OrthodoxChristianity.net
October 02, 2014, 03:02:23 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: 1 2 3 »  All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: The Pope's Visit to Constantinople and Turkey  (Read 13873 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Fr. George
formerly "Cleveland"
Administrator
Stratopedarches
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox (Catholic) Christian
Jurisdiction: GOA - Metropolis of Pittsburgh
Posts: 20,077


May the Lord bless you and keep you always!


« on: November 29, 2006, 09:03:55 AM »

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6194224.stm

Pope holds Mass at Turkish shrine

The Pope has been celebrating Mass in the ancient city of Ephesus in western Turkey, on the second day of his landmark visit to the country.

A shrine marks what is said to be the final resting place of the Virgin Mary.

Pope Benedict XVI is then due to meet the Greek Orthodox Patriarch in Istanbul, aiming to heal an old rift between Churches.

The Pope's four-day visit to Turkey has been overshadowed by comments made in September about Islam.

Wednesday's agenda will centre on the meeting with Patriarch Bartholomew I, which was the original reason for Benedict's decision to travel to the country.

Pilgrimage

The Ephesus service was the only open-air Mass Pope Benedict will say in Turkey, for a congregation of some 500 Catholics brought to the shrine by special invitation.

The Pope has visited the small stone house set in the lush green hillside where the Virgin Mary is thought to have spent her last days.

It is visited every year by tens of thousands of pilgrims.

He also honoured the memory of a Roman Catholic priest who was killed amid Muslim anger over the publication of caricatures of the Prophet Muhammad.

"Let us sing joyfully, even when we're tested by difficulties and dangers, as we have learned from the fine witness given by the Roman priest John Andrea Santoro, whom I am pleased to recall in this celebration," he is quoted as saying by the Associated Press news agency.

There is only a tiny Catholic community left in Turkey and many in the congregation were foreigners who live in the country and some had travelled from the Mediterranean coast for the occasion, says the BBC's Sarah Rainsford in Ephesus.

From there, the Pope will travel to Istanbul, once - as Constantinople - the centre of the Byzantine empire, but now the largest city in a secular but largely Muslim Turkish republic.

In Istanbul he will be the guest of the Orthodox Patriarch, who heads a community of 250 million Christians around the world.

While in Istanbul the Pope will meet faith leaders and visit the city's famous Blue Mosque.

Benedict is scheduled to lead Mass in an Istanbul cathedral before he departs.

Call for dialogue

On his first day in Turkey - and his first in a mainly Muslim country as Pope - Benedict called for an "authentic dialogue" between Christians and Muslims in a speech at Turkey's directorate of religious affairs.

He said the exchange must be "based on truth and inspired by a sincere wish to know one another better".

The visit has been overshadowed by angry protests by Turkish Muslims.

Tens of thousands of people protested on the streets of Istanbul at the weekend, calling on the Pope to stay away or apologise for comments he made about Islam in a speech in September.

Speaking to an academic audience in Germany, the Pope quoted a Byzantine emperor who characterised Islam as a violent religion.

While the Pope insisted the remarks did not reflect his own views, the speech was widely reported and caused anger across the Islamic world.

In Ankara, the Pope began his trip with a visit to the hilltop mausoleum of modern Turkey's founder Mustafa Kemal Ataturk.
Logged

"The man who doesn't read good books has no advantage over the one who can't read them." Mark Twain
---------------------
Ordained on 17 & 18-Oct 2009. Please forgive me if earlier posts are poorly worded or incorrect in any way.
Fr. George
formerly "Cleveland"
Administrator
Stratopedarches
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox (Catholic) Christian
Jurisdiction: GOA - Metropolis of Pittsburgh
Posts: 20,077


May the Lord bless you and keep you always!


« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2006, 09:06:04 AM »

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6192814.stm

Christian divisions cloud Pope's talks
By Jan Repa
BBC Europe analyst

Pope Benedict XVI, spiritual leader of the world's Catholics, is to meet Patriarch Bartholomew - "first among equals" of the leaders of the Orthodox Christian churches - in the Turkish city of Istanbul.

The Pope's visit to overwhelmingly Muslim Turkey has already provoked controversy - with some nationalist and Islamist groups insisting he is not welcome.

However, the Catholic-Orthodox relationship has also been fraught with difficulty, even before the two churches split nearly 1,000 years ago.

On the same day as he meets Patriarch Bartholomew, Benedict XVI will also visit one of the world's architectural marvels.

Built nearly 1,500 years ago by the East Roman (Byzantine) Emperor Justinian, it was known as the Haghia Sofia - or Church of Holy Wisdom.

A lost symbol

Converted into a mosque by the conquering Turks in 1453, it became a museum in the 1920s.

For many Orthodox Christians, it remains the lost symbol of their faith.

Some Muslim groups would like it to be a mosque once more.

If Benedict XVI offers a prayer here, the result could be religious dynamite.

The history of Istanbul - once known as Constantinople - exemplifies the clash of religions, politics and brute power.

Catholicism and Orthodoxy were once twin aspects of the same officially approved version of Christianity, established under the Roman Empire after its conversion in the 4th Century.

Catholicism was dominant in the "Latin" West; Orthodoxy in the Greek-speaking East.

Over the centuries, political, cultural and theological differences widened to the point where the two Churches formally split in 1054.

In 1204, Catholic Crusaders sacked Constantinople.

Reconciliation

Though roundly condemned by the Pope of the day, the sack is still seen by many Orthodox as an act of "Latin treachery" - and continues to mobilise anti-Catholic sentiment in traditionally Orthodox countries like Greece and Russia.

It took until 1964 for a Pope, Paul VI, to meet an Orthodox Patriarch of Constantinople, Athenagoras, on neutral ground, in Jerusalem.

Recent Popes and Patriarchs have pledged to work for reconciliation and greater unity.

But significant obstacles remain.

One is the status of the Pope - seen by Catholics as the final arbiter of theological and moral truth.

For the Orthodox churches, such authority derives from the first Seven Councils of the Church - the last of which occurred in 787 AD - whose rulings cannot be altered or added to.

Unfair treatment

Other differences concern issues like the nature of Holy Trinity; the relationship between science and Faith; whether God can ever be fully understood; or the existence - or otherwise - of Purgatory.

There are also tensions between the various Orthodox churches - with some, like the Russian Orthodox Church, traditionally vying for the "number one" position; and some suggesting that the Patriarch of Constantinople may be too keen on his links with Rome.

One subject which may well come up during Benedict XVI's trip to Turkey is the allegation that Christians are not treated fairly.

In the 1920s, when the Turkish Republic was established on the ruins of the Ottoman Empire, there were 200,000 Orthodox ethnic Greeks in Istanbul.

Today there are 5000.

Istanbul's Orthodox Christian school of theology was closed by the authorities in 1971 - and remains so, despite appeals from the European Union.
Logged

"The man who doesn't read good books has no advantage over the one who can't read them." Mark Twain
---------------------
Ordained on 17 & 18-Oct 2009. Please forgive me if earlier posts are poorly worded or incorrect in any way.
Fr. George
formerly "Cleveland"
Administrator
Stratopedarches
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox (Catholic) Christian
Jurisdiction: GOA - Metropolis of Pittsburgh
Posts: 20,077


May the Lord bless you and keep you always!


« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2006, 09:06:57 AM »

The following image accompanied both articles:

WHERE EAST MEETS WEST



- Kosovo is an overwhelmingly Muslim province of Serbia, pushing for independence
- In Lviv and other western parts of Ukraine, the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church predominates - a church that follows Eastern rites but vows allegiance to Rome
- Republika Srpska is the Serb part of Bosnia
- Cyprus is divided between the Greek, Orthodox south and the breakaway Turkish, Muslim north
« Last Edit: November 29, 2006, 09:08:20 AM by cleveland » Logged

"The man who doesn't read good books has no advantage over the one who can't read them." Mark Twain
---------------------
Ordained on 17 & 18-Oct 2009. Please forgive me if earlier posts are poorly worded or incorrect in any way.
pensateomnia
Bibliophylax
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Greek Orthodox Christian
Posts: 2,349


metron ariston


« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2006, 09:59:46 AM »

For the Orthodox churches, such authority derives from the first Seven Councils of the Church - the last of which occurred in 787 AD - whose rulings cannot be altered or added to.

I see at least three major errors in this sentence. Perhaps someone should e-mail this reporter with a brief enough explanation of the actual nature of authority, dogma, Ecumenical Councils and canon law in the Orthodox tradition that she can use it in a graph or two in future articles. Any takers? (Cough...ozgeorge?)
Logged

But for I am a man not textueel I wol noght telle of textes neuer a deel. (Chaucer, The Manciple's Tale, 1.131)
jmbejdl
Count-Palatine James the Spurious of Giggleswick on the Naze
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Church of Romania
Posts: 1,480


Great Martyr St. John the New of Suceava


« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2006, 10:13:31 AM »

I see at least three major errors in this sentence. Perhaps someone should e-mail this reporter with a brief enough explanation of the actual nature of authority, dogma, Ecumenical Councils and canon law in the Orthodox tradition that she can use it in a graph or two in future articles. Any takers? (Cough...ozgeorge?)

You'd be wasting your breath. The article's from the BBC and after somewhere in the region of 20 complaints to them that they had errors in previous articles about Orthodoxy, I've given up trying. By all means have a go, though, just don't be surprised when they ignore you, fail to correct the errors and don't even acknowledge receipt of your comment.

James
Logged

We owe greater gratitude to those who humble us, wrong us, and douse us with venom, than to those who nurse us with honour and sweet words, or feed us with tasty food and confections, for bile is the best medicine for our soul. - Elder Paisios of Mount Athos
Fr. George
formerly "Cleveland"
Administrator
Stratopedarches
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox (Catholic) Christian
Jurisdiction: GOA - Metropolis of Pittsburgh
Posts: 20,077


May the Lord bless you and keep you always!


« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2006, 12:18:19 PM »

Sad, really, when journalism falls to the level of wanton disregard for the truth.... Oh, wait - that's always been there in the mass media!

Logged

"The man who doesn't read good books has no advantage over the one who can't read them." Mark Twain
---------------------
Ordained on 17 & 18-Oct 2009. Please forgive me if earlier posts are poorly worded or incorrect in any way.
BoredMeeting
Loving the Life of a Council Member
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic Christian
Jurisdiction: Serbian Orthodox/OCA
Posts: 721



« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2006, 12:42:40 PM »

Another article mentioned that Turks had threateded to attack the Pope if he made the sign of the cross while inside Hagia Sophia.

Just another happy day living alongside the Religion of Peace.
Logged
Fr. George
formerly "Cleveland"
Administrator
Stratopedarches
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox (Catholic) Christian
Jurisdiction: GOA - Metropolis of Pittsburgh
Posts: 20,077


May the Lord bless you and keep you always!


« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2006, 12:51:32 PM »

With a few hundred elementary school students distracting the personnel, we were able to chant "Save O Lord" in Greek in the Great Church... a completely moving experience.  Of course, if we were heard we would have been kicked out and maybe even arrested, not to mention becoming the target of wrath from the same Turks who seem to love Il Papa so much.
Logged

"The man who doesn't read good books has no advantage over the one who can't read them." Mark Twain
---------------------
Ordained on 17 & 18-Oct 2009. Please forgive me if earlier posts are poorly worded or incorrect in any way.
Zoe
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: GOA
Posts: 450



« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2006, 12:55:06 PM »

Secretly chanting?  That's straight out of some Russian-style underground worship services.  Incredible that such things still go on today.  Religion of peace really living up to their self-proclaimed title!  Roll Eyes
Logged

NI!!!!!!
lubeltri
Latin Catholic layman
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Archdiocese of Boston
Posts: 3,795



« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2006, 01:18:09 PM »

I'm watching the meeting between Benedict and Bartholomew now live on EWTN. Quite a beautiful scene---Pope and Patriarch at the head of two columns of Orthodox and Catholic prelates lined up down the nave, a chorus chanting beautifully nearby.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2006, 01:19:40 PM by lubeltri » Logged
lubeltri
Latin Catholic layman
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Archdiocese of Boston
Posts: 3,795



« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2006, 01:27:51 PM »

After prayers interspersed with chants of Kyrie Eleison and a scripture reading, Benedict and Bartholomew mutually recited the Our Father out loud (in Greek, of course).

Now Bartholomew has turned to Benedict and is reading his formal greeting of welcome to Benedict: "Beloved brother, welcome."
« Last Edit: November 29, 2006, 01:32:10 PM by lubeltri » Logged
SouthSerb99
Archbishop of Shlivo, Patriarch of All Vodkas & Defender Against All Overstepping!
Site Supporter
Archon
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Serbian Orthodox Church
Posts: 2,800


Now Internet Forum Friendly


WWW
« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2006, 01:40:02 PM »

I'm sensing more footage for a new video against Ecumenism.

BTW, I'm watching it as well, thanks for the info.
Logged

"Wherever you go, there you are."
 Guy from my office

Orthodox Archbishopric of Ohrid
Hungry? Click Here
lubeltri
Latin Catholic layman
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Archdiocese of Boston
Posts: 3,795



« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2006, 01:41:43 PM »

Now Benedict has responded with his own greeting.

And now first Benedict, and then Bartholomew, have given blessings to all those in attendance.

And now a closing prayer chanted by the chorus, as the two walk side by side to venerate the relics so recently returned to Constantinople by John Paul II.
Logged
lubeltri
Latin Catholic layman
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Archdiocese of Boston
Posts: 3,795



« Reply #13 on: November 29, 2006, 01:46:31 PM »

Now they've exited the church side by side as the chorus continues to chant, and in procession both have ventured to the Patriarch's residence for a private meeting.
Logged
francis-christopher
Banned
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Roman Catholic
Jurisdiction: Diocese of Richmond
Posts: 366


St. Francis pray for us!


« Reply #14 on: November 29, 2006, 01:48:31 PM »

In nomine Iesu I offer you all peace,

Please keep up the commentary and comments, I'm at work and unable to watch it myself.

Pax
Logged

Francisce-Christophorus

Sancte Francisce, athleta Christi, ora pro nobis. Amen.
lubeltri
Latin Catholic layman
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Archdiocese of Boston
Posts: 3,795



« Reply #15 on: November 29, 2006, 01:49:26 PM »

Now Benedict is warmly greeting a group of broadly smiling Orthodox prelates at the residence. Don't worry boys, they're clasping Benedict's hands and bowing---no ring-kissing as far as I could see!  Cheesy
Logged
lubeltri
Latin Catholic layman
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Archdiocese of Boston
Posts: 3,795



« Reply #16 on: November 29, 2006, 01:52:10 PM »

Francis Christopher,

I'm glad to be of service. EWTN will inevitably broadcast an encore later this evening, if you've got cable.

-------------

Now Bartholomew is now milling about the room, warmly greeting Catholic prelates.
Logged
lubeltri
Latin Catholic layman
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Archdiocese of Boston
Posts: 3,795



« Reply #17 on: November 29, 2006, 01:57:26 PM »

The big group of Catholic and Orthodox prelates, along with Benedict and Bartholomew, have all now entered a new room, all but arm-in-arm. The mutual affection is palpable.

Now the video feed is only showing the exterior of the residence, so it looks like the private meeting has begun. Raymond Arroyo and a Catholic monsignor are discussing the prospects and challenges of reunion.

-

Well, now the live coverage is concluded. They say tomorrow Benedict is to attend a Divine Liturgy at the Church of St. George, and afterwards Benedict and Bartholomew will sign a joint declaration. It will be interesting to find out what that declaration will say.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2006, 02:04:53 PM by lubeltri » Logged
alexp4uni
Site Supporter
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: kinda practicing theist
Jurisdiction: ecumenical kind
Posts: 329


« Reply #18 on: November 29, 2006, 02:36:18 PM »

Right now I'm at work as well sneaking a peak at Video Broadcast of EWTN. I'm Glad to see no one here is enthusiastic about the Dialogue and the Prayer Services. No one here is who is Orthodox on this board is really jumping with Glee about it. I had my reservations as well but the when the chips fall on the floor, the press will not recoginize the Patriarchs of The Eastern Churches and the political status's they have know. Which is fine because Schisms takes 500-700 years to heal and thats when Iran becomes a superpower is supported by Turkey to reestablish an Islamic Republic. Wink
Logged
arimethea
Getting too old for this
Section Moderator
Archon
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Holy Catholic and Apostolic Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Patriarchate of Antioch
Posts: 2,968


Does anyone really care what you think?


« Reply #19 on: November 29, 2006, 02:49:30 PM »

Here is the press conference held on Monday http://www.patriarchate.org/media/pressconference.php

Archbishop Demitrios speaks for the Orthodox and his opening comments are fantastic. One thing I find ironic is that the intro start off saying who is at the press conference and telling everyone the official language for the press conference is English in a multitude of languages and then Archbishop Demitrios speaking on the power of language without talking about the power of the English language even though that is the choice of the press conference.

Another interesting thing, Orthodox Archbishop Demitrios calls it Istanbul and the Catholic Bishop Brian Farrell calls it Constantinople.
Logged

Joseph
lubeltri
Latin Catholic layman
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Archdiocese of Boston
Posts: 3,795



« Reply #20 on: November 29, 2006, 02:54:43 PM »

Another interesting thing, Orthodox Archbishop Demitrios calls it Istanbul and the Catholic Bishop Brian Farrell calls it Constantinople.

That is quite odd.
Logged
lubeltri
Latin Catholic layman
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Archdiocese of Boston
Posts: 3,795



« Reply #21 on: November 29, 2006, 02:59:13 PM »

Francis Christopher,

EWTN is replaying it tonight at 11pm. You can see it on TV if you have EWTN on your cable system. If not, you can watch EWTN through their website if you have a high-speed connection.
Logged
icxn
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 251


« Reply #22 on: November 29, 2006, 04:19:23 PM »

...Another interesting thing, Orthodox Archbishop Demitrios calls it Istanbul and the Catholic Bishop Brian Farrell calls it Constantinople.
Istanbul is also Greek. It means "in the city." When the Turks invated the City the Greeks were shouting "The Turks are in the City, the Turks are in the City..." (οι Τουρκοι 'ναι στην Πόλη) and the Turks picked it up and called the city Instabul.

Logged
CRCulver
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Church of Finland and Romanian Orthodox Church
Posts: 1,159


St Stephen of Perm, missionary to speakers of Komi


WWW
« Reply #23 on: November 29, 2006, 04:39:41 PM »

Istanbul is also Greek. It means "in the city." When the Turks invated the City the Greeks were shouting "The Turks are in the City, the Turks are in the City..." (οι Τουρκοι 'ναι στην Πόλη) and the Turks picked it up and called the city Instabul.

While this story has been going around for a while, many consider it folk etymology. For what it's worth, as the Turks had already held already the land surrounding Constantinople for quite some time, they would have had contact with its citizens and already had a name for it in Turkish. The day of invasion was not the first time they ever heard of the place.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2006, 04:41:08 PM by CRCulver » Logged
ozgeorge
I'll take you for who you are if you take me for everything.
Hoplitarches
*************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Oecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople, the New Rome, the Great Church of Christ.
Posts: 16,382


My plans for retirement.


WWW
« Reply #24 on: November 29, 2006, 07:18:20 PM »

I see at least three major errors in this sentence. Perhaps someone should e-mail this reporter with a brief enough explanation of the actual nature of authority, dogma, Ecumenical Councils and canon law in the Orthodox tradition that she can use it in a graph or two in future articles. Any takers? (Cough...ozgeorge?)
I suppose we should be grateful that we are even getting a mention in the BBC! Cheesy
Logged

If you're living a happy life as a Christian, you're doing something wrong.
Fr. George
formerly "Cleveland"
Administrator
Stratopedarches
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox (Catholic) Christian
Jurisdiction: GOA - Metropolis of Pittsburgh
Posts: 20,077


May the Lord bless you and keep you always!


« Reply #25 on: November 29, 2006, 07:32:05 PM »

While this story has been going around for a while, many consider it folk etymology. For what it's worth, as the Turks had already held already the land surrounding Constantinople for quite some time, they would have had contact with its citizens and already had a name for it in Turkish. The day of invasion was not the first time they ever heard of the place.

While all this may be true, the offical name of the city was the Greek "Constantinople" until the 18th century (or 19th, I don't recall), when it was changed to Constantin**** (whatever the Turkish equivelant of "Ople" is), and it was only changed to "Istambul" when Ataturk finished his atrocities, er, reforms.
Logged

"The man who doesn't read good books has no advantage over the one who can't read them." Mark Twain
---------------------
Ordained on 17 & 18-Oct 2009. Please forgive me if earlier posts are poorly worded or incorrect in any way.
Ebor
Vanyar
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 6,421



« Reply #26 on: November 29, 2006, 07:41:14 PM »

Another interesting thing, Orthodox Archbishop Demitrios calls it Istanbul and the Catholic Bishop Brian Farrell calls it Constantinople.

Cue They Might Be Giants...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsQrKZcYtqg

 Cheesy

Ebor
Logged

"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis

The Katana of Reasoned Discussion

For some a world view is more like a neighborhood watch.
Veniamin
Fire for Effect!
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA Diocese of the South
Posts: 3,372


St. Barbara, patroness of the Field Artillery


« Reply #27 on: November 29, 2006, 08:01:13 PM »

Cue They Might Be Giants...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsQrKZcYtqg

That's just begging for someone to parody that.  Maybe we could get a bunch of monks and have 'em sing "Not Istanbul, it's Constantinople..."
Logged

Artillery adds dignity to what would otherwise be a vulgar brawl. ~Frederick the Great
icxn
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 251


« Reply #28 on: November 29, 2006, 08:18:22 PM »

While this story has been going around for a while, many consider it folk etymology. For what it's worth, as the Turks had already held already the land surrounding Constantinople for quite some time, they would have had contact with its citizens and already had a name for it in Turkish. The day of invasion was not the first time they ever heard of the place.
My intend was to justify the Archbishop by providing a positive lens by which to view his statement and avoid the spirit of criticism.  Lips Sealed
Logged
Fr. George
formerly "Cleveland"
Administrator
Stratopedarches
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox (Catholic) Christian
Jurisdiction: GOA - Metropolis of Pittsburgh
Posts: 20,077


May the Lord bless you and keep you always!


« Reply #29 on: November 29, 2006, 08:20:49 PM »

Cue They Might Be Giants...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsQrKZcYtqg

 Cheesy

Ebor

The original video is hilarious, too.  I think it's on youtube (I haven't seen it in years....).  I've also heard a recording of TMBG singing in Greek.
Logged

"The man who doesn't read good books has no advantage over the one who can't read them." Mark Twain
---------------------
Ordained on 17 & 18-Oct 2009. Please forgive me if earlier posts are poorly worded or incorrect in any way.
ozgeorge
I'll take you for who you are if you take me for everything.
Hoplitarches
*************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Oecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople, the New Rome, the Great Church of Christ.
Posts: 16,382


My plans for retirement.


WWW
« Reply #30 on: November 29, 2006, 08:27:24 PM »

While all this may be true, the offical name of the city was the Greek "Constantinople" until the 18th century (or 19th, I don't recall), when it was changed to Constantin**** (whatever the Turkish equivelant of "Ople" is), and it was only changed to "Istambul" when Ataturk finished his atrocities, er, reforms.
Actually, "Istanbul" dates back to the Ottoman conquest of the City. And in the 19th century, the highest civil magistrate in Constantinople was called the "Istanbul Effendisi". And there is evidence that other Turkish place names have a phonetic origin similar to that claimed for Istanbul, such as the Turkish name "İstanköy" for the Island of Kos ("εἰς τὴν Κό"), and "Izmit" was originally "İznikmit" ("εἰς Νικομήδεια").
Logged

If you're living a happy life as a Christian, you're doing something wrong.
Fr. George
formerly "Cleveland"
Administrator
Stratopedarches
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox (Catholic) Christian
Jurisdiction: GOA - Metropolis of Pittsburgh
Posts: 20,077


May the Lord bless you and keep you always!


« Reply #31 on: November 29, 2006, 10:32:57 PM »

I'm not doubting that the origin of the word was from the conquest...

"While all this may be true,"

What I said was that

"the official name of the city"

used in legal documents and such was still Constantinople.
Logged

"The man who doesn't read good books has no advantage over the one who can't read them." Mark Twain
---------------------
Ordained on 17 & 18-Oct 2009. Please forgive me if earlier posts are poorly worded or incorrect in any way.
ozgeorge
I'll take you for who you are if you take me for everything.
Hoplitarches
*************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Oecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople, the New Rome, the Great Church of Christ.
Posts: 16,382


My plans for retirement.


WWW
« Reply #32 on: November 29, 2006, 10:43:04 PM »

Oh, sorry! I thought you were agreeing with CRCuliver that the phonetic origin of "Istanbul" is "probably folk etymology".
Afentersin efentiler! (Turkish for "I beg your pardon gentlemen!")
« Last Edit: November 29, 2006, 10:45:06 PM by ozgeorge » Logged

If you're living a happy life as a Christian, you're doing something wrong.
lubeltri
Latin Catholic layman
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Archdiocese of Boston
Posts: 3,795



« Reply #33 on: November 30, 2006, 04:07:39 AM »

I decided to stay up to watch the Divine Liturgy live.

It's beginning now. It brings back such good memories of attending Divine Liturgy at St. Elizabeth the Wonderworker Greek Orthodox Church in Gainesville, Florida, when I was in college.

Pope Benedict looks a lot like I always did, his eyes intermittently peering down at the guide booklet! Though he can read Ancient Greek, unlike me.

Incidentally, at least one Orthodox prelate kissed the ring (or hand) of Benedict on the steps of the church.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2006, 04:14:41 AM by lubeltri » Logged
authio
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 369



« Reply #34 on: November 30, 2006, 04:26:54 AM »

The kissing of the Pope's ring was not the wisest of moves by the Orthodox hierarch.  Perhaps he is a uniate?

Luberltri, are you Orthodox?
Logged

Christ is risen!
Cristo ha resucitado!
Христос Воскресе!
Χριστός Ανέστη!
 المسيح قام
lubeltri
Latin Catholic layman
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Archdiocese of Boston
Posts: 3,795



« Reply #35 on: November 30, 2006, 04:45:13 AM »

That is a possibility. Hard to say, because all those who greeted him were dressed in black, without any distinguishing marks.
Logged
lubeltri
Latin Catholic layman
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Archdiocese of Boston
Posts: 3,795



« Reply #36 on: November 30, 2006, 04:49:12 AM »

Luberltri, are you Orthodox?

No, Catholic. But in college I was a member of the Orthodox Christian Fellowship, and my mentor in the history department was Prof. Florin Curta, who is Romanian Orthodox. I often went to Divine Liturgy and Bible study at St. Elizabeth's (the only Orthodox church in the area) on Sundays. I also attended mass at St. Augustine's on Sunday evenings.
Logged
authio
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 369



« Reply #37 on: November 30, 2006, 05:03:03 AM »

Well, good to have ya on OC.net.

I have a question for the canon lawyers and Greek theologians among us...
Why wasn't the OCA mentioned in the remembrances for the autocephalous jurisdictions in the translation offered by Fr. Dr. Chryssavagis (sp?) on EWTN or on the http://www.patriarchate.org/ website?  Does the EP not recognize our autocepahly or are we considered under the MP?

Ugh, please don't make this a complicated affair - I'd like it to be a clean and simple response.  But knowing OC.net, that's probably not going to happen...
Logged

Christ is risen!
Cristo ha resucitado!
Христос Воскресе!
Χριστός Ανέστη!
 المسيح قام
lubeltri
Latin Catholic layman
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Archdiocese of Boston
Posts: 3,795



« Reply #38 on: November 30, 2006, 05:05:50 AM »

The Kiss of Peace has just been exchanged. Benedict climbed down from the great chair he was sitting in and met Bartholomew in embrace. We've still got a long way to go!
Logged
lubeltri
Latin Catholic layman
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Archdiocese of Boston
Posts: 3,795



« Reply #39 on: November 30, 2006, 05:08:17 AM »

Well, good to have ya on OC.net.

I have a question for the canon lawyers and Greek theologians among us...
Why wasn't the OCA mentioned in the remembrances for the autocephalous jurisdictions in the translation offered by Fr. Dr. Chryssavagis (sp?) on EWTN or on the http://www.patriarchate.org/ website?  Does the EP not recognize our autocepahly or are we considered under the MP?

Ugh, please don't make this a complicated affair - I'd like it to be a clean and simple response.  But knowing OC.net, that's probably not going to happen...

Thanks.

From what I understand (someone else correct me if I'm wrong), Constantinople does not recognize the autocephaly of the OCA, though Moscow does.
Logged
jmbejdl
Count-Palatine James the Spurious of Giggleswick on the Naze
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Church of Romania
Posts: 1,480


Great Martyr St. John the New of Suceava


« Reply #40 on: November 30, 2006, 05:13:55 AM »

Thanks.

From what I understand (someone else correct me if I'm wrong), Constantinople does not recognize the autocephaly of the OCA, though Moscow does.

You are correct to the best of my knowledge.

James
Logged

We owe greater gratitude to those who humble us, wrong us, and douse us with venom, than to those who nurse us with honour and sweet words, or feed us with tasty food and confections, for bile is the best medicine for our soul. - Elder Paisios of Mount Athos
lubeltri
Latin Catholic layman
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Archdiocese of Boston
Posts: 3,795



« Reply #41 on: November 30, 2006, 05:27:31 AM »

Benedict just said the Our Father in Greek! I didn't know he would be participating in the Divine Liturgy.
Logged
lubeltri
Latin Catholic layman
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Archdiocese of Boston
Posts: 3,795



« Reply #42 on: November 30, 2006, 05:58:44 AM »

At last, Communion. I've always been fascinated by the Orthodox way of distributing the Eucharist, passing the spoon holding both species into the mouth of the communicant.

The pope is standing as the Communion line passes by him. As they pass, many people are bowing to Benedict. I saw one woman make the Sign of the Cross to him. One adorable little boy left the Communion line and went up to Benedict to bow and shake his hand! You should have seen the look on Benedict's face.

I love the reverence of the communicants as they put their chins on the cloth and open their mouths like babes to receive their medicine on the spoon.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2006, 05:59:20 AM by lubeltri » Logged
nikolaos
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 56

Macedonia birthplace of Greek civilization


« Reply #43 on: November 30, 2006, 06:50:05 AM »

At last, Communion. I've always been fascinated by the Orthodox way of distributing the Eucharist, passing the spoon holding both species into the mouth of the communicant.

The visit is a nice move in the course of dialogue between the two churches but i will disagree with you that there is communion between the two churches.There is no such thing
« Last Edit: November 30, 2006, 06:50:33 AM by nikolaos » Logged
lubeltri
Latin Catholic layman
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Archdiocese of Boston
Posts: 3,795



« Reply #44 on: November 30, 2006, 06:50:52 AM »

The liturgy was concluded with messages by Bartholomew and then Benedict, both eloquent, learned, and gracious (Benedict, by the way, personally extended the previously offered invitation to discuss with the East a re-envisioning of the Petrine office to reflect the reality of the first millennium). Following that was the exchanging of gifts (Benedict received the Gospels, Bartholomew a chalice).

Then both offered the Sign of the Cross to all around before leaving in procession.

They proceeded up to a balcony, where Benedict blessed the crowd in Latin and Bartholomew in Greek, upon which the crowd erupted into applause. Then there were cheers as Bartholomew and Benedict clasped hands and shook them above their heads before heading inside.

-

I thought it was touching at the times during the Divine Liturgy when Bartholomew gestured or whispered to Benedict to guide him along.

-

I'm sure Turkey is none too happy with this. The government received the Pope with the highest dignity and honor, yet they treat Bartholomew like a petty, pesky local bishop or worse. The Pope, in turn, is publicly treating Bartholomew as the ancient and venerable Patriarch of New Rome.

-

It was a beautiful Divine Liturgy. Yes, we remain separated, but it is a wonderful thing to see the warmth, charity, mutual recognition of good faith, and brotherly affection shared by the leaders of our two Churches. It gives one hope and spurs one to pray ever fervently that God will bring us together in full Communion someday. It will take the grace and mercy of our Lord to do it, but with God all is possible.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2006, 07:00:17 AM by lubeltri » Logged
Tags:
Pages: 1 2 3 »  All   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.129 seconds with 72 queries.