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Author Topic: Assyrian boy killed for Christ in Iraq  (Read 6450 times) Average Rating: 0
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« on: October 30, 2006, 09:53:16 PM »

14 Year Old Assyrian Boy Decapitated By Muslim Group

(AINA) -- According to the Assyrian website ankawa.com, a 14 year old Christian Assyrian boy, Ayad Tariq, from Baqouba, Iraq was decapitated at his work place on October 21.

Ayad Tariq was working his 12 hour shift, maintaining an electric generator, when a group of disguised Muslim insurgents walked in at the beginning of his shift shortly after 6 a.m. and asked him for his ID.

According to another employee who witnessed the events, and who hid when he saw the insurgents approach, the insurgents questioned Ayad after seeing that his ID stated "Christian", asking if he was truly a "Christian sinner." Ayad replied "yes, I am Christian but I am not a sinner." The insurgents quickly said this is a "dirty Christian sinner!" Then they proceeded to each hold one limb, shouting "Allahu akbar! Allahu akbar!" while beheading the boy.

Translated from Arabic by AINA

http://www.aina.org/news/20061029141418.htm
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« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2006, 11:00:53 PM »

14 Year Old Assyrian Boy Decapitated By Muslim Group...

We seem to hear about similar events on nearly a weekly basis anymore, this is the way of the Mohammedians; furthermore, it should be noted they are not merely a threat to Christians but to all civilized peoples. This is yet more evidence for the overwhelming case that it has become time to solve the Islamic problem.

Of course I'm sure there are a handful of Islamic supporters on here who would disagree with me. Wink
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« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2006, 12:25:50 AM »

Well, I have always been critical of radical Islam and of those Muslims who look the other way at it, but I don't think grouping all Muslims with those who kill in the name of Islam is a fair or fortuitous approach. There is no "final solution" to the "Islamic problem," as you call it, when you are targeting over a billion people. The solution will ultimately require examination and action on the part of Muslims themselves. Islam will not go away and continues to grow, and it will not be beaten into submission.

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« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2006, 12:34:14 AM »

Well, I have always been critical of radical Islam and of those Muslims who look the other way at it, but I don't think grouping all Muslims with those who kill in the name of Islam is a fair or fortuitous approach.

Polls of Muslim communities in Europe show that there is overwhelming admiration for the tactics of suicide bombers and there is a strong opinion that the deeds Osama Bin Laden are at least excusable if not downright praiseworthy. Mosques everywhere are being radicalized, there are few entirely spotless mosques left anymore; this was the subject of a Senate report in the U.S. a few months ago. The popular press of the Muslim world regularly perpetuates slander of Jews.

Even if the average Muslim isn't holding a gun, he's still giving tacit consent at the least, and often full ideological support, to those who seek to kill.

Furthermore, even if the average Muslim doesn't kill, he still mistreats his wife and children and worships a false god. Don't you think something should be done about that?
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« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2006, 01:50:58 AM »

Culver,

I'm not a Muslim apologist, but it's in God's hands. It's not our job to force Muslims to stop worshipping a false god. And it wouldn't be right to declare war on all of Islam, unless you want all of Islam to unite under the jihadists. Then we will have the war of civilizations the extremists want. IMO, it's not what God wants.

As Christians, we have to dialogue with Muslims, and dialogue critically, as Benedict proposed in his Regensburg speech. We also have to renew the (post?) Christian West if we are to speak with more authority. As nations, we have to defend ourselves from attack, but not do so indiscriminately.
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« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2006, 08:11:12 AM »

Well, I have always been critical of radical Islam and of those Muslims who look the other way at it, but I don't think grouping all Muslims with those who kill in the name of Islam is a fair or fortuitous approach.

I knew I'd upset an Islamophile or two, I usually do...though you're being a somewhat better sport than the last chap Wink

Quote
There is no "final solution" to the "Islamic problem," as you call it, when you are targeting over a billion people. The solution will ultimately require examination and action on the part of Muslims themselves. Islam will not go away and continues to grow, and it will not be beaten into submission.

Oh, there are solutions, we could sove 95% of the problem by just pressing a few buttons (heck, we could solve ALL the world's problems with just the pressing of a few buttons Wink); of course, nuclear holocaust, as fun as it is to talk about, is not the solution I have previously suggested on this issue. The solution I have long advocated consists of occupation, destruction of culture, re-education of the populace, and education of the children in state institutions away from the influence of their parents. Call it a 50 year plan, unfortunately I believe the problem with my plan is that the United States is too week to carry it out, of course if we could form good alliances with Russian and China who know how to take the gloves off, such a plan may have a higher chance for success. But I believe Islam can be beaten into submission by a careful mixture of military force and propaganda; heck, this same strategy worked against the Christians who used to live in the region and converted to Islam, there is no reason to assume that the current generation is any more resilient than their ancestors.

I'm not a Muslim apologist, but it's in God's hands.

You could have fooled me.

Quote
It's not our job to force Muslims to stop worshipping a false god. And it wouldn't be right to declare war on all of Islam, unless you want all of Islam to unite under the jihadists. Then we will have the war of civilizations the extremists want. IMO, it's not what God wants.

I would agree that we need not convert Moslems to Christianity, I would be happy if they were Hindus, Buddhists, Jews, Atheists, or even Pagans; though it would be ideal that they became Christian. CRCulver and I have disagreed on similar issues before though; however the essence of what he said is true, not only are the Moslems infidels, their very existance is a threat to civilization. Furthermore, if we dont turn this into a Christian Crusade we may be able to enlist the help of India and China whose large populations would make them invaluable allies in a long term occupation.
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« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2006, 11:33:04 AM »

It's not our job to force Muslims to stop worshipping a false god.
I think we need to work harder at stoping them from murdering people.

Unfortunately in places such as Kosovo, we seem intent on helping them kill more Christians.
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« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2006, 02:13:18 PM »

We seem to hear about similar events on nearly a weekly basis anymore, this is the way of the Mohammedians; furthermore, it should be noted they are not merely a threat to Christians but to all civilized peoples. This is yet more evidence for the overwhelming case that it has become time to solve the Islamic problem.

Of course I'm sure there are a handful of Islamic supporters on here who would disagree with me. Wink

What exactly is the "Islamic problem"??  What is your solution to the "Islamic problem"??  Shall we sterilize all Islamic women??  Should we advocate heavy taxes on mosques and Islamic organizations??  Or maybe these "Mohammedans" (you couldn't even spell the derogatory term right!) should be segregated??

Yup, I'm sure their hatred for the West will certainly decrease after all that.

And another thing.  Nearly 50,000 Iraqi civilians have died since the military intervention there.  Some were Christian, some Muslim, some Kurds, and so on.  They all have two things in common - they were all human beings and they were all Iraqi.

They had siblings, parents, spouses, children and other family members.  They lived life.

As much as religion was a mitigating factor in this incident and others, the bottom line is: a human life was lost through violent means, regardless of his spiritual beliefs, that is a tragedy.  Just because he was Christian, does not make it any more or less a tragedy.  A young life was cut short.

Rastaman
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« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2006, 02:55:21 PM »

What exactly is the "Islamic problem"??  What is your solution to the "Islamic problem"??  Shall we sterilize all Islamic women??  Should we advocate heavy taxes on mosques and Islamic organizations??  Or maybe these "Mohammedans" (you couldn't even spell the derogatory term right!) should be segregated??

Taxation would work, as would bulldozing mosques and imprisoning religious leaders. It worked with the Arians, and that heresy was pretty well stamped out for a thousand years.

Quote
As much as religion was a mitigating factor in this incident and others, the bottom line is: a human life was lost through violent means, regardless of his spiritual beliefs, that is a tragedy.  Just because he was Christian, does not make it any more or less a tragedy.  A young life was cut short.

The Church teaches that people who die for the sake of Christ are glorified in the afterlife. Think of the crowns descending on the 40 martyrs of Sebastopol. Obviously Christian martyrdom is something different than the ordinary murder.
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« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2006, 04:25:43 PM »

Islam is a plague, a scourge upon all mankind. <----period. Sorry if that offends "good" Muslims, but they tehmselves cannot define (or won't) what a good Muslim is.

First thing to do in facing this disease is for the rest of the world - Christian and non- Christian - to do is stop sugar-coating their message, cease equating their teaching as revealed by their actions (today and historically) with a God-inspired religion, and tell the unwashed truth about them.
Christianity gets bashed regularly...Muslims are oppressed, if one reads the news media and our own governments' positions. We must stop this and start telling it like it is.
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« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2006, 05:23:33 PM »

Muslims are oppressed, if one reads the news media and our own governments' positions.
Not the Australian Government or Media:

http://www.news24.com/News24/World/News/0,,2-10-1462_2021406,00.html

http://www.abc.net.au/ra/news/stories/s1777203.htm

http://www.thestandard.com.hk/news_detail.asp?pp_cat=17&art_id=30729&sid=10643095&con_type=1
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« Reply #11 on: October 31, 2006, 05:34:40 PM »

Well...I am sorry but I disagree.

If we are talking about scourges on the earth, there is a list.  But radical Islam is pretty far down.

How about famine, illiteracy, child prostitution, prostitution, drug use, alcoholism, gambling addiction, pornography, war...ignorance.

If Muslims wish to worship differently than me, they are free to do so.  If such worship is contrary to the ways of God, then Muslims run the risk of eternal damnation.  That is their choice. Soldiers didn't die in both World Wars, Korea, Afghanistan, and Iraq so the idea of freedom is applied to some narrow cross-section of society.

In fact, while you guys are organizing the bulldozers on the mosques, why don't you add the synagogues, Roman Catholic cathedrals, Protestant churches, Anabaptist communes, Wiccan temples, Buddhist monasteries, and abortionist clinics.

Why not instead of blasting Muslims for spousal abuse, you add the polygamist fundamentalist "Mormons" to the list, or the white supremacist Protestants, or what about the atheist communists.

If HIM Haile Selassie is according to everyone here such a glowing example of an Orthodox Christian (and not God), maybe you should start reading His words and following His example:

"Therefore, it has become the noble responsibility of Christians, and peoples of other faiths and their leaders throughout the world, to pray and to work hard for the preservation of world peace."

"But we don't consider our religion alone valid and have granted the people the freedom to observe any religion they please."

"Since this is so, do not reward evil for evil, do not commit any act of cruelty like those which the enemy committed against us."

"No one should question the faith of others, for no human being can judge the ways of God."

Be Blessed,
Rastaman

P.S.  Thanks for showing me that my decision to reject Rastafari for Orthodoxy was correct.  Thanks for showing me that "to love your neighbor as yourself is more important than all burnt offerings and sacrifices."  Thanks for showing me that "God is Love."

P.P.S.  Ziggy Marley's new single "Love is My Religion" might teach y'all a few things.



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« Reply #12 on: October 31, 2006, 05:44:38 PM »

Your opinion is noted. I reject it.

Your "P.S." says it all...
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« Reply #13 on: October 31, 2006, 05:49:11 PM »

Then I hope you caught the sarcasm in my postscript.

Rastaman
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« Reply #14 on: October 31, 2006, 05:56:31 PM »

 Roll Eyes
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« Reply #15 on: October 31, 2006, 06:10:02 PM »

it has become time to solve the Islamic problem.

Of course I'm sure there are a handful of Islamic supporters on here who would disagree with me. Wink

GiC,
One does not necessarily have to be an "Islamophile" or "Islamic supporter" to reject your notion of the necessity to "solve the Islamic problem." Another possibility is that those who reject this notion may do so because they are rejecting the notion of fascist-type "solutions" to human beings as "problems". And it's easy to see why they may do so when you couch your suggestions in terms reminiscent of the policies which led to the "Endlösung der Judenfrage"
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« Reply #16 on: October 31, 2006, 06:14:10 PM »

Come on, George, you know GiC and his love of shock-posting!
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« Reply #17 on: October 31, 2006, 06:19:52 PM »

Come on, George, you know GiC and his love of shock-posting!
I sure do.
And I'm making sure that others are aware of it also. Wink
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« Reply #18 on: October 31, 2006, 06:46:46 PM »


Well, the Australian media, at least, has the common decency to object when a moslem cleric supports the rape of Australian women. However, these same objections tend not to be raised in regard to the constant abuse inflicted upon women in the day to day lives and society of the mohammedans. Do we really have to wait this long before we speak up? Furthermore, I read in one of your articles that the leader of this rape gang had his sentence reduced to 18 years...is that a joke or what? I was thinking the 55 years was too short.

GiC,
One does not necessarily have to be an "Islamophile" or "Islamic supporter" to reject your notion of the necessity to "solve the Islamic problem." Another possibility is that those who reject this notion may do so because they are rejecting the notion of fascist-type "solutions" to human beings as "problems". And it's easy to see why they may do so when you couch your suggestions in terms reminiscent of the policies which led to the "Endlösung der Judenfrage"

Oh, you ascribe too much to the historical context of certain words. Plus, the words the Nazis used were in German, not English. And... Oh, what the heck, it makes things more fun when I start off like that. Plus, someone who becomes too upset in the context of a debate is comparable to a drunk in a fight. Wink The art of rhetoric isn't entirely about the content of your arguments, the style is likewise important.
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« Reply #19 on: October 31, 2006, 06:49:12 PM »

Well...I am sorry but I disagree.

If we are talking about scourges on the earth, there is a list.  But radical Islam is pretty far down.

How about famine, illiteracy, child prostitution, prostitution, drug use, alcoholism, gambling addiction, pornography, war...ignorance.

Quite frankly, I would list Islam as a greater threat than all those things you listed combined.
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« Reply #20 on: November 01, 2006, 02:18:54 AM »

Just because he was Christian, does not make it any more or less a tragedy. 
Rastaman

Its a tragedy just because he was killed just because he was a Christian. 
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« Reply #21 on: November 01, 2006, 06:12:07 AM »

Oh, what the heck, it makes things more fun when I start off like that. Plus, someone who becomes too upset in the context of a debate is comparable to a drunk in a fight. Wink The art of rhetoric isn't entirely about the content of your arguments, the style is likewise important.
I know. I've seen you use this technique many a time. I guess I'm just trying to make it a little more "interesting" for you by alerting others to some of your techniques. I know how you love a challenge. Wink
You would be an excellent teacher of rhetoric and the art of polemics if you channelled some of that evil genius to good. Wink I for one would love to learn more about these arts from you. I just don't want someone to be an unsuspecting victim of it for me to learn (unless, of course, I think they deserve it Cheesy )
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« Reply #22 on: November 01, 2006, 06:56:21 AM »

Its a tragedy just because he was killed just because he was a Christian. 

Death is not a tragedy since Christ overcame it.  Now the only tragedy is to die in faithlessness and sin.  This young Assyrian Christian has great faith in God, and so was granted Grace to courageously choose a martyrs death.  I believe his soul must be quite beautiful and pleasing to the Lord, a true servant of Christ, willing to die for Love of His name at the hands of His enemies.  Praise be to God!  Rejoice for the Lord is with young Ayad Tariq!

Recently an Oriental Orthodox priest was also martyred, and in that thread there was nothing but expressions of joy and rememberance.  Yet for this young man not a single person seems to have even one word for his grace-filled act.  Instead we get a bunch of uninteresting and unenlightening trash talk about Islam.  Well it seems to me that trash belongs in the trash heap, not strewn about the grave of a true martyr for Christ.  The Spirit of God moves even now upon the face of the waters.

In Christ,
Brian
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« Reply #23 on: November 01, 2006, 08:06:49 AM »

I know. I've seen you use this technique many a time. I guess I'm just trying to make it a little more "interesting" for you by alerting others to some of your techniques. I know how you love a challenge. Wink
You would be an excellent teacher of rhetoric and the art of polemics if you channelled some of that evil genius to good. Wink I for one would love to learn more about these arts from you. I just don't want someone to be an unsuspecting victim of it for me to learn (unless, of course, I think they deserve it Cheesy )

I know I've used this technique time and time again...but not everyone is a quick as you, it amazes me how many people have been on this site as long as I have and yet will still fall for it. But I guess that's the strength to an appeal to emotion, especially an appeal to a negative emotion; people's reason and better judgement often fall by the wayside, and therein lies the power of such a technique. But if needs be, I can debate in the traditional manner, it's simply not nearly as fun Grin
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« Reply #24 on: November 01, 2006, 09:33:59 AM »

You would be an excellent teacher of rhetoric and the art of polemics if you channelled some of that evil genius to good. Wink I for one would love to learn more about these arts from you.

Ozgeorge, I urge you to fight the temptation to learn the dark art of GiC-authored rhetoric.

Sith-style rhetoric will inevitably lead to destruction; instead, learn Jedi-rhetoric so that Darth GiC may be countered at every opportunity. Wink
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« Reply #25 on: November 01, 2006, 09:56:07 AM »

Ozgeorge, I urge you to fight the temptation to learn the dark art of GiC-authored rhetoric.

Sith-style rhetoric will inevitably lead to destruction; instead, learn Jedi-rhetoric so that Darth GiC may be countered at every opportunity. Wink

Fine, Ozgeorge can avoid the dark side all he likes.  I'll become Darth GiC's apprentice. Cheesy
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« Reply #26 on: November 01, 2006, 10:07:27 AM »

So does this mean some largely inactive poster from the bloodline of GiC (i.e. Holy Cross) is going to rise up to defeat his evil?  Is this a job for.... Mallet (FatGreek86)?
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« Reply #27 on: November 01, 2006, 02:16:28 PM »

What exactly is the "Islamic problem"??  What is your solution to the "Islamic problem"??  Shall we sterilize all Islamic women??  Should we advocate heavy taxes on mosques and Islamic organizations??  Or maybe these "Mohammedans" (you couldn't even spell the derogatory term right!) should be segregated??

Yup, I'm sure their hatred for the West will certainly decrease after all that.

And another thing.  Nearly 50,000 Iraqi civilians have died since the military intervention there.  Some were Christian, some Muslim, some Kurds, and so on.  They all have two things in common - they were all human beings and they were all Iraqi.

They had siblings, parents, spouses, children and other family members.  They lived life.

As much as religion was a mitigating factor in this incident and others, the bottom line is: a human life was lost through violent means, regardless of his spiritual beliefs, that is a tragedy.  Just because he was Christian, does not make it any more or less a tragedy.  A young life was cut short.

Rastaman

Rastaman,

    I agree with you and I think the above comments really make me question what planet people are living on who think they can invade societies, remake them, bulldoze mosques etc as well as call themselves Christians or Orthodox Christians.. It is a complete loss of reality without  commenting on the loss of Christian charity reflected in these comments which seem to serve an ideology more then giving our good example for Muslims to know Christianity. It is plainly "strange" LOL
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« Reply #28 on: November 01, 2006, 03:08:28 PM »

I agree with you and I think the above comments really make me question what planet people are living on who think they can invade societies, remake them, bulldoze mosques etc as well as call themselves Christians or Orthodox Christians.

If it worked with the Arians, why wouldn't it work with Muslims? And if the Theotokos communicated God's pardon to St Nicholas for punching Arius in the face, don't you think that just bulldozing a building is a much less violent act?
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« Reply #29 on: November 01, 2006, 04:23:12 PM »

First of all, the Arian heresy still exists today.  Granted it is a less pervasive influence, but it is still there.  There are Arian bodies that today portray themselves as the One Holy Apostolic Church.  Insert violent outburst of rage here.

I guess maybe my point is not being made clear.  Two wrongs do not make a right.  Kill them with kindness.  "Hatred they return for our love, telling us of their God above" - Bob Marley

It is quite obvious that Ahmadinejad and co. are a clear and present danger to society.

Vlad the Impaler was a Christian (first Orthodox then Roman Catholic) ruler in Eastern Europe.  In fact, he even went to battle against Ottoman Turkish Muslims. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vlad_the_Impaler

He is also alleged to commit human atrocities of an undeniable savage and brutal nature.

Does that mean that every Christian should be tarred with the same brush??

Should the reality of Christian charity and love be replaced by the "sight of 20,000 impaled corpses"??

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« Reply #30 on: November 01, 2006, 04:25:21 PM »

At least, under Saddam, Christians were protected by the government.
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« Reply #31 on: November 01, 2006, 04:32:56 PM »

Yes I could see how being protected by a person who considers himself the prophesized Mahdi of the Islamic faith is such a great thing.

Especially given the current opinion of Islam by many Christians.

Would you like to ask the Kurds or the Shia Muslims how it feels to be "protected" by Saddam Hussein??

Seriously, you guys go from declaring holy war on Muslims using bulldozers, to lauding the actions of one of the most authoritarian Islamic dictators in history. (Yes I know M777's opinions are not held by any...many others lol).

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« Reply #32 on: November 01, 2006, 04:35:53 PM »

If it worked with the Arians, why wouldn't it work with Muslims? And if the Theotokos communicated God's pardon to St Nicholas for punching Arius in the face, don't you think that just bulldozing a building is a much less violent act?

I don't think it is Christian or moral to propose such a thing.  There is individual conscience in the modern world and we do not operate in the same way as the 3rd, 5th, or 16th century and frankly, i am glad we don't!
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« Reply #33 on: November 01, 2006, 04:37:45 PM »

Saddam, as a secular Muslim, forbid Islamic radicalism in his country. It wasn't until after our invasion that Iraq became a home for Islamic militants. It is obvious that he was a tyrant, who killed many of his own people, but at least Christians were safer in Iraq than they are now.

Peace.
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« Reply #34 on: November 01, 2006, 04:38:51 PM »


Seriously, you guys go from declaring holy war on Muslims using bulldozers, to lauding the actions of one of the most authoritarian Islamic dictators in history. (Yes I know M777's opinions are not held by any...many others lol).

Rastaman

 well, Saddam was actually a secularist who used Islam for his own purpose as indeed many Christian rulers have done in the past.
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« Reply #35 on: November 01, 2006, 04:40:45 PM »

Vlad the Impaler was a Christian (first Orthodox then Roman Catholic) ruler in Eastern Europe.  In fact, he even went to battle against Ottoman Turkish Muslims. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vlad_the_Impaler

He is also alleged to commit human atrocities of an undeniable savage and brutal nature.

He did enough good (i.e. Killing Moslems) to make up for any of his anit-social behaviours.

Quote
Should the reality of Christian charity and love be replaced by the "sight of 20,000 impaled corpses"??

Provided those are Moslem corpses (as they were in the case of Vlad III), then I really don't see any problems with that. Frankly, Vlad III was the right man at the right time and was central in stemming the tide of the Ottoman invasion; I have no objections to his conduct in regard to the Turks.
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« Reply #36 on: November 01, 2006, 04:42:19 PM »

He did enough good (i.e. Killing Moslems) to make up for any of his anit-social behaviours.

Is killing Muslims what Jesus would do? Heretics are not evil, they are just people who lack knowledge.

Peace.
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« Reply #37 on: November 01, 2006, 04:42:58 PM »

We wasted a good opportunity with Saddam. While I agree we did right in keeping him out of Kuwait (which is relatively secularized for the Islamic world, I at least have hope for that country); the second gulf war was stupid, we should have befriended Saddam, armed him, and used him to neutralize the Islamic fundamentalists in Syria, Iran, and Sauid Arabia.
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« Reply #38 on: November 01, 2006, 04:45:04 PM »

First of all, the Arian heresy still exists today.  Granted it is a less pervasive influence, but it is still there.  There are Arian bodies that today portray themselves as the One Holy Apostolic Church.  Insert violent outburst of rage here.

Unitarianism, the revival of the Arian heresy, sprung up during the Protestant Reformation in the West, where the rulers of the time dropped the ball. The heresy was dead for a good long time.

Quote
Vlad the Impaler was a Christian (first Orthodox then Roman Catholic) ruler in Eastern Europe.  In fact, he even went to battle against Ottoman Turkish Muslims. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vlad_the_Impaler He is also alleged to commit human atrocities of an undeniable savage and brutal nature. Does that mean that every Christian should be tarred with the same brush?? Should the reality of Christian charity and love be replaced by the "sight of 20,000 impaled corpses"??

St Stephen the Great (Stephen III of Moldavia) slew Turks in much the same fashion, and was awarded the title "Athlete of Christ" and glorified as a saint for his defence of his people from the Turks.

Christianity seeks to give the world peace, but the Christian State is not pacifist. Rulers have a responsibilty to deliver their people from all that is ungodly.
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« Reply #39 on: November 01, 2006, 04:49:46 PM »

Is killing Muslims what Jesus would do? Heretics are not evil, they are just people who lack knowledge.

Peace.

No. Jesus just throws them in hell after we get done with them. Wink
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« Reply #40 on: November 01, 2006, 04:55:21 PM »

Hypocrites are hypocrites...no matter whether they claim to worship Jah, Allah, YVH, or just call him God.

It is written in the Bible how they shall be dealt with by God.  I am a mere mortal sinner, it is not my place to judge another.

I pray for this young boy, and pray for the souls of all others who ascend to be with the Father.

"We must become members of a new race, overcoming petty prejudice, owing our ultimate allegiance not to nations, but to our fellow men within the human community." - HIM Haile Selassie

Edit:  The USA funded Saddam Husein way back in the 50s when the then Iraqi gov sentenced him to death in absentia.  The USA also helped bin Laden against Soviet forces in Afghanistan.  The USA dropped the ball with them both.

Edit 2: Wiki "Arian Catholicism"

Edit 3: There is defending your people and there is atrocities commited against pregnant women.  One can be considered "Christian" the other decidely less so

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« Reply #41 on: November 01, 2006, 05:01:26 PM »

Edit 3: There is defending your people and there is atrocities commited against pregnant women.  One can be considered "Christian" the other decidely less so

Last I checked, getting pregnant doesn't alleviate one of their social responsibilities. Many of these women were as supportive of Islamic culture as the soldiers on the front lines. There are no civilians in war, there may be some neutral persons, but they are few and far between; even if one does not contribute in a direct military role they may be acting in a supporting role by offering either logistical or moral support. I'm guessing you haven't read Clausewitz?
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« Reply #42 on: November 01, 2006, 05:03:25 PM »

Edit 2: Wiki "Arian Catholicism"

Your link to an article about some recently founded kooky independent Catholic community does not mean that Arianism wasn't eradicated for a thousand years or so.
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« Reply #43 on: November 01, 2006, 06:01:59 PM »

Last I checked, getting pregnant doesn't alleviate one of their social responsibilities. Many of these women were as supportive of Islamic culture as the soldiers on the front lines. There are no civilians in war, there may be some neutral persons, but they are few and far between; even if one does not contribute in a direct military role they may be acting in a supporting role by offering either logistical or moral support. I'm guessing you haven't read Clausewitz?

It would be pretty hard to argue that Old Vlad here was at war with his own people, with his housekeeper, with his boyars.

Not that you mean it this way, your arguements seem remarkable similar to how a Nazo would justify the Holocaust.  The fact remains that in an age of feudalism, the lord was meant to be just that to his people; their protector.

Now wars against foreign enemies is one thing, but the planned extermination (read genocide) of your own people, merely to hold onto power, is WRONG.

How can you even begin justify execution based in the fact that someone disagrees with your religion.  Mass murder is just that. Mass. Murder.

My point with Arian Catholicism is that quite simply Arianism and other heresies are still present.  Islam will continue to exist, hate it or love it.  Muslims are convinced that what they believe is correct.  Just as Orthodox believe the same.  And Protestants, and Roman Catholics.

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« Reply #44 on: November 01, 2006, 06:27:43 PM »

your arguements seem remarkable similar to how a Nazo would justify the Holocaust. 
Ah, the penny drops!
See: http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,10056.msg136886.html#msg136886 and the posts following.

How can you even begin justify execution based in the fact that someone disagrees with your religion.  Mass murder is just that. Mass. Murder.
Which brings up another of GiC's techniques employed here. If you read his posts carefully, he has never advocated anything other than  "mass re-education". Very skillfully, by employing wording similar to the Nazi "Final Solution", he has given you the impression that he supports it, but if you actually read his posts, he has never supported the idea of mass murder.

Fairly warned be thee says I.
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« Reply #45 on: November 01, 2006, 06:36:34 PM »

Ah, the penny drops!
See: http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,10056.msg136886.html#msg136886 and the posts following.
Which brings up another of GiC's techniques employed here. If you read his posts carefully, he has never advocated anything other than  "mass re-education". Very skillfully, by employing wording similar to the Nazi "Final Solution", he has given you the impression that he supports it, but if you actually read his posts, he has never supported the idea of mass murder.

Fairly warned be thee says I.

That's not fair, you already warned everyone on this thread once Wink
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« Reply #46 on: November 01, 2006, 07:17:50 PM »

Yes, yes I totally grasp the technique used by GiC.

I must admit he does turn it into a bit of an art.

That said, I won't change a single response of mine.

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« Reply #47 on: November 03, 2006, 03:13:51 AM »

No. Jesus just throws them in hell after we get done with them. Wink

In the Gospels, Jesus teaches that we will be judged according to what we knew, and how we acted on that knowledge. People who've never been given a real opportunity to consider the Christian faith aren't going to hell for it.

Peace.
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« Reply #48 on: November 03, 2006, 08:00:18 AM »

In the Gospels, Jesus teaches that we will be judged according to what we knew, and how we acted on that knowledge. People who've never been given a real opportunity to consider the Christian faith aren't going to hell for it.

Peace.

Oh, I dont think they'll be condemned for merely their religion, but rather for maintaining an oppressive and archaic value system in spite of the fact that the light of western civilzation shines brightly all around them. We have offered them enlightenment and they have knowingly insisted on barbarism with no better excuse than that their heathen religion tells them to do so, and for that they will be held responsible.
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« Reply #49 on: November 05, 2006, 06:58:50 AM »

Oh, I dont think they'll be condemned for merely their religion, but rather for maintaining an oppressive and archaic value system in spite of the fact that the light of western civilzation shines brightly all around them. We have offered them enlightenment and they have knowingly insisted on barbarism with no better excuse than that their heathen religion tells them to do so, and for that they will be held responsible.

I think we could also apply this to many of us in the post-Christian West. Need we bulldoze nightclubs, porn shops, cinemas, and sports stadiums?

We don't speak with much authority to Muslims because our own culture is increasingly secular and decadent.
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« Reply #50 on: November 05, 2006, 02:00:30 PM »

I think we could also apply this to many of us in the post-Christian West. Need we bulldoze nightclubs, porn shops, cinemas, and sports stadiums?

We don't speak with much authority to Muslims because our own culture is increasingly secular and decadent.

I have long presented secularism as a cure for Islam. Indifference is a powerful tool, if replaced the Mosques with 'nightclubs, porn shops, cinemas, and sports stadiums' we would be making substantial progress. Though I would love to see the conversion of the infidels to Christianity, unlike some others here that is not my primary goal or concern in relation to the Moslems, I believe our first priority should be to eradicate Islam, by whatever means necessary, and go from there. Atheism, while sorely lacking when compared to Christianity, is a drastic improvement over Islam.
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« Reply #51 on: November 05, 2006, 05:50:38 PM »

Atheism, while sorely lacking when compared to Christianity, is a drastic improvement over Islam.

Now, that's a little extreme. At least Muslims believe in the God of Abraham, and not all Muslims are violent in their faith.

Peace.
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« Reply #52 on: November 05, 2006, 06:00:22 PM »

[A]nd not all Muslims are violent in their faith.

Perhaps, but that is because said Muslims are peaceful people.  The fact they are peaceful individuals doesn't change the fact that Islam is a violent religion and one that's gleeful when it comes to shedding Christian blood.
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« Reply #53 on: November 05, 2006, 06:01:53 PM »

Now, that's a little extreme. At least Muslims believe in the God of Abraham, and not all Muslims are violent in their faith.

Peace.

Sort of..."If one righteous man is found..."? Huh?
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