Author Topic: Re-internment prayers (?)  (Read 3336 times)

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Offline FrChris

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Re-internment prayers (?)
« on: December 01, 2006, 08:01:07 AM »
Does anyone know if there is a special prayer service or whatever for a re-internment?

If this service exists, does it exist in electronic form in either Greek or English?

Thanks!

+Fr. Chris
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Offline ozgeorge

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Re: Re-internment prayers (?)
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2006, 08:27:29 AM »
Remains are re-interred in Greece all the time (burial plots are often "rented" due to lack of space and the remains re-interred by the family into ossuaries after 5-10 years, and a Priest attends this). If you have any contacts in Greece, ask them, otherwise I can contact mine.
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Offline FrChris

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Re: Re-internment prayers (?)
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2006, 10:13:42 AM »
George,

I have no contacts in Greece, but you gave me an idea...I'll check with my Proistamenos (He's been out of town for a while but will be back by Sunday) and ask him about it. Thanks a bunch!

Thanks! Any re-internment prayers from the Slavic side of Orthodoxy?

Do the Orthodox in Japan have a particular re-internment service?
« Last Edit: December 01, 2006, 10:14:07 AM by FrChris »
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Offline Fr. George

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Re: Re-internment prayers (?)
« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2006, 10:15:54 AM »
Fr Chris - I thought you did have contacts in Greece (NY, a suburb of Rochester)....

Either that, or get Fr. Neophytos' email address...
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Offline jmbejdl

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Re: Re-internment prayers (?)
« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2006, 10:27:11 AM »
George,

I have no contacts in Greece, but you gave me an idea...I'll check with my Proistamenos (He's been out of town for a while but will be back by Sunday) and ask him about it. Thanks a bunch!

Thanks! Any re-internment prayers from the Slavic side of Orthodoxy?

Do the Orthodox in Japan have a particular re-internment service?

Why are we always forgotten? I don't know them, but we must have them as it's standard practice in rural Bucovina at least to reinter remains at one side of the family plot. I'm sure I could get hold of them for you if you gave me time - I doubt they'd be in English, though.

James
We owe greater gratitude to those who humble us, wrong us, and douse us with venom, than to those who nurse us with honour and sweet words, or feed us with tasty food and confections, for bile is the best medicine for our soul. - Elder Paisios of Mount Athos

Offline FrChris

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Re: Re-internment prayers (?)
« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2006, 11:34:54 AM »
Why are we always forgotten? I don't know them, but we must have them as it's standard practice in rural Bucovina at least to reinter remains at one side of the family plot. I'm sure I could get hold of them for you if you gave me time - I doubt they'd be in English, though.


James---

I'm still interested--I have enough Romanian friends I could probably get them translated, especially if you can get them to me before Wednesday (At least once a month I serve at a mission parish that has a heavy Romanian presence, and that's the next time I'll be there).

Also, I didn't mean to forget you....it's just that, you know, Romania has so much more room than Greece, I just kinda thought you didn't exhume the reposed. Sorry! Chock it up to my 'relaxed brain'... ;)
"As the sparrow flees from a hawk, so the man seeking humility flees from an argument". St John Climacus

Offline pensateomnia

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Re: Re-internment prayers (?)
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2006, 11:54:02 AM »
Also, I didn't mean to forget you....it's just that, you know, Romania has so much more room than Greece, I just kinda thought you didn't exhume the reposed. Sorry! Chock it up to my 'relaxed brain'... ;)

I imagine James know better than I, but I believe that it is fairly standard practice in most Orthodox countries to exhume the body (after 1 or 3 years, depending on the local practice), not only because space is limited (because in some places, it's not), but also to see if the body is incorrupt and to make a special memorial service.

If the body is incorrupt and myrrh-streaming or fragrant, this is obviously an initial sign of sanctity.

If the body is incorrupt and stinks terribly, this is considered a sign that the person's soul is not at rest (and is cursed in some way). Thus, there are special prayers necessary. I believe this is the origin of the prayers of absolution by the Bishop that one can find in the Slavic Trebnik and in some more recent Euchologia (although they do not exist in the older Mega Euchologion).

Of course, legal realities and societal sensibilities in the U.S. usually prevent this. Who knows how many saints are hidden away in U.S. cemeteries? (Not to mention those in need of prayer.)
But for I am a man not textueel I wol noght telle of textes neuer a deel. (Chaucer, The Manciple's Tale, 1.131)

Offline augustin717

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Re: Re-internment prayers (?)
« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2006, 03:27:30 PM »
I can tell for sure that exhumation isn't a common practice in Romania. In Transylvania it's, in fact, unknown.
In fact our priests, after the coffin was lowered into the grave,  a glass of wine and the ashes of the thurible spred crosswise over the coffin, take the the spade, making the sign of the Cross with it, touching every wall of the grave and saying: "The earth is the Lord's and the fullness thereof; this grave is now closed and sealed in the name of the Father and of the son and of the Holy Ghost, unto the second and glorious coming of our Lord, God and Saviour Jesus Christ. Amen"
If, however, due to some serious reasons, an exhumation has to be done, I assume that a "Panahida" or "Parastas" will be sung.

Offline Starlight

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Re: Re-internment prayers (?)
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2006, 11:04:36 PM »
Do the Orthodox in Japan have a particular re-internment service?
I am not sure about re-internment service and pracitces in Japan, but I have been told that the Orthodox Chruch of Japan allows, but does not promote cremation, exclusively due to the necessity to oblidge the legal requirements. As I infered, the regualr burial can transpire in Japan, but it seems more then extremely expensive, and therefore usually not affordable.

Offline augustin717

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Re: Re-internment prayers (?)
« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2006, 07:15:41 PM »
In the "Molitvenic" or "Evhologhion" I have-which is Greek-Catholic, printed in 1940 at Blaj, and which reflects the Transylvanian use, common to both Greek-Catholics and Orthodox- no mention is made of and so no special prayer is provided for re-interrement.

Offline jmbejdl

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Re: Re-internment prayers (?)
« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2006, 03:39:18 AM »
I can tell for sure that exhumation isn't a common practice in Romania. In Transylvania it's, in fact, unknown.
In fact our priests, after the coffin was lowered into the grave,  a glass of wine and the ashes of the thurible spred crosswise over the coffin, take the the spade, making the sign of the Cross with it, touching every wall of the grave and saying: "The earth is the Lord's and the fullness thereof; this grave is now closed and sealed in the name of the Father and of the son and of the Holy Ghost, unto the second and glorious coming of our Lord, God and Saviour Jesus Christ. Amen"
If, however, due to some serious reasons, an exhumation has to be done, I assume that a "Panahida" or "Parastas" will be sung.

I know. We discussed this before, remember? That's why I put in that it was common practice in rural Bucovina. Many Romanian traditions seem to be very dependant upon region, as I've noted many times. However, if you go up to the north east and visit any graveyard, it will be immediately obvious that every so often there are small forests of crosses all together. This will be to one side of the plot, where the remains have been reinterred. It really is normal and I think is at least in part down to what pensateomnia suggested (there clearly isn't a land shortage in small rural villages). Certainly, I know of at least one priest's tomb which is due to be opened where the locals publicly said that they were hoping for such a miracle - they believe that the deceased priest was a saint. Unfortunately I never knew him myself.

Dear Fr. Chris, bless,

I doubt that I'd be able to get you the prayers quickly (and certainly not by Wednesday). In order to get them at all I'd probably have to write to the priest in my wife's village and that would certainly take time (no computer, I'm afraid - I don't even think he has a land line from what I recall). If you are still interested though, I'll see what I can do. I could save you the bother of getting them translated, too. Between us, my wife and I do the translations for our parish, so I'm quite familiar with turning Liturgical Romanian into English, now.

James
We owe greater gratitude to those who humble us, wrong us, and douse us with venom, than to those who nurse us with honour and sweet words, or feed us with tasty food and confections, for bile is the best medicine for our soul. - Elder Paisios of Mount Athos