As a new Catholic 30 years ago I had this conversation with a seminarian, a relatively older gentleman with a theological background (Assemblies of God to Episcopal monk and seminarian to Catholic postulant in a religious order): I thought the "Uniates" were the natural bridge for dialogue with the Orthodox, the perfect Catholic "interface" with you guys, and he set me straight right quick. "Oh, they HATE the Uniates! They think they're turncoats." So it would be with a Uniate Pope. Some Orthodox would love it. Some would hate it. So no net difference in our relations.
Mr. Podkarpatska, observing his own background (Greek Catholic in Slovakia), noted that Orthodox, and Roman Rite Catholics, who KNOW the Uniates personally don't hate them. Roman Rite Slovaks knew and thus understood his grandparents; the Roman Riters DIDN'T understand them in America, which caused splits to Orthodoxy. Most Greeks and Russians have never met a Uniate, thus...
I still say the Greek Catholics deserve a place at the table of ecumenical dialogue. The Russians still use them as an excuse not to talk, or for the patriarch not to meet the Pope, but that's a whole other can of worms, as Mr. Podkarpatska agrees: under the Soviets they committed crimes against the Ukrainian Catholics, stealing their churches and otherwise persecuting them, setting back Catholic/Orthodox relations (the Ukrainian Catholics I knew 30 years ago wanted nothing to do with you), yet the Russians claim they're victims because when Communism fell, the Ukrainian Catholics resurfaced and took their parishes back. But Rome-educated Greek Catholic clergy*, steeped in Orthodox tradition and theology, are a good "interface" to talk to the Orthodox, better than a Roman Riter who doesn't understand you, plus, as their existence as churches is part of what's being debated, they deserve a say!
*The most "Orthodox" Greek Catholic priests I've met were trained literally in the city of Rome.
We don't "hate" Eastern Catholics. A lot of us like them, and they often have a good understanding of Orthodoxy. It's just that they were converted to Catholicism by Poland from Orthodoxy, perhaps sometimes forcibly. It might be like having Janissaries running the Turkish Muslim side of interfaith dialogue between Greeks and Muslim Turks. Or like Ex-Catholic converts to Protestantism carrying out interfaith dialogue with Catholics.
Do you see what I mean?
Sounds like you like them because in person you know them.
Many of us do.
The Poles didn't directly force the Ukrainian and Byelorussian Orthodox to convert.
Pope St. Meletios I Pegas of Alexandria announced the nullity of the pseudo-council of Brest, as locum tenes of the EP and hence the highest authority in the Church of Kiev at the time-and having served in the Metropolitinate in Lithuania and Poland, as well as Ukraine. That didn't stop the Vatican's minions from persecuting the Orthodox, who, both in the 17th and 18th centuries, called on the Czar to move west to defend the Orthodox and Orthodoxy. You seem to approve of that persecution-beheading Orthodox archimandrites, hunting down Orthodox bishops, taking their parishes and giving them to the Vatican's control etc. to the point of denying it happened.
Actually they didn't care. They were ethnocentric bad guys in this story who did persecute those peoples, so those people tried to get relief by becoming Catholic, which didn't work; the Poles still hated them because they're not Polish. The Rusyn Greek Catholic mountaineers in Poland fought a guerrilla war against the Communists and lost; the Poles with gusto ethnically cleansed their part of the Carpathian Mountains, giving Rusyn Greek Catholic churches to the Roman Riters, just like the Soviets and the Russian Orthodox did to the Ukrainian Catholics.
I see what you mean.
Bring them all in?
When did we leave the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church?
Yes, "bring them all in."
The Sunday-school answer as most here know is "1054!" but it's really more complicated. We would say it was a gradual estrangement in the Middle Ages. The Russians were in communion with Rome after 1054, which is why the moving of St. Nicholas' body to Bari is on their calendar and not the Greeks'; it happened after. If you wanted to pick a cutoff year, you could say when the Russians officially repudiated the Council of Ferrara-Florence, as the Greeks did in 1484.
hardly. The Metropolitan of Kiev John II wrote to Pope Clement of Old Rome in 1080 denouncing the Vatican's errors.http://books.google.com/books?id=X8F9EghcuD8C&pg=PA175&lpg=PA175&dq=epistle+of+Metropolitan+of+Kiev+to+antipope&source=bl&ots=cBR5IVJ1gw&sig=RF3pWKk-oys1trMKJeI0NHhXZqc&hl=en&sa=X&ei=_QIbVOqcGMSPyASTt4LYCw&ved=0CCEQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=epistle%20of%20Metropolitan%20of%20Kiev%20to%20antipope&f=false
That was 7 years before the Translation, which happened when Met. John II still ruled as bishop in Kiev.