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General Forums => Christian News => Topic started by: Gunnarr on April 05, 2013, 06:48:05 PM

Title: Czech Orthodox Church primate suspected of breaching oath of celibacy/sex with
Post by: Gunnarr on April 05, 2013, 06:48:05 PM
http://praguemonitor.com/2013/04/05/czech-orthodox-church-primate-suspected-breaching-oath (http://praguemonitor.com/2013/04/05/czech-orthodox-church-primate-suspected-breaching-oath)

brought up by Nova TV at these links (but the pages "cannot be found" for me anymore... maybe they are taking them down? at least i can still see the title... can anyone else get the pages to work?

Title: scandals in the Orthodox Church: Archbishop Christopher is said to have several mistresses, and even children! http://cinema.nova.cz/article/zpravy/domaci/skandal-v-pravoslavne-cirkvi-arcibiskup-krystof-ma-pry-nekolik-milenek-a-dokonce-i-deti.html (http://cinema.nova.cz/article/zpravy/domaci/skandal-v-pravoslavne-cirkvi-arcibiskup-krystof-ma-pry-nekolik-milenek-a-dokonce-i-deti.html)

Title: The case of Archbishop Christopher : His lover revealed details of their life! http://cinema.nova.cz/article/zpravy/domaci/kauza-arcibiskupa-krystofa-jeho-milenka-prozradila-podrobnosti-o-jejich-zivote.html (http://cinema.nova.cz/article/zpravy/domaci/kauza-arcibiskupa-krystofa-jeho-milenka-prozradila-podrobnosti-o-jejich-zivote.html)

Title: Monk and his mistress? Ecclesiastical scandal seems to collide ligament Metropolitan Krystof http://cinema.nova.cz/article/zpravy/domaci/srazi-milenky-vaz-metropolitovi-krystofovi-pokud-se-neobhaji-tak-ano.html (http://cinema.nova.cz/article/zpravy/domaci/srazi-milenky-vaz-metropolitovi-krystofovi-pokud-se-neobhaji-tak-ano.html)


The accusations are against Metropolitan Krystof, Primate of the Orthodox Church of the Czech Lands and Slovakia

(http://oca.org/Images/News/2011/2011-0228-krystof.jpg)
Title: Re: Czech Orthodox Church primate suspected of breaching oath of celibacy/sex with
Post by: mike on April 05, 2013, 07:18:39 PM
can anyone else get the pages to work?

Works for me.

Quote
The accusations are against Metropolitan Krystof, Primate of the Orthodox Church of the Czech Lands and Slovakia

I can't say I had never heard some gossips about Metropolitan Christopher's alleged daughters. I thought, however he conceived them prior to his conversion (or monastic tonsure).
Title: Re: Czech Orthodox Church primate suspected of breaching oath of celibacy/sex with
Post by: LizaSymonenko on April 05, 2013, 07:31:52 PM
Only the first link works.  The bottom three state "Page Not Found", for me.


That's a shame.

However, it might all be false accusations, as M. Krystof states.  Only he and God knows.

I hate seeing such news connected with Orthodoxy.  :(
Title: Re: Czech Orthodox Church primate suspected of breaching oath of celibacy/sex with
Post by: mike on April 05, 2013, 07:47:01 PM
From what I understood here (http://www.pravoslavnacirkev.info/aktuality/zpravodajstvi/602-oficialni-tiskove-prohlaseni-pravoslavne-cirkve-v-ceskych-zemich-k-falesnym-obvinenim-a-pomlouvacne-kampanii) Metropolitan Christopher was required to prove his innocence via lawsuit. On the other hand it does not say anything about his temporary exemption from the post.

(nice website BTW)
Title: Re: Czech Orthodox Church primate suspected of breaching oath of celibacy/sex with
Post by: ialmisry on April 05, 2013, 07:50:49 PM
From what I understood here (http://www.pravoslavnacirkev.info/aktuality/zpravodajstvi/602-oficialni-tiskove-prohlaseni-pravoslavne-cirkve-v-ceskych-zemich-k-falesnym-obvinenim-a-pomlouvacne-kampanii) Metropolitan Christopher was required to prove his innocence via lawsuit. On the other hand it does not say anything about his temporary exemption from the post.
What is the lawsuit over?
Title: Re: Czech Orthodox Church primate suspected of breaching oath of celibacy/sex with
Post by: mike on April 05, 2013, 07:52:04 PM
From what I understood here (http://www.pravoslavnacirkev.info/aktuality/zpravodajstvi/602-oficialni-tiskove-prohlaseni-pravoslavne-cirkve-v-ceskych-zemich-k-falesnym-obvinenim-a-pomlouvacne-kampanii) Metropolitan Christopher was required to prove his innocence via lawsuit. On the other hand it does not say anything about his temporary exemption from the post.
What is the lawsuit over?

False (as he claims and the Synod supports him) accusations charged against him / defamation / something like that.
Title: Re: Czech Orthodox Church primate suspected of breaching oath of celibacy/sex with
Post by: Putnik Namernik on April 05, 2013, 08:01:47 PM
He said the accusation may be linked to the ongoing property settlement between the Czech state and churches, within which 1.14 billion crowns is to go to the Orthodox Church.

"Some would like the money to be exclusively spent on humanitarian projects for seniors, ill people and children. Others, however, say the money should be deposited in funds to draw more money for priests' [pay]," Krystof told TV Nova Thursday.

Source: http://praguemonitor.com/2013/04/05/czech-orthodox-church-primate-suspected-breaching-oath


Perhaps the understanding of who is behind the story lies in the above mentioned info regardless if Metropolitan Christopher was guilty or not.  The question is always: who profits from this situation?
Title: Re: Czech Orthodox Church primate suspected of breaching oath of celibacy/sex with
Post by: Shanghaiski on April 05, 2013, 10:09:33 PM
He said the accusation may be linked to the ongoing property settlement between the Czech state and churches, within which 1.14 billion crowns is to go to the Orthodox Church.

"Some would like the money to be exclusively spent on humanitarian projects for seniors, ill people and children. Others, however, say the money should be deposited in funds to draw more money for priests' [pay]," Krystof told TV Nova Thursday.

Source: http://praguemonitor.com/2013/04/05/czech-orthodox-church-primate-suspected-breaching-oath


Perhaps the understanding of who is behind the story lies in the above mentioned info regardless if Metropolitan Christopher was guilty or not.  The question is always: who profits from this situation?


Ah, the Poirot question. "Who benefits?"
Title: Re: Czech Orthodox Church primate suspected of breaching oath of celibacy/sex with
Post by: mike on April 06, 2013, 10:34:32 AM
Do we really need to seek some conspiracy theories behind that?
Title: Re: Czech Orthodox Church primate suspected of breaching oath of celibacy/sex with
Post by: Putnik Namernik on April 06, 2013, 11:12:03 AM
Do we really need to seek some conspiracy theories behind that?

No need for conspiracy...but for me timing is always something I look at.
Title: Re: Czech Orthodox Church primate suspected of breaching oath of celibacy/sex with
Post by: LenInSebastopol on April 06, 2013, 03:20:54 PM
As an ignorant American catechumen, knowing little and next to nothing, all things from that region are truth and lies, sometimes even mixed with fiction.
A DNA test of those children born after tonsure could help sort out the differences, especially if done in a "neutral" country. I mean "follow the money" is not new on Earth.
Lord, have mercy.
Title: Re: Czech Orthodox Church primate suspected of breaching oath of celibacy/sex with
Post by: mike on April 09, 2013, 01:03:16 PM
I can't say I had never heard some gossips about Metropolitan Christopher's alleged daughters. I thought, however he conceived them prior to his conversion (or monastic tonsure).

It seems those daughters I had heard about were conceived prior his tonsure and it's not a secret. This fuss is about some other alleged children of him.
Title: Re: Czech Orthodox Church primate suspected of breaching oath of celibacy/sex with
Post by: arimethea on April 09, 2013, 01:46:20 PM
I can't say I had never heard some gossips about Metropolitan Christopher's alleged daughters. I thought, however he conceived them prior to his conversion (or monastic tonsure).

It seems those daughters I had heard about were conceived prior his tonsure and it's not a secret. This fuss is about some other alleged children of him.

Was he married? He should not have been having sex before his tonsure unless he was married. I do not see anything in bio about him being married, so how does he have children, and was allowed to be ordained?
Title: Re: Czech Orthodox Church primate suspected of breaching oath of celibacy/sex with
Post by: mike on April 09, 2013, 02:10:33 PM
Was he married? He should not have been having sex before his tonsure unless he was married. I do not see anything in bio about him being married, so how does he have children, and was allowed to be ordained?

No idea. Also couldn't find anything. However you do know he was tonsured 11 years after his ordination, don't you?
Title: Re: Czech Orthodox Church primate suspected of breaching oath of celibacy/sex with
Post by: podkarpatska on April 09, 2013, 02:22:14 PM
From a friend with contacts in Slovakia, the Metropolitan was married and had children prior to being divorced. This was not a secret. I don't know if the marriage was civil only. After the civil divorce he entered seminary as far as I know. If I hear more I will post.
Title: Re: Czech Orthodox Church primate suspected of breaching oath of celibacy/sex with
Post by: mike on April 09, 2013, 02:28:49 PM
From a friend with contacts in Slovakia, the Metropolitan was married and had children prior to being divorced. This was not a secret. I don't know if the marriage was civil only. After the civil divorce he entered seminary as far as I know. If I hear more I will post.

He was ordained when he was 21. If that what you say is true - it would make quite an achievement.
Title: Re: Czech Orthodox Church primate suspected of breaching oath of celibacy/sex with
Post by: Maria on April 09, 2013, 03:07:27 PM
Interesting. A thread based primarily on hearsay and gossip. And it is Christian News?

Do I hear the pot calling the kettle black?
Title: Re: Czech Orthodox Church primate suspected of breaching oath of celibacy/sex with
Post by: mike on April 09, 2013, 04:43:10 PM
Do I hear the pot calling the kettle black?

There are several newsreports here. If you can't read with understanding that's your problem.
Title: Re: Czech Orthodox Church primate suspected of breaching oath of celibacy/sex with
Post by: podkarpatska on April 09, 2013, 04:51:31 PM
Interesting. A thread based primarily on hearsay and gossip. And it is Christian News?

Do I hear the pot calling the kettle black?

Let's see. "Christian News" is easy to dissect. It would seem to require a thread to deal with "news" relating to Christian matters.

The thread in question linked to an online version of a news report disseminated through CTK, the Czech Press Agency, an entity akin to the Associated Press or Reuters.(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%8CTK)  That sounds like 'news' by even a tight definition.

The report references accusations made against an Orthodox hierarch. That meets the Christian part of the requirement.

Gossip or hearsay would be an inappropriate source for sure but the story was confirmed by a church spokesperson. " Prague, April 4 (CTK) - The Czech Orthodox Church Primate Krystof has to refute by mid-May the suspicion that he has breached his oath as a monk and had sex with women, Jaroslav Suvarsky, head of the Orthodox Church's eparchial council, told CTK Thursday." [/b]
http://praguemonitor.com/2013/04/05/czech-orthodox-church-primate-suspected-breaching-oath

For the record my source is an Archon and benefactor of the Presov Diocese of the Czech and Slovak Orthodox Church. The longtime coordinator of gathering and delivering relief and medical supplies to the Presov Diocese' s children's home in Medzilaborce, Slovakia, he is well known to the Church's bishops there. I sent him the article link and he told me that it was well known that the Bishop had children prior to ordination and he knew nothing about the current controversy. He speculated about the story itself, but that speculation was idle hearsay and opinion and had I posted that part of our conversation - which I did not do - that would have been improper.

Title: Re: Czech Orthodox Church primate suspected of breaching oath of celibacy/sex with
Post by: mike on April 24, 2013, 10:03:28 AM
Apparently the main accuser confessed the allegations were not true.
Title: Re: Czech Orthodox Church primate suspected of breaching oath of celibacy/sex with
Post by: LizaSymonenko on April 24, 2013, 10:23:28 AM

Excellent!!!!
Title: Re: Czech Orthodox Church primate suspected of breaching oath of celibacy/sex with
Post by: arimethea on April 24, 2013, 12:29:31 PM
Apparently the main accuser confessed the allegations were not true.

Do you have a source for this info?
Title: Re: Czech Orthodox Church primate suspected of breaching oath of celibacy/sex with
Post by: mike on April 24, 2013, 01:16:31 PM
Apparently the main accuser confessed the allegations were not true.

Do you have a source for this info?

here: http://www.religion.in.ua/news/foreign_news/21716-posle-otstavki-mitropolita-cheshskix-zemel-i-slovakii-grazhdanka-obvinivshaya-ego-v-narushenii-monasheskix-obetov-priznalas-chto-solgala.html

edit:

eng: http://www.christofor.cz/vyjadreni-k-omluve/english
Title: Re: Czech Orthodox Church primate suspected of breaching oath of celibacy/sex with
Post by: arimethea on April 24, 2013, 02:08:55 PM

eng: http://www.christofor.cz/vyjadreni-k-omluve/english

I liked how it ends:

Quote
there is no reason for divorce, the spouses as good Christians will reconcile each other, and both baby girls can happily grow in a full family with their mother and father.

A good Christian attitude.
Title: Re: Czech Orthodox Church primate suspected of breaching oath of celibacy/sex with
Post by: mike on April 24, 2013, 02:11:05 PM

eng: http://www.christofor.cz/vyjadreni-k-omluve/english

I liked how it ends:

Quote
there is no reason for divorce, the spouses as good Christians will reconcile each other, and both baby girls can happily grow in a full family with their mother and father.

A good Christian attitude.

Yeah. I wonder how that priest keeps serving after all that. I also wonder what was his role in the plot.

It doesn't solve other accusations, though.
Title: Re: Czech Orthodox Church primate suspected of breaching oath of celibacy/sex with
Post by: ilyazhito on April 24, 2013, 05:16:40 PM
He was ordained when he was 21. If that what you say is true - it would make quite an achievement.
This is a blatant violation of the canons. A deacon ought to be no younger than 25 years of age, and priests ought to be no younger than 30. This is ridiculous, if it is the case. AFAIK, a divorced man would not be allowed to be ordained, unless he became a monk. This shows how little Orthodox clergy care for the canons nowadays.
Title: Re: Czech Orthodox Church primate suspected of breaching oath of celibacy/sex with
Post by: mike on April 24, 2013, 05:23:56 PM
He was ordained when he was 21. If that what you say is true - it would make quite an achievement.
This is a blatant violation of the canons. A deacon ought to be no younger than 25 years of age, and priests ought to be no younger than 30. This is ridiculous, if it is the case. AFAIK, a divorced man would not be allowed to be ordained, unless he became a monk. This shows how little Orthodox clergy care for the canons nowadays.

Find me any jurisdiction that keeps those age limits...
Title: Re: Czech Orthodox Church primate suspected of breaching oath of celibacy/sex with
Post by: davinpa on April 28, 2013, 01:33:05 AM
I remember that the Russian church once ordained a bishop at age 27
Title: Re: Czech Orthodox Church primate suspected of breaching oath of celibacy/sex with
Post by: ilyazhito on April 29, 2013, 04:53:22 PM
Are you talking about the Moscow Patriarchate, or ROCOR? Even though MP priests might be ordained young, most bishops are at least in their thirties when consecrated, if not older. In ROCOR, I have never seen any priests, at least in the Eastern American Diocese who could be younger than the age of 30. AFAIK, ROCOR follows the canons on the question of clerical ages.
Title: Re: Czech Orthodox Church primate suspected of breaching oath of celibacy/sex with
Post by: arimethea on April 30, 2013, 10:29:12 AM
Are you talking about the Moscow Patriarchate, or ROCOR? Even though MP priests might be ordained young, most bishops are at least in their thirties when consecrated, if not older. In ROCOR, I have never seen any priests, at least in the Eastern American Diocese who could be younger than the age of 30. AFAIK, ROCOR follows the canons on the question of clerical ages.

ROCOR is one of the worst in violating the canons of ordination. There are at least three priest in America who could not get ordained in any other jurisdiction because of canonical impediments, but where ordained under ROCOR. Be careful before you exalt your own jurisdiction as being pure, everyone has skeletons in their closets.
Title: Re: Czech Orthodox Church primate suspected of breaching oath of celibacy/sex with
Post by: IXOYE on April 30, 2013, 10:04:44 PM
Are you talking about the Moscow Patriarchate, or ROCOR? Even though MP priests might be ordained young, most bishops are at least in their thirties when consecrated, if not older. In ROCOR, I have never seen any priests, at least in the Eastern American Diocese who could be younger than the age of 30. AFAIK, ROCOR follows the canons on the question of clerical ages.

ROCOR is one of the worst in violating the canons of ordination. There are at least three priest in America who could not get ordained in any other jurisdiction because of canonical impediments, but where ordained under ROCOR. Be careful before you exalt your own jurisdiction as being pure, everyone has skeletons in their closets.

Where these serious impediments?
Title: Re: Czech Orthodox Church primate suspected of breaching oath of celibacy/sex with
Post by: arimethea on April 30, 2013, 10:28:19 PM
Are you talking about the Moscow Patriarchate, or ROCOR? Even though MP priests might be ordained young, most bishops are at least in their thirties when consecrated, if not older. In ROCOR, I have never seen any priests, at least in the Eastern American Diocese who could be younger than the age of 30. AFAIK, ROCOR follows the canons on the question of clerical ages.

ROCOR is one of the worst in violating the canons of ordination. There are at least three priest in America who could not get ordained in any other jurisdiction because of canonical impediments, but where ordained under ROCOR. Be careful before you exalt your own jurisdiction as being pure, everyone has skeletons in their closets.


Where these serious impediments?


Any impediment is serious. The three I am thinking of are all marriage issues (cases of divorce, and in one case multiple divorces).
Title: Re: Czech Orthodox Church primate suspected of breaching oath of celibacy/sex with
Post by: ilyazhito on May 01, 2013, 10:52:56 AM
 There may have been people who fell through the cracks in the days when ROCOR was on the margins of mainstream Orthodoxy, such as HOOM and Holy Transfiguration Monastery in Brookline. At least, none of the portraits of clergy in the Eastern American diocese look as though they were made of children or 19 year olds. If I knew that ordaining underage clergy was a systematic problem, I would not have written the post about ROCOR that I did. They may ordain teenage readers, but most priests in ROCOR appear to be in their 30s and 40s, if not older. Deacons are in the same age range as well. IMHO, Metropolitan Krystof should remain in office until an ecclesiastical trial deposes him. If the accusations are proven baseless, the accuser will be punished according to canon law. How many witnesses does the accuser have? At least two or three witnesses are required to provide an accusation against a bishop.
Title: Re: Czech Orthodox Church primate suspected of breaching oath of celibacy/sex with
Post by: mike on May 01, 2013, 11:51:37 AM
Metropolitan Christopher completely cleared of lies and slander
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OrthodoxNews/message/17833
Title: Re: Czech Orthodox Church primate suspected of breaching oath of celibacy/sex with
Post by: Orest on May 02, 2013, 08:31:41 AM
Metropolitan Christopher completely cleared of lies and slander
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OrthodoxNews/message/17833

Try this web site to see what his supporters say:
http://www.christofor.cz/home/english