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Pope St Damasus, quite likely in a Synod, used the Filioque in a response to the Macedonian heresy: “We believe…in the Holy Spirit, not begotten nor unbegotten, not created nor made, but proceeding from the Father and the Son, always co-eternal with the Father and the Son” (The Filioque: History of a Doctrinal Controversy, A. Edward Siecienski, pp. 56-57).

Dr. Siecienski, who is not so favorable to the true doctrine regarding Filioque, (while, for e.g. Dr. Henry Barclay Swete, Author of one of the last great works on the question about 150 years ago, was much more favorable - Dr. Swete wrote "On the History of the Doctrine of the Procession of the Holy Spirit") acknowledges it is the consensus of modern scholars that it was probably the compiled work of a Council under Pope St. Damasus around 377 or 378 A.D. and was directed against those who claimed "the Spirit was the work or creation of the Son". Does this not count as proof of Filioque?

It will in passing be noted (1) Pope St. Damasus uses the Filioque against Macedonians, which shows the erroneous claim that the Filioque supports Macedonianism is both doctrinally and historically flawed. (2) Also striking is the very incidental and matter-of-fact way in which the Council professes Filioque, as if it was entirely non-controversial and already certain, and effective as proof against Macedonius' blasphemy (3) This therefore is very compelling evidence that the Spirit is Of the Substance of the Father and the Son[i.e is Consubstantial with Them], co-equal and co-eternal with Them, because He eternally proceeds from Both Persons, in the One Essence of the Holy Trinity.

Thoughts? How do the defenders of Monopatrism, the 9th century claim which asserted the Holy Spirit's procession is not from the Father and the Son, answer this 4th century doctrinal confession? The Spirit is consubstantial with the Father because He proceeds from Him. And He is consubstantial with the Father and the Son because He proceeds from Them Both. Both doctrines are complementary. The Greek Church's Tradition also expresses the latter as, the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father through the Son.

We Catholics are asking the Greek Church for evidence of the novelty that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father but not from the Son, that He proceeds from the Father without the Son, or that He proceeds from the Father to the exclusion of the Son. Where is that?

If Monopatrism is true, then the Tradition that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father through the Son is also false.
Other Topics / Re: Your internet haunts
« Last post by Dominika on Today at 09:55:12 AM »
Facebook (that is soruce of news, pictures, contacts and other things, more and more, unfortunately), Youtube (including my channel, but also for various music, cartoons, movies, lectures), my blog,,,,, Wirtualna Polska.
All the rest is changing (quite a lot) from time to time, depending on my studies, work for the Church and other stuff.
Other Topics / Re: Your internet haunts
« Last post by Ainnir on Today at 09:51:30 AM »
A mention on another thread got me wondering where OCNetters go once they navigate away from OCNet. What other internet places do people visit daily or almost-daily? (I may live to regret my curiosity, but if that's my only regret in the end, I'm good.)

Precious little.  :D
weather, bank & finance stuff, local news paper, Youtube (mostly for music), a homeschool forum, calendar
Everything else is sort of as-needed or in spells, with a pretty broad but mundane range of categories.   :)
Religious Topics / Re: Agama Quotable Quotes
« Last post by Volnutt on Today at 09:51:07 AM »

If Pelagian ideas had intensified and become a major schism, one could conceivably imagine it breeding a further rationalistic offshoot that would have been something like Jainism, or possibly even merged with it. After all, if God, Christ and the saints don't actually help you except by providing a moral example, then why do they need to be real (instead of merely metaphors, etc)? Occam's razor and all that.

Holy crap, I just realized that this is essentially Don Cuppit's religion (and Matthew Arnold's too, I suppose).
Religious Topics / Re: New King James Version Bible
« Last post by Iconodule on Today at 09:50:20 AM »
Stylistically I think the NKJV is better than RSV and ESV. It preserves some Orthodox-preferred readings (like "the kingdom of heaven is within you" versus "in your midst"); it translates chesed as "mercy" and not "steadfast love" (which I have a possibly psychotic loathing for). The biggest problem is that it never had the apocrypha.
Reviews / Re: What is everyone reading?
« Last post by Agabus on Today at 09:46:55 AM »
Neil Gaiman's, "The Ocean at the End of the Lane" on audio during a long car drive over the weekend.
Prayer Forum / Re: Prayer for father-in-law
« Last post by WPM on Today at 09:46:47 AM »
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me.
I absolutely hate the assumptions that a lot of these Protestant ministries in Eastern Europe work off (that the Orthodox are spiritually dead, deluded, merely nominal, etc) and that only through becoming Evangelicals can they truly know Christ. At best, it's nothing but sheep stealing from one true (but different) church to another, at worst it's stealing people away for heresy.
+1 That's quite interesting, that the most intense Protestant "mission" in Poland is in traditionally Orthodox part of it.

Why can't this guy go spread Evangelicalism in Oceania or the Maldives where there are people who've arguably never even heard the name of Christ than to a place that's already flooded with competing Christian bodies as it is? :(
So, in my opinion, all of this is a work of evil powers.

"Ukrainian Orthodox 'religious' woman".

Yeah, can't call her Christian. ::)

+1 Some people do not realise that Orthodoxy is a Christian denomination.

Although, with that beard, he'd be a handy ROCOR convert.
Indeed :D
Religious Topics / Re: New King James Version Bible
« Last post by Agabus on Today at 09:42:50 AM »
NKJV wasn't just an update on verbiage, though. It amounted to a new translation which used the 1611 as a base translation. Probably half of the commonly used contemporary translations started the same way.

It's fine. I use it sometimes.

Really? I thought the biggest difference between the NKJV and the RSV is that the NKJV used the Textus and not Westcott and Hort.

And that accounts for some of the differences. But there aren't huge manuscript differences between the two, and since the RSV is a revision of the ASV, which was a revision of the 1788 revision of the KJV...

Anyway, they weren't working from scratch, and their pre-made roux was the KJV.
Prayer Forum / Re: Prayer for father-in-law
« Last post by Dominika on Today at 09:40:01 AM »
Lord have mercy
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