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Moderated Forums => Free-For-All => Religious Topics => Topic started by: Dismus on August 13, 2006, 10:09:17 AM

Title: A Trinity Question
Post by: Dismus on August 13, 2006, 10:09:17 AM
Does anyone here have a list of the scriptures in the Bible that show the Trinity?

I have been talking to my mom and she said there is no basis for it in the bible.

I can't remember the Scriptures to tell her to read.

I told her somewhere in Genesis God says "we created....

I am going to look at it again and try to search for anything I can find in some of my very disorganized notes from way back, but if anyone has anything for me I would appreciate it.

Sadly, I read the Bible almost every day and yet I have no memory skills like a lot of Protestants who can whip out of memory each chapter and verse. I just don't read the Bible that way. I am more worried about getting the point instead of memorizing verses.
Title: Re: A Trinity Question
Post by: hedley on August 13, 2006, 02:43:26 PM
Does anyone here have a list of the scriptures in the Bible that show the Trinity?

Try: http://www.christinyou.net/pages/trinity.html


    2. New Testament
              Matt. 3:16,17 - "being baptized, Jesus...saw the Spirit of God descending...and a voice,
                  saying, 'This is My beloved Son...'"
              Matt. 28:19 - "baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit"
              II Cor. 13:14 - "the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship
                  of the Holy Spirit, be with you all"
              Gal. 4:6 - "God sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts..."
              Eph. 4:4-6 - "one Spirit...one Lord...one God and Father of all..."
              I Pet. 1:2 - "foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, that
                  you may obey Jesus Christ..."
              I Jn. 5:7 (KJV) - (without adequate MSS evidence; interpolation)
              a. Father as God
                  Jn. 6:27 - "the Father, God, has set His seal"
                  Eph. 4:6 - "one God and Father"
                  I Pet. 1:2 - "God the Father..."
              b. Son as God - (cf. I Jn. 5:20; Phil. 2:6
                  Jn. 1:1 - "the Word was God"
                  Jn. 20:28 - "My Lord and my God"
                  Titus 2:13 - "our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus"
                  Heb. 1:8 - "of the Son, 'Thy throne, O God, is forever..."
                  II Pet. 1:1 - "God and Savior, Jesus Christ"
              c. Holy Spirit as God
                  Acts 5:3,4 - "lie to Holy Spirit...you have lied to God"
                  Rom. 8:9 - "the Spirit...Spirit of God...Spirit of Christ
                  I Cor. 6:11 - "the Spirit of our God"
                  II Cor. 3:17,18 - "the Lord is the Spirit"
Title: Re: A Trinity Question
Post by: Cephas on August 13, 2006, 04:59:46 PM
+ Irini nem ehmot,

Regarding Genesis, the Trinity is manifest within the first three verses of that book.  If we take a look at them they read:

"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.  The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep.  And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.  Then God said, "Let there be light";..."
-- Genesis 1:1-3

Upon further analysis we see the Trinity clearly.  "In the beginning God created...".  Here we have the Father mentioned, since as we say in the Creed, "We believe in One God, God the Father, the Pantocrator, Who created heaven and earth and all things seen and unseen."

"... the Spirit of God" is rather straightforward, He is the Holy Spirit.

Finally, the Second Person of the Trinity, Christ, is, as we all know, also referred to as the Logos.  Thus, the Logos is simply the statement 'Let there be light'. 

And there you have the Trinity in the very first book of the Bible.  :)

Please pray for me.
Title: Re: A Trinity Question
Post by: Matthew777 on August 14, 2006, 02:39:06 AM
I have been talking to my mom and she said there is no basis for it in the bible.

I hope she isn't a Mormon or JW.
Title: Re: A Trinity Question
Post by: Dismus on August 14, 2006, 08:21:19 AM
I hope she isn't a Mormon or JW.

JW :'(
Title: Re: A Trinity Question
Post by: serb1389 on August 14, 2006, 10:19:38 PM
JW's are a whole other thing my friend

Does she believe that Jesus is the Son of God?

I had a JW "seminarian" ask me where in the Bible does it say that Jesus is the Son of God. 
So i'm curious to know if she also has this thought...?

Ask her is she thinks she's one of the 144,000  ;)  (no offense intended)
Title: Re: A Trinity Question
Post by: Dismus on August 15, 2006, 10:42:54 AM
JW's are a whole other thing my friend

Does she believe that Jesus is the Son of God?

I had a JW "seminarian" ask me where in the Bible does it say that Jesus is the Son of God.ÂÂ  
So i'm curious to know if she also has this thought...?

Ask her is she thinks she's one of the 144,000ÂÂ  ;)ÂÂ  (no offense intended)


I know all their wacky heresy. Michael the Archangel is Jesus !!!
Blasphemey!! He died on a "torture stake" not a Cross!!!---not enough wood to waste on a Cross they say!!! Anathama!  no, she thinks the 144,000 are only the big hitters (male elders) and she thinks that the rest will live on Paradise earth forever!!!!
No holidays, ect, no birthday's because John The Baptist (my favorite saint) was beheaded at a birthday party.

Everyone that is not a JW is a pagan that is going to die since they don't think there is a HELL either.

Too many wierd things. I just thought that if she could grasp that the trinity is revealed in the scriptures she may see through this hooey.

I really think that they should be an illegal faith - but I know that is wrong to say.

Title: Re: A Trinity Question
Post by: serb1389 on August 15, 2006, 01:00:28 PM
Yah, when that guy asked me the question about Jesus being the Son of God, I didn't even know how to answer him.   :o

But it really got me to thinking.  We really SHOULD know all of the scriptural basis for our Dogmatic beliefs (Orthodox).  So it definately spurred me to read more, which is always a good thing. 

Let me know if we (I) can help in any other way!!  I'd love to crack the whip a few times... ;)
Title: Re: A Trinity Question
Post by: TomS on August 15, 2006, 01:41:00 PM
Too many wierd things.

And what religion is not? Think about Christianity. Pretty far-fetched.

Title: Re: A Trinity Question
Post by: Dismus on August 15, 2006, 01:44:31 PM
I love the "where in the Bible" one.

Where in the Bible does it say you should only use the Bible?

Where in the Bible does it say who wrote all the books?

Were in the Bible does it say that Jesus is the Archangel Michael?

On and on.

Actually we should use their tactics on them. Good point.
Title: Re: A Trinity Question
Post by: Αριστοκλής on August 15, 2006, 02:05:51 PM
I love the "where in the Bible" one.

Where in the Bible does it say you should only use the Bible?

Where in the Bible does it say who wrote all the books?

Were in the Bible does it say that Jesus is the Archangel Michael?



Good point. They would put us in the same class as Islam..."Where in the quran...?"
Title: Re: A Trinity Question
Post by: FrChris on August 15, 2006, 02:14:00 PM
Good to see you're back and posting, Serb1389!

But it really got me to thinking.ÂÂ  We really SHOULD know all of the scriptural basis for our Dogmatic beliefs (Orthodox).ÂÂ  So it definately spurred me to read more, which is always a good thing.ÂÂ  


Just as the Lord worked through Pharaoh, and the Lord gave us heretics so that we can better explain the Faith, so too did the Lord send you that JW person so that you can help others through your scriptural studies!

Just try to pray for them, and take heart in the abundant mercy of God.
Title: Re: A Trinity Question
Post by: Matthew777 on August 15, 2006, 05:21:32 PM
JW :'(

May God open her heart to your pleas.

1 John 5:7
For there are three that bear witness in heaven:
the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit;
and these three are one.
Title: Re: A Trinity Question
Post by: serb1389 on August 15, 2006, 05:30:01 PM
And what religion is not? Think about Christianity. Pretty far-fetched.



Yah....so is thinking  ;)    :P   

And random posts... ;)    :P
Title: Re: A Trinity Question
Post by: serb1389 on August 15, 2006, 05:32:12 PM
Good to see you're back and posting, Serb1389!

Just as the Lord worked through Pharaoh, and the Lord gave us heretics so that we can better explain the Faith, so too did the Lord send you that JW person so that you can help others through your scriptural studies!

Just try to pray for them, and take heart in the abundant mercy of God.

thanks Chris!!! 

So no fervent missionary work, breaking them down mentally, spiritually and physically ( ;))??
I don't know if I could hold back the dogs of Tradition  ;) ;D
Title: Re: A Trinity Question
Post by: Dismus on August 15, 2006, 05:40:13 PM
thanks Chris!!!ÂÂ  

So no fervent missionary work, breaking them down mentally, spiritually and physically ( ;))??
I don't know if I could hold back the dogs of TraditionÂÂ  ;) ;D

It's way too soon to get someone in a cult to read Tradition of the Early Fathers or any "man made" Traditions.

It is tempting but they are not receptive to this tacktic.
Title: Re: A Trinity Question
Post by: serb1389 on August 16, 2006, 12:12:20 AM
why do you say that?

And what do you mean by Tradition?

If you could bring up specific questions that would be great. 

Also, specific issues/topics of Tradition would be good too. 

This way we can bring up specific issues.  Is that OK? 
Title: Re: A Trinity Question
Post by: Dismus on August 16, 2006, 07:31:06 AM
why do you say that?

And what do you mean by Tradition?

If you could bring up specific questions that would be great.ÂÂ  

Also, specific issues/topics of Tradition would be good too.ÂÂ  

This way we can bring up specific issues.ÂÂ  Is that OK?ÂÂ  


Jehovah's Witnesses will not accept: Interpretations of the Scripture from an "apostate" Church
OR the sacrements other than Baptism, marriage - and a once a year memorial service where everyone refuses the body and blood (symbolic) except for the 144,000 if they think they are one of them..
They will not read the Early Fathers. No need.
I don't recall any traditions being used or mentioned by her at all.
They say Insense is pagan and a horror to use.
Same with candles, so the sacrementals are out.
Intercession in Prayer- no need go to God directly
Mary had other children -  >:(
So many other things-
What I am saying is they have their own traditions of stupidity.
Not ours.
Title: Re: A Trinity Question
Post by: Fr. David on August 16, 2006, 09:07:38 AM
If I could offer this suggestion...

Take her to the first chapter of the book of Revelation and, gently, walk her through this:

v. 8 -- "The Almighty" calls Himself the "Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end."

v. 11 -- John hears a voice saying, "I am Alpha and Omega"--so we know it has to be "The Almighty," who then also calls Himself "the first and the last."

v. 17-18 -- John turns and sees someone "like unto the Son of man," who then says that He is "the first and the last," so we know that this guy is "The Almighty" somehow, but not only does He say that, but this Son of Man, the Almighty, seals the deal by saying that He is the One "that liveth, and was dead; and behold; [is] alive for evermore. Amen."

So the One who lived, died, and rose again is, according to the book of Revelation, "The Almighty."  It's the most straightforward proof of Christ's divinity that I know of, and it's straight out of the Scriptures.  My prayers are with you; I know how nearly impossible it is, not only for grown sons and daughters to talk to their parents, but also for parents to take religious advice (or often advice of any kind) from their children, no matter how old the children are, because "I'm still your mother/father!"  :-\

If she has ears to hear, you might want to open her up with that.
Title: Re: A Trinity Question
Post by: Dismus on August 16, 2006, 09:23:30 AM
Pedro-

That is so great!!!

Thanks for your response. It is possible she has the "ears to hear" since she is not 100 percent knowledgeable of why she believes this bunk, she is brainwashed.
She really does not take the "don't tell me what to think you are my kid"
since I basically was the one to help her with her English and she always said that I was kind and slow and never gave her the feeling she had little worth for not getting it right away. She does ask my opinions on other matters as well. But this is one I never liked getting into since she never can answer a question as to why she holds these things as a truth. So then, it makes for a empty conversation at that point.
I was hoping to do as you suggest and let her read things for herself and then let her ask questions if she still does not get it. Let her do the talking so to speak. Rather than me going on and on in her circular thoughts of negativaty protesting everything without knowing why.
Thank God for the ones here that know Scripture as well as you all do!
I pray for all the members here in thanks to God, even the nasty posters, since they all get me to see a new way to learn about him and to open my mind to him more.

Thanks!
Title: Re: A Trinity Question
Post by: serb1389 on August 16, 2006, 10:27:39 AM

Jehovah's Witnesses will not accept: Interpretations of the Scripture from an "apostate" Church
OR the sacrements other than Baptism, marriage - and a once a year memorial service where everyone refuses the body and blood (symbolic) except for the 144,000 if they think they are one of them..
They will not read the Early Fathers. No need.
I don't recall any traditions being used or mentioned by her at all.
They say Insense is pagan and a horror to use.
Same with candles, so the sacrementals are out.
Intercession in Prayer- no need go to God directly
Mary had other children -ÂÂ  >:(
So many other things-
What I am saying is they have their own traditions of stupidity.
Not ours.

She doesn't have to read interpretations of an "Apostate" church.  All she has to read is an actual BIBLE. 

Has she read through the Bible?  Ever?  That should be the first question (I think)

The next should be, WHICH Bible.  I'm not sure if the JW's have their own "translation"  but if they do you should pick up a copy and see if it has the FULL canon of scripture.  Books might be missing.  In which case you need to point that out and show her a real Bible

Like Pedro said, just put a Bible in front of her and ask her to read the appropriate sections.  It should be as simple as black and white for a lot of it.  Some interpretation might be necessary, but I think at that point SHE is going to ask you "what does THIS mean?"  etc..

Just a thought...
Title: Re: A Trinity Question
Post by: TomS on August 16, 2006, 11:00:32 AM
What I am saying is they have their own traditions of stupidity.
Not ours.

Exactly.ÂÂ

It is possible she has the "ears to hear" since she is not 100 percent knowledgeable of why she believes this bunk, she is brainwashed.

Right. Unlike the Orthodox faithful who know EXACTLY the theology behind all their beliefs and NEVER say "Because the Church, and the Tradition as defined by the Church, tells me it is so"ÂÂ  ::)
Title: Re: A Trinity Question
Post by: Dismus on August 16, 2006, 11:29:40 AM
She doesn't have to read interpretations of an "Apostate" church.ÂÂ  All she has to read is an actual BIBLE.ÂÂ  

Has she read through the Bible?ÂÂ  Ever?ÂÂ  That should be the first question (I think)

The next should be, WHICH Bible.ÂÂ  I'm not sure if the JW's have their own "translation"ÂÂ  but if they do you should pick up a copy and see if it has the FULL canon of scripture.ÂÂ  Books might be missing.ÂÂ  In which case you need to point that out and show her a real Bible

Like Pedro said, just put a Bible in front of her and ask her to read the appropriate sections.ÂÂ  It should be as simple as black and white for a lot of it.ÂÂ  Some interpretation might be necessary, but I think at that point SHE is going to ask you "what does THIS mean?"ÂÂ  etc..

Just a thought...

They have their own apostate New Translation that was basically written by an excommunicated mystic Johannes Greber RCC idiot.
They changed many verses to suit their flawed theology and this is very obvious since they keep changing it when they get busted.
She will chop and butcher up the King James to suit their agenda on points that "prove" they are correct....   :(
So, it takes patience to illuminate this.
They are heavy into predicting the end of the world and have done so many times, each time with a new excuse why it did not happen.
deep sigh...
I think it is a matter of finding that magical verse that will tug at her.
Or, a miracle.
Title: Re: A Trinity Question
Post by: Dismus on August 16, 2006, 12:03:17 PM
Tom - thanks for your input on this but you misunderstood me. I do not think our traditions are stupid, so while you got a good zinger in due to my lack of clarity, I will admit it did make me laugh, so thank you for the laugh anyway.

Title: Re: A Trinity Question
Post by: EkhristosAnesti on August 18, 2006, 05:58:01 AM
Dismus,

Coptic Patriarch, His Holiness Pope Shenouda III, wrote a short booklet regarding the Scriptural basis for Christ's divinity (and hence His co-equality with the Father, ergo the Trinity), which you can download and read here: http://www.coptic.org.au/resources/Books%20by%20HH/Divinity%20of%20Christ.pdf
Title: Re: A Trinity Question
Post by: Dismus on August 18, 2006, 10:18:35 AM
Awesome link thank you!!

Wow he spent a lot of time tackling the heresy of the JW's!

How nice of him to put a book out just for that.
Title: Re: A Trinity Question
Post by: Dismus on August 18, 2006, 08:28:30 PM
THIS IS THE HERESY THEY BELIEVE ABOUT JESUS!!! :o http://www.watchtower.org/library/g/2005/4/22/article_01.htm

Such an evil cult.......
Title: Re: A Trinity Question
Post by: serb1389 on August 21, 2006, 11:01:19 AM
Actually its kind of funny.  The first page is not that bad.  The theology isn't really crazy or out of the ordinary.  Its when you get to the bottomn and there's a link for a continuation....that's where it gets crazy.  Which makes you think...why put all the crazy stuff on a different page, that if you wern't paying attention to the link, you would never find??