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Moderated Forums => Orthodox-Other Christian Discussion => Topic started by: Jude1:3 on September 14, 2017, 04:10:50 AM

Title: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: Jude1:3 on September 14, 2017, 04:10:50 AM
  I'm seriously asking. These people are everywhere hidden in every single branch of The Christian faith (Roman Catholic, Orthodox and Protestantism).

  Even on this forum I know there are occultists who try and troll and pretend to be Orthodox. You can just tell. In the past couple of years it has become blatantly clear on youtube how many Tares Among the Wheat and Goats among The Sheep there are and many Christian people seem oblivious to it  even when it's right in their faces.

  I just want to know how The Orthodox Church handles these people. It makes me think of Rasputin.

I bring this up because of how many people I thought were Christians, but came to realize that they were secretly acting and closet witches/warlocks.

Thanks in advance.



Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: William T on September 14, 2017, 04:44:25 AM
For starters don't go on witch hunts or be overly suspicious of these kind of things.  If someone comes right out and admits they are some kind of heretic, there you have it.  Other than that, on the internet just engage the issues at hand and try to argue dispassionately using sound theology, history, ethics logic, and things like that.  If on the internet all you have is words to argue and reason with, that's the best way to bring to light true vs false doctrine and worship.
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: Jude1:3 on September 14, 2017, 04:50:02 AM
For starters don't go on witch hunts or be overly suspicious of these kind of things.  If someone comes right out and admits they are some kind of heretic, there you have it.  Other than that, on the internet just engage the issues at hand and try to argue dispassionately using sound theology, history, ethics logic, and things like that.  If on the internet all you have is words to argue and reason with, that's the best way to bring to light true vs false doctrine and worship.


Ok, so in a real world scenario (Actually in The Orthodox Church Building) how do you guys deal with these people ?

About the "Online" comment. When someone has a "Luciferian Theosophy Logo" in their Avatar or a picture of a chick doing "One Eye Symbolism" it's pretty obvious and blatant that they are trying to mock true Christians on the forum.
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: Iconodule on September 14, 2017, 06:34:38 AM
I only know of one person on the forum into theosophy and he has openly left the faith and doesn't post here anymore anyway. For future cases though I find this method to be highly reliable for detecting witches:

(http://images.fanpop.com/images/image_uploads/Burn-her--monty-python-and-the-holy-grail-591498_800_441.jpg)
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: Iconodule on September 14, 2017, 06:36:11 AM
In all honesty a bons fide witch infiltration would be a breath of fresh air compared to the very real infiltration by Nazis, evangelical culture warriors, Austrian economics etc.
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: Jude1:3 on September 14, 2017, 06:41:57 AM
In all honesty a bons fide witch infiltration would be a breath of fresh air compared to the very real infiltration by Nazis, evangelical culture warriors, etc.


Nazis ? As in real Nazis ?

About the Evangelical thing, those churches are infested with these closet occultists.

So, is there an official Orthodox Church teaching about how to deal with and reprimand these people in The Churches ?
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: Alpha60 on September 14, 2017, 06:44:19 AM
For starters don't go on witch hunts or be overly suspicious of these kind of things.  If someone comes right out and admits they are some kind of heretic, there you have it.  Other than that, on the internet just engage the issues at hand and try to argue dispassionately using sound theology, history, ethics logic, and things like that.  If on the internet all you have is words to argue and reason with, that's the best way to bring to light true vs false doctrine and worship.


Ok, so in a real world scenario (Actually in The Orthodox Church Building) how do you guys deal with these people ?

About the "Online" comment. When someone has a "Luciferian Theosophy Logo" in their Avatar or a picture of a chick doing "One Eye Symbolism" it's pretty obvious and blatant that they are trying to mock true Christians on the forum.

if you have concerns about specific members, you can request access to the private forum and denounce them, which is a bit boorish, or you can talk to the mods, which is probably the proper thing to do.

BTW lest my avatar be interpreted as an occult symbol; my tongue-in-cheek username refers to Alpha 60, the villain from the French New Wave film Alphaville, a malevolent computer that I believe inspired the character of HAL-9000 in 2001: A Space Odyssey (HAL was originally to be a robot, and not a stationary "mainframe" computer like Alpha 60).  The specific avatar I use is an emblem on the police cars of Alphaville, which replaces the letter "O" in the word POLICE.

Now, in the actual Orthodox church, Rasputin's presence and growing influence in the Orthodox Church alarmed both the seniormost bishops of the Russian Orthodox Church and the pious members of the laity who were numbered among the courtiers of St. Nicholas.  In the end, a group of noblemen killed him, in a brutal murder which the Church cannot and should not justify.

However, I am certain that he was excommunicated and anathematized years before; the bishops of the Holy Synod risked the wrath of the Czar, or more specifically, his wife, but refused to call him a monk, referring to him as a "cassock bearer."

Practically speaking, regarding members of the Church, if someone starts turning up in church wearing obviously occult jewelry, like Pentagons, an observant priest will llkely have a talk with them.  They might be denied communion.

On one of John Sandfipoulous's blogs there was a lovely story about the conversion of two Gothic occultist teenage boys, one of whom introduced himself to the Priest as Satan.  Through loving-kindness, the Priest rather than driving them out welcomed them, and showed them love, and the boy who called himself Satan returned to using his real baptismal name, and acquired piety, and the two boys were brought into the loving participation in the Church.

We are not the Puritans of Boston.  Our goal is not to hunt witches and burn them at the stake, but to call  them to repentance, literally, metanoia, in Greek, which means, "to change your mind."  We want them to change their mind about the occult, to reject it and instead embrace the Gospel of Christ, the Apostolic faith.  We want to convert them to Holy Orthodoxy and save their souls.

Many people who dabble in the occult experience demonic harasssment or other problems (see fatheralexander.org, which has a good collection of articles on this subject by the late ROCOR Bishop Alexander Mileant, may his memory be eternal).  We can exorcise these demons through baptism or Chrismation.

Demons take flight at the sign of the cross.  Christ has risen, and they are overthrown, now, always and forever.

Praise be to God, Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: Alpha60 on September 14, 2017, 06:47:51 AM
In all honesty a bons fide witch infiltration would be a breath of fresh air compared to the very real infiltration by Nazis, evangelical culture warriors, Austrian economics etc.

Or even worse, the sustained infilitration of extra-diocesan parishes of the Coptic Church by Protestant groups, even in Egypt.  HG Bishop Abanoub of Mukkatam had to step in and throw out a mass of Protestantization which had gripped that church.  I watched a stirring homily of his, subtitled.

Protestants have been trying to hijack the Oriental Orthodox churches since around 1800.  There have been several attempts, and one sustained schism, which led to the creation of the Mar Thoma Syrian Church, which ripped out a portion of the Indian Orthodox Church.
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: Jude1:3 on September 14, 2017, 06:54:17 AM
For starters don't go on witch hunts or be overly suspicious of these kind of things.  If someone comes right out and admits they are some kind of heretic, there you have it.  Other than that, on the internet just engage the issues at hand and try to argue dispassionately using sound theology, history, ethics logic, and things like that.  If on the internet all you have is words to argue and reason with, that's the best way to bring to light true vs false doctrine and worship.
Ok, so in a real world scenario (Actually in The Orthodox Church Building) how do you guys deal with these people ?
About the "Online" comment. When someone has a "Luciferian Theosophy Logo" in their Avatar or a picture of a chick doing "One Eye Symbolism" it's pretty obvious and blatant that they are trying to mock true Christians on the forum.

 the boy who called himself Satan returned to using his real baptismal name, and acquired piety, and the two boys were brought into the loving participation in the Church.

We are not the Puritans of Boston.  Our goal is not to hunt witches and burn them at the stake, but to call  them to repentance, literally, metanoia, in Greek, which means, "to change your mind."  We want them to change their mind about the occult, to reject it and instead embrace the Gospel of Christ, the Apostolic faith.  We want to convert them to Holy Orthodoxy and save their souls.


That's great when the person repents. I'm referring to people who are "Acting" and "Pretending" to be a Christian for many years in The Church but are secretly using Sorcery and the black arts Etc.
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: Jude1:3 on September 14, 2017, 06:58:51 AM
In all honesty a bons fide witch infiltration would be a breath of fresh air compared to the very real infiltration by Nazis, evangelical culture warriors, Austrian economics etc.

Or even worse, the sustained infilitration of extra-diocesan parishes of the Coptic Church by Protestant groups, even in Egypt.  HG Bishop Abanoub of Mukkatam had to step in and throw out a mass of Protestantization which had gripped that church.  I watched a stirring homily of his, subtitled.

Protestants have been trying to hijack the Oriental Orthodox churches since around 1800.  There have been several attempts, and one sustained schism, which led to the creation of the Mar Thoma Syrian Church, which ripped out a portion of the Indian Orthodox Church.



It's interesting that you bring this up because I was watching an Ethiopian Orthodox video on youtube that had a woman speaking and she was making occult witch craft hand gestures and it really bugged me. That is why I'm convinced that they are in every single Christian sect trying to corrupt and destroy from with in.
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: Iconodule on September 14, 2017, 07:09:58 AM
For starters don't go on witch hunts or be overly suspicious of these kind of things.  If someone comes right out and admits they are some kind of heretic, there you have it.  Other than that, on the internet just engage the issues at hand and try to argue dispassionately using sound theology, history, ethics logic, and things like that.  If on the internet all you have is words to argue and reason with, that's the best way to bring to light true vs false doctrine and worship.
Ok, so in a real world scenario (Actually in The Orthodox Church Building) how do you guys deal with these people ?
About the "Online" comment. When someone has a "Luciferian Theosophy Logo" in their Avatar or a picture of a chick doing "One Eye Symbolism" it's pretty obvious and blatant that they are trying to mock true Christians on the forum.

 the boy who called himself Satan returned to using his real baptismal name, and acquired piety, and the two boys were brought into the loving participation in the Church.

We are not the Puritans of Boston.  Our goal is not to hunt witches and burn them at the stake, but to call  them to repentance, literally, metanoia, in Greek, which means, "to change your mind."  We want them to change their mind about the occult, to reject it and instead embrace the Gospel of Christ, the Apostolic faith.  We want to convert them to Holy Orthodoxy and save their souls.


That's great when the person repents. I'm referring to people who are "Acting" and "Pretending" to be a Christian for many years in The Church but are secretly using Sorcery and the black arts Etc.

What makes you assume these people exist? Having interacted with various occultists in my time, they couldn't infiltrate their way into a crowd of besotted  Juggalos. And besides, they are quite happy to do their silliness in the open rather than pretend to practice a religion they hate. Imagine all the terrible cups of church coffee they'd have to drink in order to accomplish... what exactly?
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: Jude1:3 on September 14, 2017, 07:18:10 AM
This was the video I was talking about with lady making witch craft hand gestures starting @14:51
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9AZfHrzqwE
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: Jude1:3 on September 14, 2017, 07:20:55 AM
For starters don't go on witch hunts or be overly suspicious of these kind of things.  If someone comes right out and admits they are some kind of heretic, there you have it.  Other than that, on the internet just engage the issues at hand and try to argue dispassionately using sound theology, history, ethics logic, and things like that.  If on the internet all you have is words to argue and reason with, that's the best way to bring to light true vs false doctrine and worship.
Ok, so in a real world scenario (Actually in The Orthodox Church Building) how do you guys deal with these people ?
About the "Online" comment. When someone has a "Luciferian Theosophy Logo" in their Avatar or a picture of a chick doing "One Eye Symbolism" it's pretty obvious and blatant that they are trying to mock true Christians on the forum.

 the boy who called himself Satan returned to using his real baptismal name, and acquired piety, and the two boys were brought into the loving participation in the Church.

We are not the Puritans of Boston.  Our goal is not to hunt witches and burn them at the stake, but to call  them to repentance, literally, metanoia, in Greek, which means, "to change your mind."  We want them to change their mind about the occult, to reject it and instead embrace the Gospel of Christ, the Apostolic faith.  We want to convert them to Holy Orthodoxy and save their souls.


That's great when the person repents. I'm referring to people who are "Acting" and "Pretending" to be a Christian for many years in The Church but are secretly using Sorcery and the black arts Etc.

What makes you assume these people exist? Having interacted with various occultists in my time, they couldn't infiltrate their way into a crowd of besotted  Juggalos. And besides, they are quite happy to do their silliness in the open rather than pretend to practice a religion they hate. Imagine all the terrible cups of church coffee they'd have to drink in order to accomplish... what exactly?


Theistic Satanists hate The Church so much that they are willing to deceive and play a role to infiltrate The Church and cause problems, Schisms etc.
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: Iconodule on September 14, 2017, 07:23:10 AM
This was the video I was talking about with lady making witch craft hand gestures starting @14:51
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9AZfHrzqwE

Are you kidding? So an Orthodox woman giving a presentation fiddles her hands around while speaking- something pretty much everyone does- and you see this as a sign of occult infiltration? Have you even seen Italians speaking before?
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: Jude1:3 on September 14, 2017, 07:24:32 AM
This was the video I was talking about with lady making witch craft hand gestures starting @14:51
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9AZfHrzqwE

Are you kidding? So an Orthodox woman giving a presentation fiddles her hands around while speaking- something pretty much everyone does- and you see this as a sign of occult infiltration? Have you even seen Italians speaking before?


Check out these videos:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHsYqeyfD1obn0adRqVcCBg/videos
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: Iconodule on September 14, 2017, 07:28:19 AM
This was the video I was talking about with lady making witch craft hand gestures starting @14:51
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9AZfHrzqwE

Are you kidding? So an Orthodox woman giving a presentation fiddles her hands around while speaking- something pretty much everyone does- and you see this as a sign of occult infiltration? Have you even seen Italians speaking before?


Check out these videos:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHsYqeyfD1obn0adRqVcCBg/videos

Okay, okay, you got me. Well trolled. Pretty funny.
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: Jude1:3 on September 14, 2017, 07:30:00 AM
This was the video I was talking about with lady making witch craft hand gestures starting @14:51
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9AZfHrzqwE

Are you kidding? So an Orthodox woman giving a presentation fiddles her hands around while speaking- something pretty much everyone does- and you see this as a sign of occult infiltration? Have you even seen Italians speaking before?


Check out these videos:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHsYqeyfD1obn0adRqVcCBg/videos

Okay, okay, you got me. Well trolled. Pretty funny.


I'm not trolling. You should check them out.
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: Iconodule on September 14, 2017, 07:34:01 AM
I saw a video somewhere explaining how people whose usernames start with "J" (for Jormungandr) belong to an occult cabal working to usher in Ragnarok. How do I know you're not one?
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: Jude1:3 on September 14, 2017, 07:37:07 AM
I saw a video somewhere explaining how people whose usernames start with "J" (for Jormungandr) belong to an occult cabal working to usher in Ragnarok. How do I know you're not one?


I don't know. Ask God about it.

I just want to know if there is an Official Orthodox teaching on this.
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: Iconodule on September 14, 2017, 07:42:29 AM
There is an official Orthodox teaching about bearing false witness, AKA the ninth commandment. If you aren't joking, shame on you.
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: Jude1:3 on September 14, 2017, 07:50:47 AM
There is an official Orthodox teaching about bearing false witness, AKA the ninth commandment. If you aren't joking, shame on you.


Ephesians 5:11 says have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them.

Jude 1:3 says to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints.

The apostle Paul openly rebukes Elymas The Sorcerer who was trying to stop the preaching to Bar-Jesus, in Acts 13:6-12

 Now when they had gone through the island to Paphos, they found a certain sorcerer, a false prophet, a Jew whose name was Bar-Jesus,  who was with the proconsul, Sergius Paulus, an intelligent man. This man called for Barnabas and Saul and sought to hear the word of God.  But Elymas the sorcerer (for so his name is translated) withstood them, seeking to turn the proconsul away from the faith.  Then Saul, who also is called Paul, filled with the Holy Spirit, looked intently at him  and said, “O full of all deceit and all fraud, you son of the devil, you enemy of all righteousness, will you not cease perverting the straight ways of the Lord?  And now, indeed, the hand of the Lord is upon you, and you shall be blind, not seeing the sun for a time.”

And immediately a dark mist fell on him, and he went around seeking someone to lead him by the hand.  Then the proconsul believed, when he saw what had been done, being astonished at the teaching of the Lord.
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: LBK on September 14, 2017, 07:54:44 AM
This was the video I was talking about with lady making witch craft hand gestures starting @14:51
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9AZfHrzqwE

Are you kidding? So an Orthodox woman giving a presentation fiddles her hands around while speaking- something pretty much everyone does- and you see this as a sign of occult infiltration? Have you even seen Italians speaking before?

Seconded. And not just Italians. Many other ethnicities speak with their hands, all without a shred of masonic conspiracy or occultism behind it.

Jude1:3, ISTM you're reading far too much into perfectly innocent hand gestures and behaviors. Not everything on Youtube is true.
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: Arachne on September 14, 2017, 07:55:27 AM
I just want to know if there is an Official Orthodox teaching on this.

'Leave off those superstitions, (wo)man!'

There you have it.
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: LBK on September 14, 2017, 07:57:54 AM
There is an official Orthodox teaching about bearing false witness, AKA the ninth commandment. If you aren't joking, shame on you.


Ephesians 5:11 says have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them.

Jude 1:3 says to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints.

The apostle Paul openly rebukes Elymas The Sorcerer who was trying to stop the preaching to Bar-Jesus, in Acts 13:6-12

 Now when they had gone through the island to Paphos, they found a certain sorcerer, a false prophet, a Jew whose name was Bar-Jesus,  who was with the proconsul, Sergius Paulus, an intelligent man. This man called for Barnabas and Saul and sought to hear the word of God.  But Elymas the sorcerer (for so his name is translated) withstood them, seeking to turn the proconsul away from the faith.  Then Saul, who also is called Paul, filled with the Holy Spirit, looked intently at him  and said, “O full of all deceit and all fraud, you son of the devil, you enemy of all righteousness, will you not cease perverting the straight ways of the Lord?  And now, indeed, the hand of the Lord is upon you, and you shall be blind, not seeing the sun for a time.”

And immediately a dark mist fell on him, and he went around seeking someone to lead him by the hand.  Then the proconsul believed, when he saw what had been done, being astonished at the teaching of the Lord.

All well and good, Jude. But equating innocent hand gestures with witchcraft is simply wrong. There is no "there" there.
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: Jude1:3 on September 14, 2017, 07:58:52 AM
This was the video I was talking about with lady making witch craft hand gestures starting @14:51
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9AZfHrzqwE

Are you kidding? So an Orthodox woman giving a presentation fiddles her hands around while speaking- something pretty much everyone does- and you see this as a sign of occult infiltration? Have you even seen Italians speaking before?

Seconded. And not just Italians. Many other ethnicities speak with their hands, all without a shred of masonic conspiracy or occultism behind it.

Jude1:3, ISTM you're reading far too much into perfectly innocent hand gestures and behaviors. Not everything on Youtube is true.


I wish what you are saying was true. I really do.

When The Holy Spirit shows you the tares among the wheat it's pretty depressing at first because there are so many of them.
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: LBK on September 14, 2017, 08:01:59 AM

I wish what you are saying was true. I really do.

When The Holy Spirit shows you the tares among the wheat it's pretty depressing at first because there are so many of them.

How do you know it's the Holy Spirit showing you this? (genuine question)
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: Jude1:3 on September 14, 2017, 08:02:45 AM
I just want to know if there is an Official Orthodox teaching on this.

'Leave off those superstitions, (wo)man!'

There you have it.

huh ?
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: LBK on September 14, 2017, 08:06:22 AM
I just want to know if there is an Official Orthodox teaching on this.

'Leave off those superstitions, (wo)man!'

There you have it.

huh ?

Seems pretty clear to me Arachne is saying you should stop falling for superstitions.
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: Jude1:3 on September 14, 2017, 08:09:26 AM

I wish what you are saying was true. I really do.

When The Holy Spirit shows you the tares among the wheat it's pretty depressing at first because there are so many of them.

How do you know it's the Holy Spirit showing you this? (genuine question)


Just asking Him Directly. When it happens it's like a neon sign pointing to their hands.

I've actually seen "Pastors" at a Baptist Church and a Church of The Nazerene do this while I was there. I also went to go talk to a Coptic Orthodox Priest one time and I saw him do this.

I've seen it in Orthodox, Catholic and Protestant Churches.
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: Arachne on September 14, 2017, 08:11:58 AM

I wish what you are saying was true. I really do.

When The Holy Spirit shows you the tares among the wheat it's pretty depressing at first because there are so many of them.

How do you know it's the Holy Spirit showing you this? (genuine question)


Just asking Him Directly. When it happens it's like a neon sign pointing to their hands.

I've actually seen "Pastors" at a Baptist Church and a Church of The Nazerene do this while I was there. I also went to go talk to a Coptic Orthodox Priest one time and I saw him do this.

I've seen it in Orthodox, Catholic and Protestant Churches.

We have a word for that (https://orthodoxwiki.org/Prelest).
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: Jude1:3 on September 14, 2017, 08:12:29 AM
Well, I won't bug you guys anymore about it. If you find any official thing on it please post it. Thank you.
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: Jude1:3 on September 14, 2017, 08:15:53 AM

I wish what you are saying was true. I really do.

When The Holy Spirit shows you the tares among the wheat it's pretty depressing at first because there are so many of them.

How do you know it's the Holy Spirit showing you this? (genuine question)


Just asking Him Directly. When it happens it's like a neon sign pointing to their hands.

I've actually seen "Pastors" at a Baptist Church and a Church of The Nazerene do this while I was there. I also went to go talk to a Coptic Orthodox Priest one time and I saw him do this.

I've seen it in Orthodox, Catholic and Protestant Churches.

We have a word for that (https://orthodoxwiki.org/Prelest).


Are you saying that I have Prelest ?
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: Arachne on September 14, 2017, 08:18:59 AM

I wish what you are saying was true. I really do.

When The Holy Spirit shows you the tares among the wheat it's pretty depressing at first because there are so many of them.

How do you know it's the Holy Spirit showing you this? (genuine question)


Just asking Him Directly. When it happens it's like a neon sign pointing to their hands.

I've actually seen "Pastors" at a Baptist Church and a Church of The Nazerene do this while I was there. I also went to go talk to a Coptic Orthodox Priest one time and I saw him do this.

I've seen it in Orthodox, Catholic and Protestant Churches.

We have a word for that (https://orthodoxwiki.org/Prelest).


Are you saying that I'm Prelest ?

I'm saying that we're a lot more wary of claims that someone has a direct line to the Lord than you seem to be.
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: Jude1:3 on September 14, 2017, 08:22:50 AM

I wish what you are saying was true. I really do.

When The Holy Spirit shows you the tares among the wheat it's pretty depressing at first because there are so many of them.

How do you know it's the Holy Spirit showing you this? (genuine question)


Just asking Him Directly. When it happens it's like a neon sign pointing to their hands.

I've actually seen "Pastors" at a Baptist Church and a Church of The Nazerene do this while I was there. I also went to go talk to a Coptic Orthodox Priest one time and I saw him do this.

I've seen it in Orthodox, Catholic and Protestant Churches.

We have a word for that (https://orthodoxwiki.org/Prelest).


Are you saying that I'm Prelest ?

I'm saying that we're a lot more wary of claims that someone has a direct line to the Lord than you seem to be.


I'm trying to be as straight forward and honest as I can about what I've experienced. It's all good. I'm wary of people too because of these things.

Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: LBK on September 14, 2017, 08:24:38 AM

Are you saying that I'm Prelest ?

The term is "in prelest". Prelest can be translated into English as spiritual delusion. A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing. Like seeing occult references in simple, ordinary hand gestures that most of the world's population uses during conversation.

What would be far more beneficial to you is to attend an Orthodox church regularly, and to develop a relationship with the priest there. A good priest should be able to deal with your concerns.



Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: Jude1:3 on September 14, 2017, 08:28:48 AM

Are you saying that I'm Prelest ?

The term is "in prelest". Prelest can be translated into English as spiritual delusion. A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing. Like seeing occult references in simple, ordinary hand gestures that most of the world's population does during conversation.

What would be far more beneficial to you is to attend an Orthodox church regularly, and to develop a relationship with the priest there. A good priest should be able to deal with your concerns.


My challenge has been finding an Orthodox Priest that I trust is legit.

Father God, Lord Jesus Christ and Holy Spirit Most High God lead me to this please. Amen.
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: Arachne on September 14, 2017, 08:31:05 AM
Anyway, if you want something put down in black and white, you won't find anything. The Church disciplines errant children with excommunication (i.e. barring from the sacraments) and appropriate spiritual exercises. If someone confesses to activities incompatible with the faith, they will be suitably penanced and, in due time and repentance, readmitted.

If the so-called occultist is in the closet, as you posit, then they won't confess, and if they partake of the sacraments unworthily, that's on them.
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: LBK on September 14, 2017, 08:32:00 AM

My challenge has been finding an Orthodox Priest that I trust is legit.


What criteria would you use to determine this?
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: Jude1:3 on September 14, 2017, 08:32:58 AM
Anyway, if you want something put down in black and white, you won't find anything. The Church disciplines errant children with excommunication (i.e. barring from the sacraments) and appropriate spiritual exercises. If someone confesses to activities incompatible with the faith, they will be suitably penanced and, in due time and repentance, readmitted.

If the so-called occultist is in the closet, as you posit, then they won't confess, and if they partake of the sacraments unworthily, that's on them.


Thank you for this answer.
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: Jude1:3 on September 14, 2017, 08:35:16 AM

My challenge has been finding an Orthodox Priest that I trust is legit.


What criteria would you use to determine this?


Well, for one not to make those hand gestures while we are talking. I'm not exactly sure about the rest.
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: Jude1:3 on September 14, 2017, 08:37:25 AM
Sorry guys, I wasn't trying to annoy or insult anyone. I apologize if I did.
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: LBK on September 14, 2017, 08:41:40 AM

My challenge has been finding an Orthodox Priest that I trust is legit.


What criteria would you use to determine this?


Well, for one not to make those hand gestures while we are talking. I'm not exactly sure about the rest.

So you're basing the legitimacy of a priest on the basis of a hand gesture made by folks all over the world, most of whom have never heard of masonry or been involved in occult practices. Heck, my own grannies set their hands that way when they talked. Does that mean they were witches in your eyes? 
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: Arachne on September 14, 2017, 08:48:20 AM
Heck, my own grannies set their hands that way when they talked. Does that mean they were witches in your eyes?

All women are witches, and if some don't practise, it's only for lack of opportunity, didn't you get the memo?

https://www.buzzfeed.com/leonoraepstein/quiz-could-you-survive-the-salem-witch-trials
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: Jude1:3 on September 14, 2017, 08:49:51 AM

My challenge has been finding an Orthodox Priest that I trust is legit.


What criteria would you use to determine this?


Well, for one not to make those hand gestures while we are talking. I'm not exactly sure about the rest.

So you're basing the legitimacy of a priest on the basis of a hand gesture made by folks all over the world, most of whom have never heard of masonry or been involved in occult practices. Heck, my own grannies set their hands that way when they talked. Does that mean they were witches in your eyes?


I know not everyone who does this is evil or knowingly doing it.


Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: LBK on September 14, 2017, 08:55:21 AM

My challenge has been finding an Orthodox Priest that I trust is legit.


What criteria would you use to determine this?


Well, for one not to make those hand gestures while we are talking. I'm not exactly sure about the rest.

So you're basing the legitimacy of a priest on the basis of a hand gesture made by folks all over the world, most of whom have never heard of masonry or been involved in occult practices. Heck, my own grannies set their hands that way when they talked. Does that mean they were witches in your eyes?


I know not everyone who does this is evil or knowingly doing it.

There's your answer, then.

I'd go further and say there is no evil at all in the gesture. The evil only exists in the superstitious minds of online conspiracy theorists.
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: Jude1:3 on September 14, 2017, 08:58:41 AM

My challenge has been finding an Orthodox Priest that I trust is legit.


What criteria would you use to determine this?


Well, for one not to make those hand gestures while we are talking. I'm not exactly sure about the rest.

So you're basing the legitimacy of a priest on the basis of a hand gesture made by folks all over the world, most of whom have never heard of masonry or been involved in occult practices. Heck, my own grannies set their hands that way when they talked. Does that mean they were witches in your eyes?


I know not everyone who does this is evil or knowingly doing it.

There's your answer, then.

I'd go further and say there is no evil at all in the gesture. The evil only exists in the superstitious minds of online conspiracy theorists.


There you go :

(http://www.zeenaschreck.com/uploads/3/0/3/3/30334261/358680_orig.jpg)
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: Alpha60 on September 14, 2017, 09:09:17 AM
This was the video I was talking about with lady making witch craft hand gestures starting @14:51
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9AZfHrzqwE

Umm no?  I myself routinely hold my hands in that position, or even with my index and middle finger and ring and left finger separated on both hands in the manner of Spock (or a Jewish kohanim) simply because it is comfortable.  Sometimes when I am speaking (a friend with a sense of satire, after I addressed a Linux usee group on ZFS, commented on the "Double Spock").  No witchcraft involved or intended.

I saw nothing in that video other than a pious reporter announcing in Amharic an upcoming Ethiopian Church Conference.

What even makes you think her hand gestures are considered witchcraft in Ethiopian society?

Ethiopians are extremely sensitive when it comes to practitioners of the occult, with much folklore about the dangers of corrupt magicians and so on, so if this woman, making a high profile video in Amharic was making what the Ethiopians know to be occult hand gestures, I think it would have been noticed and acted upon.

And even if she was, by the way, it could not harm the faithful.  No witch or wizard can touch a hair on the body of one baptized and sealed by the Holy Spirit, who remains faithfully in the flock of Christ.  If I were confronted with the most powerful magician in the world, I would make the sign of the Cross and say "Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, Have Mercy on me, a Sinner," and invoke the Blessed Virgin, and rest with complete competence that my guardian angel, indeed, the entire angelic Host if need be, would intervene to protect me from any forces of darkness the evildoer sought to conjure.

The occult is only dangerous when you seek it out and believe in its power, thus falling into Prelest (spiritual delusion) or becoming posessed by demons in extreme cases.
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: Alpha60 on September 14, 2017, 09:11:46 AM
There is an official Orthodox teaching about bearing false witness, AKA the ninth commandment. If you aren't joking, shame on you.

This is a valid point; Jude1:3; you are making grave accusations against people over what to us appear to be non-occult activities, and this is frankly as spiritually unhealthy as dabbling in the occult.
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: Jude1:3 on September 14, 2017, 09:16:01 AM
This was the video I was talking about with lady making witch craft hand gestures starting @14:51
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9AZfHrzqwE
What even makes you think her hand gestures are considered witchcraft in Ethiopian society?

Ethiopians are extremely sensitive when it comes to practitioners of the occult, with much folklore about the dangers of corrupt magicians and so on, so if this woman, making a high profile video in Amharic was making what the Ethiopians know to be occult hand gestures, I think it would have been noticed and acted upon.



These people are all about mockery and hiding things in plain sight as a form of insulting people's intelligence.
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: Alpha60 on September 14, 2017, 09:16:10 AM

My challenge has been finding an Orthodox Priest that I trust is legit.


What criteria would you use to determine this?


Well, for one not to make those hand gestures while we are talking. I'm not exactly sure about the rest.

So you're basing the legitimacy of a priest on the basis of a hand gesture made by folks all over the world, most of whom have never heard of masonry or been involved in occult practices. Heck, my own grannies set their hands that way when they talked. Does that mean they were witches in your eyes?


I know not everyone who does this is evil or knowingly doing it.

There's your answer, then.

I'd go further and say there is no evil at all in the gesture. The evil only exists in the superstitious minds of online conspiracy theorists.


There you go :

(http://www.zeenaschreck.com/uploads/3/0/3/3/30334261/358680_orig.jpg)

I hold my hands in that gesture, and have since I as long as I can remember.  I have never been a member of any Seth-worshipping group to my knowledge.  Yet you are accusing me of being in the occult, just because some deluded woman and some insignifigant heretical sect happens to have adopted a common hand posture as part of their "magic."

It's absolutely ridiculous.  I think you owe me an apology, Jude1:3, because I hold my hands in that position and have nothing to do with witchcraft or the occult, and never had.

By the way, what church are you a member of?
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: Arachne on September 14, 2017, 09:19:13 AM
That gesture is called 'steepling one's fingers' and is extremely common. Nothing inherently occult about it.

Just because, in that picture, it's Anton LaVey's daughter doing it, doesn't mean she imbues it with anything extra. Doctor Strange does it too. :D
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: Jude1:3 on September 14, 2017, 09:27:10 AM
I already apologized Alpha60.

Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: Iconodule on September 14, 2017, 09:33:57 AM
Perhaps you think you are outsmarting the devil by seeing his designs in seemingly innocuous gestures. But really, by being extremely gullible (in this case, basing your pretended insight on Youtube videos) and simultaneously quick to accuse Christians, you are putty in the devil's hands.

In a way, you both overestimate and underestimate the power of the fallen angel. Overestimate, because you think God is incapable of protecting his church from such pervasive infiltration. Underestimate, because you think the demons work in such obvious, ham-fisted ways as hand gestures and black masses, when their primary mode of influence is through the subtle manipulation of human passions.
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: Alpha60 on September 14, 2017, 09:37:33 AM
Perhaps you think you are outsmarting the devil by seeing his designs in seemingly innocuous gestures. But really, by being extremely gullible (in this case, basing your pretended insight on Youtube videos) and simultaneously quick to accuse Christians, you are putty in the devil's hands.

In a way, you both overestimate and underestimate the power of the fallen angel. Overestimate, because you think God is incapable of protecting his church from such pervasive infiltration. Underestimate, because you think the demons work in such obvious, ham-fisted ways as hand gestures and black masses, when their primary mode of influence is through the subtle manipulation of human passions.

Indeed so, and this, it should be stressed, is as spiritually unhealthy as dabbling in the occult to begin with.
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: Alpha60 on September 14, 2017, 09:38:57 AM
I already apologized Alpha60.

Noted.  But you then posted that picture; I wanted to be sure you weren't likening me to the daughter of Anton LaVey who has lamentably followed an even more deluded path than her atheist father.
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: Agabus on September 14, 2017, 09:42:11 AM
When The Holy Spirit shows you the tares among the wheat it's pretty depressing at first because there are so many of them.

May that this be true and you are not being deceived by another kind of spirit.
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: Jude1:3 on September 14, 2017, 09:43:50 AM
Perhaps you think you are outsmarting the devil by seeing his designs in seemingly innocuous gestures. But really, by being extremely gullible (in this case, basing your pretended insight on Youtube videos) and simultaneously quick to accuse Christians, you are putty in the devil's hands.

In a way, you both overestimate and underestimate the power of the fallen angel. Overestimate, because you think God is incapable of protecting his church from such pervasive infiltration. Underestimate, because you think the demons work in such obvious, ham-fisted ways as hand gestures and black masses, when their primary mode of influence is through the subtle manipulation of human passions.


I like your comment. There's a lot of truth to that.

Let's be real though here, most of The Church actually believes that we are spinning on a ball around the sun when The Bible clearly and plainly says that it is the sun that moves in Joshua 10:13.
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: Arachne on September 14, 2017, 09:47:36 AM
Let's be real though here, most of The Church actually believes that we are spinning on a ball around the sun when The Bible clearly and plainly says that it is the sun that moves in Joshua 10:13.

(https://i.imgflip.com/12p4hm.jpg)
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: LBK on September 14, 2017, 09:49:39 AM
Perhaps you think you are outsmarting the devil by seeing his designs in seemingly innocuous gestures. But really, by being extremely gullible (in this case, basing your pretended insight on Youtube videos) and simultaneously quick to accuse Christians, you are putty in the devil's hands.

In a way, you both overestimate and underestimate the power of the fallen angel. Overestimate, because you think God is incapable of protecting his church from such pervasive infiltration. Underestimate, because you think the demons work in such obvious, ham-fisted ways as hand gestures and black masses, when their primary mode of influence is through the subtle manipulation of human passions.


I like your comment. There's a lot of truth to that.

Let's be real though here, most of The Church actually believes that we are spinning on a ball around the sun when The Bible clearly and plainly says that it is the sun that moves in Joshua 10:13.

The Bible isn't a science text, just as Isaac Newton's Principia isn't a religious text.

Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: Iconodule on September 14, 2017, 09:51:41 AM
Many- maybe most- church fathers accepted that the earth is spherical. The shape of the earth and whether the sun revolves around it or vice versa are not matters of faith. Of course spiritually the universe is indeed geocentric- man is the crown of creation and it was for man that God was incarnate, suffered, and died- but this view is not reliant on any particular cosmological model. Even today, with heliocentrism triumphant, everyone says "sunrise" and "sunset". It's not a falsehood, just a statement of our relative experience of the event from our place on earth. The passage from the book of Joshua is in the same spirit.
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: Jude1:3 on September 14, 2017, 09:51:51 AM
Let's be real though here, most of The Church actually believes that we are spinning on a ball around the sun when The Bible clearly and plainly says that it is the sun that moves in Joshua 10:13.

(https://i.imgflip.com/12p4hm.jpg)


LOL

So The Sun Stood Still,
And The Moon Stopped,
Till the people had revenge
Upon their enemies.

• Joshua 10:13
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: Arachne on September 14, 2017, 09:54:23 AM
Let's be real though here, most of The Church actually believes that we are spinning on a ball around the sun when The Bible clearly and plainly says that it is the sun that moves in Joshua 10:13.

(https://i.imgflip.com/12p4hm.jpg)


LOL

So The Sun Stood Still,
And The Moon Stopped,
Till the people had revenge
Upon their enemies.

• Joshua 10:13

It's called perspective.
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: LBK on September 14, 2017, 09:57:13 AM
Let's be real though here, most of The Church actually believes that we are spinning on a ball around the sun when The Bible clearly and plainly says that it is the sun that moves in Joshua 10:13.

(https://i.imgflip.com/12p4hm.jpg)

LOL

So The Sun Stood Still,
And The Moon Stopped,
Till the people had revenge
Upon their enemies.

• Joshua 10:13

Christ also advised to pluck out one's eye or cut off one's hand if they were the cause of one's sin. Ever heard of metaphors, Jude?
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: Agabus on September 14, 2017, 10:00:07 AM
Let's be real though here, most of The Church actually believes that we are spinning on a ball around the sun when The Bible clearly and plainly says that it is the sun that moves in Joshua 10:13.

(https://i.imgflip.com/12p4hm.jpg)


LOL

So The Sun Stood Still,
And The Moon Stopped,
Till the people had revenge
Upon their enemies.

• Joshua 10:13

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c4/CheckmateProper.jpg)
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: Jude1:3 on September 14, 2017, 10:03:20 AM
You guys ready for some more scripture ?


Thus saith the Lord, The heaven is my throne, and The Earth Is My Footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?
•Isaiah 66:1

 there is nothing new Under the sun. • Ecclesiastes 1:9

To what were its foundations fastened?
Or who laid it's cornerstone, • Job 38:6

It's impossible for a ball to have a cornerstone.
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: Iconodule on September 14, 2017, 10:04:48 AM
Do you also think God has feet? Or is the sky shaped like a chair?
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: Jude1:3 on September 14, 2017, 10:06:54 AM
Let's be real though here, most of The Church actually believes that we are spinning on a ball around the sun when The Bible clearly and plainly says that it is the sun that moves in Joshua 10:13.

(https://i.imgflip.com/12p4hm.jpg)

LOL

So The Sun Stood Still,
And The Moon Stopped,
Till the people had revenge
Upon their enemies.

• Joshua 10:13

Christ also advised to pluck out one's eye or cut off one's hand if they were the cause of one's sin. Ever heard of metaphors, Jude?


I think that He was actually being literal if it kept you from burning in hell forever. As in it made you truly repent from sin.
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: Jude1:3 on September 14, 2017, 10:08:00 AM
Do you also think God has feet? Or is the sky shaped like a chair?

Well, He did make us in His image.
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: Agabus on September 14, 2017, 10:08:50 AM
Let's not get stuck on flat Earth discussion.

We need to find out more about the accidental witches who have been attending our churches.
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: LBK on September 14, 2017, 10:11:47 AM
Do you also think God has feet? Or is the sky shaped like a chair?

Well, He did make us in His image.

You'll have to explain what that means.

Hint: By your logic, people should be sporting wings and other features ascribed to God in scripture.
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: Mor Ephrem on September 14, 2017, 10:17:32 AM
This thread is marvelous. 
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: Asteriktos on September 14, 2017, 10:19:48 AM
This thread is marvelous.

You just think that because you're a crypto-catholic trying to make popes seem "cool" and "hip" and lure away pious Orthodox! Your avatar says it all, buddy, give it up!
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: Mor Ephrem on September 14, 2017, 10:24:00 AM
This thread is marvelous.

You just think that because you're a crypto-catholic trying to make popes seem "cool" and "hip" and lure away pious Orthodox! Your avatar says it all, buddy, give it up!

My dabbling in the occult is limited to an occasional fantasy about fornicating practicing tantra like a good Indian OO at Stonehenge.  Nothing to do with Catholics. 
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: Jude1:3 on September 14, 2017, 10:29:01 AM
Let's not get stuck on flat Earth discussion.

We need to find out more about the accidental witches who have been attending our churches.


Well, I guess my question has already been answered and I thank you guys for answering.

God said the gates of Hell would not prevail against The Church and I believe that, and at the same time we should always watch and know that there are some really bad people out there who have tried to cause schisms and problems for hundreds of years in The Church. The most known would be the schism after the Council of Chalcedon 451 A.D. and the schism of 1054 A.D. God wants Us to be One and not divided.

“I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word;  that They All May Be One, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me.  And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are One:  I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in One, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.

• John 17:20-23
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: Alpha60 on September 14, 2017, 10:58:25 AM
This thread is marvelous.

You just think that because you're a crypto-catholic trying to make popes seem "cool" and "hip" and lure away pious Orthodox! Your avatar says it all, buddy, give it up!

My dabbling in the occult is limited to an occasional fantasy about fornicating practicing tantra like a good Indian OO at Stonehenge.  Nothing to do with Catholics.

LOL
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: Alpha60 on September 14, 2017, 10:59:11 AM
Let's not get stuck on flat Earth discussion.

We need to find out more about the accidental witches who have been attending our churches.


Well, I guess my question has already been answered and I thank you guys for answering.

God said the gates of Hell would not prevail against The Church and I believe that, and at the same time we should always watch and know that there are some really bad people out there who have tried to cause schisms and problems for hundreds of years in The Church. The most known would be the schism after the Council of Chalcedon 451 A.D. and the schism of 1054 A.D. God wants Us to be One and not divided.

“I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word;  that They All May Be One, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me.  And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are One:  I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in One, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.

• John 17:20-23

What church are you a member of?  I asked you that earlier, and would appreciate clarification.
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: Asteriktos on September 14, 2017, 11:19:42 AM
This thread is marvelous.

You just think that because you're a crypto-catholic trying to make popes seem "cool" and "hip" and lure away pious Orthodox! Your avatar says it all, buddy, give it up!

My dabbling in the occult is limited to an occasional fantasy about fornicating practicing tantra like a good Indian OO at Stonehenge.  Nothing to do with Catholics.

Oh really? Well let's just look at some of your recent posts!

Some of my best friends are Roman Catholics

Oh I'm sure.

Maybe he'll have better luck among the Catholics.
Hell, if I can get a few titles like that I'll switch sides.

Really? Hmm.

Roman Catholics are wonderful people and we should all thank God that they still exist because the world would be impoverished without them.  I love Rome.

Well now that says it all doesn't it!
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: Jude1:3 on September 14, 2017, 11:20:14 AM
Let's not get stuck on flat Earth discussion.

We need to find out more about the accidental witches who have been attending our churches.


Well, I guess my question has already been answered and I thank you guys for answering.

God said the gates of Hell would not prevail against The Church and I believe that, and at the same time we should always watch and know that there are some really bad people out there who have tried to cause schisms and problems for hundreds of years in The Church. The most known would be the schism after the Council of Chalcedon 451 A.D. and the schism of 1054 A.D. God wants Us to be One and not divided.

“I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word;  that They All May Be One, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me.  And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are One:  I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in One, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.

• John 17:20-23

What church are you a member of?  I asked you that earlier, and would appreciate clarification.

None at the moment. I've been on a continual search for years.
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: Agabus on September 14, 2017, 11:21:56 AM
What church are you a member of?  I asked you that earlier, and would appreciate clarification.

None at the moment. I've been on a continual search for years.

Then consider that the Devil may have found a way to exploit your wariness in a way to keep you from salvation.
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: William T on September 14, 2017, 11:28:49 AM
For starters don't go on witch hunts or be overly suspicious of these kind of things.  If someone comes right out and admits they are some kind of heretic, there you have it.  Other than that, on the internet just engage the issues at hand and try to argue dispassionately using sound theology, history, ethics logic, and things like that.  If on the internet all you have is words to argue and reason with, that's the best way to bring to light true vs false doctrine and worship.


Ok, so in a real world scenario (Actually in The Orthodox Church Building) how do you guys deal with these people ?

About the "Online" comment. When someone has a "Luciferian Theosophy Logo" in their Avatar or a picture of a chick doing "One Eye Symbolism" it's pretty obvious and blatant that they are trying to mock true Christians on the forum.

They would fall out of communion with the Church.  But if you are the type of person who is inclined to think an institution, much less the Orthodox Church has been infiltrated by and has fallen victim to some nefarious organization you are really putting yourself in an inappropriate mindset.  Your trapping yourself to go down avenues you don't need to go down.
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: RaphaCam on September 14, 2017, 03:51:24 PM
Just asking Him Directly. When it happens it's like a neon sign pointing to their hands.

I've actually seen "Pastors" at a Baptist Church and a Church of The Nazerene do this while I was there. I also went to go talk to a Coptic Orthodox Priest one time and I saw him do this.

I've seen it in Orthodox, Catholic and Protestant Churches.
I do that when I'm speaking about anything difficult. Maybe I'm a casual Freemason.
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: Velsigne on September 14, 2017, 03:55:04 PM
In all honesty a bons fide witch infiltration would be a breath of fresh air compared to the very real infiltration by Nazis, evangelical culture warriors, Austrian economics etc.


LOL!!!
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: augustin717 on September 14, 2017, 04:32:25 PM
Romanian priests often collaborate with wizards and witches or sometimes they practice white or it hcraft themselves.
An old relative of mine, after having tried st Basil's exorcisms for her daughter that divorced but never had a stable relationship afterwards, so after trying those exorcisms and finding them wanting was taken by the priest himself to a local wizard. And thee daughter got married after.
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: Iconodule on September 14, 2017, 04:35:01 PM
Romanian priests often collaborate with wizards and witches or sometimes they practice white or it hcraft themselves.
An old relative of mine, after having tried st Basil's exorcisms for her daughter that divorced but never had a stable relationship afterwards, so after trying those exorcisms and finding them wanting was taken by the priest himself to a local wizard. And thee daughter got married after.

You should seriously start a blog devoted to these little episodes.
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: augustin717 on September 14, 2017, 04:59:29 PM
Here is an orthodox witch that says she Even haș The blessing of The local bishop:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KZvuzfTye9M
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: Alpo on September 14, 2017, 05:40:06 PM
Romanian priests often collaborate with wizards and witches or sometimes they practice white or it hcraft themselves.
An old relative of mine, after having tried st Basil's exorcisms for her daughter that divorced but never had a stable relationship afterwards, so after trying those exorcisms and finding them wanting was taken by the priest himself to a local wizard. And thee daughter got married after.

You should seriously start a blog devoted to these little episodes.

+1
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: RaphaCam on September 14, 2017, 09:37:38 PM
Romanian priests often collaborate with wizards and witches or sometimes they practice white or it hcraft themselves.
An old relative of mine, after having tried st Basil's exorcisms for her daughter that divorced but never had a stable relationship afterwards, so after trying those exorcisms and finding them wanting was taken by the priest himself to a local wizard. And thee daughter got married after.
This sounds so rural Brazilian.
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: Justin Kolodziej on September 14, 2017, 09:42:36 PM
Now, in the actual Orthodox church, Rasputin's presence and growing influence in the Orthodox Church alarmed both the seniormost bishops of the Russian Orthodox Church and the pious members of the laity who were numbered among the courtiers of St. Nicholas.  In the end, a group of noblemen killed him, in a brutal murder which the Church cannot and should not justify.

However, I am certain that he was excommunicated and anathematized years before; the bishops of the Holy Synod risked the wrath of the Czar, or more specifically, his wife, but refused to call him a monk, referring to him as a "cassock bearer."
On the other side, there seem to be more than a few people out there that want to number Rasputin among the Holy New-Martyrs of Russia, even though the current Russian Synod has ruled his canonization out mainly on grounds of debauchery. I suppose prayers for his soul are never wasted regardless of what the truth is.
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: RaphaCam on September 14, 2017, 09:46:50 PM
Romanian priests often collaborate with wizards and witches or sometimes they practice white or it hcraft themselves.
An old relative of mine, after having tried st Basil's exorcisms for her daughter that divorced but never had a stable relationship afterwards, so after trying those exorcisms and finding them wanting was taken by the priest himself to a local wizard. And thee daughter got married after.
This sounds so rural Brazilian, lol
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: Sharbel on September 14, 2017, 10:58:00 PM
All women are witches, and if some don't practise, it's only for lack of opportunity, didn't you get the memo?
I knew it!  :o
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: Sharbel on September 14, 2017, 11:04:18 PM
These people are everywhere hidden in every single branch of The Christian faith (Roman Catholic, Orthodox and Protestantism).
Not always hidden.  At a local Roman Catholic parish, in its website, the services of a Runes practitioner were advertised alongside Confession and pastoral counseling.
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: Iconodule on September 15, 2017, 05:52:37 AM
Here is an orthodox witch that says she Even haș The blessing of The local bishop:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KZvuzfTye9M

Obviously not a witch. She makes none of the appropriate hand gestures.
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: The young fogey on September 15, 2017, 06:15:12 AM
If this occult jazz were true, wouldn't its practitioners literally rule the world instead of being rinky-dink fortune-tellers?
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: Jude1:3 on September 15, 2017, 09:36:35 AM
If this occult jazz were true, wouldn't its practitioners literally rule the world instead of being rinky-dink fortune-tellers?


Again, the devil took Him up on an exceedingly high mountain, and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory.  And he said to Him, “All these things I will give You if You will fall down and worship me.”
• Matthew 4:8-9


It shall come to pass in that day
That the Lord will punish on high the host of exalted ones,
And on the earth The Kings of the earth.
 They will be gathered together,
As prisoners are gathered in the pit,
And will be shut up in the prison;
After many days they will be punished.
• Isaiah 24:21-22
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: Iconodule on September 15, 2017, 09:39:15 AM
You don't need to practice any special rituals or know any secret symbols to worship Satan.
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: Porter ODoran on September 15, 2017, 01:24:26 PM
If this occult jazz were true, wouldn't its practitioners literally rule the world instead of being rinky-dink fortune-tellers?

This is a fairly good point. The Evil One does not primarily accomplish his works by Things that Go Bump in the Night. Rather, he uses the great and the learned as his tyrants and heresiarchs. These are occult only in the sense that they love darkness rather than light, and often veil their power in benign-sounding propaganda. The fascination of some Christians with demonic apparitions and witchcraft is at least very poor prioritization.
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: William T on September 15, 2017, 03:03:54 PM
If this occult jazz were true, wouldn't its practitioners literally rule the world instead of being rinky-dink fortune-tellers?

This is a fairly good point.

I don't know.  I don't really think that's how sin or getting sucked into something like black magic would work.  I think it is more a thing with lots of allure that offers lots of promises that continually don't pan out and dig a person into a deeper and deeper hole.  Generally speaking I would bet horrible spiritual practices are probably going to empirically manifest just like most other things with the same ups and downs we would notice with any broad phenomena.
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: Porter ODoran on September 15, 2017, 04:02:11 PM
If this occult jazz were true, wouldn't its practitioners literally rule the world instead of being rinky-dink fortune-tellers?

This is a fairly good point.

I don't know.  I don't really think that's how sin or getting sucked into something like black magic would work.  I think it is more a thing with lots of allure that offers lots of promises that continually don't pan out and dig a person into a deeper and deeper hole.  Generally speaking I would bet horrible spiritual practices are probably going to empirically manifest just like most other things with the same ups and downs we would notice with any broad phenomena.

Do you believe Satan is the god of this world?
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: augustin717 on September 15, 2017, 04:33:46 PM
If this occult jazz were true, wouldn't its practitioners literally rule the world instead of being rinky-dink fortune-tellers?

This is a fairly good point.
It's what the  Pauline sect originally preached.

I don't know.  I don't really think that's how sin or getting sucked into something like black magic would work.  I think it is more a thing with lots of allure that offers lots of promises that continually don't pan out and dig a person into a deeper and deeper hole.  Generally speaking I would bet horrible spiritual practices are probably going to empirically manifest just like most other things with the same ups and downs we would notice with any broad phenomena.

Do you believe Satan is the god of this world?
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: Porter ODoran on September 15, 2017, 04:35:45 PM
If this occult jazz were true, wouldn't its practitioners literally rule the world instead of being rinky-dink fortune-tellers?

This is a fairly good point.
It's what the  Pauline sect originally preached.

I don't know.  I don't really think that's how sin or getting sucked into something like black magic would work.  I think it is more a thing with lots of allure that offers lots of promises that continually don't pan out and dig a person into a deeper and deeper hole.  Generally speaking I would bet horrible spiritual practices are probably going to empirically manifest just like most other things with the same ups and downs we would notice with any broad phenomena.

Do you believe Satan is the god of this world?

Don't you hate it when you try to post a bit of snippy sacrilege and get the quote-blocks all mixed up?
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: William T on September 15, 2017, 04:50:52 PM
If this occult jazz were true, wouldn't its practitioners literally rule the world instead of being rinky-dink fortune-tellers?

This is a fairly good point.

I don't know.  I don't really think that's how sin or getting sucked into something like black magic would work.  I think it is more a thing with lots of allure that offers lots of promises that continually don't pan out and dig a person into a deeper and deeper hole.  Generally speaking I would bet horrible spiritual practices are probably going to empirically manifest just like most other things with the same ups and downs we would notice with any broad phenomena.

Do you believe Satan is the god of this world?

There is only one God and it isn't some fallen angel, principality, or power.  But that has nothing to do with the topic at hand.  The original quote speculated that if a person practicing witchcraft really could they would dominate the world.  That's not necessarily true anymore than people who are susceptible to lust or avarice.  There are a lot of greedy individuals who try to use money as power but are broke as a joke.  These things are simply tools of temptation of the devil and our own fallen natures, that's it.

The process in which sin dehumanizes is the issue, and in no way shape or form is black magic evidently more dangerous than many other sins or temptations.  This should be basic.  How many Faustian like narratives do we have where the devil makes a bargain with black magic and it gets delivered to the person in the most unsatisfactory way available...it works about the same when you get addicted to fame, money, sex, status, drugs, etc.
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: Porter ODoran on September 15, 2017, 05:05:51 PM
If this occult jazz were true, wouldn't its practitioners literally rule the world instead of being rinky-dink fortune-tellers?

This is a fairly good point.

I don't know.  I don't really think that's how sin or getting sucked into something like black magic would work.  I think it is more a thing with lots of allure that offers lots of promises that continually don't pan out and dig a person into a deeper and deeper hole.  Generally speaking I would bet horrible spiritual practices are probably going to empirically manifest just like most other things with the same ups and downs we would notice with any broad phenomena.

Do you believe Satan is the god of this world?

There is only one God and it isn't some fallen angel, principality, or power.  But that has nothing to do with the topic at hand.  The original quotespeculated that if a person practicing witchcraft really could they would dominate the world.  That's not necessarily true anymore than people who are susceptible to lust or avarice.  There are a lot of greedy individuals who try to use money as power but are broke as a joke.  These things are simply tools of temptation of the devil and our own fallen natures, that's it.

The process in which sin dehumanizes is the issue, and in no way shape or form is black magic evidently more dangerous than many other sins or temptations.  This should be basic.  How many Faustian like narratives do we have where the devil makes a bargain with black magic and it gets delivered to the person in the most unsatisfactory way available...it works about the same when you get addicted to fame, money, sex, status, drugs, etc.

Well, you're wrong there. St. Paul writes: "But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost, in whom the god of this world [ὁ θεὸς τοῦ αἰῶνος τούτου] hath blinded the minds of them which believe not," and St. John writes: ὁ κόσμος ὅλος ἐν τῷ πονηρῷ κεῖται: "The whole world lieth in the grip of the Evil One," as well as similar teaching in his First Epistle. And, yes, it does have to do with the topic at hand, because what Satan wishes to accomplish within the limits set for his purpose by God, he does. Thus we see the very effective cruelty of war and oppression, and the very effective confusion of false education. Yet we do not see any very effective use of witchcraft. Certainly not in proportion to the obsession of some Christians, which I took as Mr. Fogey's point. But I also agree with you to a certain extent, as far as admitting two points, viz., that witchcraft still has its temptations and pernicious effects, and that no man has a guarantee of worldly success even if he commits himself to evil. Now why don't you admit my point that the person who commits himself to evil in terms of ambition and guile has statistically a much higher chance of success than the dabbler in witchcraft?
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: Alpo on September 15, 2017, 05:10:28 PM
occult jazz

Now this would be something!
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: Porter ODoran on September 15, 2017, 05:28:14 PM
occult jazz

Now this would be something!

The Train's wife qualifies ... Discography (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alice_Coltrane#As_leader)
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: Indocern on September 16, 2017, 01:39:30 PM
Most of them are christians.
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: William T on September 17, 2017, 08:58:29 PM
If this occult jazz were true, wouldn't its practitioners literally rule the world instead of being rinky-dink fortune-tellers?

This is a fairly good point.

I don't know.  I don't really think that's how sin or getting sucked into something like black magic would work.  I think it is more a thing with lots of allure that offers lots of promises that continually don't pan out and dig a person into a deeper and deeper hole.  Generally speaking I would bet horrible spiritual practices are probably going to empirically manifest just like most other things with the same ups and downs we would notice with any broad phenomena.

Do you believe Satan is the god of this world?

There is only one God and it isn't some fallen angel, principality, or power.  But that has nothing to do with the topic at hand.  The original quotespeculated that if a person practicing witchcraft really could they would dominate the world.  That's not necessarily true anymore than people who are susceptible to lust or avarice.  There are a lot of greedy individuals who try to use money as power but are broke as a joke.  These things are simply tools of temptation of the devil and our own fallen natures, that's it.

The process in which sin dehumanizes is the issue, and in no way shape or form is black magic evidently more dangerous than many other sins or temptations.  This should be basic.  How many Faustian like narratives do we have where the devil makes a bargain with black magic and it gets delivered to the person in the most unsatisfactory way available...it works about the same when you get addicted to fame, money, sex, status, drugs, etc.

Well, you're wrong there. St. Paul writes: "But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost, in whom the god of this wld [ὁ θεὸς τοῦ αἰῶνος τούτου] hath blinded the minds of them which believe not," and St. John writes: ὁ κόσμος ὅλος ἐν τῷ πονηρῷ κεῖται: "The whole world lieth in the grip of the Evil One," as well as similar teaching in his First Epistle. And, yes, it does have to do with the topic at hand, because what Satan wishes to accomplish within the limits set for his purpose by God, he does. Thus we see the very effective cruelty of war and oppression, and the very effective confusion of false education. Yet we do not see any very effective use of witchcraft. Certainly not in proportion to the obsession of some Christians, which I took as Mr. Fogey's point. But I also agree with you to a certain extent, as far as admitting two points, viz., that witchcraft still has its temptations and pernicious effects, and that no man has a guarantee of worldly success even if he commits himself to evil. Now why don't you admit my point that the person who commits himself to evil in terms of ambition and guile has statistically a much higher chance of success than the dabbler in witchcraft?

1) I don't get it.  I think you would have to let me know what doctrine you are referring to where Satan is the ruler of the world.  He isn't a demiurge, which is how I am reading you. Please refer me to a doctrine you are thinking about so I can see your train of thought, we may be talking past each other.  You could say something like without God we are powerless to resist him and that the world was given up to various powers before Christ's victory which ended the whole thing.  In this sense I am referring to "the world" as the created order which is fundamentally good, no the other way "the world" can be used.  But yes, no doubt the devil is responsible in part for major catastrophes, murders, deceptions, etc as he was even in the beginning.  But if you go look at just basic points of doctrine on evil spirits or the world, it is never outright stated that "the devil rules the world" for example:

"All wickedness, then, and all impure passions are the work of their mind. But while the liberty to attack man has been granted to them, they have not the strength to over-master any one: for we have it in our power to receive or not to receive the attack. Wherefore there has been prepared for the devil and his demons, and those who follow him, fire unquenchable and everlasting punishment." St John of Damascus

Christ came to overcome the "prince of this world" and free us from the chains of prinicpalities, powers, etc which he did...and he was victorious.  History was over the moment He trampled down death by death and restored life.



2) As to a person fully committing himself fully to evil than a halfhearted attempt being more successful...I don't know.  I guess a person with full commitment shows more initiative, drive, stubbornness,and courage those are natural virtues that tend more towards success than half-hardheartedness.  But I don't know how much of that has to do with a persons natural disposition, than with the actual commitment to evil. A person committed to being a heroin addict, the next Ghengis Khan, or Marquis de Sade can burn out in obscurity pretty quickly and in obscurity.  That's a high risk high reward scenario I think...and being that your aim is evil there is going to be a burn out..Spiritually speaking I guess at that point is you may be being kept afloat because other forces have you in their grip and it's useful for them at that moment to keep your enslaved body afloat.


Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: LivenotoneviL on September 27, 2017, 06:00:32 PM
In all honesty a bons fide witch infiltration would be a breath of fresh air compared to the very real infiltration by Nazis, evangelical culture warriors, Austrian economics etc.

You want to go down that path? You want to open the Gates of Hell to let the cockroaches out?

OK....let's go down that path.

Who knows, I'm not technically Orthodox, so what do I have to say about beliefs in the Orthodox Church. BUT nevertheless, I feel it necessary to respond to such a post.

1. What do you mean by Nazis? I feel like, as I've previously expressed, the terms Nazi, Fascist, White Supremacist, Racist, etc., while real ideologies, have become subjective terms in contemporary political discourse which are used to discredit a person's position on the basis of knowing another person's "secret intent." Something which, of course, we are not capable of knowing, which is why Christ told us to not judge people - but in addition to this, I find the claim of "closet Nazi" or "closet racist" to be a claim that is often time unfounded and has no basis in rationality - it is just a term used by people in order to shut people up, rather than putting in some so called "effort" or "thought" into their argument. In my opinion, this toxic argumentation is why the Left has become notorious among the civilian population - with the label of "SJW" and "Antifa" - people were sick of being called names rather than being able to express a contrary opinion.

At any rate, I think such an idea of "AH-HA! I KNOW SECRETLY WHAT YOUR INTENTION IS! I CAN READ MINDS! WE NEED TO STOP YOU!" is what propelled McCarthyism and the Puritan witch-hunts ironically enough.

In any of the arguments where I hear a Trump-supporter or a conservative being called one of these names, there is always an ontological gap that connects the two names.

Let's give a hypothetical.

So, let's say I think the idea of BLM is stupid on the basis that I think forcing policemen to completely, unequivocally ignore stereotypes - and something which I don't think will fix the socio-economic gap between African Americans and White people, a problem that could be fixed by free-market economics and Affirmative Action in this ideology - then someone calls me a racist.
How am I a racist in this case? Do I hate black people? Do I want to reinstate colored bathrooms? Do I want to reinstate slavery? Do I want cops to freely kill black people? How is there a connection?
What about Nazism? Do I want to put Jews in concentration camps?

Another hypothetical:

What if I think that, in American society, the idea of grouping entire ethnicities into classes is stupid when there is a variety of ethnic groups - white, Asian, African American, Latino - who are completely across the spectrum of socio-economic class, which is proof that such systemic configurations of racial oppression no longer exist, especially in the context of Affirmative Action existing?

Does that automatically make me a racist? A fascist? A slave-owner?

So, we can talk about quote on quote "Nazism" growing, but I need to know what exactly is your criteria for being a Nazi. If it is simply voting for Trump, then boy oh boy do we have a conversation coming about how wrong you are, and how your logic is just as flawed - if not even more flawed - than those conservatives who label the left as "Marxist" or "Communist."

2. Evangelical culture warriors - I'm assuming, once again, you are referring to individuals who see an importance of placing "God" in society or those who stand up for Christian morality in the law.
So, the Orthodox Church, as a historical fact, always saw a blanket divide between moral norms and legal norms? In fact, the Orthodox Church historically has always disavowed people who don't see such a separation, and has been silent on issues like the government mandating tax-funded contraception and abortions through organizations like Planned Parenthood?

3. Austrian economics - Although I do not think one can be a complete Christian if they subscribe to a purely capitalistic form of Christianity or a form of the so called "Prosperity Gospel," people believing the end goal of life is wealth - I nevertheless never knew that Jesus Christ mandated that we ought to be Keynesian in our economic systems. Nor did I know that it was the duty of a Christian to, instead of investing in personal effort into helping the poor, but rather to sit back and do nothing but complain about how social structures ought to be changed, until the government puts a gun up to people's head and says "be charitable."

Didn't Christ say give unto Caesar's what is Caesar's and God's what is God's?

While I'm no anarcho-capitalist, I am more of an Austrian economics guy in terms of economic models, nor do I believe it is a Christian's duty to mandate wealth-redistribution. I think we will be judged on how much we personally saw the pain of the poor and how much we did to make a difference in people's lives - not force other people to be charitable for us. I tend to equivocate the image of Christ being a socialist to that of Liberation Theology, an obvious heresy that goes against the Church. I'm not saying you are a Liberation theologian, but the indistinguishability of publicly-mandated charity and private, out of love charity is something that is shared between Liberation theology and your own theology it seems.

(http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/camb.gif)
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: Ainnir on September 27, 2017, 06:09:51 PM
Why?
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: Mor Ephrem on September 27, 2017, 09:10:48 PM
In all honesty a bons fide witch infiltration would be a breath of fresh air compared to the very real infiltration by Nazis, evangelical culture warriors, Austrian economics etc.

You want to go down that path? You want to open the Gates of Hell to let the cockroaches out?

OK....let's go down that path.

Are you alright?
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: LivenotoneviL on September 28, 2017, 10:00:19 AM
In all honesty a bons fide witch infiltration would be a breath of fresh air compared to the very real infiltration by Nazis, evangelical culture warriors, Austrian economics etc.

You want to go down that path? You want to open the Gates of Hell to let the cockroaches out?

OK....let's go down that path.

Are you alright?

That's a question I ask myself everyday   :-\
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: Porter ODoran on September 28, 2017, 01:40:28 PM
If you have to come up with a model where there's "good" and "bad" charity, and "bad" charity is "against the Church," you might need to reconsider your economics loyalties. "Above all things, put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness" (St. Paul). "Ye have the poor with you always, therefore open thine hand unto thy brother, to thy needy, and to thy poor in thy land" (St. Moses).
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: Volnutt on September 28, 2017, 02:07:55 PM
If you have to come up with a model where there's "good" and "bad" charity, and "bad" charity is "against the Church," you might need to reconsider your economics loyalties. "Above all things, put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness" (St. Paul). "Ye have the poor with you always, therefore open thine hand unto thy brother, to thy needy, and to thy poor in thy land" (St. Moses).

Not to mention the fact that the Torah is full of forcible wealth redistribution. How many wealthy farmers honestly wanted to leave the corners of their fields unharvested for the gleaners or to free all slaves and cancel all debts in the year of Jubilee?
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: Porter ODoran on September 28, 2017, 02:33:06 PM
And our wealth is not our own. Theologically, or literally. Anyone prosperous in a modern society has many besides himself to blame.
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: LivenotoneviL on September 29, 2017, 12:43:19 AM
If you have to come up with a model where there's "good" and "bad" charity, and "bad" charity is "against the Church," you might need to reconsider your economics loyalties. "Above all things, put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness" (St. Paul). "Ye have the poor with you always, therefore open thine hand unto thy brother, to thy needy, and to thy poor in thy land" (St. Moses).

Did I condemn "bad charity" (or wealth distribution) as heresy?

Is it really charity at that point if someone has no will to choose to give wealth away?
It's not like the person in question who has his wealth distribution chose out of the goodness of his heart to show love and respect in terms of human dignity - and it isn't beneficial to his salvation.

I mean, I believe governments have a role to uphold human dignity - but where do we draw the line between making living conditions better and economic chialism.

There is a noticeable trend of constantly making public what were once private sectors - and the question is, when do we stop?

And my economic loyalties are a little complex.
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: LivenotoneviL on September 29, 2017, 12:54:17 AM
If someone is a billionaire and chooses not to use that money to make a difference in the life of others with it, it is to their condemnation - and it is something I don't condone. I think it is an absolutely flawed and satanic idea to believe money can lead to peace with God - but nevertheless, I wonder about the efficiency of public goods in providing charity than private individuals - I think Bill Gates has done a lot more to help end Malaria than our public system.
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: Iconodule on September 29, 2017, 06:53:00 AM
You realize malaria has been ended in many places through public projects well before Bill Gates came along, right? And that Bill Gates' project depends on the same?
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: Arachne on September 29, 2017, 07:10:33 AM
There is a noticeable trend of constantly making public what were once private sectors - and the question is, when do we stop?

When those are no longer sustainable.

The more supported all members of a society are, the healthier (in all respects) said society will be.
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: Gebre Menfes Kidus on September 29, 2017, 07:23:22 AM
  I'm seriously asking. These people are everywhere hidden in every single branch of The Christian faith (Roman Catholic, Orthodox and Protestantism).

  Even on this forum I know there are occultists who try and troll and pretend to be Orthodox. You can just tell. In the past couple of years it has become blatantly clear on youtube how many Tares Among the Wheat and Goats among The Sheep there are and many Christian people seem oblivious to it  even when it's right in their faces.

  I just want to know how The Orthodox Church handles these people. It makes me think of Rasputin.

I bring this up because of how many people I thought were Christians, but came to realize that they were secretly acting and closet witches/warlocks.

Thanks in advance.

1. Ignore them as much as possible.
2. Speak Orthodox truth and don't debate.
3. Leave the rest to God.

Selam

Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: Porter ODoran on September 29, 2017, 12:54:17 PM
There is a noticeable trend of constantly making public what were once private sectors - and the question is, when do we stop?

There is?
Title: Re: How does The Orthodox Church deal with Closet Occultists/Witches in The Church?
Post by: Jude1:3 on September 29, 2017, 11:04:54 PM
  I'm seriously asking. These people are everywhere hidden in every single branch of The Christian faith (Roman Catholic, Orthodox and Protestantism).

  Even on this forum I know there are occultists who try and troll and pretend to be Orthodox. You can just tell. In the past couple of years it has become blatantly clear on youtube how many Tares Among the Wheat and Goats among The Sheep there are and many Christian people seem oblivious to it  even when it's right in their faces.

  I just want to know how The Orthodox Church handles these people. It makes me think of Rasputin.

I bring this up because of how many people I thought were Christians, but came to realize that they were secretly acting and closet witches/warlocks.

Thanks in advance.

1. Ignore them as much as possible.
2. Speak Orthodox truth and don't debate.
3. Leave the rest to God.

Selam


Thanks for the answer.

What's a good to prayer to pray against oppressors ?