I will believe what people say about there faith, more than your own opinions and interpretations of their faith and actions.
Many Pro-Choice Catholics believe the Catholic Church is infallible and the true Church, however they don't believe the Church's teaching on abortion is an infallible one. Their main argument is that over the centuries that Church has not been 100% against abortion and that it wasn't until recently that the Church has taken a stance against all forms of abortion, and there is some truth to that, historicaly speaking. So really pro-choice Catholics, well at least the many that I know, don't deny that the Church is infallible, they just differ with the pro-life Catholics as to whether the Church's teaching on abortion is infallible and must be obeyed or not.
If the Church is infallible about faith and morals then its teachings must be obeyed. Therefore if someone believes that the Church doesn't have to be obeyed then they don't believe the Church is infallible regardless of their claims to believe in the infallibility of the Church. Also if they believe the Church can make a mistake about an issue as important as abortion then they believe the Church is fallible because an infallible organization cannot make a mistake about an issue like abortion.
For example, if someone believes a clock is working properly they 'believe' the clock when it states the time. People claim to trust things when they don't really trust them.
I don't think the majority of Catholics deny or reject that the Catholic Church is the true infallible Church, I think that where the Church is infallible, and where it isn't, is where Catholics, esp American Catholics, differ. I have never met a Pro-Choice Catholic who rejects the Immaculate Conception or the Assumption, they agree that the Church is infallible in doctrinal matters, just not when "they tell a woman what to do with their body."
But telling a woman what to do with her body is a doctrinal matter. What a pro-choice Catholic does is limit the Church's authority and an infallible organization ordained by God himself to 'bind and loose' can't be limited. It doesn't matter if they accept the Immaculate Conception or the Assumption they still do not accept the infallibility of the Church.
It doesn't matter what they say. What matters is what they do and no one who believes the Church is infallible believes that it's possible for the Church to be wrong about abortion. Now they may not have thought this through completely and may think they are 'obedient' Catholics but deep down in their hearts they don't believe in the infallibility of the Church because if they did believe in the infallibility of the Church they would be pro-life.
Becuase they believe, with some historical proof, that the Church has not always condemned abortion, and always hasn't taken a totally pro-life stance.
I agree with you, but you can take that a little too far. Bishops can make mistakes, they can even be heretics, and even the vast majority of the magisterium can teach heresy, there a several examples of this in Church History. The Church's offical dogmas and doctrines can't be wrong, if the Church is infallible, but the magisterium, or most of it, can teach heresy..
No, the magisterium cannot teach heresy. The magisterium is the teaching authority of the Church. Individual bishops or even groups of bishops can teach heresy but the magisterium cannot teach heresy.
Right, when it comes to a woman's body. But they do believe the Church has the aurthority to tell them what or how to believe when it comes to doctrinal and dogmatic issues.
No they don't. Abortion is a doctrinal issue.
Jennifer, I am very close to women who have had abortions, and most of them believe they did absolutely nothing wrong. They had abortions with in the first few weeks of their pregnancy, and truly believe they just had a blob of tissue removed, they in no way think it was a human being, or that murder occured, and these are people I am very close with. They see nothing wrong with what they did.I am sorry, but not in my expirence..
Thinking that you did something is not the same as knowing you did something wrong. People, through sin, can harden their hearts and no longer be able to discern the state of their soul. People often ignore truths they don't like. But natural law is written on everyone's heart. As the catechism says "no one is deemed to be ignorant of the moral law, which are written in the conscience of every man."
So then following that logic, I assume he refuses to hear confessions? Catholics can confess whatever they want in confession, but must only confess Mortal sins, if only priests can committ mortal sins, then only priests should go to confession.
Now that's just silly. I think you think that venial sins are not serious sins. Unrepented venial sins predispose us to mortal sin. Venial sin weakens charity.
And as I said in one of my earlier posts, priests are not infallible, they each have their own expirence. And as I also said, my priest, who has been a priest for 32 years, totally disagrees, and does believe we can committ mortal sins, and that we do!
We all believe that people 'can' commit mortal sins but mortal sin requires such a complete knowledge of the gravity of the act that this priest (and many others, btw) doubt that the average person is capable of commiting a mortal sin. I would venture to guess that this priest of yours would probably have a hard time saying with absolute certainty that the majority of the people who have confessed to him have committed mortal sins. They may committed things on the official list of mortal sins but as we saw in the link from the Summa, mortal sins can become venial and venial sins can become mortal based on knowledge.
Who in the world would do something just to hurt God? Just out of a deep hate for God?
Someone who is evil.
If you committ a serious sin, and you know that it is a very serious sin, but you do it anyway, you have committed a moratl sin. You must have full knowledge that it is a sin, but you just do it anyway. As I have said there are so many times in my life where I have committed very serious sins, knowing that they were very serious sins but doing it anyway, but not with the specific intention of hurting God, or to somehow show that I hate him.
What do you mean by "do it anyway?" That had absolute faith that immediately after stealing that candy bar that you would die and go to hell and you didn't care? Or that you figured you'd have a chance to work everything out with God because you'd go to confession the next saturday? Or that you didn't really believe that God would send you to hell for stealing a candy bar?
Committing a mortal sin hurts God because it is a deliberate personal choice to disobey God's law. It's a rejection of God which hurts God. When you reject your mother, don't you know that it hurts her? Isn't there a part of you that wants to hurt her? Committing a mortal sin is a deliberal personal choice for hell over heaven. When you stole that candy bar did you choose hell?
But see that person couldn't stop. Now if that person intentially ran into another car, just to hurt the other person, knowing that it was very wrong to do so, has committed a mortal sin, even if they didn't do it to hurt God, or show their hate for him.
How could someone intentionally hurt another person and not intend to also hurt God? It isn't possible to commit a mortal sin without also intending to hurt God. It could also very well not be possible to commit a mortal sin without also intending to hurt God. It hurts God when we turn away from him and venial sin is the deliberate turning away from God.