Author Topic: The OO , EO and Catholic common saint  (Read 2754 times)

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Offline Macarius

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The OO , EO and Catholic common saint
« on: October 26, 2006, 01:50:00 PM »

 Do you think who is the most common saint between the Oreintal Orthodox , Eastern Orthodox and Catholic , sure the Theotokos is the first but who else ?

 in my opinion i think he is Saint Athanasius the Alexandrian Patriarchate
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Offline BoredMeeting

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Re: The OO , EO and Catholic common saint
« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2006, 02:29:33 PM »
It's a difficult question (how does one define the measure?) but wouldn't Stephen be the first beyond the Theotokos and the Apostles? Well, I guess that just means he's the first martyr. Perhaps Saint Photini?
« Last Edit: October 26, 2006, 02:31:05 PM by BoredMeeting »

Offline FrChris

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Re: The OO , EO and Catholic common saint
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2006, 02:47:06 PM »
St. John the Forerunner, I'd think, would also be a strong contender...

St. Mark?

St. John the Theologian?
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Offline dantxny

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Re: The OO , EO and Catholic common saint
« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2006, 02:55:32 PM »
I'd also suggest Saint Anthony the Great.

Although, I'd have to agree with Father Chris on it being St. John the Theologian and St. John the Forerunner.
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Offline Chacci

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Re: The OO , EO and Catholic common saint
« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2006, 03:43:27 PM »
The four gospel writers - Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John?

Offline Αριστοκλής

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Re: The OO , EO and Catholic common saint
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2006, 05:02:12 PM »
St. Stephanos, the First Martyr?
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Offline Ebor

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Re: The OO , EO and Catholic common saint
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2006, 05:03:35 PM »
The Four Gospel writers, St. Mary the Virgin and what about St. Paul?

Ebor
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Offline BoredMeeting

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Re: The OO , EO and Catholic common saint
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2006, 05:07:24 PM »
I guess St. John the Forerunner, the Apostles, the four Evangelists, and the Saint referenced in the Gospels (Photini, Mary, Lazarus, etc.) should all qualify.

I thought trying to narrow it down to one would be difficult. There are just too many.

Offline Dimitrius

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Re: The OO , EO and Catholic common saint
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2006, 05:29:54 PM »
Yes to all the above, especially those that are mentioned in the New Testament. However, the most famous saint outside the NT has to be the ubiquitous Saint George, the Prince of Martyrs.

« Last Edit: October 26, 2006, 06:11:19 PM by Dimitrius »

Offline Αριστοκλής

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Re: The OO , EO and Catholic common saint
« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2006, 05:34:51 PM »
Good one, Dimitrius.

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« Last Edit: October 26, 2006, 05:35:11 PM by Αριστοκλής »
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Offline Philokalia

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Re: The OO , EO and Catholic common saint
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2006, 06:31:24 PM »
St Paul the Apostle to the Gentiles? St Ambrose of Milan? St Benedict of Nursia?  St Basil the Great? St Mary Magdalene?
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Offline ozgeorge

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Re: The OO , EO and Catholic common saint
« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2006, 06:49:43 PM »
I may be incorrect about this, but I think St. John the Merciful (St. John Eleimon) is also venerated by the Coptic and Ethiopian Churches. He was the Chacedonian Patriarch of Alexandria in the early seventh century, and was renowned for his meekness and almsgiving. He showed great tolerance and kindness to the Non-Chalcedonians in contrast to the violence that had been practiced against them, and strove towards reconciliation between the Churches. If indeed the Coptic and Ethiopian Churches recognise him, I would have to say that he would be a great hope for us all.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2006, 06:51:30 PM by ozgeorge »
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Offline Αριστοκλής

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Re: The OO , EO and Catholic common saint
« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2006, 11:03:28 PM »
Indeed, ozgeorge, indeed.

Now I must read up on him.
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Offline Panagiotis

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Re: The OO , EO and Catholic common saint
« Reply #13 on: October 26, 2006, 11:39:47 PM »
St. Stephen the first martyr I would say. He is such an example of the Faith in his declaration recorded in the Acts of the Apostles. He led the way for the Church through persecution for us all to stand for Christ in times of peril, unshaken and speaking the Truth to all. I say he is a wonderful example through the three Churches mentioned.
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Offline minasoliman

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Re: The OO , EO and Catholic common saint
« Reply #14 on: October 27, 2006, 12:34:09 AM »
The Four Gospel writers, St. Mary the Virgin and what about St. Paul?

Ebor

I think St. Paul is just AWESOME (not above the Theotokos of course).  Repentant, humility, suffering, evangelist, powerful, philosopher, wonder-worker, a slave of Christ, a bishop who no one claims sole direct line to.

I want to be like him.
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Offline ozgeorge

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Re: The OO , EO and Catholic common saint
« Reply #15 on: October 27, 2006, 05:40:55 AM »
I think St. Paul is just AWESOME (not above the Theotokos of course).  Repentant, humility, suffering, evangelist, powerful, philosopher, wonder-worker, a slave of Christ, a bishop who no one claims sole direct line to.

I want to be like him.
You want to be a Bishop that no one claims a direct line to? ;)
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Offline minasoliman

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Re: The OO , EO and Catholic common saint
« Reply #16 on: October 27, 2006, 11:46:05 AM »
You want to be a Bishop that no one claims a direct line to? ;)

lol...  Except the bishop part.  :P
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Offline EkhristosAnesti

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Re: The OO , EO and Catholic common saint
« Reply #17 on: October 30, 2006, 05:20:55 AM »
Quote
I may be incorrect about this, but I think St. John the Merciful (St. John Eleimon) is also venerated by the Coptic and Ethiopian Churches. He was the Chacedonian Patriarch of Alexandria in the early seventh century, and was renowned for his meekness and almsgiving. He showed great tolerance and kindness to the Non-Chalcedonians in contrast to the violence that had been practiced against them, and strove towards reconciliation between the Churches. If indeed the Coptic and Ethiopian Churches recognise him, I would have to say that he would be a great hope for us all.

I couldn't find any mention of him in the Synaxarium, though His Holiness Pope Shenouda III does refer to a "St. John the Merciful" in a few of his writings. Although H.H. mentions nothing of his ecclesiastical position, he does depict him as one who was renowned for his charity to the poor; this suggests that he could very well be referring to the Chalcedonian Patriarch you have in mind given the fact that that very Patriarch seems to be alternatively known as St. John the Almsgiver.

I believe there are a few more Chalcedonian Saints who are recognised as such according to various OO traditions. Empress Theodora, the wife of Emperor Justinian, for example, is recognised as a Saint by virtue of the fact she offered protection to many OO Bishops who were threatened with persecution under Emperor Justinian's reign and she offered refuge to OO heirarchs who were forced into exile, in her very own palace.

On the other hand, there are Non-Chalcedonian figures who are recognised as Saints according to various EO traditions. The EO Church of Georgia, for example, venerates St. Peter the Iberian, St. David of Garesga, and St Eustace of Metskheta.

Then again, there are non-Ephesian and non-Chalcedonian figures (i.e. Nestorian) who are recognised as Saints by both our Churches e.g. St. Isaac the Syrian.
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Offline Αριστοκλής

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Re: The OO , EO and Catholic common saint
« Reply #18 on: October 30, 2006, 09:08:47 AM »

On the other hand, there are Non-Chalcedonian figures who are recognised as Saints according to various EO traditions. The EO Church of Georgia, for example, venerates St. Peter the Iberian, St. David of Garesga, and St Eustace of Metskheta.

This does not surprise me as the Church of Georgia was, for a time, non-Chalcedonian. They may venerate these saints actively, but in the EO communion we recognize the saints of our sister churches even if we do not actively venerate them.
Now I must read up on these saints, too.  :)
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Offline EkhristosAnesti

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Re: The OO , EO and Catholic common saint
« Reply #19 on: October 31, 2006, 05:53:39 AM »
Quote
Now I must read up on these saints, too.


With regard to St. Peter the Iberian specifically, there are two popular versions of his biography. The earliest version is a seventh century Syriac translation of the original Greek version of his biography written by his disciple immediately after his death, and another is a thirteenth century Greek version that has been heavily distorted by redactors of the Georgian Church who sought to gloss over the fact he was quite an ardent opposer of Chalcedon.

It's interesting to contrast the fact that there is no real hint that St. Isaac the Syrian actively pursued the Nestorian cause (we simply infer that he was of the Nestorian Church according to certain historical facts surrounding his geographical jurisdiction inter alia), with the fact that St. John the Merciful was a zealous supporter of Chalcedon, and the fact St. Peter the Iberian was a zealous opposer of Chalcedon.

I wander what implications this observation may be deemed to give rise to, especially with regard to the idea of recognising--after a thorough analysis performed by each Church within the context of much prayer and a spirit of humility--Holy Orthodoxy in the teachings and lives of certain figures of the other's Communion--particularly those once deemed heretics by virtue of their support-to/resistance-of a certain council, and consequently canonising those figures in the lead up to a possible future re-intercommunion*.

*Note: I am not personally advocating this idea; I am simply raising it for consideration.
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Offline Αριστοκλής

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Re: The OO , EO and Catholic common saint
« Reply #20 on: October 31, 2006, 08:31:17 AM »
EA,
Whether you advocate it or not, your last paragraph above read my mind (if I have one left).  :D
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Offline Timos

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Re: The OO , EO and Catholic common saint
« Reply #21 on: October 31, 2006, 10:56:53 PM »
Umm clearly, St. George the martyr or St. Nicholas.