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Moderated Forums => Free-For-All => Religious Topics => Topic started by: Maria on August 19, 2014, 09:47:46 PM

Title: Are we all Children of God?
Post by: Maria on August 19, 2014, 09:47:46 PM

Consider your priest. Is he more likely to sponsor an ecumenical retreat with Moslems and Jews, or to declare from the pulpit that ecumenism is a diabolical deceit?

Well, we don't usually have pulpits (although the Greeks sometimes do).  I don't even know what we would do at an ecumenical retreat with Muslims and Jews.  If we were making pancakes to raise money to bring peace in the Middle East, I don't know why our parish wouldn't participate in that.  But we wouldn't be about to have some kind of service in which we try to syncretize the Hadith with the Protoevangelion of James, or some such.  That has never happened and it just wouldn't happen.  Now, be aware that some of our hierarchs live in lands where Muslims run the government, and some of those Muslims actively want to kill Orthodox Christians.  And a subset of them are doing so now, quite effectively.  It is therefore in the interest of those hierarchs to befriend the Muslim rulers of those lands (this was the case in Ottoman Turkey from 1453 to 1922, by the way), and to highlight the commonalities of faith between Orthodox Christianity and faith X with them.  That is not so that we can say "we are all the same."  It is instead to help those people see the good in us, so that they don't want to kill us.  And it is also to help our people not to hate those people, but to see that they, too, are Children of God, with at least some truth, although not the fullness of truth that we have in Orthodoxy, and to better love our neighbor as ourselves.

Per Yury's post above, we are all Children of God. Yet, Jewish Voice says that God did not have any children.
Title: Re: Are we all Children of God?
Post by: jewish voice on August 19, 2014, 10:07:37 PM
I said no as a Muslim I believe that humans are created by God but not his children. I'm a child of Adam and his off spring which has a soul that one day be resurrected on the day of judgement. 
Title: Re: Are we all Children of God?
Post by: Maria on August 20, 2014, 12:44:17 AM
Gal 3:26 KJV

Quote
For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

If St. Paul says that we are children of God  by faith in Christ Jesus through Holy Baptism, how can Jews and Muslims also be "children of God" as the Roman Catholic Church erroneously claims.



Title: Re: Are we all Children of God?
Post by: xOrthodox4Christx on August 20, 2014, 01:01:49 AM
Gal 3:26 KJV

Quote
For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

If St. Paul says that we are children of God  by faith in Christ Jesus through Holy Baptism, how can Jews and Muslims also be "children of God" as the Roman Catholic Church erroneously claims.

What about Psalm 82:6?
Title: Re: Are we all Children of God?
Post by: WPM on August 20, 2014, 01:38:33 AM
If you're baptized by your parents as a child and grow up going to church then yes.
Title: Re: Are we all Children of God?
Post by: Maria on August 21, 2014, 02:10:48 PM
Gal 3:26 KJV

Quote
For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

If St. Paul says that we are children of God  by faith in Christ Jesus through Holy Baptism, how can Jews and Muslims also be "children of God" as the Roman Catholic Church erroneously claims.

What about Psalm 82:6?

'You are gods, and all of you are children of the Most High" Psalm 82:6 KJV

Quote
In the Name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, the One God,
Amen. Peace and grace of the Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit.

Dear Readers,
I thought that with the copious posts from
‘Truth’ relating to the post resurrection age that I might post
something about the end purpose of God with mankind. This will only
concentrate on one area-Theosis, (sometimes called Deification in the
Orthodox Church). This is a doctrine that is usually found wanting in
the west and is a ‘major tenet’ of the Apostolic Faith. I have copied
this article from “The Orthodox Study Bible.” New King James Version,
Thomas Nelson Publishers, 1993, page 561, copyrighted.
A side point to note is the Orthodox view of the Fall where mankind’s
creation in the image of God is ‘marred’ as opposed to the view of
totally depraved. Yet perhaps this one is a future post.

© 2000 - 2014 John Mark Ministries. ABN: 89 767 009 464 Entries
read more from http://www.jmm.org.au/articles/3292.htm

Modified to keep in conformity with the rules on quoting articles.
-Mina
Title: Re: Are we all Children of God?
Post by: Santagranddad on August 21, 2014, 02:22:43 PM
I was taught that we are all God's creation and as Orthodox Christians His children by adoption.
Title: Re: Are we all Children of God?
Post by: Maria on August 21, 2014, 02:35:47 PM
I was taught that we are all God's creation and as Orthodox Christians His children by adoption.

Isn't it by Holy Baptism that we are adopted as children of God?

And aren't we fed and nourished with Holy Communion?

So, how can the Roman Catholic Church and Ecumenists say that Muslims are children of God?
Title: Re: Are we all Children of God?
Post by: Mor Ephrem on August 21, 2014, 02:37:31 PM
I was taught that we are all God's creation and as Orthodox Christians His children by adoption.

Isn't it by Holy Baptism that we are adopted as children of God?

And aren't we fed and nourished with Holy Communion?

So, how can the Roman Catholic Church and Ecumenists say that Muslims are children of God?

In Latin. 
Title: Re: Are we all Children of God?
Post by: minasoliman on August 21, 2014, 03:05:09 PM
I just want to remind people to conform to the rules of quoting articles:

* Quoting Other Articles, Websites, etc. -- When linking articles, news stories, etc., please only copy the first paragraph or at most two as an intro text, with a link to the original, so we can obviate any accusations of exceeding "fair use" allowances in terms of copyright. (http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php?action=rules)

God bless.

Mina
Title: Re: Are we all Children of God?
Post by: Maria on August 21, 2014, 03:23:51 PM
Please go to http://www.jmm.org.au/articles/3292.htm again.

In the middle of that article, it is mentioned that by our Baptism we become Children of God.
Title: Re: Are we all Children of God?
Post by: Yurysprudentsiya on August 21, 2014, 03:33:56 PM
"We are all created by God and as such we are all brothers and sisters. We have the same heavenly Father, whatever we call him." 
- His All Holiness Bartholomew, Archbishop of Constantinople-New Rome and Ecumenical Patriarch

That is good enough for me.
Title: Re: Are we all Children of God?
Post by: CopticDeacon on August 21, 2014, 03:52:14 PM
I think we're all children of God. After being Baptized we have the fullness of His fatherhood( or of our sonship/daughtership).
Title: Re: Are we all Children of God?
Post by: Maria on August 21, 2014, 03:53:49 PM
"We are all created by God and as such we are all brothers and sisters. We have the same heavenly Father, whatever we call him." 
- His All Holiness Bartholomew, Archbishop of Constantinople-New Rome and Ecumenical Patriarch

That is good enough for me.

However, the EP is not the Pope, so he is not infallible.  ;D  ::)
Title: Re: Are we all Children of God?
Post by: JamesR on August 21, 2014, 04:09:12 PM
No

Being children of God implies that He is our Father and contrary to what some Evangelicals who drop the term incessantly, it's a serious thing and a privilege.

Don't we in the Liturgy implore God "for the Grace to call upon you as Father..." before beginning the Lord's Prayer?

Sonship comes through Baptism and living the Sacramental life of the Church.
Title: Re: Are we all Children of God?
Post by: Maria on August 21, 2014, 04:10:34 PM
Quote
Because of the Incarnation of the Son of God, because the
fullness of God has inhabited human flesh, being joined to Christ
means that it is again possible to experience deification, the
fulfillment of our human destiny. That is, through union with Christ,
we become by grace what God is by nature-we ‘become children of God’

(John 1:12). His deity interpenetrates our humanity.

Please go to http://www.jmm.org.au/articles/3292.htm.

Thus through our Holy Baptism and Holy Communion, we become Children of God.
Title: Re: Are we all Children of God?
Post by: DeniseDenise on August 21, 2014, 04:12:33 PM
So basically this poll and thread was an excuse for you to tell anyone who disagrees with you that they are wrong.


Got it.
Title: Re: Are we all Children of God?
Post by: Maria on August 21, 2014, 04:13:39 PM

Don't we in the Liturgy implore God "for the Grace to call upon you as Father..." before beginning the Lord's Prayer?

Sonship comes through Baptism and living the Sacramental life of the Church.

Agreed, and with sonship comes the honor to be called "children of God." However, we must be careful not to lose that honor and keep our baptismal garments clean and spotless.
Title: Re: Are we all Children of God?
Post by: Maria on August 21, 2014, 04:14:26 PM
So basically this poll and thread was an excuse for you to tell anyone who disagrees with you that they are wrong.


Got it.

I did not vote immediately. Frankly, I was not sure.

In fact, I waited more than three hours to vote.
Title: Re: Are we all Children of God?
Post by: Mor Ephrem on August 21, 2014, 04:18:09 PM
In fact, I waited more than three hours to vote.

Oh, blessed discernment.
Title: Re: Are we all Children of God?
Post by: Yurysprudentsiya on August 21, 2014, 04:23:21 PM
"We are all created by God and as such we are all brothers and sisters. We have the same heavenly Father, whatever we call him." 
- His All Holiness Bartholomew, Archbishop of Constantinople-New Rome and Ecumenical Patriarch

That is good enough for me.

However, the EP is not the Pope, so he is not infallible.  ;D  ::)

Neither is the Pope.  But of course neither is always wrong, either. 

However, the EP was until recently my Patriarch.  He is still First Among Equals in my communion.   I have read his writings and take much inspiration from him.   
Title: Re: Are we all Children of God?
Post by: minasoliman on August 21, 2014, 04:27:20 PM
Genesis 6 made reference to the sons of God.  A lot of ancient Jewish commentators had no problem with that referring to the sons of Seth, which seems to be, according to tradition, what we all are.
Title: Re: Are we all Children of God?
Post by: Alveus Lacuna on August 21, 2014, 05:02:22 PM
No

Being children of God implies that He is our Father and contrary to what some Evangelicals who drop the term incessantly, it's a serious thing and a privilege.

Don't we in the Liturgy implore God "for the Grace to call upon you as Father..." before beginning the Lord's Prayer?

Sonship comes through Baptism and living the Sacramental life of the Church.

Very true.