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Moderated Forums => Free-For-All => Non-Religious Topics => Topic started by: Shiny on July 28, 2013, 02:06:57 PM

Title: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Shiny on July 28, 2013, 02:06:57 PM
This weirds me out because the whole uncanny valley thing. Supposedly there was a donation for 40K for the vaginoplasty, which gives me chills thinking about it...

(http://i.imgur.com/V1gXxrU.jpg)

Yeah the one on the left born a woman and the one on the right a man

(http://i.imgur.com/i3c1Gru.jpg?1)

Apparently their parents are supportive, or atleast her mom is.

But I don't know this is just insane to me. Who would give 40K for surgery like that?
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Asteriktos on July 28, 2013, 02:11:42 PM
But I don't know this is just insane to me. Who would give 40K for surgery like that?

I take it you're not familiar with the majority of kickstarter things then?  8)
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Arachne on July 28, 2013, 02:23:30 PM
Is it the idea of a vaginoplasty that gives you chills, or the fact that it costs 40 grand?
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Asteriktos on July 28, 2013, 02:24:59 PM
The person on the left is a better looking "dude" than me, by far.

[edit]
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Ionnis on July 28, 2013, 02:25:56 PM
But I don't know this is just insane to me. Who would give 40K for surgery like that?

Evidently someone who has $40,000 to spare and who sympathizes with the cause.  That isn't apparent to you?
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Shanghaiski on July 28, 2013, 03:31:19 PM
You always hear about how people are so happy now that they had that thing cut off, but you never hear about the cruel side effects. Stories like this are all about marketing.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Shiny on July 28, 2013, 05:45:37 PM
Is it the idea of a vaginoplasty that gives you chills, or the fact that it costs 40 grand?
The former.

I mean how exactly do you urinate afterwards?

Actually it's probably best no knowing.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: c.warren165 on July 28, 2013, 09:08:44 PM
I wish them all the best and hope they find all happiness in life.

-c
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: SolEX01 on July 28, 2013, 09:27:39 PM
Was one of them Justin Bieber with dark hair?
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: DeniseDenise on July 28, 2013, 09:44:03 PM
All other things aside (because I don't really believe a debate about the -rightness- or not is needed here)

What was the point in posting this other than to 'stare and point at the freaks'?

I am not saying we should accept such things as normal, but we should also have mercy and compassion.  And in my mind that means not poking fun of people, misguided, lost, or in sin.

Pray for them, yes. Poke fun no.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: TheMathematician on July 28, 2013, 09:51:05 PM
Is it the idea of a vaginoplasty that gives you chills, or the fact that it costs 40 grand?
The former.

I mean how exactly do you urinate afterwards?

Actually it's probably best no knowing.

They reroute the urniary tract during the surgery.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: GabrieltheCelt on July 28, 2013, 10:00:06 PM
I realize that after the Fall, there were many physical and psychological problems that happened to us.  However, it seems that this type of operation is a gross violation of God's laws.  If a person was born a man or a woman, that won't change in God's eyes no matter what the doctor's cut off or hormone therapy they go through.  I can't see this type of operation as something our Hierarchs would approve of.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: GabrieltheCelt on July 28, 2013, 10:01:33 PM
All other things aside (because I don't really believe a debate about the -rightness- or not is needed here)

What was the point in posting this other than to 'stare and point at the freaks'?

I am not saying we should accept such things as normal, but we should also have mercy and compassion.  And in my mind that means not poking fun of people, misguided, lost, or in sin.

Pray for them, yes. Poke fun no.

 + 1.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: yeshuaisiam on July 28, 2013, 10:26:04 PM
All other things aside (because I don't really believe a debate about the -rightness- or not is needed here)

What was the point in posting this other than to 'stare and point at the freaks'?

I am not saying we should accept such things as normal, but we should also have mercy and compassion.  And in my mind that means not poking fun of people, misguided, lost, or in sin.

Pray for them, yes. Poke fun no.

 + 1.

+2
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Ionnis on July 28, 2013, 10:30:01 PM
Some believe that as followers of Christ we should objectify, belittle, and persecute sinners, but only those sinners who struggle with sins that deviate too far from the "normal" and "acceptable" ones.  To refuse to do so means one is a god-hating liberal who not only condones, but actively promotes, all manner of sexual immorality and evil.  While people who hold this mentality would disagree with my assessment of their view, and perhaps rightfully so in some cases, as i'm making a generalization, for all intents and purposes, it is in fact how many operate.  Such a mentality pervades certain corners of the Church.  However, many people are too scared to say anything lest they be called unorthodox or "liberal."  And well, a lot of people dislike confrontation so when they hear or see this mentality being expressed in Church, amongst friends and family, on message boards, etc. they remain silent.  Until recently, I've been quite passive as I am a generally quiet and timid person, but no more.  A couple months back a local child killed himself after being taunted for the preceding 8 months.  Almost everyone responsible for his care knew what was happening but no one intervened because to do so would have required confrontation and well, for some of the people charged with his care, it would have been politically inexpedient to intervene and as one person put it, "they couldn't promote such a lifestyle."  If we cannot see Christ in the least of these, which is what happens anytime we objectify any person(s), then we are terribly, terribly lost and the love of God is not in us.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Kerdy on July 28, 2013, 10:46:41 PM
I wish them all the best and hope they find all happiness in life.

-c
I hope they find Jesus.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: GabrieltheCelt on July 28, 2013, 10:50:13 PM
Some believe that as followers of Christ we should objectify, belittle, and persecute sinners, but only those sinners who struggle with sins that deviate too far from the "normal" and "acceptable" ones.  To refuse to do so means one is a god-hating liberal who not only condones, but actively promotes, all manner of sexual immorality and evil.  While people who hold this mentality would disagree with my assessment of their view, and perhaps rightfully so in some cases, as i'm making a generalization, for all intents and purposes, it is in fact how many operate.  Such a mentality pervades certain corners of the Church.  However, many people are too scared to say anything lest they be called unorthodox or "liberal."  And well, a lot of people dislike confrontation so when they hear or see this mentality being expressed in Church, amongst friends and family, on message boards, etc. they remain silent.  Until recently, I've been quite passive as I am a generally quiet and timid person, but no more.  A couple months back a local child killed himself after being taunted for the preceding 8 months.  Almost everyone responsible for his care knew what was happening but no one intervened because to do so would have required confrontation and well, for some of the people charged with his care, it would have been politically inexpedient to intervene and as one person put it, "they couldn't promote such a lifestyle."  If we cannot see Christ in the least of these, which is what happens anytime we objectify any person(s), then we are terribly, terribly lost and the love of God is not in us.

 I completely agree with you.  I haven't figured out yet how to show love without them thinking I tacitly approve of their choices.  How can I love them and share my faith?  I personally know a man who is setting up an appointment for a sex change (he's already gone through the counseling); I am very friendly with him when I see him.  But are we letting them down if we just keep silent about their choices and 'mind our own business?  
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Ionnis on July 28, 2013, 11:26:07 PM
Some believe that as followers of Christ we should objectify, belittle, and persecute sinners, but only those sinners who struggle with sins that deviate too far from the "normal" and "acceptable" ones.  To refuse to do so means one is a god-hating liberal who not only condones, but actively promotes, all manner of sexual immorality and evil.  While people who hold this mentality would disagree with my assessment of their view, and perhaps rightfully so in some cases, as i'm making a generalization, for all intents and purposes, it is in fact how many operate.  Such a mentality pervades certain corners of the Church.  However, many people are too scared to say anything lest they be called unorthodox or "liberal."  And well, a lot of people dislike confrontation so when they hear or see this mentality being expressed in Church, amongst friends and family, on message boards, etc. they remain silent.  Until recently, I've been quite passive as I am a generally quiet and timid person, but no more.  A couple months back a local child killed himself after being taunted for the preceding 8 months.  Almost everyone responsible for his care knew what was happening but no one intervened because to do so would have required confrontation and well, for some of the people charged with his care, it would have been politically inexpedient to intervene and as one person put it, "they couldn't promote such a lifestyle."  If we cannot see Christ in the least of these, which is what happens anytime we objectify any person(s), then we are terribly, terribly lost and the love of God is not in us.

 I completely agree with you.  I haven't figured out yet how to show love without them thinking I tacitly approve of their choices.  How can I love them and share my faith?  I personally know a man who is setting up an appointment for a sex change (he's already gone through the counseling); I am very friendly with him when I see him.  But are we letting them down if we just keep silent about their choices and 'mind our own business?  

I personally don't believe we are obligated to to ensure that every person we come into contact with is aware of their sins and shortcomings.  If we were obligated, I'm afraid our lives would be consumed with conversations revolving around the sins of others.  However, I don't think we should hide what we believe either.  My work colleagues and friends all know I am an Orthodox Christian.  They generally know, even without asking, when I'm likely to disapprove of something.  Sometimes friends are curious as to my beliefs on any number of issues and when asked, I share freely.  However, I always try to remind myself to be prudent.  Some people believe that they are obligated to correct others always and so even if it is imprudent and downright harmful, they still do it with the mistaken belief that if the person persists after such correction, their own hands are clean.  Sometimes acting imprudently brings down all sorts of condemnation upon us.  I personally believe that we should treat every person with dignity and respect, with compassion and love.  If and when the time is right to say something, God usually makes it know.  That's my experience, at least.   Of course I usually act imprudently, but the above written is the goal at least. 
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: pmpn8rGPT on July 28, 2013, 11:38:23 PM
All other things aside (because I don't really believe a debate about the -rightness- or not is needed here)

What was the point in posting this other than to 'stare and point at the freaks'?

I am not saying we should accept such things as normal, but we should also have mercy and compassion.  And in my mind that means not poking fun of people, misguided, lost, or in sin.

Pray for them, yes. Poke fun no.

 + 1.

+2
+3
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: William on July 28, 2013, 11:41:24 PM
But is being compassionate and charitable to a repentant or struggling sinner really the same as being compassionate to an unrepentant degenerate?
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Mor Ephrem on July 28, 2013, 11:42:38 PM
Since the latter posts are discussing something worthwhile, I hesitate to throw this opinion out there.  But my first reaction was not to "stare and point at the freaks".  Actually, I'm rather surprised by the skill of the physicians involved.  I would never have guessed that the "guy' was really a girl and the "girl" a guy.  The latter looks very much like a female acquaintance I knew in college, especially in the first photo.  In the second photo, I can sorta tell that the "guy" was a girl, but only because I knew that as I saw it--still couldn't tell that the "girl" was originally a guy.      
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Shiny on July 29, 2013, 12:38:26 AM
But I don't know this is just insane to me. Who would give 40K for surgery like that?

Evidently someone who has $40,000 to spare and who sympathizes with the cause.  That isn't apparent to you?
I should probably work on making my humor a little more clear. I'm afraid I can lace my OP with too many vulgarities.

Lord have mercy.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Shiny on July 29, 2013, 12:38:26 AM
Aren't you the same people that go off on JamesR because he is a teenager and doesn't know anything?

And you are going to defend teens getting a vaginoplasty?

Ya'll are hypocrites.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Shiny on July 29, 2013, 12:38:26 AM
Some believe that as followers of Christ we should objectify, belittle, and persecute sinners, but only those sinners who struggle with sins that deviate too far from the "normal" and "acceptable" ones.  To refuse to do so means one is a god-hating liberal who not only condones, but actively promotes, all manner of sexual immorality and evil.  While people who hold this mentality would disagree with my assessment of their view, and perhaps rightfully so in some cases, as i'm making a generalization, for all intents and purposes, it is in fact how they operate.  Such a mentality pervades certain corners of the Church.  However, people are too scared to say anything lest they be called unorthodox or "liberal."  And well, people dislike confrontation so when they hear or see this mentality being expressed in Church, amongst friends and family, on message boards, etc. they remain silent.  Until recently, I've been quite passive as I am a generally quiet and timid person, but no more.  A couple months back a local child killed himself after being taunted for the preceding 8 months.  Everyone responsible for his care knew what was happening but no one intervened because to do so would have required confrontation and well, for some of the people charged with his care, it would have been politically inexpedient to intervene and as one person put it, "they couldn't promote such a lifestyle."  If we cannot see Christ in the least of these, which is what happens anytime we objectify any person(s), then we are terribly, terribly lost and the love of God is not in us.
Poignant as always Ionnis, thank you for this. Yes what a terrible tragedy, and I'm not just talking about the suicide.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Shiny on July 29, 2013, 12:38:26 AM
Really the counter argument to Ionnis, and I think Kerdy will agree with me, is that compassion should never be compromised with evil.

Note I am not talking about transgender here.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Arachne on July 29, 2013, 06:21:05 AM
Is it the idea of a vaginoplasty that gives you chills, or the fact that it costs 40 grand?
The former.

It used to happen much more often than you get to hear in the news. In the form of neonatal sex assignment surgery. Without as much as a say from the subject.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Kerdy on July 29, 2013, 06:41:27 AM
Some believe that as followers of Christ we should objectify, belittle, and persecute sinners, but only those sinners who struggle with sins that deviate too far from the "normal" and "acceptable" ones.  To refuse to do so means one is a god-hating liberal who not only condones, but actively promotes, all manner of sexual immorality and evil.  While people who hold this mentality would disagree with my assessment of their view, and perhaps rightfully so in some cases, as i'm making a generalization, for all intents and purposes, it is in fact how they operate.  Such a mentality pervades certain corners of the Church.  However, people are too scared to say anything lest they be called unorthodox or "liberal."  And well, people dislike confrontation so when they hear or see this mentality being expressed in Church, amongst friends and family, on message boards, etc. they remain silent.  Until recently, I've been quite passive as I am a generally quiet and timid person, but no more.  A couple months back a local child killed himself after being taunted for the preceding 8 months.  Everyone responsible for his care knew what was happening but no one intervened because to do so would have required confrontation and well, for some of the people charged with his care, it would have been politically inexpedient to intervene and as one person put it, "they couldn't promote such a lifestyle."  If we cannot see Christ in the least of these, which is what happens anytime we objectify any person(s), then we are terribly, terribly lost and the love of God is not in us.
Poignant as always Ionnis, thank you for this. Yes what a terrible tragedy, and I'm not just talking about the suicide.
It is a tragedy when a person takes their life.  It is doubly tragic when it is fueled by others constant ridicule and hateful actions.  This happens in all sorts of areas of life.  Nerdy, fat, speaking accent, etc.  But what really makes it tragic is either these people think there is no one who will love them or there really isn’t anyone they can find who loves them.  Many times, there are underlying emotional or mental issues which have gone undiagnosed.  All around, suicide is no fun for anyone.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Ionnis on July 29, 2013, 09:30:06 PM
Aren't you the same people that go off on JamesR because he is a teenager and doesn't know anything?

And you are going to defend teens getting a vaginoplasty?

Ya'll are hypocrites.

Who is defending a teenager getting a vaginoplasty?  Are you joking?  I'm usually pretty good about knowing when people are joking, especially you, but lately I've found it difficult. 

Quote
Really the counter argument to Ionnis, and I think Kerdy will agree with me, is that compassion should never be compromised with evil.

Note I am not talking about transgender here.

Who has said compassion should be compromised with evil?

I'm so lost...
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: DeniseDenise on July 29, 2013, 09:43:42 PM
I think perhaps, the confusion here...is rather than just being compassionate and praying for people who might be lost, as humans we all leap to the 'oooh sin, i MUST point it out, I MUST refute it'

Compassion can be greater if we allow God to determine the nature and severity of 'other folks sins' and allow Him to work in their lives. Perhaps even through a compassionate person, who although they know there is sin involved, chooses not to act the judgmental role.

I have way more than enough trouble keeping track of and repenting of my own darn sins, to be worried about others'

but perhaps I am just more sinful then some. ;)
 
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Mor Ephrem on July 29, 2013, 09:45:31 PM
but perhaps I am just more sinful then some. ;)
 

Yeah.  So be quiet and repent.  Leave this stuff to us holy people.  :P
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Kerdy on July 29, 2013, 10:32:31 PM
I think perhaps, the confusion here...is rather than just being compassionate and praying for people who might be lost, as humans we all leap to the 'oooh sin, i MUST point it out, I MUST refute it'

Compassion can be greater if we allow God to determine the nature and severity of 'other folks sins' and allow Him to work in their lives. Perhaps even through a compassionate person, who although they know there is sin involved, chooses not to act the judgmental role.

I have way more than enough trouble keeping track of and repenting of my own darn sins, to be worried about others'

but perhaps I am just more sinful then some. ;)
 
I have noticed some people are so compassionate they do nothing at all.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: DeniseDenise on July 29, 2013, 10:33:28 PM
I think perhaps, the confusion here...is rather than just being compassionate and praying for people who might be lost, as humans we all leap to the 'oooh sin, i MUST point it out, I MUST refute it'

Compassion can be greater if we allow God to determine the nature and severity of 'other folks sins' and allow Him to work in their lives. Perhaps even through a compassionate person, who although they know there is sin involved, chooses not to act the judgmental role.

I have way more than enough trouble keeping track of and repenting of my own darn sins, to be worried about others'

but perhaps I am just more sinful then some. ;)
 
I have noticed some people are so compassionate they do nothing at all.

So praying is doing nothing?

Maybe I need some stones instead....
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Shanghaiski on July 29, 2013, 11:05:04 PM
Some believe that as followers of Christ we should objectify, belittle, and persecute sinners, but only those sinners who struggle with sins that deviate too far from the "normal" and "acceptable" ones.  To refuse to do so means one is a god-hating liberal who not only condones, but actively promotes, all manner of sexual immorality and evil.  While people who hold this mentality would disagree with my assessment of their view, and perhaps rightfully so in some cases, as i'm making a generalization, for all intents and purposes, it is in fact how many operate.  Such a mentality pervades certain corners of the Church.  However, many people are too scared to say anything lest they be called unorthodox or "liberal."  And well, a lot of people dislike confrontation so when they hear or see this mentality being expressed in Church, amongst friends and family, on message boards, etc. they remain silent.  Until recently, I've been quite passive as I am a generally quiet and timid person, but no more.  A couple months back a local child killed himself after being taunted for the preceding 8 months.  Almost everyone responsible for his care knew what was happening but no one intervened because to do so would have required confrontation and well, for some of the people charged with his care, it would have been politically inexpedient to intervene and as one person put it, "they couldn't promote such a lifestyle."  If we cannot see Christ in the least of these, which is what happens anytime we objectify any person(s), then we are terribly, terribly lost and the love of God is not in us.

 I completely agree with you.  I haven't figured out yet how to show love without them thinking I tacitly approve of their choices.  How can I love them and share my faith?  I personally know a man who is setting up an appointment for a sex change (he's already gone through the counseling); I am very friendly with him when I see him.  But are we letting them down if we just keep silent about their choices and 'mind our own business?  

When I was at Project Mexico, they told us, "Give a gift to a friend," that is, don't just be a rich American handing out things left and right to people--make a relationship first so that it will mean something and the person receiving won't be hurt. I think the same can apply to advice. If you don't have an actual relationship with the person--something beyond an acquaintance--then your advice, no matter how well-intentioned, lacks context. (Albeit, the Internet has turned this thing upside down, but I think there's still truth in dealing with people that way.) If someone doesn't ask what you think, the chances are they don't care, and nothing you say will have any bearing and will be more likely just to harden the person's heart.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Shanghaiski on July 29, 2013, 11:07:14 PM
But is being compassionate and charitable to a repentant or struggling sinner really the same as being compassionate to an unrepentant degenerate?

What is compassion?

We are all both struggling and degenerate. At least I am.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Shanghaiski on July 29, 2013, 11:08:53 PM
Aren't you the same people that go off on JamesR because he is a teenager and doesn't know anything?

And you are going to defend teens getting a vaginoplasty?

Ya'll are hypocrites.

For the record, I don'd defend them at all. They are deluded.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: DeniseDenise on July 29, 2013, 11:15:10 PM
Some believe that as followers of Christ we should objectify, belittle, and persecute sinners, but only those sinners who struggle with sins that deviate too far from the "normal" and "acceptable" ones.  To refuse to do so means one is a god-hating liberal who not only condones, but actively promotes, all manner of sexual immorality and evil.  While people who hold this mentality would disagree with my assessment of their view, and perhaps rightfully so in some cases, as i'm making a generalization, for all intents and purposes, it is in fact how many operate.  Such a mentality pervades certain corners of the Church.  However, many people are too scared to say anything lest they be called unorthodox or "liberal."  And well, a lot of people dislike confrontation so when they hear or see this mentality being expressed in Church, amongst friends and family, on message boards, etc. they remain silent.  Until recently, I've been quite passive as I am a generally quiet and timid person, but no more.  A couple months back a local child killed himself after being taunted for the preceding 8 months.  Almost everyone responsible for his care knew what was happening but no one intervened because to do so would have required confrontation and well, for some of the people charged with his care, it would have been politically inexpedient to intervene and as one person put it, "they couldn't promote such a lifestyle."  If we cannot see Christ in the least of these, which is what happens anytime we objectify any person(s), then we are terribly, terribly lost and the love of God is not in us.

 I completely agree with you.  I haven't figured out yet how to show love without them thinking I tacitly approve of their choices.  How can I love them and share my faith?  I personally know a man who is setting up an appointment for a sex change (he's already gone through the counseling); I am very friendly with him when I see him.  But are we letting them down if we just keep silent about their choices and 'mind our own business?  

When I was at Project Mexico, they told us, "Give a gift to a friend," that is, don't just be a rich American handing out things left and right to people--make a relationship first so that it will mean something and the person receiving won't be hurt. I think the same can apply to advice. If you don't have an actual relationship with the person--something beyond an acquaintance--then your advice, no matter how well-intentioned, lacks context. (Albeit, the Internet has turned this thing upside down, but I think there's still truth in dealing with people that way.) If someone doesn't ask what you think, the chances are they don't care, and nothing you say will have any bearing and will be more likely just to harden the person's heart.

+324   

;)
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Opus118 on July 29, 2013, 11:23:37 PM
This weirds me out because the whole uncanny valley thing. Supposedly there was a donation for 40K for the vaginoplasty, which gives me chills thinking about it...

(http://i.imgur.com/V1gXxrU.jpg)

Yeah the one on the left born a woman and the one on the right a man

(http://i.imgur.com/i3c1Gru.jpg?1)

Apparently their parents are supportive, or atleast her mom is.

But I don't know this is just insane to me. Who would give 40K for surgery like that?

I have two questions about this Achronos. There does not appear to be a link for finding out myself. Why does the female turned male have an adam's apple? Why does the male turned female appear not to have an adam's apple? All I am saying is that it does not correspond to my expectations.

Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Kerdy on July 29, 2013, 11:54:26 PM
I think perhaps, the confusion here...is rather than just being compassionate and praying for people who might be lost, as humans we all leap to the 'oooh sin, i MUST point it out, I MUST refute it'

Compassion can be greater if we allow God to determine the nature and severity of 'other folks sins' and allow Him to work in their lives. Perhaps even through a compassionate person, who although they know there is sin involved, chooses not to act the judgmental role.

I have way more than enough trouble keeping track of and repenting of my own darn sins, to be worried about others'

but perhaps I am just more sinful then some. ;)
 
I have noticed some people are so compassionate they do nothing at all.

So praying is doing nothing?

Maybe I need some stones instead....
Stones, I don't know about that but I do know you need to read what I say instead of putting a spin on it.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: JamesRottnek on July 30, 2013, 01:54:21 AM
This weirds me out because the whole uncanny valley thing. Supposedly there was a donation for 40K for the vaginoplasty, which gives me chills thinking about it...

(http://i.imgur.com/V1gXxrU.jpg)

Yeah the one on the left born a woman and the one on the right a man

(http://i.imgur.com/i3c1Gru.jpg?1)

Apparently their parents are supportive, or atleast her mom is.

But I don't know this is just insane to me. Who would give 40K for surgery like that?

I have two questions about this Achronos. There does not appear to be a link for finding out myself. Why does the female turned male have an adam's apple? Why does the male turned female appear not to have an adam's apple? All I am saying is that it does not correspond to my expectations.



I realize I'm not Achronos, but nonetheless.  In the case of the trans woman (the male-to-female transgendered person), she probably had a chondrolaryngoplasty, which is a surgical operation where the surgeon shaves down the thyroid cartilage to reduce the size of the Adam's apple (a procedure occasionally performed on cis gendered people for a variety of reasons), via an incision in the throat.  The trans man (the female-to-male transgendered person) likely had an implant.  
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: NicholasMyra on July 30, 2013, 02:08:07 AM
And just like that I clutch my throat instinctively.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Kerdy on July 30, 2013, 05:13:16 AM
So, I am curious.  If I have my shins and femurs reduced in length, implants to make my head larger, an operation to make my eyes look bigger, my skin permanently dyed to a shade of green, and claim I am a Martian, does the fact I spent all of this money on painful operations make a Martian or no? 

What if instead of dying my skin I have lots and lots of hair added to my body, use my knuckles to walk with my shortened legs, have my teeth altered and my face lengthened to look like a chimp, will I be a chimp?  I could make the sounds and sling poop. 

I realize people will become angry for my wording it this way, but in all seriousness there really is no difference between this and what they (and all the others) have done.  They spend thousands to be changed to look like something they really are not in the misguided hope they will be that something.  It does not make them what they want to be.  It makes them the same kind of person who would want to be a Martian or a chimp.  Anyone who does these things has a condition, mental in nature, and to tell them it’s ok is not good and dishonest.  Yes, I know, I am a bad, bad man.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Arachne on July 30, 2013, 05:35:30 AM
One in 5000 live births is of ambiguous sex that needs assignment, often surgical. That would mean over 60,000 people in the US alone. Then, assignment is not always correct; surgery more commonly made such individuals female, because cutting stuff is easier than enlarging, but even if one in 10 cases turned out wrong (because the hormones had a different idea than the surgeons), you still have a few thousand people who are literally in the wrong bodies. I see no reason at all not to fix the mistake.

'What you are' is not always as easy to determine, even on the level that boring normal us take for granted.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Cyrillic on July 30, 2013, 05:42:25 AM
So, I am curious.  If I have my shins and femurs reduced in length, implants to make my head larger, an operation to make my eyes look bigger, my skin permanently dyed to a shade of green, and claim I am a Martian, does the fact I spent all of this money on painful operations make a Martian or no? 

Nominalists would say that yes, you are now a Martian.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Kerdy on July 30, 2013, 06:00:56 AM
One in 5000 live births is of ambiguous sex that needs assignment, often surgical. That would mean over 60,000 people in the US alone. Then, assignment is not always correct; surgery more commonly made such individuals female, because cutting stuff is easier than enlarging, but even if one in 10 cases turned out wrong (because the hormones had a different idea than the surgeons), you still have a few thousand people who are literally in the wrong bodies. I see no reason at all not to fix the mistake.

'What you are' is not always as easy to determine, even on the level that boring normal us take for granted.

Different topic.  Worthy of discussion, but different topic.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Arachne on July 30, 2013, 06:06:03 AM
One in 5000 live births is of ambiguous sex that needs assignment, often surgical. That would mean over 60,000 people in the US alone. Then, assignment is not always correct; surgery more commonly made such individuals female, because cutting stuff is easier than enlarging, but even if one in 10 cases turned out wrong (because the hormones had a different idea than the surgeons), you still have a few thousand people who are literally in the wrong bodies. I see no reason at all not to fix the mistake.

'What you are' is not always as easy to determine, even on the level that boring normal us take for granted.

Different topic.  Worthy of discussion, but different topic.

Different?

They spend thousands to be changed to look like something they really are not in the misguided hope they will be that something.

No, not different at all.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Kerdy on July 30, 2013, 06:10:43 AM
One in 5000 live births is of ambiguous sex that needs assignment, often surgical. That would mean over 60,000 people in the US alone. Then, assignment is not always correct; surgery more commonly made such individuals female, because cutting stuff is easier than enlarging, but even if one in 10 cases turned out wrong (because the hormones had a different idea than the surgeons), you still have a few thousand people who are literally in the wrong bodies. I see no reason at all not to fix the mistake.

'What you are' is not always as easy to determine, even on the level that boring normal us take for granted.

Different topic.  Worthy of discussion, but different topic.

Different?

They spend thousands to be changed to look like something they really are not in the misguided hope they will be that something.

No, not different at all.

Sure it is.  People do this without anything you posted on.  Different.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Arachne on July 30, 2013, 06:14:58 AM
One in 5000 live births is of ambiguous sex that needs assignment, often surgical. That would mean over 60,000 people in the US alone. Then, assignment is not always correct; surgery more commonly made such individuals female, because cutting stuff is easier than enlarging, but even if one in 10 cases turned out wrong (because the hormones had a different idea than the surgeons), you still have a few thousand people who are literally in the wrong bodies. I see no reason at all not to fix the mistake.

'What you are' is not always as easy to determine, even on the level that boring normal us take for granted.

Different topic.  Worthy of discussion, but different topic.

Different?

They spend thousands to be changed to look like something they really are not in the misguided hope they will be that something.

No, not different at all.

Sure it is.  People do this without anything you posted on.  Different.

That doesn't change the fact that there's plenty of legitimate reason to do it. And we'll never find out how 'legitimate' those kids' reasons are. Not that it's any of our business.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: JamesRottnek on July 30, 2013, 06:24:04 AM
So, I am curious.  If I have my shins and femurs reduced in length, implants to make my head larger, an operation to make my eyes look bigger, my skin permanently dyed to a shade of green, and claim I am a Martian, does the fact I spent all of this money on painful operations make a Martian or no? 

What if instead of dying my skin I have lots and lots of hair added to my body, use my knuckles to walk with my shortened legs, have my teeth altered and my face lengthened to look like a chimp, will I be a chimp?  I could make the sounds and sling poop. 

I realize people will become angry for my wording it this way, but in all seriousness there really is no difference between this and what they (and all the others) have done.  They spend thousands to be changed to look like something they really are not in the misguided hope they will be that something.  It does not make them what they want to be.  It makes them the same kind of person who would want to be a Martian or a chimp.  Anyone who does these things has a condition, mental in nature, and to tell them it’s ok is not good and dishonest.  Yes, I know, I am a bad, bad man.


Is gender purely physical?  How reductionist.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Kerdy on July 30, 2013, 07:03:03 AM
One in 5000 live births is of ambiguous sex that needs assignment, often surgical. That would mean over 60,000 people in the US alone. Then, assignment is not always correct; surgery more commonly made such individuals female, because cutting stuff is easier than enlarging, but even if one in 10 cases turned out wrong (because the hormones had a different idea than the surgeons), you still have a few thousand people who are literally in the wrong bodies. I see no reason at all not to fix the mistake.

'What you are' is not always as easy to determine, even on the level that boring normal us take for granted.

Different topic.  Worthy of discussion, but different topic.

Different?

They spend thousands to be changed to look like something they really are not in the misguided hope they will be that something.

No, not different at all.

Sure it is.  People do this without anything you posted on.  Different.

That doesn't change the fact that there's plenty of legitimate reason to do it. And we'll never find out how 'legitimate' those kids' reasons are. Not that it's any of our business.
Different discussion and "fact" is debatable.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Kerdy on July 30, 2013, 07:03:22 AM
So, I am curious.  If I have my shins and femurs reduced in length, implants to make my head larger, an operation to make my eyes look bigger, my skin permanently dyed to a shade of green, and claim I am a Martian, does the fact I spent all of this money on painful operations make a Martian or no?  

What if instead of dying my skin I have lots and lots of hair added to my body, use my knuckles to walk with my shortened legs, have my teeth altered and my face lengthened to look like a chimp, will I be a chimp?  I could make the sounds and sling poop.  

I realize people will become angry for my wording it this way, but in all seriousness there really is no difference between this and what they (and all the others) have done.  They spend thousands to be changed to look like something they really are not in the misguided hope they will be that something.  It does not make them what they want to be.  It makes them the same kind of person who would want to be a Martian or a chimp.  Anyone who does these things has a condition, mental in nature, and to tell them it’s ok is not good and dishonest.  Yes, I know, I am a bad, bad man.


Is gender purely physical?  How reductionist.

Yes, it is.  How scientific (forensics - look it up - you can alter your body, you can't alter your DNA).
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Arachne on July 30, 2013, 07:18:10 AM
One in 5000 live births is of ambiguous sex that needs assignment, often surgical. That would mean over 60,000 people in the US alone. Then, assignment is not always correct; surgery more commonly made such individuals female, because cutting stuff is easier than enlarging, but even if one in 10 cases turned out wrong (because the hormones had a different idea than the surgeons), you still have a few thousand people who are literally in the wrong bodies. I see no reason at all not to fix the mistake.

'What you are' is not always as easy to determine, even on the level that boring normal us take for granted.

Different topic.  Worthy of discussion, but different topic.

Different?

They spend thousands to be changed to look like something they really are not in the misguided hope they will be that something.

No, not different at all.

Sure it is.  People do this without anything you posted on.  Different.

That doesn't change the fact that there's plenty of legitimate reason to do it. And we'll never find out how 'legitimate' those kids' reasons are. Not that it's any of our business.
Different discussion and "fact" is debatable.

All within the scope of this discussion. You just want to talk about what horrible sexual deviants those trannies are, and I don't.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Cyrillic on July 30, 2013, 07:21:05 AM
Is gender purely physical?

Yes, it is.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Kerdy on July 30, 2013, 08:15:29 AM
One in 5000 live births is of ambiguous sex that needs assignment, often surgical. That would mean over 60,000 people in the US alone. Then, assignment is not always correct; surgery more commonly made such individuals female, because cutting stuff is easier than enlarging, but even if one in 10 cases turned out wrong (because the hormones had a different idea than the surgeons), you still have a few thousand people who are literally in the wrong bodies. I see no reason at all not to fix the mistake.

'What you are' is not always as easy to determine, even on the level that boring normal us take for granted.

Different topic.  Worthy of discussion, but different topic.

Different?

They spend thousands to be changed to look like something they really are not in the misguided hope they will be that something.

No, not different at all.

Sure it is.  People do this without anything you posted on.  Different.

That doesn't change the fact that there's plenty of legitimate reason to do it. And we'll never find out how 'legitimate' those kids' reasons are. Not that it's any of our business.
Different discussion and "fact" is debatable.

All within the scope of this discussion. You just want to talk about what horrible sexual deviants those trannies are, and I don't.
If people are talking about the safety glass in vehicles and you talk about the safety of tires, both are on the vehicle, both deal with safety, but they have nothing to do with one another.  I'm talking glass, you're trying to force tires into the discussion. 
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Arachne on July 30, 2013, 08:18:31 AM
Only here the wonder is 'why on earth would those kids want to go through surgery' and I provided a reason. Are we sure they fall under that category? No. Are we sure they don't? No. The discussion hasn't drifted yet. You may keep trying.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Kerdy on July 30, 2013, 08:20:04 AM
Only here the wonder is 'why on earth would those kids want to go through surgery' and I provided a reason. Are we sure they fall under that category? No. Are we sure they don't? No. The discussion hasn't drifted yet. You may keep trying.
That isn't the question I was wondering about, and to which you replied, but okay.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: TheTrisagion on July 30, 2013, 08:43:36 AM
So, I am curious.  If I have my shins and femurs reduced in length, implants to make my head larger, an operation to make my eyes look bigger, my skin permanently dyed to a shade of green, and claim I am a Martian, does the fact I spent all of this money on painful operations make a Martian or no? 

What if instead of dying my skin I have lots and lots of hair added to my body, use my knuckles to walk with my shortened legs, have my teeth altered and my face lengthened to look like a chimp, will I be a chimp?  I could make the sounds and sling poop. 

I realize people will become angry for my wording it this way, but in all seriousness there really is no difference between this and what they (and all the others) have done.  They spend thousands to be changed to look like something they really are not in the misguided hope they will be that something.  It does not make them what they want to be.  It makes them the same kind of person who would want to be a Martian or a chimp.  Anyone who does these things has a condition, mental in nature, and to tell them it’s ok is not good and dishonest.  Yes, I know, I am a bad, bad man.


Is gender purely physical?  How reductionist.
Ahh, those pesky X & Y chromosomes.  So reductionist.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Arachne on July 30, 2013, 08:48:32 AM
Sex (which is not the same as gender) is physical. What it is not is always clear-cut.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: TheTrisagion on July 30, 2013, 08:58:21 AM
Quote
Sexologist John Money coined the term gender role in 1955.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender

How does one become a sexologist exactly? This sounds to be an interesting job.  ;)
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Arachne on July 30, 2013, 09:02:31 AM
How does one become a sexologist exactly? This sounds to be an interesting job.  ;)

By getting a degree in biology, then pursuing postgraduate studies in genetics, specialising in the defining characteristics of sex and their correlative functions.

If you mean the Dr Ruth kind of -ologist, not sure I can help you there. :P
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: TheTrisagion on July 30, 2013, 09:20:21 AM
How does one become a sexologist exactly? This sounds to be an interesting job.  ;)

By getting a degree in biology, then pursuing postgraduate studies in genetics, specialising in the defining characteristics of sex and their correlative functions.

If you mean the Dr Ruth kind of -ologist, not sure I can help you there. :P
I note that they have made many great contributions to the world such as:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penile_plethysmograph
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Arachne on July 30, 2013, 09:21:50 AM
How does one become a sexologist exactly? This sounds to be an interesting job.  ;)

By getting a degree in biology, then pursuing postgraduate studies in genetics, specialising in the defining characteristics of sex and their correlative functions.

If you mean the Dr Ruth kind of -ologist, not sure I can help you there. :P
I note that they have made many great contributions to the world such as:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penile_plethysmograph

Too many kids who thought it sounded like an interesting job. Anything to keep them busy enough not to play with themselves.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Kerdy on July 30, 2013, 09:43:05 AM
Sex (which is not the same as gender) is physical. What it is not is always clear-cut.
Not anymore anyway.

" the state of being male or female"

It's origins go back to the 14th century identifying masculine and feminine.

DNA can determine whether a person was male or female who has long since died. 
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Arachne on July 30, 2013, 09:49:46 AM
Sex (which is not the same as gender) is physical. What it is not is always clear-cut.
Not anymore anyway.

It never was. We just didn't know quite how things worked until relatively recently.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Kerdy on July 30, 2013, 09:51:01 AM
Sex (which is not the same as gender) is physical. What it is not is always clear-cut.
Not anymore anyway.

It never was. We just didn't know quite how things worked until relatively recently.
Sure it was.  It's just we didn't conjure up this garbage until recently.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Santagranddad on July 30, 2013, 09:55:33 AM
Down on the farm after you had taken the ram to tup the ewes and put the bull to a cow a fee times there wasn't much that was not clear....
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: J Michael on July 30, 2013, 09:57:27 AM
Does God make mistakes?
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Arachne on July 30, 2013, 09:59:15 AM
Sex (which is not the same as gender) is physical. What it is not is always clear-cut.
Not anymore anyway.

It never was. We just didn't know quite how things worked until relatively recently.
Sure it was.  It's just we didn't conjure up this garbage until recently.

Genotypes, phenotypes, and the fact that one may not accurately reflect the other, all were Mendel's work. ::)
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Arachne on July 30, 2013, 09:59:42 AM
Does God make mistakes?

Are people born with congenital conditions?
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Cyrillic on July 30, 2013, 10:00:09 AM
Sex (which is not the same as gender) is physical. What it is not is always clear-cut.
Not anymore anyway.

It never was. We just didn't know quite how things worked until relatively recently.
Sure it was.  It's just we didn't conjure up this garbage until recently.

Stop the presses! I agree with Kerdy for once.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Mor Ephrem on July 30, 2013, 10:08:17 AM
Stop the presses! I agree with Kerdy for once.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EZn0FUHdZs
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Opus118 on July 30, 2013, 10:21:26 AM


I have two questions about this Achronos. There does not appear to be a link for finding out myself. Why does the female turned male have an adam's apple? Why does the male turned female appear not to have an adam's apple? All I am saying is that it does not correspond to my expectations.



I realize I'm not Achronos, but nonetheless.  In the case of the trans woman (the male-to-female transgendered person), she probably had a chondrolaryngoplasty, which is a surgical operation where the surgeon shaves down the thyroid cartilage to reduce the size of the Adam's apple (a procedure occasionally performed on cis gendered people for a variety of reasons), via an incision in the throat.  The trans man (the female-to-male transgendered person) likely had an implant.  

Thanks James.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: JamesRottnek on July 30, 2013, 10:41:26 AM


I have two questions about this Achronos. There does not appear to be a link for finding out myself. Why does the female turned male have an adam's apple? Why does the male turned female appear not to have an adam's apple? All I am saying is that it does not correspond to my expectations.



I realize I'm not Achronos, but nonetheless.  In the case of the trans woman (the male-to-female transgendered person), she probably had a chondrolaryngoplasty, which is a surgical operation where the surgeon shaves down the thyroid cartilage to reduce the size of the Adam's apple (a procedure occasionally performed on cis gendered people for a variety of reasons), via an incision in the throat.  The trans man (the female-to-male transgendered person) likely had an implant.  

Thanks James.

No problem, I'm always glad to be of use.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Shiny on July 30, 2013, 10:41:59 AM
So, I am curious.  If I have my shins and femurs reduced in length, implants to make my head larger, an operation to make my eyes look bigger, my skin permanently dyed to a shade of green, and claim I am a Martian, does the fact I spent all of this money on painful operations make a Martian or no?  

What if instead of dying my skin I have lots and lots of hair added to my body, use my knuckles to walk with my shortened legs, have my teeth altered and my face lengthened to look like a chimp, will I be a chimp?  I could make the sounds and sling poop.  

I realize people will become angry for my wording it this way, but in all seriousness there really is no difference between this and what they (and all the others) have done.  They spend thousands to be changed to look like something they really are not in the misguided hope they will be that something.  It does not make them what they want to be.  It makes them the same kind of person who would want to be a Martian or a chimp.  Anyone who does these things has a condition, mental in nature, and to tell them it’s ok is not good and dishonest.  Yes, I know, I am a bad, bad man.


Is gender purely physical?  How reductionist.

Yes, it is.  How scientific (forensics - look it up).
Didn't think you were a materialist.

"Science" doesn't explain much
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: J Michael on July 30, 2013, 10:45:59 AM
Does God make mistakes?

Are people born with congenital conditions?

Sure they are.  But, are they mistakes on God's part?
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Arachne on July 30, 2013, 10:48:16 AM
Does God make mistakes?

Are people born with congenital conditions?

Sure they are.  But, are they mistakes on God's part?

You tell me. I'm not trying to assign responsibility for the condition. I'm just acknowledging it, as well as the options for correcting it.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: TheTrisagion on July 30, 2013, 10:54:33 AM
I can't help but think that people didn't have these issues before they had so much free time on their hands to sit around and dwell on what "gender" they identify with the most.  You don't see hordes of people in sub-Saharan Africa concerned about their gender identity.  They are too busy worrying about important things like, you know, eating and finding somewhere to live.  ::)
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Arachne on July 30, 2013, 11:02:01 AM
I can't help but think that people didn't have these issues before they had so much free time on their hands to sit around and dwell on what "gender" they identify with the most.  You don't see hordes of people in sub-Saharan Africa concerned about their gender identity.  They are too busy worrying about important things like, you know, eating and finding somewhere to live.  ::)

Tribal societies often had specific roles for transgendered people.

http://www.bilerico.com/2008/02/transgender_history_trans_expression_in.php
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: J Michael on July 30, 2013, 11:02:27 AM
Does God make mistakes?

Are people born with congenital conditions?

Sure they are.  But, are they mistakes on God's part?

You tell me. I'm not trying to assign responsibility for the condition. I'm just acknowledging it, as well as the options for correcting it.

Are you equating congenital diseases (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_congenital_disorders) with a teen or adult thinking that they are the wrong gender?

I'm of the opinion that God does not make "mistakes".  He gives us crosses and sometimes we give ourselves even more of them.  What we do with them is ultimately up to us.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Arachne on July 30, 2013, 11:09:23 AM
Does God make mistakes?

Are people born with congenital conditions?

Sure they are.  But, are they mistakes on God's part?

You tell me. I'm not trying to assign responsibility for the condition. I'm just acknowledging it, as well as the options for correcting it.

Are you equating congenital diseases (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_congenital_disorders) with a teen or adult thinking that they are the wrong gender?

I'm of the opinion that God does not make "mistakes".  He gives us crosses and sometimes we give ourselves even more of them.  What we do with them is ultimately up to us.

I'm saying that 'ambiguous sex' is not the same as a teen or adult thinking that they are the wrong gender. I'm saying that for about 60,000 Americans, the doctor and parents didn't just observe and confirm what their sex is - they decided it. And they may have decided it wrong. Go look up 'intersex'.

I know personally three such people. Two of them are XXY. They are neither male nor female. They are nobody's mistakes either. They are people, and they have the right to choose which gender to identify with, since there are no allowances for 'neither'.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: TheTrisagion on July 30, 2013, 11:15:26 AM
I can't help but think that people didn't have these issues before they had so much free time on their hands to sit around and dwell on what "gender" they identify with the most.  You don't see hordes of people in sub-Saharan Africa concerned about their gender identity.  They are too busy worrying about important things like, you know, eating and finding somewhere to live.  ::)

Tribal societies often had specific roles for transgendered people.

http://www.bilerico.com/2008/02/transgender_history_trans_expression_in.php
I read a lot of speculation and junk history there, but not so much real evidence. She even attempts to equate the "Bride of Christ" to "gender-wedding imagery".  ::)
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Arachne on July 30, 2013, 11:17:09 AM
I can't help but think that people didn't have these issues before they had so much free time on their hands to sit around and dwell on what "gender" they identify with the most.  You don't see hordes of people in sub-Saharan Africa concerned about their gender identity.  They are too busy worrying about important things like, you know, eating and finding somewhere to live.  ::)

Tribal societies often had specific roles for transgendered people.

http://www.bilerico.com/2008/02/transgender_history_trans_expression_in.php
I read a lot of speculation and junk history there, but not so much real evidence. She even attempts to equate the "Bride of Christ" to "gender-wedding imagery".  ::)

The Indian Hijra are well documented. Quinault may have a few things to tell us about Two-Spirits as well.

EDIT: This better?

http://www.princeton.edu/~achaney/tmve/wiki100k/docs/Gender_role.html
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: J Michael on July 30, 2013, 11:37:29 AM
Does God make mistakes?

Are people born with congenital conditions?

Sure they are.  But, are they mistakes on God's part?

You tell me. I'm not trying to assign responsibility for the condition. I'm just acknowledging it, as well as the options for correcting it.

Are you equating congenital diseases (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_congenital_disorders) with a teen or adult thinking that they are the wrong gender?

I'm of the opinion that God does not make "mistakes".  He gives us crosses and sometimes we give ourselves even more of them.  What we do with them is ultimately up to us.

I'm saying that 'ambiguous sex' is not the same as a teen or adult thinking that they are the wrong gender. I'm saying that for about 60,000 Americans, the doctor and parents didn't just observe and confirm what their sex is - they decided it. And they may have decided it wrong. Go look up 'intersex'.

I know personally three such people. Two of them are XXY. They are neither male nor female. They are nobody's mistakes either. They are people, and they have the right to choose which gender to identify with, since there are no allowances for 'neither'.

I have looked up "intersex".  I am well aware of ambiguous sex and gender "assignment" at or shortly following birth.  That's a whole other kettle of fish, as you rightly differentiate, from a teen or adult seeking to alter their gender status because it's the "wrong" one.  60,000 is not a small number, but when compared with the roughly 4 million births annually that represents, what...about 1.5%--not huge statistically.  In fact, someone please correct me if I'm wrong, medically speaking it is statistically insignificant--that is, unless you or a family member happen to be in that small percentage. 

Because we live in a fallen world, anomalous  and congenital conditions will occur.  And so will it also occur that some folks "think" or "feel" that God got it wrong with them and they know better than Him.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: vamrat on July 30, 2013, 12:04:59 PM
I don't think we should look for people who are just trying to go about their lives and make fun of them and degrade them.  That is just wrong.  But what about clowns?  They get paid good money for us to make fun of.  It is part of the human condition to make fun of others doing stupid things.  This is a good educational tool.  Not, these kids, posing for pictures, allowing themselves to be made into media-circus-bait, how are they any different than a clown? 

I don't make fun of people in real life.  You willing get put on TV or in a magazine, you're open game.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Arachne on July 30, 2013, 12:49:36 PM
Does God make mistakes?

Are people born with congenital conditions?

Sure they are.  But, are they mistakes on God's part?

You tell me. I'm not trying to assign responsibility for the condition. I'm just acknowledging it, as well as the options for correcting it.

Are you equating congenital diseases (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_congenital_disorders) with a teen or adult thinking that they are the wrong gender?

I'm of the opinion that God does not make "mistakes".  He gives us crosses and sometimes we give ourselves even more of them.  What we do with them is ultimately up to us.

I'm saying that 'ambiguous sex' is not the same as a teen or adult thinking that they are the wrong gender. I'm saying that for about 60,000 Americans, the doctor and parents didn't just observe and confirm what their sex is - they decided it. And they may have decided it wrong. Go look up 'intersex'.

I know personally three such people. Two of them are XXY. They are neither male nor female. They are nobody's mistakes either. They are people, and they have the right to choose which gender to identify with, since there are no allowances for 'neither'.

I have looked up "intersex".  I am well aware of ambiguous sex and gender "assignment" at or shortly following birth.  That's a whole other kettle of fish, as you rightly differentiate, from a teen or adult seeking to alter their gender status because it's the "wrong" one.  60,000 is not a small number, but when compared with the roughly 4 million births annually that represents, what...about 1.5%--not huge statistically.  In fact, someone please correct me if I'm wrong, medically speaking it is statistically insignificant--that is, unless you or a family member happen to be in that small percentage. 

Because we live in a fallen world, anomalous  and congenital conditions will occur.  And so will it also occur that some folks "think" or "feel" that God got it wrong with them and they know better than Him.

I see nothing different in this kind of treatment to repairing harelips or holes in hearts. Being the wrong sex for one's body is just as potentially life-limiting, just in a different way. I also don't see any reason to withhold a treatment that exists, just because the condition is not a common enough one. (Try telling that to my brother-in-law, whose son has a form of cancer that is only the third identified case in the world.)
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: TheTrisagion on July 30, 2013, 12:54:10 PM
I don't think we should look for people who are just trying to go about their lives and make fun of them and degrade them.  That is just wrong.  But what about clowns?  They get paid good money for us to make fun of.  It is part of the human condition to make fun of others doing stupid things.  This is a good educational tool.  Not, these kids, posing for pictures, allowing themselves to be made into media-circus-bait, how are they any different than a clown? 

I don't make fun of people in real life.  You willing get put on TV or in a magazine, you're open game.
I don't know if it is the right attitude or not, but I'm with vamrat on this one.  I have known several people who have gotten sex changes and while I don't agree with it, I have tried to never demean or look down on them because it is a struggle I've never had to deal with. Once you take your "struggle" public, it just seems disingenuous at that point and I don't feel too bad about cracking a few jokes.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: J Michael on July 30, 2013, 01:40:28 PM
Does God make mistakes?

Are people born with congenital conditions?

Sure they are.  But, are they mistakes on God's part?

You tell me. I'm not trying to assign responsibility for the condition. I'm just acknowledging it, as well as the options for correcting it.

Are you equating congenital diseases (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_congenital_disorders) with a teen or adult thinking that they are the wrong gender?

I'm of the opinion that God does not make "mistakes".  He gives us crosses and sometimes we give ourselves even more of them.  What we do with them is ultimately up to us.

I'm saying that 'ambiguous sex' is not the same as a teen or adult thinking that they are the wrong gender. I'm saying that for about 60,000 Americans, the doctor and parents didn't just observe and confirm what their sex is - they decided it. And they may have decided it wrong. Go look up 'intersex'.

I know personally three such people. Two of them are XXY. They are neither male nor female. They are nobody's mistakes either. They are people, and they have the right to choose which gender to identify with, since there are no allowances for 'neither'.

I have looked up "intersex".  I am well aware of ambiguous sex and gender "assignment" at or shortly following birth.  That's a whole other kettle of fish, as you rightly differentiate, from a teen or adult seeking to alter their gender status because it's the "wrong" one.  60,000 is not a small number, but when compared with the roughly 4 million births annually that represents, what...about 1.5%--not huge statistically.  In fact, someone please correct me if I'm wrong, medically speaking it is statistically insignificant--that is, unless you or a family member happen to be in that small percentage. 

Because we live in a fallen world, anomalous  and congenital conditions will occur.  And so will it also occur that some folks "think" or "feel" that God got it wrong with them and they know better than Him.

I see nothing different in this kind of treatment to repairing harelips or holes in hearts. Being the wrong sex for one's body is just as potentially life-limiting, just in a different way. I also don't see any reason to withhold a treatment that exists, just because the condition is not a common enough one. (Try telling that to my brother-in-law, whose son has a form of cancer that is only the third identified case in the world.)

 ???

So, I'm getting a little confused by what you're writing.  Are you equating a situation of a child being born with "ambiguous sex" and being treated for it with a physically mature person deciding that they are the wrong sex and undergoing transgender surgery and hormone therapy for it?  Earlier you said that you weren't, but it kind of seems like you are now.  Am I misreading you?



Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Arachne on July 30, 2013, 02:10:27 PM
Does God make mistakes?

Are people born with congenital conditions?

Sure they are.  But, are they mistakes on God's part?

You tell me. I'm not trying to assign responsibility for the condition. I'm just acknowledging it, as well as the options for correcting it.

Are you equating congenital diseases (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_congenital_disorders) with a teen or adult thinking that they are the wrong gender?

I'm of the opinion that God does not make "mistakes".  He gives us crosses and sometimes we give ourselves even more of them.  What we do with them is ultimately up to us.

I'm saying that 'ambiguous sex' is not the same as a teen or adult thinking that they are the wrong gender. I'm saying that for about 60,000 Americans, the doctor and parents didn't just observe and confirm what their sex is - they decided it. And they may have decided it wrong. Go look up 'intersex'.

I know personally three such people. Two of them are XXY. They are neither male nor female. They are nobody's mistakes either. They are people, and they have the right to choose which gender to identify with, since there are no allowances for 'neither'.

I have looked up "intersex".  I am well aware of ambiguous sex and gender "assignment" at or shortly following birth.  That's a whole other kettle of fish, as you rightly differentiate, from a teen or adult seeking to alter their gender status because it's the "wrong" one.  60,000 is not a small number, but when compared with the roughly 4 million births annually that represents, what...about 1.5%--not huge statistically.  In fact, someone please correct me if I'm wrong, medically speaking it is statistically insignificant--that is, unless you or a family member happen to be in that small percentage. 

Because we live in a fallen world, anomalous  and congenital conditions will occur.  And so will it also occur that some folks "think" or "feel" that God got it wrong with them and they know better than Him.

I see nothing different in this kind of treatment to repairing harelips or holes in hearts. Being the wrong sex for one's body is just as potentially life-limiting, just in a different way. I also don't see any reason to withhold a treatment that exists, just because the condition is not a common enough one. (Try telling that to my brother-in-law, whose son has a form of cancer that is only the third identified case in the world.)

 ???

So, I'm getting a little confused by what you're writing.  Are you equating a situation of a child being born with "ambiguous sex" and being treated for it with a physically mature person deciding that they are the wrong sex and undergoing transgender surgery and hormone therapy for it?  Earlier you said that you weren't, but it kind of seems like you are now.  Am I misreading you?

No, they are not the same. Gender assignment, surgical or not, is largely arbitrary, and the child, growing up, can find themselves feeling that the gender assigned was a mistake. I see no reason not to have that mistake corrected. (All three intersex people I mentioned above ended up gravitating to the opposite sex from the one they were raised as, in looks as well as mentality.)

An adult without intersex issues that up and decides to go bat for the other team is an extreme LARPer, really.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: TheTrisagion on July 30, 2013, 02:12:06 PM
Does God make mistakes?

Are people born with congenital conditions?

Sure they are.  But, are they mistakes on God's part?

You tell me. I'm not trying to assign responsibility for the condition. I'm just acknowledging it, as well as the options for correcting it.

Are you equating congenital diseases (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_congenital_disorders) with a teen or adult thinking that they are the wrong gender?

I'm of the opinion that God does not make "mistakes".  He gives us crosses and sometimes we give ourselves even more of them.  What we do with them is ultimately up to us.

I'm saying that 'ambiguous sex' is not the same as a teen or adult thinking that they are the wrong gender. I'm saying that for about 60,000 Americans, the doctor and parents didn't just observe and confirm what their sex is - they decided it. And they may have decided it wrong. Go look up 'intersex'.

I know personally three such people. Two of them are XXY. They are neither male nor female. They are nobody's mistakes either. They are people, and they have the right to choose which gender to identify with, since there are no allowances for 'neither'.

I have looked up "intersex".  I am well aware of ambiguous sex and gender "assignment" at or shortly following birth.  That's a whole other kettle of fish, as you rightly differentiate, from a teen or adult seeking to alter their gender status because it's the "wrong" one.  60,000 is not a small number, but when compared with the roughly 4 million births annually that represents, what...about 1.5%--not huge statistically.  In fact, someone please correct me if I'm wrong, medically speaking it is statistically insignificant--that is, unless you or a family member happen to be in that small percentage. 

Because we live in a fallen world, anomalous  and congenital conditions will occur.  And so will it also occur that some folks "think" or "feel" that God got it wrong with them and they know better than Him.

I see nothing different in this kind of treatment to repairing harelips or holes in hearts. Being the wrong sex for one's body is just as potentially life-limiting, just in a different way. I also don't see any reason to withhold a treatment that exists, just because the condition is not a common enough one. (Try telling that to my brother-in-law, whose son has a form of cancer that is only the third identified case in the world.)

 ???

So, I'm getting a little confused by what you're writing.  Are you equating a situation of a child being born with "ambiguous sex" and being treated for it with a physically mature person deciding that they are the wrong sex and undergoing transgender surgery and hormone therapy for it?  Earlier you said that you weren't, but it kind of seems like you are now.  Am I misreading you?

No, they are not the same. Gender assignment, surgical or not, is largely arbitrary, and the child, growing up, can find themselves feeling that the gender assigned was a mistake. I see no reason not to have that mistake corrected. (All three intersex people I mentioned above ended up gravitating to the opposite sex from the one they were raised as, in looks as well as mentality.)

An adult without intersex issues that up and decides to go bat for the other team is an extreme LARPer, really.
Ok, in this context, I understand all your comments much better.  I 100% agree with you.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: J Michael on July 30, 2013, 02:18:58 PM
Does God make mistakes?

Are people born with congenital conditions?

Sure they are.  But, are they mistakes on God's part?

You tell me. I'm not trying to assign responsibility for the condition. I'm just acknowledging it, as well as the options for correcting it.

Are you equating congenital diseases (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_congenital_disorders) with a teen or adult thinking that they are the wrong gender?

I'm of the opinion that God does not make "mistakes".  He gives us crosses and sometimes we give ourselves even more of them.  What we do with them is ultimately up to us.

I'm saying that 'ambiguous sex' is not the same as a teen or adult thinking that they are the wrong gender. I'm saying that for about 60,000 Americans, the doctor and parents didn't just observe and confirm what their sex is - they decided it. And they may have decided it wrong. Go look up 'intersex'.

I know personally three such people. Two of them are XXY. They are neither male nor female. They are nobody's mistakes either. They are people, and they have the right to choose which gender to identify with, since there are no allowances for 'neither'.

I have looked up "intersex".  I am well aware of ambiguous sex and gender "assignment" at or shortly following birth.  That's a whole other kettle of fish, as you rightly differentiate, from a teen or adult seeking to alter their gender status because it's the "wrong" one.  60,000 is not a small number, but when compared with the roughly 4 million births annually that represents, what...about 1.5%--not huge statistically.  In fact, someone please correct me if I'm wrong, medically speaking it is statistically insignificant--that is, unless you or a family member happen to be in that small percentage. 

Because we live in a fallen world, anomalous  and congenital conditions will occur.  And so will it also occur that some folks "think" or "feel" that God got it wrong with them and they know better than Him.

I see nothing different in this kind of treatment to repairing harelips or holes in hearts. Being the wrong sex for one's body is just as potentially life-limiting, just in a different way. I also don't see any reason to withhold a treatment that exists, just because the condition is not a common enough one. (Try telling that to my brother-in-law, whose son has a form of cancer that is only the third identified case in the world.)

 ???

So, I'm getting a little confused by what you're writing.  Are you equating a situation of a child being born with "ambiguous sex" and being treated for it with a physically mature person deciding that they are the wrong sex and undergoing transgender surgery and hormone therapy for it?  Earlier you said that you weren't, but it kind of seems like you are now.  Am I misreading you?

No, they are not the same. Gender assignment, surgical or not, is largely arbitrary, and the child, growing up, can find themselves feeling that the gender assigned was a mistake. I see no reason not to have that mistake corrected. (All three intersex people I mentioned above ended up gravitating to the opposite sex from the one they were raised as, in looks as well as mentality.)

An adult without intersex issues that up and decides to go bat for the other team is an extreme LARPer, really.
Ok, in this context, I understand all your comments much better.  I 100% agree with you.

+1

Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: J Michael on July 30, 2013, 02:19:55 PM
Does God make mistakes?

Are people born with congenital conditions?

Sure they are.  But, are they mistakes on God's part?

You tell me. I'm not trying to assign responsibility for the condition. I'm just acknowledging it, as well as the options for correcting it.

Are you equating congenital diseases (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_congenital_disorders) with a teen or adult thinking that they are the wrong gender?

I'm of the opinion that God does not make "mistakes".  He gives us crosses and sometimes we give ourselves even more of them.  What we do with them is ultimately up to us.

I'm saying that 'ambiguous sex' is not the same as a teen or adult thinking that they are the wrong gender. I'm saying that for about 60,000 Americans, the doctor and parents didn't just observe and confirm what their sex is - they decided it. And they may have decided it wrong. Go look up 'intersex'.

I know personally three such people. Two of them are XXY. They are neither male nor female. They are nobody's mistakes either. They are people, and they have the right to choose which gender to identify with, since there are no allowances for 'neither'.

I have looked up "intersex".  I am well aware of ambiguous sex and gender "assignment" at or shortly following birth.  That's a whole other kettle of fish, as you rightly differentiate, from a teen or adult seeking to alter their gender status because it's the "wrong" one.  60,000 is not a small number, but when compared with the roughly 4 million births annually that represents, what...about 1.5%--not huge statistically.  In fact, someone please correct me if I'm wrong, medically speaking it is statistically insignificant--that is, unless you or a family member happen to be in that small percentage. 

Because we live in a fallen world, anomalous  and congenital conditions will occur.  And so will it also occur that some folks "think" or "feel" that God got it wrong with them and they know better than Him.

I see nothing different in this kind of treatment to repairing harelips or holes in hearts. Being the wrong sex for one's body is just as potentially life-limiting, just in a different way. I also don't see any reason to withhold a treatment that exists, just because the condition is not a common enough one. (Try telling that to my brother-in-law, whose son has a form of cancer that is only the third identified case in the world.)

 ???

So, I'm getting a little confused by what you're writing.  Are you equating a situation of a child being born with "ambiguous sex" and being treated for it with a physically mature person deciding that they are the wrong sex and undergoing transgender surgery and hormone therapy for it?  Earlier you said that you weren't, but it kind of seems like you are now.  Am I misreading you?

No, they are not the same. Gender assignment, surgical or not, is largely arbitrary, and the child, growing up, can find themselves feeling that the gender assigned was a mistake. I see no reason not to have that mistake corrected. (All three intersex people I mentioned above ended up gravitating to the opposite sex from the one they were raised as, in looks as well as mentality.)

An adult without intersex issues that up and decides to go bat for the other team is an extreme LARPer, really.

Thanks for clarifying!  We agree 100%.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Aedificare on July 30, 2013, 03:43:23 PM
I wish them all well in life.

I don't think you can repress transsexualism without going insane, while a homosexual can be celibate just as easily as a heterosexual.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: JamesRottnek on July 30, 2013, 06:14:58 PM
I wish them all well in life.

I don't think you can repress transsexualism without going insane, while a homosexual can be celibate just as easily as a heterosexual.

Which given how St. Paul implores everyone to be celibate, must mean that gays can be celibate if they happen to have that gift.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Shiny on July 30, 2013, 06:28:41 PM
Can it be argued that transgender surgery is a form of mutilation of the body?
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Kerdy on July 30, 2013, 06:53:23 PM
Sex (which is not the same as gender) is physical. What it is not is always clear-cut.
Not anymore anyway.

It never was. We just didn't know quite how things worked until relatively recently.
Sure it was.  It's just we didn't conjure up this garbage until recently.

Genotypes, phenotypes, and the fact that one may not accurately reflect the other, all were Mendel's work. ::)
Okay
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Kerdy on July 30, 2013, 06:54:29 PM
Sex (which is not the same as gender) is physical. What it is not is always clear-cut.
Not anymore anyway.

It never was. We just didn't know quite how things worked until relatively recently.
Sure it was.  It's just we didn't conjure up this garbage until recently.

Stop the presses! I agree with Kerdy for once.
Is that what the earthquake was all about.   ;D
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Kerdy on July 30, 2013, 06:55:39 PM
So, I am curious.  If I have my shins and femurs reduced in length, implants to make my head larger, an operation to make my eyes look bigger, my skin permanently dyed to a shade of green, and claim I am a Martian, does the fact I spent all of this money on painful operations make a Martian or no?  

What if instead of dying my skin I have lots and lots of hair added to my body, use my knuckles to walk with my shortened legs, have my teeth altered and my face lengthened to look like a chimp, will I be a chimp?  I could make the sounds and sling poop.  

I realize people will become angry for my wording it this way, but in all seriousness there really is no difference between this and what they (and all the others) have done.  They spend thousands to be changed to look like something they really are not in the misguided hope they will be that something.  It does not make them what they want to be.  It makes them the same kind of person who would want to be a Martian or a chimp.  Anyone who does these things has a condition, mental in nature, and to tell them it’s ok is not good and dishonest.  Yes, I know, I am a bad, bad man.


Is gender purely physical?  How reductionist.

Yes, it is.  How scientific (forensics - look it up).
Didn't think you were a materialist.

"Science" doesn't explain much
It explains male and female.  Happens all the time when people find decomposed bodies.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Kerdy on July 30, 2013, 06:56:44 PM
I can't help but think that people didn't have these issues before they had so much free time on their hands to sit around and dwell on what "gender" they identify with the most.  You don't see hordes of people in sub-Saharan Africa concerned about their gender identity.  They are too busy worrying about important things like, you know, eating and finding somewhere to live.  ::)
Indeed.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Kerdy on July 30, 2013, 07:02:25 PM
I wish them all well in life.

I don't think you can repress transsexualism without going insane, while a homosexual can be celibate just as easily as a heterosexual.

Which given how St. Paul implores everyone to be celibate, must mean that gays can be celibate if they happen to have that gift.
What gift?
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Kerdy on July 30, 2013, 07:03:47 PM
Can it be argued that transgender surgery is a form of mutilation of the body?
It could.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Maria on July 30, 2013, 07:27:40 PM
Is it the idea of a vaginoplasty that gives you chills, or the fact that it costs 40 grand?
The former.

It used to happen much more often than you get to hear in the news. In the form of neonatal sex assignment surgery. Without as much as a say from the subject.

In college, we viewed a documentary about botched Jewish circumcisions, where doctors did a neonatal sex assignment surgery as a cover up which was requested by the parents under pressure from their rabbi. Apparently, such errors happen much more than people realize.

Really, what would have been easier and less expensive: (a) to repair the botched circumcision with a simple tissue graft, or (b) to do the neonatal sex assignment surgery with lots of hormonal therapy as the little boy matured into womanhood?
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Santagranddad on July 30, 2013, 07:47:31 PM
Here there have been cases were an individual has 'changed' gender and then found they are not happy and wish to have a second round of surgery to return to their original gender. Some male to female post-op folks still have hands that would do a navvy proud, which tends to undermine their reassignment's credibility.

My take on this is very cautious. And not helped by the number of people who appear to want cosmetic surgeons to improve, alter or change their appearance. May some of this drive to change not be a symptom of profound psychological disorder and is going along with someone's deeply protested wish in this area necessarily good for them or society at large?

Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Shanghaiski on July 30, 2013, 11:19:08 PM
Can it be argued that transgender surgery is a form of mutilation of the body?

It is.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Daedelus1138 on July 31, 2013, 09:24:31 AM
Here there have been cases were an individual has 'changed' gender and then found they are not happy and wish to have a second round of surgery to return to their original gender.

  That is almost always due to religious or ideological indoctrination.  Not all of it is Christian in origin, there are some Hindu cults that have manipulated transsexuals into renouncing their identity.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: dzheremi on July 31, 2013, 10:41:22 AM
Quote
Sexologist John Money coined the term gender role in 1955.

It is true what they say: Money is the root of all evil.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: J Michael on July 31, 2013, 11:41:17 AM
Quote
Sexologist John Money coined the term gender role in 1955.

It is true what they say: Money is the root of all evil.
::)

Now, that was a *cheap* shot!
 ;D
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: LizaSymonenko on July 31, 2013, 12:45:30 PM

I may have wished God made me a male, but, I will have to deal with and accept that I am not. 

I'm also a 6' tall, brunette, with brown eyes.

This is how God made me.  Wishing to be a blonde with blue eyes, while possible these days, would be wrong.  I am what I am.

People will always desire what they do not have.  Grass is always greener on the other side, until you get to the other side and realize it was all crab grass.

Be thankful for what you have.  Find a way to be at peace and make it work.

After all, you are only hear for so many years.  Focus on the important stuff.

Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: TheTrisagion on July 31, 2013, 01:15:30 PM

I may have wished God made me a male, but, I will have to deal with and accept that I am not. 

I'm also a 6' tall, brunette, with brown eyes.

This is how God made me.  Wishing to be a blonde with blue eyes, while possible these days, would be wrong.  I am what I am.

People will always desire what they do not have.  Grass is always greener on the other side, until you get to the other side and realize it was all crab grass.

Be thankful for what you have.  Find a way to be at peace and make it work.

After all, you are only hear for so many years.  Focus on the important stuff.


I like brunettes much better. They always seem to be more intelligent  #stereotyping
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: J Michael on July 31, 2013, 01:44:58 PM

I may have wished God made me a male, but, I will have to deal with and accept that I am not. 

I'm also a 6' tall, brunette, with brown eyes.

This is how God made me.  Wishing to be a blonde with blue eyes, while possible these days, would be wrong.  I am what I am.

People will always desire what they do not have.  Grass is always greener on the other side, until you get to the other side and realize it was all crab grass.

Be thankful for what you have.  Find a way to be at peace and make it work.

After all, you are only hear for so many years.  Focus on the important stuff.



As usual, beautifully said.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: JamesR on July 31, 2013, 02:04:10 PM
...like something they really are not in the misguided hope they will be that something.  It does not make them what they want to be.

Isn't that deification--what the entire Christian life is about? We try to act like gods and pretend we're Divine in hopes we'll one day be like God even though most of us will end up in the furnace?
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Alveus Lacuna on July 31, 2013, 02:09:21 PM
I may have wished God made me a male, but, I will have to deal with and accept that I am not.

Do you really wish you had been created as a man?
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: TheTrisagion on July 31, 2013, 02:10:06 PM
I may have wished God made me a male, but, I will have to deal with and accept that I am not.

Do you really wish you had been created as a man?
Well, we are pretty spectacular as a gender.  ;D
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: JamesR on July 31, 2013, 02:12:08 PM
I wish them all well in life.

I don't think you can repress transsexualism without going insane, while a homosexual can be celibate just as easily as a heterosexual.

What's to be repressed? Transsexualism is not an orientation in itself; there are homosexual transsexuals and (belief it or not) heterosexual transsexuals. I think you are confusing "gender" for sex; the two are not the same thing.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: JamesR on July 31, 2013, 02:13:39 PM
I may have wished God made me a male, but, I will have to deal with and accept that I am not.

Do you really wish you had been created as a man?

Being a man sucks

You have to work, no one is willing to help you, and you pretty much hold the weight of the whole world on your shoulders and are expected to make something out of yourself. Women on the other hand, as politically incorrect as this may be, don't have as much pressure or expectations on them. They can just marry a rich or successful man and that's it, or accept handouts from people, and no one looks down on them. But men have to make it on their own.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: TheTrisagion on July 31, 2013, 02:17:45 PM
I may have wished God made me a male, but, I will have to deal with and accept that I am not.

Do you really wish you had been created as a man?

Being a man sucks

You have to work, no one is willing to help you, and you pretty much hold the weight of the whole world on your shoulders and are expected to make something out of yourself. Women on the other hand, as politically incorrect as this may be, don't have as much pressure or expectations on them. They can just marry a rich or successful man and that's it, or accept handouts from people, and no one looks down on them. But men have to make it on their own.
You have experience with this?
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: LizaSymonenko on July 31, 2013, 02:22:48 PM
I may have wished God made me a male, but, I will have to deal with and accept that I am not.

Do you really wish you had been created as a man?

Some days, yes.

Some days it's a spiritual thing....and other days it is just a physical strength thing.

Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: JamesR on July 31, 2013, 02:26:10 PM
You know what I wish for, more than anything at all?

Non existence

I don't care whether I'm a man or a woman or a monkey or a dang parrot for crying out loud. I'd just rather not exist. God creates us and throws us smack dab in the middle of this senseless, chaotic world like it's some sort of game, and leaves us there with no guidance or aid at all, with the vague options of either a) follow me and do what I say, or b) you'll end up in the furnace. Well what if I just don't want to play the game at all? I never asked to be here. And the fact that the Church condemns suicide so strictly only confirms this grim reality; that with God there is no escape. Even if you kill yourself I'm still going to be there to torment you.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: J Michael on July 31, 2013, 02:31:45 PM
I may have wished God made me a male, but, I will have to deal with and accept that I am not.

Do you really wish you had been created as a man?

Being a man sucks

You have to work, no one is willing to help you, and you pretty much hold the weight of the whole world on your shoulders and are expected to make something out of yourself. Women on the other hand, as politically incorrect as this may be, don't have as much pressure or expectations on them. They can just marry a rich or successful man and that's it, or accept handouts from people, and no one looks down on them. But men have to make it on their own.

When you become a man, and have some first-hand experience under your belt about that, then you can comment with greater authority.

Men have crosses to bear that only we, as men, can bear.  Women have crosses to bear that only they, as women, can bear.  Same applies to the joys in life, of which there are many.  Men and women can help each other bear their crosses and share their joys.  It ain't all doom and gloom, Sunshine...unless you make it that way for yourself!
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: J Michael on July 31, 2013, 02:36:57 PM
You know what I wish for, more than anything at all?

Non existence

I don't care whether I'm a man or a woman or a monkey or a dang parrot for crying out loud. I'd just rather not exist. God creates us and throws us smack dab in the middle of this senseless, chaotic world like it's some sort of game, and leaves us there with no guidance or aid at all, with the vague options of either a) follow me and do what I say, or b) you'll end up in the furnace. Well what if I just don't want to play the game at all? I never asked to be here. And the fact that the Church condemns suicide so strictly only confirms this grim reality; that with God there is no escape. Even if you kill yourself I'm still going to be there to torment you.

Sounds like you need a good, long talk (or 2 or 3...) with a wise priest and/or a good counselor.  In the meantime, knock it off with the self-pity.  LOTS of people have it far worse than you do and complain far, far less--even to the point of rejoicing in and thanking God for everything they have and don't have--including their sufferings.


Oh, and you know that wish for non-existence...........?  Ooopsies....TOO LATE!  Deal with it!
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: LizaSymonenko on July 31, 2013, 02:39:38 PM
I may have wished God made me a male, but, I will have to deal with and accept that I am not.

Do you really wish you had been created as a man?

Being a man sucks

You have to work, no one is willing to help you, and you pretty much hold the weight of the whole world on your shoulders and are expected to make something out of yourself. Women on the other hand, as politically incorrect as this may be, don't have as much pressure or expectations on them. They can just marry a rich or successful man and that's it, or accept handouts from people, and no one looks down on them. But men have to make it on their own.

I could say the same thing about being a female.

You are expected to marry and start a family (and don't forget that ever ticking biological clock).  For those who do, the majority still have to hold down a job, and as a default be the main caregiver of the children, make dinner, wash the dishes, etc.  Granted men do help out, but, the majority of women's work in a couple, still falls to the woman, even if she works outside the home, too.

She cannot join the clergy.  She cannot Commune on various times of the month.  She cannot re-enter the church for 40 days after giving birth...oh yes, there's that whole giving birth thing for those who do.  Ouch. 

For the women who do not marry, well...they need to hold down a job, just like any man would.  Pay the same bills, deal with all the same worries.  Some have dependents to take care of, as well.

Did I mention that even today, women still make less money doing the same job, that men do? 

What women have to deal with that men do not, is all the crap they get from men.  All the innuendos at work and outside work.  All the looks, the whistles, the inappropriate touches, etc.

You get taken at the auto repair shops, you get taken by the furnace repair man, the plumber, etc. Just because they don't see a man standing behind you, they will stiff you for all they can.

I had one auto repair shop give me the run around, until I actually asked my manager at work to come with me during lunch.  The moment they saw him, it all changed.  They took him "in back" to show him the car, etc.

AND....a man who is merely being polite will not automatically be assumed to be flirting and "interested"....while if a female is polite, all of a sudden she's "giving off signals". 

THAT is a huge issue with me.  I am polite....and I cannot tell you how many times it's gotten me in hot water.  Even the guy who delivered the dumpster which I ordered when my basement flooded last month, decided that since I was nice and polite and worried that he not injure himself, I must be interested in him.  What?   ...and the guy automatically knows where I live, because he delivered the dumpster!!  Sheesh!

I was just worried he not get maimed, I wasn't flirting.

So, yes....some days it sucks to be a female, too.

BUT....I know God made me this way for a reason....and 99/100 days it's great and I wouldn't exchange it for anything!  I have so many things that I can and do do, that I wouldn't have done, if I were a man.

However, I could have used the extra muscles when it was time to drag and dump all the wet stuff out of my basement....and I would love to have a man be there when I have repair men over. 

There ought to be a "rent a man" service....just for such occasions.   ;)
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Asteriktos on July 31, 2013, 02:40:45 PM
And the fact that the Church condemns suicide so strictly only confirms this grim reality; that with God there is no escape. Even if you kill yourself I'm still going to be there to torment you.

Let us attend:

Quote
And now look again, and see what will naturally follow it: the prisoners are released and disabused of their error. At first, when any of them is liberated and compelled suddenly to stand up and turn his neck round and walk and look towards the light, he will suffer sharp pains; the glare will distress him, and he will be unable to see the realities of which in his former state he had seen the shadows; and then conceive some one saying to him, that what he saw before was an illusion, but that now, when he is approaching nearer to being and his eye is turned towards more real existence, he has a clearer vision, -what will be his reply? And you may further imagine that his instructor is pointing to the objects as they pass and requiring him to name them, -will he not be perplexed? Will he not fancy that the shadows which he formerly saw are truer than the objects which are now shown to him?

Far truer.

And if he is compelled to look straight at the light, will he not have a pain in his eyes which will make him turn away to take and take in the objects of vision which he can see, and which he will conceive to be in reality clearer than the things which are now being shown to him?

True, he now.

And suppose once more, that he is reluctantly dragged up a steep and rugged ascent, and held fast until he 's forced into the presence of the sun himself, is he not likely to be pained and irritated? When he approaches the light his eyes will be dazzled, and he will not be able to see anything at all of what are now called realities.

Not all in a moment, he said.

He will require to grow accustomed to the sight of the upper world. And first he will see the shadows best, next the reflections of men and other objects in the water, and then the objects themselves; then he will gaze upon the light of the moon and the stars and the spangled heaven; and he will see the sky and the stars by night better than the sun or the light of the sun by day?

Certainly.

Last of he will be able to see the sun, and not mere reflections of him in the water, but he will see him in his own proper place, and not in another; and he will contemplate him as he is.

Certainly.

-- Plato, The Republic
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: J Michael on July 31, 2013, 02:42:30 PM
I may have wished God made me a male, but, I will have to deal with and accept that I am not.

Do you really wish you had been created as a man?

Being a man sucks

You have to work, no one is willing to help you, and you pretty much hold the weight of the whole world on your shoulders and are expected to make something out of yourself. Women on the other hand, as politically incorrect as this may be, don't have as much pressure or expectations on them. They can just marry a rich or successful man and that's it, or accept handouts from people, and no one looks down on them. But men have to make it on their own.

I could say the same thing about being a female.

You are expected to marry and start a family (and don't forget that ever ticking biological clock).  For those who do, the majority still have to hold down a job, and as a default be the main caregiver of the children, make dinner, wash the dishes, etc.  Granted men do help out, but, the majority of women's work in a couple, still falls to the woman, even if she works outside the home, too.

She cannot join the clergy.  She cannot Commune on various times of the month.  She cannot re-enter the church for 40 days after giving birth...oh yes, there's that whole giving birth thing for those who do.  Ouch. 

For the women who do not marry, well...they need to hold down a job, just like any man would.  Pay the same bills, deal with all the same worries.  Some have dependents to take care of, as well.

Did I mention that even today, women still make less money doing the same job, that men do? 

What women have to deal with that men do not, is all the crap they get from men.  All the innuendos at work and outside work.  All the looks, the whistles, the inappropriate touches, etc.

You get taken at the auto repair shops, you get taken by the furnace repair man, the plumber, etc. Just because they don't see a man standing behind you, they will stiff you for all they can.

I had one auto repair shop give me the run around, until I actually asked my manager at work to come with me during lunch.  The moment they saw him, it all changed.  They took him "in back" to show him the car, etc.

AND....a man who is merely being polite will not automatically be assumed to be flirting and "interested"....while if a female is polite, all of a sudden she's "giving off signals". 

THAT is a huge issue with me.  I am polite....and I cannot tell you how many times it's gotten me in hot water.  Even the guy who delivered the dumpster which I ordered when my basement flooded last month, decided that since I was nice and polite and worried that he not injure himself, I must be interested in him.  What?   ...and the guy automatically knows where I live, because he delivered the dumpster!!  Sheesh!

I was just worried he not get maimed, I wasn't flirting.

So, yes....some days it sucks to be a female, too.

BUT....I know God made me this way for a reason....and 99/100 days it's great and I wouldn't exchange it for anything!  I have so many things that I can and do do, that I wouldn't have done, if I were a man.

However, I could have used the extra muscles when it was time to drag and dump all the wet stuff out of my basement....and I would love to have a man be there when I have repair men over. 

There ought to be a "rent a man" service....just for such occasions.   ;)



 :o :o :o :o Liza, please..........now there's a
(http://www.covenanteyes.com/lemonade/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/can-of-worms1.jpg)
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: LizaSymonenko on July 31, 2013, 02:42:54 PM
You know what I wish for, more than anything at all?

Non existence

I don't care whether I'm a man or a woman or a monkey or a dang parrot for crying out loud. I'd just rather not exist. God creates us and throws us smack dab in the middle of this senseless, chaotic world like it's some sort of game, and leaves us there with no guidance or aid at all, with the vague options of either a) follow me and do what I say, or b) you'll end up in the furnace. Well what if I just don't want to play the game at all? I never asked to be here. And the fact that the Church condemns suicide so strictly only confirms this grim reality; that with God there is no escape. Even if you kill yourself I'm still going to be there to torment you.

That's a silly and cowardly approach to life.

Life is what you make it.

If you are having issues, then deal with them.  If you think the world is chaotic, then work at organizing it.

Didn't someone once say "be the change you want to see"?

...and stop picking on God.  You do that a lot, I've noticed.

God hasn't abandoned us.  He's always right there with us.  Every single day and moment.  YOU need to look for Him.  If you aren't seeing Him that's not His fault, but, yours.

Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: LizaSymonenko on July 31, 2013, 02:43:34 PM
I may have wished God made me a male, but, I will have to deal with and accept that I am not.

Do you really wish you had been created as a man?

Being a man sucks

You have to work, no one is willing to help you, and you pretty much hold the weight of the whole world on your shoulders and are expected to make something out of yourself. Women on the other hand, as politically incorrect as this may be, don't have as much pressure or expectations on them. They can just marry a rich or successful man and that's it, or accept handouts from people, and no one looks down on them. But men have to make it on their own.

I could say the same thing about being a female.

You are expected to marry and start a family (and don't forget that ever ticking biological clock).  For those who do, the majority still have to hold down a job, and as a default be the main caregiver of the children, make dinner, wash the dishes, etc.  Granted men do help out, but, the majority of women's work in a couple, still falls to the woman, even if she works outside the home, too.

She cannot join the clergy.  She cannot Commune on various times of the month.  She cannot re-enter the church for 40 days after giving birth...oh yes, there's that whole giving birth thing for those who do.  Ouch. 

For the women who do not marry, well...they need to hold down a job, just like any man would.  Pay the same bills, deal with all the same worries.  Some have dependents to take care of, as well.

Did I mention that even today, women still make less money doing the same job, that men do? 

What women have to deal with that men do not, is all the crap they get from men.  All the innuendos at work and outside work.  All the looks, the whistles, the inappropriate touches, etc.

You get taken at the auto repair shops, you get taken by the furnace repair man, the plumber, etc. Just because they don't see a man standing behind you, they will stiff you for all they can.

I had one auto repair shop give me the run around, until I actually asked my manager at work to come with me during lunch.  The moment they saw him, it all changed.  They took him "in back" to show him the car, etc.

AND....a man who is merely being polite will not automatically be assumed to be flirting and "interested"....while if a female is polite, all of a sudden she's "giving off signals". 

THAT is a huge issue with me.  I am polite....and I cannot tell you how many times it's gotten me in hot water.  Even the guy who delivered the dumpster which I ordered when my basement flooded last month, decided that since I was nice and polite and worried that he not injure himself, I must be interested in him.  What?   ...and the guy automatically knows where I live, because he delivered the dumpster!!  Sheesh!

I was just worried he not get maimed, I wasn't flirting.

So, yes....some days it sucks to be a female, too.

BUT....I know God made me this way for a reason....and 99/100 days it's great and I wouldn't exchange it for anything!  I have so many things that I can and do do, that I wouldn't have done, if I were a man.

However, I could have used the extra muscles when it was time to drag and dump all the wet stuff out of my basement....and I would love to have a man be there when I have repair men over. 

There ought to be a "rent a man" service....just for such occasions.   ;)



 :o :o :o :o Liza, please..........now there's a
(http://www.covenanteyes.com/lemonade/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/can-of-worms1.jpg)

Cool!  Who is up for a fishing trip??  Those worms are perfect!!!  I've not gone yet this summer and am itching to go!
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Asteriktos on July 31, 2013, 02:45:20 PM
I agree with a lot of what you say Liza, however...

AND....a man who is merely being polite will not automatically be assumed to be flirting and "interested"....while if a female is polite, all of a sudden she's "giving off signals". 

If 95% of women didn't insist that guys initiate contact when interested then this wouldn't happen nearly as often. I would much prefer both men and women feeling comfortable approaching whoever they wanted to date and asking them out. Unfortunately this doesn't happen very often, so men are left trying to mind read women and figure out if they're interested or just being polite. One girl I asked out late last year was not only polite, but asked me how my weekend went/was going to go, asked me about vacations, about all sorts of things. She was a bank teller, so I expected her to be polite; but to ask me about all sorts of personal details every time I saw her? I figured I'd give it a shot. Nope, shot down, she already had a boyfriend.  :) :police:
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: J Michael on July 31, 2013, 02:47:33 PM
I may have wished God made me a male, but, I will have to deal with and accept that I am not.

Do you really wish you had been created as a man?

Being a man sucks

You have to work, no one is willing to help you, and you pretty much hold the weight of the whole world on your shoulders and are expected to make something out of yourself. Women on the other hand, as politically incorrect as this may be, don't have as much pressure or expectations on them. They can just marry a rich or successful man and that's it, or accept handouts from people, and no one looks down on them. But men have to make it on their own.

I could say the same thing about being a female.

You are expected to marry and start a family (and don't forget that ever ticking biological clock).  For those who do, the majority still have to hold down a job, and as a default be the main caregiver of the children, make dinner, wash the dishes, etc.  Granted men do help out, but, the majority of women's work in a couple, still falls to the woman, even if she works outside the home, too.

She cannot join the clergy.  She cannot Commune on various times of the month.  She cannot re-enter the church for 40 days after giving birth...oh yes, there's that whole giving birth thing for those who do.  Ouch. 

For the women who do not marry, well...they need to hold down a job, just like any man would.  Pay the same bills, deal with all the same worries.  Some have dependents to take care of, as well.

Did I mention that even today, women still make less money doing the same job, that men do? 

What women have to deal with that men do not, is all the crap they get from men.  All the innuendos at work and outside work.  All the looks, the whistles, the inappropriate touches, etc.

You get taken at the auto repair shops, you get taken by the furnace repair man, the plumber, etc. Just because they don't see a man standing behind you, they will stiff you for all they can.

I had one auto repair shop give me the run around, until I actually asked my manager at work to come with me during lunch.  The moment they saw him, it all changed.  They took him "in back" to show him the car, etc.

AND....a man who is merely being polite will not automatically be assumed to be flirting and "interested"....while if a female is polite, all of a sudden she's "giving off signals". 

THAT is a huge issue with me.  I am polite....and I cannot tell you how many times it's gotten me in hot water.  Even the guy who delivered the dumpster which I ordered when my basement flooded last month, decided that since I was nice and polite and worried that he not injure himself, I must be interested in him.  What?   ...and the guy automatically knows where I live, because he delivered the dumpster!!  Sheesh!

I was just worried he not get maimed, I wasn't flirting.

So, yes....some days it sucks to be a female, too.

BUT....I know God made me this way for a reason....and 99/100 days it's great and I wouldn't exchange it for anything!  I have so many things that I can and do do, that I wouldn't have done, if I were a man.

However, I could have used the extra muscles when it was time to drag and dump all the wet stuff out of my basement....and I would love to have a man be there when I have repair men over. 

There ought to be a "rent a man" service....just for such occasions.   ;)



 :o :o :o :o Liza, please..........now there's a
(http://www.covenanteyes.com/lemonade/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/can-of-worms1.jpg)

Cool!  Who is up for a fishing trip??  Those worms are perfect!!!  I've not gone yet this summer and am itching to go!


Okay, but only if we can eat them.  The FISH, I mean! ;D  (Trouble with fishing, around here anyway, is that you might be itching to go, but really *are* itching all over by the time you get back 8) 8).)
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: JamesR on July 31, 2013, 02:48:47 PM
You know what I wish for, more than anything at all?

Non existence

I don't care whether I'm a man or a woman or a monkey or a dang parrot for crying out loud. I'd just rather not exist. God creates us and throws us smack dab in the middle of this senseless, chaotic world like it's some sort of game, and leaves us there with no guidance or aid at all, with the vague options of either a) follow me and do what I say, or b) you'll end up in the furnace. Well what if I just don't want to play the game at all? I never asked to be here. And the fact that the Church condemns suicide so strictly only confirms this grim reality; that with God there is no escape. Even if you kill yourself I'm still going to be there to torment you.

That's a silly and cowardly approach to life.

Life is what you make it.

If you are having issues, then deal with them.  If you think the world is chaotic, then work at organizing it.

Didn't someone once say "be the change you want to see"?

...and stop picking on God.  You do that a lot, I've noticed.

God hasn't abandoned us.  He's always right there with us.  Every single day and moment.  YOU need to look for Him.  If you aren't seeing Him that's not His fault, but, yours.



But what does it matter if He is "with us" if He doesn't seem to be doing anything for the world? Is He with the millions of starving people, child prostitutes, cancer patients and other unfortunate people in the world? But God is just idly standing by while the world burns, "but don't worry, I'm with you!" as if that is supposed to offer us any sense of comfort. You know what I call people who follow us around but don't do anything? A liability. We waste all this time trying to please this invisible guy who's "with us" when we could be doing something about the world around us because He sure ain't doing anything about it. Personally, I find the fact that God claims to be "with us" while there is so much evil in the world as being more horrifying and heartless on His behalf than if He simply was not here at all. At least then, we wouldn't have to deal with the problem of suffering.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: LizaSymonenko on July 31, 2013, 02:54:45 PM

Okay, but only if we can eat them.  The FISH, I mean! ;D  (Trouble with fishing, around here anyway, is that you might be itching to go, but really *are* itching all over by the time you get back 8) 8).)

Of course.  I'm not the kind to catch and release.  If you aren't going to eat it, why bother catching it?

Mosquitoes are one reason I haven't gone this year.  It's been a very wet summer and they're out in force!
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: LizaSymonenko on July 31, 2013, 02:56:03 PM
You know what I wish for, more than anything at all?

Non existence

I don't care whether I'm a man or a woman or a monkey or a dang parrot for crying out loud. I'd just rather not exist. God creates us and throws us smack dab in the middle of this senseless, chaotic world like it's some sort of game, and leaves us there with no guidance or aid at all, with the vague options of either a) follow me and do what I say, or b) you'll end up in the furnace. Well what if I just don't want to play the game at all? I never asked to be here. And the fact that the Church condemns suicide so strictly only confirms this grim reality; that with God there is no escape. Even if you kill yourself I'm still going to be there to torment you.

That's a silly and cowardly approach to life.

Life is what you make it.

If you are having issues, then deal with them.  If you think the world is chaotic, then work at organizing it.

Didn't someone once say "be the change you want to see"?

...and stop picking on God.  You do that a lot, I've noticed.

God hasn't abandoned us.  He's always right there with us.  Every single day and moment.  YOU need to look for Him.  If you aren't seeing Him that's not His fault, but, yours.



But what does it matter if He is "with us" if He doesn't seem to be doing anything for the world? Is He with the millions of starving people, child prostitutes, cancer patients and other unfortunate people in the world? But God is just idly standing by while the world burns, "but don't worry, I'm with you!" as if that is supposed to offer us any sense of comfort. You know what I call people who follow us around but don't do anything? A liability. We waste all this time trying to please this invisible guy who's "with us" when we could be doing something about the world around us because He sure ain't doing anything about it. Personally, I find the fact that God claims to be "with us" while there is so much evil in the world as being more horrifying and heartless on His behalf than if He simply was not here at all. At least then, we wouldn't have to deal with the problem of suffering.

You shouldn't be trying so hard to "please" Him.  (Please top referring to God as "this guy".)  It should be natural for you to be nice, and loving, caring and helpful.

Why is that so difficult?
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Cyrillic on July 31, 2013, 02:58:04 PM
AND....a man who is merely being polite will not automatically be assumed to be flirting and "interested"

Whenever I talk with girls in a friendly manner my companions always assume that I'm interested in her. So, what you're saying is not exactly true. Well, at least not in my case.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: J Michael on July 31, 2013, 03:00:55 PM
You know what I wish for, more than anything at all?

Non existence

I don't care whether I'm a man or a woman or a monkey or a dang parrot for crying out loud. I'd just rather not exist. God creates us and throws us smack dab in the middle of this senseless, chaotic world like it's some sort of game, and leaves us there with no guidance or aid at all, with the vague options of either a) follow me and do what I say, or b) you'll end up in the furnace. Well what if I just don't want to play the game at all? I never asked to be here. And the fact that the Church condemns suicide so strictly only confirms this grim reality; that with God there is no escape. Even if you kill yourself I'm still going to be there to torment you.

That's a silly and cowardly approach to life.

Life is what you make it.

If you are having issues, then deal with them.  If you think the world is chaotic, then work at organizing it.

Didn't someone once say "be the change you want to see"?

...and stop picking on God.  You do that a lot, I've noticed.

God hasn't abandoned us.  He's always right there with us.  Every single day and moment.  YOU need to look for Him.  If you aren't seeing Him that's not His fault, but, yours.



But what does it matter if He is "with us" if He doesn't seem to be doing anything for the world? Is He with the millions of starving people, child prostitutes, cancer patients and other unfortunate people in the world? But God is just idly standing by while the world burns, "but don't worry, I'm with you!" as if that is supposed to offer us any sense of comfort. You know what I call people who follow us around but don't do anything? A liability. We waste all this time trying to please this invisible guy who's "with us" when we could be doing something about the world around us because He sure ain't doing anything about it. Personally, I find the fact that God claims to be "with us" while there is so much evil in the world as being more horrifying and heartless on His behalf than if He simply was not here at all. At least then, we wouldn't have to deal with the problem of suffering.

You shouldn't be trying so hard to "please" Him.  (Please top referring to God as "this guy".)  It should be natural for you to be nice, and loving, caring and helpful.

Why is that so difficult?


Teenage 'angst' coupled with a need for a good talk with a wise priest or other wise person.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: JamesR on July 31, 2013, 03:02:01 PM
Why is that so difficult?

Because it's a paradox no matter how I look at it.

How do I "love" God, "develop a relationship" with Him or show "kindness" and "respect" to Him if He won't communicate with me and I have no assurance that He is here? He just seems like a deadbeat father.

If, however, God is with us, what does it matter? He doesn't do anything about the evil in the world and just stands idly by, allowing the world to burn. This makes Him even harder to worship because it makes me not like Him.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Cyrillic on July 31, 2013, 03:02:26 PM
You have to work, no one is willing to help you, and you pretty much hold the weight of the whole world on your shoulders and are expected to make something out of yourself.

And that is how you rise to greatness.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: J Michael on July 31, 2013, 03:04:09 PM
Why is that so difficult?

Because it's a paradox no matter how I look at it.

How do I "love" God, "develop a relationship" with Him or show "kindness" and "respect" to Him if He won't communicate with me and I have no assurance that He is here? He just seems like a deadbeat father.

If, however, God is with us, what does it matter? He doesn't do anything about the evil in the world and just stands idly by, allowing the world to burn. This makes Him even harder to worship because it makes me not like Him.

Isn't there already a whole thread devoted to this??
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: LizaSymonenko on July 31, 2013, 03:05:58 PM
Why is that so difficult?

Because it's a paradox no matter how I look at it.

How do I "love" God, "develop a relationship" with Him or show "kindness" and "respect" to Him if He won't communicate with me and I have no assurance that He is here? He just seems like a deadbeat father.

If, however, God is with us, what does it matter? He doesn't do anything about the evil in the world and just stands idly by, allowing the world to burn. This makes Him even harder to worship because it makes me not like Him.

It's called free will.

People will always find something to complain about.

Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: J Michael on July 31, 2013, 03:08:37 PM
Why is that so difficult?

Because it's a paradox no matter how I look at it.

How do I "love" God, "develop a relationship" with Him or show "kindness" and "respect" to Him if He won't communicate with me and I have no assurance that He is here? He just seems like a deadbeat father.

If, however, God is with us, what does it matter? He doesn't do anything about the evil in the world and just stands idly by, allowing the world to burn. This makes Him even harder to worship because it makes me not like Him.

It's called free will.

People will always find something to complain about.



Teenagers are especially good at it. ::)
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: TheTrisagion on July 31, 2013, 03:09:27 PM
You know what I wish for, more than anything at all?

Non existence

I don't care whether I'm a man or a woman or a monkey or a dang parrot for crying out loud. I'd just rather not exist. God creates us and throws us smack dab in the middle of this senseless, chaotic world like it's some sort of game, and leaves us there with no guidance or aid at all, with the vague options of either a) follow me and do what I say, or b) you'll end up in the furnace. Well what if I just don't want to play the game at all? I never asked to be here. And the fact that the Church condemns suicide so strictly only confirms this grim reality; that with God there is no escape. Even if you kill yourself I'm still going to be there to torment you.
Almost every single person that I have ever run into that wishes they didn't exist has been a teenager.  In fact, I was the same way when I was a teen.  The issue is not so much the problem of existence as it is the problem that a teen is looking into a very scary future that he/she doesn't know how to deal with and it overwhelms them.  They don't have the experience to know that they will be able to make it in the world, but they are too proud to admit that they can't handle it.  I know it sucks at age 17, but in 10 years, you will look back and think: gee, I've come a long way and I've got a long way to go.  It is your emotions that are tormenting you so much, not your circumstance.  Learning how to deal with them and self regulate your emotions will serve you well as you age and mature.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: vamrat on July 31, 2013, 03:21:22 PM
Most people who complain about how horrible the world is have never really had it hard.  I don't care that you grew up in the ghetto.  My grandma grew up listening to British bombers blasting crap all night, then seeing Russian dive bombers hitting a ship full of wounded men, and listening to them scream as it went down.  I never hear her bitch about life and I never hear her gripe about God not stopping people from doing evil things that she saw with her very eyes.

When life really does suck, people always seem to either focus on the good or cut the talk and grab the Glock.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Cyrillic on July 31, 2013, 03:43:29 PM
Why is that so difficult?

Because it's a paradox no matter how I look at it.

How do I "love" God, "develop a relationship" with Him or show "kindness" and "respect" to Him if He won't communicate with me and I have no assurance that He is here? He just seems like a deadbeat father.

If, however, God is with us, what does it matter? He doesn't do anything about the evil in the world and just stands idly by, allowing the world to burn. This makes Him even harder to worship because it makes me not like Him.

It's called free will.

People will always find something to complain about.



Teenagers are especially good at it. ::)

That's ageism!

Btw: old people are good at complaining too.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: J Michael on July 31, 2013, 03:51:26 PM
Why is that so difficult?

Because it's a paradox no matter how I look at it.

How do I "love" God, "develop a relationship" with Him or show "kindness" and "respect" to Him if He won't communicate with me and I have no assurance that He is here? He just seems like a deadbeat father.

If, however, God is with us, what does it matter? He doesn't do anything about the evil in the world and just stands idly by, allowing the world to burn. This makes Him even harder to worship because it makes me not like Him.

It's called free will.

People will always find something to complain about.



Teenagers are especially good at it. ::)

That's ageism!

Btw: old people are good at complaining too.

Ageism, smageism, smurfism!

I didn't say they weren't.  They are.  You should meet my father-in-law.  Well...maybe not.  Only at your peril.  But teenagers are especially good at it.  Except, of course, Dutch teenagers ;).

EDIT:  American teenagers probably are world champs at complaining.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: LizaSymonenko on July 31, 2013, 03:53:59 PM
Most people who complain about how horrible the world is have never really had it hard.  I don't care that you grew up in the ghetto.  My grandma grew up listening to British bombers blasting crap all night, then seeing Russian dive bombers hitting a ship full of wounded men, and listening to them scream as it went down.  I never hear her bitch about life and I never hear her gripe about God not stopping people from doing evil things that she saw with her very eyes.

When life really does suck, people always seem to either focus on the good or cut the talk and grab the Glock.

Well said.

My mom, too.  Lived through all kinds of horrors as a child, had a difficult life and marriage, suffers from illness in old age....and not a peep of complaining.  Nada. 

Prays and glorifies God at all times, for all things.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Asteriktos on July 31, 2013, 03:56:15 PM
EDIT:  American teenagers probably are world champs at complaining.

Reminds me of a pic I saw the other day...

(http://funnyasduck.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/funny-spoiled-girl-kid-african-rock-camera-pics.jpg)
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: J Michael on July 31, 2013, 03:57:45 PM
EDIT:  American teenagers probably are world champs at complaining.

Reminds me of a pic I saw the other day...

(http://funnyasduck.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/funny-spoiled-girl-kid-african-rock-camera-pics.jpg)
+100
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: LizaSymonenko on July 31, 2013, 03:58:51 PM

+1000
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: J Michael on July 31, 2013, 04:10:56 PM
You know what I wish for, more than anything at all?

Non existence

I don't care whether I'm a man or a woman or a monkey or a dang parrot for crying out loud. I'd just rather not exist. God creates us and throws us smack dab in the middle of this senseless, chaotic world like it's some sort of game, and leaves us there with no guidance or aid at all, with the vague options of either a) follow me and do what I say, or b) you'll end up in the furnace. Well what if I just don't want to play the game at all? I never asked to be here. And the fact that the Church condemns suicide so strictly only confirms this grim reality; that with God there is no escape. Even if you kill yourself I'm still going to be there to torment you.
Almost every single person that I have ever run into that wishes they didn't exist has been a teenager.  In fact, I was the same way when I was a teen.  The issue is not so much the problem of existence as it is the problem that a teen is looking into a very scary future that he/she doesn't know how to deal with and it overwhelms them.  They don't have the experience to know that they will be able to make it in the world, but they are too proud to admit that they can't handle it.  I know it sucks at age 17, but in 10 years, you will look back and think: gee, I've come a long way and I've got a long way to go.  It is your emotions that are tormenting you so much, not your circumstance.  Learning how to deal with them and self regulate your emotions will serve you well as you age and mature.

Reminds me of the old joke: A guy (probably an American Hispanic teenager ;D ;D) was bitching and moaning about his lot in his short life.  A friendly and wise (Orthodox) priest came along, listened quite carefully and attentively to him for a long period of time.  Then, when the complainer had finally run out of things to complain about, the friendly and wise priest offered this sage advice: "Cheer up!  Things could always be worse."  So, he cheered up and sure enough, things got worse! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: TheTrisagion on July 31, 2013, 04:14:12 PM
You know what I wish for, more than anything at all?

Non existence

I don't care whether I'm a man or a woman or a monkey or a dang parrot for crying out loud. I'd just rather not exist. God creates us and throws us smack dab in the middle of this senseless, chaotic world like it's some sort of game, and leaves us there with no guidance or aid at all, with the vague options of either a) follow me and do what I say, or b) you'll end up in the furnace. Well what if I just don't want to play the game at all? I never asked to be here. And the fact that the Church condemns suicide so strictly only confirms this grim reality; that with God there is no escape. Even if you kill yourself I'm still going to be there to torment you.
Almost every single person that I have ever run into that wishes they didn't exist has been a teenager.  In fact, I was the same way when I was a teen.  The issue is not so much the problem of existence as it is the problem that a teen is looking into a very scary future that he/she doesn't know how to deal with and it overwhelms them.  They don't have the experience to know that they will be able to make it in the world, but they are too proud to admit that they can't handle it.  I know it sucks at age 17, but in 10 years, you will look back and think: gee, I've come a long way and I've got a long way to go.  It is your emotions that are tormenting you so much, not your circumstance.  Learning how to deal with them and self regulate your emotions will serve you well as you age and mature.

Reminds me of the old joke: A guy (probably an American Hispanic teenager ;D ;D) was bitching and moaning about his lot in his short life.  A friendly and wise (Orthodox) priest came along, listened quite carefully and attentively to him for a long period of time.  Then, when the complainer had finally run out of things to complain about, the friendly and wise priest offered this sage advice: "Cheer up!  Things could always be worse."  So, he cheered up and sure enough, things got worse! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
He probably ended up biting his tongue and had no friends that symathized with him properly.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: J Michael on July 31, 2013, 04:19:31 PM
You know what I wish for, more than anything at all?

Non existence

I don't care whether I'm a man or a woman or a monkey or a dang parrot for crying out loud. I'd just rather not exist. God creates us and throws us smack dab in the middle of this senseless, chaotic world like it's some sort of game, and leaves us there with no guidance or aid at all, with the vague options of either a) follow me and do what I say, or b) you'll end up in the furnace. Well what if I just don't want to play the game at all? I never asked to be here. And the fact that the Church condemns suicide so strictly only confirms this grim reality; that with God there is no escape. Even if you kill yourself I'm still going to be there to torment you.
Almost every single person that I have ever run into that wishes they didn't exist has been a teenager.  In fact, I was the same way when I was a teen.  The issue is not so much the problem of existence as it is the problem that a teen is looking into a very scary future that he/she doesn't know how to deal with and it overwhelms them.  They don't have the experience to know that they will be able to make it in the world, but they are too proud to admit that they can't handle it.  I know it sucks at age 17, but in 10 years, you will look back and think: gee, I've come a long way and I've got a long way to go.  It is your emotions that are tormenting you so much, not your circumstance.  Learning how to deal with them and self regulate your emotions will serve you well as you age and mature.

Reminds me of the old joke: A guy (probably an American Hispanic teenager ;D ;D) was bitching and moaning about his lot in his short life.  A friendly and wise (Orthodox) priest came along, listened quite carefully and attentively to him for a long period of time.  Then, when the complainer had finally run out of things to complain about, the friendly and wise priest offered this sage advice: "Cheer up!  Things could always be worse."  So, he cheered up and sure enough, things got worse! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
He probably ended up biting his tongue and had no friends that symathized with him properly.
ROTFL!!!!!!
 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

How did you know??
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: LizaSymonenko on July 31, 2013, 04:19:45 PM
Video about shoes - worth the 3 minutes to watch it.  Packs quite a punch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uofFHeP-9zM
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: J Michael on July 31, 2013, 04:21:58 PM
Video about shoes - worth the 3 minutes to watch it.  Packs quite a punch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uofFHeP-9zM


Can't  :(.  Youtube blocked  :( :(.  Can we have pity party for ME now??  PLEASE!!!!
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: LizaSymonenko on July 31, 2013, 04:23:22 PM

Watch it when you get home.

What about Facebook?  Blocked?

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=177898039056283&set=vb.306430396123877&type=2&theater
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: J Michael on July 31, 2013, 04:27:52 PM

Watch it when you get home.

What about Facebook?  Blocked?

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=177898039056283&set=vb.306430396123877&type=2&theater

I rarely use the computer at home.  A little bit on weekends.  I'll try to remember.  But...woe is me, oh woe, woe, woe is me, I'm old and my memory sucks big time ;D ;D ;D.

Facebook?  Books have faces??  Don't do Facebook, twitter, iphone, ipad, youphone, theyphone, ain't got no black or blue or dingle berry device either.  I'd probably be using a 286 computer if mine still worked  :D.

EDIT:  Yup.  Facebook's blocked.  :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Asteriktos on July 31, 2013, 04:37:25 PM
I'd probably be using a 286 computer if mine still worked  :D.

I heard they're coming out with these circular disc things pretty soon and we'll be able to ditch the 5 1/4s...   it's gonna be so awesome!
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: J Michael on July 31, 2013, 04:43:06 PM
I'd probably be using a 286 computer if mine still worked  :D.

I heard they're coming out with these circular disc things pretty soon and we'll be able to ditch the 5 1/4s...   it's gonna be so awesome!

<<crawls further under his rock, grimacing>>
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Cyrillic on July 31, 2013, 04:56:37 PM
"Cheer up!  Things could always be worse."  So, he cheered up and sure enough, things got worse! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Cheer up Brian. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlBiLNN1NhQ)
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Arachne on July 31, 2013, 05:07:44 PM
"Cheer up!  Things could always be worse."  So, he cheered up and sure enough, things got worse! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Cheer up Brian. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlBiLNN1NhQ)

Things are never so bad that they can't go worse. So beware of famous last words.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: vamrat on July 31, 2013, 05:12:07 PM
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lnggmrXgbm1qbw3a4o1_400.gif)
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Maria on July 31, 2013, 05:12:43 PM

Okay, but only if we can eat them.  The FISH, I mean! ;D  (Trouble with fishing, around here anyway, is that you might be itching to go, but really *are* itching all over by the time you get back 8) 8).)

Of course.  I'm not the kind to catch and release.  If you aren't going to eat it, why bother catching it?

Mosquitoes are one reason I haven't gone this year.  It's been a very wet summer and they're out in force!


Have you ever heard of BEST YET (mosquitoes and fleas) or Tickshield (stronger solution for ticks and mosquitoes in the water sheds and wooded areas) at www.cedarcide.com or Badger Balm Anti-Bug Balm (www.badgerbalm.com)? They work.

They are great pest deterrents.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Kerdy on July 31, 2013, 05:19:03 PM
...like something they really are not in the misguided hope they will be that something.  It does not make them what they want to be.

Isn't that deification--what the entire Christian life is about? We try to act like gods and pretend we're Divine in hopes we'll one day be like God even though most of us will end up in the furnace?
Nope
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Kerdy on July 31, 2013, 05:20:42 PM
I wish them all well in life.

I don't think you can repress transsexualism without going insane, while a homosexual can be celibate just as easily as a heterosexual.

What's to be repressed? Transsexualism is not an orientation in itself; there are homosexual transsexuals and (belief it or not) heterosexual transsexuals. I think you are confusing "gender" for sex; the two are not the same thing.
They aren't the same any longer because people muddy the waters.  They used to be the same.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Arachne on July 31, 2013, 05:25:17 PM
I wish them all well in life.

I don't think you can repress transsexualism without going insane, while a homosexual can be celibate just as easily as a heterosexual.

What's to be repressed? Transsexualism is not an orientation in itself; there are homosexual transsexuals and (belief it or not) heterosexual transsexuals. I think you are confusing "gender" for sex; the two are not the same thing.
They aren't the same any longer because people muddy the waters.  They used to be the same.

They aren't the same any longer because we no longer live in a single society without any contact with others, differently-ruled ones. The separation of biological and social characteristics was a necessary one.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Cyrillic on July 31, 2013, 05:26:32 PM
You can be effeminate, but you're still a man. Your gender doesn't change.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Kerdy on July 31, 2013, 05:26:40 PM
I wish them all well in life.

I don't think you can repress transsexualism without going insane, while a homosexual can be celibate just as easily as a heterosexual.

What's to be repressed? Transsexualism is not an orientation in itself; there are homosexual transsexuals and (belief it or not) heterosexual transsexuals. I think you are confusing "gender" for sex; the two are not the same thing.
They aren't the same any longer because people muddy the waters.  They used to be the same.

They aren't the same any longer because we no longer live in a single society without any contact with others, differently-ruled ones. The separation of biological and social characteristics was a necessary one.
Muddy waters...
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Aedificare on July 31, 2013, 05:27:09 PM

What's to be repressed? Transsexualism is not an orientation in itself; there are homosexual transsexuals and (belief it or not) heterosexual transsexuals. I think you are confusing "gender" for sex; the two are not the same thing.
They aren't the same any longer because people muddy the waters.  They used to be the same.

I don't think that's fair at all. Transsexalism is completely different from anything with sexual orientation.
After Hormone Therapy the person looses all lobido, it has nothing to do with sex. They actually lose all their desire for it. To gain their libido back they have to lower their female hormone intake temporarily which isn't something that most would even consider.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Arachne on July 31, 2013, 05:27:49 PM
You can be effeminate, but you're still a man. Your gender doesn't change.

Other way around, actually. Your sex remains unchanged, but your gender identity shifts.

http://www.who.int/gender/whatisgender/en/
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: JamesR on July 31, 2013, 05:27:53 PM
I wish them all well in life.

I don't think you can repress transsexualism without going insane, while a homosexual can be celibate just as easily as a heterosexual.

What's to be repressed? Transsexualism is not an orientation in itself; there are homosexual transsexuals and (belief it or not) heterosexual transsexuals. I think you are confusing "gender" for sex; the two are not the same thing.
They aren't the same any longer because people muddy the waters.  They used to be the same.

No, they aren't the same any longer because we no longer confuse biology and culture. If I wear a dress, does that make me a woman? No. If a little boy plays with Barbies, does that make him a girl? No. Does it make him homosexual? No. People will be homosexual or heterosexual either way, but their cultural preferences like what they like to wear or play with doesn't really make a difference.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Kerdy on July 31, 2013, 05:28:22 PM
You can be effeminate, but you're still a man. Your gender doesn't change.
You can be post op, wear a dress, take estrogen injections and walk in high heels and you're still a man.  Your gender didnt change.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Kerdy on July 31, 2013, 05:28:58 PM
You can be effeminate, but you're still a man. Your gender doesn't change.

Other way around, actually. Your sex remains unchanged, but your gender identity shifts.

http://www.who.int/gender/whatisgender/en/
Muddy waters...
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: JamesR on July 31, 2013, 05:29:04 PM
You can be effeminate, but you're still a man. Your gender doesn't change.
You can be post op, wear a dress, take estrogen injections and walk in high heels and you're still a man.  Your gender didnt change.

Your gender changed because gender is subjective and cultural, but your sex is still the same.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Kerdy on July 31, 2013, 05:30:19 PM
I wish them all well in life.

I don't think you can repress transsexualism without going insane, while a homosexual can be celibate just as easily as a heterosexual.

What's to be repressed? Transsexualism is not an orientation in itself; there are homosexual transsexuals and (belief it or not) heterosexual transsexuals. I think you are confusing "gender" for sex; the two are not the same thing.
They aren't the same any longer because people muddy the waters.  They used to be the same.

No, they aren't the same any longer because we no longer confuse biology and culture.
Corrected.

Muddy waters...
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Kerdy on July 31, 2013, 05:31:25 PM
You can be effeminate, but you're still a man. Your gender doesn't change.
You can be post op, wear a dress, take estrogen injections and walk in high heels and you're still a man.  Your gender didnt change.

Your gender changed because gender is subjective and cultural, but your sex is still the same.
Sorry, gender didn't change. The only change is the way people now define it.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Arachne on July 31, 2013, 05:31:43 PM
You can be effeminate, but you're still a man. Your gender doesn't change.
You can be post op, wear a dress, take estrogen injections and walk in high heels and you're still a man.  Your gender didnt change.

Your sex may or may not have changed, depending on what the chromosome combination was before. If you live as a woman, the gender has definitely changed.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Aedificare on July 31, 2013, 05:33:05 PM

Someone had their heart broken by a 'biological male'   ::)
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: TheTrisagion on July 31, 2013, 05:41:36 PM
You can be effeminate, but you're still a man. Your gender doesn't change.
You can be post op, wear a dress, take estrogen injections and walk in high heels and you're still a man.  Your gender didnt change.

Your sex may or may not have changed, depending on what the chromosome combination was before. If you live as a woman, the gender has definitely changed.

Quote
gen·der  (jndr)
n.
1. Grammar
a. A grammatical category used in the classification of nouns, pronouns, adjectives, and, in some languages, verbs that may be arbitrary or based on characteristics such as sex or animacy and that determines agreement with or selection of modifiers, referents, or grammatical forms.

I blame it all on the pronouns.  ;)
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Cyrillic on July 31, 2013, 05:43:04 PM
You can be effeminate, but you're still a man. Your gender doesn't change.
You can be post op, wear a dress, take estrogen injections and walk in high heels and you're still a man.  Your gender didnt change.

Your gender changed because gender is subjective and cultural, but your sex is still the same.

That's nonsense and you know it.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Arachne on July 31, 2013, 05:46:30 PM
You can be effeminate, but you're still a man. Your gender doesn't change.
You can be post op, wear a dress, take estrogen injections and walk in high heels and you're still a man.  Your gender didnt change.

Your sex may or may not have changed, depending on what the chromosome combination was before. If you live as a woman, the gender has definitely changed.

Quote
gen·der  (jndr)
n.
1. Grammar
a. A grammatical category used in the classification of nouns, pronouns, adjectives, and, in some languages, verbs that may be arbitrary or based on characteristics such as sex or animacy and that determines agreement with or selection of modifiers, referents, or grammatical forms.

I blame it all on the pronouns.  ;)

We know English speakers have a world of trouble separating physical and grammatical gender. We'll go easy on you.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: TheTrisagion on July 31, 2013, 05:53:53 PM
You can be effeminate, but you're still a man. Your gender doesn't change.
You can be post op, wear a dress, take estrogen injections and walk in high heels and you're still a man.  Your gender didnt change.

Your sex may or may not have changed, depending on what the chromosome combination was before. If you live as a woman, the gender has definitely changed.

Quote
gen·der  (jndr)
n.
1. Grammar
a. A grammatical category used in the classification of nouns, pronouns, adjectives, and, in some languages, verbs that may be arbitrary or based on characteristics such as sex or animacy and that determines agreement with or selection of modifiers, referents, or grammatical forms.

I blame it all on the pronouns.  ;)

We know English speakers have a world of trouble separating physical and grammatical gender. We'll go easy on you.
:D
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Asteriktos on July 31, 2013, 05:55:47 PM
Her restraint in not blaming it on you being an American, and thus not knowing proper English to begin with, is commendable!
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: TheTrisagion on July 31, 2013, 05:58:32 PM
Her restraint in not blaming it on you being an American, and thus not knowing proper English to begin with, is commendable!
I refused to be confined by grammatical gender.  From now I all gender specific words shall be replaced with the word "twig"
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Asteriktos on July 31, 2013, 06:21:16 PM
I refused to be confined by grammatical gender.  From now I all gender specific words shall be replaced with the word "twig"

This is funny, whether you meant it to be a subtle joke associated with the musician Twiggy or not  8)
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: DeniseDenise on July 31, 2013, 07:41:37 PM


Your gender changed because gender is subjective and cultural, but your sex is still the same.

That's nonsense and you know it.

Actually...its not nonsense....some people wouldn't get sex even if they changed gender.  ;)
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Kerdy on July 31, 2013, 11:10:35 PM
You can be effeminate, but you're still a man. Your gender doesn't change.
You can be post op, wear a dress, take estrogen injections and walk in high heels and you're still a man.  Your gender didnt change.

Your sex may or may not have changed, depending on what the chromosome combination was before. If you live as a woman, the gender has definitely changed.
The definition certainly has changed.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: TheMathematician on July 31, 2013, 11:11:42 PM
Gender is a grammatical construct.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Kerdy on July 31, 2013, 11:14:27 PM
Sex (which is not the same as gender) is physical. What it is not is always clear-cut.
Not anymore anyway.

" the state of being male or female"

It's origins go back to the 14th century identifying masculine and feminine.

DNA can determine whether a person was male or female who has long since died. 
Reposting for those who missed it the first time.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Shanghaiski on July 31, 2013, 11:41:27 PM
Gender is a grammatical construct.

Although sometimes it involves grammatical destruction as in "Each child should have their own book."
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Shanghaiski on July 31, 2013, 11:47:27 PM
Most people who complain about how horrible the world is have never really had it hard.  I don't care that you grew up in the ghetto.  My grandma grew up listening to British bombers blasting crap all night, then seeing Russian dive bombers hitting a ship full of wounded men, and listening to them scream as it went down.  I never hear her bitch about life and I never hear her gripe about God not stopping people from doing evil things that she saw with her very eyes.

When life really does suck, people always seem to either focus on the good or cut the talk and grab the Glock.

This post deserves some kind of recognition.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Shanghaiski on July 31, 2013, 11:49:24 PM
Video about shoes - worth the 3 minutes to watch it.  Packs quite a punch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uofFHeP-9zM


Can't  :(.  Youtube blocked  :( :(.  Can we have pity party for ME now??  PLEASE!!!!

I feel sorry for you. Do you feel better?
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Shanghaiski on July 31, 2013, 11:51:25 PM
...like something they really are not in the misguided hope they will be that something.  It does not make them what they want to be.

Isn't that deification--what the entire Christian life is about? We try to act like gods and pretend we're Divine in hopes we'll one day be like God even though most of us will end up in the furnace?
Nope

What kind of psychotic pseudoprotestantism is that?
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Shanghaiski on July 31, 2013, 11:55:02 PM
Her restraint in not blaming it on you being an American, and thus not knowing proper English to begin with, is commendable!
I refused to be confined by grammatical gender.  From now I all gender specific words shall be replaced with the word "twig"

Don't you think that's still shows gender bias?
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Kerdy on August 01, 2013, 07:34:30 AM
Most people who complain about how horrible the world is have never really had it hard.  I don't care that you grew up in the ghetto.  My grandma grew up listening to British bombers blasting crap all night, then seeing Russian dive bombers hitting a ship full of wounded men, and listening to them scream as it went down.  I never hear her bitch about life and I never hear her gripe about God not stopping people from doing evil things that she saw with her very eyes.

When life really does suck, people always seem to either focus on the good or cut the talk and grab the Glock.

This post deserves some kind of recognition.

Personally, I prefer Sig Sauer, but that's me. ;D
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Kerdy on August 01, 2013, 07:35:50 AM
...like something they really are not in the misguided hope they will be that something.  It does not make them what they want to be.

Isn't that deification--what the entire Christian life is about? We try to act like gods and pretend we're Divine in hopes we'll one day be like God even though most of us will end up in the furnace?
Nope

What kind of psychotic pseudoprotestantism is that?

None.  It was a response to what he replied to in an incorrect fashion.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Quinault on August 01, 2013, 07:40:41 AM
I wish them all the best and hope they find all happiness in life.

-c
I hope they find Jesus.

Is Jesus lost? ???
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Kerdy on August 01, 2013, 08:36:17 AM
I wish them all the best and hope they find all happiness in life.

-c
I hope they find Jesus.

Is Jesus lost? ???

Almost funny.  Keep working on it.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: J Michael on August 01, 2013, 09:00:01 AM
I wish them all well in life.

I don't think you can repress transsexualism without going insane, while a homosexual can be celibate just as easily as a heterosexual.

What's to be repressed? Transsexualism is not an orientation in itself; there are homosexual transsexuals and (belief it or not) heterosexual transsexuals. I think you are confusing "gender" for sex; the two are not the same thing.
They aren't the same any longer because people muddy the waters.  They used to be the same.

No, they aren't the same any longer because we no longer confuse biology and culture.
Corrected.

Muddy waters...

No...THIS is Muddy Waters:
(http://www.nepr.net/sites/default/files/Muddy-Waters.jpg)

And if you're not familiar with his music, how can you call yourself an American??  8)
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: J Michael on August 01, 2013, 09:01:36 AM
Video about shoes - worth the 3 minutes to watch it.  Packs quite a punch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uofFHeP-9zM


Can't  :(.  Youtube blocked  :( :(.  Can we have pity party for ME now??  PLEASE!!!!

I feel sorry for you. Do you feel better?

Thank you, thank you, thank you, God bless you, thank you, you're an absolute angel, thank you, God bless you, ohhhh.......thank you!!  NOW I really do feel better.

Thank you.  ;D
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Quinault on August 01, 2013, 09:11:39 AM
I wish them all well in life.

I don't think you can repress transsexualism without going insane, while a homosexual can be celibate just as easily as a heterosexual.

What's to be repressed? Transsexualism is not an orientation in itself; there are homosexual transsexuals and (belief it or not) heterosexual transsexuals. I think you are confusing "gender" for sex; the two are not the same thing.
They aren't the same any longer because people muddy the waters.  They used to be the same.

No, they aren't the same any longer because we no longer confuse biology and culture.
Corrected.

Muddy waters...

No...THIS is Muddy Waters:
(http://www.nepr.net/sites/default/files/Muddy-Waters.jpg)

And if you're not familiar with his music, how can you call yourself an American??  8)

I agree! ;D
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: LizaSymonenko on August 01, 2013, 01:31:42 PM

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-23464947

The US Navy Seal who went from Chris to Kristin

Chris Beck spent 20 years operating in secret behind enemy lines as an elite US Navy Seal. But the highly decorated serviceman was always hiding a deeper, personal secret - since early childhood, he felt he was a female born into a male body.

(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/69050000/jpg/_69050688_chris_kristin.jpg)
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: J Michael on August 01, 2013, 01:51:07 PM

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-23464947

The US Navy Seal who went from Chris to Kristin

Chris Beck spent 20 years operating in secret behind enemy lines as an elite US Navy Seal. But the highly decorated serviceman was always hiding a deeper, personal secret - since early childhood, he felt he was a female born into a male body.

(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/69050000/jpg/_69050688_chris_kristin.jpg)

Wow!  He/she did some pretty "manly" stuff for being a "woman", er, a..well...whatever. (Apologies for stereotyping?)  Guess there's hope yet for women being admitted to special forces and SEAL training.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: vamrat on August 01, 2013, 02:46:14 PM
Pretty tough looking guy.  If I were gay, I'd say he was hawt.  Not the prettiest girl I have ever seen.  Sad.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Daedelus1138 on August 01, 2013, 02:59:12 PM
Wow!  He/she did some pretty "manly" stuff for being a "woman", er, a..well...whatever. (Apologies for stereotyping?)  Guess there's hope yet for women being admitted to special forces and SEAL training.

  That's not that rare among transsexuals.  Some try to dive into hypermasculine personas hoping it will get rid of their intense gender dysphoria, but it usually doesn't work.  One of the first public transsexuals in Britain was a former race-car driver and adventurer.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: J Michael on August 01, 2013, 03:07:50 PM
Wow!  He/she did some pretty "manly" stuff for being a "woman", er, a..well...whatever. (Apologies for stereotyping?)  Guess there's hope yet for women being admitted to special forces and SEAL training.

  That's not that rare among transsexuals.  Some try to dive into hypermasculine personas hoping it will get rid of their intense gender dysphoria, but it usually doesn't work.  One of the first public transsexuals in Britain was a former race-car driver and adventurer.

 :(
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Kerdy on August 01, 2013, 06:39:25 PM

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-23464947

The US Navy Seal who went from Chris to Kristin

Chris Beck spent 20 years operating in secret behind enemy lines as an elite US Navy Seal. But the highly decorated serviceman was always hiding a deeper, personal secret - since early childhood, he felt he was a female born into a male body.

(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/69050000/jpg/_69050688_chris_kristin.jpg)
And he is still a he. 

"I know who I am!  I'm a dude, pretending to be a dude, disguised as another dude!"
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: JamesRottnek on August 01, 2013, 07:05:48 PM
Sex (which is not the same as gender) is physical. What it is not is always clear-cut.
Not anymore anyway.

" the state of being male or female"

It's origins go back to the 14th century identifying masculine and feminine.

DNA can determine whether a person was male or female who has long since died. 
Reposting for those who missed it the first time.

Is masculine the same as male?  Is feminine the same as female?
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Quinault on August 01, 2013, 07:39:55 PM
I wish them all the best and hope they find all happiness in life.

-c
I hope they find Jesus.

Is Jesus lost? ???

Almost funny.  Keep working on it.

You don't really hope they "find Jesus." Your posts following that one made it clear that you see them with nothing but contempt and judgement. You were using that lovely language of Christian-ese to make a judgement on them. You have no clue as to whether or not they are Christian. You assume they are not. It is quite possible they are closer to living a Christian life than you are. If you want to judge/condemn them, at least have the integrity not to involve Christ in it. Because you are a sinner right along with them. And you are in need of "finding Jesus" just as much as they are.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Kerdy on August 01, 2013, 07:44:01 PM
I wish them all the best and hope they find all happiness in life.

-c
I hope they find Jesus.

Is Jesus lost? ???

Almost funny.  Keep working on it.

You don't really hope they "find Jesus."
Yes, I really do, Professor Xavier.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Kerdy on August 01, 2013, 07:46:11 PM
I wish them all the best and hope they find all happiness in life.

-c
I hope they find Jesus.

Is Jesus lost? ???

Almost funny.  Keep working on it.

You don't really hope they "find Jesus." Your posts following that one made it clear that you see them with nothing but contempt and judgement. You were using that lovely language of Christian-ese to make a judgement on them. You have no clue as to whether or not they are Christian. You assume they are not. It is quite possible they are closer to living a Christian life than you are. If you want to judge/condemn them, at least have the integrity not to involve Christ in it. Because you are a sinner right along with them. And you are in need of "finding Jesus" just as much as they are.
What is laughable is you doing to me what you feel I was doing to them.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Quinault on August 01, 2013, 07:58:48 PM
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-0sxc8yMMLlo/TkQIc5c9VQI/AAAAAAAAGk8/fQamNYOToQA/s1600/coffeewithjesus65.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/0T8fT.png)
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Kerdy on August 01, 2013, 08:00:28 PM
Cute cartoon, but it doesn't really apply to the thread.  Well, unless you want to make a point of how hypocritical the proponents to normalize homosexuality are.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Shanghaiski on August 01, 2013, 08:16:10 PM
...like something they really are not in the misguided hope they will be that something.  It does not make them what they want to be.

Isn't that deification--what the entire Christian life is about? We try to act like gods and pretend we're Divine in hopes we'll one day be like God even though most of us will end up in the furnace?
Nope

What kind of psychotic pseudoprotestantism is that?

None.  It was a response to what he replied to in an incorrect fashion.

My comment was in response to the one before yours, sorry
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Kerdy on August 01, 2013, 08:24:40 PM
...like something they really are not in the misguided hope they will be that something.  It does not make them what they want to be.

Isn't that deification--what the entire Christian life is about? We try to act like gods and pretend we're Divine in hopes we'll one day be like God even though most of us will end up in the furnace?
Nope

What kind of psychotic pseudoprotestantism is that?

None.  It was a response to what he replied to in an incorrect fashion.

My comment was in response to the one before yours, sorry
No worries. :)
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: DeniseDenise on August 01, 2013, 10:05:41 PM
I wish them all the best and hope they find all happiness in life.

-c
I hope they find Jesus.

Is Jesus lost? ???

Almost funny.  Keep working on it.

You don't really hope they "find Jesus." Your posts following that one made it clear that you see them with nothing but contempt and judgement. You were using that lovely language of Christian-ese to make a judgement on them. You have no clue as to whether or not they are Christian. You assume they are not. It is quite possible they are closer to living a Christian life than you are. If you want to judge/condemn them, at least have the integrity not to involve Christ in it. Because you are a sinner right along with them. And you are in need of "finding Jesus" just as much as they are.

+1
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: DeniseDenise on August 01, 2013, 10:16:56 PM
Quinault has given the longer expanded sentiment behind Matthew 7:5

Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.


I think we -all- need to be careful about pointing out the sins of others, even ones we believe are such obvious sins.  This is my personal opinion, but to me, the louder and harder that we continue to do such things, the smaller and smaller the beam in our own eye seems to us.

Our righteous indignation over the sins of others, makes us start ignoring our own, because 'this can't possibly be as bad as THAT', and we stop trying to repent.


Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Shanghaiski on August 01, 2013, 10:22:24 PM
Quinault has given the longer expanded sentiment behind Matthew 7:5

Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.


I think we -all- need to be careful about pointing out the sins of others, even ones we believe are such obvious sins.  This is my personal opinion, but to me, the louder and harder that we continue to do such things, the smaller and smaller the beam in our own eye seems to us.

Our righteous indignation over the sins of others, makes us start ignoring our own, because 'this can't possibly be as bad as THAT', and we stop trying to repent.




Would you say the same thing if someone condemned a sin?
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: DeniseDenise on August 01, 2013, 10:29:02 PM
Quinault has given the longer expanded sentiment behind Matthew 7:5

Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.


I think we -all- need to be careful about pointing out the sins of others, even ones we believe are such obvious sins.  This is my personal opinion, but to me, the louder and harder that we continue to do such things, the smaller and smaller the beam in our own eye seems to us.

Our righteous indignation over the sins of others, makes us start ignoring our own, because 'this can't possibly be as bad as THAT', and we stop trying to repent.




Would you say the same thing if someone condemned a sin?

if we were discussing it without pictures and because someone ASKED the question of 'is this a sin?' 

if that were the scenario here, then no, I would not. 

Discussing that lying is a sin....is a drastically different prospect than showing a picture of someone, saying they are a liar and then trying to re-abstract the discussion away from that person.

By the very nature of having -shown- people precisely WHO you mean when you continue to discuss how much lying is a dreadful sin, you are judging the person, not the sin.

And since I myself am a sinner, I have absolutely no right to go around calling other humans sinners.  My particular sins are between me, God and my Priest, just as yours are....

I do not feel that this changes just because the other party is not Orthodox.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Papist on August 01, 2013, 10:42:45 PM
Gender is a grammatical construct.
But sex is not. :)
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Kerdy on August 01, 2013, 11:43:45 PM
I wish them all the best and hope they find all happiness in life.

-c
I hope they find Jesus.

Is Jesus lost? ???

Almost funny.  Keep working on it.

You don't really hope they "find Jesus." Your posts following that one made it clear that you see them with nothing but contempt and judgement. You were using that lovely language of Christian-ese to make a judgement on them. You have no clue as to whether or not they are Christian. You assume they are not. It is quite possible they are closer to living a Christian life than you are. If you want to judge/condemn them, at least have the integrity not to involve Christ in it. Because you are a sinner right along with them. And you are in need of "finding Jesus" just as much as they are.

+1
You plus one a hypocritical statement?
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Quinault on August 02, 2013, 12:09:54 AM
There is nothing inconsistent with an Orthodox view of salvation in my post. You are Orthodox, right? No one is "saved." We are being saved. You know what theosis is, right? You have heard of the Jesus prayer?
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Kerdy on August 02, 2013, 12:33:29 AM
There is nothing inconsistent with an Orthodox view of salvation in my post. You are Orthodox, right? No one is "saved." We are being saved. You know what theosis is, right? You have heard of the Jesus prayer?
Are you sure you are in the right thread talking to the right person, because you are in your own conversation.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Shiny on August 02, 2013, 12:36:32 AM
Cute cartoon, but it doesn't really apply to the thread.  Well, unless you want to make a point of how hypocritical the proponents to normalize homosexuality are.
And this is where we agree, Kerdy. I don't like to tolerate another's culture either. I don't think the gays should be asking the heteros to be more tolerant of them, there needs to be real struggle to get over that inequality and to be emancipated from it.

If you have great argument on how the homosexuals are destroying the World, then you should have a good reason to risk your life in protecting it, no?

I'd rather be slaughtered for my level of "intolerance" than wind up in a situation where I have to be tolerant of cultures I despise.

That's just me though.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Shiny on August 02, 2013, 12:36:32 AM
I wish them all the best and hope they find all happiness in life.

-c
I hope they find Jesus.

Is Jesus lost? ???

Almost funny.  Keep working on it.

You don't really hope they "find Jesus." Your posts following that one made it clear that you see them with nothing but contempt and judgement. You were using that lovely language of Christian-ese to make a judgement on them. You have no clue as to whether or not they are Christian. You assume they are not. It is quite possible they are closer to living a Christian life than you are. If you want to judge/condemn them, at least have the integrity not to involve Christ in it. Because you are a sinner right along with them. And you are in need of "finding Jesus" just as much as they are.

I don't know Quinault. I'm tired of hearing the above from Christians. Did God not judge/condemn the sodomites and whatever perversions man did in the OT? Are we not called to be like God?

To be frank I don't see how Christians can be accepting "tolerating" of this.

If you care about what I think, I think the transgender couple never got their sexual needs met as children. They are confused teens. What did Freud say about polymorphous perversion? And I thought castration was sort of repressed.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Shiny on August 02, 2013, 12:36:32 AM
Our righteous indignation over the sins of others, makes us start ignoring our own, because 'this can't possibly be as bad as THAT', and we stop trying to repent.
Err what? I can recognize the sins of others just as well as my own. But people on here only recognize certain sins and ignore others.

I'd rather point out stuff that actually causes sin, which is worse than the sin itself IMO. You'd think if corporate greed causes a multitude of sins, which it does, we'd try to put an end to that. With Global Capitalism further gentrifying poor areas, you will have to sin in order to survive. I'd rather tackle the former so the later doesn't happen.

Ain't nobody rationalizing their sins in comparison to someone else, so that can't be a criticism against Kerdy.

Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Shiny on August 02, 2013, 12:36:32 AM
Discussing that lying is a sin....is a drastically different prospect than showing a picture of someone, saying they are a liar and then trying to re-abstract the discussion away from that person.

By the very nature of having -shown- people precisely WHO you mean when you continue to discuss how much lying is a dreadful sin, you are judging the person, not the sin.

And since I myself am a sinner, I have absolutely no right to go around calling other humans sinners.  My particular sins are between me, God and my Priest, just as yours are....

I do not feel that this changes just because the other party is not Orthodox.
Pure ideology.

You think you can be insular from the rest of the population by only confessing your own sins to God and your priest, but you are very much involving the other "sinners" and have already judged them. You can't exist in this realm of only believing your sins are your own and not including everyone else in that. You've already made a judgement on them with "no" judgement at all.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Shiny on August 02, 2013, 12:36:32 AM
Gender is a grammatical construct.
But sex is not. :)
If anything, the woman is a semicolon in our society.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Kerdy on August 02, 2013, 12:37:57 AM
Cute cartoon, but it doesn't really apply to the thread.  Well, unless you want to make a point of how hypocritical the proponents to normalize homosexuality are.
And this is where we agree, Kerdy. I don't like to tolerate another's culture either. I don't think the gays should be asking the heteros to be more tolerant of them, there needs to be real struggle to get over that inequality and to be emancipated from it.

If you have great argument on how the homosexuals are destroying the World, then you should have a good reason to risk your life in protecting it, no?

I'd rather be slaughtered for my level of "intolerance" than wind up in a situation where I have to be tolerant of cultures I despise.

That's just me though.
What you just posted also has nothing to do with anything I stated.  Over react much?
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Kerdy on August 02, 2013, 12:41:24 AM
Here is how this thread fell apart within the last few posts.

"Homosexual acts is normal and it's normal to destroy your body to be someone else."

"I disagree."

"Why do you hate and want to kill babies?"

"What???"

"Hater!"
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Quinault on August 02, 2013, 12:43:00 AM
I wish them all the best and hope they find all happiness in life.

-c
I hope they find Jesus.

Is Jesus lost? ???

Almost funny.  Keep working on it.

You don't really hope they "find Jesus." Your posts following that one made it clear that you see them with nothing but contempt and judgement. You were using that lovely language of Christian-ese to make a judgement on them. You have no clue as to whether or not they are Christian. You assume they are not. It is quite possible they are closer to living a Christian life than you are. If you want to judge/condemn them, at least have the integrity not to involve Christ in it. Because you are a sinner right along with them. And you are in need of "finding Jesus" just as much as they are.

I don't know Quinault. I'm tired of hearing the above from Christians. Did God not judge/condemn the sodomites and whatever perversions man did in the OT? Are we not called to be like God?

To be frank I don't see how Christians can be accepting "tolerating" of this.

If you care about what I think, I think the transgender couple never got their sexual needs met as children. They are confused teens. What did Freud say about polymorphous perversion? And I thought castration was sort of repressed.

Not exactly my point. My point is that saying you hope someone "finds Jesus," then going on to rake them over the coals is simply awful. I don't care if people judge necessarily. That is somewhat normal/natural. Just don't wrap it up in Christian-ese.

"That situation really grieves my spirit"

"You really need to pray for...because I heard that...."

"Oh my! I hope they can find Jesus..."
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Quinault on August 02, 2013, 12:52:32 AM
Does that statement "I hope they find Jesus" make any sense to anyone not familiar with both the English language and Protestantism? Because in the context of his other posts in this thread, it looks like an accusation rather than a genuine hope/prayer to me, and I speak English and grew up Protestant.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Arachne on August 02, 2013, 04:29:34 AM
If you care about what I think, I think the transgender couple never got their sexual needs met as children.

 :o Come again? :o
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: TheTrisagion on August 02, 2013, 08:04:56 AM
If you care about what I think, I think the transgender couple never got their sexual needs met as children.

 :o Come again? :o
Yes, I did a double take on that as well.  I certainly hope it does not mean what it sounds like it means.  :o
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: J Michael on August 02, 2013, 09:09:37 AM
If you care about what I think, I think the transgender couple never got their sexual needs met as children.

 :o Come again? :o
Yes, I did a double take on that as well.  I certainly hope it does not mean what it sounds like it means.  :o

Ditto that ^!  It really begs the question, "Just what sexual needs do children have and how are they met and by whom"?  Maybe Achronos was just a little hot under the collar or something and got carried away with his own rhetoric.  I hope. 
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Aedificare on August 02, 2013, 09:26:27 AM
"Sexual needs of Children" might mean sex education. That's the only thing I could think of that wasn't inappropriate.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Quinault on August 02, 2013, 09:31:11 AM
My guess was proper role models of both sexes.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: J Michael on August 02, 2013, 09:39:18 AM
My guess was proper role models of both sexes.

Maybe Achronos could make another cameo appearance and clear up the matter for everyone.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: vamrat on August 02, 2013, 09:44:47 AM
It's pretty obvious actually.  Especially since we have already devoted 50 some odd pages on this board to masturbation.  Let's move along.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Daedelus1138 on August 02, 2013, 09:48:20 AM
Does that statement "I hope they find Jesus" make any sense to anyone not familiar with both the English language and Protestantism? Because in the context of his other posts in this thread, it looks like an accusation rather than a genuine hope/prayer to me, and I speak English and grew up Protestant.

  I agree completely.  It's evangelical Protestant-speak for "I don't approve of you".
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Shiny on August 03, 2013, 02:40:21 AM
If you care about what I think, I think the transgender couple never got their sexual needs met as children.

 :o Come again? :o
What's the problem? Our development stages as children have different sexual needs like breast feeding and potty training. Maybe they couldn't satisfy their bisexual/transexual urges as a child, maybe they got confused with parental abuses added to it.

Whatever it is something went off course in their childhood to where the boy wanted to fulfill his unconscious desire to mutilate his penis, maybe in order not to be in a position of dominance, and the girl got some real penis envy by first seeing a boy naked. My own first encounter with a naked girl was when I was 6 where for some reason we undressed ourselves and were curious over our genital parts. All I saw was a slit and never understood its function. We didn't touch each other but all I can remember is that we stared at each other for a long time. She spent the night at my house, and it wasn't uncommon to spend the night at girls' houses at my age. I had a very normal development as a kid, nothing unusual or traumatizing. But Freud totally saw this as normal.

Really the "girl" who mutilated herself must be in such extreme denial over the genital fact that "she" has a penis. "She" is still very much a man with the presence of the penis, and no amount of surgery is going to remove that.

Intersex is more interesting to me, with the development of breasts, some genital ambiguity with the micropenis, etc.
Title: Re: Transgender teen couple?
Post by: Shiny on August 03, 2013, 02:40:21 AM
If you care about what I think, I think the transgender couple never got their sexual needs met as children.

 :o Come again? :o
Yes, I did a double take on that as well.  I certainly hope it does not mean what it sounds like it means.  :o
It's the opposite of what you think. I unfortunately had the "privilege" of dating a woman who had many mental illnesses because her "father" had sex with her at a young age on multiple occasions. Stuff like that really screws you up, and she had more than a couple of screws up in her head loose let me tell you.

You couldn't even have sexual intercourse with her without thinking you were violating her in some way. She really loathed sex and even the mere act of trying to turn her on was bad. Suffice to say the dating didn't last long.

A real basket case. Good for all of us her father is rotting in jail. He made a real wreck of that familiy and truly broke/ruin whatever chance they have at having "normal" relationships.

Last I heard she was dating a dude her father's age. So she must still have a desire to sleep with daddy.