Recent Posts

Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 »
Catechism of the Catholic Church: 

Wounds to unity

817 In fact, "in this one and only Church of God from its very beginnings there arose certain rifts, which the Apostle strongly censures as damnable. But in subsequent centuries much more serious dissensions appeared and large communities became separated from full communion with the Catholic Church - for which, often enough, men of both sides were to blame." The ruptures that wound the unity of Christ's Body - here we must distinguish heresy, apostasy, and schism - do not occur without human sin:

    Where there are sins, there are also divisions, schisms, heresies, and disputes. Where there is virtue, however, there also are harmony and unity, from which arise the one heart and one soul of all believers.

818 "However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church."

819 "Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth" are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: "the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements." Christ's Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him, and are in themselves calls to "Catholic unity."

Toward unity

820 "Christ bestowed unity on his Church from the beginning. This unity, we believe, subsists in the Catholic Church as something she can never lose, and we hope that it will continue to increase until the end of time." Christ always gives his Church the gift of unity, but the Church must always pray and work to maintain, reinforce, and perfect the unity that Christ wills for her. This is why Jesus himself prayed at the hour of his Passion, and does not cease praying to his Father, for the unity of his disciples: "That they may all be one. As you, Father, are in me and I am in you, may they also be one in us, . . . so that the world may know that you have sent me."The desire to recover the unity of all Christians is a gift of Christ and a call of the Holy Spirit.

821 Certain things are required in order to respond adequately to this call:

- a permanent renewal of the Church in greater fidelity to her vocation; such renewal is the driving-force of the movement toward unity;

- conversion of heart as the faithful "try to live holier lives according to the Gospel";for it is the unfaithfulness of the members to Christ's gift which causes divisions;

- prayer in common, because "change of heart and holiness of life, along with public and private prayer for the unity of Christians, should be regarded as the soul of the whole ecumenical movement, and merits the name 'spiritual ecumenism;"'

- fraternal knowledge of each other;

- ecumenical formation of the faithful and especially of priests;

- dialogue among theologians and meetings among Christians of the different churches and communities;

- collaboration among Christians in various areas of service to mankind. "Human service" is the idiomatic phrase.

How do those answers justify conversions?

If those thoughts were among what St. Gregory called idle thoughts, why bother converting from Rome to Orthodoxy or vice-versa if it doesn't matter?

There are only three possibilities:

1) The Papacy and submission to it is an integral part of being Christian (as per Unan Sanctam) and refusing it is a serious hindrance to our salvation; - Traditional Roman position;

2) The Papacy and submission to it is *not* part of being Christian and therefore Unan Sanctam and 2nd millenium Roman ecclesiology is a heresy and a scandal; - Traditional Orthodox position;

3) Eclesiomorphology related to the universal level of the Church does not impact the life of common Christians and is irrelevant to our salvation - traditional Protestant position, qualified by ecumenical innovations that consider the lack of unity in Christendom a "scandal" but also that either we are all right in what matters but disagree only on irrelevant hermetic theories or that everybody is wrong to a certain degree and full unity is something that if it was ever realized, was lost and should be recovered;

There is no fourth option regarding this issue in particular.

And RaphaCam, your doubt acknowledges a true tension. Either they or us are wrong. There is no middleground and I don't think ignoring the issue is profitable at all.

Firm your faith with prayer, fasting and studies.

Even Rome admitts that their church is not the same from the 2nd millenium on. The real issue is if it is a legitimate change or a heretical one.

Use the criteria of St. Vincent de Lerins that the Catholic faith is the one believed by all, in all places and all times.

Rome's changes made her break with their former sister churches all over the world (Antioch, Alexandria, Jerusalem and Constantinople) and with her own past. Only Rome believed in Purgatory, in Papacy and all those differences you mentioned. Nobody around her at the same time or even herself before believed that.

Post middle-ages Rome is an entirely different church from the truly universal Orthodox Catholic Church that still exists today with the same phronema and the same ethos. Post-Trent Church is even more different and post-Vatican II Roman church manages to be an entirely different faith in all but the words used.
Convert Issues / Re: Patron Saint
« Last post by Iconodule on Yesterday at 03:28:48 PM »
If you're baptized as an infant, your parents or sponsors will pick it for you typically. It may or may not be related to the day on which you're born. If you enter the church as an adult, you can usually pick your own.
^While I disagree with you I am pleasantly suprised to see such a charitable post in This place is mostly quite an ugly place.
Foreign Languages Forum / Re: "LORD, HAVE MERCY" in your languages
« Last post by Alveus Lacuna on Yesterday at 03:15:21 PM »

Doesn't that mean "the name"?

Is there is proper Hebrew word for Lord?
Convert Issues / Patron Saint
« Last post by seekeroftruth777 on Yesterday at 03:01:42 PM »
How do we get our patron saint? I'll just leave it at that.
Religious Topics / Re: Fr. Georges Massouh: Holy War Isn't Holy
« Last post by seekeroftruth777 on Yesterday at 02:56:58 PM »
I try not to ask so that I do not lead a poster into temptation.  :P (especially when I feel the answer might not be worth it)

good advice  :)
Prayer Forum / Re: Dad in the hospital
« Last post by minasoliman on Yesterday at 02:54:15 PM »
Glory be to God.

Lord, have mercy
Religious Topics / Re: Fr. Georges Massouh: Holy War Isn't Holy
« Last post by minasoliman on Yesterday at 02:51:23 PM »
I try not to ask so that I do not lead a poster into temptation.  :P (especially when I feel the answer might not be worth it)
Other Topics / Re: W.A.G.-word association game
« Last post by HaydenTE on Yesterday at 02:46:19 PM »
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 »