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Other Topics / Re: W.A.G.-word association game
« Last post by hecma925 on Today at 01:32:34 AM »
5.56
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Orthodox-Other Christian Discussion / Re: Other churches
« Last post by hecma925 on Today at 01:32:04 AM »
What do you mean by visit?

Touring their buildings and grounds?  Attending and observing a service?  Worshiping and praying with their members?
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Other Topics / Re: W.A.G.-word association game
« Last post by PeterTheAleut on Today at 01:31:00 AM »
Kentucky Wildcats
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Other Topics / Re: W.A.G.-word association game
« Last post by hecma925 on Today at 01:23:08 AM »
instructions
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Non-Religious Topics / Re: Indiana Boycott, BUYcott or neither?
« Last post by hecma925 on Today at 01:19:44 AM »
I've heard of this so-called Indiana, a monstrous void.  I don't care and I don't plan on visiting Indiana anytime in the near future.  So de facto boycott, maybe?
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Religious Topics / Re: Women’s Headcoverings
« Last post by orthonorm on Today at 01:18:41 AM »
I think we need to be careful to not make headcoverings into a Tradition instead of a tradition.

I don't know.  I think you would be hard pressed to find a "tradition" that was maintained pretty much universally in Christendom (not just Orthodoxy) for nineteen centuries and change, explicitly authorised in (NT) Scripture against those with divergent practices, etc. and was still relegated merely to the level of "tradition" and not "Tradition".  There's more support for headcoverings than there is for prohibiting menstruating women from communing. 

But if you're right in your warning above (and it's not like I would mind your being right on this matter), I can't help thinking that there's a whole bunch of stuff in Scripture I can safely ignore by labeling it "tradition".

Why does that thought concern you? I am not sure what has remained constant from Christ's time till now in any Xian body odox or not. Christ crucified seems to be one. Belief in the Ressurection seems to be another. I think nearl every article of faith and practice has undergone some sorta of change, appearence, disappearence, etc.

I think the continuity of faith is there but it is in virtue of change, if you can think of more and likely there are, but I can't imagine many.

Nearly everything liturgical has changed, fundamental understandings were fought over (Trinity), schisms which tore apart lives are said to be mere differences in language.

But this I don't see as a problem and in fact a promise of a faith delivered unto the Saints, we just haven't encountered the last Saint to make complete our perfect understanding of the faith.

Women's headcovering of all things seems completely a matter of cultural practice which caused a problem for one of St. Paul's communities and unlike himself he came up with the worst argument in the Pauline corpus to settle it. I've yet to read any interpretation that doesn't seem either completely contrived or ridiculous regarding the otherwise genius insights of St. Paul.

I've asked to be disabused of this here before and have found nothing to make sense of his argument.

But to the lay people born into such practices, I see no reason to create scandal by either arguing against it, just as forcing those not born into the practice would equally odd.

St. Paul's word on the weak versus the strong makes sense here. Those who have enough faith to understand that headcovering have no bearing on the salvation of anyone or the world can bear the weakness of those who must cleave to such articles of piety.

That is the answer that seems to make sense to me when it comes to all things. A perfect blueprint for getting along.

As I said before, the ban on women priests isn't the only arbitrary-seeming impediment to the priesthood. There are bans on eunuchs, or men who have been mutilated in some way; men who are divorced, or who have committed fornication, even if they've confessed and did penance; men who have shed blood, even involuntarily. The list goes on. I think this all has to be tied to the symbolic importance of the priesthood; even the impediments that are linked to certain sins are hard to understand if we are serious about God rejoicing more over the repentance of one sinner than over the 99 who never sinned.

If you don't like arguments from symbolism and wish we had a more rational system for picking candidates, I can get that, but then again, if you don't like symbolism, Orthodoxy's maybe not your thing.

It's not a symbol I have a problem with it is with reducing an argument to mere allegory.

There is a difference between the symbolic and the allegorical and the symbolical and the merely allegorical.

OK. I suppose I don't completely understand the distinction you're trying to make. Could you elaborate?

To put this I the length of a post I am willing to tap out.

The symbolic is the order of understanding in which we all find ourselves. Nothing we are capable of thinking, doing, understanding, etc is somehow outside the symbolic order.

Within the symbolic order we engage in many practices, one of which is illustrating ideas via the use of a figure of speech called the allegory.

While perhaps useful for illustration, it rarely does much more than that. The allegorical is not productive as such, it doesn't typically increase our capacity to act and work per se, but rather shores up certainties of what we think we know but are unable to truly express, obscures, or as mentioned before just illustrates truths we think we know, a reactionary tact.

What I am interested in, is something some within the symbolic order, some work done which demonstrates clearly women are absolutely incapable of being Priests. Resting that discussion entirely upon a figure of speech which almost always serves only to obscure or maintain what everyone thinks they already know without being to articulate it will not serve. Nor should it.

As before, should it be raised to the level of schism, no. But the only people doing real work on this issue are those who argue for it, while not suggesting a break in communion over it.
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Yes, it'd be convenient to forget all genocides.
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Prayer Forum / Re: My father passed away this evening
« Last post by Justin Kissel on Today at 01:16:24 AM »
Memory eternal!
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Prayer Forum / Re: My father passed away this evening
« Last post by Gebre Menfes Kidus on Today at 01:12:30 AM »
So sorry my dear brother. May God comfort you and your family. And may your father's dear memory be eternal! +++


Selam
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