Author Topic: Oriental Orthodox Picture of the Day  (Read 89506 times)

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Offline minasoliman

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Re: Oriental Orthodox Picture of the Day
« Reply #855 on: April 25, 2017, 01:22:25 PM »
Memory eternal!

May their prayers be with us!
Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Oriental Orthodox Picture of the Day
« Reply #856 on: April 25, 2017, 03:00:41 PM »
May the Memory of the victims be Eternal.

It is now.  May we have their intercession and blessing. 
How can you be so incarnationally constipated?

Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Re: Oriental Orthodox Picture of the Day
« Reply #857 on: April 25, 2017, 03:25:30 PM »
May the Memory of the victims be Eternal.

It is now.  May we have their intercession and blessing.

Amen.
Worship is theology, so a church which brings Evangelical and Charismatic "praise & worship" into its corporate life is no longer Orthodox.  It is, by definition, heterodox.  Those "Orthodox" leaders who make theological arguments for the incorporation of heteropraxis into the life of the Church are heretics.

http://returntoorthodoxy.com/

Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Re: Oriental Orthodox Picture of the Day
« Reply #858 on: April 25, 2017, 04:00:38 PM »
Modern Charismatic Movement Similar to Charismaticism in the Early Church?
https://blogs.ancientfaith.com/orthodoxbridge/4711-2/

I would be interested in your ideas on it as well as how Fr. Trader's book addresses the topics in it.

Peace.

I clicked on the link and then...

Quote
About the author.  Hal Smith converted to Orthodoxy at age 17.  He works as a Russian-English translator and attends an OCA parish in Eastern Pennsylvania.  He administers Rakovskii – a website about Old Testament prophecies.



I'm curious as to the author's qualifications.  Is he a historian?  An anthropologist?  A theologian?  Just a hobbyist?  What qualifies him to publish an article on this subject?

I can understand the similarities between the phenomena.
Maybe it is a more fundamental or broader psychological issue: Maybe the Hellenistic pagans and their oracles sometimes were doing similar things (eg. "tongues). The Methodists' 19th c. "Great Awakening" looks very similar to me in major respects, even though Methodists nowadays are about as mellow as the Presbyterians and UCC.

One time during the Great Awakening, IIRC, a young man entered a dance hall and a girl invited him to dance, but instead of dancing, he started preaching Low Church Protestantism, and suddenly the bodies hit the floor, "thud" "thud", the young man recalled. It was a kind of 19th century "slain in the spirit" effect like a stage hypnotist putting a crowd to sleep.

I believe it's partly as you describe here and partly demonic possession.

There is a thread discussing Fr. Trader's book here:
In Peace Let Us Pray to the Lord!
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php?topic=16897.0

It sounds from the thread that he and Fr. Romanides claim that the Biblical gift of tongues was an inaudible (except for the Pentecost event) "prayer of the heart", which doesn't sound correct to me. In any case, I know that it would be better to consult his book directly, and there are several aspects to Pentecostals, not just Tongues.

Read the book and judge for yourself.  I don't agree with the guesswork made in the thread you link to, most especially LBK's notion that the tongues in Corinth were something akin to what occurs among modern Pentecostals and Charismatics.  Just about the only thing I would co-sign in the thread would be this:

I haven't read this book, but I have met Fr. Alexis.

In so far as Fr. Alexis is a canonically ordained Orthodox Christian priest, an Athonite monk of many years experience, a graduate of an Orthodox theological seminary and a former lecturer in Patristics, I would be far more inclined to take his word over that of an online pundit on Amazon.com, whose identity, legitimacy and, most importantly, connection to the Orthodox Church is completely unknown.

Just a thought.

Or as one of the reviewers on the amazon page says:

Quote
Father Trader makes the point not that tongues is silent, but rather that it does not consist of inane babbling.

https://www.amazon.com/Peace-Let-Pray-Lord-Interpretation/dp/1928653065/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1216476433&sr=1-1
Worship is theology, so a church which brings Evangelical and Charismatic "praise & worship" into its corporate life is no longer Orthodox.  It is, by definition, heterodox.  Those "Orthodox" leaders who make theological arguments for the incorporation of heteropraxis into the life of the Church are heretics.

http://returntoorthodoxy.com/

Offline rakovsky

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Re: Oriental Orthodox Picture of the Day
« Reply #859 on: April 25, 2017, 04:21:33 PM »

Or as one of the reviewers on the amazon page says:

Quote
Father Trader makes the point not that tongues is silent, but rather that it does not consist of inane babbling.

https://www.amazon.com/Peace-Let-Pray-Lord-Interpretation/dp/1928653065/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1216476433&sr=1-1
That makes sense.

I would like to talk about the charismatic issue with you on another thread.
I won't be argumentative. Would you be OK with that?
The ocean, impassable by men, and the world beyond it are directed by the same ordinances of the Master. ~ I Clement 20

Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Re: Oriental Orthodox Picture of the Day
« Reply #860 on: April 26, 2017, 08:37:22 AM »

Or as one of the reviewers on the amazon page says:

Quote
Father Trader makes the point not that tongues is silent, but rather that it does not consist of inane babbling.

https://www.amazon.com/Peace-Let-Pray-Lord-Interpretation/dp/1928653065/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1216476433&sr=1-1
That makes sense.

I would like to talk about the charismatic issue with you on another thread.
I won't be argumentative. Would you be OK with that?

Once upon a time, we were already discussing the issue here, but then the discussion petered out when you declined to answer my direct questions to you in this post:

RE: discussing the essay and reading it.
This is not to be hurried. It is a serious, but very sensitive discussion, critically analysing Christianity, the early Church, Charismaticism, etc. and considering the Orthodox view.

May I ask why this subject is of interest to you?  Do you have loved ones in the Charismatic Movement?  Have you spent time up close and personal with its adherents?  Is this merely an academic issue for you?  Are you interested in developing a comprehensive polemic against Charismatism yourself?  Or an apologia for certain aspects of it?

It's no requirement. I only want a patient talk, not the kind of thing we had on the

Kind of trailed off there, but you may fix that in editing.  I'm guessing your referring to our interaction in the thread about the Ethiopian Church and marijuana?  If that's the case, you needn't worry about our having a similar interaction here, unless you're going to contend that the Oriental Orthodox Church already accepts some form of Charismatism and that is as it should be.  I don't think that will be the case though.  :)

I am happy to resume the discussion there with you answering that question.  In that thread, you also linked to an essay you authored here.  So this is your essay then?  You managed to get it published to AFR?  If that's the case, I would also appreciate answers to my questions above:

I'm curious as to the author's qualifications.  Is he a historian?  An anthropologist?  A theologian?  Just a hobbyist?  What qualifies him to publish an article on this subject?

So again, if you want to answer all of those questions above, I am happy to resume our dialogue here and not in a new thread.  Let me know.  :)
Worship is theology, so a church which brings Evangelical and Charismatic "praise & worship" into its corporate life is no longer Orthodox.  It is, by definition, heterodox.  Those "Orthodox" leaders who make theological arguments for the incorporation of heteropraxis into the life of the Church are heretics.

http://returntoorthodoxy.com/

Offline RaphaCam

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Re: Oriental Orthodox Picture of the Day
« Reply #861 on: April 26, 2017, 01:15:00 PM »
Hey, Antonious, why did you block me?  :'(
"Now therefore, when thou didst pray, and Sara thy daughter in law, I did bring the remembrance of your prayers before the Holy One: and when thou didst bury the dead, I was with thee likewise." (Righteous Tobit 12:12)

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Offline Iconodule

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Re: Oriental Orthodox Picture of the Day
« Reply #862 on: April 26, 2017, 01:50:46 PM »
Wait, his name really is Hal?
Quote
But it had not been in Tess's power - nor is it in anybody's power - to feel the whole truth of golden opinions while it is possible to profit by them. She - and how many more - might have ironically said to God with Saint Augustine, "Thou hast counselled a better course than thou hast permitted."
Thomas Hardy, Tess of the D'Urbervilles

Offline rakovsky

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Re: Oriental Orthodox Picture of the Day
« Reply #863 on: April 26, 2017, 01:57:53 PM »
So again, if you want to answer all of those questions above, I am happy to resume our dialogue here and not in a new thread. 
OK.
The ocean, impassable by men, and the world beyond it are directed by the same ordinances of the Master. ~ I Clement 20

Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Re: Oriental Orthodox Picture of the Day
« Reply #864 on: April 26, 2017, 04:54:03 PM »
Wait, his name really is Hal?

Apparently so!  Hence, my stunned koala meme.  It was all just too much.  ;)
Worship is theology, so a church which brings Evangelical and Charismatic "praise & worship" into its corporate life is no longer Orthodox.  It is, by definition, heterodox.  Those "Orthodox" leaders who make theological arguments for the incorporation of heteropraxis into the life of the Church are heretics.

http://returntoorthodoxy.com/

Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Re: Oriental Orthodox Picture of the Day
« Reply #865 on: April 26, 2017, 04:54:48 PM »
So again, if you want to answer all of those questions above, I am happy to resume our dialogue here and not in a new thread. 
OK.

Great!  See you there.
Worship is theology, so a church which brings Evangelical and Charismatic "praise & worship" into its corporate life is no longer Orthodox.  It is, by definition, heterodox.  Those "Orthodox" leaders who make theological arguments for the incorporation of heteropraxis into the life of the Church are heretics.

http://returntoorthodoxy.com/

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Oriental Orthodox Picture of the Day
« Reply #866 on: Yesterday at 10:12:09 PM »
How can you be so incarnationally constipated?