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Prayer Forum / Re: My father passed away this evening
« Last post by Gebre Menfes Kidus on Today at 01:12:30 AM »
So sorry my dear brother. May God comfort you and your family. And may your father's dear memory be eternal! +++


Selam
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Other Topics / Re: W.A.G.-word association game
« Last post by Justin Kissel on Today at 01:11:03 AM »
the thing you throw in the face of the person who gave you lemons in life

bolded word is my word... I guess... I'm not a very good player at this game  ;D
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Other Topics / Re: Orange Marmalade
« Last post by hecma925 on Today at 01:09:59 AM »
You know what's better than marmalade?  Strawberry jam.  Even children know that; so does His Grace Nicholas of Manhattan.



I mean, even his prayer rope is strawberry jam colored.
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Prayer Forum / Re: My father passed away this evening
« Last post by SolEX01 on Today at 01:08:05 AM »
My deepest condolences.

May God rest his soul.

Lord have mercy.
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Religious Topics / Re: Women’s Headcoverings
« Last post by Jonathan Gress on Today at 01:04:34 AM »
I think we need to be careful to not make headcoverings into a Tradition instead of a tradition.

I don't know.  I think you would be hard pressed to find a "tradition" that was maintained pretty much universally in Christendom (not just Orthodoxy) for nineteen centuries and change, explicitly authorised in (NT) Scripture against those with divergent practices, etc. and was still relegated merely to the level of "tradition" and not "Tradition".  There's more support for headcoverings than there is for prohibiting menstruating women from communing. 

But if you're right in your warning above (and it's not like I would mind your being right on this matter), I can't help thinking that there's a whole bunch of stuff in Scripture I can safely ignore by labeling it "tradition".

Why does that thought concern you? I am not sure what has remained constant from Christ's time till now in any Xian body odox or not. Christ crucified seems to be one. Belief in the Ressurection seems to be another. I think nearl every article of faith and practice has undergone some sorta of change, appearence, disappearence, etc.

I think the continuity of faith is there but it is in virtue of change, if you can think of more and likely there are, but I can't imagine many.

Nearly everything liturgical has changed, fundamental understandings were fought over (Trinity), schisms which tore apart lives are said to be mere differences in language.

But this I don't see as a problem and in fact a promise of a faith delivered unto the Saints, we just haven't encountered the last Saint to make complete our perfect understanding of the faith.

Women's headcovering of all things seems completely a matter of cultural practice which caused a problem for one of St. Paul's communities and unlike himself he came up with the worst argument in the Pauline corpus to settle it. I've yet to read any interpretation that doesn't seem either completely contrived or ridiculous regarding the otherwise genius insights of St. Paul.

I've asked to be disabused of this here before and have found nothing to make sense of his argument.

But to the lay people born into such practices, I see no reason to create scandal by either arguing against it, just as forcing those not born into the practice would equally odd.

St. Paul's word on the weak versus the strong makes sense here. Those who have enough faith to understand that headcovering have no bearing on the salvation of anyone or the world can bear the weakness of those who must cleave to such articles of piety.

That is the answer that seems to make sense to me when it comes to all things. A perfect blueprint for getting along.

As I said before, the ban on women priests isn't the only arbitrary-seeming impediment to the priesthood. There are bans on eunuchs, or men who have been mutilated in some way; men who are divorced, or who have committed fornication, even if they've confessed and did penance; men who have shed blood, even involuntarily. The list goes on. I think this all has to be tied to the symbolic importance of the priesthood; even the impediments that are linked to certain sins are hard to understand if we are serious about God rejoicing more over the repentance of one sinner than over the 99 who never sinned.

If you don't like arguments from symbolism and wish we had a more rational system for picking candidates, I can get that, but then again, if you don't like symbolism, Orthodoxy's maybe not your thing.

It's not a symbol I have a problem with it is with reducing an argument to mere allegory.

There is a difference between the symbolic and the allegorical and the symbolical and the merely allegorical.

OK. I suppose I don't completely understand the distinction you're trying to make. Could you elaborate?
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Religious Topics / Re: Women’s Headcoverings
« Last post by orthonorm on Today at 01:03:56 AM »
Was St Paul responding specifically to more egalitarian ideas circulating the churches?
I don't know. In some passages of his epistles, it seems as if St. Paul was quite egalitarian compared to others of his contemporaries.

And vice versa. I think arguably the greatest mind and pastor of the Church provided to each member according to its needs and asked of it according to its ability.

Which is why making some epochal sweeping judgements about the faith as a whole in light of St. Paul's particular judgment for a particular community makes almost no sense.

Thankfully he just didn't give everyone a pronouncement of his rulings on matters but also showed them and us his method of caring for those he helped win to Christ.
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Religious Topics / Re: Women’s Headcoverings
« Last post by Jonathan Gress on Today at 12:59:06 AM »
Was St Paul responding specifically to more egalitarian ideas circulating the churches?
I don't know. In some passages of his epistles, it seems as if St. Paul was quite egalitarian compared to others of his contemporaries.

An outsider might conclude he (or the corpus attributed to him) was simply inconsistent. More charitably, perhaps he was responding to different but equally incorrect ideas from his point of view, i.e. the idea that the sexes are completely equal and no distinction at all should be made (eliciting his orders that women cover their heads and not speak in church), versus the idea that women were so beneath men as not even to be worthy of salvation (eliciting his insistence that there is no male or female in Christ).
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I agree that it's not a good understanding of the Atonement, I just think it's better than Jesus satisfying the Father's desire to fry us all.

In Mere Christianity, Lewis actually advocates Recapitulation. It's too bad he didn't work it into Narnia. It might have had a good influence on two generations of Westerners.

I just don't think creation was ever in balance. From what seems moment one, nothing goes well. And if we are to consider the traditional understanding of the Abrhamic religions of God, he authored creation knowing full well its imbalanced state.

So I cant believe that God died in order to bring back into balance what never was. And in case you didn't see the news ever, check it out. In the wake of God's  death I don't see anyone claiming, outside the most narcissistic of newage and buddhist circles,  that there is some balance in the world.

I think balance is just a bad notion to bring into any understanding of God's relationship with creation.

God is the author and origin of all. Even after this age passes, will the countless persons suffering eternal damnation be an entry in the cosmic journal to maintain balance?
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I for one am very offended by genocide and wish people would just pretend it didn't exist. That would solve everything! :P
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Orthodox-Other Christian Discussion / Re: Other churches
« Last post by hecma925 on Today at 12:57:21 AM »
Maybe.
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