Author Topic: What more does the Father have than the Son has except unbegotten-ness?  (Read 1392 times)

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Offline nonchal

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What more does the Father have than the Son has except unbegotten-ness?

Just want to see what the exact responses are...

Offline serb1389

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Re: What more does the Father have than the Son has except unbegotten-ness?
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2006, 11:40:40 PM »
He has the will of the Father...

He sends for the Spirit (the Son doesn't)

How much of the subject do you know?  Are you familiar with the Nicene Creed?  That would be a good place to start... :)
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Offline Salpy

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Re: What more does the Father have than the Son has except unbegotten-ness?
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2006, 02:14:25 AM »
I have heard the Father described as the "fountainhead" of the Holy Trinity, but I really don't understand exactly what that means.  I think it has to do with the Father being the source of the Holy Trinity's unity.  Not that I understand what that means either.   :)   Anyway, whatever it means, I think it is something that one can't say about the Son.

Offline chrisb

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Re: What more does the Father have than the Son has except unbegotten-ness?
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2006, 10:26:15 PM »
How can God the Son be anything but 'equal' with God the Father and God the Holy Ghost?
For whoever does the will of God is my brother and sister and mother. - Mark 3:35

Offline serb1389

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Re: What more does the Father have than the Son has except unbegotten-ness?
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2006, 01:47:21 AM »
Depends on what you mean by "how" and what you mean by "equal"  ;)

I meant it seriously, I was just trying to be humorous at the same time. 

Your question is a little vague, if you could provide some details that would be great! 
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Offline chrisb

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Re: What more does the Father have than the Son has except unbegotten-ness?
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2006, 10:05:30 PM »
Depends on what you mean by "how" and what you mean by "equal"  ;)

I meant it seriously, I was just trying to be humorous at the same time. 

Your question is a little vague, if you could provide some details that would be great! 

I believe Lossky touches on it here better than I:

The only characteristic of the hypostases which we can state to be exclusively proper to each, and which is never found in the others, by reason of their consubstantality, is thus the relation of origin. Nevertheless, this relation must be understood in an apophatic sense. It is above all a negation, showing us that the Father is neither the Son nor the Holy Spirit; that the Son is neither the Father nor the Spirit; that the Holy Spirit is neither the Father nor the Son. Otherwise to regard it would be to submit the Trinity to a category of Aristotelian logic, that of relation.Understood apophatically, the relation of origin describes the difference but nevertheless does not indicate the manner of the divine procession. 'The mode of generation and the mode of procession are incomprehensible,' says St. John Damascene. 'We have learned that there is a difference between generation and procession, but the nature of the difference we in no wise understand.' St. Gregory Nazianzen had already been forced to reject the attempts made to define the mode of the divine procession. 'You ask,' he says, 'what is the procession of the Holy Spirit? Do you tell me first what is the unbegottenness of the Father, and I will then explain to you the physiology of the generation of the Son, and the procession of the Spirit, and we shall both of us be stricken with madness for prying into the mystery of God.'

Was it not this kind of prying with the Godhead which started the Arian Heresies elevating one person in degrees above or below another? I believe it should be avoided.
For whoever does the will of God is my brother and sister and mother. - Mark 3:35

Offline serb1389

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Re: What more does the Father have than the Son has except unbegotten-ness?
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2006, 11:27:50 PM »
I understand Lossky's point.  I agree with him, however I could find quotes of other fathers (beyond John of Damascus and Gregory Nazianzen) that could talk about different aspects of the hypostases, etc. 

This doesn't mean that I disagree with their statements, or with what you are saying. 

I just like to keep my mind open to discussion.  In the long run, maybe it is better if we just stop at a certain point like these Fathers told us to. 

I think the initial question, however, was out of confusion and curiosity about a subject that the poster did not have knowledge of.  So why not help the person get a better grasp...that was my original reasoning. 

You could be right about the whole thing though....now that I think about it... ;)
I got nothing.
I forgot the maps
March 27th and May 30th 2010 were my Ordination dates, please forgive everything before that