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51
Oriental Orthodox Discussion / Re: Is it Epiphany or Theophany?
« Last post by wgw on Yesterday at 08:05:16 PM »
Note that the Byzantine Rite hymns only apply to the Eastern Orthodox and Byzantine Catholic churches.  Its a little silly to say the the Oriental Orthodox must refer to the Baptism of our Lord as the Theophany on the basis of hymns which we may or may not use (actually a blow by blow comparison of the details of how we do the Epiphany or Theophany will make for some enjoyable reading for me this afternoon).

For my part I think Theophany is preferrable in the interests of ecumenical reconciliation, in that as a rule, where possible, the Oriental and Eastern Orthodox should try to share a common liturgical terminology in English, and also the feast is signifigant for the appearance, visbly or audibly, of all three members of the Trinity.  At St. Ephraim's Cathedral in Burbank the Baptism of the Lord is depicted with the Holy Spirit descending towards him in the form of the dove, in the frescoes that decorate the altar (which are alas with one exception not really drawn from Syriac aources of iconography).

However I dont think we should be doctrinaire about this.  I still often refer to Pascha as Easter in verbal speech as it frankly sounds better in the English language.  For that matter, I would have no qualms about calling Pentecost Sunday Whitsunday, so as to diatinguish it from the days of the week that follow, and also from the overall liturgical seasons described by the Pentecostarion.  Even within the Eastern Orthodox Church, one of the oldest OCA churches in Alaska is the Cathedral of the Assumption, rather thanof the Dormition, a curious deviation in liturgical language.  I believe that cathedral is in Sitka.  And for whatever reason the Oriental Orthodox liturgical calendars all refer to the event as the Assumption even though our beliefs about what happened are precisely the same as the Eastern Orthodox.
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Other Topics / Re: I wish these people were still posting
« Last post by LBK on Yesterday at 08:02:19 PM »
I miss william. He was the funniest angry little atheist that I've come across in awhile. Then he wrote his histrionic screed against everyone and got banned.

He wasn't banned, he was muted.
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Other Topics / Re: I wish these people were still posting
« Last post by TheTrisagion on Yesterday at 07:54:44 PM »
I miss william. He was the funniest angry little atheist that I've come across in awhile. Then he wrote his histrionic screed against everyone and got banned.
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Oriental Orthodox Discussion / Re: Is it Epiphany or Theophany?
« Last post by Arachne on Yesterday at 07:40:03 PM »
How, exactly, does plural theophanies of one explicitly named person express "the fact that all three persons of the Holy Trinity became manifest on that day"?   

The hymns of the feast answer your question.

Text in English here.
Chanted in Greek here.
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Oriental Orthodox Discussion / Re: Is it Epiphany or Theophany?
« Last post by Salpy on Yesterday at 07:30:48 PM »
I don't think it is appropriate to see an oceanographer's bare knees.


I gather she would be valued for providing information for the feast of the Epiphany Theophany.

FIFY.
Επεφάνης σήμερον τή οικουμένη, καί τό φώς σου Κύριε, εσημειώθη εφ’ ημάς, έν επιγνώσει υμνούντάς σε. Ήλθες εφάνης τό Φώς τό απρόσιτον. (Κοντάκιον Ήχος δ’)

Every Greek menaion and liturgical calendar has this entry for January 6: Τὰ Ἅγια Θεοφάνεια τοῦ Κυρίου ἡμῶν Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ.

English translation, please. :-)

Τὰ Ἅγια Θεοφάνεια τοῦ Κυρίου ἡμῶν Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ. means The Holy Theophany of our Lord, Jesus Christ. Actually, the bolded term is in plural form, expressing the fact that all three persons of the Holy Trinity became manifest on that day, as the festal troparion and other hymns proclaim.

Thanks.  :)
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Oriental Orthodox Discussion / Re: Is it Epiphany or Theophany?
« Last post by LBK on Yesterday at 07:22:51 PM »
I don't think it is appropriate to see an oceanographer's bare knees.


I gather she would be valued for providing information for the feast of the Epiphany Theophany.

FIFY.
Επεφάνης σήμερον τή οικουμένη, καί τό φώς σου Κύριε, εσημειώθη εφ’ ημάς, έν επιγνώσει υμνούντάς σε. Ήλθες εφάνης τό Φώς τό απρόσιτον. (Κοντάκιον Ήχος δ’)

Every Greek menaion and liturgical calendar has this entry for January 6: Τὰ Ἅγια Θεοφάνεια τοῦ Κυρίου ἡμῶν Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ.

English translation, please. :-)

Τὰ Ἅγια Θεοφάνεια τοῦ Κυρίου ἡμῶν Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ. means The Holy Theophany of our Lord, Jesus Christ. Actually, the bolded term is in plural form, expressing the fact that all three persons of the Holy Trinity became manifest on that day, as the festal troparion and other hymns proclaim.

How, exactly, does plural theophanies of one explicitly named person express "the fact that all three persons of the Holy Trinity became manifest on that day"?   

The hymns of the feast answer your question.
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Faith Issues / Re: When making Prosphoron, what type of seal do you prefer?
« Last post by LBK on Yesterday at 07:12:21 PM »
The piece of dough on which the seal is stamped which is then placed on top of the loaf must have extra flour kneaded into it to make it more dense for the seal imprint to be stable. What the stamp is made of makes little difference.
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Faith Issues / Re: When making Prosphoron, what type of seal do you prefer?
« Last post by marigold on Yesterday at 06:53:20 PM »
I use both plastic and wood.

Wooden seals are easier to remove from the dough. Wood has a good, natural feel.

My plastic seal leaves a much better imprint on the dough, but the top of the dough must be floured heavily so it does not stick to the seal.

Tip: If the dough sticks to your plastic seal despite being heavily floured, don't force it off. Try again after 15 minutes. Last week it took 45 minutes before I could coax the seal off. The Prosphoron turned out fine.

Here is information about Saints Spyridon and Nicodemus, the Holy Prosphora-Bakers:  http://orthodoxwiki.org/Spyridon_and_Nicodemus,_the_Prosphora_Bakers_of_the_Kiev_Near_Caves
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Orthodox-Protestant Discussion / Re: formerly orthodox?
« Last post by William T on Yesterday at 06:43:17 PM »

I don't know if you can shop around where you are, but pastoral care differs a lot among parishes.

I can confirm that, as I was received into the church while my relationship was, well, a lot less closer to marriage than Daedalus' is now, and the priest knew that. I remember him saying, specifically, "One thing we don't want to do is make it hard for people to enter the church." There was of course an expectation that I would regularize my relationship in the near future, which I did, but the hardheartedness that Daedalus is experiencing was not there.

I think the posters here who continue to vigorously accuse Daedalus and defend the obstinacy of this priest are acting in a pharisaical manner.

I agree with this sentiment with some qualifications.

1) unfortunately this is the internet, so both the story and the priest/ situation have to be abstracted out a little bit.

 The story has to be taken in good faith (no need to doubt it or find  ulterior motives).  But there is nothing inherently wrong with taking the side of the one church in question, because that judgment has to be taken in good faith also. 

Taking the side of the opposing view (which took place with an Orthodox parish, so that makes it an easier side to take) is a good tool to help with clarification.

2) with the need that this has to be abstract (due to the limitations of the internet) in mind the topic comes off like this:

"Here is my side of a story, here is a long list of justifications, you people are orthodox, an Orthodox priest rejected my request, satisfy my needs or orthodoxy is not for me and it's theology is wrong (or Pharisee like, or fundamentalist, or conservative, or whatever the "bad word" is in this discussion). And every time you say I'm doing something wrong I'm going to provide more justifications. Go!"

If that's the extreme uncharitable interpretation, that's a tough, if not impossible nut to crack.  The internet is already limiting, and I think most practical advice that can be given, has.  (Write the bishop, try another parish out, looking up and verify theology, laws and precedents, etc)

It's easy enough to give someone your side if a story and make it sympathetic.  It's easy enough to cater to those sympathies...but the author did present a dichotomy, and there is nothing wrong with giving both sides the benefit of the doubt while trying to take the side of the opposition.

3) One again though,.if you just look at the nuts and bolts of what's being said, I'm a bit confused why there is a big issue with the request for marriage   I get there is little reason to disobey civil authority on marriage (or anything else) unless you have to, but this seems like a good case where that could be done.  I don't think the state would care all too much anyway.  And as has been stated, the state is actually secondary to these kids if concerns anyway.  If the state made it very difficult to get buried instead of cremated, I would hope the Church community would still find ways to make getting buried accessible, rather than get angry with people because they didn't get buried more often.

Anyone who is cheering the for that one priest who won't accept civil marriages because of civil gay marriage, and get mad at the OP I'm a bit confused of what their position is.

 3) I can say that the attitudes expressed by the parish in question do not seem to reflect the attitudes of the people in the Church that I've come across and something seems off.
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Orthodox-Other Christian Discussion / Re: Baphomet
« Last post by biro on Yesterday at 06:29:37 PM »
Does anyone else suspect that andrew is, in fact, a 50-something suburban mom with shoulder-lenght hair?

Maybe a grandma. :(
Just like you, then;)

I've never had kids, so, no.
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