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Author Topic: Communique of the Synod of FYROM Orthodox Church  (Read 1401 times) Average Rating: 0
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« on: December 17, 2006, 03:28:36 AM »

I found the report about the communique from the session of the Synod of FYROM Orthodox Church.
http://www.mpc.org.mk/English/news2.asp?id=1532

In particular, this part attracts some attention:
The Holy Synod of Hierarchs carefully deliberated the communiqué of the Holy Assembly of Hierarchs of the Serbian Orthodox Church and seriously considers restoring the contacts between the two Churches, and will inform on this the other local Orthodox Churches.

Does someone have any information, is there any hope? Personally, I used to be optimistic as long as that seemed possible. That means, for an overly long period of time. But now, especially after the criminal re-imprisonement of His Eminence Archbishop Jovan because of his need to practice his Faith, any expectations of realistic behavior from this group of individuals disappeared. May be the replacement of Archbishop Stefan will demonstrate something different. That is the most hopeful what can be said in this situation! Can be also an illusion.
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Simayan
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« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2006, 01:58:06 PM »

Could I have a description of what this in simple terms? Hehe.
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« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2006, 12:20:45 AM »

Simayan,
Some history can ve found here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonian_Orthodox_Church

This article presents portions of poistions from both sides.
More about unlawful imprisonment of the Confessor of Faith, His Eminence Archbishop Jovan Vraniskovski can be found in this forum, for example here:
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,10349.0.html
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,10166.msg138228.html#msg138228

Serb1389, Cleveland, OzGeorge and SouthSerb99 and all others who provided information and insights on this topic, I just would like to use this opportunity to express my admiration and appreciateion of your great support of Archbishop Jovan.

Personally, I have to admit that years ago, way before I started to write here, I used to consider that the communion has to be restored anyhow and therefore, admission of MOC could be an example of ekonomia, may be an extreme one, but still needed in order to resolve the huge problem. I was so happy when the agreement in Nis has been signed. But after the decision of FYROM Orthodox Church to suddenly change its poistion on 180 degrees and then especially after this crime with an arrest of Archbishop Jovan Vraniskovski, I also had to change my stand on that. This story started as an administrative difficulty, then became a serious canonical problem and later grew into a major issue of Christian integrity. Please let me emphasize that Archbishop Jovan is a native of FYROM.

Also, those who have not done so yet, please sign the petition in support of His Eminence:
http://www.petitiononline.com/3001sd/petition.html
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« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2006, 01:44:05 PM »

Why is it then, you cannot just call the Macedonian Orthodox Church by its name, rather it has to be referred to as FYROM Orthodox Church? Do you think that perhaps this has something to do with the 'schism?'

The Nis Document, as you call it, was a working document. It was signed by every Bishop who attended the talks afterwards. Futhermore, regardless of the outcome of those talks, everything that was ad hoc agreed upon, had to be approved by the Holy Synod of each region Church, and then as Orthodoxy states,  accepted by the people.  SOC Bishops must have known that the Macedonian Synod and the Macedonian people for that matter, would have never accepted not being called Macedonia by the other Churches as they proposed in the Nis Working Accord. Could they have not? Is it possible that our Serbian brethren could be so far removed from their pastoral care that they didn't know the mindset of the Macedonian people?

Let's talk about the TOMOS given by the Serbian Bishops. Was this given out of pastoral care for the Macedonian people, or perhaps was the truth behind it to further the "schism" as you put it? What does His Holiness Patriarch Alexy II have to say about it:
http://www.mpc.org.mk/English/news2.asp?id=828


Also, albeit unfortunate, "the crime" which you refer to with regards to the good Bishop John (Jovan) was not a crime against him. Rather, the Bishop was guilty of pursuading his former Decon in withdrawing monies that were not his. This is the crime, he not only lead astray his spiritual child, but the people in his  Diocese who have rejected him. Both the Deacon (who will not have anything to do with the Bishop now) and Bishop are serving time for this. (Bishop John 1 year, Deacon Toni 5-6 months. The Deacon was released a few days ago and the Bishop, in my opinion, most likey soon) It's unfortunate that such information is not shared with everyone, but certain Bishops use this information to further inflame the situation. Why would you want to futher inflame the situation, is this pastoral care for Orthodox Christians?

I understand that misrepresentations can happen over the internet, but the lack of zeal shown by "universial" Orthodoxy towards the Macedonian people, keeping them in Communial isolation for over 40  years, is just too much. And even if you don't believe they are Macedonian, or disregard them to the depths of your soul, it is common Christian courtesy to at least listen to their side of the story. This has not been done unfortunately. And because of this, Orthodoxy continues to suffer a bit.

Please brothers and sisters, forgive me. Forgive me for the intrusion. Forgive me for not being on equal terms, forgive me for not loving you enough, forgive me for only starting to pray enough .... but please, please don't ask me to forgive you for being who I am.

The Gethsemane Prayer /with an epilogue/
http://www.mpc.org.mk/English/news2.asp?id=850
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« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2006, 01:54:32 PM »

because your Church is Schismatic.
And you are FYROM or Vardarska and Not Macedonia, you guys aren't Greeks, or of The Line of Alexander the Great, and you do not deserve the name or the land. You might as well join the Bulgarians as that is what you are. or the Serbs as that is what you also are.

But you are not Greek, so don't go taking othe rppls names.   
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« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2006, 02:00:44 PM »

because your Church is Schismatic.
And you are FYROM or Vardarska and Not Macedonia, you guys aren't Greeks, or of The Line of Alexander the Great, and you do not deserve the name or the land. You might as well join the Bulgarians as that is what you are. or the Serbs as that is what you also are.

But you are not Greek, so don't go taking othe rppls names.   

The Macedonian Orthodox Church "schism" will never be ecclesiastical, but one of political and national context regarding her name and identity. This is the true schism.

God forgive us all. Forgive me.
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"The one who is free can go wherever he wishes to, in the light of the manifested grace. The captured one will be led by the captor, and will at the same time be convinced that he is his own guide" -- Met. Nahum of Strumica
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« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2006, 02:02:34 PM »

exactly so go join the Bulgarian Orthodox Church or the Serbian Orthodox Church and divide your land amongst the Greeks and Serbs. And live like a Slav, instead of stealing names, history and the Identity of the Greeks.
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« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2006, 02:23:12 PM »

The Macedonian Orthodox Church "schism" will never be ecclesiastical, but one of political and national context regarding her name and identity. This is the true schism.   

Regardless of whether or not the schism is caused by "political and national context" or not, it is still schism (or non-communion, which is the same but sounds less polemical)... And by its nature schism is ecclesiastical, insofar as there is non-communion between the bishops and communities.

So now for my cautionary note: If you'd like to debate the nature of the schism, or the underlying causes, or anything like that, send it to the Private Politics forum please.  I encourage you to do so, as this is an important topic that is affecting world Orthodoxy.  But this is not the forum for it.
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« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2006, 04:07:51 PM »

Regardless of whether or not the schism is caused by "political and national context" or not, it is still schism (or non-communion, which is the same but sounds less polemical)... And by its nature schism is ecclesiastical, insofar as there is non-communion between the bishops and communities.

So now for my cautionary note: If you'd like to debate the nature of the schism, or the underlying causes, or anything like that, send it to the Private Politics forum please.  I encourage you to do so, as this is an important topic that is affecting world Orthodoxy.  But this is not the forum for it.

Thanks. Forgive me.
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"The one who is free can go wherever he wishes to, in the light of the manifested grace. The captured one will be led by the captor, and will at the same time be convinced that he is his own guide" -- Met. Nahum of Strumica
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