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Moderated Forums => Liturgy => Topic started by: Studying_Orthodoxy on November 21, 2013, 02:22:17 PM

Title: What Rite Did The Slavs And Caucasus Take?
Post by: Studying_Orthodoxy on November 21, 2013, 02:22:17 PM
I am interested to know what rite the Slavic lands like Bulgaria, Rus, Serbia and the Caucasus countries such as Georgia, Abkhazia and others took. Did they take theirs directly from the Byzantine rite and then develop on from there?
 
Is the issue of the Byzantine Rite based around the fact that Western Christianity developed its own non-Byzantine traditions and therefore it cannot simply adopt Byzantine rite because this would be abandoning such a heritage?
Title: Re: What Rite Did The Slavs And Caucasus Take?
Post by: mike on November 22, 2013, 10:43:37 AM
I was told that the original Slavic rite introduced by St. Cyril a Methodius was neither Byzantine, nor Latin but something in between. And it was latinised and byzaninised (defending where) only later.

And I suppose Georgians have something similar to Armenians. No idea where did they get Byzantine, though.
Title: Re: What Rite Did The Slavs And Caucasus Take?
Post by: Shanghaiski on November 22, 2013, 10:55:25 AM
AFAIK, the Georgians follow the Constantinopolitan Rite with some local variations. This is due to Byzantine influence, which overtook the Armenian influence.
Title: Re: What Rite Did The Slavs And Caucasus Take?
Post by: mike on November 22, 2013, 10:57:02 AM
AFAIK, the Georgians follow the Constantinopolitan Rite with some local variations. This is due to Byzantine influence, which overtook the Armenian influence.

But when? How? Why?
Title: Re: What Rite Did The Slavs And Caucasus Take?
Post by: ialmisry on November 22, 2013, 11:19:45 AM
I was told that the original Slavic rite introduced by St. Cyril a Methodius was neither Byzantine, nor Latin but something in between. And it was latinised and byzaninised (defending where) only later.

And I suppose Georgians have something similar to Armenians. No idea where did they get Byzantine, though.
The Georgians (like the Armenians) were first Jerusalemite: the reconstruction of the rite depends on the Armenian and Georgian translations of it.  Constantinople influence came in the ending centuries of the first millenium-the Macedonian Renaissance (867-1056) was actually the work of Armenians, working of the increasing intermarriage of the imperial family with ruling families in the Caucasus since Constantine V's marriage on his father Leo III's rise to the purple in 720.
Title: Re: What Rite Did The Slavs And Caucasus Take?
Post by: Shanghaiski on November 22, 2013, 11:23:02 AM
AFAIK, the Georgians follow the Constantinopolitan Rite with some local variations. This is due to Byzantine influence, which overtook the Armenian influence.

But when? How? Why?

The Church of Georgia was influenced by that of Armenia due to cultural and political ties, and also religious ties, though it was under Antioch until gaining autocephaly in the 5th century (IIRC). When Georgia firmly embraced Chalcedon in the 6th century, they broke religious ties with Armenia. From the 10th century, IIRC, Georgia was in the political sphere of influence of the Byzantine Empire.
Title: Re: What Rite Did The Slavs And Caucasus Take?
Post by: Christopher McAvoy on November 24, 2013, 06:09:51 PM
There's no question that Georgia never had significant if any latin rite connections in liturgy.

I think this view is true though for Slovakia/Moravia and Croatia, in those regions it seems Cyril and Methodius introduced a Latin rite translated into Slavonic. Within two centuries after the eastern Franks/Germans/Ottonian empire controlled them politically they tried to switch it back to latin again, which was the cause of much consternation and strife. To some extent it seemed to leave them more open toward the protestant reformation in those regions, having long time frustrations with Rome and it's germanic leaning prelates/nobles. Moravia later became a famous protestant region..

That is a very interesting topic, regarding what SS. Cyril and Methodius introduced, and where. I always ment to read a book about it. Someday !
Title: Re: What Rite Did The Slavs And Caucasus Take?
Post by: Deacon Lance on November 25, 2013, 05:48:38 PM
I was told that the original Slavic rite introduced by St. Cyril a Methodius was neither Byzantine, nor Latin but something in between. And it was latinised and byzaninised (defending where) only later.

And I suppose Georgians have something similar to Armenians. No idea where did they get Byzantine, though.
I think it quite probable that they plugged the Roman Anaphora (and possibly other Roman prayers) into the Byzantine Liturgy that they normally served. Less probable, although not completely so, is that they translated both Liturgies into Slavonic and used both