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Papist
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Bye
« on: November 19, 2006, 10:33:09 PM »

I enjoyed to the discussion and debate on this forum at first. But I quickly found that this is not a place of Charity. The Eastern Orthodox are allowed to say what ever vile thing they feel about the Catholic Church here and then are surprised when some one challenges them on what they believe. I am sorry that there is so little Charity here and I am sorry that an unfair rule is applied to Catholics who post here. Perhaps it is a reflection of the how the Eastern Orthodox Chruch continues to decay as it stays outside of the Confines of mother Church. I do not know. But thank you all for confirming my suspicions about the Eastern Orthodox and confirming for me the fact that the Catholic Church is the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church and the Eastern Orthodox are just another schismatic and heretical group. I will not be posting anymore, if anyone has anything to say to me, my e-mail is apodaca_christopher@hotmail.com
Many Blessings to you all in our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, and I will pray for all of your conversions.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2006, 10:34:31 PM by Papist » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2006, 10:37:57 PM »

You accuse US of a lack of charity? Sheesh. And yes, it is unbalanced towards Orthodox-this is an ORTHODOX forum created by people tired of Catholics being unfair to Orthodox on various sites.  A place where Orthodox can be themselves. You never listened and simply attacked us and as a result you had nasty responses to you. Sometimes they were uncharitable and people will each have to answer for their sins.  but you had your fair share of uncharitable and judgmental comments my friend.  To me, you are not a very good ambassador of Catholicism (Deacon Lance and others are much better examples of Catholics).

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« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2006, 11:51:42 PM »

Well, it would be a shame if you left. I've always viewed you as an ally...well, kinda, in the same way that the Green Party is an ally to the Republican Party. We may not agree on anything, but it always helped my posistion when you took the same posistion as the reactionary orthodox members of this form Wink

In all honesty, this form needs more diversity of opinion, so anyone who doesn't fit the description of 'internet orthodox' is sorely needed.
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« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2006, 11:58:05 PM »

I enjoyed to the discussion and debate on this forum at first. But I quickly found that this is not a place of Charity. The Eastern Orthodox are allowed to say what ever vile thing they feel about the Catholic Church here and then are surprised when some one challenges them on what they believe. I am sorry that there is so little Charity here and I am sorry that an unfair rule is applied to Catholics who post here. Perhaps it is a reflection of the how the Eastern Orthodox Chruch continues to decay as it stays outside of the Confines of mother Church. I do not know. But thank you all for confirming my suspicions about the Eastern Orthodox and confirming for me the fact that the Catholic Church is the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church and the Eastern Orthodox are just another schismatic and heretical group. I will not be posting anymore, if anyone has anything to say to me, my e-mail is apodaca_christopher@hotmail.com
Many Blessings to you all in our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, and I will pray for all of your conversions.

In nomine Iesu I offer you continued peace my dear Brother-in-Christ,

As much as we might 'strive' to present our tradition in the same light in which it is seen by us, we must never forget what is of most importance:

Owe no man any thing, but to love one another. For he that loveth his neighbour hath fulfilled the law. - Romans 13:8 DRB

If we cannot present our faith 'in love' we have nothing to show anyone. Be a servant that you might teach. The longer we grasp and cling to our faith, as a drunk man to a light post, the longer we will fail to use it's illumination to 'see'. Nurture the Christian virtues and the light of our faith will shine for others to see. As St. Francis once said: Preach the Gospel everywhere and always and if necessary use words.

For far too long has the worldly use their faith as a means to subjugate others. Let us not make our Church one of them. As much as it is within God's Grace let us express our faith in love.

Pax

« Last Edit: November 20, 2006, 12:00:43 AM by francis-christopher » Logged

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« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2006, 12:06:27 AM »

Z'Bogom my friend.
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« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2006, 03:09:43 AM »

But thank you all for confirming my suspicions about the Eastern Orthodox and confirming for me the fact that the Catholic Church is the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church and the Eastern Orthodox are just another schismatic and heretical group.
Well, I suppose if you can't stand the heat, it's best to get out of the kitchen, but it's pretty cowardly not to admit it was the heat that drove you out.
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« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2006, 10:21:47 AM »

Well, I suppose if you can't stand the heat, it's best to get out of the kitchen, but it's pretty cowardly not to admit it was the heat that drove you out.

Well put!

This individual's posting record was initially distinguished by his posting malicious claims regarding one of the great saints and theologians  of the Church that he only retracted once pressed to 'prove' his accusation:

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,9936.0.html

His later posts showed a habit of being unable to support a claim he would make, followed by an assault on the poster and/or the Church--which is proven within this thread!

Good job, Papist! Once again you display the axiom that 'by your fruits shall you be known...', as well as the wisdom in giving folks like you a lot of rope---you'll prove to everyone what kind of qualities you do have.

Indeed, his latest fiasco---where he openly praised documents widely considered to be forgeries because these documents supported his equally artificial understanding of reality---was just one more example of how the 'firebrand' Roman Catholic apologists always seem to start posting, then get frustrated, and leave in a huff when they are confronted with facts that upturn their applecart---instead of dealing with these new facts to help them grow personally and spiritually.

Roman Catholics with a much more balanced approach, such as francis-christopher and lubeltri most recently, join Jakub as long term posters, because they see the treasures herein.

Papist is welcome to return, as all Roman Catholics are welcome to post here, as clearly the Truth needs to spread and grow and this site serves in this capacity. However, if Papist is not willing to learn, he is welcome to place himself in the same categories as Romanum Imperium, and all the others similar to this ilk, who scurry from the Light just as discussed in the opening chapter of John.
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« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2006, 01:08:38 PM »

Papist,

A couple of observations.

1.   I would hope that you reconsider (as I agree that diversity of opinion is a good thing), plus it gives us OC's an opportunity to show the world the Truth.

2.   <Puts on objective hat>  I really think you are off the mark about this site.  Anastasios, Chris, Cleveland are an unbelievably balanced group of admins and mods.  Much moreso than EVERY RC site I've ever been to.  On top of that, Dantxny, is an incredibly level headed, even handed and intellectual mod.  I really think your complaints above are without merit.  I find this site to be EXTREMELY charitable. Trust me, I got the boot (banned) from two RC forums for simply raising the RC role in Croatia during WWII as well as raising the less than truthful statements given by (now deceased) RC Bishop Marko Sopi, when he testified before a congressional committee.

But thank you all for confirming my suspicions about the Eastern Orthodox and confirming for me the fact that the Catholic Church is the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church and the Eastern Orthodox are just another schismatic and heretical group.

3.  I trust you'll believe me when I tell you that I was banned from two RC forums when I said nothing nearly as uncharitable as this quote.

Quote
Many Blessings to you all in our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, and I will pray for all of your conversions.

4.  Is this charitable?

Quote
The Eastern Orthodox are allowed to say what ever vile thing they feel about the Catholic Church

5.  One last thing.  Admittedly, I am one of the least knowledgeable posters here, but I know enough to tell you that you do not belong to the Catholic Church, rather the Roman Catholic Church.

6.  I hope you reconsider and instead about complaining about the site, sharpen your debating skills and defend your Roman Catholic faith with substance, rather than rhetoric and unsupported conclusions.

7.   Last (and maybe most important), is that you seem to condemn Orthodoxy, based upon the opinions herein.  A couple of problems with that... As far as I know, I don't think anyone who posts here, has the authority to make their opinion binding upon Orthodoxy (except maybe GiC).  If your opinion of all of Orthodoxy is swayed by "some" uncharitable posts (as you allege), then you must not have had a very favorable opinion to begin with.  In that vain, I suppose it is nothing lost to us.  Lastly, if your opinion *truly* has been formed based on a few uncharitable posts (then you mind is very maliable) and I could produce some posts from RC posters, which might make you convert to Islam, Bhuddism or something else...

Best regards.
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« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2006, 01:25:24 PM »

good bye, God Bless you and don't let the door hit you on the way out.
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« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2006, 02:03:09 PM »

I don't think anyone who posts here, has the authority to make their opinion binding upon Orthodoxy (except maybe GiC). 

lol!!!!!!!!!!!    Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
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« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2006, 03:30:52 PM »

Quote
Many Blessings to you all in our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, and I will pray for all of your conversions.

Personally speaking, I find the views of Mr. Papist rather refreshing.  I never cease to be astounded by the thin level of allegiance, or the widespread dissension from church teaching, that I find in pretty much every lay Catholic who I ever end up discussing religious matters with.
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« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2006, 05:33:06 PM »

Just a couple of things are needed here...a open heart and mind...thinking outside of the box...and a good supply of cold fermented beverages...

It's deja-vu all over again...

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« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2006, 05:41:39 PM »

and I will pray for all of your conversions.

Thanks, but I'm good where I am, thanks be to God, of course!

Scamandrius
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« Reply #13 on: November 20, 2006, 07:53:58 PM »

South Serb,
Excellent post! Great job.

Papist,
I suggest you to re-consider your decision. Having said that, I would like to emphasize that I have found this place really charitable. There were occasions, when some posters and I disagreed on certain topics. That did not go to any kind of animosity, ill will, etc. Finally, your prayers are appreciated, but thanks God, we are already in the Church.
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« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2006, 08:50:23 PM »

Dramatics!  Grin
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« Reply #15 on: November 20, 2006, 10:34:52 PM »

Dramatics!  Grin
I agree. I must say that I apologize to everyone for being so rash. However, I will stay away from debates on this forum for the time being while I consider the whole situation.
Many Blessings in Christ
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« Reply #16 on: November 20, 2006, 11:21:31 PM »

I agree. I must say that I apologize to everyone for being so rash. However, I will stay away from debates on this forum for the time being while I consider the whole situation.
Many Blessings in Christ

In nomine Iesu I offer you Papist continued peace and heartfelt Blessings,

I believe that is a step in the right direction if you might forgive me for being so bold. It is so often that these kinds of moments offer us encounters with God's Grace. Pray and perhaps fast and listen with your heart. This could be for you an encounter with the divine.

Pax
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« Reply #17 on: November 21, 2006, 12:13:07 AM »

I agree. I must say that I apologize to everyone for being so rash. However, I will stay away from debates on this forum for the time being while I consider the whole situation.
Many Blessings in Christ

I accept your apology and forget it. I apologize to you if I was rash in my approach in any way at any time.

It is probably a good idea for you to step back for awhile. But you are welcome to join back at any point if you think it will be spiritually beneficial for yourself and us.

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« Reply #18 on: November 21, 2006, 12:21:11 AM »


It is probably a good idea for you to step back for awhile. But you are welcome to join back at any point if you think it will be spiritually beneficial for yourself and us.


Yeah! Me too!

seriously...if you need to take some time off, that's cool! As I posted earlier, you're always welcome to participate, but not to troll, as this is the behavior of someone who is angry, and anger chases away the Spirit seeking to cause Christ to grow within you.
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« Reply #19 on: November 21, 2006, 01:05:59 AM »

Papist,

It is good that you are taking time to consider your decision.

I would humbly suggest that as you pray and think, consider what role on this forum will be most spiritually fruitful for you. Apologetics can be a frustrating, soul-straining business, especially when charity breaks down. It is best always to consider foremost the spiritual fruit our activities bring.

I hope to see you here again soon!

Lubeltri
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« Reply #20 on: November 21, 2006, 11:48:33 AM »

Post when you have the energy to post and don't when you don't. I only visit occasionally because there seems to a profound gulf between the way Orthodox comprehend the faith and how to debate it and the way Latin Catholics do. Its not malice on either side just a large measure of incomprehension. I still believe re-unification is possible. Its just not likely to be as imminent as I once hoped. As the man said

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In Christianity truth is not a philosophical concept, nor is it a theory, a teaching, or a system, but rather it is the living theanthropic hypostasis -- the historical Jesus Christ (Jn. 14:6). Before Christ men could only conjecture about the Truth since they did not possess it. With Christ as the incarnate divine Logos the eternally complete divine Truth enters into the world. For this reason the Gospel says: `Truth came by Jesus Christ' (Jn. 1:17). St. Justin Popovich, Orthodox Faith and Life in Christ
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« Reply #21 on: November 25, 2006, 05:24:54 PM »

You see, to love of God is joined also love of neighbor: the person who loves God doesn't neglect his brother; nor esteem money ahead of a limb of his own but shows him great generosity, mindful of Him Who has said, 'Whoever did it to the least of My brothers did it to Me.' He is aware that the Lord of all considers as done to Himself the service given to his fellow servant, and so he will perform every service with great enthusiasm and give evidence of great generosity in almsgiving, considering not the lowliness of appearance but the greatness of the One Who has promised to accept as done to Himself what is given to the poor.

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« Reply #22 on: December 30, 2006, 11:46:22 AM »

Hi all! I am a greek orthodox but I will agree with Papist that there is not a lot of charity among the orthodox, laity and clergy, especially towards the RC and other christian denominations. I personnaly don't like this at all.
 My opinion is that the catholics have more love than we orthodox. We should imitate them on this.

But...I do not feel as a schismatic- I feel we are brothers in Christ, that Orthodox and RC Churches are Sisters.

Thank you
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« Reply #23 on: January 22, 2007, 03:21:07 PM »

Papist

Sorry that you feel the way you do.

It is like  most situations with people. People are members of various organizations and change their behavior from one organization to the other to suit the conditions of each situation. You know and uncle who is a brother who is a father and so on. He loves all his "titles" and relative duties. Some conditions like 'uncle' you get heaved onto you without choice.

Orthodox Christians are a variation (unfortunately) we do not all believe the same thing. Although we want others to see us as an undivided unit. This site shows that we are not.

You have experienced on this forum only a 'micro-dot' of what orthodoxy is and what it means to be orthodox on this forum.

Yes I agree many (maybe too many) people who post on this forum feel that they can say anything anyway they want especially if 'they' were treated poorly by another 'poster'. THIS IS NOT ORTHOODXY.

Their is another thread which is also accusing that this forum is not 'orthodox'. I have many orthodox acquaintances who will not post on this forum and feel it is poorly overseen.

I feel that I can offer the sight something and I have learned some things in the process.

I have read the various justifications for the bad behavior from us. Some stating that you earned it for your own rife and whimsical comments.

This is not justification at all.

It is a move against true orthodoxy.

Just think if each of us got from God our 'just reward'.!!

We would all be dead.

("As We forgive those who trespassed against us".....This is what we pray but apparently NOT DO)

The Holy Orthodox Church is the keeper of the order of Christ. An order where all that is righteous on earth among man is measured in Christ-like-ness.

We who are orthodox must thus give when others take, stand when others sit, smile when others frown, cry when other laugh, do good when other do us evil or treat us unfairly and so on.

You did not experience anything like that on this thread. For this I am sorry.

I extend my sincere request for forgiveness for my brothers in Christ who have some how or in some way alienated you.

We are all under Gods mercy and not our own righteousness. EO OO need to stop feeling as though each have something more "holy" than the other. This Goes for RC"s to.

Hell is already prepared to receive most of the people that has ever lived on the planet. The Key word here is 'most'.

This biblical fact should make people shutter with fear Since this includes enough room for RC"s all the Orthodox and anybody else out there that is 'with God'.

God is in His Kingdom.

May God bless you.

Yours in Christ

Fr. Deacon Amde Tsion
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« Reply #24 on: January 22, 2007, 03:42:36 PM »

Hi all! I am a greek orthodox but I will agree with Papist that there is not a lot of charity among the orthodox, laity and clergy, especially towards the RC and other christian denominations. I personnaly don't like this at all.
 My opinion is that the catholics have more love than we orthodox. We should imitate them on this.

But...I do not feel as a schismatic- I feel we are brothers in Christ, that Orthodox and RC Churches are Sisters.

Thank you


Regarding what you refer to as other 'denominations'.

I invite you to do research on the formation of most of what is compiled under this category and most of these groups believe. After researching e few please post as to whether these "other denominations' are the Church. We are not to look down on anyone of course but these groups are far far away from the teaching of the Holy Church.

I agree that the RCC and OC is one Church. Rome has administrative differences (A sense of Global hierarchy), some doctrinal differences but I see them as local to Rome and not a breach of what makesthe Holy Church the 'Holy Church'.
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« Reply #25 on: January 22, 2007, 03:55:12 PM »

Regarding what you refer to as other 'denominations'.

I invite you to do research on the formation of most of what is compiled under this category and most of these groups believe. After researching e few please post as to whether these "other denominations' are the Church. We are not to look down on anyone of course but these groups are far far away from the teaching of the Holy Church.

I agree that the RCC and OC is one Church. Rome has administrative differences (A sense of Global hierarchy), some doctrinal differences but I see them as local to Rome and not a breach of what makesthe Holy Church the 'Holy Church'.


Then you disagree with your own Church, which if I understand correctly, anathematizes Leo of Rome and baptizes Catholics. Are you telling me that you disagree with your hierarchy and fathers?

Anastasios
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« Reply #26 on: January 22, 2007, 03:55:43 PM »

Thanks for the very gracious and Christ-like comments, Amdetsion.

I too see our Orthodox brothers as sister churches of true apostolic origin. (Better put, my Church sees you that way.)

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« Reply #27 on: January 22, 2007, 08:44:22 PM »

Then you disagree with your own Church, which if I understand correctly, anathematizes Leo of Rome and baptizes Catholics. Are you telling me that you disagree with your hierarchy and fathers?

Anastasios

I do not have a "church".

Do you have a 'church"?

If so; where did you get "yours"?

That's one of the big problems we all have. Too many of us are pre-occupied with the 'fraternal' , local, "church" of their heritage. So much is placed on this that people (maybe you are one) think or fail to realize that the One Holy Universal and Apostolic Church is NOT from their home town. IT is from Jerusalem in the east.

The Church is not 'from' Rome it came to Rome Via the Apostolic mission. It came to Rome, Greece, and the west as well as to Syria Armenia, Africa and the east. Actually it came to the east before the west.

But that's not important.

What is important is that "the Church" (which is my church) is the one that the Apostles sent out in accordance with The command of Christ. Christ placed the whole Church complete in the hands of the Holy Apostles. The Greeks added nothing, The Romans added nothing, The Bulgarians added nothing, Syria, Ethiopia, Egypt, Armenia, Georgia, OCA, whoever from where ever has added NOTHING. All glory is to God through the power of the Holy Spirit.

God is in His Kingdom we are not in any kingdom. Christ is in His Kingdom, we are not in any Kingdom. God and Christ are One and thus the Kingdoms to come is unified ....ONE. We are not in any kingdom at all. So who is to say they have a church. WE pray "thy KIngdom come".....

Thats where we are trying to get into. Or maybe we are happy being members of our esteemed local church hear on earth.

The Holy Church is not a decision made or not made in Byzantium or Constantinople. It is not a decree of a great and Holy apostolic synod. The Church IS the Holy Body and blood of the crucified and resurrected and ascended Christ. It begins and ends there.

All we have is Christs mercy and compassion which he commanded us to give like wise to each other.

As believers can we do that for His Holy names sake?

If we can then we are His Children.... Romans, Ethiopians, Bulgarians, Russians etc.

The Lord says a house divided WILL NOT stand. That to me means the whole house will fall not just the part that is separated from the whole. We have to love our RC brothers and they us. WE have to struggle to get the protestants back home as well as all the other "denominations". But first we have to love each other. EO and OO must be unified. We can't say "well that is them; I am safe in the true church with everything all good".

Lets stop  kidding ourselves.

You and your "church" needs the mercy of Christ. No amount of Vestments, or Holy Icons or prayers or retinues of clergy or huge church buildings will ever change that.

Christ is All in All. He is my (our) master and I am humbled by His Glory. His Church is "the Church" that I am in and will leave this world in if with His help.

I love the Church fathers they are the Sheppard's of the flock. The fathers teach that the  flock belongs not to the Sheppard but to his master.

What my Holy fathers say I follow.

And just like my holy fathers I rely on Gods guidance in all things. His mercy is my means of survival.

We have to love one another.

There is no other choice.

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« Reply #28 on: January 22, 2007, 09:02:53 PM »

Then you disagree with your own Church, which if I understand correctly, anathematizes Leo of Rome and baptizes Catholics. Are you telling me that you disagree with your hierarchy and fathers?

I think that last post of his was a very long-winded way of saying "yes."
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« Reply #29 on: January 22, 2007, 09:08:58 PM »

The Church is not divided; Roman Catholics are not in the Church.  I say this because I follow the Holy Fathers and the Holy Councils of the Church of Christ, not because of some malicious hatred of those who are different.

Loving the separated Christians and showing them respect is different than embracing them as one with us. When you say things like

Quote
You and your "church" needs the mercy of Christ. No amount of Vestments, or Holy Icons or prayers or retinues of clergy or huge church buildings will ever change that.

I am amazed at your presumption.  You don't know me or what I think.  You don't know how my wife and I are struggling to build a Church from the ground up locally; how dare you accuse me of equating the Body of Christ with externals like vestments?  You presume too much.

Heretics separate themselves from the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church. They are not one with it.  It is our duty to love them. And that means more than just being nice to them; it means sharing Orthodoxy with them.

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« Reply #30 on: January 22, 2007, 09:09:51 PM »

Quote
Lets stop  kidding ourselves.

If only.
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« Reply #31 on: January 22, 2007, 10:46:40 PM »

The Church is not divided; Roman Catholics are not in the Church.  I say this because I follow the Holy Fathers and the Holy Councils of the Church of Christ,

So do we.
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« Reply #32 on: January 22, 2007, 11:01:48 PM »

So do we.

Well, there is some disagreement as to who the fathers and councils are between us Smiley

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« Reply #33 on: January 22, 2007, 11:15:25 PM »

Well, there is some disagreement as to who the fathers and councils are between us Smiley

Anastasios

Indeed. Just pointing out that we also consider the Fathers and Councils as part of our patrimony and appeal to them.  Smiley That's our basis for considering you folks as belonging to true particular churches, though you are not in full communion with us.
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« Reply #34 on: January 23, 2007, 04:10:23 PM »

The Church is not divided; Roman Catholics are not in the Church.  I say this because I follow the Holy Fathers and the Holy Councils of the Church of Christ, not because of some malicious hatred of those who are different.

Loving the separated Christians and showing them respect is different than embracing them as one with us. When you say things like

I am amazed at your presumption.  You don't know me or what I think.  You don't know how my wife and I are struggling to build a Church from the ground up locally; how dare you accuse me of equating the Body of Christ with externals like vestments?  You presume too much.

Heretics separate themselves from the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church. They are not one with it.  It is our duty to love them. And that means more than just being nice to them; it means sharing Orthodoxy with them.

Anastasios

I am sorry.

You are taking my words way out of context and much too personally.

My points were not necessarily about you.

I do not know anyone on this site. That should be obvious.

My point about vestments, Icons and church buildings was my way of building on a metaphor that the church is the faith in Christ and a life lived in obedience to His commandments. Maybe I did not write it that well.

Again just an attempt at  'metaphor'..

This was not to be taken as an attack on you or how you believe. Neither was I undermining your building program with your wife. I did not know you were doing that until now.

God bless you all in that endeavor.

On the issue....

I agree with you.

The RC are separated from the Church. But they are still our brothers in Christ. Protestants are not since these groups are formed from an historical rebellion against the church.

Example:

If you your son leaves home with a bitter discontent and goes about life outside your order away from the "family" he is still your son. Yet he is NOT with the family and will not be until he returns leaving his prior folly behind. But he is still your son. If your neighbor asks about him you would say "yes that's my son but he is  NOT with the family".

This is just an example. I do not mean to imply anything about your family life. It is a metaphorical "suppose".

In the above example I see myself as loving my son and that he would one day come back 'into the family'. And until then if I see him on the street I will bless him simply because he is my son. I can not walk with him cause his ways and my ways are not in-kind.

So We should not treat our each other poorly RC and O. We should respect each other.

Sorry for the huge confusion with my previous post.



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« Reply #35 on: January 24, 2007, 10:30:32 AM »

The RC are separated from the Church. But they are still our brothers in Christ. Protestants are not since these groups are formed from an historical rebellion against the church.


Did not the RC rebel against the Church when they added doctrines to the faith that had not any basis in Holy Scripture and the Tradition of the Church?

Howevery you answer, your statement above is ridiculous.  I'm not going to treat RCs one way and Protestants another just because of rebellions.  They are ALL are brothers, though they are misguided and wrong on a number of issues but that should not stop us from speaking the Truth to them in faith, hope and charity.

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« Reply #36 on: January 24, 2007, 11:02:28 AM »

I'm not going to treat RCs one way and Protestants another just because of rebellions.  They are ALL are brothers, though they are misguided and wrong on a number of issues but that should not stop us from speaking the Truth to them in faith, hope and charity.

I have to admit, I have gotten warmer receptions as a Roman Catholic on Orthodox forums and by Orthodox members compared to what I receive from fellow (well, for now fellow) Roman Catholics (whether on the internet or in person).  Sure, I get the ole Schismatic/Heretical thing thrown at me here and there, but nothing like the Whore of Babylon label we seem to wear according to some Protestants.  Even though we, by we I mean non-Orthodox members, are seen as heterodox, there has always been a sense of brotherhood from Orthodox members.  All that and the conversion means are not so aggressive, which is always nice.  It is hard to carry on a theological or dogmatic conversation with someone when every other sentence is "Repent damned one!  Be saved!".   Tongue  Anyways, I haven't had any problems on this site, keeping in mind I have not posted too much.
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« Reply #37 on: January 24, 2007, 11:24:18 AM »

^ That is because not enough of us Serbs have gotten to you, friend!!!  Grin Grin Grin
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« Reply #38 on: January 24, 2007, 11:29:34 AM »

^ That is because not enough of us Serbs have gotten to you, friend!!!  Grin Grin Grin

LoL!  I am sure that is only a matter of time.  My fiancee's mother seems to know the entire Canadian-Serbian diaspora, and I am sure it is only a matter of time before I am introduced to every last one of them.   Cheesy
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« Reply #39 on: January 24, 2007, 11:43:06 AM »

LoL!  I am sure that is only a matter of time.  My fiancee's mother seems to know the entire Canadian-Serbian diaspora, and I am sure it is only a matter of time before I am introduced to every last one of them.   Cheesy
We're going to tear you from limb to limb (with a smile of course).  Wink
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« Reply #40 on: January 24, 2007, 11:56:45 AM »

I don't know, I'm speaking generally and not just about this forum, but I've found plenty of Orthodox anti-Catholicism too. In some ways I think the animosity is deeper because we are so close. I know an Orthodox nun who couldn't say "Catholic" without spitting and sporting a ugly look on her face. She gave a talk on the Da Vinci Code, and at the end she said it was the Catholics' fault.

Of course, there are also many Protestants and Orthodox who are quite friendly with Catholics and sincerely seek some unity.
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« Reply #41 on: January 24, 2007, 12:12:56 PM »

Well I have a three-fold view of the relationship (from those who have a strong anti-Catholic sentiment).

1.  First group looks only to theological differences and views the RC's as heretics.  They view themselves as devout and have no room or time for false RC dogma.

2.   Second group has long standing historical resentment (Serbs fall into this group).  Serbs (by in large) view the RCC with a skeptical eye, suggesting the RCC's complicity with Croat Nazi's in the independent state of Croatia during WWII.  Many are convinced that the RCC has (as a goal) to destroy Serbia and Orthodoxy in general.

3.  Third group is what I call "The Canada Complex".  This is how many Canadians feel about Americans.  On the one hand, we share the longest unguarded border on the planet, we are HUGE trading partners, yet most Americans don't know much about Canada other than its big, they play hockey and it is really cold.  This breeds resentment by many Canadians.  Often, Canadians define themselves by how the differ from Americans.  I think many Orthodox Christians feels this way about RCs.  We were ONE Church.  We are closest to one another, yet MOST RC's don't know a thing about the Orthodox (and I don't mean the RCs here).  I'm talking about the average RC.

In fact, I have found that when I speak to a (go to church a few times a year Catholic) and tell them about Orthodoxy and how it differs from Roman Catholicism, they are genuinely intrigued.

On the flip side, many Orthodox define their Orthodoxy as how we differ from Roman Catholics.  -> Guy meets Serbian Orthodox Christian and asks him about it... he starts by saying "well we don't believe in the Pope, we don't have purgatory and that french sounding thing (Filioque)... we don't have that either).  Oh, and the broke off from us!!!
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« Reply #42 on: January 24, 2007, 12:18:45 PM »

We're going to tear you from limb to limb (with a smile of course).  Wink

LoL!  Well, the smile is a nice gesture.

Though, it cannot be as bad as a devoutly religious Bosnian Serb finding out her youngest daughter is dating a Roman Catholic.   Wink  Those were some fun times.   Shocked  And it was the first time in my life I was called a 'Ustasha'.

EDIT:  What timing.   Tongue  Oh yes, I have experienced point 2. 
And about point 3, the average RC does not know a thing about Roman Catholicism.  Look at the whole 'Pro multis' announcement, it was a huge step yet only a handful of traditional Catholics know about.  Most don't even know the Church's stances on key issues, nor know about certain pieces of dogma.  Mention the immaculate conception to most RCs and they will tell you it was when Christ was conceived.  Many RCs need to learn about their own faith first.  I would have to agree a lot with the Canada/America statement (bleh, now I am being seen as "American"?  Conversion cannot happen soon enough then.   Wink)
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« Reply #43 on: January 24, 2007, 12:22:08 PM »

Good summary. You forgot to add that the guy continued: "We don't have purgatory, but we do have Toll Houses." Catholic response: "Yummy!"

(For our non-American forum members:

)
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« Reply #44 on: January 24, 2007, 12:58:45 PM »

Good summary. You forgot to add that the guy continued: "We don't have purgatory, but we do have Toll Houses." Catholic response: "Yummy!"

Mmmmmmmmm, now that is a Church (and such a great visual).   Grin
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