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General Forums => Reviews => Topic started by: _Anna_L on July 05, 2006, 05:01:07 PM

Title: Orthodox martyrs - possible nowdays?
Post by: _Anna_L on July 05, 2006, 05:01:07 PM
We translated an artisle for you - not a single word exist in the net about these monks - they were such outstanding people - one SHOULD know more about their lifes....

Optyna martyrs
 
(http://www.pravmir.com/uploads/resize_of_trofim.jpg)
In the year 1993 the whole Orthodox world was shocked by a tragic event, which had happened in Optina Hermitage: three inhabitants of the monastery were brutely murdered on Easter night. Their names are hieromonk Vasily (Roslyakov), monk Ferapont (Pushkarev) and monk Trophim (Tatarinov).  (http://www.pravmir.com/article_127.html)
Title: Re: Orthodox martyrs - possible nowdays?
Post by: aserb on July 05, 2006, 08:04:11 PM
ONE WORD - - KOSOVO
Title: Re: Orthodox martyrs - possible nowdays?
Post by: Timos on July 05, 2006, 10:52:41 PM
possible? Umm yeah...let's see: many slavs suffered in communist gulags.  In the 50's many (greek and other) orthodox clergy and laity were killed in Constantinople. Depending on your stance of the Copic church, the murders of a town called Al-Kosheh, and now Kosovo.
Title: Re: Orthodox martyrs - possible nowdays?
Post by: _Anna_L on July 06, 2006, 01:36:04 AM
So - well - the article tells about three more martyrs - quite unfamiliar to the English-speaking - unfortunately....
Title: Re: Orthodox martyrs - possible nowdays?
Post by: Salpy on July 06, 2006, 02:12:41 AM
If your definition of "nowdays" includes the past 100 years, then not only is it possible, but more Christians have been martyred for their faith during this time than any other time in history.  Most of those slaughtered have been Orthodox Christians and it is a tragedy of which most people in the West are pretty much unaware:


http://www.serfes.org/orthodox/memoryof.htm


One of the sad things about this article is that it doesn't even cover all of the martyrdom which has taken place in the past century.  There have been other persecutions and massacres of other Orthodox people, in addition to the ones described by the author.
Title: Re: Orthodox martyrs - possible nowdays?
Post by: Sloga on July 06, 2006, 11:25:42 AM
 :'( :'(
Title: Re: Orthodox martyrs - possible nowdays?
Post by: _Anna_L on July 06, 2006, 05:28:16 PM
If your definition of "nowdays" includes the past 100 years, then not only is it possible, but more Christians have been martyred for their faith during this time than any other time in history.ÂÂ  Most of those slaughtered have been Orthodox Christians and it is a tragedy of which most people in the West are pretty much unaware:


http://www.serfes.org/orthodox/memoryof.htm


One of the sad things about this article is that it doesn't even cover all of the martyrdom which has taken place in the past century.ÂÂ  There have been other persecutions and massacres of other Orthodox people, in addition to the ones described by the author.

surelyÂÂ  - The Russian land was really poured with the blood of the holy new martyrs - only at Butovo - near Moscow - thousands of priests were murdered...

And we want to translate some more things about all that. As for the article - it wasn't our aim to tell about all the martyrs :) There are QUITE A LOT OF works in English on the subject, however this page seems to have been left blank... Now it isnt anymore
Title: Re: Orthodox martyrs - possible nowdays?
Post by: Sloga on July 06, 2006, 05:50:49 PM
(http://freeserbs.org/land/Milica_Rakich/img/Milica_Rakich_freska.jpg)

Martyr Milica Rakic, killed at the age of 9 during the 1999 bombing of Serbia
Title: Re: Orthodox martyrs - possible nowdays?
Post by: _Anna_L on July 06, 2006, 05:53:40 PM
Was she glorified (not sure if the word is correct) by the Church??? So little time has passed... And why is she a martyr? Is there any text about her?
Title: Re: Orthodox martyrs - possible nowdays?
Post by: Sloga on July 06, 2006, 06:03:00 PM
I dont know, I know she is considered a saint within the Serbian Orthodox Church, but personally, if you ask me, it's stupid. Purely for political reasons.
Title: Re: Orthodox martyrs - possible nowdays?
Post by: Sloga on July 06, 2006, 06:04:17 PM
my mistake she was 3 years old, not 9
Title: Re: Orthodox martyrs - possible nowdays?
Post by: _Anna_L on July 06, 2006, 06:04:40 PM
I dont know, I know she is considered a saint within the Serbian Orthodox Church, but personally, if you ask me, it's stupid. Purely for political reasons.

What is stupid????
Title: Re: Orthodox martyrs - possible nowdays?
Post by: Sloga on July 06, 2006, 06:06:36 PM
What is stupid????

Declaring her a Martyr, all for the wrong reasons, and surely shes not the only child that has died in an Orthodox country do to brutality.
Title: Re: Orthodox martyrs - possible nowdays?
Post by: _Anna_L on July 06, 2006, 06:09:00 PM
Well - it depends whether there was an official glorification. Sometimes saints can be... well - like a symbol - one representing many...
Title: Re: Orthodox martyrs - possible nowdays?
Post by: Sloga on July 06, 2006, 06:19:45 PM
Well - it depends whether there was an official glorification. Sometimes saints can be... well - like a symbol - one representing many...

I dont know if there was a glorification, but like you said, it makes good sense for her to represent many (casualties during the bombing I guess).
Title: Re: Orthodox martyrs - possible nowdays?
Post by: Bogoliubtsy on July 06, 2006, 06:55:26 PM
Thanks for posting this, Anna.
Title: Re: Orthodox martyrs - possible nowdays?
Post by: _Anna_L on July 06, 2006, 06:57:09 PM
Welcome!!!
Title: Re: Orthodox martyrs - possible nowdays?
Post by: Sloga on July 06, 2006, 07:05:23 PM
Quote
The mother of monk Trofim did not manage to be in time for her son's burial. When the news of his death had come, she was being treated in a hospital after a stroke. The doctors prohibited her from flying by airplane, so she had to travel by train from Siberia


I cannot imagine the feelings she went through..God bless her...
Title: Re: Orthodox martyrs - possible nowdays?
Post by: _Anna_L on July 06, 2006, 07:07:31 PM


I cannot imagine the feelings she went through..God bless her...

And she became a nun later...
Title: Re: Orthodox martyrs - possible nowdays?
Post by: Νεκτάριος on July 06, 2006, 11:20:57 PM
Quote
Martyr Milica Rakic, killed at the age of 9 during the 1999 bombing of Serbia

Not to get so much into this particular case, but why does Orthodoxy use such a loose definition of martyr as to mean anyone who met an unnatural death?  For example, were it to be documented that an Orthodox Albanian had been died as a result of the same conflict would he be a martyr?  Or why is it that people who died for political reasons (i.e the Romanovs) are considered martyrs for the faith? 
Title: Re: Orthodox martyrs - possible nowdays?
Post by: Elisha on July 07, 2006, 01:03:44 AM
[quote author=Νεκτάριος link=topic=9444.msg127071#msg127071 date=1152242457]
Not to get so much into this particular case, but why does Orthodoxy use such a loose definition of martyr as to mean anyone who met an unnatural death?  For example, were it to be documented that an Orthodox Albanian had been died as a result of the same conflict would he be a martyr?  Or why is it that people who died for political reasons (i.e the Romanovs) are considered martyrs for the faith? 
[/quote]

We probably aren't the best to be asking this question of.  Maybe the seminarians here?
Title: Re: Orthodox martyrs - possible nowdays?
Post by: Sloga on July 07, 2006, 01:13:27 AM
[quote author=Νεκτάριος link=topic=9444.msg127071#msg127071 date=1152242457]
Not to get so much into this particular case, but why does Orthodoxy use such a loose definition of martyr as to mean anyone who met an unnatural death?ÂÂ  For example, were it to be documented that an Orthodox Albanian had been died as a result of the same conflict would he be a martyr?ÂÂ  Or why is it that people who died for political reasons (i.e the Romanovs) are considered martyrs for the faith?ÂÂ  
[/quote]

Like I said, the Martyring of a 3 year old girl in Serbia is obviously for stupid political reasons. So in 50 years when USA and Serbia have good ties again, and Bush JR JR visits, Kostunica JR JR will be like "Yea, when you bombe dus you killed this poor 3 year old child. Shame on you."
Title: Re: Orthodox martyrs - possible nowdays?
Post by: Νεκτάριος on July 07, 2006, 01:35:46 AM
Yeah, in this one case the politics are obvious.ÂÂ  In the more general trend, I recall reading a few lives of martyrs that met a violent death but the violence was largely irrelevant to their religion.ÂÂ  Like if I went to Iran and starting singing GOD BLESS AMERICA and was killed I wouldn't be a martyr for Orthodoxy.... I don't think.
Title: Re: Orthodox martyrs - possible nowdays?
Post by: Anna_l on July 07, 2006, 05:41:21 AM
[quote author=Νεκτάριος link=topic=9444.msg127071#msg127071 date=1152242457]
Not to get so much into this particular case, but why does Orthodoxy use such a loose definition of martyr as to mean anyone who met an unnatural death?  For example, were it to be documented that an Orthodox Albanian had been died as a result of the same conflict would he be a martyr?  Or why is it that people who died for political reasons (i.e the Romanovs) are considered martyrs for the faith? 
[/quote]

well - I suppose - each case is individual. It was all clear when a person is killed because he is a Christian - but - imagine how many things can be here - consider - a priest is going somewhere and ... well - after he visited his friend he is slightly drunk - not the best state to die at. And some satanists see him nd kill him because - and ONLY because- he is a priest - will he a martyr? He will be... even if his inner state could be better...
Title: Re: Orthodox martyrs - possible nowdays?
Post by: _Anna_L on July 07, 2006, 05:44:52 AM
Pardon :)
The previous one is my reply - forgot the username:)
Title: Re: Orthodox martyrs - possible nowdays?
Post by: juan on July 09, 2006, 05:28:09 AM
From where is this icon of Milica?
Title: Re: Orthodox martyrs - possible nowdays?
Post by: Thomas on July 09, 2006, 05:48:22 PM
The Holy Royal Martyrs (ROCOR terminolgy)ÂÂ  and the Holy Royal PassionBearers (Moscow Patriarchate terminology) for the Romanov Family are indicative of how their Glorification to sainthood are looked at:

The Holy Royal Martyrs title indicates that A God annointed Tsar, his Tsarina and Children were killed by a Godless (read that Satanic) organization that martyred them because they were God's Annointed rulers. attacked His Holy Church, Martyred Bishops, Priests , Religous, and Laity in an attempt to wipe out the Church of God and it influence. Therefore they are Martyrs along with all others who were martyred.

The Holy Royal Passionbearers title indicates that a God Annointed Tsar, his Tsarina and Children soughtÂÂ  to humbly submit themselves to God will in order to avoid further bloodshed in their beloved country. THe Tsar abdicated to try to prevent bloodshed.ÂÂ  The Tsar refused to call upon others to save himself or his family to avoid/limit further bloodshed. He and his family inspite of humiliation and mistreatment bore that treatment with Christian humility, praying for their captors , and by all reports showing the behavior expected of those who had been annointed by God, and continued Christian Faith until their death at the hand of a Godless (read that Satanic) organization . Their seeking to avoid bloodshed and humble submission was deemed to make them passionbearers much as the Russian Princes Boris and Gleb were.

By these two assertions, they could be called by either name depending upon which you would see as greater importance.

In Christ,
Thomas
Title: Re: Orthodox martyrs - possible nowdays?
Post by: Sloga on July 09, 2006, 07:54:43 PM
From where is this icon of Milica?

She is an offical Saint of the Serbian Orthodox Church brate!

http://freeserbs.org/lat?a=l&doc=/land/Milica_Rakich/Novi_Svetac
Title: Re: Orthodox martyrs - possible nowdays?
Post by: hedley on August 08, 2006, 07:46:35 PM
Anna

Thank you for posting the story of the Optina martyrs.

The story of the twentieth century martyrs can helpt, I think, to open people's hearts to Christianity.

I have often thought it would be a usefull form of evangelism to put the story of their their lives onto the mass media.

Do you know of any that would make good radio plays, plays or movies?
Title: Re: Orthodox martyrs - possible nowdays?
Post by: _Anna_L on August 09, 2006, 04:29:27 AM
Anna

Thank you for posting the story of the Optina martyrs.

The story of the twentieth century martyrs can helpt, I think, to open people's hearts to Christianity.

I have often thought it would be a usefull form of evangelism to put the story of their their lives onto the mass media.

Do you know of any that would make good radio plays, plays or movies?

Well, thats a good question... I think so. Actually, I think that quite a lot of films have been shot recently, but in Russian. And well, I suppose that practically any story or narration can be transformed into such a media thing. We'll soon publish one chapter of a book - it must really be perfect for these aims!
Title: Re: Orthodox martyrs - possible nowdays?
Post by: hedley on August 09, 2006, 09:57:05 AM
I think that quite a lot of films have been shot recently, but in Russian.

It would be grand if the better ones could be subtitled or dubbed in English.
Fancy starting a little internet distrbution business?
Title: Re: Orthodox martyrs - possible nowdays?
Post by: _Anna_L on August 09, 2006, 12:01:42 PM
It would be grand if the better ones could be subtitled or dubbed in English.
Fancy starting a little internet distrbution business?
YEs, I know :) But we hardly have any possibility to do anything except from translating some texts occasionally....