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Other Topics / Re: The Things that Cheer You Up
« Last post by Arachne on Today at 05:37:25 PM »
It rained, which brought the pollen count down, automatically making life a lot less miserable.
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I'm not a big fan of fiction, but in order to get my sister to read my brand of non-fiction, I am reading the Harry Potter series, and I admit, I'm enjoying them as well.
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Other Topics / Re: Random Postings
« Last post by Ainnir on Today at 04:28:06 PM »
What a sad May for music.   Lord have mercy. 
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It's very interesting to see how the passage in Josephus about Jesus lines up with the passage in Luke 24. It suggests that the "prophets" referred to in Josephus mean the Old Testament prophets. It also suggests to me that whoever wrote the passage in Josephus used the passage in Luke 24 as a basic outline or reference source:

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Luke 24:19-21-27
A. "'The things about Jesus the Nazarene, who was a [man] prophet (aner profetes)

B. mighty in deed and word before God and all the people,

C. and how our chief priests and leaders handed him over to the judgment of death and crucified him. But we had hoped that he was the one to redeem Israel.

D. Yes, and besides all this, it is now the third day since these things took place. Yea, and certain women also of our company made us astonished, which were early at the sepulchre;  And when they found not his body, they came, saying, that they had also seen a vision of angels, which said that he was alive. And certain of them which were with us went to the sepulchre, and found it even so as the women had said: but him they saw not.

E. Then he said to them, ' Oh, how foolish you are, and how slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have declared! Was it not necessary that the Messiah should suffer these things and then enter into his glory?' Then beginning with Moses and all the prophets, he interpreted to them the things about himself in all the scriptures.

F. And they drew nigh unto the village, whither they went: and he made as though he would have gone further. But they constrained him, saying, Abide with us: for it is toward evening, and the day is far spent. And he went in to tarry with them. And it came to pass, as he sat at meat with them, he took bread, and blessed it, and brake, and gave to them. And their eyes were opened, and they knew him; and he vanished out of their sight.

Josephus, Antiquities 18.63
A. About this time there was Jesus, a wise man (aner), [if indeed one ought to call him a man].

B. For he was one who performed surprising deeds and was a teacher of such people as accept the truth gladly. He won over many Jews and many of the Greeks.

C. [He was the Christ.] And when, upon an accusation by the principal men among us, Pilate had condemned him to a cross, those who had in the first place come to love him did not give up their affection for him.

D. He appeared to them spending a third day restored to life,

E. for the prophets of God had prophesied these things and countless other marvels about him.


F. And the tribe of the Christians, so called after him, has still to this day not disappeared.
Based on how the lines match up, I think that the words in Blue or something related to them are probably in the original version of Josephus' passage. That is, the beginning has a reference to God or "if indeed he was a man" in both passages. "He was the Christ" lines up with the apostles saying that they had hoped that he would redeem Israel.

Maria M. Oberg in "The Mystery of the Testimonium Flavianum" notes:
"Luke's Emmaus passage and the Testimonium are the only two texts using the resurrection third day as object of a verb in all of ancient Christian literature."

The sitting and breaking of bread (communion meal uniting the Christians) in Luke 24 correspond to the concept of the tribe of the Christians in Josephus' passage. Also, the references to abiding and vanishing at the end of the passage in Luke 24 lines up with the tribe of the Christians abiding and not vanishing.

In fact, the Arabic version seems to even correspond less with Luke 24 than the above part does, which suggests to me that there could have been two perhaps contemporary 1st-2nd c. versions of Josephus' passage. For comparison, here is the Arabic version:
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"At this time there was a wise man who was called Jesus.  And his conduct was good, and he was known to be virtuous.  And many people from among the Jews and the other nations became his disciples. Pilate condemned him to be crucified and to die. And those who had become his disciples did not abandon his discipleship. They reported that he had appeared to them after his crucifixion and that he was alive; accordingly, he was perhaps the Messiah concerning whom the prophets have recounted wonders.

This creates an interesting problem. On one hand, it stands to reason that Josephus probably did have a significant passage about Jesus, since he referenced Jesus elsewhere in the story about James, without providing any details. One would guess that since Josephus referenced Jesus, he would fill in details at some later point. And I do see how the Greek and Latin version closely resembles Luke 24, which seems to be the basic source. On the other hand, to accept that Josephus wrote "He was the Christ" is very hard, because Origen wrote that Josephus didn't believe in Jesus, and the Arabic version seems more realistic.
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Oberg rejects the hypothesis that the Testimonium Flavianum is an interpolation of the Emmaus narrative by a later Christian copyist.

"To have employed Luke, the proposed interpolator would have had to remove the extensive flashback in the middle of the text (which for Luke serves the purpose of linking this story to one he has told previously), lift two quotations out of the mouths of the characters who speak them, combine them into a single unit, change the first person to the third person, making one error in the process, cutting off the rest of the chapter, and adding in a gratuitous comment about the continued existence of the so-called Christians. This an intrinsically implausible procedure, and there is no precedent for such an interpolation in other ancient texts."
     - Maria M. Oberg , "The Mystery of the Testimonium Flavianum"

Josephus is known to have made extensive use of outside written sources when not recounting his own direct experience.

http://web.archive.org/web/20010629015904/http://www.fireplug.net/~rshand/restricted/reflections/messiah/sources.html
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Oriental Orthodox Discussion / Re: Thoughts on Pope Francis?
« Last post by MalpanaGiwargis on Today at 04:16:10 PM »
Continuing the slow work of turning the RCC into a bigger Anglican Communion. So, it depends on whether that's good or not.
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Other Topics / Re: The Things that Cheer You Up
« Last post by Ainnir on Today at 04:11:39 PM »
Cleaned up my yard.  Planted a bed of herbs and geraniums and begonias in pots.  Roses blooming.  Love it.  Weather is perfect.  Am having breakfast in the yard now, for a few days anyway, that is until the weeds reclaim their ground.

+1  :D
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Hey Sol! Haven't seen you in awhile. Good to see you; hope you are doing well.  :)

I am doing well.  Thanks for asking.

A friend of mine told me that J.K. Rowling's depiction of Harry Potter was similar to Neil Gaiman's depiction of a boy wizard; hence, I won't be reading the rest of the books in the Harry Potter series.

That, of course, is your choice, but - beyond the glasses - Tim Hunter and Harry Potter can be worlds apart. You'd be missing out. :)

I wanted to repudiate my own stereotypes of Harry Potter.  I accomplished that goal.   :)

I recently finished reading the first Harry Potter book, Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone and I would like to retract all the bad things I ever said about Harry Potter.  If I offended anyone, I ask for forgiveness.

A friend of mine told me that J.K. Rowling's depiction of Harry Potter was similar to Neil Gaiman's depiction of a boy wizard; hence, I won't be reading the rest of the books in the Harry Potter series.  Regardless, I enjoyed reading the first book, like reading Bewitched.

You shouldn't. Harry Potter is trash.

Why do you say that?  Have you read any book in the series?


A friend of mine told me that J.K. Rowling's depiction of Harry Potter was similar to Neil Gaiman's depiction of a boy wizard; hence, I won't be reading the rest of the books in the Harry Potter series. 

Huh?

See reply to Arachne.

Character X develops similarly to character Y, so I won't read the rest... that's a non sequitur, matey.

It's analogy, a basis of logic.
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Other Topics / Re: Random Postings
« Last post by Porter ODoran on Today at 03:44:46 PM »
45 years after his brother. Memory eternal.
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Oriental Orthodox Discussion / Re: Thoughts on Pope Francis?
« Last post by Porter ODoran on Today at 03:42:51 PM »
What are some of your thoughts on the current Pope? Just curious.  :)

Lovely man, and a man of God.
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Other Topics / Re: Random Postings
« Last post by biro on Today at 03:42:04 PM »
Guitarist Gregg Allman of the Allman Brothers band has died.

Rest in peace.
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