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Author Topic: Greek Orthodox Church  (Read 5439 times) Average Rating: 0
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TomS
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« on: October 11, 2004, 10:14:45 AM »

The times, they are a changin'

----

Church steps back to the future

The Greek Orthodox Church seems to have taken tentative steps toward entertaining the possibility of inducting women into its order for the first time since the fifth century, after the Holy Synod said that the subject was broached during its meeting yesterday.

The Church governing body said Bishop Chrysostomos of Halkida had initiated a discussion on the subject of the role of women in the Church and the revival of female deacons, who were part of the Church during the fourth and fifth centuries. Twelve bishops and Archbishop Christodoulos, the head of the Church of Greece, make up the Holy Synod.

It was decided that women could be used as deacons in remote monasteries, at the discretion of bishops. However, the Holy Synod ruled that the women would not be formally ordained. This outcome did not please some of the holy men. “The role of female deacons must be in society and not in the monasteries,” Chrysostomos, the bishop of Peristeri, is quoted as saying by the Athens News Agency (ANA).

Other bishops felt there was no need to go any further than the Holy Synod had decided. “As far as I know, the induction of women into the police and the army was a failure and we want to return to this old matter?” said Anthimos, bishop of Thessaloniki.

Meanwhile, the Hierarchs of the Church of Greece, a body made up of 62 bishops, voted against allowing Archbishop Christodoulos to meet with the pope, for the time being. Christodoulos had planned to spend time with Pope John Paul II during a forthcoming trip to Rome, to reciprocate the Pontiff’s ground-breaking official visit to Greece in 2001. After the vote, the archbishop was quoted as saying he still believed that the Church of Greece should be open to more progressive ideas.

http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles_politics_100010_09/10/2004_48208
« Last Edit: October 11, 2004, 10:15:13 AM by Tom+ú » Logged
TomS
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« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2004, 10:26:38 AM »

I saw grafitti like this on other churches throughout Greece. Sad.



« Last Edit: October 11, 2004, 10:41:27 AM by Tom+ú » Logged
TomS
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« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2004, 10:28:37 AM »

Inside the church - the iconostasis looks Protestant. They were preparing for a Baptism.



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TomS
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« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2004, 10:34:47 AM »

Venerating the Cross in the main Church on the island of Naxos.

Notice the lines of chairs/pews? I saw this setup in ALL of the active churches that I went into in Greece. And when I attended the services, the people used them just like in the USA.





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« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2004, 10:35:15 AM »

Inside the church - the iconostasis looks Protestant. They were preparing for a Baptism.


"Protestant' iconostasis?  :cwm35:
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TomS
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« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2004, 10:36:12 AM »

"Protestant' iconostasis?  :cwm35:

Yeah. Well, I mean that the artwork is very western.

Standard tourist Santorini shot --

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« Last Edit: October 11, 2004, 10:47:58 AM by Tom+ú » Logged
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« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2004, 10:48:44 AM »

After the vote, the archbishop was quoted as saying he still believed that the Church of Greece should be open to more progressive ideas.


What are you saying, TomΣ ? Sounds like just your kind of church!  Wink

Apparently the archbishop is trying to out-liberal the EP. This and the 'baptism' agreement in the other thread certainly shows how irrelevant both these churches are becoming.
It's time for the Russians to stop their silliness, unite, and 'lead' the Church.

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« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2004, 10:50:14 AM »

Nice photos. Copywrited?

Demetri
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« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2004, 10:50:40 AM »

What are you saying, TomΣ ? Sounds like just your kind of church!  Wink

Apparently the archbishop is trying to out-liberal the EP. This and the 'baptism' agreement in the other thread certainly shows how irrelevant both these churches are becoming.
It's time for the Russians to stop their silliness, unite, and 'lead' the Church.

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« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2004, 12:10:32 PM »

The Iconostasis is NOT western. It maybe Slavic which resembles a western touch, but definitely not western or protestant.

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« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2004, 12:11:56 PM »

Nice photos. Copywrited?
Demetri

No. I took them when I was over there for 3 weeks earlier this month. I have hundreds of them from the mainland and a bunch of the islands.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2004, 12:12:17 PM by Tom+ú » Logged
TomS
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« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2004, 12:13:30 PM »

The Iconostasis is NOT western. It maybe Slavic which resembles a western touch, but definitely not western or protestant.

Are you kidding me? These look just like the paintings of Christ that I grew up with in the Baptist and Methodist churches in the US.

In fact -- gimme 5 minutes and I will go upstairs and take a picture of an "icon" I made in church in 1972, when I was about 14. The picture came from the church program from my parent's wedding in 1948.

Here ya go:






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« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2004, 12:28:03 PM »

I will stick by my original statement.

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« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2004, 01:51:51 PM »

Joe's right.  They look like the 19th century Russian icons that have a bit of the Western style to them.

You can't expect a Greek like Tom to understand Wink
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« Reply #14 on: October 11, 2004, 02:24:52 PM »

The Iconostasis is NOT western. It maybe Slavic which resembles a western touch, but definitely not western or protestant.

Well, the picture in the doorway is a reproduction of Heinrich Hoffman's Christ in the Garden of Gathsemane, which is as Protestant as it comes.
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« Reply #15 on: October 11, 2004, 03:27:35 PM »

I've seen the western-style icons in both Slavic and Greek churches.  I think that was sort of a trend for awhile, or something, but now (at least in the US) all of us new converts are so into the old style that more and more churches are taking on a classic look as opposed to the very western look that you see in a lot of older churches (but you're right, especially Russian or Slavic ones).
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« Reply #16 on: October 11, 2004, 06:47:08 PM »

Are you kidding me? These look just like the paintings of Christ that I grew up with in the Baptist and Methodist churches in the US.

Well, my friend, just call me a heretical modernist as I have a hard time being offended by the 'painting' or the image Kelbe cited - I remember both in use in my 1955 GOAA Sunday School materials.

As to 'western-style' Slavic iconostasia, well, just blame those pesky Jesuits, they're always handy for blame  Grin

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« Reply #17 on: October 11, 2004, 09:30:33 PM »

I saw grafitti like this on other churches throughout Greece. Sad.




This is really disturbing.  You would think in Greece of all places the churches would be safe.  Is anyone doing anything about it?
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« Reply #18 on: October 11, 2004, 10:27:26 PM »

The three-dimensional, "westernized" techniques are not uncommon in the eastern Slavic countries (Russia, Belarus, and Ukraine).  Here are a few from the Cathedral of Christ the Savior in Moscow.


More...
http://www.xxc.ru/foto/recon/s01/index.htm
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« Reply #19 on: October 11, 2004, 10:34:13 PM »

This is really disturbing.  You would think in Greece of all places the churches would be safe.  Is anyone doing anything about it?

The problem w/ state sponsored churches..they are viewed as agencies of the state and an extension of the state as "authority figure", then they become targets of anti-authoritarians.
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« Reply #20 on: October 11, 2004, 11:49:14 PM »

The problem w/ state sponsored churches..they are viewed as agencies of the state and an extension of the state as "authority figure", then they become targets of anti-authoritarians.

Good point, Crucifer.
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« Reply #21 on: October 12, 2004, 09:40:21 AM »

I really don't see why ya'll are offended by western style icons.  Icon painting, just like liturgical music & church architecture changed & evolved (or some might say regressed) with time.  It's what people liked back then (18th, 19th century) as opposed to what they liked in the 13th century.  So what?  You don't have to get your unddies in a knot over it.

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« Reply #22 on: October 12, 2004, 09:46:42 AM »

amen, sista
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« Reply #23 on: October 12, 2004, 10:49:16 AM »

I am not at all offended by it -- I was just surprised to see it there. That was the only Church in Greece where I saw it. So it was surprising to me.
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« Reply #24 on: October 12, 2004, 12:52:13 PM »

The three-dimensional, "westernized" techniques are not uncommon in the eastern Slavic countries (Russia, Belarus, and Ukraine).  Here are a few from the Cathedral of Christ the Savior in Moscow.


More...
http://www.xxc.ru/foto/recon/s01/index.htm

I didn't think God the Father could be depicted on icons.  (Isn't that Who is being depicted in the center picture above the dove and child?)
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« Reply #25 on: October 12, 2004, 01:01:06 PM »

Re God the Father:

we are discussing this in the other thread here:
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/newboard/index.php?board=7;action=display;threadid=4356
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« Reply #26 on: October 12, 2004, 01:05:40 PM »

Looks like Albert Einstein to me..

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« Reply #27 on: October 12, 2004, 03:06:06 PM »

lol  :smiley1:
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« Reply #28 on: October 12, 2004, 04:13:41 PM »

You mean God doesn't look like George Burns???
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