Recent Posts

Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 »
61
Other Topics / Re: Picture of the Day
« Last post by juliogb on Today at 07:14:48 AM »
That looks a bit like this case ;D


Yeah, it's similar, very nice :) Thx for sharing :)



Business



I think that is a SJW fanfic, here in Brazil is quite common, leftist spread these fantasies over the internet.
62
Orthodox-Catholic Discussion / Re: On marrying a second wife
« Last post by Arachne on Today at 06:42:15 AM »
I suspect that most people, of either sex, would be extremely wary of someone who has buried three spouses. ;D
Hey, these things happen. ;)

'Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action.'--Ian Fleming

In short: 'Aw hell no!' 8)
I agree, but i'm just saying it's possible, tis all.

So why not a fourth marriage, hell, you already allowed three?

As I said further up, we believe in taking a hint. Especially if all three marriages failed for the same reason (which can make one practically unmarriageable anyway).
Sooo.......that's it? Taking a hint? That's all you have for explaining away the three mulligan rule?

That's not very reassuring.

I've got a hint for you............one divorce is one too many.


Now an invalid marriage, that's another story.

There's nothing to 'explain away'. The Church applies economia, a concession to human weakness, but thata does not extend forever. Permission to remarry is not always granted, and, in our understanding, a marriage is not invalidated by one or both parties' inability or unwillingness to live up to its demands. Why is your side so firmly against admitting failure?

Annulments exist in all apostolic churches. It's is not an exclusively Roman practice. The EO and OO have annulments too

Not as a substitute for divorce, though. 'Marriage went bad' and 'marriage never existed' are different things. After all, the sticking point is not the separation itself, it's the chance of remarriage afterwards.
63
Orthodox-Catholic Discussion / Re: On marrying a second wife
« Last post by Wandile on Today at 06:40:15 AM »
I suspect that most people, of either sex, would be extremely wary of someone who has buried three spouses. ;D
Hey, these things happen. ;)

'Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action.'--Ian Fleming

In short: 'Aw hell no!' 8)
I agree, but i'm just saying it's possible, tis all.

So why not a fourth marriage, hell, you already allowed three?

As I said further up, we believe in taking a hint. Especially if all three marriages failed for the same reason (which can make one practically unmarriageable anyway).
Sooo.......that's it? Taking a hint? That's all you have for explaining away the three mulligan rule?

That's not very reassuring.

I've got a hint for you............one divorce is one too many.


Now an invalid marriage, that's another story.

There's nothing to 'explain away'. The Church applies economia, a concession to human weakness, but thata does not extend forever. Permission to remarry is not always granted, and, in our understanding, a marriage is not invalidated by one or both parties' inability or unwillingness to live up to its demands. Why is your side so firmly against admitting failure?

Annulments exist in all apostolic churches. It's is not an exclusively Roman practice. The EO and OO have annulments too
64
and it is called the stole of judgement

LOL. "Judge of the Universe" in itself sounds like some Marvel superhero and this in even better. I wonder when he's going to fly to Bulgaria and Georgia to punish the local disobedient patriarchs.

Only on orders of Professor C*.

*Constantinople
65
and it is called the stole of judgement

LOL. "Judge of the Universe" in itself sounds like some Marvel superhero and this in even better. I wonder when he's going to fly to Bulgaria and Georgia to punish the local disobedient patriarchs.
66
Prayer Forum / Re: an important prayer please :)
« Last post by Olivia on Today at 05:55:15 AM »
Kyrie Eleison
67
Other Topics / Re: W.A.G.-word association game
« Last post by Olivia on Today at 05:43:14 AM »
Accidental
68
Orthodox-Catholic Discussion / Re: On marrying a second wife
« Last post by Arachne on Today at 05:03:45 AM »
I suspect that most people, of either sex, would be extremely wary of someone who has buried three spouses. ;D
Hey, these things happen. ;)

'Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action.'--Ian Fleming

In short: 'Aw hell no!' 8)
I agree, but i'm just saying it's possible, tis all.

So why not a fourth marriage, hell, you already allowed three?

As I said further up, we believe in taking a hint. Especially if all three marriages failed for the same reason (which can make one practically unmarriageable anyway).
Sooo.......that's it? Taking a hint? That's all you have for explaining away the three mulligan rule?

That's not very reassuring.

I've got a hint for you............one divorce is one too many.


Now an invalid marriage, that's another story.

There's nothing to 'explain away'. The Church applies economia, a concession to human weakness, but thata does not extend forever. Permission to remarry is not always granted, and, in our understanding, a marriage is not invalidated by one or both parties' inability or unwillingness to live up to its demands. Why is your side so firmly against admitting failure?
69
Orthodox-Catholic Discussion / Re: On marrying a second wife
« Last post by Wandile on Today at 03:44:05 AM »
If three of your spouses really did die for one reason or another, why in the world would you not be permitted to marry again?

Isn't marriage indissoluble?
You better go ask your "pope" that pne.

Nice try, but we're talking about your religion.  If marriage is as indissoluble as you say, then why can someone attempt marriage again if their spouse dies?

Marriage ends at death of one or both spouses. The fathers and scripture have taught explicitly on this.

Where?

St. Ambrose of Milan

"No one is permitted to know a woman other than his wife. The marital right is given you for this reason: lest you fall into the snare and sin with a strange woman. "If you are bound to a wife, do not seek a divorce"; for you are not permitted, while your wife lives, to marry another"
 (Abraham 1:7:59 )

St Jerome

"Wherever there is fornication and a suspicion of fornication a wife is freely dismissed. Because it is always possible that someone may calumniate the innocent and, for the sake of a second joining in marriage, act in criminal fashion against the first, it is commanded that when the first wife is dismissed a second may not be taken while the first lives"
(Commentaries on Matthew 3:19:9).

Pope Innocent I [A.D. 408]

"The practice is observed by all of regarding as an adulteress a woman who marries a second time while her husband yet lives, and permission to do penance is not granted her until one of them is dead"
(Letters 2:13:15 )

Origen

"Just as a woman is an adulteress, even though she seem to be married to a man, while a former husband yet lives, so also the man who seems to marry her who has been divorced does not marry her, but, according to the declaration of our Savior, he commits adultery with her"
(Commentaries on Matthew 14:24 [A.D. 248])

Council of Elvira

"Likewise, a woman of the faith who has left an adulterous husband of the faith and marries another, her marrying in this manner is prohibited. If she has so married, she may not receive Communion—unless he that she has left has since departed from this world"
 (Canon 9).

St Agustine

"A woman begins to be the wife of no later husband unless she has ceased to be the wife of a former one. She will cease to be the wife of a former one, however, if that husband should die, not if he commit fornication. A spouse, therefore, is lawfully dismissed for cause of fornication; but the bond of chastity remains. That is why a man is guilty of adultery if he marries a woman who has been dismissed even for this very reason of fornication”

Council of Aries (314)

"As regards those who find their wives to be guilty of adultery, and who being Christian are, though young men, forbidden to marry, we decree that, so far as may be, counsel be given them not to take other wives, while their own, though guilty of adultery, are yet living."
(canon 10)

None of those texts say that marriage "ends" with the death of a spouse, they merely describe the circumstances under which they allow a person to marry again.

Most explicitly:

St Augustine

"She will cease to be the wife of a former one, however, if that husband should die, not if he commit fornication"

The emphasis on "living spouse" is to show that even though you are separated, a sacramental marriage still persists. Hence to marry while your sacramental marriage still exists is adultery (the fathers and scripture call such a person an adulterer/adulterous). It's isn't adultery when your spouse is dead i.e. the sacramental marriage is over.
70
Orthodox-Catholic Discussion / Re: On marrying a second wife
« Last post by Seekingtrue on Today at 03:43:04 AM »
Quote
Yeah, talk to the elderly or read biographies to find out how lovely it was to be trapped with an abusive spouse, or to be the child of an abusive parent and the mother could only sigh and let the abuse continue.
I don't know the exact numbers, but I would gather you are talking about a minimal fraction of most marriages "back in the day". At any rate, men and women were held to a higher standard years ago because both more or less knew their role and family was of the utmost importance, especially over your own personal feelings in an "abusive" (that could mean just about anything these days) relationship. Having said this, the Church was always compassionate and charitable to any spouse who was indeed being abused and possibly entwined in an invalid mariage to being with, hence they should seek out advice and look to a marriage tribunal to investigate the validity of their marriage under the proper guidlines, which these days almost no one does, they just go and seek civil divorce and separate from the Church altogether.

Do you actually believe this?  I can tell you stories of priests who revealed the contents of one spouse's confession to the other spouse in order to keep them in the marriage via holy blackmail so that in-laws didn't have to suffer or siblings could get married without the black cloud of a soiled reputation, etc., and I could tell you of the bishops who refused to discipline said priests but rather enabled them.  And that's not all.  And if these things happen in the 21st century, I'm sure they've happened before when people were even more focused on the idea of "family" as of "the utmost importance" even to the point where "it is expedient for you that one man spouse should die for you, and that the whole nation family should not perish". 

You're so American you can't understand how things were "back in the day" except through some idealised Andy Warholesque frame of reference.  The way things often happen in traditional cultures today are how they happened even in your own culture, both for the better and for the worse.  And "the Church" isn't/wasn't always helpful.   
There's been bad priests and bad bishops in the Church since the beginning (ever heard of Judas Iscariot?). If that story is indeed true and that's a big "if", the injured spouse should've went over the bishop's head to seek justice . Or keep going until she/he did. BTW, did the confessor priest  admit to this violation of his vows? Or was this in some way assumed by one party that felt his/her trust had been violated . I've never heard of a priest breaking confidentiality from a confession, this is a serious and grave matter in the Church which would lead  to latae sententiae (automatic excommunication), only the pope himself could lift this excommunication. I have serious doubts that not only the priest would violate the Seal of Confession, but his bishop as well. They both would be in big trouble, not too mention that what your describing is absolutley, strictly condemned by the Catholic Church, so it's a poor example of a "story" which one would believe the Church is full of corruption.


And I don't know what me being "so American" has do to with anything. I actually completely reject Americanism, like any good traditional Roman Catholic would or should.  As for the Church having some bad apples, well, the Church has always been full of sinners, men are fallen creatures, but the Church herself , the Bride of Christ, is Holy and without blemish.
you haven't heard a priest breaking confidentiality..ask me then.A priest I know had 'confessed'to me secrets of his spiritual child..Church is still flesh you know but since we are not saints either..God forgive us all
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 »