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Moderated Forums => Oriental Orthodox Discussion => Topic started by: Anastasia1 on December 16, 2013, 12:51:07 AM

Title: Sleeveless shirts
Post by: Anastasia1 on December 16, 2013, 12:51:07 AM
outside of liturgy of course, yay or nay?
Title: Re: Sleeveless shirts
Post by: LBK on December 16, 2013, 12:52:26 AM
Why not?
Title: Re: Sleeveless shirts
Post by: Altar Server on December 16, 2013, 01:25:06 AM
Why not?
+1 as long as they are not terribly immodest
Title: Re: Sleeveless shirts
Post by: Anastasia1 on January 15, 2014, 10:58:38 PM
What along those lines would be immodest?
Title: Re: Sleeveless shirts
Post by: LBK on January 15, 2014, 11:04:39 PM
What along those lines would be immodest?

Thin straps and revealing necklines come to mind for starters.
Title: Re: Sleeveless shirts
Post by: Santagranddad on January 15, 2014, 11:07:53 PM
I would never enter a place of worship in a sleeveless shirt.
Title: Re: Sleeveless shirts
Post by: LBK on January 15, 2014, 11:09:17 PM
I would never enter a place of worship in a sleeveless shirt.

Anastasia can correct me if need be, but I took her OP as referring to women's wear.
Title: Re: Sleeveless shirts
Post by: Santagranddad on January 15, 2014, 11:14:40 PM
My point is that a sleeveless shirt in Church is not suitable attire for either men or women. Indeed in India I wore a blazer when visiting places of worship, out of respect.
Title: Re: Sleeveless shirts
Post by: Mor Ephrem on January 15, 2014, 11:39:38 PM
My point is that a sleeveless shirt in Church is not suitable attire for either men or women. Indeed in India I wore a blazer when visiting places of worship, out of respect.

In my experience, people don't wear sleeveless garments to church there.  "Short sleeves", yes, but certainly nothing that involve revealing necklines or exposed shoulders.  I know of cases where girls buy Western style sleeveless wedding gowns and show up to church only to have the priest or bishop read them the riot act, often in front of all the guests, and refuse to begin the wedding until they are appropriately attired. 
Title: Re: Sleeveless shirts
Post by: Asteriktos on January 15, 2014, 11:58:10 PM
I took "outside of liturgy" in the OP to mean outside of church services generally. Was I mistaken in that?
Title: Re: Sleeveless shirts
Post by: LBK on January 15, 2014, 11:59:42 PM
I took "outside of liturgy" in the OP to mean outside of church services generally. Was I mistaken in that?

I took it that way as well. I hope Anastasia chimes in.
Title: Re: Sleeveless shirts
Post by: Anastasia1 on January 16, 2014, 02:00:16 AM
I took "outside of liturgy" in the OP to mean outside of church services generally. Was I mistaken in that?
No, you were not mistaken.
Title: Re: Sleeveless shirts
Post by: wainscottbl on January 16, 2014, 02:49:04 AM
Coming from the SSPX side into Eastern Orthodoxy I want to take the middle ground. I am not going to say that stupid thing that pretentious trads say: "Can you picture the Virgin Mary wearing that?" No, I would like to say, but I can't picture in what you are wearing either so....but I would just consider your neigbour. I do not think it should be a terrible temptation for a normal man as long as we are not talking cleavage, middrift, etc. Something like this would be fine, I think:

(http://www.pinksandgreens.com/media/catalog/product/cache/21/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/5/8/5818da.jpg)

I assume it is something similar to that. Trying to be less rigorous it's hard for me, but I am inclined to say I would not be too concerned. The traditional Catholics can be not only so rigorous on the matter but legalistic. Like what I posted is a venial sin. Something showing middrift and cleavage would be a mortal sin. I really think you're fine outside of liturgy, though some of the writings of the early fathers may make you think different like "On The Apparel of Women"http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0402.htm  (http://"On The Apparel of Women"http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0402.htm)by Tertullian
Title: Re: Sleeveless shirts
Post by: wainscottbl on January 16, 2014, 02:51:07 AM
And the link from Tertullian was meant half as a joke, but of course halfway for your benefit, my lady. Can never go wrong with the fathers, though some of it must be taken in the right spirit. It can be read to the point of hypocritical rigor and scruple against wearing even makeup or putting on earrings. The golden mean is golden though.
Title: Re: Sleeveless shirts
Post by: Dominika on January 16, 2014, 03:30:16 PM
To church or for any church service - definitely not, both for men and women.
Other places and occasions - I don't see nothing wrong in wearing sleeveless shirts.

As for shirts with short sleeves, I do wear them to church
Title: Re: Sleeveless shirts
Post by: Mor Ephrem on January 16, 2014, 04:12:27 PM
Other places and occasions - I don't see nothing wrong in wearing sleeveless shirts.

Depends on the arms.  ;)
Title: Re: Sleeveless shirts
Post by: Dominika on January 16, 2014, 04:24:20 PM
Other places and occasions - I don't see nothing wrong in wearing sleeveless shirts.

Depends on the arms.  ;)

I don't think so. If somebody finds it's wrong, it's a problem of particular man ;) At least I don't feel I'm doing something inappropriate when I'm wearing a sleeveless shirt
Title: Re: Sleeveless shirts
Post by: mike on January 16, 2014, 04:24:58 PM
Not for males.
Title: Re: Sleeveless shirts
Post by: Cyrillic on January 16, 2014, 04:27:11 PM
Other places and occasions - I don't see nothing wrong in wearing sleeveless shirts.

Depends on the arms.  ;)

Depends on the armpits, I'd say.

Not for males.

+1
Title: Re: Sleeveless shirts
Post by: Alpo on January 16, 2014, 04:28:48 PM
The only canonically kosher form is telnayshka.

(http://ns1.sovietarmystuff.com/sites/default/files/006a8b185168_2.jpg)
Title: Re: Sleeveless shirts
Post by: Dominika on January 16, 2014, 04:30:24 PM
Other places and occasions - I don't see nothing wrong in wearing sleeveless shirts.

Depends on the arms.  ;)

Depends on the armpits, I'd say.

:laugh:

Not for males.

???
Title: Re: Sleeveless shirts
Post by: orthonorm on January 16, 2014, 05:06:20 PM
I do not think it should be a terrible temptation for a normal man as long as we are not talking cleavage, middrift, etc.

Here we go, placing the foibles of some men on all women. You could bring a woman into my presence naked. I would be OK. If most men are honest, arousal which is not temptation, is an irreducibly complex phenomenon. Men who want to pretend to be foreverpotent will exaggerate the effect of the appearance of a woman on their psyche. 

Most women are sensible. When in Rome . . . Frankly, when women step outside the norm, it is rarely provocative in an arousing manner but rather in an uncomfortable manner. For example, my once seeing a woman wearing to what amounted to a transparent dress to a DL. I could have told you the cut and color of her underwear. I wasn't aroused, just a little unsure of how to act to mitigate her embarrassment before I told her later of her clothing predicament.

Everyone who was "too shy" to do what I did, I asked some women to talk to her, none were particularly aroused or angry, just wanted to avoid embarrassing her. 

I guess it was a dress that didn't look see through up close and when wearing it.

Now, if you take the same situation and place it in place where sex is the reason for being there, a club or whatever. Then it is quite different. But then, it is also NBD cause that is reason why everyone is there.

When in Rome. Guys who are forever tempted will be no matter what you do and in my experience the more society capitulates to that "weakness" the worse it makes the weakness, not better.
Title: Re: Sleeveless shirts
Post by: vamrat on January 16, 2014, 05:35:02 PM
The only canonically kosher form is telnayshka.

(http://ns1.sovietarmystuff.com/sites/default/files/006a8b185168_2.jpg)

Truth. Otherwise, men should never be in sleeveless shirts in public.  My brother makes fun of me once for wearing a wifebeater once at home when a friend of his was over.  Then again, that could be because there was a hole the size of my stomach in it (pretty big, FYI).  Still, sleeves or go home (and put sleeves on).
Title: Re: Sleeveless shirts
Post by: vamrat on January 16, 2014, 05:36:15 PM
Other places and occasions - I don't see nothing wrong in wearing sleeveless shirts.

Depends on the arms.  ;)

I don't think so. If somebody finds it's wrong, it's a problem of particular man ;) At least I don't feel I'm doing something inappropriate when I'm wearing a sleeveless shirt

Still, there is a problem with some people showing too much.  (By too much I mean quantity, not quality.  Or maybe it's the other way around.  If you arms are wider than my torso, please, have decency.)
Title: Re: Sleeveless shirts
Post by: ZealousZeal on January 16, 2014, 06:21:55 PM
Not a fan of tank tops on guys in general, for some reason. For girls, I think it's fine.
Title: Re: Sleeveless shirts
Post by: Anastasia1 on January 16, 2014, 11:11:09 PM
Would it be immodest to take off one's sweater in the car in the middle of summer (or at least pretty hot) when one is in mixed company and one is wearing a spaghetti strap dress?
Title: Re: Sleeveless shirts
Post by: Mor Ephrem on January 16, 2014, 11:49:42 PM
Would it be immodest to take off one's sweater in the car in the middle of summer (or at least pretty hot) when one is in mixed company and one is wearing a spaghetti strap dress?

God will surely bless you, Anastasia.  You think and care more about these details than I do, and if modesty has taken that much root in your soul, it will be reflected outwardly, even on a hot day when you have to take off your sweater lest you faint. 
Title: Re: Sleeveless shirts
Post by: Arachne on January 17, 2014, 03:32:28 AM
I like cap sleeves best. The not-quite-sleeveless effect flatters everyone. Like this:

(http://www.jabongworld.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/b/l/black-cap-sleeve-top-b70f9a86799291f3ef6d2ccf8248a7f0.jpg)
Title: Re: Sleeveless shirts
Post by: LBK on January 17, 2014, 03:42:58 AM
mistaken post ....
Title: Re: Sleeveless shirts
Post by: Alpo on January 17, 2014, 04:57:47 AM
mistaken post ....

You was about to post an icon with a saint wearing sleeveless shirt?
Title: Re: Sleeveless shirts
Post by: LBK on January 17, 2014, 04:59:43 AM
mistaken post ....

You was about to post an icon with a saint wearing sleeveless shirt?

Nope. Nice try.  ;)
Title: Re: Sleeveless shirts
Post by: Salpy on January 18, 2014, 03:40:26 AM
A tangent about other kinds of clothing besides sleeveless shirts was moved to here:

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,56120.0.html#top
Title: Re: Sleeveless shirts
Post by: NicholasMyra on January 18, 2014, 09:07:11 PM
I like cap sleeves best. The not-quite-sleeveless effect flatters everyone. Like this:

(http://www.jabongworld.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/b/l/black-cap-sleeve-top-b70f9a86799291f3ef6d2ccf8248a7f0.jpg)
I've never seen a white woman make this particular pose before. Maybe when mocking how young men pose.
Title: Re: Sleeveless shirts
Post by: Maria on January 18, 2014, 09:37:28 PM
My point is that a sleeveless shirt in Church is not suitable attire for either men or women. Indeed in India I wore a blazer when visiting places of worship, out of respect.

In my experience, people don't wear sleeveless garments to church there.  "Short sleeves", yes, but certainly nothing that involve revealing necklines or exposed shoulders.  I know of cases where girls buy Western style sleeveless wedding gowns and show up to church only to have the priest or bishop read them the riot act, often in front of all the guests, and refuse to begin the wedding until they are appropriately attired. 

In the small OCA church I used to attend, women, particularly old women having hot flashes would wear sleeveless dresses or blouses that exposed their sagging arm muscles. Then they would ceaselessly fan themselves. In spite of it all, we were glad that they made it to church as the church lacked a decent air conditioning system, and that was hard on them.

Title: Re: Sleeveless shirts
Post by: Anastasia1 on January 19, 2014, 05:03:36 AM
I like cap sleeves best. The not-quite-sleeveless effect flatters everyone. Like this:

(http://www.jabongworld.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/b/l/black-cap-sleeve-top-b70f9a86799291f3ef6d2ccf8248a7f0.jpg)
I've never seen a white woman make this particular pose before. Maybe when mocking how young men pose.
You've seen non-white women do it?
Title: Re: Sleeveless shirts
Post by: Maria on January 19, 2014, 03:56:44 PM
I like cap sleeves best. The not-quite-sleeveless effect flatters everyone. Like this:

(http://www.jabongworld.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/b/l/black-cap-sleeve-top-b70f9a86799291f3ef6d2ccf8248a7f0.jpg)
I've never seen a white woman make this particular pose before. Maybe when mocking how young men pose.
You've seen non-white women do it?

Is this picture taken of a model? If so, it was the photographer's suggested pose, nothing more.
Title: Re: Sleeveless shirts
Post by: NicholasMyra on January 20, 2014, 02:38:56 AM

You've seen non-white women do it?
Something akin to it, yeah