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The real see should be in Athens, but with the titular title of Constantinople (like that's the case of Antioch: titulary it's Antioch, but in fact Damascus) but ofc with parishes in Constantinople/Stambul (the same like it's with Antioch - Antakya).

The Greeks have already been through all this. The Patriarchate was actually in Athens for a short time, as I recall, and then there was a plan that was actually signed by bishops and governments to relocate the Patriarchate to Mt. Athos. For that matter, there are a great many places around the world where the Patriarchate would be warmly welcomed. The solution that ultimately emerged was what we have now, and many reasons were given by all involved parties that were satisfactory at the time -- so I am not sure how the internet is suddenly conceding complete defeat of the Church by the Turks on behalf of all these holy hierarchs, dead and living.

I don't know the story, but... It wouldn't be "conceding complete defeat of the Church by the Turks", as:
1. The name still would be Constantinople (not Istambul, Athens, Karea or anything like this)
2. there would be Orthodox parishes in Constantinople and in other areas of Turkey
3. The patriarch would be (at least from time to time) the visitor to Constantinople, probably there would be a patriarchal vicar bishop in the city.

Is Turkey even demanding this? Any of this? Why are OC.netters assigning some kind of triumph (complete or almost-complete) to the Turks over an Ancient See anyway? What on earth is going on in this thread? Posts range from fantasy to malice. I suppose this is the debased condition of human minds with nothing to do.

Yes, Christianity in Turkey is alive and well just like in the Byzantine days when you were a child. Guide O wise master. A country that closes seminaries and has only 2000 Orthodox Christians and is openly becoming less and less secular (hence more Islamic) is exactly where we should headquarter the most important leader in Orthodoxy.

Honestly Porter, for the last week you have done nothing more than blow everything that anyone says out of proportion and accused people rather falsely of impiety and heresy. Not to mention that you have been gruff with at least one newcomer. Might I make a suggestion that you take a breather.
Other Topics / Re: W.A.G.-word association game
« Last post by HaydenTE on Yesterday at 11:51:28 PM »
Faith Issues / Re: Strange icons
« Last post by HaydenTE on Yesterday at 11:49:02 PM »
Note the flacon (?)

That "flacon" is actually a bottle of manna, or so I've read, and the icon of the Theotokos over it represents that she born the true Manna from Heaven. An idea similar to how icons of the Virgin of the Sign are placed over the unburnt bush in icons of Moses.
Non-Religious Topics / Re: Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young
« Last post by Gamliel on Yesterday at 11:42:59 PM »
I like Crosby, Stills, Nash, and Young's Almost Cut my Hair
Non-Religious Topics / Re: Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young
« Last post by William T on Yesterday at 11:26:18 PM »
Non-Religious Topics / Re: Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young
« Last post by Tallitot on Yesterday at 10:43:47 PM »
Other Topics / Re: Orthodox Haiku
« Last post by Justin Kolodziej on Yesterday at 10:39:44 PM »
They're the greatest Church by far!
Faith Issues / Re: Something about myself I feel like sharing for some reason
« Last post by nothing on Yesterday at 10:31:17 PM »
To the OP,

I love the Imitation of Christ and I've re-read parts of it recently, but I think you misunderstand what he's writing there.

On one hand he's saying don't chase after pursuits of knowledge that lead to vanity, for the sake of appearances. There's folks that read purely to be seen as learned or "wiser" than your average Joe.

It must be stressed that I don't mean knowledge in the sake of memorizing facts but rather acquiring true understanding and insight of many things. This can lead one down to pride, a misplaced love of one's own self-importance.

Like the Preacher in Ecclesiastes said, as thy gaineth knowledge so too does thy gaineth sorrow; it's better to focus on living a life pleasing to God than accrue world weariness. As your quote points out, the more you know the more you shall be judged by unless you live a holy life.

It's difficult to live a holy life if one thinks highly of himself. It's best to think nothing of yourself and rather be kind and hold others higher than yourself. Even if your neighbor is openly unrepentant in his sins you are still to think yourself worse than him.

Even in the Gospel is all about turning worldly wisdom on its head - God took the things in this world, and the things that are not, to shame the wise. All the wisdom in this world is foolishness in God's eyes, he catches those that are wise in their craftiness. God used what was foolish to save us. Paradoxically the Gospel is true wisdom.
Non-Religious Topics / Re: Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young
« Last post by scamandrius on Yesterday at 10:28:53 PM »
Suite: Judy Blue Eyes is another great Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young song.

It goes on for-friggin'-ever.  IT's like an SNL skit:  Should have ended 5 minutes ago.
I think it should go on for another 37 seconds.

You're saying that you want more of the do-do-do-do-do-do crap?
"Demand" it? Seriously?

Surely we're blessed to have such deep-seeing minds here, to perceive this "demand." However, be that as it may, I fail to see how moving the Patriarchate guarantees a cessation (and not actually an elevation) of any of the problems you allege..

Maybe so such powerful word shouldn't be used, maybe "need" would be better; I was just answering for your
Is Turkey even demanding this?
At least in Polish (and in Spanish similarly a bit) it's a kind of stylistic instrument: "not x but [the verb of the interlocutor is repeated], so I had to repeat your verb "demand". I hope I write clearly.
The repetition of the verb like that is also used in English stylistically, for your reference!  :police:
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