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91
Liturgy / Re: Links for Byzantine Music
« Last post by Apostolos on Yesterday at 09:40:26 AM »
Matinal Doxastikon from the Feast of Elevation of the Holy Cross after Peter the Peloponnesian (+1778) in Mode Pl. of 2nd chanted by Panagiotis Neochorites (live recording, Patriarchal Cathedral of St. George, Istanbul, 9/14/2016):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7glQRFaI4kk

Δόξα Πατρὶ καὶ Υἱῷ καὶ Ἁγίῳ Πνεύματι.
Καὶ νῦν καὶ ἀεὶ καὶ εἰς τούς αἰῶνας τῶν αἰώνων, Ἀμήν.
Σήμερον προέρχεται ὁ Σταυρὸς τοῦ Κυρίου, καὶ πιστοὶ εἰσδέχονται αὐτὸν ἐκ πόθου, καὶ λαμβάνουσιν ἰάματα ψυχῆς τε καὶ σώματος, καὶ πάσης μαλακίας. Αὐτὸν ἀσπασώμεθα τῇ χαρᾷ καὶ τῷ φόβῳ· φόβῳ διὰ τὴν ἁμαρτίαν, ὡς ἀνάξιοι ὄντες· χαρᾷ δὲ διὰ τὴν σωτηρίαν, ἣν παρέχει τῷ κόσμῳ, ὁ ἐν αὐτῷ προσπαγεὶς Χριστὸς ὁ Κύριος, ὁ ἔχων τὸ μέγα ἔλεος.

Glory to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit.
Both now and ever and unto the ages of ages, Amen.
Today the Cross of the Lord goeth forth, and the faithful welcome it with longing, and they receive healing of soul and body and of every malady. Let us kiss it with joy and fear: with fear,
because of sin, for we are unworthy; with joy, because of the salvation granted to the world by Him Who was crucified thereon, Christ the Lord, Who hath Great Mercy.

The Great Doxology after Peter the Peloponnesian in Mode 4th "Agia" chanted antiphonally by Panagiotis Neochorites and Stylianos Phloikos (live recording, Patriarchal Cathedral of St. George, Istanbul, 9/14/2016):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUgPkr9QoMo

Δόξα σοι τῷ δείξαντι τὸ φῶς. Δόξα ἐν ὑψίστοις Θεῷ, καὶ ἐπὶ γῆς εἰρήνη, ἐν ἀνθρώποις εὐδοκία.
Ὑμνοῦμέν σε, εὐλογοῦμέν σε, προσκυνοῦμέν σε, δοξολογοῦμέν σε, εὐχαριστοῦμέν σοι, διὰ τὴν μεγάλην σου δόξαν.
Κύριε βασιλεῦ, ἐπουράνιε Θεέ, Πάτερ παντοκράτορ, Κύριε Υἱὲ μονογενές, Ἰησοῦ Χριστέ, καὶ Ἅγιον Πνεῦμα.
Κύριε ὁ Θεός, ὁ ἀμνὸς τοῦ Θεοῦ, ὁ Υἱὸς τοῦ Πατρός, ὁ αἴρων τὴν ἁμαρτίαν τοῦ κόσμου, ἐλέησον ἡμᾶς, ὁ αἴρων τὰς ἁμαρτίας τοῦ κόσμου.
Πρόσδεξαι τὴν δέησιν ἡμῶν, ὁ καθήμενος ἐν δεξιᾷ τοῦ Πατρός, καὶ ἐλέησον ἡμᾶς.
Ὅτι σὺ εἶ μόνος Ἅγιος, σὺ εἶ μόνος Κύριος, Ἰησοῦς Χριστός, εἰς δόξαν Θεοῦ Πατρός. Ἀμήν.
Καθ’ ἑκάστην ἡμέραν εὐλογήσω σε, καὶ αἰνέσω τὸ ὄνομά σου εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα, καὶ εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα τοῦ αἰῶνος.
Καταξίωσον, Κύριε, ἐν τῇ ἡμέρᾳ ταύτῃ, ἀναμαρτήτους φυλαχθῆναι ἡμᾶς.
Εὐλογητὸς εἶ, Κύριε, ὁ Θεὸς τῶν Πατέρων ἡμῶν, καὶ αἰνετὸν καὶ δεδοξασμένον τὸ ὄνομά σου εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας. Ἀμήν.
Γένοιτο, Κύριε, τὸ ἔλεός σου ἐφ’ ἡμᾶς, καθάπερ ἠλπίσαμεν ἐπὶ σέ.
Εὐλογητὸς εἶ, Κύριε, δίδαξόν με τὰ δικαιώματά σου. (x3)
Κύριε, καταφυγὴ ἐγενήθης ἡμῖν, ἐν γενεᾷ καὶ γενεᾷ. Ἐγὼ εἶπα΄ Κύριε, ἐλέησόν με, ἴασαι τὴν ψυχήν μου, ὅτι ἥμαρτόν σοι.
Κύριε, πρὸς σὲ κατέφυγον, δίδαξόν με τοῦ ποιεῖν τὸ θέλημά σου, ὅτι σὺ εἶ ὁ Θεός μου.
Ὅτι παρὰ σοὶ πηγὴ ζωῆς, ἐν τῷ φωτί σου ὀψόμεθα φῶς.
Παράτεινον τὸ ἔλεός σου τοῖς γινώσκουσί σε.
Ἅγιος ὁ Θεός, Ἅγιος Ἰσχυρός, Ἅγιος Ἀθάνατος, ἐλέησον ἡμᾶς. (x3)
Δόξα Πατρὶ καὶ Υἱῷ καὶ ἁγίῳ Πνεύματι.
Καὶ νῦν καὶ ἀεὶ καὶ εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας τῶν αἰώνων, Ἀμήν.
Ἅγιος Ἀθάνατος, ἐλέησον ἡμᾶς.

Glory to Thee, Who hast shown forth the light. Glory be to God on high, and on earth peace, goodwill towards men.
We praise Thee, we bless Thee, we worship Thee, we glorify Thee, we give thanks to Thee for Thy great glory.
O Lord and King, heavenly God, Father Almighty; O Lord, the only-begotten Son Jesus Christ, and Holy Spirit.
O Lord God, Lamb of God, Son of the Father, that takest away the sin of the world; have mercy upon us, Thou that takest away the sins of the world.
Accept our prayer, Thou that sittest on the right hand of the Father, and have mercy upon us.
For Thou only art Holy; Thou only art Lord, Jesus Christ, in the glory of God the Father, Amen.
Every day will I bless Thee and will I praise Thy Name forever and ever.
Strengthen us, O Lord, this day to be kept sinless.
Blessed art Thou, O Lord, God of our fathers, and praised and glorified is Thy Name forever, Amen.
Let Thy mercy, O Lord, be upon us, as we trust on Thee.
Blessed art Thou, O Lord, teach me Thy statutes. (x3)
O Lord, Thou hast been a refuge for us from generation to generation. I said, Lord have mercy upon me; heal my soul, for I have sinned against Thee.
O Lord, to Thee have I fled; teach me to do Thy will, for Thou art my God.
For with Thee is the fountain of life; in Thy light we shall see light.
Extend Thy mercy unto them that know Thee.
Holy God, Holy Mighty, Holy Immortal, have mercy upon us. (x3)
Glory be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit.
Both now and forever, and from all ages to all ages, Amen.
Holy Immortal, have mercy upon us.

Channel: youtube.com/user/OMILOSPETROS/videos
Your posts are very useful, Apostolos, specially the Greek texts.
Thanks, I appreciate it
92
Liturgy / Re: translations of the Creed
« Last post by Apostolos on Yesterday at 09:37:44 AM »
I don't know about Orthodox Churches. I do know that the Roman Catholic Church has a decently translated Creed, and so does my own Church, the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod. Actually, ours is as follows:

Quote
I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, maker of heaven and earth and of all things visible and invisible.

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of His Father before all worlds
Don't you mean "before all ages"? The Greek text reads "πρὸ πάντων τῶν αἰώνων" literally "before all aeons".
Quote
God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God...
Why do you add the phrase "God of God"? The Greek text reads "Φῶς ἐκ φωτός, Θεόν ἀληθινόν ἐκ Θεοῦ ἀληθινοῦ" = "Light of Light, true God of true God"
Naturally, as a Western Church, we include the Filioque...
Umm, yes, let's just leave it there...
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Liturgy / Re: translations of the Creed
« Last post by Diego on Yesterday at 09:05:34 AM »
I don't know about Orthodox Churches. I do know that the Roman Catholic Church has a decently translated Creed, and so does my own Church, the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod. Actually, ours is as follows:

Quote
I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, maker of heaven and earth and of all things visible and invisible.

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of His Father before all worlds, God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father, by whom all things were made; who for us men and for our salvation came down from heaven and was incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the virgin Mary and was made man; and was crucified under Pontius Pilate. He suffered and was buried. And the third day He rose again according to the Scriptures, and ascended into heaven and sits at the right hand of the Father. And He will com again with glory to judge both the living and the dead, whose kingdom will have no end.

And I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son, who with the Father and the Son together is worshiped and glorified, who spoke by the Prophets. And I believe in one holy Christian and Apostolic Church, I acknowledge one Baptism for the remission of sins, and I look for the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come. Amen.

Naturally, as a Western Church, we include the Filioque, although some of the more liberal Churches, like ELCA, have made it optional. The term "Christian", rather than "Catholic", has an interesting pedigree. To my knowledge, only the LCMS retains its use.

In modern German, there is, course, a perfectly good word for "Catholic",and that is "Katholiche" (sp?). But in Luther's time, German, unlike most other European languages, did NOT have a word for "Catholic", and so used the word "Christlich", which literally does translate as "Christian". When he translated the Mass into German, this was only word available to him at the time in the German tongue. So he used it.

When the Missouri Synod was formed, it was so formed by a bunch of German Lutherans, who continued with Divine Service in the German language. When the decision was made to Anglicise in the 1920's and 1930's, the term "Christlich" was simply translated as "Christian" rather than what would have been in English perhaps the more felicitous term, "Catholic".

Of course, your whole question probably only pertained to Orthodox Churches, and this answer is probably more info than you ever wanted or needed to know, but there you are.  :)
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To be fair, though, the impression I often get is that Orthodox parishes often don't seem to actively seek to convert anybody (Jewish or not) these days. They just wait for prospective converts to come to them. So it's not like this is just a Rome thing.

You're describing a practical failing rather than a doctrinal one. That some (most?) Orthodox parishes need to be better about evangelization is not quite the same as having Church theologians in a "Commission for Religious Relations with Everybody" writing up a report giving a theological basis for why "anybody" can be saved apart from Christ. The OP is describing a doctrinal failing, which is indeed a Rome thing.
95
Orthodox-Catholic Discussion / Re: Vatican: Jews don’t need Jesus to be saved
« Last post by Diego on Yesterday at 08:40:33 AM »
Wow. I mean, just, wow. And not in a good way. If its ANYTHING we should be praying for, hoping for, and on our knees begging for, it is the conversion of the Jews.Without meaning to sound in the SLIGHTEST anti-Semitic, and being as pro-Israel as some of you have noted me to be, such that in a thread dedicated to the issue I irritated some you, nevertheless, I don't think the idea that Jews should not convert or do not need to convert can be sustained.

The Jews are the Jews, and the Chosen of God, that is true. That promise is eternal. But the way I see it, it is in abeyance until they come to their senses and accept Jesus. They will always have spot near to God's own heart, but they must develop a spot for Jesus near their hearts.

I have studied Judaism in detail. I shan't explain all the details involved with that,
but as a religion, it is beautiful,but incomplete without Christ. It is most foolish to suggest that the Jews, of all the peoples of the world, get a special pass on which to NOT accept Jesus as Lord and Saviour of the world. There is NO people that get that pass. Jesus came for all men, that all men might believe on him and be saved.

In fact, looking at things in the traditional Lutheran Law v. Gospel sense, the Jews are EXACTLY the point where the Law gets brought up. The Jew is obligated to the 613 Commandments of the Law. He cannot possibly keep all of them. Now, in their own tradition, they have an understanding of it that says that as long as they go from one rung of the ladder to a higher rung, they are ok. But remember that the Jew does NOT, in any sense, refer to Christianity in his understanding of the world. The term "Judeo-Christian" makes no sense to the Jew, who cannot conceive of the two of them together. In his mind, the one is COMPLETELY separate from the other. They can in no wise be put together.

It is, however, in Christ that the Gospel must and does in fact reign over the hearts of men. If we, for reasons of Political Correctness, declare that all of a sudden one group of people doesn't need the Gospel, are we not in fact doing a severe disservice to that group by depriving it of the life-giving waters of Baptism, and of the constant utter fulfillment of Faith in the reception of Christ's Body and Blood?

It is not ultimately my place as an individual to tell ANYBODY where they are going to spend eternity. That is up to those who guard the purity of the Faith, like clergy and such. But it IS my place to preach the Gospel to all comers, and checking their Faith ID cards, and saying, "Oh, you are a Jew, you get a pass, go and sit over there, you don't need this message," is completely absurd.

But, more than preaching, how about living? All too often, the Jews of my acquaintance have been disgusted, not by Christianity, which they know little about, but by the behaviour of Christians, which they unfortunately know A LOT about. And its nothing nice, for the most part. Perhaps it would be best for us to simply have it be known who we are by our conduct. "And they'll know we are Christians by our love." John wrote that, although I don't remember which letter its in. The best missionising to Jews that can POSSIBLY be done is in love, loving them, loving ourselves, and loving everyone. And in so doing, to maintain our prayers for the wellness of the Saints.
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Liturgy / Re: translations of the Creed
« Last post by Bob2 on Yesterday at 08:26:02 AM »
Nope.

As I visit other churches it, I've encountered a few different versions.


This is what we use when we do it in English:
Quote
I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible. And in one Lord Jesus Christ. the Son of God, the Only-begotten, begotten of the Father before all ages. Light of Light; true God of true God, begotten, not made; of one essence with the Father by Whom all things were made; Who for us men, and for our salvation. came down from the heavens, and was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary, and became man; And was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate, and suffered, and was buried; And arose again on the third day according to the Scriptures; And ascended into the heavens, and sitteth at the right hand of the Father. And shall come again, with glory, to judge both the living and the dead; Whose kingdom shall have no end. And in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the Giver of Life; Who proceedeth from the Father; Who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified; Who spake by the prop! hets. In One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church. I confess one baptism for the remission of sins. I look for the resurrection of the dead, And the life of the age to come. Amen.
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Liturgy / translations of the Creed
« Last post by Jonathan on Yesterday at 07:58:16 AM »
Hello,

Is there a standard translation of the Creed in North America, or does it vary by jurisdiction? If the latter, what are the "most standard" translations? Thank you.
99
Quote
Jews can secure eternal salvation without converting to Christianity, senior Catholic theologians say in a report published Thursday, in the latest refinement of their stance on a vexed theological issue.

Addressing a question that has long blighted relations between the two faiths, the report also unequivocally states that the Church should not actively seek to convert Jews to Christianity, echoing the stance outlined by former Pope Benedict XVI in a 2011 book.

The report, drawn up by the Church’s “Commission for religious relations with the Jews,” goes further than Benedict however in effectively affirming that Jews can be saved independently of Christ.

“Although Jews cannot believe in Jesus Christ as the universal redeemer, they have a part in salvation, because the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable,” the report concludes, according to a summary released to the media.

http://www.jewsnews.co.il/2016/02/01/vatican-jews-dont-need-jesus-to-be-saved.html

Nobody need faith to be saved, according to the Bible we must not seduce people because of the our faith, so our faith to be our own for us. If they have the God's law in their hearts and not making mortal sins they will be saved and if they are less sinning they will believe (God will put the faith in their hearts) and they can become saints. What about if they believe in God, go to church but make mortal sins, they can't be saved in this situation, but they will go to hell. But do the Jews have saints? The only saints they have are the saints from the old testament which talked about Christ (the prophets). But I think there is predictions that the Jews will become Christians before the coming of Christ, it is also say: For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord. Also they pretend to listen to Moses, but Jesus say if they were listening to the Moses they will believe to Him.
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Orthodox-Catholic Discussion / Re: Vatican: Jews don’t need Jesus to be saved
« Last post by WPM on Yesterday at 07:10:58 AM »
The latest opinion trend isn't always so.
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