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81
Religious Topics / Re: Indiana's "Church of Cannabis" growing like a weed
« Last post by Velsigne on Yesterday at 09:28:22 PM »
If I had to find an authoritative ecclesiastical source to tell me whether every little thing I did was morally right or wrong I would be exhausted. It doesn't take long in the Church to acquire a kind of common sense about what is right or wrong. Obviously a person should stay away from mind-altering substances, it's funny that we even have to discuss this stuff.
What's funny is that you think it so obvious.

If there is no authoritative ecclesiastical source prohibiting the recreational use of mind-altering substances, what follows from that?
That the Church hasn't spoken as clearly on the matter as some here claim.
Search for what the saints have to say on another altered state of mind, drunkenness. If that's not good enough for you, I'm sorry that there isn't a saint that speaks out against every kind of drug available from marijuana to black tar heroin, because your line of logic would ask for such a thing.

Wasn't heroin a later day invention?   I think you and Alxandra have good points.  Why would they speak to specifics that may not have existed at the time, but the overall rule covers it. 
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Religious Topics / Re: Indiana's "Church of Cannabis" growing like a weed
« Last post by Alxandra on Yesterday at 09:27:23 PM »
It's very clear to me that it is a sin and I have heard it stated definitively as I've been Orthodox my whole life, perhaps you should ask your spiritual father and he will tell you about it :)

http://www.antiochian.org/Orthodox_Church_Who_What_Where_Why/Where_Can_You_Hide.htm

http://www.antiochian.org/alcohol_and_drug_abuse

You seem to be conflating use with abuse. ::)

The links do discuss drug abuse but also recreational use, which Orthodoxy still considers abuse,
You've not established that Orthodoxy makes the connection you do between recreational use and abuse. The two articles you posted represent the opinions of a couple of priests and maybe one jurisdiction, but I don't take them as necessarily representing the mind of the Church on the matter.

and it is not compatible with true Christian life and struggle towards Christ.
On what grounds do you say this of the recreational use of pot? So far I've found your answers most unsatisfactory.

I'll ask you the same question I've asked a few other people here (on another thread). Is the smoking of marijuana even once and without the intent to get high a sin? Why or why not?

It is a sin but I don't think it is obvious because these issues are unfortunately not clear to modern Christians and get blurred. To Christ and Orthodoxy however, these issues are very clear and the path to salvation is narrow. I've learned from Orthodoxy that it is very clearly a sin, as it separates us from the Holy Spirit. Just as drunkenness does, just as a spirit of idle talk and gossip does, just as perverse thoughts do, and anything of the evil spirit.

I encourage you to ask your spiritual father about it as they are more wise than us :) It is important that we seek Christ's Truth with all our heart, not our own false ideas and excuses for sin.
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Religious Topics / Re: Indiana's "Church of Cannabis" growing like a weed
« Last post by Mor Ephrem on Yesterday at 09:22:09 PM »
If I had to find an authoritative ecclesiastical source to tell me whether every little thing I did was morally right or wrong I would be exhausted. It doesn't take long in the Church to acquire a kind of common sense about what is right or wrong. Obviously a person should stay away from mind-altering substances, it's funny that we even have to discuss this stuff.
What's funny is that you think it so obvious.

If there is no authoritative ecclesiastical source prohibiting the recreational use of mind-altering substances, what follows from that?
That the Church hasn't spoken as clearly on the matter as some here claim.

What is the Church?  And how does it speak? 
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Religious Topics / Re: Indiana's "Church of Cannabis" growing like a weed
« Last post by Antonis on Yesterday at 09:18:04 PM »
If I had to find an authoritative ecclesiastical source to tell me whether every little thing I did was morally right or wrong I would be exhausted. It doesn't take long in the Church to acquire a kind of common sense about what is right or wrong. Obviously a person should stay away from mind-altering substances, it's funny that we even have to discuss this stuff.
What's funny is that you think it so obvious.

If there is no authoritative ecclesiastical source prohibiting the recreational use of mind-altering substances, what follows from that?
That the Church hasn't spoken as clearly on the matter as some here claim.
Search for what the saints have to say on another altered state of mind, drunkenness. If that's not good enough for you, I'm sorry that there isn't a saint that speaks out against every kind of drug available from marijuana to black tar heroin, because your line of logic would ask for such a thing.

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Religious Topics / Re: Indiana's "Church of Cannabis" growing like a weed
« Last post by Velsigne on Yesterday at 09:15:22 PM »
If I had to find an authoritative ecclesiastical source to tell me whether every little thing I did was morally right or wrong I would be exhausted. It doesn't take long in the Church to acquire a kind of common sense about what is right or wrong. Obviously a person should stay away from mind-altering substances, it's funny that we even have to discuss this stuff.
What's funny is that you think it so obvious.

If there is no authoritative ecclesiastical source prohibiting the recreational use of mind-altering substances, what follows from that?
That the Church hasn't spoken as clearly on the matter as some here claim.

Isn't it a matter of silence on the topic because it hasn't been an issue in the past?
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Religious Topics / Re: Indiana's "Church of Cannabis" growing like a weed
« Last post by Antonis on Yesterday at 09:14:05 PM »
If I had to find an authoritative ecclesiastical source to tell me whether every little thing I did was morally right or wrong I would be exhausted. It doesn't take long in the Church to acquire a kind of common sense about what is right or wrong. Obviously a person should stay away from mind-altering substances, it's funny that we even have to discuss this stuff.
What's funny is that you think it so obvious.
Pete,

You can do whatever you want. Consult your spiritual father, or you can do what many people do (wrongly) and ask multiple priests until you find one that agrees with what you think. It's your spiritual life, though. Find a saint that partook of substances that put them in an altered state of consciousness and get back to me. As I said, the answer to this topic is clear, if you want to do whatever action you can't find condemned by an "authoritative source" (good luck getting people to agree on what is "authoritative" anyway), go ahead, but you are deceiving yourself and you will sense it.
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Religious Topics / Re: Indiana's "Church of Cannabis" growing like a weed
« Last post by Alxandra on Yesterday at 09:13:16 PM »
If I had to find an authoritative ecclesiastical source to tell me whether every little thing I did was morally right or wrong I would be exhausted. It doesn't take long in the Church to acquire a kind of common sense about what is right or wrong. Obviously a person should stay away from mind-altering substances, it's funny that we even have to discuss this stuff.

Source?

I can't smoke pot anyway, even if I wanted to. Stupid asthma.
Kelly, if you are interested in the topic for spiritual purposes, I recommend searching for what the fathers have to say on drunkenness, which should provide you with what you want.
+1
Also, In Galatians 5:20, St. Paul talks about “works of the flesh” which are various forms of sin. One of them was sorcery which had a different meaning than it does today. Sorcery which meant pharmakeia (φαρμακεια), was the practice of using mind-altering substances to reach spiritual or physical gratification.
88
If I had to find an authoritative ecclesiastical source to tell me whether every little thing I did was morally right or wrong I would be exhausted. It doesn't take long in the Church to acquire a kind of common sense about what is right or wrong. Obviously a person should stay away from mind-altering substances, it's funny that we even have to discuss this stuff.
What's funny is that you think it so obvious.

If there is no authoritative ecclesiastical source prohibiting the recreational use of mind-altering substances, what follows from that?
That the Church hasn't spoken as clearly on the matter as some here claim.
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Religious Topics / Re: Indiana's "Church of Cannabis" growing like a weed
« Last post by Velsigne on Yesterday at 09:12:17 PM »
A person can occasionally drink a small amount and not be drunk.

A person likely cannot occasionally smoke weed and not get high to the level of impairment. 

If they were a regular, chronic and dependent user and had developed tolerance, maybe they could just smoke enough to get mildly stoned, but given the greater concentration of the newer strains of high grade marijuana on the market its not certain how high they will get unless they know the grower.  It's not like the government forces growers to properly package and apply labels stating THC levels. 

I know a lot of pot smokers and I never have heard, 'I know just the right amount to use so I don't get stoned."

 

Then there are the sick who use it for medicine to treat pain, epilepsy, nausea from chemo, etc. 

I think it's better not to judge what others do as suggested in Matthew CH 7 because I'm probably slated to be the least of all, but for me where I am at, thank God, I don't have any use for it.   

I do eat hemp powder on my cereal in the morning for the omega-3 and protein content though. 

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It's very clear to me that it is a sin and I have heard it stated definitively as I've been Orthodox my whole life, perhaps you should ask your spiritual father and he will tell you about it :)

http://www.antiochian.org/Orthodox_Church_Who_What_Where_Why/Where_Can_You_Hide.htm

http://www.antiochian.org/alcohol_and_drug_abuse

You seem to be conflating use with abuse. ::)

The links do discuss drug abuse but also recreational use, which Orthodoxy still considers abuse,
You've not established that Orthodoxy makes the connection you do between recreational use and abuse. The two articles you posted represent the opinions of a couple of priests and maybe one jurisdiction, but I don't take them as necessarily representing the mind of the Church on the matter.

and it is not compatible with true Christian life and struggle towards Christ.
On what grounds do you say this of the recreational use of pot? So far I've found your answers most unsatisfactory.

I'll ask you the same question I've asked a few other people here (on another thread). Is the smoking of marijuana even once and without the intent to get high a sin? Why or why not?
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