Author Topic: May's Old Calendar Feasts  (Read 3413 times)

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Offline Nigula Qian Zishi

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May's Old Calendar Feasts
« on: May 01, 2003, 01:44:48 PM »
2 - Theotokos of the Lifegiving Font
4 - Apostle Thomas Sunday
5 - Serbian Soul Day
6 - Great Martyr George/Russian Soul Day
8 - Apostle & Evangelist Mark
11-Myrrh Bearing Women
13-Apostle James Zebedee
15-Athanasius the Great
16-Theodsius of the Kiev Caves
18-Paralytic
20-Sign of the Precious Cross
21-Apostle & Evangelist John
24-Saints Methodius & Cyril
25-Samaritan Woman
« Last Edit: May 01, 2003, 01:57:26 PM by -Â¥-+-¦-+-+-¦-¦ »
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Offline Brigid of Kildare

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Re:May's Old Calendar Feasts
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2003, 05:50:19 PM »
Dynamis sent me this list of readings and feasts for May if it's any help:

1   Bright Thursday                
   Acts 2:38-43     Jn 3:1-15      
2   Bright Friday: The Life-Giving Spring of the Most Holy Theotokos    
   Phil 2:5-11      Lk 10:38-42; 11:27-28  
3   Bright Saturday                                        
   Acts 3:11-16     Jn 3:22-33      
4   Sunday of Saint Thomas: New Sunday                  
   Acts 5:12-20     Jn 20:19-31    
5   Mon Great Martyr Irene of Thessalonika                      
   Acts 3:19-26     Jn 2:1-11  
6   Tues Righteous Job the Long-suffering                      
   Acts 4:1-12      Jn 3:16-21      
7   Wed Priest Alexis, Confessor and Defender of Orthodoxy in America      
   Acts 4:13-22     Jn 5:17-24
8   Thur Apostle and Evangelist John the Theologian            
   1 Jn 1:1-7       Jn 19:25-27; 21:24-25  
9   Fri The Holy Prophet Isaiah                                
   Acts 5:1-11      Jn 5:30-6:2    
10 Sat Apostle Simon Zelotes                            
   Acts 5:21-33     Jn 6:14-27      
11 Sunday of the Myrrh Bearing Women: Ss Joseph and Nicodemos (2)  
   Acts 6:1-7       Mk 15:43-16:8      
12 Mon Germanos, Patriarch of Constantinople                    
   Acts 6:8-7:5, 47-60  Jn 4:46-54  
13 Tue Virgin Martyr Glykeria of Heraklea                      
   Acts 8:5-17      Jn 6:27-33      
14 Wed Martyr Isidore of Chios                          
   Acts 8:18-25     Jn 6:35-39      
15 Thu Achilles, Bishop of Larisa                          
   Acts 8:26-39     Jn 6:40-44      
16 Fri Venerable Theodore the Sanctified: Disciple of Pachomios the Great  
   Acts 8:40-9:19   Jn 6:48-54      
17 Sat Apostles Andronikos and Junia of the Seventy            
   Acts 9:20-31     Jn 15:17-16:2      
18 Sunday of the Paralytic (3)                              
   Acts 9:32-42     Jn 5:1-15  
19 Mon Hieromartyr Patrick, Bishop of Prussa                    
   Acts 10:1-16     Jn 6:56-69      
20 Tues Uncovering of the Relics of Alexis, Metropolitan of Moscow      
   Acts 10:21-33    Jn 7:1-13      
21 Wed Mid-Pentecost: Constantine and Helen: Equals-to-the-Apostles
   Acts 26:1, 12-20     Jn 7:14-30  
22 Thur Martyr Basiliskos of Comana                    
   Acts 10:34-43    Jn 8:12-20      
23 Fri Myrrhbearer Mary, Wife of Cleopas                        
   Acts 10:44-11:10 Jn 8:21-30          
24 Sat Vincent of Lerins                                
   Acts 12:1-11     Jn 8:31-42      
25 Sunday of the Samaritan Woman: Discovery of Head of Forerunner (4)  
   2 Cor 4:6-15     Jn 4:5-42      
26 Mon Augustine of Canterbury, Evangelizer of England              
   Acts 12:12-17        Jn 8:42-51      
27 Tues Hieromartyr Therapont, Bishop of Sardis                
   Acts 12:25-13:12 Jn 8:51-59      
28 Wed Germanos, Bishop of Paris                            
   Acts 13:13-24        Jn 6:5-14      
29 Thu Hieromartyr Luke, Surgeon of Simferopol                  
   Acts 14:20-27        Jn 9:39-10:9
30 Fri Isaac, Founder of the Dalmaton Monastery                
   Acts 15:5-34     Jn 10:17-28    
31 Sat Translation of the Relics of Philip, Metropolitan of Moscow          
   Acts 15:35-41        Jn 10:27-38    
(#)  Bracketed numbers on Sundays indicate the Tone for the week.
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Offline TonyS

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Re:May's Old Calendar Feasts
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2003, 06:34:26 PM »
Does anyone know the new calendar feasts for May?

 But I'd like to ask that in the future, dates be inserted on the calendar on their NC dates, with due reference to their OC dates, except for major feasts.

Dear Mor,

Christ is Risen!

I don't mean to act ignorant but I just don't understand what the above means.  You don't want major feasts listed on both calendars?  What does that mean?  What is major?  We classify feasts usually as fixed and moveable date.  

The calendar issue is most important for fixed feasts as the moveable feasts fall on the same day for those using the Julian Paschalion (like this year) even if the calendar has a different date on it.  For the fixed feasts there is a 13 day difference.  In other words Pascha next year will be on the same day for the OCA, MP and ROCOR and those on the Western Paschalion, but the dates will be still be technically different.   On the other hand most parishes, of the lower 48, of the OCA will celebrate the Annunciation and other fixed feasts 13 days before the MP and ROCOR.  

Tony ???
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Offline Justin Kissel

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Re:May's Old Calendar Feasts
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2003, 08:26:03 PM »
*hears can of worms opening*
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Offline David

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Re:May's Old Calendar Feasts
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2003, 09:01:14 PM »
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Re:May's Old Calendar Feasts
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2003, 09:09:48 PM »
Dear Tony,

Indeed He is risen!  

I'm sorry if I wasn't clear in my last post.  

Basically, I think that if we add too many dates to one calendar box and/or duplicate dates unnecessarily, it's just cluttered and has the potential to be confusing.  So, for most feast days of saints, inserting them under their New Calendar date would be preferred, since most of the Orthodox here use the revised Julian.  

For example, I saw that Saint James is listed on the site's calendar twice even though his feast is 1 May: I listed him under 1 May on the civil calendar, and Nik listed him on 13 May or thereabouts.  The feast, however, is 1 May on both calendars, the discrepancy being caused by the extra days or whatever when compared to the civil calendar.  I am not sure, but I don't think Saint James' feast day is as big as, say, the Dormition.  So, even though both are fixed feasts, I would be in favour of duplicating the Dormition for both calendars (inserting it both for 15 August and 28 August), but for Saint James, would prefer the type of entry that looked like this:

1 May: Saint James (O.C., 13 May)

Of course, one would have to use discretion when doing this; I don't know the Byzantine calendar well enough to know which feast is more important than the other, although I would presume there is at least some rudimentary arrangement (for instance, the twelve great feasts outrank other feasts in honour).  I trust everyone here to know what is of greater and lesser importance on their respective calendars.  

As for the dates I entered, Nik, most of those do not depend on the Gregorian Paschalion: only one, the Ascension, did.  But that is a solemn feast, so I would expect that it be listed twice.  I wouldn't mind labelling certain dates as "GC" for Gregorian calendar, but the only dates where that would really matter would be the ones that depend on Pascha...by and large, the fixed dates are the same whether you are exclusively on the Gregorian or you're on the revised Julian.  I don't like the current calendar situation that prevails in Orthodoxy, but like it or not, we've got to work around it, and I honestly think the best way to do this for the site's purposes is the way I've suggested, so that we don't clutter things up and make figuring out a saint's day even more confusing than it already is.  :P  

And if this didn't clear up any confusion, let me know, I'll try it again.
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Offline Brigid of Kildare

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Re:May's Old Calendar Feasts
« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2003, 03:45:31 PM »
I see that today is Serbian Soul day. What is this? It sounds intriguing!

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Offline Nigula Qian Zishi

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Re:May's Old Calendar Feasts
« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2003, 04:55:51 PM »
I think they are days when traditioanlyl graves are blessed. Today is Serbia's while tomorrow's is Russian Soul Day.
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Re:May's Old Calendar Feasts
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2003, 05:52:02 PM »
Tony,

You're right that the feasts are the same day if you look at them from the Church Calendar standpoint but Nicholas listed the OC dates according to their secular dates, so for instance Sts. Cyril and Methodius is listed as "May 24" when it falls on May 11 according to the Church Calendar.

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Re:May's Old Calendar Feasts
« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2003, 06:05:59 PM »
Well, all I know is that tomorrow is "Radonitsa" ("Joy Day") on the OCA calendar, but in my parish this day has historically been transferred to St. Thomas Sunday so that the greatest amount of parishioners could participate.

Yesterday, after the final blessing of the Artos at the end of Liturgy, a Memorial Litiya for all deceased parishioners was sung to Paschal hymns in church.  Then, at 2 pm, it was off to the cemetery to announce the joy of the Resurrection to all our parishioners buried there.  Quite the scene: the priest in his black skufya, white stole and white cuffs and black riassa, leading a Paschal Panikhida at the parish memorial monument with a lighted candle on a stand, burning incense pouring from a golden censor, the icon of the Descent into Hades (Resurrection) and hand cross on a white cloth-covered analoy.  Then, to the continuous singing of Paschal hymns and shouts of "Christ is Risen!" each grave was blessed and a family member set a colored Easter egg on each grave.  Some Armenian graves bordering so closely on the Russian and Greek ones got sprinkled with holy water too, but what the heck: "Christ is Risen!"

Hypo-Ortho
« Last Edit: May 05, 2003, 06:12:36 PM by Hypo-Ortho »

Offline TonyS

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Re:May's Old Calendar Feasts
« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2003, 11:28:50 PM »
Tony,

You're right that the feasts are the same day if you look at them from the Church Calendar standpoint but Nicholas listed the OC dates according to their secular dates, so for instance Sts. Cyril and Methodius is listed as "May 24" when it falls on May 11 according to the Church Calendar.

anastasios

Dear Anastasios,

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I am unclear about what you are addressing in the above message.  I said in my last message on this thread
Quote
The calendar issue is most important for fixed feasts as the moveable feasts fall on the same day for those using the Julian Paschalion (like this year) even if the calendar has a different date on it. For the fixed feasts there is a 13 day difference.  In other words Pascha next year will be on the same day for the OCA, MP and ROCOR and those on the Western Paschalion, but the dates will be still be technically different.
 
It seems clear to me (of course I wrote it).  This year, for instance, Pascha for those who use the "revised Julian" was on April 27th, those on the Julian April 14th, yet it was on the same day.  

What are you saying?

Tony
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Offline Anastasios

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Re:May's Old Calendar Feasts
« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2003, 11:48:32 AM »
I am saying that the admins of this forum don't want people to list Old Calendar feast days according to their secular date, so for instance, we don't want people to put that St. Nicholas day is December 19, Sts. Cyril and Methodius is May 24.  We want people to list them as December 6, May 11, etc., since that is their Church Calendar date. Whether one thinks that today is actually May 7 or April 25 (depending on his calendar) is of no concern to me, I just don't want two sets of feast days listed.

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Offline TonyS

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Re:May's Old Calendar Feasts
« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2003, 11:44:56 PM »
Dear Anastasios,

XB!

Please go back and read my posts.  I am not proposing that dates be listed twice as you seem to indicate.  Nor am I suggesting old calendar dates even be used.  Nick and Mor are (although Mor's post was unclear to me hence my question).

Tony
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Offline Anastasios

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Re:May's Old Calendar Feasts
« Reply #13 on: May 08, 2003, 12:18:17 AM »
Dear Tony,

BB!

I sought to respond to this quotation of yours

Quote
The calendar issue is most important for fixed feasts as the moveable feasts fall on the same day for those using the Julian Paschalion (like this year) even if the calendar has a different date on it.  For the fixed feasts there is a 13 day difference.  In other words Pascha next year will be on the same day for the OCA, MP and ROCOR and those on the Western Paschalion, but the dates will be still be technically different.  On the other hand most parishes, of the lower 48, of the OCA will celebrate the Annunciation and other fixed feasts 13 days before the MP and ROCOR.  

I didn't say that you were saying that two dates should be on the calendar--in the first instance I answered this point and in the second I used the point raised to explain in general that we don't want two dates posted for every fixed feast.

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Re:May's Old Calendar Feasts
« Reply #14 on: May 08, 2003, 10:19:45 AM »
Nor am I suggesting old calendar dates even be used.  Nick and Mor are (although Mor's post was unclear to me hence my question).

Hey, I'd rather everyone just used the Gregorian calendar for everything.  :P

(Relax, everyone...)

Honestly, I would rather that New Calendar dates be used exclusively.  The majority of Orthodox on this board use the New Calendar, so it would make sense to use that.  But we have a few people who only use the Old Calendar.  Rather than duplicate dates, I'd rather see them on the New Calendar with reference to the Old, as I illustrated in a previous post.  Anastasios explained my idea better than I did, I think.
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Offline Anastasios

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Re:May's Old Calendar Feasts
« Reply #15 on: May 08, 2003, 02:09:42 PM »
Right, as long as we are understanding "Dates" to be according to the secular rendering, since another poster's original point was that the "dates" are the same on the actual calendars, it is the calendars that are different!  8)

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Offline The young fogey

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Re:May's Old Calendar Feasts
« Reply #16 on: May 16, 2003, 12:13:47 PM »
-ƒ-+-+-¦-Ç-¦-¦-+-¦-¦-+ -¦-ü-¦-+ -ü -+-Ç-¦-+-¦-+-+-¦-+-+ -ü-¦. -ñ-¦-+-¦-+-ü-+-Å -Ü-+-¦-¦-ü-¦-+-¦-+.

'Theodosius of the KP Caves'?

Of course that should read 'Theodosius of the Kiev Caves' or 'Theodosius of the Kievan Caves'.

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Re:May's Old Calendar Feasts
« Reply #17 on: May 16, 2003, 12:45:29 PM »
LOL that is funny, good catch, Serge!

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Offline Nigula Qian Zishi

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Re:May's Old Calendar Feasts
« Reply #18 on: May 16, 2003, 12:54:41 PM »
No clue. I looked on my calendar for a clue and it says for today, "Theodius of KP Caves" Maybe it is specifying which Kiev caves? Got me. I'm sure its not supposed to be Kiev "Patriarchate".
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Offline The young fogey

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Re:May's Old Calendar Feasts
« Reply #19 on: May 16, 2003, 01:05:45 PM »
Maybe the P in KP in that entry is for the Russian word for caves and so should not have been there since the entry already has 'Caves' translated.
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Re:May's Old Calendar Feasts
« Reply #20 on: May 16, 2003, 01:07:12 PM »
I seem to remember hearing the Kiev Caves referred to as something like (I might botch this up) the Kiev Pecherska Lavra (??).  Perhaps that's the KP?
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Offline The young fogey

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Re:May's Old Calendar Feasts
« Reply #21 on: May 16, 2003, 01:13:37 PM »
That's what I meant, Mor Ephrem. Pecherskaya (Russian) or pecherska (Ukrainian) means 'of the caves'.
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