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 11 
 on: Today at 01:10:04 PM 
Started by andrewlya - Last post by andrewlya
I myself had problems to understand trinity at the beginning. For one month a believed in God in the Arian way. But I started to understand that God don't want that we try to understand him by our mind, but by seeking the truth with our whole heart, our whole strength. And after seeking enlightment about the problem with trinity and Arianism with fasting( Vegan Diet), praying - with tears my perspective changed and I understood the trinity much more better. It was even more an understanding out of my heart than out of mind. Exactly as I understand and experience God with my heart, so I experienced the trinity with my heart. And afterwards my mind assimilate what my heart experienced.Smiley
We've to humble ourself so we can receive enlightment.
andrewlya, if you have an orthodox background, have you ever went to a confession? In your confession you can tell the priest that you have problems to understand the trinity. And because you humbled yourself in this way, God will give you for sure enlightment and you will get absolute doubtlessness regarding this matter.

No,I have not had a confession about Trinity...Many say that Trinity is a mystery, but if you read the Bible the Trinity is not commanded to be worshiped. There is another verse where Jesus refers to His own God in John 20:17: ' Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God." Jesus has not referred to Himself as God in the Bible only to His Father as God...

I know what you saying...my heart and my mind tells me the opposite, I pray every day and I ask God for His guidance to the right path. I pray directly to God the Father but finish my prayer in the name of Jesus as Jesus had taught us in John 14:13 "And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son".




Yes, Jesus said to Mary, “I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God and your God” (John 20:17).  But just as Christ referred to His Father as God, the Father refers to Jesus as God, “But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever” Hebrews 1:8.

It's true that Jesus never says: "I'm God! (Be obedient to me)!" But the exaltation of Jesus as a man depended entirely on His self-emptying humility. True greatness, divine greatness, is the ability to be the least and to the least with the absolute certitude that it is externally and divinely important, that it is an imitation of God Himself. And the Father has this divine humility as well by referring his Son as God! The Father also never says "I'm God!".

What do you mean the Father never says "I am God"?? What about the Commandment "I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.

 “You shall have no other gods before[a] me."

I mean in the New Testament. Each time when the Father is revealing himself (transfiguration, baptism,..), he's never claims that he's God or it's not written that's it's God. "And a voice from heaven said, “This is my Son..." --> So it's a voice from heaven, and it's never written that it's God voice, because in this way the divinity of Jesus would be separated from him.
And we see that in the Old Testament it's the Trinitarian God - although he just partly reveals himself as such. For example: Then God said, "Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness... (Genesis 1:26)
I don't see the reason why would God the Father need to re-affirm that He is God, if you have read all of the Old Testament then you would definitely know that Father is the GOD, and Jesus confirms that His Father is GOD.

 12 
 on: Today at 01:07:20 PM 
Started by andrewlya - Last post by andrewlya
No,I have not had a confession about Trinity...Many say that Trinity is a mystery, but if you read the Bible the Trinity is not commanded to be worshiped. There is another verse where Jesus refers to His own God in John 20:17: ' Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God." Jesus has not referred to Himself as God in the Bible only to His Father as God...
That's not the whole story. Here are some passages to consider:

John 8:58, where Jesus says "Before Abraham was, I AM". The Pharisees go crazy as they rightly understand this as a claim by Jesus to be God.

Further on in John 20, when Jesus reveals himself to Thomas, Thomas exclaims "My Lord and my God!" and Jesus commends him for having believed.

Compare Isa 45:23, referring to the LORD, with Php 2:9-10, where the same phrase is used, but this time referring to Jesus.

Matt 28:18-20, where the Great Commission is in the name (singular) of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.


One of the simplest descriptions of the mystery of the Trinity that I have heard is: the Father is God, the Son is God, the Holy Spirit is God, and God is one. Theologians have wrestled long and hard with how that can be, leading to the the creeds we now have, and theological statements that are sometimes too hard for me to understand. At the end of the day though, the Church's experience of God is Trinitarian. If your heart believes in the Trinity, but your mind has not yet caught up, then go with your heart.
I think for many christians, for me sometimes also, it's difficult to find the deep heart. It's difficult to distinguish between spiritual and emotional.
Why does it have to be so complicated? Don't forget there was some vehement debate on Jesus nature back in the Council of Nicaea, there was a lot of confusion.
How did the Christian Bishops come up with the Trinity concept? The Trinity concept was man made at the end of the day at the Council of Nicaea,it was not revealed by God in some vision or through a Prophet..

 13 
 on: Today at 01:06:59 PM 
Started by andrewlya - Last post by andrewlya
Quote
Jesus has not referred to Himself as God in the Bible only to His Father as God...

Not true:

From Matt. 16:

13 When Jesus came into the region of Caesarea Philippi, He asked His disciples, saying, “Who do men say that I, the Son of Man, am?”

14 So they said, “Some say John the Baptist, some Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”

15 He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?”

16 Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”

17 Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.


From Matt. 26:

62 And the high priest arose and said to Him, “Do You answer nothing? What is it these men testify against You?” 63 But Jesus kept silent. And the high priest answered and said to Him, “I put You under oath by the living God: Tell us if You are the Christ, the Son of God!

64 Jesus said to him, “It is as you said. Nevertheless, I say to you, hereafter you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven.”


From Luke 22:

66 As soon as it was day, the elders of the people, both chief priests and scribes, came together and led Him into their council, saying, 67 “If You are the Christ, tell us.”

But He said to them, “If I tell you, you will by no means believe. 68 And if I also ask you, you will by no means answer Me or let Me go. [j] 69 Hereafter the Son of Man will sit on the right hand of the power of God.”

70 Then they all said, “Are You then the Son of God?”

So He said to them, “You rightly say that I am.”


71 And they said, “What further testimony do we need? For we have heard it ourselves from His own mouth.”


These are the most direct quotes. There are many others where Christ refers to Himself as the Son of the Father, i.e. the Son of God.
what does Christ mean ?
Correct me if I am wrong, Christ does not mean God, Christ means the Anointed one, the Messiah.

 14 
 on: Today at 12:59:35 PM 
Started by theorthodoxchurch - Last post by theorthodoxchurch
Joint Commission for the Dialogue between Eastern Orthodox & Oriental Orthodox Churches Revamped : Communique Available
http://theorthodoxchurch.info/blog/news/2014/11/joint-commission-for-the-dialogue-between-eastern-orthodox-oriental-orthodox-churches-revamped-communique-available/

 15 
 on: Today at 12:59:13 PM 
Started by orthonorm - Last post by TheTrisagion
It's the middle of Pennsylvania. For sure, you can get a Smiley Cookie with your meal at the  "Eat n Park"  and since you're in the  middle of the state, you can choose between "Sheetz"  or "WaWa" for a  real PA treat.... or if you're daring...both.   Grin
Sadly, Eat n Park has pulled out of central PA and all their locations have closed. As far as I know, they are still out in western PA. You can eat at Sheetz and WaWa, but recommending gas station food to someone is just mean!  laugh

(Although, I am a diehard Sheetz man, myself)  Tongue

 16 
 on: Today at 12:53:26 PM 
Started by Oppositeman - Last post by Punch
True morality is not changeable.  Man's interpretation of morality changes.

 17 
 on: Today at 12:52:37 PM 
Started by andrewlya - Last post by TheTrisagion
No,I have not had a confession about Trinity...Many say that Trinity is a mystery, but if you read the Bible the Trinity is not commanded to be worshiped. There is another verse where Jesus refers to His own God in John 20:17: ' Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God." Jesus has not referred to Himself as God in the Bible only to His Father as God...
That's not the whole story. Here are some passages to consider:

John 8:58, where Jesus says "Before Abraham was, I AM". The Pharisees go crazy as they rightly understand this as a claim by Jesus to be God.

Further on in John 20, when Jesus reveals himself to Thomas, Thomas exclaims "My Lord and my God!" and Jesus commends him for having believed.

Compare Isa 45:23, referring to the LORD, with Php 2:9-10, where the same phrase is used, but this time referring to Jesus.

Matt 28:18-20, where the Great Commission is in the name (singular) of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.


One of the simplest descriptions of the mystery of the Trinity that I have heard is: the Father is God, the Son is God, the Holy Spirit is God, and God is one. Theologians have wrestled long and hard with how that can be, leading to the the creeds we now have, and theological statements that are sometimes too hard for me to understand. At the end of the day though, the Church's experience of God is Trinitarian. If your heart believes in the Trinity, but your mind has not yet caught up, then go with your heart.
You say: "the Father is God, the Son is God, the Holy Spirit is God, and God is one". But we can clearly see from the Bible that all three are physically separate from each other. God the Father is one God,Jesus sits at the right hand of His father-they are separate physically. In Luke 3:22 we see Holy Spirit descending on Jesus. So, we can't deny the fact that the three persons in the Trinity are physcially separate, but if all 3 are also God, that meas there are 3 Gods...but God is one. We are not pagans, we have to believe in Oness of God.

If Trinity is still a mystery for Christians up to this very day, then we have not got to know God fully, or well enough.
A god that you can fit into your mind is not a god at all.

God is inherently incomprehensible, He is far bigger than our minds can understand. He would have to be, He created an entire universe and is still not contained by the immensity of it. We accept what He has revealed to us, but that doesn't mean we understand Him. It is like an ant trying to understand the complexity of humanity; it just isn't going to happen.

 18 
 on: Today at 12:49:48 PM 
Started by andrewlya - Last post by Minnesotan
And imagine if Arian was right regarding Nontrinitarianism, that would mean that the world had to live about 1500 years  without a true revelation of God - without truth! All christians had had then a false relationship with God. Imagine that! 1500 years without truth and possibly without salvation? Did Jesus die on the cross so that only after 300 years Satan come to power again and the humankind should live without truth and with a false relationship with God again? It's not possible, because Jesus promised that:
I will build my church, and all the powers of hell will not conquer it. Matthew 16:18.
and: "if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God's household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth." 1 Timothy 3:15.
God is Love - he would never allow that humankind had to live 1500(!!) years without his church.
I don't see anything wrong with Arian theology,there was a lot of debate on the nature of Jesus as there was a lot of confusion. At the end it was decided that at Council of Nicaea that God is Triune, which is not backed up by the words of the Bible, that is not how I see it. Like I said before if Arian Christianity existed now I woud consider being a part of them because I don't think it is a blasphemy to believe in Oneness of God,the Father and accept Jesus as our promised Messiah, the Saviour of human kind, the Son of God. But God is One, the Father who art in Heaven as Jesus had taight us to pray. That is what I believe.
Uhhh, what?  Shocked

You can be an Arian, it does exist now in various forms like Mormonism and Jehovah Witnesses.

Arian believed in a God with no beginning (the Father), a subordinate god with a beginning (the Son), and a further subordinate "minister" to Christ (Holy Spirit). That doesn't sound like what you contend to believe.

We do believe in the Oneness of Being of God, but the One God has three persons.  We state in our liturgy "...the Trinity, One in essence and undivided..."

Mormons are not Arians, they believe God the Father did have a beginning and that he himself had a Father. In Mormonism, the terms Father and Son are interpreted very literally, which means that there is not only a Father and a Son, but also a Grandfather, Great-Grandfather, etc., even though Mormons don't worship those beings directly. They also believe that eventually every Mormon will become a god of their own world and have spirit children who populate that world, just like God did with ours.

In other words, there is no real ontological distinction between creator and creature in Mormonism. Everyone is both.

It's turtles all the way down. The only other religion that teaches anything close to this is Scientology (which also claims that a sufficiently "advanced" being, which any of us can potentially become, will have godlike powers and the ability to create their own universes).

Jehovah's Witnesses, however are Arians, they even revere Arius as the sixth angel from Revelation 9 (Charles Taze Russell being the seventh).

Iglesia ni Cristo are also Arians.

 19 
 on: Today at 12:49:19 PM 
Started by Justin Kissel - Last post by Punch
Where are the stars of her perpetual virginity?!

I don't know if I have ever heard of a blond virgin.  Methinks the picture is fake. 

 20 
 on: Today at 12:49:13 PM 
Started by orthonorm - Last post by podkarpatska
It's the middle of Pennsylvania. For sure, you can get a Smiley Cookie with your meal at the  "Eat n Park"  and since you're in the  middle of the state, you can choose between "Sheetz"  or "WaWa" for a  real PA treat.... or if you're daring...both.   Grin

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