother from another planet', 'Tuvok Shakur'): I think the Vulcans and Romulans - who are cool - are supposed to be based on the Japanese. The holographic doctor (with a 'tude!) was a nice touch and Kes was adorable. Liked how her character ended up, kind of apotheosised. I understood Jeri Ryan's appeal but didn't feel that way.

'Enterprise' had some potential but as far as I could tell from what little I saw it was typical 'TNG'-ish cash-cow stuff. Didn't look retro. Liked having Hoshi, a linguist, in the crew, finally acknowledging that they are trying to talk to aliens. Jolene Blalock as a sex symbol was overrated.

Roddenberry was militantly anti-religious but I understand that changed in the shows after he died: the Bajorans' (Michelle Forbes' people) faith got some respect for example.
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« Reply #53 on: January 09, 2007, 03:04:14 PM »

I havn't read every post, but most of them.  I have to put my 2 cents in. 

I HATE VOYAGER!!!!!  IT IS THE MOST HORRIBLE STAR-TREK EVER!!!!! 

DS9 is the most amazing one.  TNG was good too, but I LOVE DS9. Its so awesome! 
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« Reply #54 on: January 10, 2007, 10:25:12 PM »

Don't keep it in. Let us know how you *really* feel.

 Wink Cheesy

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« Reply #55 on: January 10, 2007, 10:26:04 PM »

I HATE VOYAGER!!!!!  IT IS THE MOST HORRIBLE STAR-TREK EVER!!!!! 

Two words:

Spock's Brain.




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« Reply #56 on: January 10, 2007, 10:26:46 PM »

Resistance is Futile Angry
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« Reply #57 on: January 10, 2007, 10:31:10 PM »

Quote
Captain Kirk/William Shatner is unfairly criticised: he was great in TOS and was a respected stage actor (Shakespeare at Stratford, Broadway... probably where the famous Shatnerian diction comes from) before 'joining Starfleet'. Handsome, the all-American hero (not bad for a Canadian): it worked. He didn't get too hammy until the movies (most of which were stupid IMO) IIRC. The brilliant, restrained, conflicted Mr Spock is one of the greatest TV characters invented. And Nurse Chapel was hot (which was of more interest to me than the ray-gun or philosophical stuff).

Three words: T. J. Hooker

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« Reply #58 on: January 10, 2007, 10:31:22 PM »

Resistance is Futile Angry

If less then 1 Ohm..

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« Reply #59 on: January 10, 2007, 10:39:02 PM »

If less then 1 Ohm..

Ebor

And if greater than 1 Ohm....IT IS NO LONGER FUTILE!!! 

That may have been implied... Huh    Wink
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« Reply #60 on: January 10, 2007, 10:40:17 PM »

Don't keep it in. Let us know how you *really* feel.

 Wink Cheesy

Ebor

Well now that you mention it....

(answer pending...could take a while, I want to come up with something really whimsical!  Or I may just add exclamation points next time, hopefully this will sufice for the grand Archon)
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« Reply #61 on: January 10, 2007, 11:27:55 PM »

Well now that you mention it....

(answer pending...could take a while, I want to come up with something really whimsical!  Or I may just add exclamation points next time, hopefully this will sufice for the grand Archon)

Worf: I do not smirk. But if I did, this would be a good opportunity.
from "The Darkness and the Light" DS9

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« Reply #62 on: January 10, 2007, 11:37:23 PM »

Worf was a fun character Smiley Sometimes just a look from him was laugh out loud funny. At other times, just a single word rom him made you laugh (e.g., when he is greedily eating Riker's eggs on the Enterprise, and looks at up his astonished shipmates, and says in his deep, matter of face voice: "delicious".)
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« Reply #63 on: January 11, 2007, 05:34:21 PM »

Remember

"I am *not* a Merry Man." ?

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« Reply #64 on: January 11, 2007, 06:19:24 PM »

Qoy qeylIs puqloD.
Qoy puqbe'pu'.
yoHbogh matlhbogh je SuvwI'
Say'moHchu' may' 'Iw.
maSuv manong 'ej maHoHchu'.
nI'be' yInmaj 'ach wovqu'.
batlh maHeghbej 'ej yo' qIjDaq vavpu'ma'
DImuv. pa' reH maSuvtaHqu'.
mamevQo'. maSuvtaH. ma'ov.
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« Reply #65 on: February 08, 2007, 11:52:13 AM »

I was looking back at this thread and noticed that it has been tagged with "heretical".  I'm not sure why unless it is could be from a rabid "Star Wars" fan.  Grin Wink

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« Reply #66 on: February 08, 2007, 03:03:08 PM »

Hmm, or perhaps someone who can't fathom there being any legit Star Trek other than the original. I've come across such people (my Dad is one actually) and they seem rather like KJV-only people in their stance.  Cool
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« Reply #67 on: February 08, 2007, 03:06:24 PM »

Hmm, or perhaps someone who can't fathom there being any legit Star Trek other than the original. I've come across such people (my Dad is one actually) and they seem rather like KJV-only people in their stance.  Cool

Ah! Good thought.  You could be right on that.  (and an interesting and amusing comparison to KJV-only-ism).

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« Reply #68 on: September 22, 2013, 06:58:13 PM »

Resistance is Futile Angry

Resistance if fertile.  Cool
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« Reply #69 on: September 22, 2013, 07:01:05 PM »

Two Bumps
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« Reply #70 on: September 24, 2013, 08:42:07 AM »

With the re-awakening of this thread it struck me that there was no mention of ST: Enterprise.  I'm catching up with them on Netflix and and a good bit through the 1st season.  There were some quite decent stories and characters in that one. The theme song was a bit jarring/out of pattern.  But there was some interesting consideration of such things as the very first encounters with some aliens such as the Andorians and the Ferengi.
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« Reply #71 on: September 24, 2013, 09:08:10 PM »

With the re-awakening of this thread it struck me that there was no mention of ST: Enterprise.  I'm catching up with them on Netflix and and a good bit through the 1st season.  There were some quite decent stories and characters in that one. The theme song was a bit jarring/out of pattern.  But there was some interesting consideration of such things as the very first encounters with some aliens such as the Andorians and the Ferengi.

The stories about the ferengi and the Borg were awful.  Just shows you how much they were scraping at the bottom of the barell for ideas.
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« Reply #72 on: September 24, 2013, 10:21:08 PM »

I haven't gotten to any where Captain Archer and his crew encounter any Borg and I've only seen the first one with the Ferengi.  But I thought that it had some interesting points about how they interact with each other and it showed some differences within the race.  There Andorians are interesting (and I saw "Journey to Babel" with the first Andorian when it first aired) and complex. I also like that the tech has advanced that their antennae move... so I'm a Geek, you knew that.  Wink

So far I haven't seen any that were scraping any barrels.  "Spock's Brain" "The Omega Glory"  those were ummmm not high on the heap.

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"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis

The Katana of Reasoned Discussion

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« Reply #73 on: September 24, 2013, 10:24:10 PM »

First 50 Rules of acquisition:

 Once you have their money ... never give it back.
Never pay more for an acquisition than you have to.
Never allow family to stand in the way of opportunity.
A man is only worth the sum of his possessions. (From Enterprise, episode "Acquisition"; sloppy script-writing, as rule 6 (see above) was already given in DS9)
Keep your ears open.
Small print leads to large risk.
Opportunity plus instinct equals profit.
Greed is eternal.
Anything worth doing is worth doing for money.
A deal is a deal ... until a better one comes along.
A contract is a contract is a contract (but only between Ferengi).
A Ferengi without profit is no Ferengi at all.
Satisfaction is not guaranteed.
Never place friendship above profit.
A wise man can hear profit in the wind.
Nothing is more important than your health--except for your money.
There's nothing more dangerous than an honest businessman.
Never make fun of a Ferengi's mother ... insult something he cares about instead.
It never hurts to suck up to the boss.
War is good for business.
Peace is good for business.
She can touch your lobes but never your latinum.
Profit is its own reward.
Never confuse wisdom with luck.
Expand, or die.
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« Reply #74 on: September 24, 2013, 10:27:15 PM »

 Smiley  Thanks Marc
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« Reply #75 on: September 24, 2013, 10:35:32 PM »

I used to have a book of the Rules of Acquisition... though I was let down that it didn't actually have all the rules.
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« Reply #76 on: September 24, 2013, 10:43:16 PM »

Btw, I'm not sure why the poll now has two options for "It wasn't bad, but wasn't that good either." I assume the first one was originally a completely negative one ("It stinks" or something), and somehow it got changed during a server problem, as has happened with other polls on the site. I could be wrong, but I would imagine that's the case.  Huh
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« Reply #77 on: September 24, 2013, 10:45:32 PM »

I enjoyed it. I thought it was good. Voyager was a lot better than TNG, but my hatred of that series is no secret  Grin

I loved the cheesiness of it! Cheesiness is part of what makes Sci-Fi great! Farscape anyone?
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« Reply #78 on: September 24, 2013, 10:47:28 PM »

I used to have a book of the Rules of Acquisition... though I was let down that it didn't actually have all the rules.

It's like the "Seventy Maxims of Maximally Effective Mercenaries"  in the Schlock Mercenary SF web comic by Howard Tayler.  Only about half of them have been revealed as far as I know.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2013, 10:52:30 PM by Ebor » Logged

"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis

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« Reply #79 on: December 19, 2013, 07:38:29 PM »

I was going to start watching Enterprise tonight, but I couldn't pull the trigger. I just couldn't. Bakula may always just be "that Quantum Leap guy" to me  Undecided  So anyway, I decided to work my way through Voyager from beginning to end instead (I already watch TNG and DS9 on a semi-regular basis.) Just got done with the first episode of ST:V. I had to take a break about 4 times. Though that was partially my own fault and not the show. Still, this may be a long 129 hours of television for me.
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« Reply #80 on: December 19, 2013, 09:19:11 PM »

I was going to start watching Enterprise tonight, but I couldn't pull the trigger. I just couldn't. Bakula may always just be "that Quantum Leap guy" to me  Undecided  So anyway, I decided to work my way through Voyager from beginning to end instead (I already watch TNG and DS9 on a semi-regular basis.) Just got done with the first episode of ST:V. I had to take a break about 4 times. Though that was partially my own fault and not the show. Still, this may be a long 129 hours of television for me.

I never could get into Enterprise after enjoying Voyager, DS9, and TNG, it seems I was not the only one, I was not sure at the time, because I was going through difficult issues at home.
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« Reply #81 on: December 20, 2013, 09:02:10 AM »

I liked Voyager ok once Seven of Nine came on. Her character had some depth.

PP
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« Reply #82 on: December 21, 2013, 01:55:51 PM »

I liked Voyager ok once Seven of Nine came on. Her character had some depth.

PP

Ah, Seven of Nine.
What more needs to be said?
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