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Oriental Orthodox Discussion / Re: Pope Tawadros and Female Priests
« Last post by LBK on Today at 03:57:28 AM »
I don't think it is appropriate to see an oceanographer's bare knees.


I gather she would be valued for providing information for the feast of the Epiphany Theophany.

FIFY.
Επεφάνης σήμερον τή οικουμένη, καί τό φώς σου Κύριε, εσημειώθη εφ’ ημάς, έν επιγνώσει υμνούντάς σε. Ήλθες εφάνης τό Φώς τό απρόσιτον. (Κοντάκιον Ήχος δ’)

Every Greek menaion and liturgical calendar has this entry for January 6: Τὰ Ἅγια Θεοφάνεια τοῦ Κυρίου ἡμῶν Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ.
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Oriental Orthodox Discussion / Re: Pope Tawadros and Female Priests
« Last post by Antonis on Today at 03:54:00 AM »
I don't think it is appropriate to see an oceanographer's bare knees.


I gather she would be valued for providing information for the feast of the Epiphany Theophany.

FIFY.
Επεφάνης σήμερον τή οικουμένη, καί τό φώς σου Κύριε, εσημειώθη εφ’ ημάς, έν επιγνώσει υμνούντάς σε. Ήλθες εφάνης τό Φώς τό απρόσιτον. (Κοντάκιον Ήχος δ’)
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Western thinkers (with disability-ridden-intellects) cannot fathom that the War has not been "Cold" for milions in Middle East, Eastern Europe and Centra Asia for years.

Ergo, I don't think it will end "Cold" for West, too. It needs to be hot, very hot.
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Since dogs are not allowed in church, I doubt that this pup will displace Grumpy Cat in Orthodox Christianity.

Guide dogs and other certified working dogs are indeed allowed in Orthodox churches.
I must have missed that section of the Pedalion.
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Reviews / Re: What is everyone reading?
« Last post by Justin Kissel on Today at 03:23:34 AM »
For the last week or two I've been downloading more and more papers/essays from academia.edu, such as:

The Orthodox Rejection of Doctrinal Development, by Daniel J. Lattier (argues that "Newman’s understanding of doctrinal development is in fundamental harmony with the Orthodox understanding of Tradition.")

St Gregory the Theologian’s Existential Metanarrative of History, by Mario Baghos ("St Gregory articulated a view of history which is both richly nuanced and existentially significant.")

Primacy and Ecclesiology: The State of the Question, John Panteleimon Manoussakis ("The fact, in other words, that the Orthodox Churches today refuse to recognize a Rome-like primacy among themselves is the major problem in their dialogue with Rome.")

Reception of St Justin Popović in the Recent German Scholarship, by Vladimir Cvetkovic ("The scholarly interest manifested in Justin Popović in Germany is somеhow peculiar...")

The Literature of Plague and the Anxieties of Piety in Sixth-Century Byzantium, by Anthony Kaldellis ("Nature was especially unkind to the Byzantines in the sixth century... Worst of all, 541 witnessed the outbreak of the deadliest plague in European history before the Black Death... This essay will focus on its impact on popular piety and on the theological conjectures that it elicited.")

There's a ton on there (Though sadly there wasn't much by/about a number of the modern Orthodox authors I enjoy).
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I don't think that's entirely true. In cases involving deceit, bigamy, consanguinity and the like, I'm pretty sure that such marriages can be annulled, as the Church simply can recognize that no marriage could have happened. Suppose, for example, to take an extreme case, that a man and a woman marry, only for it later to be revealed that the woman is a transsexual who was originally a man. Since a man cannot marry a man, an annulment and not a divorce would be the proper procedure. A divorce in such a case would make no sense, because objectively the couple could not have been married in the first place.

The difference is that the present system of Roman Catholic annulment has gone completely bonkers. Now, people essentially can claim a defect of intent on the part of those who confer the sacrament (the married couple), and declare after the fact that their marital problems essentially prove the defect in intent (along with maybe the maid of honor/best man giving some hammy story to demonstrate how the bride/groom did not really understand the sacrament of marriage at the time of marriage). Orthodoxy obviously has no equivalent to this.
You could get an annulment, but it would be from the government, not from the Church. I have never heard of the Orthodox Church granting an annulment. If you sever a marriage, it requires repentance. It doesn't matter what term you use to denote the severing or what the reason is for it.

I think we don't usually speak of "annulments" in the Church because in the majority of cases we are dealing with marriages that began legitimately and failed.  But I think Cavaradossi is right in saying that, in particular circumstances, the Church could nullify a marriage rather than granting a divorce.

I think we can all agree the church does not nullify marriages rather it makes a statement of fact/ gives a decree of nullity...

Whatever helps you sleep at night, friend.  I know what I meant by the word "nullify" as opposed to the other word I used (i.e., "divorce").

Seriously? If you don't agree, which I hope you do, your theology around annulments is pretty faulty.
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Oriental Orthodox Discussion / Re: Pope Tawadros and Female Priests
« Last post by LBK on Today at 03:04:56 AM »
In my parish, we are blessed to have a wonderful female oceanographer and she needs to enter that "bastion of men" to do her work.

Wait, there's an ocean in your altar space?

OOPS!!!

iconographer, of course.

Are iconographers tonsured or ordained?

Neither. They are, or should be, given a blessing by their bishop to call themselves iconographers.

EDIT: Just seen Maria's edited post. I speak from the EO POV.
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Oriental Orthodox Discussion / Re: Pope Tawadros and Female Priests
« Last post by Maria on Today at 03:03:24 AM »
In my parish, we are blessed to have a wonderful female oceanographer and she needs to enter that "bastion of men" to do her work.

Wait, there's an ocean in your altar space?

OOPS!!!

iconographer, of course.

Are iconographers tonsured or ordained in the Oriental Orthodox Church??
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Orthodox-Catholic Discussion / Re: Tradition vs EO 2nd and 3rd marriage
« Last post by Maria on Today at 03:02:37 AM »
Obviously, I'm no expert on the matter, but in reading this article, it makes it sound as if even issues that would be grounds for nullification under RC rules, are still considered as an ecclesiastical divorce from an Orthodox perspective. I pretty much get hives at the thought of reading and trying to figure out canon law, so I didn't dare go further than this article.  :P

http://www.saintdemetrios.com/our-faith/divorce
Quote
In accordance with Church Canon Law, an Ecclesiastical Divorce is granted only under certain circumstances In accordance with the 21 November 1973 encyclical of His Eminence, Archbishop Iakovos, a divorce is given and considered valid, when a marriage is entered into by force, blackmail or false reasons.

    one or both parties is guilty of adultery.
    one party is proven to be mad, insane or suffers from a social disease which was not disclosed to the spouse prior to the marriage.
    one party has conspired against the life of the spouse.
    one party is imprisoned for more than seven years.
    one party abandons the other for more than three years without approval.
    one partner should be absent from home without the other's approval, except in in stances when the latter is assured that such absence is due to psycho-neurotic illness.
    one partner forces the other to engage in illicit affairs with others.
    one partner does not fulfill the responsibilities of marriage, or when it is medically proven that one party is physically impotent or as the result of a social venereal disease.
    one partner is an addict, thereby creating undue economic hardship.


But we need not limit ourselves to "issues that would be grounds for nullification under RC rules" in order to say whether "annulment" vs "divorce" would be the way to go.  Cavaradossi mentioned the case of a "marriage" between a man and a transsexual who was originally a man.  That's a bit more than "mad, insane, or suffers from a social disease".  I would suggest the case of two people married by a priest who is not actually a priest.  Perhaps he [was once a priest but was legitimately defrocked and] has gone into business for himself, or the church involved is actually in schism, etc., and this was not known to the couple, who made their decisions in good faith.  In such cases, "marriage" could not have happened. 

You could go through the procedures for an ecclesiastical divorce anyway, but you're not really divorcing if the marriage you are abandoning could not possibly have ever occurred.  The legitimate authority may grant a "divorce", but there may be legitimate reasons for regarding it as an annulment instead.  It's not common, but it's not impossible.     

POM Nominee!
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Oriental Orthodox Discussion / Re: Oriental Orthodox Picture of the Day
« Last post by Maria on Today at 02:53:55 AM »
the coolest Muron case I have ever seen in any church...a dove that spreads its wings when turned

It's cool how they do that.   :)

Is there a YouTube video of this?
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