OrthodoxChristianity.net
September 22, 2014, 10:43:04 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: « 1 2 3 »  All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Greatest Orthodox theologian of the 20th century?  (Read 7902 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
BeeDeePee
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christianity
Posts: 6


« Reply #45 on: January 11, 2012, 08:02:43 PM »

Hard to say.
Maybe metropolitan John Zizioulas.
Logged
LBK
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Posts: 10,747


Holy Father Patrick, pray for us!


« Reply #46 on: January 11, 2012, 08:08:57 PM »

Quote
Father Deacon Brian Patrick Mitchell

Are you serious, Second Chance? Some of what he's espoused flies in the face of established, accepted Orthodox doctrinal and liturgical tradition, and he can get quite nasty and irrational when he's called out.
Logged
FormerReformer
Convertodox of the convertodox
Site Supporter
Archon
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: I'll take (e) for "all of the above"
Posts: 2,435



WWW
« Reply #47 on: January 11, 2012, 08:19:01 PM »

Second Chance, you placed Fr Alexander Schmemann at the top of the list without including Fr Seraphim Rose at all! Are you trying to start another flame war, man? For the sake of the children you could have at least buried Fr Alexander half-way down the list or something!

As for your second-tier picks- the ones I've read are right on, save David Bentley Hart. A little too much syrup for my taste.
Logged

"Funny," said Lancelot, "how the people who can't pray say that prayers are not answered, however much the people who can pray say they are."  TH White

Oh, no: I've succumbed to Hyperdoxy!
Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 6,795



« Reply #48 on: January 11, 2012, 09:29:11 PM »

Quote
Father Deacon Brian Patrick Mitchell

Are you serious, Second Chance? Some of what he's espoused flies in the face of established, accepted Orthodox doctrinal and liturgical tradition, and he can get quite nasty and irrational when he's called out.

I have butted heads with him and I know what you are saying. Nonetheless, his work is informed and should be considered.
Logged

Michal: "SC, love you in this thread."
Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 6,795



« Reply #49 on: January 11, 2012, 09:40:40 PM »

Second Chance, you placed Fr Alexander Schmemann at the top of the list without including Fr Seraphim Rose at all! Are you trying to start another flame war, man? For the sake of the children you could have at least buried Fr Alexander half-way down the list or something!

As for your second-tier picks- the ones I've read are right on, save David Bentley Hart. A little too much syrup for my taste.

Oops!!! I am of a "mature age,' what else can I say? Father Seraphim definitely belongs, perhaps as high as at the head of the "Up and Coming" category. Of course, I would then have to add Archbishop Lazar, but further down the list.

Regarding Father Alexander of blessed memory, I predict that he will be known as the Chrysostom of the Modern Age, placed amongst the greatest theologians of all time and be credited for the revival of Orthodoxy. I do not think that this will happen anytime soon but give it another 50 years and we will see quite a few "Saint Alexander Chrysostom" Orthodox Churches adoring the landscape.
Logged

Michal: "SC, love you in this thread."
Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 6,795



« Reply #50 on: January 11, 2012, 09:41:50 PM »

It seems to me that there are several different kinds of theology: systemic/dogmatic, pastoral, liturgical, etc.. So, it is possible to have more than one "greatest" theologian of the 20th Century (my choice is Father Schmemann). However, in addition to the horizontal dimension above, we should also consider the criteria for determining the vertical placement of our theologians in each of those areas. I would think that asking our bishops, priests and laity in a systematic way would indicate their preferences. Another way would be to objectively consider the number of copies sold and/or number of times they are cited. I think that based on my very limited survey of the objective criteria, the following theologians should be considered:

Good points... perhaps an expanded questionairre should be developed, if we really want to get something more comprehensive and/or less subjective.

Quote
First Tier:
Father Georges Florovsky

I wish his collected works would be published again, they're quite expensive to buy right now. I know large chunks of some books are online, but I like reading actual books.

Quote
Saint Iustin Popović

I look forward to his Dogmatic Theology finally being released!

Quote
Up and Coming:

I'd add Fr. John Anthony McGuckin to this list.

Yes!
Logged

Michal: "SC, love you in this thread."
Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 6,795



« Reply #51 on: January 11, 2012, 09:48:17 PM »

Here is my updated list:

First Tier:

Father Alexander Schmemann
Metropolitan Kallistos (Ware)
Father Georges Florovsky
Father John Meyendorff
Saint Iustin Popović
Metropolitan John Zizioulas
Vladimir Lossky
Father Dumitru Stăniloae

Up and Coming:

Father Seraphim Rose
Saint Nikolai Velimirovich
Father Thomas Hopko
Father Michael Pomazansky
Father Alexander Men
Metropolitan Hilarion (Alfayev)
Metropolitan Antony (Bloom)
Father Demetrios J. Constantelos
Jim Forrest
David Bentley Hart
Metropolitan Hierotheos (Vlachos)
Archbishop Lazar (Puhalo)
Father Deacon Brian Patrick Mitchell
Father John Romanides
Archimandrite Sophrony (Sakharov)
Father George Metallinos
Olivier-Maurice Clément
Father John Behr
Matthew Gallatin
Father  Lawrence R. Farley
Father Patrick Henry Reardon
Father Michael Keiser
Father Meletios Webber
Father Jack N. Sparks
Father John Whiteford
Lewis Patsavos
Archbishop Peter L' Huillier
Peter Bouteneff
Father John Anthony McGuckin
Kh. Frederica Mathewes-Green

UPDATED February 7, 2012
« Last Edit: February 07, 2012, 06:03:16 PM by Second Chance » Logged

Michal: "SC, love you in this thread."
Ionnis
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: ROCOR
Posts: 1,071



« Reply #52 on: January 11, 2012, 10:02:25 PM »

Metropolitan Hierotheos (Vlachos)
Logged

"If you cannot find Christ in the beggar at the church door, you will not find Him in the chalice.”  -The Divine John Chrysostom

“Till we can become divine, we must be content to be human, lest in our hurry for change we sink to something lower.” -Anthony Trollope
LBK
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Posts: 10,747


Holy Father Patrick, pray for us!


« Reply #53 on: January 11, 2012, 11:12:05 PM »

Quote
Father Deacon Brian Patrick Mitchell

Are you serious, Second Chance? Some of what he's espoused flies in the face of established, accepted Orthodox doctrinal and liturgical tradition, and he can get quite nasty and irrational when he's called out.

I have butted heads with him and I know what you are saying. Nonetheless, his work is informed and should be considered.

When an ordained Orthodox clergyman refuses to recognize, much less believe, certain aspects of doctrine on the Mother of God as expressed in Orthodox hymnography, and, when challenged on this, gets aggressive and goes to water, I cannot take him seriously.
Logged
Justin Kissel
Formerly Asteriktos
Protospatharios
****************
Online Online

Posts: 29,875



« Reply #54 on: January 11, 2012, 11:13:54 PM »

When an ordained Orthodox clergyman refuses to recognize, much less believe, certain aspects of doctrine on the Mother of God as expressed in Orthodox hymnography, and, when challenged on this, gets aggressive and goes to water, I cannot take him seriously.

Which aspects of doctrine are they? Seems to me that not believing in her ever-virginity is a far way off from not believing that she literally resided in the Temple.
Logged
LBK
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Posts: 10,747


Holy Father Patrick, pray for us!


« Reply #55 on: January 11, 2012, 11:16:50 PM »

When an ordained Orthodox clergyman refuses to recognize, much less believe, certain aspects of doctrine on the Mother of God as expressed in Orthodox hymnography, and, when challenged on this, gets aggressive and goes to water, I cannot take him seriously.

Which aspects of doctrine are they? Seems to me that not believing in her ever-virginity is a far way off from not believing that she literally resided in the Temple.

PM me, and I'll be glad to show you the error of the good deacon's ways.
Logged
Shanghaiski
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 7,970


Holy Trinity Church of Gergeti, Georgia


« Reply #56 on: January 11, 2012, 11:23:47 PM »

Metropolitan Hierotheos (Vlachos)

+1
Logged

Quote from: GabrieltheCelt
If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
Quote from: orthonorm
I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.
GabrieltheCelt
Hillbilly Extraordinaire
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 6,988


Chasin' down a Hoodoo...


« Reply #57 on: January 12, 2012, 05:34:07 AM »

I have my favorites and think it's OK to do so, but to rank our theologians in terms of greatness is a Western notion and really silly endeavor.  Of course, that's only my opinion.  Forgive me if I've offended anyone.
Logged

"The Scots-Irish; Brewed in Scotland, bottled in Ireland, uncorked in America."  ~Scots-Irish saying
BeeDeePee
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christianity
Posts: 6


« Reply #58 on: January 12, 2012, 10:00:12 AM »

I have my favorites and think it's OK to do so, but to rank our theologians in terms of greatness is a Western notion and really silly endeavor.  Of course, that's only my opinion.  Forgive me if I've offended anyone.
I agree.
I think that every of mentioned theologians has something good, but no one is good in everything.
Logged
Justin Kissel
Formerly Asteriktos
Protospatharios
****************
Online Online

Posts: 29,875



« Reply #59 on: January 12, 2012, 10:16:12 AM »

I have my favorites and think it's OK to do so, but to rank our theologians in terms of greatness is a Western notion and really silly endeavor.  Of course, that's only my opinion.  Forgive me if I've offended anyone.

Perhaps it'd be better to speak of favorites, or the ones most helpful to us, rather than greatest or best. I do think such lists are a natural human tendency, and not just a "Western notion," though I must admit, when I think about the three hierarchs debate, I am reminded that we aren't supposed to pit one theologian/saint against another.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2012, 10:16:31 AM by Asteriktos » Logged
Fotina02
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 172



« Reply #60 on: January 12, 2012, 12:06:27 PM »

I have my favorites and think it's OK to do so, but to rank our theologians in terms of greatness is a Western notion and really silly endeavor.  Of course, that's only my opinion.  Forgive me if I've offended anyone.

Perhaps it'd be better to speak of favorites, or the ones most helpful to us, rather than greatest or best. I do think such lists are a natural human tendency, and not just a "Western notion," though I must admit, when I think about the three hierarchs debate, I am reminded that we aren't supposed to pit one theologian/saint against another.

Some on SC's list oppose each other rather vehemently e.g. Fr John Whiteford and Abp. Lazor Puhalo.
See http://fatherjohn.blogspot.com/2012/01/very-most-retired-archbishop-rants.html.

This criteria does not determine "greatness" or truth:
Quote
objectively consider the number of copies sold and/or number of times they are cited
and neither does popularity, or one's preference (we're far from perfection to judge).  Leave it to the Church to reveal the great ones of faith.

One I recently discovered is Holy Hieromartyr Hilarion (Troitsky), Archbishop of Verey.

Read his life: http://www.pravoslavie.ru/english/33316.htm

Quote
One of the most eminent figures of the Russian Orthodox Church in the 1920s was Archbishop Hilarion of Verey, an outstanding theologian and extremely talented individual. Throughout his life he burned with great love for the Church of Christ, right up to his martyric death for her sake.

On April 27/May 10, 1999, Holy Hieromartyr Hilarion, Archbishop of Verey, was glorified as a saint by the Moscow Patriarchate of the Russian Orthodox Church.

St. Hilarion left a large body of homilies and apologetical writings iincluding:

HOLY SCRIPTURE AND THE CHURCH http://www.orthodox.cn/catechesis/sthilariontroitsky/scripturechurch_en.htm

Logged
Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 6,795



« Reply #61 on: January 12, 2012, 01:59:21 PM »

I have my favorites and think it's OK to do so, but to rank our theologians in terms of greatness is a Western notion and really silly endeavor.  Of course, that's only my opinion.  Forgive me if I've offended anyone.

Perhaps it'd be better to speak of favorites, or the ones most helpful to us, rather than greatest or best. I do think such lists are a natural human tendency, and not just a "Western notion," though I must admit, when I think about the three hierarchs debate, I am reminded that we aren't supposed to pit one theologian/saint against another.

Some on SC's list oppose each other rather vehemently e.g. Fr John Whiteford and Abp. Lazor Puhalo.
See http://fatherjohn.blogspot.com/2012/01/very-most-retired-archbishop-rants.html.

This criteria does not determine "greatness" or truth:
Quote
objectively consider the number of copies sold and/or number of times they are cited
and neither does popularity, or one's preference (we're far from perfection to judge).  Leave it to the Church to reveal the great ones of faith.

One I recently discovered is Holy Hieromartyr Hilarion (Troitsky), Archbishop of Verey.

Read his life: http://www.pravoslavie.ru/english/33316.htm

Quote
One of the most eminent figures of the Russian Orthodox Church in the 1920s was Archbishop Hilarion of Verey, an outstanding theologian and extremely talented individual. Throughout his life he burned with great love for the Church of Christ, right up to his martyric death for her sake.

On April 27/May 10, 1999, Holy Hieromartyr Hilarion, Archbishop of Verey, was glorified as a saint by the Moscow Patriarchate of the Russian Orthodox Church.

St. Hilarion left a large body of homilies and apologetical writings iincluding:
ariontroitsky/scripturechurch_en.htm


Just one caveat: You said "Leave it to the Church to reveal the great ones of faith." Well, who/what exactly is the Church? In Constantinople after the Council of Florence, the Church was  not the Patriarch, almost all of the bishops and ruling-class laity; it was St Mark of Ephesus leading the little folks who were the Church.
Logged

Michal: "SC, love you in this thread."
akimel
Fr Aidan
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: ROCOR (Western Rite)
Posts: 519



WWW
« Reply #62 on: January 13, 2012, 07:37:29 PM »

This is such a difficult, perhaps impossible, question to answer.  It all depends on one's criteria.  And if we are restricted to theology written in English or translated into English, as I am, then we are at a significant disadvantage!  Surely there are many Orthodox theologians who have not yet been translated into English, who may well be unknown not only to non-Orthodox Christians but also to English-speaking Orthodox Christians.  I had no idea, for example, that St Justin Popovich had written a dogmatics of the Orthodox faith.  I'm sure there are many Orthodox theologians, whether Greek or Romanian or Russian or Serbian or whatever, whose writings are known only by their original audiences. 

What Orthodox theologians of the 20th century can compare to the great Protestant and Catholic theologians of the 20th century? 

Protestantism's great theologian of the 20th century was Karl Barth.  Hands down. Catholicism's great theologians of the 20th century were Karl Rahner and Hans Urs van Balthasar.  Hands down. They were great because of their erudition, creativity, produndity, and grasp of their respective theological traditions.

Are there any Orthodox theologians who can compare?

The only one who might compete with these three theologians  is Dumitru Staniloe.  I propose him not because I am well acquainted with his writings but because this is what other theologians say.  Most of his writings have yet to be translated into English, unfortunately.  Met John Ziziloulas is often cited here; but his writings are occasional, and he has become a controversial figure, especially among those Orthodox who have never read this writings.  Vladimir Lossky was an important figure, but his writings are flawed by his anit-Western polemicism.  He had an ax to grind. 

Georges Florovosky was a great theologian, but, like Zizioulas, his writings were occasional.  He never attempted a full-scale exposition of the Orthodox faith.  But he was a great theologian.  He understood that Orthodox theology could not remain in the ethnic ghetto.     

I love the writings of Fr Alexander Schmemann and Met Kallistos Ware; but they are not in the same league as Barth or Balthasar.    And as far as Fr Seraphim Rose, well, he ranks up there with Francis Schaeffer.   
Logged

Shanghaiski
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 7,970


Holy Trinity Church of Gergeti, Georgia


« Reply #63 on: January 13, 2012, 07:41:51 PM »

I have my favorites and think it's OK to do so, but to rank our theologians in terms of greatness is a Western notion and really silly endeavor.  Of course, that's only my opinion.  Forgive me if I've offended anyone.

Perhaps it'd be better to speak of favorites, or the ones most helpful to us, rather than greatest or best. I do think such lists are a natural human tendency, and not just a "Western notion," though I must admit, when I think about the three hierarchs debate, I am reminded that we aren't supposed to pit one theologian/saint against another.

Some on SC's list oppose each other rather vehemently e.g. Fr John Whiteford and Abp. Lazor Puhalo.
See http://fatherjohn.blogspot.com/2012/01/very-most-retired-archbishop-rants.html.

This criteria does not determine "greatness" or truth:
Quote
objectively consider the number of copies sold and/or number of times they are cited
and neither does popularity, or one's preference (we're far from perfection to judge).  Leave it to the Church to reveal the great ones of faith.

One I recently discovered is Holy Hieromartyr Hilarion (Troitsky), Archbishop of Verey.

Read his life: http://www.pravoslavie.ru/english/33316.htm

Quote
One of the most eminent figures of the Russian Orthodox Church in the 1920s was Archbishop Hilarion of Verey, an outstanding theologian and extremely talented individual. Throughout his life he burned with great love for the Church of Christ, right up to his martyric death for her sake.

On April 27/May 10, 1999, Holy Hieromartyr Hilarion, Archbishop of Verey, was glorified as a saint by the Moscow Patriarchate of the Russian Orthodox Church.

St. Hilarion left a large body of homilies and apologetical writings iincluding:
ariontroitsky/scripturechurch_en.htm


Just one caveat: You said "Leave it to the Church to reveal the great ones of faith." Well, who/what exactly is the Church? In Constantinople after the Council of Florence, the Church was  not the Patriarch, almost all of the bishops and ruling-class laity; it was St Mark of Ephesus leading the little folks who were the Church.

The Church of Constantinople, at least The Church of Rus was intact except for Isidore, who was rejected. The Church of Georgia's rep left Italy before the signing took place. IIRC, the Churches of Antioch, Jerusalem, Alexandria, Cyprus, and Sinai were not involved. (Cyprus was overrun by Crusaders and Turks and probably not in a position to enter into theological dialogue if they'd had the inclination to do so.)
Logged

Quote from: GabrieltheCelt
If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
Quote from: orthonorm
I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.
Irish Hermit
Kibernetski Kaludjer
Warned
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Posts: 10,991


Holy Father Patrick, pray for us


« Reply #64 on: January 13, 2012, 07:49:16 PM »


This criteria does not determine "greatness" or truth:
Quote
objectively consider the number of copies sold and/or number of times they are cited
and neither does popularity, or one's preference (we're far from perfection to judge).  Leave it to the Church to reveal the great ones of faith.

You are right, I think.  Who are our great theologians?  They are also our great Saints.  THey sre the ones whose great holiness and closenesss to God has made it possible for them to drink deeply of divine knowledge.    The Church recognises them and venerates their sanctity.
Logged
Shanghaiski
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 7,970


Holy Trinity Church of Gergeti, Georgia


« Reply #65 on: January 13, 2012, 07:50:55 PM »

Unless the theologian is dead, glorified, and lauded by the Church as a teacher of the faith, I greet him with the sound of one hand clapping, accompanied by crickets and the salmon of doubt.
Logged

Quote from: GabrieltheCelt
If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
Quote from: orthonorm
I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.
Justin Kissel
Formerly Asteriktos
Protospatharios
****************
Online Online

Posts: 29,875



« Reply #66 on: January 13, 2012, 07:51:04 PM »

They were great because of their erudition, creativity, produndity, and grasp of their respective theological traditions.

Fr. Kimel, I much enjoyed your post, though I wonder if many Orthodox would replace creativity with faithfulness to tradition (which is, I think, different than grasping their tradition).
« Last Edit: January 13, 2012, 07:51:30 PM by Asteriktos » Logged
Irish Hermit
Kibernetski Kaludjer
Warned
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Posts: 10,991


Holy Father Patrick, pray for us


« Reply #67 on: January 13, 2012, 08:07:57 PM »

The Three Holy Hierarchs

Do not rank us!  Do not judge one of us as greater than the others!

During the reign of the Emperor Alexius Comnenus (1081-1118), a controversy arose in Constantinople among men learned in Faith and zealous for virtue about the three holy Hierarchs and Fathers of the Church, Basil the Great, Gregory the Theologian and John Chrysostom. Some argued for Saint Basil above the other two because he was able, as none other, to explain the mysteries of the Faith, and rose to angelic rank by his virtues. Organizer of monastic life, leader of the entire Church in the struggle with heresy, austere and demanding shepherd as to Christian morals, in him there was nothing base or of the earth. Hence, said they, he was superior to Saint Chrysostom who was by nature more easily inclined to absolve sinners.

The partisans of Saint Chrysostom retorted that the illustrious Archbishop of Constantinople had been no less zealous than Saint Basil in combating vices, in bringing sinners to repentance and in raising up the whole people to the perfection of the Gospel. The golden-mouthed shepherd of matchless eloquence has watered the Church with a stream of homilies in which he interprets the divine word and shows its application in daily life with more accomplished mastery than the two other holy Doctors.

According to a third group, Saint Gregory the Theologian was to be preferred to the others by reason of the majesty, purity and profundity of his language. Possessing a sovereign mastery of all the wisdom and eloquence of ancient Greece, he had attained, they said to such a pitch in the contemplation of God that no one had been able to express the dogma of the Holy Trinity as perfectly as he.

With each faction setting up one of the Fathers against the other two in this way, the whole Christian people were soon caught up in the dispute, which far from promoting devotion to the Saints in the City, resulted in nothing but ill-feeling and endless argument. Then one night the three holy Hierarchs appeared in a dream to Saint John Mauropus, the Metropolitan of Euchaïta (5 Oct.), separately at first, then together and, speaking with a single voice, they said: “As you see, the three of us are with God and no discord or rivalry divides us. Each of us, according to the circumstances and according to the inspiration that he received from the Holy Spirit, wrote and taught what befits the salvation of mankind. There is not among us a first, a second or a third, and if you invoke one of us the other two are immediately present with him. Therefore, tell those who are quarrelling not to create divisions in the Church because of us, for when we were on earth we spared no effort to re-establish unity and concord in the world. You can conjoin our three commemorations in one feast and compose a service for it, inserting the hymns dedicated to each of us according to the skill and knowledge that God has given you. Then transmit it to the Christians with the command to celebrate it each year. If they honor us thus as being with and in God, we give them our word that we will intercede for their salvation in our common prayer.” At these words, the Saints were taken up into heaven in a boundless light while conversing with one another by name.

Saint John immediately assembled the people and informed them of this revelation. As he was respected by all for his virtue and admired for his powerful eloquence, the three parties made peace and every one urged him to lose no time in composing the service of the joint feast. With fine discernment, he selected 30 January as appropriate to the celebration, for it would set the seal to the month in which each of the three Hierarchs already had a separate commemoration (Saint Basil – January 1; Saint Gregory – January 25; Saint John (translation of relics) – January 27).

Go to http://www.goarch.org/special/threehierarchs/index_html



Logged
akimel
Fr Aidan
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: ROCOR (Western Rite)
Posts: 519



WWW
« Reply #68 on: January 14, 2012, 11:25:10 AM »

They were great because of their erudition, creativity, produndity, and grasp of their respective theological traditions.

Fr. Kimel, I much enjoyed your post, though I wonder if many Orthodox would replace creativity with faithfulness to tradition (which is, I think, different than grasping their tradition).

I would not substitute creativity for fidelity to the Tradition either; but there is a significant difference between fidelity to Tradition and reiteration of the Tradition.  I think many Orthodox today confuse the two.  As one becomes more acquainted with the theological tradition, the more one discovers that each of the great theologians of the Church was also exceptionally creative within the Tradition, often pushing the theological envelope as they wrestled with new and difficult questions.  St Athanasius immediately comes to mind.  We forget that his proposal of the homoousion was seen by many of his "traditional" contemporaries as a radical innovation, yet eventually the Church realized that this "innovation" provided the key to a faithful interpretation of the person of Christ. 

Orthodox theology was at a huge disadvantage during much of the 20th century, due in large part to Communist oppression.  When the Church is a violently oppressed minority, struggling for survival, perhaps systematic reiteration of what others have said is the best the Church can do, protecting and reinforcing the walls of the fortress, as it were.  But this is not theology in its most faithful and dynamic expression.  The Church cannot remain content to simply recite by rote the traditional formulations of the past. 
   
Logged

Agabus
The user formerly known as Agabus.
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Pan-American Colloquial Convert Hybrid Orthodoxy.
Jurisdiction: We are all uncanonical now.
Posts: 2,255



« Reply #69 on: January 14, 2012, 12:09:36 PM »

And as far as Fr Seraphim Rose, well, he ranks up there with Francis Schaeffer.   
Now you've incepted silly thoughts into my head of Frankie Schaffer writing a novel about his mother passing through the Toll Houses.
Logged

Blessed Nazarius practiced the ascetic life. His clothes were tattered. He wore his shoes without removing them for six years.

THE OPINIONS HERE MAY NOT REFLECT THE ACTUAL OR PERCEIVED ORTHODOX CHURCH
Irish Hermit
Kibernetski Kaludjer
Warned
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Posts: 10,991


Holy Father Patrick, pray for us


« Reply #70 on: January 14, 2012, 06:51:54 PM »

They were great because of their erudition, creativity, produndity, and grasp of their respective theological traditions.

Fr. Kimel, I much enjoyed your post, though I wonder if many Orthodox would replace creativity with faithfulness to tradition (which is, I think, different than grasping their tradition).

I would not substitute creativity for fidelity to the Tradition either; but there is a significant difference between fidelity to Tradition and reiteration of the Tradition.  I think many Orthodox today confuse the two.  As one becomes more acquainted with the theological tradition, the more one discovers that each of the great theologians of the Church was also exceptionally creative within the Tradition, often pushing the theological envelope as they wrestled with new and difficult questions.  St Athanasius immediately comes to mind.  We forget that his proposal of the homoousion was seen by many of his "traditional" contemporaries as a radical innovation, yet eventually the Church realized that this "innovation" provided the key to a faithful interpretation of the person of Christ. 

Orthodox theology was at a huge disadvantage during much of the 20th century, due in large part to Communist oppression.  When the Church is a violently oppressed minority, struggling for survival, perhaps systematic reiteration of what others have said is the best the Church can do, protecting and reinforcing the walls of the fortress, as it were.  But this is not theology in its most faithful and dynamic expression.  The Church cannot remain content to simply recite by rote the traditional formulations of the past.     

No?
Logged
BoredMeeting
Loving the Life of a Council Member
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic Christian
Jurisdiction: Serbian Orthodox/OCA
Posts: 721



« Reply #71 on: January 20, 2012, 02:47:02 PM »

And as far as Fr Seraphim Rose, well, he ranks up there with Francis Schaeffer.   
Now you've incepted silly thoughts into my head of Frankie Schaffer writing a novel about his mother passing through the Toll Houses.
Comedy Gold Quote of the Month!  Grin
Logged
Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 6,795



« Reply #72 on: February 07, 2012, 06:01:16 PM »

Quote
Father Deacon Brian Patrick Mitchell

Are you serious, Second Chance? Some of what he's espoused flies in the face of established, accepted Orthodox doctrinal and liturgical tradition, and he can get quite nasty and irrational when he's called out.

I have butted heads with him and I know what you are saying. Nonetheless, his work is informed and should be considered.

ADDED: On second thought, you are correct. The good Father Deacon has written one good book on politics and that's that. He is off my list for sure.
Logged

Michal: "SC, love you in this thread."
JamesRottnek
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Anglican
Jurisdiction: Episcopal Diocese of Arizona
Posts: 5,121


I am Bibleman; putting 'the' back in the Ukraine


« Reply #73 on: February 07, 2012, 06:52:41 PM »

Why is Frederica Matthews-Green on the list?  I am not opposed to her like some of our members have seemed to be.  I even enjoyed, quite a bit, the two books of hers that I have read.  However, has she really written much that would count as theology?
Logged

I know a secret about a former Supreme Court Justice.  Can you guess what it is?

The greatest tragedy in the world is when a cigarette ends.

American Spirits - the eco-friendly cigarette.

Preston Robert Kinney (September 8th, 1997-August 14, 2011
Justin Kissel
Formerly Asteriktos
Protospatharios
****************
Online Online

Posts: 29,875



« Reply #74 on: October 20, 2012, 11:34:27 PM »

Unless the theologian is dead, glorified, and lauded by the Church as a teacher of the faith, I greet him with the sound of one hand clapping, accompanied by crickets and the salmon of doubt.

Sounds smelly...
Logged
Shiny
Site Supporter
Moderated
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Groucho Marxist
Jurisdiction: Dahntahn Stoop Haus
Posts: 13,267


Paint It Red


« Reply #75 on: October 20, 2012, 11:45:51 PM »

Quote
Saint Iustin Popović

I look forward to his Dogmatic Theology finally being released!
This out yet?
Logged

“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”

– St. Ambrose of Milan
Justin Kissel
Formerly Asteriktos
Protospatharios
****************
Online Online

Posts: 29,875



« Reply #76 on: October 20, 2012, 11:47:17 PM »

As far as I know it is not out yet. At least I haven't heard anything; I also did a search on google for info a few months ago and came up empty.
Logged
Shiny
Site Supporter
Moderated
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Groucho Marxist
Jurisdiction: Dahntahn Stoop Haus
Posts: 13,267


Paint It Red


« Reply #77 on: October 20, 2012, 11:50:39 PM »

Dumb question, does he have anything in English?
Logged

“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”

– St. Ambrose of Milan
Justin Kissel
Formerly Asteriktos
Protospatharios
****************
Online Online

Posts: 29,875



« Reply #78 on: October 21, 2012, 12:00:11 AM »

The following titles have been released in English...

- The Orthodox Church and Ecumenism
- Orthodox Faith and Life in Christ
- Commentary on the Epistles of St. John the Theologian (Review)
- Man and God-Man (Review)
- The Struggle For Faith: A Treasury of Serbian Orthodox Spirituality (Vol. 3)
- The Struggle For Faith: A Treasury of Serbian Orthodox Spirituality (Vol. 4)

There are links to online excerpts at the wiki and orthodoxwiki articles.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2012, 12:00:53 AM by Asteriktos » Logged
Shanghaiski
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 7,970


Holy Trinity Church of Gergeti, Georgia


« Reply #79 on: October 21, 2012, 12:16:19 AM »

The best theologians never wrote anything and died in obscurity after years living lives of prayer and repentance. They know God by experience.
Logged

Quote from: GabrieltheCelt
If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
Quote from: orthonorm
I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.
Justin Kissel
Formerly Asteriktos
Protospatharios
****************
Online Online

Posts: 29,875



« Reply #80 on: October 21, 2012, 12:22:08 AM »

The best theologians never wrote anything and died in obscurity after years living lives of prayer and repentance. They know God by experience.

Thankfully lesser theologians like St. Paul, St. Luke and St. John Chrysostom wrote some stuff for those of us who need a bit of guidance, and this practice continues to this day Smiley
Logged
Gunnarr
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,753



« Reply #81 on: October 22, 2012, 10:34:30 AM »

Saint Iustin Popović

Saint John the Heyschast

Saint Silouan the Athonite

in no order
Logged

I am a demonic servant! Beware!
Ignatius II
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Posts: 73


« Reply #82 on: October 22, 2012, 08:44:00 PM »

 For me it is Metropolitan Anthony Bloom. he spoke simply yet carried a sound message that resonated truth.  he had such an incredibly interesting life. Of special interest would be Father Seraphim Rose.  He was kind of "out there" but I believe sincere and brought orthodoxy to a lot of people who would probaby not have had an interest otherwise.
Logged
MarkosC
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Faith: Patriarchate of Antioch
Jurisdiction: Greek/Melkite Catholic
Posts: 191


« Reply #83 on: October 23, 2012, 11:10:26 AM »

Such lists are inevitably personal and there is not real objective criteria one can draw.  There's no need for me to second any of the many worthy choices here, but I'd like to add a few:

One is Father Nicholas Afanasiev   He's also quite influential in reintroducing, especially to western Christian audiences, "patristic" understandings of the eucharist as communion and on ecclesiology.  I believe his book "The Church of the Holy Spirit" (recently translated and published by Notre Dame Press) is outstanding. 

I'd also mention some of the leaders of the 1960s-70s Athonite revival, in particular Geronda Vassilios Gondikakis of the Monastery of Iviron (I highly recommend "Hymn of Entry" from St. Vlad's and several others from Alexander press) as well as Geronda Aimilianos of Simonopetra (both of the volumes of his lectures "The Church at Prayer" and "The Way of the Spirit" are outstanding - and the latter was translated into English by an American monk who was a top-flight patristics scholar - though both are now I believe out of print). 
Logged

O Lord although I desired to blot out
with my tears the handwriting of my many sins
And for the rest of my life to please Thee
through sincere repentance
Yet doth the enemy lead me astray as he wareth
against my sould with his cunning

O Lord before I utterly perish do Thou save me!
celticfan1888
Production Operator - Chemtrusion
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholicism
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church of America
Posts: 3,026



« Reply #84 on: October 23, 2012, 11:29:41 AM »

Father John Romanides is certainly on my list.
Logged

Forgive my sins.
jah777
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Posts: 1,868


« Reply #85 on: October 23, 2012, 01:04:26 PM »

Metropolitan Hierotheos of Nafpaktos

Logged
jah777
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Posts: 1,868


« Reply #86 on: October 23, 2012, 01:09:37 PM »

The following titles have been released in English...

- The Orthodox Church and Ecumenism
- Orthodox Faith and Life in Christ
- Commentary on the Epistles of St. John the Theologian (Review)
- Man and God-Man (Review)
- The Struggle For Faith: A Treasury of Serbian Orthodox Spirituality (Vol. 3)
- The Struggle For Faith: A Treasury of Serbian Orthodox Spirituality (Vol. 4)

There are links to online excerpts at the wiki and orthodoxwiki articles.

St. Herman's Monastery is also working on a translation of the "Orthodox Dogmatics" series by St. Justin.  It will be interesting to see how the American audience responds to his chapter on the Particular Judgment, wherein he recounts the the patristic teaching concerning the soul's journey through the toll-houses after its separation from the body at the time of death.
Logged
sheenj
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Oriental Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Indian/Malankara Orthodox Syrian Church
Posts: 1,401


St. Gregorios of Parumala, pray for us...


« Reply #87 on: October 23, 2012, 01:47:23 PM »

Fr. V.C. Samuel and Metropolitan Paulose mor Gregorios of New Delhi.

Edit: I can't leave Fr. Matthew the Poor out of this discussion.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2012, 01:48:24 PM by sheenj » Logged
deacon Mikias(micah)
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Faith: Ethiopian Orthodox tewahdo church
Jurisdiction: Oriental Orthodox
Posts: 22


Pray for us O you Saints


« Reply #88 on: October 27, 2012, 09:07:45 AM »

Fr. Thomas Hopko ,........Fr. John Meyendorff ........Fr. Georges Florovesky....Metropolitan Kalistos Ware....are the bests!
Logged
Michael36
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Romanian Episcopate (OCA)
Posts: 50


« Reply #89 on: November 05, 2012, 01:31:16 AM »

As far as dogmatic theology:
Metropolitan Kallistos Ware
Metropolitan Hierotheos Vlachos
St. Nikolai Velmirovic*
Fr. Michael Pomazansky
Fr. Tom Hopko (when he isn't going off on his theologuemen)
Fr. Alexander Schmemann
St. Silouan the Athonite**

As far as theology that inspires one to live the Orthodox life:
Elder Porphyrios
Elder Paisios
Fr. Seraphim Rose
St. John of Shanghai and San Francisco***
Elder Sophrony of Essex (he literally puts into words the experience of prayer. He helped me understand my own prayer. Seriously, go read "We Shall See Him As He Is")

*Belongs on both lists
**Unites both lists
***I find his life more important than his writings, but even still, his writings on the "Orthodox Veneration of the Theotokos" made me "get it" when I was a convert
Logged
Tags:
Pages: « 1 2 3 »  All   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.152 seconds with 71 queries.