Recent Posts

Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 »
61
Faith Issues / Re: Indulgence
« Last post by LenInSebastopol on Yesterday at 07:50:23 PM »
I know myself, now that Pascha is over and we have feasted, I can "rationalize" eating again with the "it's an indulgence but what the heck, it is a feast and I am worth it".
All is true in one sense, and ti's an indulgence as well. Continuing down that path dulls all kinds of things.
The actions may not be good for my spiritual life as well as the physical one, whether they be gluttony, lust, anger, and other sins, they all involve a justification of one's self, also known as Pride.
You are worthy in the Eye of God, as He made you and loves you. You are not worthy of the sins you desire for yourself because of His Love.
Can you explain why indulgence can be a sin? Is indulgence a sin, is it always a sin?
Naw, I probably can't explain it well enough as to "why".
The word "indulgence" means there is an activity or state of being that one is IN, or involved in.
One indulges in something, like play or eating or some activity, no?
As moderation is a virtue or goal for us to practice, indulgence could be considered a violation of such.
One can indulgence in something that is already a sin.
Also one can indulge in the love and / or joy of Christ and finding a sin in such would be difficulty, no?
If you have a specific thing in mind, put it out on the table.  Hope this helps a little.
62
Cain offered God vegetables, and it wasn't what He wanted. It didn't count.
Are you open to the idea that the problem was not the species of the offering  (veggies vs. meat) but rather the quality of the offering (Abel offered first fruits of the first fruits, Cain did not)?

The analogy is apt either way  ;)
Not quite. Rock has its firstfruits, Christian rock bands aren't it.
That was my point
63
Liturgy / Re: Four Liturgical Questions for Antiochian and/or SVS-educated clergy
« Last post by Aram on Yesterday at 07:41:26 PM »
1. Armenian seminarians take their liturgical music and other practicum courses from St. Nersess faculty at their own campus, not at St. Vlad's. The courses they take at SVS are more of the general, not necessarily Armenian-specific types. It's a hybrid program--students shuttle back and forth between the two campuses.
64
... go to Third Day ... worship concerts background


Once in my youthful folly I attended a Third Day concert with my friends, who were super psyched. It was, hands down, the most boring show I've ever attended, and I once saw the band that provided the rap backing for that one Evanescence song. If the Devil's plan was to destroy worship through rock music, he decided to do it in a very sneaky way — instead of making it openly irreverent, he just took the joy out of it.

Someone has a picture of me sleeping during that show. It was a pity, because the way it was hyped I was convinced it was going to be an another-level experience.

Anyway, coming around to the OP: I'm not sure something alien to an experience can be defined against it. Can you listen to it? Sure. Should you? Dunno. I sometimes still listen to Rich Mullins.

I think Nick's answer here:

But because liturgical practice gathers together the works of generations, it would have to slowly enter, and then fit in as part of the whole musical tradition. That would take time.

Now, we also play extra-liturgical music at feasts, like carols, folk music, etc. If you could somehow have a de-smarmed, quality rock performance, go for it. Although I don't think you'd call it Christian rock at that point.

...is about right in the context of the corporate life of the Church.

About 20 years ago, my foster parents asked if I wanted to attend "Spirit West Coast" with all these rock bands.  I looked into it and thought, uhhhh...no thanks.   ;)

65
Btw, the Capella Romana Greek Liturgy CD w/ Organ (released a couple years ago) is pretty good.  I think the organ could've been a little quieter at times, but overall a nice CD.  With that said though, I would NEVER advocate a parish that doesn't already use an organ to suddenly go out and get one and use it.
66
The problem is not 'good order'


The problem is that you want it to be Your Order, and how You in particular see it.

The problem is good order or the lack of it.

Let's look at this another way.  Should the almost incessant conversations going on between parishioners during the Liturgy continue or should we just stay silent because good order is something to be avoided?


False Analogy

Those who converse during the DL should be quiet, and if told to do so, generally do, particularly if a member of clergy (from readers upwards, tell them). Seeing as the church members are in obedience to that clergy and the Bishop above them.....

What you are suggesting is that the Priest, decide what should be done based on your displeasure or pleasure at how it is. 
Thats putting the Chanter above the Priest.

67
Cain offered God vegetables, and it wasn't what He wanted. It didn't count.
Are you open to the idea that the problem was not the species of the offering  (veggies vs. meat) but rather the quality of the offering (Abel offered first fruits of the first fruits, Cain did not)?

The analogy is apt either way  ;)
Not quite. Rock has its firstfruits, Christian rock bands aren't it.
68
Other Topics / Re: Random Postings
« Last post by LenInSebastopol on Yesterday at 07:02:19 PM »
I dreamed there were crocodiles at the local pond. The kind of dream that lingers. So I have been shaking my head and reminding myself all day that there are no crocodiles in an English park pond.

But have you checked every pond?
 8)

There's a pond about two blocks away from us that has an alligator in it. Apparently the property owners have been feeding it for years. My sister- and brother-in-law, who are building a house on the next parcel, are not pleased.
Read they make good eating, excllent shoes and fine luggage.
Best to you and your sis.
69
Other Topics / Re: OC.net Notable/Edifying Posts
« Last post by minasoliman on Yesterday at 06:59:16 PM »
I also see nothing wrong with using contemporary music, as long as we are worshipping God.

What do you mean by "contemporary music", and what is "worshipping God"? How do you do it, I mean.

By contemporary music, I mean songs in modern-day music styles, such as Rock. I see nothing wrong with praising God for sending His Son Jesus Christ to die for our sins, regardless of music style.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not asking Orthodox parishes to start using rock bands, or anything like that. Nor am I some super-fan of rock. I just don't see how God would view choir as inherently more holy than other music genre.

(I'll preface my answer by saying that I come from a non-denominational, worship rock band, own all the WOW Worship CDs, go to Third Day and Jars of Clay worship concerts background, so this informs my view.)

Fr Giryus pointed out that "worship must be in 'spirit and truth'", OrthodoxWiki says that worship is "faith in action". We know that the liturgy is "the work of the people", and that it is par excellence our worship service. Obligatory Lex orandi, lex credendi. The anaphora starts with:

Quote
Priest: Let us stand aright! Let us stand with fear! Let us attend! That we may offer the Holy Oblation in peace.

The people respond: A mercy of peace! A sacrifice of praise!

The worship that we offer to God has to be pleasing to God- it has to be what He wants, or it's not really worship at all. Cain offered God vegetables, and it wasn't what He wanted. It didn't count. My experience with contemporary Christian worship music is that while it is well-intentioned and definitely comes from a place of wanting to verbally project honor and love for God at Him, it's "you-centered" in that it starts from a place of personal taste/preference- what music speaks to you? What music gets you to that place of an emotional experience? What bands or songs make you feel hyped about it all? I know that there are different musical styles in Orthodoxy for the liturgy and that people have their preferences about which they find more moving or enjoy hearing more, and I don't have an issue with people trying to craft the very best and most beautiful settings to sing/chant our liturgy in. But the liturgy is supposed to call us upwards, to "lay aside all earthly cares, that we may receive the King of all". Whether the choir is out of key or whether the music is lovely or whether it's one old Greek guy crooning, in the liturgy worship happens.

Contemporary Christian worship music is not created from that place. It's designed to be emotionally manipulative because if you don't get something out of it (an emotional experience), worship didn't happen. It's not just about a particular style of music; you can't separate it from its origins or from its creators' assumptions about what worship is. And if you come from that background, those assumptions about what worship is can be really hard to shake. For that reason, I think it can be dangerous- once you are used to "feeling something" when you sing these songs, and then you go to a liturgy where you don't feel some emotional high, you can really struggle. You can wonder what's wrong with you and feel down that you aren't getting more out of liturgy when how you feel really isn't the point at all.

So, if you (general you) want to praise God for sending His Son, the Church has a way for you to do that in a way that God desires for you to do. It isn't about musical style and only musical style, it's about the difference between vegetables and meat.

I hope that makes sense.
70
Cain offered God vegetables, and it wasn't what He wanted. It didn't count.
Are you open to the idea that the problem was not the species of the offering  (veggies vs. meat) but rather the quality of the offering (Abel offered first fruits of the first fruits, Cain did not)?

The analogy is apt either way  ;)
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 »