Topic: Question About Sports Violence

[Asteriktos]

I was at a very well played football game the other day. The Alaska Bears were within three points of the Texas Cacti. The Alaskan Quaterback then threw a long pass to their pro-bowl wide receiver, and the Texan free safety laid a heavy hit into him well after the whistle had blown. Well, the Alaskan tight end was having none of that! He went up to the free safety and picked a fight, as the refs, other players, and the thousands of spectators looked on in anticipation. The Texan got in some good punches, and managed to pull the Alaskan's shirt over his head; but then the Alaskan managed to get his shirt off and landed some nice shots as well, possibly even breaking the Texan's nose. Eventually the refs broke up the fight, when both men became too fatigued to continue. The crowd cheered wildly, as it looked like their man had won the fight. This fight also really energized the Alaskan's team, and they went on to win the game.

Ok, can anyone really see something like that happening in football? Or baseball, or basketball, or even soccer (where they usually limit the violence and murder to the fans)?  Why is this type of conduct accepted, and even expected, in ice hockey? From a Christian perspective, what would make punching the snot out of someone morally acceptable in hockey, and not in football, basketball, or baseball? Is there something different about hockey, that would make it more similar to boxing or MMA? I'm not saying that there's a right or wrong answer, the question(s) just intrique me.

[dantxny]

All's I know is that God accepts it after a head-hunting pitcher hits the batter and the batter charges the mound . . . . especially if that pitcher's from Boston.

[dantxny]

In seriousness, though, looking to the Christian past it's interesting that the Gladiator matches were banned, but racing (which was often violent itself) was not.  I don't know, though, as towards your question

[ozgeorge]

It's just not cricket.....Now there's a gentleman's sport.

[Fr. George]

ISTM that fighting has been a part of N. American hockey for a long time... it's funny to read about unwritten "rules" to the fight (no weapons, no blows below the shoulders, etc), but it makes sense, as the fight is essentially the "gentleman's duel" of hockey.

Depending on your perspective on the issue, it is a good/bad sign that the Peewees and NCAA have mandatory ejections for fighting... But I think it is too well-entrenched in the NHL, and of course it is a fan favorite (google Hockey Fights and see how many sites pop up...)

[Asteriktos]

Depending on your perspective on the issue, it is a good/bad sign that the Peewees and NCAA have mandatory ejections for fighting... But I think it is too well-entrenched in the NHL, and of course it is a fan favorite

The odd thing is, I'm fine with the set up. I just don't understand why. It's ok for an 18 year old to go and see the horrors of war, to be a boxer, to do all sorts of other things, but not fight in a hockey game? But if that 18 year old skipped right to the NHL it's ok?  Don't get me wrong, I'm a hockey fan, and I would be the last person to call for fighting being taken away. I think the use of enforcers, and concepts like a specific group of rough-and-tough players (4th line) are things that makes hockey more interesting. It doesn't have to be Hanson Brothers violent to be interesting. I just think it's curious how we accept certain levels and types of violence in one sport (or level of a sport), but would abhor them in another.

[GiC]

The Empire eventually banned the games, but I dont believe it was until the time of Justinian...the Christian Citizens of a Christian Empire enjoyed the games for several centuries. Justinian just tended to be a puritan of sorts. If both sides are content with the level of violence in a sport, I don't really see why there should be an issue.

[Asteriktos]

That's actually probably a thread unto itself. Most people are probably under the (false) impression that fanatical sports fans are a recent concept. And if it was indeed Justinian, that would make sense, considering the little uprising that happened (I wonder if a bishop rebuked Justinian in the same way that Ambrose is said to have rebuked Theodosius?).

[GiC]

That's actually probably a thread unto itself. Most people are probably under the (false) impression that fanatical sports fans are a recent concept. And if it was indeed Justinian, that would make sense, considering the little uprising that happened (I wonder if a bishop rebuked Justinian in the same way that Ambrose is said to have rebuked Theodosius?).

You are right on that point, Justinian had good cause to be cautious in regard to radical sports fans. Maybe I was being a bit too harsh on him. He was a great Emperor and did many good things, even if he did kill the intellectual development of the Empire by closing the School of Athens, he has to be given credit for his conquests.

[BrotherAidan]

Fighting in hockey actually lessens the potential for violence in the sport.

There is a new book: The Code, the unwritten rules of fighting and retaliation in hockey, by a guy named Bernstein.

Apparently, in the early days, there were stick fights and everything else; then it became codified and the fighters settled it for everyone.

I plan to get the book!

It works! The Penguins aren't taking any crap from anyone this season and opponents aren't taking as many liberties with Crosby.

[Asteriktos]

Fighting in hockey actually lessens the potential for violence in the sport.

As weird (counter-intuitive) as it is, I can definitely see that.

The Penguins aren't taking any crap from anyone this season and opponents aren't taking as many liberties with Crosby

That's true. Though lots of teams (especially the Islanders) seem intent on trying to bait Malkin into retaliating. And never have I hated Satan so much! That smirk really annoys me.

[MichaelArchangelos]

I am from New Zealand, and the main sport here is rugby. Unlike football, it's played without padding, so players often get injured. It's quite common to hear that a certain player won't be playing in the next match due to injury. While it's rare, full-scale fights do break out sometimes, but the players are usually suspended for a certain number of games for it.

[BrotherAidan]

Yes
the Miroslav smirk is loathsome!

but not as bad as the Hatcher whine to the refs; the big, slow Flyers can't keep up in the new NHL and Hatcher sees his future and it looks like a golf course. So he playes dirtier and dirtier and cries to the refs whenever he or someone on his team gets a penalty.

[SouthSerb99]

^BA,

A real hockey guy, I wouldn't expect anything less!!!  Couldn't agree with you more!

Having played Junior hockey in Canada (in North Bay), I can say without doubt, that the more they try to "clean up" hockey, the dirtier the game gets.

It use to be that if you had a problem with a guy on the ice, you dropped the gloves, settled it like men and got on with the game (after 5 minute off setting penalties).  However, since the NHL has seen the demise of the goon, he has been replaced with the much worse "pest".

The goon dropped his gloves (almost always against the other teams goon) for two reasons;  1) to get his team going or 2) as retaliation for going after a "skill" player.

However, the pest has no such M.O.  The pest goes after your knees, the pest hits you with a butt end, the pest gives you a face wash with his glove.  The pest goes after your star player (read Marcus Naslund), while he has his head down and nearly kills him, only to have one of your tougher players (Bertuzzi), in a moment of utter stupidity, go after said pest (Steve Moore), with a cheap shot of his own.

Bottom line is that Wayne Gretzky always had either Dave Semenko or McSorley over his shoulder to ensure he could be Wayne Gretzky.  Mario never had the same type of protection or Mario's numbers would've been even better than they were.

I say, let'm fight!  The league should be calling major penalties and suspesions for illegal stick work (butt ends, spearing & high sticks) as well as cheap shots. 

[BrotherAidan]

Amen

BTW  I got the book on fighting in hockey as a Christmas present; can't wait to read it!