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General Forums => Christian News => Topic started by: Orthodox11 on February 11, 2013, 07:15:06 AM

Title: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Orthodox11 on February 11, 2013, 07:15:06 AM
The Pope is to resign at the end of this month in an entirely unexpected development, the Vatican has confirmed. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-21411304

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/feb/11/pope-resigns-live-reaction

Quote
Dear Brothers,

I have convoked you to this Consistory, not only for the three canonisations, but also to communicate to you a decision of great importance for the life of the Church. After having repeatedly examined my conscience before God, I have come to the certainty that my strengths, due to an advanced age, are no longer suited to an adequate exercise of the Petrine ministry.

Editted for copyright policy - MK
Title: Pope Benedict XVI resigns
Post by: ag_vn on February 11, 2013, 07:17:28 AM
Quote
Pope Benedict XVI on Monday said he plans on resigning the papal office on February 28th. Below please find his announcement.

http://en.radiovaticana.va/articolo.asp?c=663815 (http://en.radiovaticana.va/articolo.asp?c=663815)
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns
Post by: Shiny on February 11, 2013, 07:25:00 AM
Wow this is incredible.

This is, what, the first time a Pope has resigned office in hundreds of years?! I can't imagine that he's just tired of the job, so it leads one to wonder what precipitated this. The Vatican is such a black box politically it's hard to say what's going on, but I fully expect some interesting leaks to be coming our way soon while people position themselves.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns
Post by: primuspilus on February 11, 2013, 08:02:01 AM
Just heard about it on the news...WOW!

So, Who do yall think will get the job?
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns
Post by: Shiny on February 11, 2013, 08:07:39 AM
Just heard about it on the news...WOW!

So, Who do yall think will get the job?
Peter the Roman
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns
Post by: ironchapman on February 11, 2013, 08:07:49 AM
Just heard about it on the news...WOW!

So, Who do yall think will get the job?

Cardinals Marc Oeullet of Quebec and Peter Turkson of Ghana are the most papabile. Both of them seem like good choices (although I'm not a Catholic). It would probably be Francis Arinze of Nigeria's to lose if he wasn't 80 years old.

Of course, there could be an upset with some other choice.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns
Post by: Basil 320 on February 11, 2013, 08:12:57 AM
Shocking, but what a mark of gracious humility, respecting the office and putting the good of the church ahead of ego.  "Many Years" to His Holiness.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns
Post by: Cyrillic on February 11, 2013, 08:22:59 AM
Benedict XVI was a great and erudite Pope. I think it's sad he resigns. I hope that an Eastern Catholic cardinal is elected Pope.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns
Post by: Romaios on February 11, 2013, 08:28:20 AM
Shocking, but what a mark of gracious humility, respecting the office and putting the good of the church ahead of ego.  "Many Years" to His Holiness.

This way, he will have more of a say in who is elected to succeed him. Those Cardinals who owe him allegiance won't be able to change sides as freely as they would after his death.

Indeed a selfless, but wise move.

  
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns
Post by: Αριστοκλής on February 11, 2013, 08:32:11 AM
Benedict XVI was a great and erudite Pope. I think it's sad he resigns. I hope that an Eastern Catholic cardinal is elected Pope.

Trying..........to........hold......my......breath...(gasp)...
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns
Post by: Cyrillic on February 11, 2013, 08:34:51 AM
Benedict XVI was a great and erudite Pope. I think it's sad he resigns. I hope that an Eastern Catholic cardinal is elected Pope.

Trying..........to........hold......my......breath...(gasp)...

Huh?
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns
Post by: Shiny on February 11, 2013, 08:37:31 AM
Just heard about it on the news...WOW!

So, Who do yall think will get the job?

Cardinals Marc Oeullet of Quebec and Peter Turkson of Ghana are the most papabile. Both of them seem like good choices (although I'm not a Catholic). It would probably be Francis Arinze of Nigeria's to lose if he wasn't 80 years old.

Of course, there could be an upset with some other choice.
"Peter Turkson is one of the few Catholics that haven't raped a young boy yet which may affect his chance to be the new Pope, Turkson is expected to rape a young boy soon as possible."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Turkson

Gotta love those Wiki "editors" (or rapists is fitting)
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns
Post by: Romaios on February 11, 2013, 08:44:43 AM
Benedict XVI was a great and erudite Pope. I think it's sad he resigns. I hope that an Eastern Catholic cardinal is elected Pope.

Trying..........to........hold......my......breath...(gasp)...

Huh?

To put it mildly, an Eastern Catholic Pope would probably have a negative impact on Orthodox-Catholic relations.

Most Orthodox would much prefer a "Latin" Pope over an Eastern Catholic one.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns
Post by: Cyrillic on February 11, 2013, 08:47:09 AM
To put it mildly, an Easter Catholic Pope would probably have a negative impact on Orthodox-Catholic relations.

Most Orthodox would much prefer a "Latin" Pope over an Eastern Catholic one.

So? A Byzantine Pope would be awesome. An Oriental one is fine too.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns
Post by: Romaios on February 11, 2013, 08:52:23 AM
So? A Byzantine Pope would be awesome. An Oriental one is fine too.

I was just trying to explain Ἀριστοκλέους reaction.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns
Post by: Cyrillic on February 11, 2013, 08:59:15 AM
So? A Byzantine Pope would be awesome. An Oriental one is fine too.

I was just trying to explain Ἀριστοκλέους reaction.

Ah yes. Perhaps he was trying to say "I wouldn't hold your breath". Nice genitive case, though.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns
Post by: Shiny on February 11, 2013, 09:02:35 AM

To put it mildly, an Eastern Catholic Pope would probably have a negative impact on Orthodox-Catholic relations.

Most Orthodox would much prefer a "Latin" Pope over an Eastern Catholic one.

You're right. We might have to start evangelizing if that were to happen.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns
Post by: Jetavan on February 11, 2013, 09:09:09 AM
Just heard about it on the news...WOW!

So, Who do yall think will get the job?
Matthew Fox
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns
Post by: Cantor Krishnich on February 11, 2013, 09:16:27 AM
Benedict XVI was a great and erudite Pope. I think it's sad he resigns. I hope that an Eastern Catholic cardinal is elected Pope.

I think that is impossible because the Latin Catholic Pope is required to be of the Roman-rite. The Eastern Catholics have their own patriarchs who are appointed by the Latin Pope and are subject to the Latin Pope. If it were possible, an Eastern Catholic pope would greatly strain Orthodox-Catholic relations.   
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns
Post by: jesusisthekey on February 11, 2013, 09:22:25 AM
Maybe saint Malachi guys proven prediction about all the popes are right. If so then this new pope is the final pope
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns
Post by: lubeltri on February 11, 2013, 09:32:10 AM
I'd be happy with an Eastern Pope as long as he isn't like Anthony Quinn in "Shoes of the Fisherman".

As for the rest of this....I am speechless and must take time to absorb this. I think I'll go to the noon Mass today.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns
Post by: primuspilus on February 11, 2013, 09:47:46 AM
Maybe the Pope is resigning so he can become Orthodox :)
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns
Post by: Irish Melkite on February 11, 2013, 09:54:02 AM
Benedict XVI was a great and erudite Pope. I think it's sad he resigns. I hope that an Eastern Catholic cardinal is elected Pope.

I think that is impossible because the Latin Catholic Pope is required to be of the Roman-rite. The Eastern Catholics have their own patriarchs who are appointed by the Latin Pope and are subject to the Latin Pope. If it were possible, an Eastern Catholic pope would greatly strain Orthodox-Catholic relations. 

The Pope is not required to be of the Latin Rite/Church (regretably) and EC/OC patriarchs are not appointed by the Latin Pope. Other than that, you've got it right.

I feel relatively confident in saying that the vast majority of knowledgeable and informed Eastern and Oriental Catholics would want no part of a pope elected from the Eastern or Oriental hierarchies.

Many years,

Neil
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns
Post by: ag_vn on February 11, 2013, 09:56:12 AM
To put it mildly, an Easter Catholic Pope would probably have a negative impact on Orthodox-Catholic relations.

Most Orthodox would much prefer a "Latin" Pope over an Eastern Catholic one.

So? A Byzantine Pope would be awesome. An Oriental one is fine too.

I think there are two Byzantine Catholic Cardinals and both would be over 80 years old in a future conclave after 28th February 2013. So there are three possibilities for an Eastern Catholic Pope - the Maronite Patriarch Bechara Boutros al Rahi and the Major Archbishops of the Syro-Malabar and the Syro-Malankara Catholic Churches :)
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns
Post by: Αριστοκλής on February 11, 2013, 09:59:19 AM
Maybe the Pope is resigning so he can become Orthodox :)

"It ain't over 'til it's over."
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns
Post by: biro on February 11, 2013, 10:10:40 AM
My hope is that, whomever is selected as the new Pope, he picks a good name like Michael, and not one that's hard to spell.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns
Post by: CoptoGeek on February 11, 2013, 10:40:12 AM
I'm very saddened to hear this.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns
Post by: Orthodox11 on February 11, 2013, 10:41:22 AM
My hope is that, whomever is selected as the new Pope, he picks a good name like Michael, and not one that's hard to spell.

There already is a Pope Michael:
(http://www.eyeofthetiber.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/POPE.jpg)
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns
Post by: Schultz on February 11, 2013, 11:09:31 AM
My hope is that, whomever is selected as the new Pope, he picks a good name like Michael, and not one that's hard to spell.

There already is a Pope Michael:
(http://www.eyeofthetiber.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/POPE.jpg)

There's apparently a documentary about Pope Michael (http://popemichaelfilm.com/) that's free for viewing.

I know what I'll be watching during my lunch hour.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns
Post by: orthonorm on February 11, 2013, 11:13:39 AM
My hope is that, whomever is selected as the new Pope, he picks a good name like Michael, and not one that's hard to spell.

There already is a Pope Michael:
(http://www.eyeofthetiber.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/POPE.jpg)

There's apparently a documentary about Pope Michael (http://popemichaelfilm.com/) that's free for viewing.

I know what I'll be watching during my lunch hour.

If you want to feel a little depressed . . .
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns
Post by: Schultz on February 11, 2013, 11:18:42 AM
My hope is that, whomever is selected as the new Pope, he picks a good name like Michael, and not one that's hard to spell.

There already is a Pope Michael:
(http://www.eyeofthetiber.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/POPE.jpg)

There's apparently a documentary about Pope Michael (http://popemichaelfilm.com/) that's free for viewing.

I know what I'll be watching during my lunch hour.

If you want to feel a little depressed . . .

Schadenfreude, mein Kumpel. :)

EDIT TO AVOID MODERATORIAL SANCTIONS: "[M]ein Kumpel" means "my pal" in German.  ;)
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns
Post by: J Michael on February 11, 2013, 11:22:30 AM
Maybe the Pope is resigning so he can become Orthodox :)

He already is orthodox, and doesn't need to resign to become so.  :) :)
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns
Post by: TheMathematician on February 11, 2013, 11:24:08 AM
the question now becomes, what is his title now, after he offically resigns?
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns
Post by: biro on February 11, 2013, 11:33:05 AM
the question now becomes, what is his title now, after he offically resigns?

At minimum, priest. He may still have the status of bishop, but I'm not sure.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns
Post by: TheMathematician on February 11, 2013, 11:35:49 AM
the question now becomes, what is his title now, after he offically resigns?

At minimum, priest. He may still have the status of bishop, but I'm not sure.
He would still have the dignity of a Bishop at the very least, partly because of the idea that ordination leaves a permant change of nature of a candidate, and that, for normal bishops, their title became "Emetrius Bishop of Buffalo", for example
Title: Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Marc1152 on February 11, 2013, 11:37:02 AM
No this is not a headline from the Onion. I would like to know more about the candidates and their view of relations with the Orthodox

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/12/world/europe/pope-benedict-xvi-says-he-will-retire.html?_r=0
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Severian on February 11, 2013, 11:47:27 AM
You just know that the Catholic-bashing Protestant fundies are going to have a field day with this!
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: TheMathematician on February 11, 2013, 11:49:46 AM
for once, the comments were goodm in marc article

"Though obviously the haters and bigots will never see it, this is a rare and refreshing display of humility.
It's not often someone has the integrity simply to walk away from such an honored position.
I'm hopeful that he'll begin publishing again. His scholarship in Theology was absolutely brilliant. "
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Αριστοκλής on February 11, 2013, 12:10:28 PM
the question now becomes, what is his title now, after he offically resigns?

The Pooped Pope?  :o
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Hiwot on February 11, 2013, 12:14:49 PM
Incredible, wielding power with humility very few examples in the books of  history. especially among those who hold the religious and political influence as one. that has been a recipe for the insanity of many.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns
Post by: Cyrillic on February 11, 2013, 12:18:21 PM
Benedict XVI was a great and erudite Pope. I think it's sad he resigns. I hope that an Eastern Catholic cardinal is elected Pope.

I think that is impossible because the Latin Catholic Pope is required to be of the Roman-rite.

There have been a lot of Greek/Syrian Popes.

The Eastern Catholics have their own patriarchs who are appointed by the Latin Pope

Well, no. They're elected by their own synods.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns
Post by: Hiwot on February 11, 2013, 12:18:34 PM
My hope is that, whomever is selected as the new Pope, he picks a good name like Michael, and not one that's hard to spell.

There already is a Pope Michael:
(http://www.eyeofthetiber.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/POPE.jpg)

There's apparently a documentary about Pope Michael (http://popemichaelfilm.com/) that's free for viewing.

I know what I'll be watching during my lunch hour.

If you want to feel a little depressed . . .

I should have listen to this warning, I could not go more than the first 15 minutes, but by then the damage was done. I would categorize  this under ' more than a little depressing' even without seeing the whole pitiful and disturbing story.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns
Post by: PeterTheAleut on February 11, 2013, 12:33:20 PM
Wow this is incredible.

This is, what, the first time a Pope has resigned office in hundreds of years?! I can't imagine that he's just tired of the job, so it leads one to wonder what precipitated this. The Vatican is such a black box politically it's hard to say what's going on, but I fully expect some interesting leaks to be coming our way soon while people position themselves.
There's no need to speculate about such things that are beyond our understanding.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: mike on February 11, 2013, 12:42:36 PM
Ive heard some rumours he suffers from severe cancer.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Αριστοκλής on February 11, 2013, 12:43:38 PM
Ive heard some rumours he suffers from severe cancer.

Lord have mercy.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns
Post by: J Michael on February 11, 2013, 12:44:45 PM
Wow this is incredible.

This is, what, the first time a Pope has resigned office in hundreds of years?! I can't imagine that he's just tired of the job, so it leads one to wonder what precipitated this. The Vatican is such a black box politically it's hard to say what's going on, but I fully expect some interesting leaks to be coming our way soon while people position themselves.
There's no need to speculate about such things that are beyond our understanding.
Such an admonition will do nothing do stop those who feel compelled, for whatever reason(s), to so so nonetheless.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: J Michael on February 11, 2013, 12:46:46 PM
Ive heard some rumours he suffers from severe cancer.

Ahh...the rumor mill keeps on grinding  ;). 

Until we actually *know* something....
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: podkarpatska on February 11, 2013, 01:08:13 PM
I think we should take him at his word. He has a great mind and a deeper understanding of, and appreciation for,
 eastern Christianity than any Pope in centuries. Since his papacy has been brief, history will likely regard him as a placeholder. Perhaps he wants to finish research and writing to put his mark on church history more as  as a thinker and important theologian? In any event, Many Years!
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns
Post by: Peter J on February 11, 2013, 01:23:10 PM
I think there are two Byzantine Catholic Cardinals and both would be over 80 years old in a future conclave after 28th February 2013. So there are three possibilities for an Eastern Catholic Pope - the Maronite Patriarch Bechara Boutros al Rahi and the Major Archbishops of the Syro-Malabar and the Syro-Malankara Catholic Churches :)

Well technically there are millions of possibilities for an Eastern Catholic pope.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns
Post by: Papist on February 11, 2013, 01:23:29 PM
Maybe the Pope is resigning so he can become Orthodox :)
He has been Orthodox all his life.  ;D
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns
Post by: Peter J on February 11, 2013, 01:25:19 PM
Just heard about it on the news...WOW!

So, Who do yall think will get the job?
Matthew Fox

Hey don't make me come over there!

But seriously, it's kind of funny that you say that; I made a quip on a recent thread about it being "the Age of Aquarius", which made me think of Fr. Mitch Pacwa's book "Catholics and the New Age"; then this morning I was watching Fr. Pacwa talk about the Pope's resignation; now your joke (I assume it was :D) about M. Fox.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns
Post by: Peter J on February 11, 2013, 01:26:43 PM
Maybe the Pope is resigning so he can become Orthodox :)

He already is orthodox, and doesn't need to resign to become so.  :) :)

Maybe the Pope is resigning so he can become Orthodox :)
He has been Orthodox all his life.  ;D

Is it funnier the second time?

;)
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Papist on February 11, 2013, 01:28:05 PM
I'm very disappointed to see His Holiness leave the office. He has been an excellent Pope who has taken the first step of directing the Church back in the right direction. I pray that his successor continues Pope Benedict's work.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns
Post by: orthonorm on February 11, 2013, 01:35:21 PM
My hope is that, whomever is selected as the new Pope, he picks a good name like Michael, and not one that's hard to spell.

There already is a Pope Michael:
(http://www.eyeofthetiber.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/POPE.jpg)

There's apparently a documentary about Pope Michael (http://popemichaelfilm.com/) that's free for viewing.

I know what I'll be watching during my lunch hour.

If you want to feel a little depressed . . .

I should have listen to this warning, I could not go more than the first 15 minutes, but by then the damage was done. I would categorize  this under ' more than a little depressing' even without seeing the whole pitiful and disturbing story.

A little depressed was for my dear Schultzl who is immune to Weltschmerz, if only from having drunk from its cup so deeply.

Most people would require an SSRI to make it through the documentary.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Alpo on February 11, 2013, 01:38:01 PM
I don't understand the idea of resigning from papacy. I know that according to RCC papacy is a office and not a sacrament but still there is something fishy in the idea.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Cyrillic on February 11, 2013, 01:44:19 PM
I don't understand the idea of resigning from papacy. I know that according to RCC papacy is a office and not a sacrament but still there is something fishy in the idea.

Same here. A Pope voluntarily abdicating doesn't have much of a precedent if you discount the Pope whom Dante saw in hell.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: biro on February 11, 2013, 01:47:27 PM
I don't understand the idea of resigning from papacy. I know that according to RCC papacy is a office and not a sacrament but still there is something fishy in the idea.

I think he said he's too sick to do the daily work. That's what I heard on the news.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: dzheremi on February 11, 2013, 01:47:54 PM
Wow. God be with him. I have always liked Pope Benedict. He is a serious, erudite man, and the humility he displays in resigning for the good of his church is refreshing and commendable. I hope that my Roman friends will be blessed with a Pope to continue in his line.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Papist on February 11, 2013, 01:48:33 PM
I don't understand the idea of resigning from papacy. I know that according to RCC papacy is a office and not a sacrament but still there is something fishy in the idea.

I think he said he's too sick to do the daily work. That's what I heard on the news.
Being an 85 year old Pope is not an easy task. With the increase in life expectancy, I suspect we will see more Popes who resign over the next 100 years.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: J Michael on February 11, 2013, 01:49:39 PM
I don't understand the idea of resigning from papacy. I know that according to RCC papacy is a office and not a sacrament but still there is something fishy in the idea.

Same here. A Pope voluntarily abdicating doesn't have much of a precedent if you discount the Pope whom Dante saw in hell.

Why does his resignation have to be "fishy" just because we do not yet understand or know all the details of it?  Why can we not take him at his word, that he is resigning because he is not physically up to the task and just leave it at that for now?

A Pope voluntarily abdicating will now have a better precedent after Feb. 28, 2013.  There is much we do not understand.  If we wait and keep our hearts open, perhaps with more time we will have greater understanding.

Many Years to His Holiness!!!
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Jetavan on February 11, 2013, 01:50:19 PM
I don't understand the idea of resigning from papacy. I know that according to RCC papacy is a office and not a sacrament but still there is something fishy in the idea.

Same here. A Pope voluntarily abdicating doesn't have much of a precedent if you discount the Pope whom Dante saw in hell.

"Historical evidence for papal resignations is limited (http://ncronline.org/news/vatican/can-pope-resign), especially if one eliminates resignations that may have been forced.

Clement I (92?-101): Epiphanius asserted that Clement gave up the pontificate to Linus for the sake of peace and became pope again after the death of Cletus.

Pontian (230-235): Allegedly resigned after being exiled to the mines of Sardinia during persecution of Maximinus Thrax.

Cyriacus: A fictional character created in the Middle Ages who supposedly received a heavenly command to resign.

Marcellinus (296-304): Abdicated or was deposed after complying with Diocletian's order to offer sacrifice to pagan gods.

Martin I (649-655): Exiled by Emperor Constans II to Crimea. Before he died, clergy of Rome elected a successor whom he appears to have approved.

Benedict V (964): After one month in office, he accepted deposition by Emperor Otto I.

Benedict IX (1032-45): Benedict resigned after selling the papacy to his godfather Gregory VI.

Gregory VI (1045-46): Deposed for simony by Henry III.

Celestine V (1294): A hermit, elected at age of 80 and overwhelmed by the office, resigned. He was imprisoned by his successor.

Gregory XII (1406-15): Resigned at request of Council of Constance to help end the Great Western Schism."



Perhaps Benedict XVI resigned to help end the Great Schism. Well, I can hope, can't I?
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: choy on February 11, 2013, 01:59:27 PM
So the ancient Pentarchy is getting a clean sweep.  New Coptic Pope of Alexandria, new Greek Patriarch of Antioch, now a new Pope of Rome by the Spring.  Anybody checked on Patriarch Bartholomew I if he's booking a Mediterranean Cruise in the near future?
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Cyrillic on February 11, 2013, 02:01:02 PM
So the ancient Pentarchy is getting a clean sweep.  New Coptic Pope of Alexandria, new Greek Patriarch of Antioch, now a new Pope of Rome by the Spring.  Anybody checked on Patriarch Bartholomew I if he's booking a Mediterranean Cruise in the near future?

You forgot the Armenian Patriarch of Jerusalem.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: orthonorm on February 11, 2013, 02:01:27 PM
So the ancient Pentarchy is getting a clean sweep.  New Coptic Pope of Alexandria, new Greek Patriarch of Antioch, now a new Pope of Rome by the Spring.  Anybody checked on Patriarch Bartholomew I if he's booking a Mediterranean Cruise in the near future?

There is a Rule of Five?
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Schultz on February 11, 2013, 02:20:00 PM
By the list recently posted, it appears that Benedict XVI probably has much in common with Celestine V.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: James2 on February 11, 2013, 02:20:40 PM
Surprising news, but it makes sense.  I never understood why cardinals aged 80 and over are barred from participating in a conclave, but that the Pope himself can stay in office past that age.  Not to mention that all other diocesan bishops are required to submit their resignations when they reach 75.  I hope that Pope Benedict has a long retirement which enables him to recover his health.  He is a good man and has been a good Pope.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Jetavan on February 11, 2013, 02:21:58 PM
In Light of the World (http://ncronline.org/news/vatican/can-pope-resign), Pope Benedict responded unambiguously to a question about whether a pope could resign: "Yes. If a Pope clearly realizes that he is no longer physically, psychologically, and spiritually capable of handling the duties of his office, then he has a right and, under some circumstances, also an obligation to resign."
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Romaios on February 11, 2013, 02:23:26 PM
I'm also sorry to see him go...  :(

From his days as a Cardinal:

Lamenting not having the spare time to visit Rome or read anything else but theology.
 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvaqlPRnf3Y)

The Church is not a democracy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyCw9M7mH24) - an interesting talk in Italian.

Vespers in the Chartreuse of Serra San Bruno (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzuERxCQ_M0) in October 2011 - a beautiful sermon from 56' onward. Speaks loads about where his heart is. Unfortunately, no English subtitles here either.


Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Alpo on February 11, 2013, 02:23:39 PM
I don't understand the idea of resigning from papacy. I know that according to RCC papacy is a office and not a sacrament but still there is something fishy in the idea.

I think he said he's too sick to do the daily work. That's what I heard on the news.
Being an 85 year old Pope is not an easy task. With the increase in life expectancy, I suspect we will see more Popes who resign over the next 100 years.

By "something fishy in the idea" I mean that idea of Benedict ceasing to be a pope. Retired bishops are still bishops but I assume retired pope would cease to be a pope.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Santagranddad on February 11, 2013, 02:36:01 PM
So the ancient Pentarchy is getting a clean sweep.  New Coptic Pope of Alexandria, new Greek Patriarch of Antioch, now a new Pope of Rome by the Spring.  Anybody checked on Patriarch Bartholomew I if he's booking a Mediterranean Cruise in the near future?

Why? Thinking he might have an accident during 'lifeboat drill'? Sadly too many people die during these drills. I don't recommend participating in a fire boat drill, whether or not you're a Patriarch.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: choy on February 11, 2013, 02:52:13 PM
So the ancient Pentarchy is getting a clean sweep.  New Coptic Pope of Alexandria, new Greek Patriarch of Antioch, now a new Pope of Rome by the Spring.  Anybody checked on Patriarch Bartholomew I if he's booking a Mediterranean Cruise in the near future?

You forgot the Armenian Patriarch of Jerusalem.

Many do.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: augustin717 on February 11, 2013, 02:52:29 PM
Last time I saw him-the pope I mean- he said he was planing on becoming an inquirer  at the closest OCA or Antiochian mission church as soon as he resigned, hoping to be Chrismated on Pascha. He said he couldn't bear celebrating it once more on the wrong calendar.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Peter J on February 11, 2013, 02:57:38 PM
I don't understand the idea of resigning from papacy. I know that according to RCC papacy is a office and not a sacrament but still there is something fishy in the idea.

I don't see why, other than the fact that it hasn't happened since before the Council of Florence.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Romaios on February 11, 2013, 02:57:53 PM
Last time I saw him-the pope I mean- he said he was planing on becoming an inquirer  at the closest OCA or Antiochian mission church as soon as he resigned, hoping to be Chrismated on Pascha. He said he couldn't bear celebrating it once more on the wrong calendar.

Pope Michael, you mean?  :laugh:
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Ioannis Climacus on February 11, 2013, 03:06:16 PM
By the list recently posted, it appears that Benedict XVI probably has much in common with Celestine V.
Scott Hahn posted this on Facebook earlier. Resignation seems to have been on his mind for sometime :

"Back on April 29, 2009, Pope Benedict XVI did something rather striking, but which went largely unnoticed.

He stopped off in Aquila, Italy, and visited the tomb of an obscure medieval Pope named St. Celestine V (1215-1296). After a brief prayer, he left his pallium, the symbol of his own episcopal authority as Bishop of Rome, on top of Celestine's tomb!

Fifteen months later, on July 4, 2010, Benedict went out of his way again, this time to visit and pray in the cathedral of Sulmona, near Rome, before the relics of this same saint, Celestine V.

Few people, however, noticed at the time.

Only now, we may be gaining a better understanding of what it meant. These actions were probably more than pious acts. More likely, they were profound and symbolic gestures of a very personal nature, which conveyed a message that a Pope can hardly deliver any other way.

In the year 1294, this man (Fr. Pietro Angelerio), known by all as a devout and holy priest, was elected Pope, somewhat against his will, shortly before his 80th birthday (Ratzinger was 78 when he was elected Pope in 2005). Just five months later, after issuing a formal decree allowing popes to resign (or abdicate, like other rulers), Pope Celestine V exercised that right. And now Pope Benedict XVI has chosen to follow in the footsteps of this venerable model.
"
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: choy on February 11, 2013, 03:07:28 PM
Last time I saw him-the pope I mean- he said he was planing on becoming an inquirer  at the closest OCA or Antiochian mission church as soon as he resigned, hoping to be Chrismated on Pascha. He said he couldn't bear celebrating it once more on the wrong calendar.

Will he be received via Vesting as a Patriarch?
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: choy on February 11, 2013, 03:09:28 PM
So the ancient Pentarchy is getting a clean sweep.  New Coptic Pope of Alexandria, new Greek Patriarch of Antioch, now a new Pope of Rome by the Spring.  Anybody checked on Patriarch Bartholomew I if he's booking a Mediterranean Cruise in the near future?

Why? Thinking he might have an accident during 'lifeboat drill'? Sadly too many people die during these drills. I don't recommend participating in a fire boat drill, whether or not you're a Patriarch.

No, going on a cruise is usually what people in retirement do.  Why does he have to have an accident?  Pope Benedict is just retiring.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: augustin717 on February 11, 2013, 03:09:43 PM
Quote
Will he be received via Vesting as a Patriarch?
Chrismation most likely and then on the fast track to becoming OCA's next metropolitan. By fall or so.
He'll be properly catechized by Fr. Hopko himself.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns
Post by: LizaSymonenko on February 11, 2013, 03:12:27 PM
My hope is that, whomever is selected as the new Pope, he picks a good name like Michael, and not one that's hard to spell.

There already is a Pope Michael:
(http://www.eyeofthetiber.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/POPE.jpg)

There's apparently a documentary about Pope Michael (http://popemichaelfilm.com/) that's free for viewing.

I know what I'll be watching during my lunch hour.

If you want to feel a little depressed . . .

I should have listen to this warning, I could not go more than the first 15 minutes, but by then the damage was done. I would categorize  this under ' more than a little depressing' even without seeing the whole pitiful and disturbing story.

A little depressed was for my dear Schultzl who is immune to Weltschmerz, if only from having drunk from its cup so deeply.

Most people would require an SSRI to make it through the documentary.

I actually found this very sad.

Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Dominika on February 11, 2013, 03:15:22 PM
First what I thought "He took them (Roman Catholics) just before the most important time of the year - the Great Lent and Holy Week!".

Then it reminded me of a movie realesed in 2011 "Habemus Papam". If somebody has seen it, he knows what I mean. Here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0GUU4JEXxA) you can watch a trailer
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Jetavan on February 11, 2013, 03:20:17 PM
Stephen Colbert
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: 88Devin12 on February 11, 2013, 03:20:26 PM
Quote
Will he be received via Vesting as a Patriarch?
Chrismation most likely and then on the fast track to becoming OCA's next metropolitan. By fall or so.

You... I like you...
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: choy on February 11, 2013, 03:24:23 PM
Stephen Colbert

I will return to the Catholic Church if that happens
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: J Michael on February 11, 2013, 03:30:12 PM
Stephen Colbert

I will return to the Catholic Church if that happens

Come on back, then, and welcome home!! ;D  For, you see, Stephen Colbert *has* happened.  No, he didn't and won't become Pope, but Jetavan didn't say anything about that that I saw.  ;D ;D
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns
Post by: Peter J on February 11, 2013, 03:33:17 PM
Benedict XVI was a great and erudite Pope. I think it's sad he resigns. I hope that an Eastern Catholic cardinal is elected Pope.

I think that is impossible because the Latin Catholic Pope is required to be of the Roman-rite.

There was a thread about the Pope being "omni-ritual" (although I don't know if I could find it now).

The Eastern Catholics have their own patriarchs who are appointed by the Latin Pope and are subject to the Latin Pope.

This is false (as others already pointed out). EC patriarchs aren't appointed by the pope. -edited
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Peter J on February 11, 2013, 03:39:20 PM
By the list recently posted, it appears that Benedict XVI probably has much in common with Celestine V.
Scott Hahn posted this on Facebook earlier. Resignation seems to have been on his mind for sometime :

"Back on April 29, 2009, Pope Benedict XVI did something rather striking, but which went largely unnoticed.

He stopped off in Aquila, Italy, and visited the tomb of an obscure medieval Pope named St. Celestine V (1215-1296). After a brief prayer, he left his pallium, the symbol of his own episcopal authority as Bishop of Rome, on top of Celestine's tomb!

Fifteen months later, on July 4, 2010, Benedict went out of his way again, this time to visit and pray in the cathedral of Sulmona, near Rome, before the relics of this same saint, Celestine V.
"

Interesting. They were talking a bit about Celestine on EWTN this morning, but they didn't mention those actions of Benedict's.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns
Post by: choy on February 11, 2013, 03:40:52 PM
This is false (as others already pointed out).

We should stop pretending that it is not true.  It is.  Why would the Patriarchs come to Rome when the Pope summons them to *his* synod?  It is a pipe dream to think that the EC Patriarchs are not subject to the Pope.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns
Post by: Peter J on February 11, 2013, 03:41:13 PM
Benedict XVI was a great and erudite Pope. I think it's sad he resigns. I hope that an Eastern Catholic cardinal is elected Pope.

Trying..........to........hold......my......breath...(gasp)...

Huh?

To put it mildly, an Eastern Catholic Pope would probably have a negative impact on Orthodox-Catholic relations.

Most Orthodox would much prefer a "Latin" Pope over an Eastern Catholic one.

I think the Orthodox are happy as long as they have something to complain about -- which they would, either way.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns
Post by: Shanghaiski on February 11, 2013, 03:52:18 PM
Benedict XVI was a great and erudite Pope. I think it's sad he resigns. I hope that an Eastern Catholic cardinal is elected Pope.

Trying..........to........hold......my......breath...(gasp)...

Huh?

To put it mildly, an Eastern Catholic Pope would probably have a negative impact on Orthodox-Catholic relations.

Most Orthodox would much prefer a "Latin" Pope over an Eastern Catholic one.

It seems too early for the fifth column to move.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns
Post by: Shanghaiski on February 11, 2013, 03:53:39 PM
To put it mildly, an Easter Catholic Pope would probably have a negative impact on Orthodox-Catholic relations.

Most Orthodox would much prefer a "Latin" Pope over an Eastern Catholic one.

So? A Byzantine Pope would be awesome. An Oriental one is fine too.

Assuming hell froze over to make it happen, he would most likely cease being Byzantine/Oriental upon election.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns
Post by: Romaios on February 11, 2013, 04:00:43 PM
I think the Orthodox are happy as long as they have something to complain about -- which they would, either way.

You, Sir, have a poor opinion of the Orthodox.

Needless to say, the ones you meet online are hardly representative for the bulk of Orthodoxy.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns
Post by: LizaSymonenko on February 11, 2013, 04:03:15 PM
I think the Orthodox are happy as long as they have something to complain about -- which they would, either way.

That's just downright rude, and wrong.

Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: ialmisry on February 11, 2013, 04:15:31 PM
Hopefully no scandal is involved (which seems to be the case) or severe illness.  Many years to him!

Btw, just for those who know Chicago and interested in trivia: Division street, if it could go straight through to Rome, would go right through the Cistine Chapel. Holy Trinity Cathedral (0CA) at Rome's longitude would be under the southern half of the dome of St. Peter's Basilica and over the catacombs where St. Peter lies.  Haddon street (the street running along north of the Cathedral) going straight would run under the Baldachin of St. Peter, under the balcony where they say "habenus papam," nick the Obelisk in the center of the Piazza S. Pietro, and go down Via della Conciliazione.
(http://www.rome.info/vatican/map/mapvatican.gif)
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: ialmisry on February 11, 2013, 04:22:15 PM
By the list recently posted, it appears that Benedict XVI probably has much in common with Celestine V.

That is what I thought when I first heard the news.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: WPM on February 11, 2013, 04:27:42 PM
That's what they said on FOX4 News this morning.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns
Post by: Schultz on February 11, 2013, 04:30:46 PM
This is false (as others already pointed out).

We should stop pretending that it is not true.  It is.  Why would the Patriarchs come to Rome when the Pope summons them to *his* synod?  It is a pipe dream to think that the EC Patriarchs are not subject to the Pope.

Subjecting oneself to authority and being appointed by an authority are two different things.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Marc1152 on February 11, 2013, 04:31:09 PM
Hopefully no scandal is involved (which seems to be the case) or severe illness.  Many years to him!

Btw, just for those who know Chicago and interested in trivia: Division street, if it could go straight through to Rome, would go right through the Cistine Chapel. Holy Trinity Cathedral (0CA) at Rome's longitude would be under the southern half of the dome of St. Peter's Basilica and over the catacombs where St. Peter lies.  Haddon street (the street running along north of the Cathedral) going straight would run under the Baldachin of St. Peter, under the balcony where they say "habenus papam," nick the Obelisk in the center of the Piazza S. Pietro, and go down Via della Conciliazione.
(http://www.rome.info/vatican/map/mapvatican.gif)

When I heard the news that the Pope was resigning I wondered how Isa would be able to make it into a Map.. :)
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: augustin717 on February 11, 2013, 04:32:11 PM
But wait 'cause he told me that as his last act as a pope he intends to proclaim the dogma of papal failibility for he said, it is clear, that charisma has. Long passed  down to the third Rome.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: ialmisry on February 11, 2013, 04:41:03 PM
But wait 'cause he told me that as his last act as a pope he intends to proclaim the dogma of papal failibility for he said, it is clear, that charisma has. Long passed  down to the third Rome.
Was that to answer how many divisions the pope has?
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Shiny on February 11, 2013, 04:49:41 PM
Hopefully no scandal is involved (which seems to be the case)
There's no need to speculate about such things that are beyond our understanding.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: LizaSymonenko on February 11, 2013, 05:09:25 PM

So, will the next Pope be named Peter?    :-\
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: choy on February 11, 2013, 05:11:42 PM

So, will the next Pope be named Peter?    :-\

Or Simon.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: choy on February 11, 2013, 05:20:27 PM
Join the movement https://www.facebook.com/StephenColbertForPope  ;D
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Shiny on February 11, 2013, 05:40:41 PM

So, will the next Pope be named Peter?    :-\
I was hoping someone knew what I was talking about.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: LizaSymonenko on February 11, 2013, 05:42:07 PM

I "got" it.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: That person on February 11, 2013, 05:43:25 PM
I'm a Peter Turkson man I think. Timothy Dolan is charismatic and American and all, but he kind of terrifies me.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: William on February 11, 2013, 05:44:24 PM
Dolan for pope. I'd love someone who won't pull any punches.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: mabsoota on February 11, 2013, 05:48:44 PM
so, i signed in to see if there was any reaction to today's shocking news, but i didn't expect 3 pages!
i see you are all as shocked as i was. i had to stop working for 10 minutes.

may God have mercy.
now is the time to pray very much for healing and restoration (in the orthodox direction, in my opinion) in the roman catholic church and the other catholic churches affiliated with it.
i have met many fine catholic priests and other people and i know many have a true and living faith.
may God guide them and banish the liberalism that is so deeply rooted in some parts of the church.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: orthonorm on February 11, 2013, 05:50:16 PM
Hopefully no scandal is involved (which seems to be the case) or severe illness.  Many years to him!

Btw, just for those who know Chicago and interested in trivia: Division street, if it could go straight through to Rome, would go right through the Cistine Chapel. Holy Trinity Cathedral (0CA) at Rome's longitude would be under the southern half of the dome of St. Peter's Basilica and over the catacombs where St. Peter lies.  Haddon street (the street running along north of the Cathedral) going straight would run under the Baldachin of St. Peter, under the balcony where they say "habenus papam," nick the Obelisk in the center of the Piazza S. Pietro, and go down Via della Conciliazione.
(http://www.rome.info/vatican/map/mapvatican.gif)

Step away from the atlas . . .
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: ialmisry on February 11, 2013, 05:50:32 PM
I'm a Peter Turkson man I think. Timothy Dolan is charismatic and American and all, but he kind of terrifies me.
I was rooting for Cardinal Arinze last time, as he terrified all the right people. He is not eligible to vote (and hence less likely to be elected) since three months ago, unfortunately.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: ialmisry on February 11, 2013, 05:51:36 PM
Hopefully no scandal is involved (which seems to be the case) or severe illness.  Many years to him!

Btw, just for those who know Chicago and interested in trivia: Division street, if it could go straight through to Rome, would go right through the Cistine Chapel. Holy Trinity Cathedral (0CA) at Rome's longitude would be under the southern half of the dome of St. Peter's Basilica and over the catacombs where St. Peter lies.  Haddon street (the street running along north of the Cathedral) going straight would run under the Baldachin of St. Peter, under the balcony where they say "habenus papam," nick the Obelisk in the center of the Piazza S. Pietro, and go down Via della Conciliazione.
(http://www.rome.info/vatican/map/mapvatican.gif)

Step away from the atlas . . .
IL has been practicing geography control from way back..
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: William on February 11, 2013, 05:52:00 PM
Professor who's your man this time around?
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: JamesR on February 11, 2013, 06:01:42 PM
I wonder if the new Pope will affect Orthodox-Catholic relations. I'm hoping for a Pope that will use his international fame and western influence to ease the persecution that Orthodox Christians are facing in the Middle East under Islam.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns
Post by: orthonorm on February 11, 2013, 06:07:27 PM
I think the Orthodox are happy as long as they have something to complain about -- which they would, either way.

That's just downright rude, and wrong.



Like the Bible says, you reap what you sow (I don't believe this at all, but people think it makes a figurative point even if it doesn't make a literal one). The you here is the one we use to avoid using one and sounding English.

In short, oc.net, ain't so kind to RCs.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns
Post by: JamesR on February 11, 2013, 06:12:31 PM
In short, oc.net, ain't so kind to RCs.

To be fair, the Catholic Answers forum isn't too kind to the Orthodox either; you get banned or have your posts deleted the moment you make a point.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns
Post by: biro on February 11, 2013, 06:19:10 PM
In short, oc.net, ain't so kind to RCs.

To be fair, the Catholic Answers forum isn't too kind to the Orthodox either; you get banned or have your posts deleted the moment you make a point.

So, two wrongs make a right? One group can punish strangers for what another has done? Even though they are discrete properties, owned and operated by different people?

I really hope we don't do it that way. If you only love those who love you, what is that to you? Even sinners do the same.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: dzheremi on February 11, 2013, 06:22:40 PM
I'm a Peter Turkson man I think. Timothy Dolan is charismatic and American and all, but he kind of terrifies me.
I was rooting for Cardinal Arinze last time, as he terrified all the right people. He is not eligible to vote (and hence less likely to be elected) since three months ago, unfortunately.

Why is this? Is it his age? Of all the names I've heard, I would go for Cardinal Arinze all the way. Always loved him. Seems like a real straight-shooter at a point in time when Rome could really use one.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns
Post by: Peter J on February 11, 2013, 06:32:20 PM
Like the Bible says, you reap what you sow (I don't believe this at all, but people think it makes a figurative point even if it doesn't make a literal one). The you here is the one we use to avoid using one and sounding English.

In short, oc.net, ain't so kind to RCs.

I thought they just had a funny way of showing it.  :D

In short, oc.net, ain't so kind to RCs.

To be fair, the Catholic Answers forum isn't too kind to the Orthodox either;

True.  :(
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: ironchapman on February 11, 2013, 07:02:06 PM
I'm a Peter Turkson man I think. Timothy Dolan is charismatic and American and all, but he kind of terrifies me.

But he's not a Roman! He's an African!
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: ialmisry on February 11, 2013, 07:04:36 PM
I'm a Peter Turkson man I think. Timothy Dolan is charismatic and American and all, but he kind of terrifies me.
I was rooting for Cardinal Arinze last time, as he terrified all the right people. He is not eligible to vote (and hence less likely to be elected) since three months ago, unfortunately.

Why is this? Is it his age? Of all the names I've heard, I would go for Cardinal Arinze all the way. Always loved him. Seems like a real straight-shooter at a point in time when Rome could really use one.
Yes, the age limit.  Technically, he can still be elected, but since he cannot elect one, the chances of him being elected is slim.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: ialmisry on February 11, 2013, 07:06:50 PM
Professor who's your man this time around?
I could live with Card. Dolan. For one thing, like the former Card. Ratzinger, I don't think he wants the job.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Jetavan on February 11, 2013, 07:07:41 PM
I'm a Peter Turkson man I think. Timothy Dolan is charismatic and American and all, but he kind of terrifies me.

But he's not a Roman! He's an African!
Marcus Antonius Gordianus Sempronianus Romanus Africanus
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Papist on February 11, 2013, 07:14:01 PM
I'm a Peter Turkson man I think. Timothy Dolan is charismatic and American and all, but he kind of terrifies me.
I was rooting for Cardinal Arinze last time, as he terrified all the right people. He is not eligible to vote (and hence less likely to be elected) since three months ago, unfortunately.
Look at that. We are actually in agreement on this matter.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Jetavan on February 11, 2013, 07:14:46 PM
Blast from the not-too-distant past:

Quote
January 7, 2013. (Romereports.com) (http://www.romereports.com/palio/pope-ordains-personal-secretary-georg-gaenswein-as-bishop-english-8684.html#.URl7yKW7PoI) The personal secretary to the Pope is now archbishop. During the ceremony at St. Peter's Basilica, three other prelates were ordained: Vincenzo Zani, Fortunatus Nwackukwu and Nicolas Thevenin.

One month ago, Benedict XVI reinforced his trust in Georg Gaenswein by naming him as the Prefect of the Papal Household. His duties will include coordinating activities and meetings for the Pope.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Papist on February 11, 2013, 07:15:32 PM
Professor who's your man this time around?
I could live with Card. Dolan. For one thing, like the former Card. Ratzinger, I don't think he wants the job.
I think the chances of there ever being an American Pope are very slim.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Shiny on February 11, 2013, 07:15:56 PM
I'm not trying to troll, but genuinely asking.

How much blame is on Pope Benedict with how he handled the priest sex scandals? Could an argument been made that he should have done more?
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Papist on February 11, 2013, 07:16:38 PM
I'm not trying to troll, but genuinely asking.

How much blame is on Pope Benedict with how he handled the priest sex scandals? Could an argument been made that he should have done more?
Any time anything goes wrong, those arguments can be made.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Shiny on February 11, 2013, 07:18:30 PM
I'm not trying to troll, but genuinely asking.

How much blame is on Pope Benedict with how he handled the priest sex scandals? Could an argument been made that he should have done more?
Any time anything goes wrong, those arguments can be made.
To what extent is he responsible and what should he have done?

How the RCC handled the sex scandals has been utterly tragic.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Pharaoh714 on February 11, 2013, 07:22:12 PM

So, will the next Pope be named Peter?    :-\

Or Simon.

Or "the Rock"  :D   

I bet if the Rock becomes the Pope alot will convert  ;)
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Papist on February 11, 2013, 07:22:43 PM
I'm not trying to troll, but genuinely asking.

How much blame is on Pope Benedict with how he handled the priest sex scandals? Could an argument been made that he should have done more?
Any time anything goes wrong, those arguments can be made.
To what extent is he responsible and what should he have done?

How the RCC handled the sex scandals has been utterly tragic.
In response to your question, I honestly don't known. And in response to your observation, I agree.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Jetavan on February 11, 2013, 07:26:28 PM
I don't think Hans Küng will be in the running. Just a hunch.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: augustin717 on February 11, 2013, 07:28:19 PM
Professor who's your man this time around?
I could live with Card. Dolan. For one thing, like the former Card. Ratzinger, I don't think he wants the job.
I think the chances of there ever being an American Pope are very slim.
It would be like taking imperialism to the next level
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: ialmisry on February 11, 2013, 07:29:04 PM
I'm not trying to troll, but genuinely asking.

How much blame is on Pope Benedict with how he handled the priest sex scandals? Could an argument been made that he should have done more?
Any time anything goes wrong, those arguments can be made.
To what extent is he responsible and what should he have done?
Not much from what I've seen, except allowing his predecessor's assylum for Cardinal Law continue.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: TheMathematician on February 11, 2013, 07:29:52 PM
I wast to see a Black African be elected, just for something radically different to happen.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: ialmisry on February 11, 2013, 07:30:06 PM
Professor who's your man this time around?
I could live with Card. Dolan. For one thing, like the former Card. Ratzinger, I don't think he wants the job.
I think the chances of there ever being an American Pope are very slim.
It would be like taking imperialism to the next level
Yeah, there's never been imperialist Germans, Poles or Italians ::)
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: ialmisry on February 11, 2013, 07:31:13 PM
Professor who's your man this time around?
I could live with Card. Dolan. For one thing, like the former Card. Ratzinger, I don't think he wants the job.
I think the chances of there ever being an American Pope are very slim.
yes, for a variety of reasons.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Papist on February 11, 2013, 07:31:29 PM
I wast to see a Black African be elected, just for something radically different to happen.
quite a few of us want Cardinal Arinze.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: TheMathematician on February 11, 2013, 07:40:06 PM
I wast to see a Black African be elected, just for something radically different to happen.
quite a few of us want Cardinal Arinze.

While from a quick glance, would be nice, wouldnt the odds be very, very against him, seeing as he's over 80?
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Tony on February 11, 2013, 07:44:33 PM
That is a great idea.

He will layeth the Smackdown on all dissenters.

On his travels he will shout "Finally the Pope has come back to (insert country)"

Also at the next council when he asks the other bishops what they think about any dogmas he wants to define, he can tell them "it doesn't matter what you think!!"

 :laugh:

So, will the next Pope be named Peter?    :-\

Or Simon.

Or "the Rock"  :D   

I bet if the Rock becomes the Pope alot will convert  ;)
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Papist on February 11, 2013, 07:54:15 PM
I wast to see a Black African be elected, just for something radically different to happen.
quite a few of us want Cardinal Arinze.

While from a quick glance, would be nice, wouldnt the odds be very, very against him, seeing as he's over 80?
You are correct. Unfortunately, age is upon him.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: choy on February 11, 2013, 07:54:48 PM
I wast to see a Black African be elected, just for something radically different to happen.
quite a few of us want Cardinal Arinze.

I think its time that a young bishop takes the chair of the Pope.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Papist on February 11, 2013, 07:59:35 PM
I wast to see a Black African be elected, just for something radically different to happen.
quite a few of us want Cardinal Arinze.

I think its time that a young bishop takes the chair of the Pope.
Perhaps. Too bad the good cardinal is not younger. He would be an excellent choice.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Jetavan on February 11, 2013, 07:59:44 PM
That is a great idea.

He will layeth the Smackdown on all dissenters.

On his travels he will shout "Finally the Pope has come back to (insert country)"

Also at the next council when he asks the other bishops what they think about any dogmas he wants to define, he can tell them "it doesn't matter what you think!!"

 :laugh:

So, will the next Pope be named Peter?    :-\

Or Simon.

Or "the Rock"  :D   

I bet if the Rock becomes the Pope alot will convert  ;)
Smell what the conclave is cookin'.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: orthonorm on February 11, 2013, 08:09:38 PM
I wast to see a Black African be elected, just for something radically different to happen.

Window dressing is radical change?

Welcome to the desert of the real.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: choy on February 11, 2013, 08:10:17 PM

So, will the next Pope be named Peter?    :-\

Or Simon.

Or "the Rock"  :D   

I bet if the Rock becomes the Pope alot will convert  ;)

(http://www.memegeneokerlund.com/media/created/u3b46t.jpg)
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns
Post by: Tikhon.of.Colorado on February 11, 2013, 08:10:30 PM
My hope is that, whomever is selected as the new Pope, he picks a good name like Michael, and not one that's hard to spell.

There already is a Pope Michael:
(http://www.eyeofthetiber.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/POPE.jpg)
A ridiculous mamma's boy who found the best excuse not to leave home.  
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Basil 320 on February 11, 2013, 08:14:51 PM
Bob Beckel on "The Five" suggested the Cardinal electors should look to South (and Central, probably) America for +Benedict's successor, because that's where 41% of Roman Catholic's reside.

I would like to see an Italian elected because the Pope is the Bishop of Rome.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns
Post by: augustin717 on February 11, 2013, 08:15:17 PM
My hope is that, whomever is selected as the new Pope, he picks a good name like Michael, and not one that's hard to spell.

There already is a Pope Michael:
(http://www.eyeofthetiber.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/POPE.jpg)
A ridiculous mamma's boy who found the best excuse not to leave home.  
quit stereotyping mamma's boys. they ain't all catholic. or popes.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: choy on February 11, 2013, 08:16:39 PM
Bob Beckel on "The Five" suggested the Cardinal electors should look to South (and Central, probably) America for +Benedict's successor, because that's where 41% of Roman Catholic reside.

I would like to see an Italian elected because the Pope is the Bishop of Rome.

Well, the Pope can come from anywhere because he has universal ordinary jurisdiction.  So South America, Italy, Antarctica, all the same to the Pope.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Tikhon.of.Colorado on February 11, 2013, 08:18:51 PM
I'd like to see a pope come from an Arab land like Lebanon, Palestine, Syria, or such places. 
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Shiny on February 11, 2013, 08:19:26 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/FPwuDQT.jpg)
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: augustin717 on February 11, 2013, 08:20:34 PM
time for a popess right
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: choy on February 11, 2013, 08:21:22 PM
I'd like to see a pope come from an Arab land like Lebanon, Palestine, Syria, or such places. 

I wonder how the Russian Orthodox Church would feel if His Beatitude Sviatoslav of the Ukrainian Catholics become Pope.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: choy on February 11, 2013, 08:21:38 PM
time for a popess right

Joan II?
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: podkarpatska on February 11, 2013, 08:37:50 PM
Huffpost had the best headline so far: "HOLY SEE YA' LATER."
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns
Post by: William on February 11, 2013, 08:38:54 PM
quit stereotyping

Ironic.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: ironchapman on February 11, 2013, 08:40:51 PM
Lightning strikes St. Peter's.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2276884/Pope-Benedict-XVI-resigns-First-Pontiff-600-years-stand-longer-strength-carry-on.html

Marc Ouellet would be an interesting choice as well.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns
Post by: augustin717 on February 11, 2013, 08:43:33 PM
quit stereotyping

Ironic.
d
r u able to detect humor/irony?
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: ialmisry on February 11, 2013, 08:44:38 PM
That is a great idea.

He will layeth the Smackdown on all dissenters.

On his travels he will shout "Finally the Pope has come back to (insert country)"

Also at the next council when he asks the other bishops what they think about any dogmas he wants to define, he can tell them "it doesn't matter what you think!!"

 :laugh:

So, will the next Pope be named Peter?    :-\

Or Simon.

Or "the Rock"  :D   

I bet if the Rock becomes the Pope alot will convert  ;)
Smell what the conclave is cookin'.
is it soup yet?
(http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2005/04/17/chimney_wideweb__430x306.jpg)
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: podkarpatska on February 11, 2013, 08:48:01 PM
From the statement from the EP on the Pope's resignation:

"His writings will long speak of his deep theological understanding, through his knowledge of the Fathers of the undivided Church, his familiarity with contemporary reality, and his keen interest in the problems of humankind.

We Orthodox will always honor him as a friend of our Church and a faithful servant of the sacred proposition for the union of all. Moreover, we shall rejoice upon learning of his sound health and the productivity of his theological work." http://www.goarch.org/news/epbartholomew-benedict-02112013
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Peter J on February 11, 2013, 08:59:22 PM
Professor who's your man this time around?
I could live with Card. Dolan. For one thing, like the former Card. Ratzinger, I don't think he wants the job.
I think the chances of there ever being an American Pope are very slim.
It would be like taking imperialism to the next level
How about, Pope Jeremiah Wright?
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Jetavan on February 11, 2013, 09:01:25 PM
Professor who's your man this time around?
I could live with Card. Dolan. For one thing, like the former Card. Ratzinger, I don't think he wants the job.
I think the chances of there ever being an American Pope are very slim.
It would be like taking imperialism to the next level
How about, Pope Jeremiah Wright?
Not gonna happen. No ex-U.S. Marine has ever become Pope.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Charles Martel on February 11, 2013, 09:01:58 PM
I wast to see a Black African be elected, just for something radically different to happen.
Yea you would..

Maybe they'll find some way to elect Obama pope.


Yea man......radical. ::)
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: That person on February 11, 2013, 09:02:50 PM
I wast to see a Black African be elected, just for something radically different to happen.
quite a few of us want Cardinal Arinze.
In terms of black Africans, is there any particular reason you mention him above Cardinal Turkson?
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Papist on February 11, 2013, 09:03:54 PM
I wast to see a Black African be elected, just for something radically different to happen.
quite a few of us want Cardinal Arinze.
In terms of black Africans, is there any particular reason you mention him above Cardinal Turkson?
Just that he has a lot of experience, and as Isa pointed out, Cardinal Arinze scares all the right people.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Shiny on February 11, 2013, 09:04:05 PM
Maybe they'll find some way to elect Obama pope.
So basically another white pope then.

From Kenya.

WHERE'S YOUR BAPTISMAL CERTIFICATE OBAMA?!

Birthers meet Baptizers
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Papist on February 11, 2013, 09:04:33 PM
Maybe they'll find some way to elect Obama pope.
So basically another white pope then.
lol
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns
Post by: ChristusDominus on February 11, 2013, 09:05:16 PM
To put it mildly, an Easter Catholic Pope would probably have a negative impact on Orthodox-Catholic relations.

Most Orthodox would much prefer a "Latin" Pope over an Eastern Catholic one.

So? A Byzantine Pope would be awesome. An Oriental one is fine too.
Pope JPII's mother was Byzantine Catholic.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Jetavan on February 11, 2013, 09:06:12 PM
Too bad we can't have a Pope Zen (http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/cardinal-zen-says-vatican-needs-tougher-approach-to-china/) anytime soon.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns
Post by: choy on February 11, 2013, 09:06:51 PM
To put it mildly, an Easter Catholic Pope would probably have a negative impact on Orthodox-Catholic relations.

Most Orthodox would much prefer a "Latin" Pope over an Eastern Catholic one.

So? A Byzantine Pope would be awesome. An Oriental one is fine too.
Pope JPII's mother was Byzantine Catholic.

That is unconfirmed.  I asked my former bishop who is a bishop of the UGCC if this is true.  He said Pope John Paul II never confirmed nor denied this matter when he was asked about it.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: choy on February 11, 2013, 09:07:50 PM
Too bad we can't have a Pope Zen (http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/cardinal-zen-says-vatican-needs-tougher-approach-to-china/) anytime soon.

That still pales in comparison to the Philippines' Cardinal Sin.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Charles Martel on February 11, 2013, 09:09:23 PM
Cardinal Peter Kodwo Appiah Turkson


Reasons He Might Not Get Elected: The Catholic Church in Africa can be very disconnected from the Church that the majority of the European Cardinals live in. In Africa the top issues aren't sexual politics and theological disputes, they are exorcism, animism, the growth of Islam, and condemnation of Western economic policy.

[/b]Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/meet-the-man-who-will-be-the-next-pope-2012-4?op=1#ixzz2KdvN3HjF

Do we want a pope or a witchdoctor?
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Papist on February 11, 2013, 09:10:36 PM
Cardinal Peter Kodwo Appiah Turkson


Reasons He Might Not Get Elected: The Catholic Church in Africa can be very disconnected from the Church that the majority of the European Cardinals live in. In Africa the top issues aren't sexual politics and theological disputes, they are exorcism, animism, the growth of Islam, and condemnation of Western economic policy.

[/b]Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/meet-the-man-who-will-be-the-next-pope-2012-4?op=1#ixzz2KdvN3HjF

Do we want a pope or a witchdoctor?
Please tell me that you are not serious.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Charles Martel on February 11, 2013, 09:11:36 PM
Maybe they'll find some way to elect Obama pope.
So basically another white pope then.

From Kenya.

WHERE'S YOUR BAPTISMAL CERTIFICATE OBAMA?!

Birthers meet Baptizers
Ah, doesn't matter, they'll treat him like a rock star in the Vatican like they did at Notre Dame. ::)

Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Tommelomsky on February 11, 2013, 09:12:55 PM
My thoughts would be cardinal Marc Ouellet.
Not that those thoughts really matters for anything at all.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: biro on February 11, 2013, 09:13:40 PM
Bob Beckel on "The Five" suggested the Cardinal electors should look to South (and Central, probably) America for +Benedict's successor, because that's where 41% of Roman Catholic reside.

I would like to see an Italian elected because the Pope is the Bishop of Rome.

Well, the Pope can come from anywhere because he has universal ordinary jurisdiction.  So South America, Italy, Antarctica, all the same to the Pope.

Go, Antarctica!
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: That person on February 11, 2013, 09:15:25 PM
Cardinal Peter Kodwo Appiah Turkson


Reasons He Might Not Get Elected: The Catholic Church in Africa can be very disconnected from the Church that the majority of the European Cardinals live in. In Africa the top issues aren't sexual politics and theological disputes, they are exorcism, animism, the growth of Islam, and condemnation of Western economic policy.

[/b]Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/meet-the-man-who-will-be-the-next-pope-2012-4?op=1#ixzz2KdvN3HjF

Do we want a pope or a witchdoctor?
See, the more I realize that this might finally get racist morons to reevaluate Christianity, the more excited the prospect makes me.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: dzheremi on February 11, 2013, 09:19:13 PM
Bob Beckel on "The Five" suggested the Cardinal electors should look to South (and Central, probably) America for +Benedict's successor, because that's where 41% of Roman Catholic reside.

I would like to see an Italian elected because the Pope is the Bishop of Rome.

Well, the Pope can come from anywhere because he has universal ordinary jurisdiction.  So South America, Italy, Antarctica, all the same to the Pope.

Go, Antarctica!

(http://www.eclectech.co.uk/b3ta/penguinpopenuns.gif)

Pope Penguin is going as fast as he can!
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Charles Martel on February 11, 2013, 09:20:11 PM
Cardinal Peter Kodwo Appiah Turkson


Reasons He Might Not Get Elected: The Catholic Church in Africa can be very disconnected from the Church that the majority of the European Cardinals live in. In Africa the top issues aren't sexual politics and theological disputes, they are exorcism, animism, the growth of Islam, and condemnation of Western economic policy.

[/b]Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/meet-the-man-who-will-be-the-next-pope-2012-4?op=1#ixzz2KdvN3HjF

Do we want a pope or a witchdoctor?
Please tell me that you are not serious.
I don't know, this one hit me pretty hard today, I liked Benedict much and he fought the good fight for Orthodoxy (Not EO people, so spare me) and brought much back for tradition including the TLM and probably tirelessly fought the modernists and liberals investing the Vatican like rats, that it probably took it's toll on him. Who knows what we're going to be subjected to in replacing him.


The Church has serious issues in these times and already I'm hearing this like it's some kind of a popularity contest like an American election with a bunch of brainless stooges controlling the levers moaning and wailing about "diversity" and "change".

I've had about enough of both, I don't think I can take any more.

These are dire times, popes just don't "resign" like this.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: choy on February 11, 2013, 09:29:14 PM
My thoughts would be cardinal Marc Ouellet.
Not that those thoughts really matters for anything at all.

NO!!!!  We can't have a Quebecois as a Pope!!!!!!!
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns
Post by: Melodist on February 11, 2013, 09:30:45 PM
Maybe the Pope is resigning so he can become Orthodox :)

He could do that before resigning...
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Charles Martel on February 11, 2013, 09:32:30 PM
Cardinal Peter Kodwo Appiah Turkson


Reasons He Might Not Get Elected: The Catholic Church in Africa can be very disconnected from the Church that the majority of the European Cardinals live in. In Africa the top issues aren't sexual politics and theological disputes, they are exorcism, animism, the growth of Islam, and condemnation of Western economic policy.

[/b]Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/meet-the-man-who-will-be-the-next-pope-2012-4?op=1#ixzz2KdvN3HjF

Do we want a pope or a witchdoctor?
See, the more I realize that this might finally get racist morons to reevaluate Christianity, the more excited the prospect makes me.
What are you trying to say? Do you revel in the thought that I lose my faith?


That makes you feel good doesn't it........the thought of me burning in hell for eternity because , after all, i'm just a "racist moron".

Hope that really excites you.

Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Jetavan on February 11, 2013, 09:34:37 PM
Cardinal Peter Kodwo Appiah Turkson


Reasons He Might Not Get Elected: The Catholic Church in Africa can be very disconnected from the Church that the majority of the European Cardinals live in. In Africa the top issues aren't sexual politics and theological disputes, they are exorcism, animism, the growth of Islam, and condemnation of Western economic policy.

[/b]Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/meet-the-man-who-will-be-the-next-pope-2012-4?op=1#ixzz2KdvN3HjF

Do we want a pope or a witchdoctor?
See, the more I realize that this might finally get racist morons to reevaluate Christianity, the more excited the prospect makes me.
What are you trying to say? Do you revel in the thought that I lose my faith?


That makes you feel good doesn't it........the thought of me burning in hell for eternity because , after all, i'm just a "racist moron".

Hope that really excites you.


Just because one is not a Christian, doesn't mean one will burn in hell.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Sinful Hypocrite on February 11, 2013, 09:46:41 PM
I don't understand the idea of resigning from papacy. I know that according to RCC papacy is a office and not a sacrament but still there is something fishy in the idea.

Same here. A Pope voluntarily abdicating doesn't have much of a precedent if you discount the Pope whom Dante saw in hell.

Why does his resignation have to be "fishy" just because we do not yet understand or know all the details of it?  Why can we not take him at his word, that he is resigning because he is not physically up to the task and just leave it at that for now?

A Pope voluntarily abdicating will now have a better precedent after Feb. 28, 2013.  There is much we do not understand.  If we wait and keep our hearts open, perhaps with more time we will have greater understanding.

Many Years to His Holiness!!!

The thing that seems untrue is how he could be worse off than what the last Pope was the last few years, Pope John paul could hardy hold his head up at the end.

Also I read Pope John Paul struggled with his health for a long time when he was shot, it seems that Benedict is not willing to struggle as much as a Pope who stays till he dies.

I will say that this may be a good thing though , and it is for God to say whether it is or not.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: That person on February 11, 2013, 09:48:20 PM
Cardinal Peter Kodwo Appiah Turkson


Reasons He Might Not Get Elected: The Catholic Church in Africa can be very disconnected from the Church that the majority of the European Cardinals live in. In Africa the top issues aren't sexual politics and theological disputes, they are exorcism, animism, the growth of Islam, and condemnation of Western economic policy.

[/b]Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/meet-the-man-who-will-be-the-next-pope-2012-4?op=1#ixzz2KdvN3HjF

Do we want a pope or a witchdoctor?
See, the more I realize that this might finally get racist morons to reevaluate Christianity, the more excited the prospect makes me.
What are you trying to say? Do you revel in the thought that I lose my faith?


That makes you feel good doesn't it........the thought of me burning in hell for eternity because , after all, i'm just a "racist moron".

Hope that really excites you.


I'm just saying, it'd be good if you considered your attitudes, really wrestled if they're truly compatible with Christianity and with Catholicism in particular, and decided what's really important to you. Frankly, I'd rather you be a non-racist Catholic than a racist non-Catholic, but what happens happens. Or maybe you'll stick to both, who knows?
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: JamesR on February 11, 2013, 09:56:49 PM
How about a Mexican-Grandmother for a Pope? While most of us are lapsed and only nominally Roman Catholic, in every Mexican family there is ALWAYS at least one extremely faithful, "Traditionalist Thomas" Roman Catholic grandmother.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Papist on February 11, 2013, 10:01:27 PM
How about a Mexican-Grandmother for a Pope? While most of us are lapsed and only nominally Roman Catholic, in every Mexican family there is ALWAYS at least one extremely faithful, "Traditionalist Thomas" Roman Catholic grandmother.
That's my mom. She is probably the most faithful in our family, and she is the grandma.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: TheMathematician on February 11, 2013, 10:05:01 PM
I wast to see a Black African be elected, just for something radically different to happen.
Yea you would..

Maybe they'll find some way to elect Obama pope.


Yea man......radical. ::)

Care to explain what you mean by this comment?
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: jewish voice on February 11, 2013, 10:21:27 PM
well according to Malachy of Ireland this new pope is it and the world will end. he said the last pope's name is Peter and will be from Rome. I guess we will have to see how it all plays out.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Papist on February 11, 2013, 10:23:21 PM
well according to Malachy of Ireland this new pope is it and the world will end. he said the last pope's name is Peter and will be from Rome. I guess we will have to see how it all plays out.
From what I understand, the "Prophecy of Malachy" was never given by St. Malachy. Instead, it was a later forgery.
Title: Re: Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Maria on February 11, 2013, 10:37:12 PM
No this is not a headline from the Onion. I would like to know more about the candidates and their view of relations with the Orthodox

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/12/world/europe/pope-benedict-xvi-says-he-will-retire.html?_r=0


A picture of the Lightning Bolt striking St. Peter's dome at the Vatican was just shown on Channel 10, ABC, on San Diego.

Why did the lightning bolt strike the Vatican soon after the Pope's resignation? Note that a lightning bolt also struck the Vatican at the Council of Vatican I, when the doctrines of Papal Infallibility and Supremacy were declared.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Nephi on February 11, 2013, 10:37:55 PM
There's another prophecy about the next pope (IIRC) from fringe pseudo-Adventist/Sacred Name groups that believe Pope John Paul II will be impersonated by a demon, claim to be resurrected, and take the papacy. Then end times.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Shiny on February 11, 2013, 10:39:28 PM
There's another prophecy about the next pope (IIRC) from fringe pseudo-Adventist/Sacred Name groups that believe Pope John Paul II will be impersonated by a demon, claim to be resurrected, and take the papacy. Then end times.
Yeah Prophecy of the Popes:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophecy_of_the_Popes

Nobody got my joke in my 2nd post ITT. :(
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: choy on February 11, 2013, 10:39:45 PM
There's another prophecy about the next pope (IIRC) from fringe pseudo-Adventist/Sacred Name groups that believe Pope John Paul II will be impersonated by a demon, claim to be resurrected, and take the papacy. Then end times.

He'd have to hide his body first.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: dzheremi on February 11, 2013, 10:40:02 PM
How about a Mexican-Grandmother for a Pope? While most of us are lapsed and only nominally Roman Catholic, in every Mexican family there is ALWAYS at least one extremely faithful, "Traditionalist Thomas" Roman Catholic grandmother.

My grandmother was devout when I was really young, but by the time she died (post-RCC sex scandals), she specifically asked that she not be given a church funeral. It's weird, though...she showed up to my reception into the RCC circa age 23, even though she was confined to a wheelchair by that point, and seemed very happy to witness it. Grandmas are complex sometimes, I guess. (My other grandmother, of Danish-English stock, decidedly less so: "You did what? Why would you want to join a church? That's stupid. All they do is tell you what to do." I guess she doesn't like anyone honing in on her racket... :P We get along okay nowadays, though. But I still didn't tell her when I became Orthodox. Why start a fight that you don't need to have.)
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: ZealousZeal on February 11, 2013, 10:40:34 PM
Cardinal Peter Kodwo Appiah Turkson


Reasons He Might Not Get Elected: The Catholic Church in Africa can be very disconnected from the Church that the majority of the European Cardinals live in. In Africa the top issues aren't sexual politics and theological disputes, they are exorcism, animism, the growth of Islam, and condemnation of Western economic policy.

[/b]Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/meet-the-man-who-will-be-the-next-pope-2012-4?op=1#ixzz2KdvN3HjF

Do we want a pope or a witchdoctor?

So because they aren't the top issues for Western/white people they aren't valid issues for others in the church? Interesting.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Nephi on February 11, 2013, 10:40:54 PM
There's another prophecy about the next pope (IIRC) from fringe pseudo-Adventist/Sacred Name groups that believe Pope John Paul II will be impersonated by a demon, claim to be resurrected, and take the papacy. Then end times.
Yeah Prophecy of the Popes:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophecy_of_the_Popes

Nobody got my joke in my 2nd post ITT. :(

Isn't that the Malachy prophecy? I was thinking the prophecy I mentioned and that one were two separate ones.
Title: Re: Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Nephi on February 11, 2013, 10:41:31 PM
A picture of the Lightning Bolt striking St. Peter's dome at the Vatican was just shown on Channel 10, ABC, on San Diego.

Why did the lightning bolt strike the Vatican soon after the Pope's resignation? Note that a lightning bolt also struck the Vatican at the Council of Vatican I, when the doctrines of Papal Infallibility and Supremacy were declared.
(http://i1.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article1704267.ece/BINARY/Lightening+strikes+the+Vatican.jpg)
From: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/lightning-strikes-vatican-on-the-day-the-pope-1704295
Title: Re: Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: choy on February 11, 2013, 10:56:56 PM
A picture of the Lightning Bolt striking St. Peter's dome at the Vatican was just shown on Channel 10, ABC, on San Diego.

Why did the lightning bolt strike the Vatican soon after the Pope's resignation? Note that a lightning bolt also struck the Vatican at the Council of Vatican I, when the doctrines of Papal Infallibility and Supremacy were declared.
(http://i1.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article1704267.ece/BINARY/Lightening+strikes+the+Vatican.jpg)
From: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/lightning-strikes-vatican-on-the-day-the-pope-1704295

Maybe the Pope yelled, "By the power of Infallibility!!!  I have universal supreme ordinary jurisdictional power!!!"

(http://www.howyougetstrong.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/greyskull.jpg)
Title: Re: Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: podkarpatska on February 11, 2013, 11:12:09 PM
No this is not a headline from the Onion. I would like to know more about the candidates and their view of relations with the Orthodox

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/12/world/europe/pope-benedict-xvi-says-he-will-retire.html?_r=0


A picture of the Lightning Bolt striking St. Peter's dome at the Vatican was just shown on Channel 10, ABC, on San Diego.

Why did the lightning bolt strike the Vatican soon after the Pope's resignation? Note that a lightning bolt also struck the Vatican at the Council of Vatican I, when the doctrines of Papal Infallibility and Supremacy were declared.

Also lightning hit the chambers of Alexander VI, the Borgia Pope.
Title: Re: Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Maximum Bob on February 11, 2013, 11:49:01 PM
A picture of the Lightning Bolt striking St. Peter's dome at the Vatican was just shown on Channel 10, ABC, on San Diego.

Why did the lightning bolt strike the Vatican soon after the Pope's resignation? Note that a lightning bolt also struck the Vatican at the Council of Vatican I, when the doctrines of Papal Infallibility and Supremacy were declared.
(http://i1.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article1704267.ece/BINARY/Lightening+strikes+the+Vatican.jpg)
From: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/lightning-strikes-vatican-on-the-day-the-pope-1704295
Some of my fringe edge Protestant friends are already going gaga over this.
Title: Re: Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Nephi on February 12, 2013, 12:02:39 AM
Some of my fringe edge Protestant friends are already going gaga over this.

End times stuff?
Title: Re: Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Shiny on February 12, 2013, 12:04:14 AM
Some of my fringe edge Protestant friends are already going gaga over this.

End times stuff?
This reminds me of a Bible Study class were we talked about how a Protestant Church next to ours was struck by lightning.
Title: Re: Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Maximum Bob on February 12, 2013, 12:07:00 AM
Some of my fringe edge Protestant friends are already going gaga over this.

End times stuff?
Yup, well that and rabid anti-Catholicism.  ::)
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: dzheremi on February 12, 2013, 12:11:04 AM
Cardinal Peter Kodwo Appiah Turkson


Reasons He Might Not Get Elected: The Catholic Church in Africa can be very disconnected from the Church that the majority of the European Cardinals live in. In Africa the top issues aren't sexual politics and theological disputes, they are exorcism, animism, the growth of Islam, and condemnation of Western economic policy.

[/b]Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/meet-the-man-who-will-be-the-next-pope-2012-4?op=1#ixzz2KdvN3HjF

Do we want a pope or a witchdoctor?

So because they aren't the top issues for Western/white people they aren't valid issues for others in the church? Interesting.

Yes, because if there's one thing I think of when I think of the Roman Catholic Church, it's white people and their particular concerns.

(http://i3.ytimg.com/vi/iS1oSeG8NyA/hqdefault.jpg)

Pictured: A bunch of honkies gather to greet the Roman Pope. (Just kidding, of course. Good thing they've got him in that protective car, eh Charles? Otherwise those black folks might get their witchcraft all over him. Ew.)
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Santagranddad on February 12, 2013, 12:51:54 AM
Some of the most devout and sober Catholics and Anglicans I've come across were Africans from sub-Saharan Africa. And I know of one Orthodox priest originally from Nigeria who an Igumen described as one to whom God listened.

I suppose what stuck out in each case is their faith did not seem 'qualified' by the doubts and rationalisations that, to me at least, appear all too common in the Western, or should that be Northern, world?
Title: Re: Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Jetavan on February 12, 2013, 12:54:43 AM
A picture of the Lightning Bolt striking St. Peter's dome at the Vatican was just shown on Channel 10, ABC, on San Diego.

Why did the lightning bolt strike the Vatican soon after the Pope's resignation? Note that a lightning bolt also struck the Vatican at the Council of Vatican I, when the doctrines of Papal Infallibility and Supremacy were declared.
....
From: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/lightning-strikes-vatican-on-the-day-the-pope-1704295
Jesus was struck by lightning (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/3209223.stm) too.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Jetavan on February 12, 2013, 01:01:58 AM
Let the betting begin:

"Ladbrokes yesterday made Cardinal Turkson the 5/2 favourite (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/who-willl-be-the-next-pope-odds-1704391) to replace Pope Benedict XVI. Cardinal Marc Ouellet was given a 3/1 chance and third favourite Cardinal Francis Arinze was 4/1.

Jessica Bridge of Ladbrokes said: “The fingers are now pointing at Cardinal Turkson to address the masses in St. Peter’s Square for the foreseeable future.”

Punters flocked to the bookies to place their bets last night."
Title: Re: Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Maria on February 12, 2013, 01:08:46 AM
A picture of the Lightning Bolt striking St. Peter's dome at the Vatican was just shown on Channel 10, ABC, on San Diego.

Why did the lightning bolt strike the Vatican soon after the Pope's resignation? Note that a lightning bolt also struck the Vatican at the Council of Vatican I, when the doctrines of Papal Infallibility and Supremacy were declared.
....
From: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/lightning-strikes-vatican-on-the-day-the-pope-1704295
Jesus was struck by lightning (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/3209223.stm) too.

Perhaps that lightning strike made the actor think twice about the God-Man, Jesus Christ, whom he was portraying.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: choy on February 12, 2013, 01:15:05 AM
Punters flocked to the bookies to place their bets last night."

I'm still consulting Conclave analysts before I place my bet.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Robb on February 12, 2013, 01:49:24 AM
I hope that its not that African Cardinal ( Peter Tongo something)
I heard rumors that he might be an Afro Marxist eho would either favor third world nations over the desperately needed re evangelization of European nations.  He could also try to liberalize or Africanize the RC liturgy and theology / morality.  We need to reme.mber as Belloc said Europe is the faith and vis a versa. Other nations have the place but we should always take care of our mother first
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Asteriktos on February 12, 2013, 01:57:30 AM
I hope that its not that African Cardinal ( Peter Tongo something)
I heard rumors that he might be an Afro Marxist eho would either favor third world nations over the desperately needed re evangelization of European nations.  He could also try to liberalize or Africanize the RC liturgy and theology / morality.  We need to reme.mber as Belloc said Europe is the faith and vis a versa. Other nations have the place but we should always take care of our mother first

You disgust me.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns
Post by: serb1389 on February 12, 2013, 02:00:40 AM
My hope is that, whomever is selected as the new Pope, he picks a good name like Michael, and not one that's hard to spell.

There already is a Pope Michael:
(http://www.eyeofthetiber.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/POPE.jpg)

There's apparently a documentary about Pope Michael (http://popemichaelfilm.com/) that's free for viewing.

I know what I'll be watching during my lunch hour.

If you want to feel a little depressed . . .

Schadenfreude, mein Kumpel. :)

EDIT TO AVOID MODERATORIAL SANCTIONS: "[M]ein Kumpel" means "my pal" in German.  ;)

Sie haben vergessen das wir haben auch auf deutsch bevor gesprochen ! ("You have forgotten that we have spoken German before")

 translation into English added per forum rules. S1389
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: PeterTheAleut on February 12, 2013, 02:05:49 AM
I wast to see a Black African be elected, just for something radically different to happen.
Yea you would..

Maybe they'll find some way to elect Obama pope.


Yea man......radical. ::)

Care to explain what you mean by this comment?
Only as long as he doesn't delve into politics.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Robb on February 12, 2013, 02:15:11 AM
[
Tough, I heard that he was a proponent of liberal beliefs ( as head of the Pontifical council for Justice and Peace they recently issued a statement calling for world currency and government).  As a European American I'm proud of my culture,  religion,  and heritage and wish to see those things preservfor posterity.  If that's not PC to some people, then too bad.  I'm not a very PC person and make no bones about it. People of all races and colors are welcome in the Big Ten of the Roman Church, But people like myself would like to see that shirt continue to be becenter in Europe and certainly not become the religious equivalent to the Obama administration and all its policies.
quote author=Asteriktos link=topic=49883.msg880442#msg880442 date=1360648650]
I hope that its not that African Cardinal ( Peter Tongo something)
I heard rumors that he might be an Afro Marxist eho would either favor third world nations over the desperately needed re evangelization of European nations.  He could also try to liberalize or Africanize the RC liturgy and theology / morality.  We need to reme.mber as Belloc said Europe is the faith and vis a versa. Other nations have the place but we should always take care of our mother first

You disgust me.
[/quote]
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: serb1389 on February 12, 2013, 02:17:32 AM
I'd like to say how proud I am of this conversation & how we haven't broken any rules in 5 pages, including the rule on titles! 
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Asteriktos on February 12, 2013, 02:21:36 AM
Tough, I heard that he was a proponent of liberal beliefs ( as head of the Pontifical council for Justice and Peace they recently issued a statement calling for world currency and government).  As a European American I'm proud of my culture,  religion,  and heritage and wish to see those things preservfor posterity.  If that's not PC to some people, then too bad.  I'm not a very PC person and make no bones about it. People of all races and colors are welcome in the Big Ten of the Roman Church, But people like myself would like to see that shirt continue to be becenter in Europe and certainly not become the religious equivalent to the Obama administration and all its policies.

You heard "rumors" about some guy whose name you aren't sure of. How can I argue with such overwhelming evidence?
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: dzheremi on February 12, 2013, 02:22:57 AM
I hope that its not that African Cardinal ( Peter Tongo something)
I heard rumors that he might be an Afro Marxist eho would either favor third world nations over the desperately needed re evangelization of European nations.  He could also try to liberalize or Africanize the RC liturgy and theology / morality.  We need to reme.mber as Belloc said Europe is the faith and vis a versa. Other nations have the place but we should always take care of our mother first

"Africa is great and all, but seriously guys, a white guy said something last century that I think completely trumps reality, so let's all focus on that."

Europe is the faith, my behind. Haven't seen Mass attendance rates in Europe at any point in the last decade or so I take it, Robb? They're not great (http://www.boston.com/news/world/articles/2005/05/02/catholic_church_withers_in_europe/?page=full), and hardly likely to improve.

Oddly enough, all indications point to African priests re-evangelizing the West (http://www.leffortcamerounais.com/2011/06/african-priests-heed-calls-to-re-evangelise-the-west.html), in direct contradiction of your unfounded idea that the African Catholic Church would place the needs of third world countries ahead of those of Europe (that they're doing the opposite, in fact, when they could very easily make the case that they need to tend to in-country needs is, frankly, amazing and highly commendable; when was the last time you went to Africa to serve the RCC faithful there?). Unless you think that Africans are too stupid to walk and chew gum at the same time, I don't see how such a ridiculous, insulting string of thoughts could ever enter your mind.

I hope you get a chance to meet some African Catholics some day, Robb. Many put the average Anglo/Euro-Catholic to shame in the strength of their devotions.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Maria on February 12, 2013, 02:30:29 AM
Urgh!

The weirdo show, Coast to Coast, will discuss this entire matter tonight, especially the Malachi prophecies.
Lord have mercy.

Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Sieur_Mglcamo on February 12, 2013, 02:57:57 AM
In his own words: The Pope's resignation

"After having repeatedly examined my conscience before God, I have come to the certainty that my strengths, due to an advanced age, are no longer suited to an adequate exercise of the Petrine ministry,"

"In order to govern the bark of Saint Peter and proclaim the Gospel, both strength of mind and body are necessary, strength which in the last few months, has deteriorated in me to the extent that I have had to recognise my incapacity to adequately fulfill the ministry entrusted to me,"
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Maximum Bob on February 12, 2013, 03:03:28 AM
In his own words: The Pope's resignation

"After having repeatedly examined my conscience before God, I have come to the certainty that my strengths, due to an advanced age, are no longer suited to an adequate exercise of the Petrine ministry,"

"In order to govern the bark of Saint Peter and proclaim the Gospel, both strength of mind and body are necessary, strength which in the last few months, has deteriorated in me to the extent that I have had to recognise my incapacity to adequately fulfill the ministry entrusted to me,"
Seems like admirable reasoning to me. Many years to him.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Maria on February 12, 2013, 03:37:56 AM
In his own words: The Pope's resignation

"After having repeatedly examined my conscience before God, I have come to the certainty that my strengths, due to an advanced age, are no longer suited to an adequate exercise of the Petrine ministry,"

"In order to govern the bark of Saint Peter and proclaim the Gospel, both strength of mind and body are necessary, strength which in the last few months, has deteriorated in me to the extent that I have had to recognise my incapacity to adequately fulfill the ministry entrusted to me,"
Seems like admirable reasoning to me. Many years to him.

Yes, very admirable.

Here is another picture of lightning. He comes in with lightning and leaves with lightning. :)
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Cymbyz on February 12, 2013, 04:10:27 AM
Pope Benedict was Pope John Paul II's right-hand man during the latter's decline.  He got to see up close what it's like when the Pope goes effectively non-functional; he didn't want to burden the Church and the world with a repeat of that.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Santagranddad on February 12, 2013, 07:58:43 AM
At 85 years of age and health declining anyone is entitled to resign, surely?
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Peter J on February 12, 2013, 08:05:39 AM
Let the betting begin:

"Ladbrokes yesterday made Cardinal Turkson the 5/2 favourite (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/who-willl-be-the-next-pope-odds-1704391) to replace Pope Benedict XVI. Cardinal Marc Ouellet was given a 3/1 chance and third favourite Cardinal Francis Arinze was 4/1.

If I were a betting man ...

If that's accurate, then there's a 1-in-60 chance that none of those three will be elected.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Peter J on February 12, 2013, 08:07:58 AM
Have you shed your own liberal tendencies?

Tough, I heard that he was a proponent of liberal beliefs ( as head of the Pontifical council for Justice and Peace they recently issued a statement calling for world currency and government).  As a European American I'm proud of my culture,  religion,  and heritage and wish to see those things preservfor posterity.  If that's not PC to some people, then too bad.  I'm not a very PC person and make no bones about it. People of all races and colors are welcome in the Big Ten of the Roman Church, But people like myself would like to see that shirt continue to be becenter in Europe and certainly not become the religious equivalent to the Obama administration and all its policies.
I hope that its not that African Cardinal ( Peter Tongo something)
I heard rumors that he might be an Afro Marxist eho would either favor third world nations over the desperately needed re evangelization of European nations.  He could also try to liberalize or Africanize the RC liturgy and theology / morality.  We need to reme.mber as Belloc said Europe is the faith and vis a versa. Other nations have the place but we should always take care of our mother first

You disgust me.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Balthasar on February 12, 2013, 09:03:36 AM

Wooow! ??? A Roman Catholic Pope gets more attention in an Orthodox forum than Orthodox church leaders. What could be the reason?  ::)

Anyways, just before the beginning of the 2nd World War, fascist Italy carried out a systematic mass extermination campaign in Ethiopia with poison gas sprayed from airplanes and other horrific atrocities that claimed the lives of no less than 1,000,000 Ethiopian men, women and children, including the entire monastic community at the historic Debre Libanos Monastery ...from that time until now, no fascist Italian has ever been held accountable for the genocide of the Ethiopian people from 1935-1941, nor has the Vatican ever apologized for its complicity which are conveyed by Pope Pius XI's support of Mussolini's "civilizing mission" in Ethiopia: The Holy Father remained "conspicuously silent" while Vatican clergy blessed fascist military troops, and their weapons, before they departed to carryout Mussolini's "civilizing mission" in Ethiopia.

Do you know that a Catholic Pope never visited one of the oldest Christian nations, Ethiopia?



Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: ialmisry on February 12, 2013, 09:26:31 AM
I hope that its not that African Cardinal ( Peter Tongo something)
I heard rumors that he might be an Afro Marxist eho would either favor third world nations over the desperately needed re evangelization of European nations.  He could also try to liberalize or Africanize the RC liturgy and theology / morality.  We need to reme.mber as Belloc said Europe is the faith and vis a versa. Other nations have the place but we should always take care of our mother first

they haven't elected a bishop of Rome for some time.  It's been an election for "supreme pontiff," in which Italy is just another province.

Maybe he can stay on as archbishop of Rome for the Vatican, and let them elect a different "supreme pontiff."
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: ialmisry on February 12, 2013, 09:28:24 AM
I hope that its not that African Cardinal ( Peter Tongo something)
I heard rumors that he might be an Afro Marxist eho would either favor third world nations over the desperately needed re evangelization of European nations.  He could also try to liberalize or Africanize the RC liturgy and theology / morality.  We need to reme.mber as Belloc said Europe is the faith and vis a versa. Other nations have the place but we should always take care of our mother first

"Africa is great and all, but seriously guys, a white guy said something last century that I think completely trumps reality, so let's all focus on that."

Europe is the faith, my behind. Haven't seen Mass attendance rates in Europe at any point in the last decade or so I take it, Robb? They're not great (http://www.boston.com/news/world/articles/2005/05/02/catholic_church_withers_in_europe/?page=full), and hardly likely to improve.

Oddly enough, all indications point to African priests re-evangelizing the West (http://www.leffortcamerounais.com/2011/06/african-priests-heed-calls-to-re-evangelise-the-west.html), in direct contradiction of your unfounded idea that the African Catholic Church would place the needs of third world countries ahead of those of Europe (that they're doing the opposite, in fact, when they could very easily make the case that they need to tend to in-country needs is, frankly, amazing and highly commendable; when was the last time you went to Africa to serve the RCC faithful there?). Unless you think that Africans are too stupid to walk and chew gum at the same time, I don't see how such a ridiculous, insulting string of thoughts could ever enter your mind.

I hope you get a chance to meet some African Catholics some day, Robb. Many put the average Anglo/Euro-Catholic to shame in the strength of their devotions.
Btw, it was the first African archbishop of Rome, St. Victor I, who introduced the Latin mass to Rome.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Ansgar on February 12, 2013, 09:32:26 AM

Wooow! ??? A Roman Catholic Pope gets more attention in an Orthodox forum than Orthodox church leaders. What could be the reason?  ::)

Anyways, just before the beginning of the 2nd World War, fascist Italy carried out a systematic mass extermination campaign in Ethiopia with poison gas sprayed from airplanes and other horrific atrocities that claimed the lives of no less than 1,000,000 Ethiopian men, women and children, including the entire monastic community at the historic Debre Libanos Monastery ...from that time until now, no fascist Italian has ever been held accountable for the genocide of the Ethiopian people from 1935-1941, nor has the Vatican ever apologized for its complicity which are conveyed by Pope Pius XI's support of Mussolini's "civilizing mission" in Ethiopia: The Holy Father remained "conspicuously silent" while Vatican clergy blessed fascist military troops, and their weapons, before they departed to carryout Mussolini's "civilizing mission" in Ethiopia.

Do you know that a Catholic Pope never visited one of the oldest Christian nations, Ethiopia?




You never miss a chance, do you?
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: biro on February 12, 2013, 10:19:41 AM
No fascist Italian has ever been held responsible?

Mussolini was strung up by his toes. Not exactly getting out of it lightly.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: TheMathematician on February 12, 2013, 10:24:16 AM
I hope that its not that African Cardinal ( Peter Tongo something)
I heard rumors that he might be an Afro Marxist eho would either favor third world nations over the desperately needed re evangelization of European nations.  He could also try to liberalize or Africanize the RC liturgy and theology / morality.  We need to reme.mber as Belloc said Europe is the faith and vis a versa. Other nations have the place but we should always take care of our mother first

they haven't elected a bishop of Rome for some time.  It's been an election for "supreme pontiff," in which Italy is just another province.

Maybe he can stay on as archbishop of Rome for the Vatican, and let them elect a different "supreme pontiff."
There is no Archbishop of Rome, because the leader of the Diocese of Rome is entitled the Bishop of Rome, of which the office of the Pope is the same.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: ialmisry on February 12, 2013, 10:29:09 AM
I hope that its not that African Cardinal ( Peter Tongo something)
I heard rumors that he might be an Afro Marxist eho would either favor third world nations over the desperately needed re evangelization of European nations.  He could also try to liberalize or Africanize the RC liturgy and theology / morality.  We need to reme.mber as Belloc said Europe is the faith and vis a versa. Other nations have the place but we should always take care of our mother first

they haven't elected a bishop of Rome for some time.  It's been an election for "supreme pontiff," in which Italy is just another province.

Maybe he can stay on as archbishop of Rome for the Vatican, and let them elect a different "supreme pontiff."
There is no Archbishop of Rome, because the leader of the Diocese of Rome is entitled the Bishop of Rome, of which the office of the Pope is the same.
this is the bishop of Rome
(http://www.doxologia.ro/sites/default/files/imagecache/imagine_600_width/articol/2012/07/ps_siluan_2.jpg)

As for the Vatican hierarchy, I am aware that the archbishoprick of Rome has been abolished, like the Patriarchate of the West, in favor of the "supreme pontiff."
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: mike on February 12, 2013, 10:33:29 AM
I hope that its not that African Cardinal ( Peter Tongo something)
I heard rumors that he might be an Afro Marxist eho would either favor third world nations over the desperately needed re evangelization of European nations.  He could also try to liberalize or Africanize the RC liturgy and theology / morality.  We need to reme.mber as Belloc said Europe is the faith and vis a versa. Other nations have the place but we should always take care of our mother first

they haven't elected a bishop of Rome for some time.  It's been an election for "supreme pontiff," in which Italy is just another province.

Maybe he can stay on as archbishop of Rome for the Vatican, and let them elect a different "supreme pontiff."
There is no Archbishop of Rome, because the leader of the Diocese of Rome is entitled the Bishop of Rome, of which the office of the Pope is the same.
this is the bishop of Rome
(http://www.doxologia.ro/sites/default/files/imagecache/imagine_600_width/articol/2012/07/ps_siluan_2.jpg)

No, he is not.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: TheMathematician on February 12, 2013, 10:35:28 AM
I hope that its not that African Cardinal ( Peter Tongo something)
I heard rumors that he might be an Afro Marxist eho would either favor third world nations over the desperately needed re evangelization of European nations.  He could also try to liberalize or Africanize the RC liturgy and theology / morality.  We need to reme.mber as Belloc said Europe is the faith and vis a versa. Other nations have the place but we should always take care of our mother first

they haven't elected a bishop of Rome for some time.  It's been an election for "supreme pontiff," in which Italy is just another province.

Maybe he can stay on as archbishop of Rome for the Vatican, and let them elect a different "supreme pontiff."
There is no Archbishop of Rome, because the leader of the Diocese of Rome is entitled the Bishop of Rome, of which the office of the Pope is the same.
this is the bishop of Rome
(http://www.doxologia.ro/sites/default/files/imagecache/imagine_600_width/articol/2012/07/ps_siluan_2.jpg)

As for the Vatican hierarchy, I am aware that the archbishoprick of Rome has been abolished, like the Patriarchate of the West, in favor of the "supreme pontiff."

I'm not even going to argue your semantics game, but that diocese has always just been that, a diocese, not an archdiocese.

(And to argue your point, that is the Metropolitian of Italy, not Rome)
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Jetavan on February 12, 2013, 10:37:57 AM
"(Reuters) - Pope Benedict had a heart (http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/02/12/us-pope-resignation-pacemaker-idUSBRE91B0ND20130212) pacemaker installed some time ago but was not suffering from poor health and remained lucid and serene in the wake of his decision to resign, the Vatican spokesman said on Tuesday."


Sursum corda.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Papist on February 12, 2013, 10:39:52 AM
I hope that its not that African Cardinal ( Peter Tongo something)
I heard rumors that he might be an Afro Marxist eho would either favor third world nations over the desperately needed re evangelization of European nations.  He could also try to liberalize or Africanize the RC liturgy and theology / morality.  We need to reme.mber as Belloc said Europe is the faith and vis a versa. Other nations have the place but we should always take care of our mother first

"Africa is great and all, but seriously guys, a white guy said something last century that I think completely trumps reality, so let's all focus on that."

Europe is the faith, my behind. Haven't seen Mass attendance rates in Europe at any point in the last decade or so I take it, Robb? They're not great (http://www.boston.com/news/world/articles/2005/05/02/catholic_church_withers_in_europe/?page=full), and hardly likely to improve.

Oddly enough, all indications point to African priests re-evangelizing the West (http://www.leffortcamerounais.com/2011/06/african-priests-heed-calls-to-re-evangelise-the-west.html), in direct contradiction of your unfounded idea that the African Catholic Church would place the needs of third world countries ahead of those of Europe (that they're doing the opposite, in fact, when they could very easily make the case that they need to tend to in-country needs is, frankly, amazing and highly commendable; when was the last time you went to Africa to serve the RCC faithful there?). Unless you think that Africans are too stupid to walk and chew gum at the same time, I don't see how such a ridiculous, insulting string of thoughts could ever enter your mind.

I hope you get a chance to meet some African Catholics some day, Robb. Many put the average Anglo/Euro-Catholic to shame in the strength of their devotions.
We have a priest from Uganda at my parish right now. He is probably one the holiest priests I have met.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: J Michael on February 12, 2013, 10:40:17 AM
Amongst all the jokes and wishful thinking and speculation, I'm surprised no one has mentioned this, yet. ;)

Metropolitan Hilarion of Volokolamsk comments on reports about Pope
Benedict XVI’s retirement:

Quote
Reports about the retirement of Pope Benedict XVI have proved to be unexpected even for his closest associates. Cardinal Sodano described it as ‘a thunder out of a clear sky’. Really, there have been no precedents of this kind in the modern history of the Roman Catholic Church. Pope John Paul II remained in office to the end despite his serious health problems.

Meanwhile, the office of the Roman Pontiff, just as that of any head of a Church, presupposes active work. It is not a ceremonial office. If one’s age and health prove to be an obstacle for effective work, the head of a Church may decide to retire. In recent years, the Catholic Church has come to face very serious challenges which require new incentives to come from the See of Rome. Perhaps, precisely this has made the pope to give way to a younger and more dynamic prelate to be elected by the conclave of cardinals. The Pope Benedict XVI’s decision to leave his office in the present situation may be seen as an act of personal courage and humbleness.
Full article here: http://www.pravoslavie.ru/english/59407.htm
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Balthasar on February 12, 2013, 10:40:38 AM
No fascist Italian has ever been held responsible?

Mussolini was strung up by his toes. Not exactly getting out of it lightly.

You mean, the Mussolini who has been praised by the former Italian PM, Berlusconi as "good leader"?

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/28/world/europe/berlusconi-praises-mussolini-as-good-leader.html?_r=0

Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: TheMathematician on February 12, 2013, 10:41:18 AM
When he eventually dies, will he be given the burial fitting of a pope, or reflecting his state at this death?
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: biro on February 12, 2013, 10:42:56 AM
Balthazar- So what?

What does Berlusconi have to do with the Second World War?

Again, Mussolini is dead and the war is over. What are you talking about?
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Jetavan on February 12, 2013, 10:46:12 AM
When he eventually dies, will he be given the burial fitting of a pope, or reflecting his state at this death?
The former, I suspect and hope.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Ansgar on February 12, 2013, 10:47:11 AM
No fascist Italian has ever been held responsible?

Mussolini was strung up by his toes. Not exactly getting out of it lightly.

You mean, the Mussolini who has been praised by the former Italian PM, Berlusconi as "good leader"?

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/28/world/europe/berlusconi-praises-mussolini-as-good-leader.html?_r=0



I must confess, I fail to see your point.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: J Michael on February 12, 2013, 10:50:32 AM
No fascist Italian has ever been held responsible?

Mussolini was strung up by his toes. Not exactly getting out of it lightly.

You mean, the Mussolini who has been praised by the former Italian PM, Berlusconi as "good leader"?

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/28/world/europe/berlusconi-praises-mussolini-as-good-leader.html?_r=0



I must confess, I fail to see your point.

This, perhaps?
(http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/ProductImages/tormek/SVA170.jpg)
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Shanghaiski on February 12, 2013, 10:55:31 AM
I'd like to see a pope come from an Arab land like Lebanon, Palestine, Syria, or such places. 

I wonder how the Russian Orthodox Church would feel if His Beatitude Sviatoslav of the Ukrainian Catholics become Pope.

Wouldn't happen for several reasons, but if it did, it still wouldn't happen due to many interesting forms of highly radioactive isotopes.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: J Michael on February 12, 2013, 10:56:56 AM
I'd like to see a pope come from an Arab land like Lebanon, Palestine, Syria, or such places. 

I wonder how the Russian Orthodox Church would feel if His Beatitude Sviatoslav of the Ukrainian Catholics become Pope.

Wouldn't happen for several reasons, but if it did, it still wouldn't happen due to many interesting forms of highly radioactive isotopes.

So, what you're saying is, even if it did happen it wouldn't happen?   ;D ;D
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Schultz on February 12, 2013, 10:57:19 AM
No fascist Italian has ever been held responsible?

Mussolini was strung up by his toes. Not exactly getting out of it lightly.

You mean, the Mussolini who has been praised by the former Italian PM, Berlusconi as "good leader"?

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/28/world/europe/berlusconi-praises-mussolini-as-good-leader.html?_r=0



And he was castigated by the Italian media (and people) for his comment.

He's also awaiting trial for schtupping an underage stripper.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: ialmisry on February 12, 2013, 10:59:23 AM
I hope that its not that African Cardinal ( Peter Tongo something)
I heard rumors that he might be an Afro Marxist eho would either favor third world nations over the desperately needed re evangelization of European nations.  He could also try to liberalize or Africanize the RC liturgy and theology / morality.  We need to reme.mber as Belloc said Europe is the faith and vis a versa. Other nations have the place but we should always take care of our mother first

they haven't elected a bishop of Rome for some time.  It's been an election for "supreme pontiff," in which Italy is just another province.

Maybe he can stay on as archbishop of Rome for the Vatican, and let them elect a different "supreme pontiff."
There is no Archbishop of Rome, because the leader of the Diocese of Rome is entitled the Bishop of Rome, of which the office of the Pope is the same.
this is the bishop of Rome
(http://www.doxologia.ro/sites/default/files/imagecache/imagine_600_width/articol/2012/07/ps_siluan_2.jpg)

No, he is not.
According to the Sacred Canons of the Orthodox Church and the Statute of the Romanian Orthodox Patriarchate, yes, he is.

I'm not even going to argue your semantics game, but that diocese has always just been that, a diocese, not an archdiocese.
Not according to the Acts of the Ecumenical Councils, and the Orthodox practice of the Catholic Church.
(And to argue your point, that is the Metropolitian of Italy, not Rome)
According to the Sacred Canons of the Orthodox Church and the Statute of the Romanian Orthodox Patriarchate, no, he is not.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: age234 on February 12, 2013, 11:00:47 AM
OK so:

Quote
Statement by His All-Holiness Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew
At the Announcement of the Retirement of Benedict XVI, Pope of Rome
(February 11, 2013)

It is with regret that we have learned of the decision by His Holiness Pope Benedict to retire from his Throne, because with his wisdom and experience he could have provided much more to the Church and the world.

(...)

From the Phanar, we pray that the Lord will manifest his worthy successor as the head of the sister Church of Rome, and that we may also continue with this successor on our common journey toward the unity of all unto the glory of God.

Not sure what to make of the part in bold. That's not precisely how I would choose to word it. I mean, we can be respectful and wish him well, but this is a bit too much IMO.

link: http://www.goarch.org/news/epbartholomew-benedict-02112013

post editted for our copyright policy (http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,13455.msg456852.html#msg456852) - MK
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: ialmisry on February 12, 2013, 11:03:25 AM
When he eventually dies, will he be given the burial fitting of a pope, or reflecting his state at this death?
The former, I suspect and hope.
Someone with a degree in their canon law said it would be the former.  After all, at the funeral, they are are all former popes, whether they died in office or not.  Perhaps symbolic of that, they used to make it official that the pope had died by hitting him on the head with a silver hammer and calling his baptismal-not regnal-name.  If he didn't answer after the third knock, the see officially became sede vacante.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: J Michael on February 12, 2013, 11:04:02 AM
OK so:

Quote
Statement by His All-Holiness Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew
At the Announcement of the Retirement of Benedict XVI, Pope of Rome
(February 11, 2013)

It is with regret that we have learned of the decision by His Holiness Pope Benedict to retire from his Throne, because with his wisdom and experience he could have provided much more to the Church and the world.

(...)

From the Phanar, we pray that the Lord will manifest his worthy successor as the head of the sister Church of Rome, and that we may also continue with this successor on our common journey toward the unity of all unto the glory of God.

Not sure what to make of the part in bold. That's not precisely how I would choose to word it. I mean, we can be respectful and wish him well, but this is a bit too much IMO.

link: http://www.goarch.org/news/epbartholomew-benedict-02112013

post editted for our copyright policy (http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,13455.msg456852.html#msg456852) - MK



Maybe that's why you're not the Patriarch and His All-Holiness Bartholomew is  ;D.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: mike on February 12, 2013, 11:14:21 AM
OK so:

Quote
Statement by His All-Holiness Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew
At the Announcement of the Retirement of Benedict XVI, Pope of Rome
(February 11, 2013)

It is with regret that we have learned of the decision by His Holiness Pope Benedict to retire from his Throne, because with his wisdom and experience he could have provided much more to the Church and the world.

(...)

From the Phanar, we pray that the Lord will manifest his worthy successor as the head of the sister Church of Rome, and that we may also continue with this successor on our common journey toward the unity of all unto the glory of God.

Not sure what to make of the part in bold. That's not precisely how I would choose to word it. I mean, we can be respectful and wish him well, but this is a bit too much IMO.

link: http://www.goarch.org/news/epbartholomew-benedict-02112013

post editted for our copyright policy (http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,13455.msg456852.html#msg456852) - MK

Where did you copy that from?
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: mike on February 12, 2013, 11:15:19 AM
According to the Sacred Canons of the Orthodox Church and the Statute of the Romanian Orthodox Patriarchate, yes, he is.

We were discussing that a few times and every time you failed to prove your claims.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: age234 on February 12, 2013, 11:21:00 AM
OK so:

Quote
Statement by His All-Holiness Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew
At the Announcement of the Retirement of Benedict XVI, Pope of Rome
(February 11, 2013)

It is with regret that we have learned of the decision by His Holiness Pope Benedict to retire from his Throne, because with his wisdom and experience he could have provided much more to the Church and the world.

(...)

From the Phanar, we pray that the Lord will manifest his worthy successor as the head of the sister Church of Rome, and that we may also continue with this successor on our common journey toward the unity of all unto the glory of God.

Not sure what to make of the part in bold. That's not precisely how I would choose to word it. I mean, we can be respectful and wish him well, but this is a bit too much IMO.

link: http://www.goarch.org/news/epbartholomew-benedict-02112013

post editted for our copyright policy (http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,13455.msg456852.html#msg456852) - MK

Where did you copy that from?

An email sent from the GOARCH press office to their email subscribers.

[edit] link: http://www.goarch.org/news/epbartholomew-benedict-02112013
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: ialmisry on February 12, 2013, 11:21:53 AM
According to the Sacred Canons of the Orthodox Church and the Statute of the Romanian Orthodox Patriarchate, yes, he is.

We were discussing that a few times and every time you failed to prove your claims.
I posted the relevant Canons, Constitution, and Statute.  Their claims speak for themselves. And us.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Shanghaiski on February 12, 2013, 11:23:19 AM

Wooow! ??? A Roman Catholic Pope gets more attention in an Orthodox forum than Orthodox church leaders. What could be the reason?  ::)

Anyways, just before the beginning of the 2nd World War, fascist Italy carried out a systematic mass extermination campaign in Ethiopia with poison gas sprayed from airplanes and other horrific atrocities that claimed the lives of no less than 1,000,000 Ethiopian men, women and children, including the entire monastic community at the historic Debre Libanos Monastery ...from that time until now, no fascist Italian has ever been held accountable for the genocide of the Ethiopian people from 1935-1941, nor has the Vatican ever apologized for its complicity which are conveyed by Pope Pius XI's support of Mussolini's "civilizing mission" in Ethiopia: The Holy Father remained "conspicuously silent" while Vatican clergy blessed fascist military troops, and their weapons, before they departed to carryout Mussolini's "civilizing mission" in Ethiopia.

Do you know that a Catholic Pope never visited one of the oldest Christian nations, Ethiopia?




You never miss a chance, do you?

He never visited Ethiopia, but he sent his Portuguese henchmen to make converts.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Ansgar on February 12, 2013, 11:38:32 AM

Wooow! ??? A Roman Catholic Pope gets more attention in an Orthodox forum than Orthodox church leaders. What could be the reason?  ::)

Anyways, just before the beginning of the 2nd World War, fascist Italy carried out a systematic mass extermination campaign in Ethiopia with poison gas sprayed from airplanes and other horrific atrocities that claimed the lives of no less than 1,000,000 Ethiopian men, women and children, including the entire monastic community at the historic Debre Libanos Monastery ...from that time until now, no fascist Italian has ever been held accountable for the genocide of the Ethiopian people from 1935-1941, nor has the Vatican ever apologized for its complicity which are conveyed by Pope Pius XI's support of Mussolini's "civilizing mission" in Ethiopia: The Holy Father remained "conspicuously silent" while Vatican clergy blessed fascist military troops, and their weapons, before they departed to carryout Mussolini's "civilizing mission" in Ethiopia.

Do you know that a Catholic Pope never visited one of the oldest Christian nations, Ethiopia?




You never miss a chance, do you?

He never visited Ethiopia, but he sent his Portuguese henchmen to make converts.
Yes, but that wasn't my point. I just don't understand, why he had to make a post that has absolutely nothing to do with this thread.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: J Michael on February 12, 2013, 11:44:52 AM

Wooow! ??? A Roman Catholic Pope gets more attention in an Orthodox forum than Orthodox church leaders. What could be the reason?  ::)

Anyways, just before the beginning of the 2nd World War, fascist Italy carried out a systematic mass extermination campaign in Ethiopia with poison gas sprayed from airplanes and other horrific atrocities that claimed the lives of no less than 1,000,000 Ethiopian men, women and children, including the entire monastic community at the historic Debre Libanos Monastery ...from that time until now, no fascist Italian has ever been held accountable for the genocide of the Ethiopian people from 1935-1941, nor has the Vatican ever apologized for its complicity which are conveyed by Pope Pius XI's support of Mussolini's "civilizing mission" in Ethiopia: The Holy Father remained "conspicuously silent" while Vatican clergy blessed fascist military troops, and their weapons, before they departed to carryout Mussolini's "civilizing mission" in Ethiopia.

Do you know that a Catholic Pope never visited one of the oldest Christian nations, Ethiopia?




You never miss a chance, do you?

He never visited Ethiopia, but he sent his Portuguese henchmen to make converts.
Yes, but that wasn't my point. I just don't understand, why he had to make a post that has absolutely nothing to do with this thread.

Hey, it was *bound* to happen eventually  :angel:. 
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Cyrillic on February 12, 2013, 11:47:15 AM
I hope Pope Benedict will write a more in-depth book on the Church Fathers than the one that he already wrote about the subject now that he has some free time. I liked the first one but would like to see a bigger one.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: mike on February 12, 2013, 11:51:25 AM
An email sent from the GOARCH press office to their email subscribers.

[edit] link: http://www.goarch.org/news/epbartholomew-benedict-02112013

Thank you. I ask you to observe our copyright policy (http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,13455.msg456852.html#msg456852) next time.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: mike on February 12, 2013, 11:59:54 AM
According to the Sacred Canons of the Orthodox Church and the Statute of the Romanian Orthodox Patriarchate, yes, he is.

We were discussing that a few times and every time you failed to prove your claims.
I posted the relevant Canons, Constitution, and Statute.  Their claims speak for themselves. And us.

Apparently, you are mistaken.

" His Grace SILUAN ŞPAN, Bishop of the Romanian Orthodox Diocese for Italy"

"Preasfintitul Părinte SILUAN, Episcopul Ortodox Român al Italiei "


http://www.patriarhia.ro/en/roc_structure/mseuropesynod.html

http://www.patriarhia.ro/ro/structura_bor/mitr_meridionale.html
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Jetavan on February 12, 2013, 12:01:31 PM
Does the Pope's resignation reflect a more Western, CEO model of ministry, as compared to the Orthodox, more 'fatherly', model of ministry?
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Shanghaiski on February 12, 2013, 12:04:14 PM

Wooow! ??? A Roman Catholic Pope gets more attention in an Orthodox forum than Orthodox church leaders. What could be the reason?  ::)

Anyways, just before the beginning of the 2nd World War, fascist Italy carried out a systematic mass extermination campaign in Ethiopia with poison gas sprayed from airplanes and other horrific atrocities that claimed the lives of no less than 1,000,000 Ethiopian men, women and children, including the entire monastic community at the historic Debre Libanos Monastery ...from that time until now, no fascist Italian has ever been held accountable for the genocide of the Ethiopian people from 1935-1941, nor has the Vatican ever apologized for its complicity which are conveyed by Pope Pius XI's support of Mussolini's "civilizing mission" in Ethiopia: The Holy Father remained "conspicuously silent" while Vatican clergy blessed fascist military troops, and their weapons, before they departed to carryout Mussolini's "civilizing mission" in Ethiopia.

Do you know that a Catholic Pope never visited one of the oldest Christian nations, Ethiopia?




You never miss a chance, do you?

He never visited Ethiopia, but he sent his Portuguese henchmen to make converts.
Yes, but that wasn't my point. I just don't understand, why he had to make a post that has absolutely nothing to do with this thread.

I don't know. It's rare for that to happen here.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: J Michael on February 12, 2013, 12:07:28 PM
Does the Pope's resignation reflect a more Western, CEO model of ministry, as compared to the Orthodox, more 'fatherly', model of ministry?

Why would it?
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Papist on February 12, 2013, 12:08:20 PM
Does the Pope's resignation reflect a more Western, CEO model of ministry, as compared to the Orthodox, more 'fatherly', model of ministry?

Why would it?
Because then that would reflect badly on Catholics, which is always a good thing.  ;D
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Shanghaiski on February 12, 2013, 12:13:45 PM
Does the Pope's resignation reflect a more Western, CEO model of ministry, as compared to the Orthodox, more 'fatherly', model of ministry?

Not the resignation itself.

Besides, there must be plenty of Eastern Orthodox patriarchs who have resigned.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Jetavan on February 12, 2013, 12:14:30 PM
Does the Pope's resignation reflect a more Western, CEO model of ministry, as compared to the Orthodox, more 'fatherly', model of ministry?

Why would it?
In other words, does Orthodoxy see it as part of its tradition, the idea that patriarchs or bishops can resign voluntarily?
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: mike on February 12, 2013, 12:18:14 PM
Does the Pope's resignation reflect a more Western, CEO model of ministry, as compared to the Orthodox, more 'fatherly', model of ministry?

Why would it?
In other words, does Orthodoxy see it as part of its tradition, the idea that patriarchs or bishops can resign voluntarily?

They can and did.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: J Michael on February 12, 2013, 12:20:23 PM
Does the Pope's resignation reflect a more Western, CEO model of ministry, as compared to the Orthodox, more 'fatherly', model of ministry?

Why would it?
In other words, does Orthodoxy see it as part of its tradition, the idea that patriarchs or bishops can resign voluntarily?


They can and did.

Anyone in particular come to mind?
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: mike on February 12, 2013, 12:23:17 PM
Does the Pope's resignation reflect a more Western, CEO model of ministry, as compared to the Orthodox, more 'fatherly', model of ministry?

Why would it?
In other words, does Orthodoxy see it as part of its tradition, the idea that patriarchs or bishops can resign voluntarily?


They can and did.

Anyone in particular come to mind?

Metropolitan Jonah? To name the most recent one...
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Santagranddad on February 12, 2013, 12:25:39 PM
Come 1st March, 2013, the will come a great leveller among Catholics as they are all reduced to membership of the 'sede vacante' club.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Santagranddad on February 12, 2013, 12:36:23 PM
I hope that its not that African Cardinal ( Peter Tongo something)
I heard rumors that he might be an Afro Marxist eho would either favor third world nations over the desperately needed re evangelization of European nations.  He could also try to liberalize or Africanize the RC liturgy and theology / morality.  We need to reme.mber as Belloc said Europe is the faith and vis a versa. Other nations have the place but we should always take care of our mother first

they haven't elected a bishop of Rome for some time.  It's been an election for "supreme pontiff," in which Italy is just another province.

Maybe he can stay on as archbishop of Rome for the Vatican, and let them elect a different "supreme pontiff."
There is no Archbishop of Rome, because the leader of the Diocese of Rome is entitled the Bishop of Rome, of which the office of the Pope is the same.
this is the bishop of Rome
(http://www.doxologia.ro/sites/default/files/imagecache/imagine_600_width/articol/2012/07/ps_siluan_2.jpg)

As for the Vatican hierarchy, I am aware that the archbishoprick of Rome has been abolished, like the Patriarchate of the West, in favor of the "supreme pontiff."

I'm not even going to argue your semantics game, but that diocese has always just been that, a diocese, not an archdiocese.

(And to argue your point, that is the Metropolitian of Italy, not Rome)

Oh dear, I was beginning wonder if this was pantomime and when were we due to shout, "he's behind you!"

Seriously, since when can the Romanians simply parachute someone in and 'take' over or claim back the See. And even more odd that such a pretence, if indeed that were ever the Romanians intent, should come from the ecumenist Romanian Patriarchate.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: J Michael on February 12, 2013, 12:42:19 PM
Does the Pope's resignation reflect a more Western, CEO model of ministry, as compared to the Orthodox, more 'fatherly', model of ministry?

Why would it?
In other words, does Orthodoxy see it as part of its tradition, the idea that patriarchs or bishops can resign voluntarily?


They can and did.

Anyone in particular come to mind?

Metropolitan Jonah? To name the most recent one...

Indeed.  I'd forgotten.  Thanks!
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: age234 on February 12, 2013, 12:43:07 PM
An email sent from the GOARCH press office to their email subscribers.

[edit] link: http://www.goarch.org/news/epbartholomew-benedict-02112013

Thank you. I ask you to observe our copyright policy (http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,13455.msg456852.html#msg456852) next time.

Will do. At the time I posted I didn't realize it was also on their website, so I wanted to provide context since it was an email. I'll check their website first next time.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: J Michael on February 12, 2013, 12:44:12 PM
Come 1st March, 2013, the will come a great leveller among Catholics as they are all reduced to membership of the 'sede vacante' club.

We'll be just fine  ;).
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: age234 on February 12, 2013, 12:45:14 PM
Let the betting begin:

"Ladbrokes yesterday made Cardinal Turkson the 5/2 favourite (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/who-willl-be-the-next-pope-odds-1704391) to replace Pope Benedict XVI.

Cardinal Turkson, as in Cardinal Peter Turkson?

> Inb4 Peter the Roman and the end of the world.

 ;D
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Cyrillic on February 12, 2013, 01:04:07 PM
Isn't it strange that there's never been an American Pope? There's even been a Dutch one.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: J Michael on February 12, 2013, 01:06:29 PM
Isn't it strange that there's never been an American Pope?

Not really.

There's never been a Pope from Ireland.  Or anywhere in Latin America.  Or Australia/New Zealand.  Or anywhere in the Far East.  Or.......
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Santagranddad on February 12, 2013, 01:08:15 PM
I'm trying to imagine one from Texas!
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Cyrillic on February 12, 2013, 01:08:38 PM
Isn't it strange that there's never been an American Pope?

Not really.

American churchmen aren't pious or devious enough?
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: J Michael on February 12, 2013, 01:09:49 PM
Isn't it strange that there's never been an American Pope?

Not really.

American churchmen aren't pious or devious enough?

See my edit above.

I never said or implied either.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: J Michael on February 12, 2013, 01:10:43 PM
I'm trying to imagine one from Texas!

Better there than from Illinois  ;D ;D.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: J Michael on February 12, 2013, 01:14:21 PM
Isn't it strange that there's never been an American Pope? There's even been a Dutch one.


Quote
There have been 217 popes from Italy, 17 from France, 13 from Greece, 8 from Germany, 6 from Syria, 3 from Africa, 2 from Portugal, 2 from Spain, and one each from Galilee (Palestine) (Saint Peter), England (Pope Adrian IV), the Netherlands (Adrian VI) and Poland (John Paul II).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Popes_by_nationality
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Monk Vasyl on February 12, 2013, 01:26:41 PM
I remember a quote from my old RC days..."He who goes in (to conclave) a pope, comes out a cardinal."
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Jetavan on February 12, 2013, 01:26:56 PM
"Msgr. Guido Marini, the Master of Pontifical Liturgical Celebrations (http://ncronline.org/blogs/ncr-today/qa-benedicts-bombshell), told The Associated Press that under the terms of the event's constitution, [the conclave] must be held 15 to 20 days after the period of sede vacanate, or "empty chair," begins Feb. 28. Doing the math, that means the conclave would begin somewhere between Friday, March 15, and Wednesday, March 20.
....
In all honesty, that 15-20 day delay is built into the rules largely to accommodate the circumstances surrounding a papal death, such as the need for cardinals around the world to drop everything and scramble to Rome, as well as allowances for the prescribed period of mourning for the dead pope and the funeral Mass. Since those things aren't required this time, the conclave probably could begin much earlier -- but this is the Vatican, and rules are rules."
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: J Michael on February 12, 2013, 01:30:13 PM
"Msgr. Guido Marini, the Master of Pontifical Liturgical Celebrations (http://ncronline.org/blogs/ncr-today/qa-benedicts-bombshell), told The Associated Press that under the terms of the event's constitution, [the conclave] must be held 15 to 20 days after the period of sede vacanate, or "empty chair," begins Feb. 28. Doing the math, that means the conclave would begin somewhere between Friday, March 15, and Wednesday, March 20.
....
In all honesty, that 15-20 day delay is built into the rules largely to accommodate the circumstances surrounding a papal death, such as the need for cardinals around the world to drop everything and scramble to Rome, as well as allowances for the prescribed period of mourning for the dead pope and the funeral Mass. Since those things aren't required this time, the conclave probably could begin much earlier -- but this is the Vatican, and rules are rules."

Smack in the middle of Great Lent.  Perhaps that is very good timing.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Jetavan on February 12, 2013, 01:32:22 PM
"Msgr. Guido Marini, the Master of Pontifical Liturgical Celebrations (http://ncronline.org/blogs/ncr-today/qa-benedicts-bombshell), told The Associated Press that under the terms of the event's constitution, [the conclave] must be held 15 to 20 days after the period of sede vacanate, or "empty chair," begins Feb. 28. Doing the math, that means the conclave would begin somewhere between Friday, March 15, and Wednesday, March 20.
....
In all honesty, that 15-20 day delay is built into the rules largely to accommodate the circumstances surrounding a papal death, such as the need for cardinals around the world to drop everything and scramble to Rome, as well as allowances for the prescribed period of mourning for the dead pope and the funeral Mass. Since those things aren't required this time, the conclave probably could begin much earlier -- but this is the Vatican, and rules are rules."

Smack in the middle of Great Lent.  Perhaps that is very good timing.
Perhaps in time for the Spring Equinox, March 20.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: biro on February 12, 2013, 01:33:51 PM
At least in the intervening time, we'll get to see lots of pretty footage of the Vatican on EWTN.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: CoptoGeek on February 12, 2013, 01:34:28 PM
Metropolitan Hilarion of Volokolamsk comments on reports about Pope Benedict XVI’s retirement

excerpt:

We are grateful to Pope Benedict XVI for his understanding of the problems which impede the full normalization of Orthodox-Catholic relations, especially in such regions as western Ukraine. Only yesterday I spoke about Pope Benedict XVI in my talk on Russia-24 TV network with the new Russian ambassador to the Holy See, A. A. Avdeyev. I pointed out that relations between the Russian Orthodox Church and the Roman Catholic Church have acquired positive dynamic after his ascension to the See of Rome. He enjoys great respect in the Christian world. He is a prominent theologian, who is well versed in the tradition of the Orthodox Church while having the sensitivity that makes it possible for him to build relations with Orthodox Church on due level.

My personal meetings and talks with Pope Benedict XVI remain memorable for me. There have been three meetings since I was appointed chairman of the DECR. In my talks with the pontiff I was always amazed by his calm and thoughtful reaction, his sensitivity to issues we raised, his desire to solve together the problems arising in our relations. Specifically, I set forth in detail to the pope my vision of the problems we have encountered in pan-Orthodox – Catholic dialogue (I made a report about these problems to the recent Bishops’ Council, and it made appropriate decisions). My attitude to the progress of this dialogue is very critical, which I frankly stated to the pope and he always showed understanding.

Even before his ascension to the See of Rome, Cardinal Ratzinger declared war on ‘the dictatorship of relativism’ so typical for the Western society today. It immediately made him unpopular in the eyes of secular politicians and journalists. Pope Benedict XVI is not a media star. He is a man of the Church. In the mass media, he is continuously criticized for traditionalism and conservatism, but precisely these merits of his are of credit for millions of Christians, both Catholic and non-Catholic, those who seek to preserve traditional Christian spiritual and moral values.

It remains only to hope that his successor will continue walking along the same path and that Orthodox-Catholic relations will continue developing progressively for the common good of the whole Christendom.


http://www.pravmir.com/metropolitan-hilarion-of-volokolamsk-comments-on-reports-about-pope-benedict-xvis-retirement/ (http://www.pravmir.com/metropolitan-hilarion-of-volokolamsk-comments-on-reports-about-pope-benedict-xvis-retirement/)
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Jetavan on February 12, 2013, 01:40:09 PM
This resignation is PBXVI's small, but significant, contribution toward an eventual reunion with the Orthodox. By voluntarily resigning now, he's slowly returning the papacy to a more collegial level, since fellow bishops already have to request retirement at 75. A journey of a thousand miles begins with one step.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: J Michael on February 12, 2013, 01:42:12 PM
This resignation is PBXVI's small, but significant, contribution toward an eventual reunion with the Orthodox. By voluntarily resigning now, he's slowly returning the papacy to a more collegial level, since fellow bishops already have to request retirement at 75. A journey of a thousand miles begins with one step.

Now, that's an interesting take on it!
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Cyrillic on February 12, 2013, 01:44:21 PM

Even before his ascension to the See of Rome, Cardinal Ratzinger declared war on ‘the dictatorship of relativism’ so typical for the Western society today. It immediately made him unpopular in the eyes of secular politicians and journalists. Pope Benedict XVI is not a media star. He is a man of the Church. In the mass media, he is continuously criticized for traditionalism and conservatism, but precisely these merits of his are of credit for millions of Christians, both Catholic and non-Catholic, those who seek to preserve traditional Christian spiritual and moral values.

This quote is beautiful.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: ialmisry on February 12, 2013, 01:58:46 PM
According to the Sacred Canons of the Orthodox Church and the Statute of the Romanian Orthodox Patriarchate, yes, he is.

We were discussing that a few times and every time you failed to prove your claims.
I posted the relevant Canons, Constitution, and Statute.  Their claims speak for themselves. And us.

Apparently, you are mistaken.

" His Grace SILUAN ŞPAN, Bishop of the Romanian Orthodox Diocese for Italy"

"Preasfintitul Părinte SILUAN, Episcopul Ortodox Român al Italiei "


http://www.patriarhia.ro/en/roc_structure/mseuropesynod.html

http://www.patriarhia.ro/ro/structura_bor/mitr_meridionale.html

Quote
ART. 1 – (1) La Chiesa ortodossa romena in Italia
è organizzata come diocesi / eparchia con la titolatura di “Diocesi / Eparchia ortodossa romena
d’Italia” (in seguito la Diocesi), ed ha sede a Roma (Italia).
(2) La Diocesi, dal punto di vista canonico ed amministrativo, è parte della “Metropoli ortodossa romena dell’Europa occidentale e meridionale” (in seguito la  Metropoli), Metropoli che ha sede a Parigi (Francia), e che si trova sotto l’autorità canonica del Santo Sinodo della Chiesa ortodossa romena, che è organizzata come patriarcato con titolatura di “Patriarcato Romeno” e che ha sede a Bucarest (Romania).

ART. 1 – (1) Biserica Ortodoxă Română din Italia este organizată ca eparhie cu titlul de “Episcopia Ortodoxă Română a Italiei” (în continuare Episcopia) și are sediul la Roma (Italia).
(2) Episcopia, din punct de vedere canonic și administrativ, este parte a “Mitropoliei Ortodoxe Române a Europei Occidentale și Meridionale” (în continuare Mitropolia), Mitropolie ce îți [sic] are sediul la Paris (Franța), și se află sub autoritatea canonică a Sfântului Sinod al Bisericii Ortodoxe Române, organizată ca Patriarhie cu titulatura de “Patriarhia Română” și cu sediul la București (România)  

ART. 1 - (1) The Romanian Orthodox Church in Italy is organized as the diocese/eparchy with the title of "Romanian Orthodox Diocese/Bishoprick/Eparchy of Italy" (hereafter the Diocese/Bishoprick) and has its see at Rome (Italy)
(2) The Diocese/Bishoprick, from the canonical and administrative point of view, is a part of the "Romanian Orthodox Metropolitinate of Western and Southern Europe" (hereafter the Metropolitinate), the Metropolitinate which has for your [sic, should be "its"?] see at Paris (France) and is placed under the canonical autority of the Holy Synod of the Romanian Orthodox Church, organized as the Patriarchate with the title of "Romanian Patriarchate" and with its see at Bucharest (Romania).
http://www.episcopia-italiei.eu/media/statut_eori.pdf

Quote
Antioch c. 9. The presiding Bishop in a metropolis must be recognized by the Bishops belonging to each province (or eparchy), and undertake the cure of the entire province, because of the fact that all who have any kind of business to attend to are wont to come from all quarters to the metropolis. Hence it has seemed best to let him have precedence in respect of honor, and to let the rest of the Bishops do nothing extraordinary without him, in accordance with the ancient Canon of the Fathers which has been prevailing, or only those things which are imposed upon the parish of each one of them and upon the territories under it. For each Bishop shall have authority over his own parish, to govern in accordance with the reverence imposed upon each, and to make provision regarding all the territory belonging to his city, as also to ordain Presbyters and Deacons, and to dispose of details with judgment, but to attempt nothing further without the concurrence of the Bishop of the Metropolis; nor shall he himself, without the consent and approval of the rest.

(Ap. c. XXXIV.)

Interpretation.

The present is almost identical with Ap. c. XXXIV in respect of words and in respect of meaning. For it too teaches that the Bishops of each province ought to recognize the Metropolitan of the province as their chief, and to do nothing without his consent and approval (as in turn neither is he to do anything without their consent and approval), but only those things which belong to their episcopates, ordinations, that is to say, of presbyters and deacons and of the rest, administrations of the church, and the rest. Concerning which see the said Ap. c.
http://www.holytrinitymission.org/books/english/councils_local_rudder.htm#_Toc72635082
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: mike on February 12, 2013, 02:07:06 PM
Quote
ART. 1 – (1) La Chiesa ortodossa romena in Italia
è organizzata come diocesi / eparchia con la titolatura di “Diocesi / Eparchia ortodossa romena
d’Italia” (in seguito la Diocesi), ed ha sede a Roma (Italia).
(2) La Diocesi, dal punto di vista canonico ed amministrativo, è parte della “Metropoli ortodossa romena dell’Europa occidentale e meridionale” (in seguito la  Metropoli), Metropoli che ha sede a Parigi (Francia), e che si trova sotto l’autorità canonica del Santo Sinodo della Chiesa ortodossa romena, che è organizzata come patriarcato con titolatura di “Patriarcato Romeno” e che ha sede a Bucarest (Romania).

ART. 1 – (1) Biserica Ortodoxă Română din Italia este organizată ca eparhie cu titlul de “Episcopia Ortodoxă Română a Italiei” (în continuare Episcopia) și are sediul la Roma (Italia).
(2) Episcopia, din punct de vedere canonic și administrativ, este parte a “Mitropoliei Ortodoxe Române a Europei Occidentale și Meridionale” (în continuare Mitropolia), Mitropolie ce îți [sic] are sediul la Paris (Franța), și se află sub autoritatea canonică a Sfântului Sinod al Bisericii Ortodoxe Române, organizată ca Patriarhie cu titulatura de “Patriarhia Română” și cu sediul la București (România)   

ART. 1 - (1) The Romanian Orthodox Church in Italy is organized as the diocese/eparchy with the title of "Romanian Orthodox Diocese/Bishoprick/Eparchy of Italy" (hereafter the Diocese/Bishoprick) and has its see at Rome (Italy)
(2) The Diocese/Bishoprick, from the canonical and administrative point of view, is a part of the "Romanian Orthodox Metropolitinate of Western and Southern Europe" (hereafter the Metropolitinate), the Metropolitinate which has for your [sic, should be "its"?] see at Paris (France) and is placed under the canonical autority of the Holy Synod of the Romanian Orthodox Church, organized as the Patriarchate with the title of "Romanian Patriarchate" and with its see at Bucharest (Romania).
http://www.episcopia-italiei.eu/media/statut_eori.pdf


emphasis mine
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: ialmisry on February 12, 2013, 02:07:26 PM
I hope that its not that African Cardinal ( Peter Tongo something)
I heard rumors that he might be an Afro Marxist eho would either favor third world nations over the desperately needed re evangelization of European nations.  He could also try to liberalize or Africanize the RC liturgy and theology / morality.  We need to reme.mber as Belloc said Europe is the faith and vis a versa. Other nations have the place but we should always take care of our mother first

they haven't elected a bishop of Rome for some time.  It's been an election for "supreme pontiff," in which Italy is just another province.

Maybe he can stay on as archbishop of Rome for the Vatican, and let them elect a different "supreme pontiff."
There is no Archbishop of Rome, because the leader of the Diocese of Rome is entitled the Bishop of Rome, of which the office of the Pope is the same.
this is the bishop of Rome
(http://www.doxologia.ro/sites/default/files/imagecache/imagine_600_width/articol/2012/07/ps_siluan_2.jpg)

As for the Vatican hierarchy, I am aware that the archbishoprick of Rome has been abolished, like the Patriarchate of the West, in favor of the "supreme pontiff."

I'm not even going to argue your semantics game, but that diocese has always just been that, a diocese, not an archdiocese.

(And to argue your point, that is the Metropolitian of Italy, not Rome)

Oh dear, I was beginning wonder if this was pantomime and when were we due to shout, "he's behind you!"

Seriously, since when can the Romanians simply parachute someone in and 'take' over or claim back the See. And even more odd that such a pretence, if indeed that were ever the Romanians intent, should come from the ecumenist Romanian Patriarchate.
odd claim for someone who not only is outside of canonical communion, but by the very definition of the his church's name, outside its canonical territory.

Besides being Roman in every sense of the word, the Romanian Patriarchate incorporated into itself the Metropolitinate of Bukowina, which had jurisdiction in Italy.  Details here:
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,23485.msg591006.html#msg591006
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: ialmisry on February 12, 2013, 02:08:27 PM
Quote
ART. 1 – (1) La Chiesa ortodossa romena in Italia
è organizzata come diocesi / eparchia con la titolatura di “Diocesi / Eparchia ortodossa romena
d’Italia” (in seguito la Diocesi), ed ha sede a Roma (Italia).
(2) La Diocesi, dal punto di vista canonico ed amministrativo, è parte della “Metropoli ortodossa romena dell’Europa occidentale e meridionale” (in seguito la  Metropoli), Metropoli che ha sede a Parigi (Francia), e che si trova sotto l’autorità canonica del Santo Sinodo della Chiesa ortodossa romena, che è organizzata come patriarcato con titolatura di “Patriarcato Romeno” e che ha sede a Bucarest (Romania).

ART. 1 – (1) Biserica Ortodoxă Română din Italia este organizată ca eparhie cu titlul de “Episcopia Ortodoxă Română a Italiei” (în continuare Episcopia) și are sediul la Roma (Italia).
(2) Episcopia, din punct de vedere canonic și administrativ, este parte a “Mitropoliei Ortodoxe Române a Europei Occidentale și Meridionale” (în continuare Mitropolia), Mitropolie ce îți [sic] are sediul la Paris (Franța), și se află sub autoritatea canonică a Sfântului Sinod al Bisericii Ortodoxe Române, organizată ca Patriarhie cu titulatura de “Patriarhia Română” și cu sediul la București (România)   

ART. 1 - (1) The Romanian Orthodox Church in Italy is organized as the diocese/eparchy with the title of "Romanian Orthodox Diocese/Bishoprick/Eparchy of Italy" (hereafter the Diocese/Bishoprick) and has its see at Rome (Italy)
(2) The Diocese/Bishoprick, from the canonical and administrative point of view, is a part of the "Romanian Orthodox Metropolitinate of Western and Southern Europe" (hereafter the Metropolitinate), the Metropolitinate which has for your [sic, should be "its"?] see at Paris (France) and is placed under the canonical autority of the Holy Synod of the Romanian Orthodox Church, organized as the Patriarchate with the title of "Romanian Patriarchate" and with its see at Bucharest (Romania).
http://www.episcopia-italiei.eu/media/statut_eori.pdf


emphasis mine
and where is its throne, cathedral and see?
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: ialmisry on February 12, 2013, 02:10:49 PM
Isn't it strange that there's never been an American Pope? There's even been a Dutch one.


Quote
There have been 217 popes from Italy, 17 from France, 13 from Greece, 8 from Germany, 6 from Syria, 3 from Africa, 2 from Portugal, 2 from Spain, and one each from Galilee (Palestine) (Saint Peter), England (Pope Adrian IV), the Netherlands (Adrian VI) and Poland (John Paul II).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Popes_by_nationality
Actually, most of those it lists as "Greek" came from southern Italy, one from Jerusalem, and one from Ephesus.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: mike on February 12, 2013, 02:12:48 PM
Quote
ART. 1 – (1) La Chiesa ortodossa romena in Italia
è organizzata come diocesi / eparchia con la titolatura di “Diocesi / Eparchia ortodossa romena
d’Italia” (in seguito la Diocesi), ed ha sede a Roma (Italia).
(2) La Diocesi, dal punto di vista canonico ed amministrativo, è parte della “Metropoli ortodossa romena dell’Europa occidentale e meridionale” (in seguito la  Metropoli), Metropoli che ha sede a Parigi (Francia), e che si trova sotto l’autorità canonica del Santo Sinodo della Chiesa ortodossa romena, che è organizzata come patriarcato con titolatura di “Patriarcato Romeno” e che ha sede a Bucarest (Romania).

ART. 1 – (1) Biserica Ortodoxă Română din Italia este organizată ca eparhie cu titlul de “Episcopia Ortodoxă Română a Italiei” (în continuare Episcopia) și are sediul la Roma (Italia).
(2) Episcopia, din punct de vedere canonic și administrativ, este parte a “Mitropoliei Ortodoxe Române a Europei Occidentale și Meridionale” (în continuare Mitropolia), Mitropolie ce îți [sic] are sediul la Paris (Franța), și se află sub autoritatea canonică a Sfântului Sinod al Bisericii Ortodoxe Române, organizată ca Patriarhie cu titulatura de “Patriarhia Română” și cu sediul la București (România)  

ART. 1 - (1) The Romanian Orthodox Church in Italy is organized as the diocese/eparchy with the title of "Romanian Orthodox Diocese/Bishoprick/Eparchy of Italy" (hereafter the Diocese/Bishoprick) and has its see at Rome (Italy)
(2) The Diocese/Bishoprick, from the canonical and administrative point of view, is a part of the "Romanian Orthodox Metropolitinate of Western and Southern Europe" (hereafter the Metropolitinate), the Metropolitinate which has for your [sic, should be "its"?] see at Paris (France) and is placed under the canonical autority of the Holy Synod of the Romanian Orthodox Church, organized as the Patriarchate with the title of "Romanian Patriarchate" and with its see at Bucharest (Romania).
http://www.episcopia-italiei.eu/media/statut_eori.pdf


emphasis mine
and where is its throne, cathedral and see?

In Rome. Same like RC Latin Patriarchs of X that lived in Rome.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: ialmisry on February 12, 2013, 02:13:41 PM
Quote
ART. 1 – (1) La Chiesa ortodossa romena in Italia
è organizzata come diocesi / eparchia con la titolatura di “Diocesi / Eparchia ortodossa romena
d’Italia” (in seguito la Diocesi), ed ha sede a Roma (Italia).
(2) La Diocesi, dal punto di vista canonico ed amministrativo, è parte della “Metropoli ortodossa romena dell’Europa occidentale e meridionale” (in seguito la  Metropoli), Metropoli che ha sede a Parigi (Francia), e che si trova sotto l’autorità canonica del Santo Sinodo della Chiesa ortodossa romena, che è organizzata come patriarcato con titolatura di “Patriarcato Romeno” e che ha sede a Bucarest (Romania).

ART. 1 – (1) Biserica Ortodoxă Română din Italia este organizată ca eparhie cu titlul de “Episcopia Ortodoxă Română a Italiei” (în continuare Episcopia) și are sediul la Roma (Italia).
(2) Episcopia, din punct de vedere canonic și administrativ, este parte a “Mitropoliei Ortodoxe Române a Europei Occidentale și Meridionale” (în continuare Mitropolia), Mitropolie ce îți [sic] are sediul la Paris (Franța), și se află sub autoritatea canonică a Sfântului Sinod al Bisericii Ortodoxe Române, organizată ca Patriarhie cu titulatura de “Patriarhia Română” și cu sediul la București (România)  

ART. 1 - (1) The Romanian Orthodox Church in Italy is organized as the diocese/eparchy with the title of "Romanian Orthodox Diocese/Bishoprick/Eparchy of Italy" (hereafter the Diocese/Bishoprick) and has its see at Rome (Italy)
(2) The Diocese/Bishoprick, from the canonical and administrative point of view, is a part of the "Romanian Orthodox Metropolitinate of Western and Southern Europe" (hereafter the Metropolitinate), the Metropolitinate which has for your [sic, should be "its"?] see at Paris (France) and is placed under the canonical autority of the Holy Synod of the Romanian Orthodox Church, organized as the Patriarchate with the title of "Romanian Patriarchate" and with its see at Bucharest (Romania).
http://www.episcopia-italiei.eu/media/statut_eori.pdf


emphasis mine
and where is its throne, cathedral and see?

In Rome. Same like RC Latin Patriarchs of X that lived in Rome.
X?
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: mike on February 12, 2013, 02:19:08 PM
Quote
ART. 1 – (1) La Chiesa ortodossa romena in Italia
è organizzata come diocesi / eparchia con la titolatura di “Diocesi / Eparchia ortodossa romena
d’Italia” (in seguito la Diocesi), ed ha sede a Roma (Italia).
(2) La Diocesi, dal punto di vista canonico ed amministrativo, è parte della “Metropoli ortodossa romena dell’Europa occidentale e meridionale” (in seguito la  Metropoli), Metropoli che ha sede a Parigi (Francia), e che si trova sotto l’autorità canonica del Santo Sinodo della Chiesa ortodossa romena, che è organizzata come patriarcato con titolatura di “Patriarcato Romeno” e che ha sede a Bucarest (Romania).

ART. 1 – (1) Biserica Ortodoxă Română din Italia este organizată ca eparhie cu titlul de “Episcopia Ortodoxă Română a Italiei” (în continuare Episcopia) și are sediul la Roma (Italia).
(2) Episcopia, din punct de vedere canonic și administrativ, este parte a “Mitropoliei Ortodoxe Române a Europei Occidentale și Meridionale” (în continuare Mitropolia), Mitropolie ce îți [sic] are sediul la Paris (Franța), și se află sub autoritatea canonică a Sfântului Sinod al Bisericii Ortodoxe Române, organizată ca Patriarhie cu titulatura de “Patriarhia Română” și cu sediul la București (România)   

ART. 1 - (1) The Romanian Orthodox Church in Italy is organized as the diocese/eparchy with the title of "Romanian Orthodox Diocese/Bishoprick/Eparchy of Italy" (hereafter the Diocese/Bishoprick) and has its see at Rome (Italy)
(2) The Diocese/Bishoprick, from the canonical and administrative point of view, is a part of the "Romanian Orthodox Metropolitinate of Western and Southern Europe" (hereafter the Metropolitinate), the Metropolitinate which has for your [sic, should be "its"?] see at Paris (France) and is placed under the canonical autority of the Holy Synod of the Romanian Orthodox Church, organized as the Patriarchate with the title of "Romanian Patriarchate" and with its see at Bucharest (Romania).
http://www.episcopia-italiei.eu/media/statut_eori.pdf


emphasis mine
and where is its throne, cathedral and see?

In Rome. Same like RC Latin Patriarchs of X that lived in Rome.
X?

Antioch, Alexandria, Constantinople.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: podkarpatska on February 12, 2013, 02:21:36 PM
Semantics aside, I really doubt the good bishop views himself as THE Bishop of Rome . This is a rather silly, diversionary argument.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: J Michael on February 12, 2013, 02:24:31 PM
Semantics aside, I really doubt the good bishop views himself as THE Bishop of Rome . This is a rather silly, diversionary argument.

Ahh....the voice of reason and sanity!  :)
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Mor Ephrem on February 12, 2013, 02:26:04 PM
Yes, because if there's one thing I think of when I think of the Roman Catholic Church, it's white people and their particular concerns.

(http://i3.ytimg.com/vi/iS1oSeG8NyA/hqdefault.jpg)

Pictured: A bunch of honkies gather to greet the Roman Pope. (Just kidding, of course. Good thing they've got him in that protective car, eh Charles? Otherwise those black folks might get their witchcraft all over him. Ew.)

I nominate the post above for a gold star, "Best in Show", or whatever is the OCNet equivalent.  I literally LOLed for minutes!  

In all seriousness, however, let me be the first to allay the concerns many on this forum undoubtedly have: I am not in the running for the Roman Papacy.  Yesterday afternoon, when I expressed interest in applying for the position, I was told by a member of the nunciature staff in DC that I'm missing the required amount of natures necessary to qualify as a papabile (off by one, d-mnit!).  

But don't get too comfortable, folks.  I've been eyeing Constantinople for almost a decade, I'm not letting them get away with that excuse when that see opens up.  
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: ialmisry on February 12, 2013, 02:30:57 PM
Quote
ART. 1 – (1) La Chiesa ortodossa romena in Italia
è organizzata come diocesi / eparchia con la titolatura di “Diocesi / Eparchia ortodossa romena
d’Italia” (in seguito la Diocesi), ed ha sede a Roma (Italia).
(2) La Diocesi, dal punto di vista canonico ed amministrativo, è parte della “Metropoli ortodossa romena dell’Europa occidentale e meridionale” (in seguito la  Metropoli), Metropoli che ha sede a Parigi (Francia), e che si trova sotto l’autorità canonica del Santo Sinodo della Chiesa ortodossa romena, che è organizzata come patriarcato con titolatura di “Patriarcato Romeno” e che ha sede a Bucarest (Romania).

ART. 1 – (1) Biserica Ortodoxă Română din Italia este organizată ca eparhie cu titlul de “Episcopia Ortodoxă Română a Italiei” (în continuare Episcopia) și are sediul la Roma (Italia).
(2) Episcopia, din punct de vedere canonic și administrativ, este parte a “Mitropoliei Ortodoxe Române a Europei Occidentale și Meridionale” (în continuare Mitropolia), Mitropolie ce îți [sic] are sediul la Paris (Franța), și se află sub autoritatea canonică a Sfântului Sinod al Bisericii Ortodoxe Române, organizată ca Patriarhie cu titulatura de “Patriarhia Română” și cu sediul la București (România)   

ART. 1 - (1) The Romanian Orthodox Church in Italy is organized as the diocese/eparchy with the title of "Romanian Orthodox Diocese/Bishoprick/Eparchy of Italy" (hereafter the Diocese/Bishoprick) and has its see at Rome (Italy)
(2) The Diocese/Bishoprick, from the canonical and administrative point of view, is a part of the "Romanian Orthodox Metropolitinate of Western and Southern Europe" (hereafter the Metropolitinate), the Metropolitinate which has for your [sic, should be "its"?] see at Paris (France) and is placed under the canonical autority of the Holy Synod of the Romanian Orthodox Church, organized as the Patriarchate with the title of "Romanian Patriarchate" and with its see at Bucharest (Romania).
http://www.episcopia-italiei.eu/media/statut_eori.pdf


emphasis mine
and where is its throne, cathedral and see?

In Rome. Same like RC Latin Patriarchs of X that lived in Rome.
X?

Antioch, Alexandria, Constantinople.
Except, per the canons (e.g. Nicea I c. 6) they were uncanonical, and Bishop Siluan of Rome is not.

And their titular thrones, cathedrals and sees were not in Rome.  Just themselves.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: ialmisry on February 12, 2013, 02:31:56 PM
Semantics aside, I really doubt the good bishop views himself as THE Bishop of Rome . This is a rather silly, diversionary argument.
Does he see himself still as the bishop of Lucca?
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Shiny on February 12, 2013, 02:50:09 PM
Semantics aside, I really doubt the good bishop views himself as THE Bishop of Rome . This is a rather silly, diversionary argument.
When in Rome do as the Romans do.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Peter J on February 12, 2013, 02:51:50 PM
Does the Pope's resignation reflect a more Western, CEO model of ministry, as compared to the Orthodox, more 'fatherly', model of ministry?

Possibly, but this is the first pope to resign in almost 600 years. How long has it been since an EP resigned?
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: mike on February 12, 2013, 02:55:48 PM
Does the Pope's resignation reflect a more Western, CEO model of ministry, as compared to the Orthodox, more 'fatherly', model of ministry?

Possibly, but this is the first pope to resign in almost 600 years. How long has it been since an EP resigned?

65
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Cyrillic on February 12, 2013, 03:01:49 PM
There have been times that there were 4 or 5 ex-Patriarchs of Constantinople at the same time.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: choy on February 12, 2013, 03:42:03 PM
Smack in the middle of Great Lent.  Perhaps that is very good timing.

Does the Pope get to eat meat during Lent?  He already gave up the Papacy for Lent.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: biro on February 12, 2013, 03:46:43 PM
Smack in the middle of Great Lent.  Perhaps that is very good timing.

Does the Pope get to eat meat during Lent?  He already gave up the Papacy for Lent.

You made a funny!  :D
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: augustin717 on February 12, 2013, 03:49:03 PM
I hope that its not that African Cardinal ( Peter Tongo something)
I heard rumors that he might be an Afro Marxist eho would either favor third world nations over the desperately needed re evangelization of European nations.  He could also try to liberalize or Africanize the RC liturgy and theology / morality.  We need to reme.mber as Belloc said Europe is the faith and vis a versa. Other nations have the place but we should always take care of our mother first

they haven't elected a bishop of Rome for some time.  It's been an election for "supreme pontiff," in which Italy is just another province.

Maybe he can stay on as archbishop of Rome for the Vatican, and let them elect a different "supreme pontiff."
There is no Archbishop of Rome, because the leader of the Diocese of Rome is entitled the Bishop of Rome, of which the office of the Pope is the same.
this is the bishop of Rome
(http://www.doxologia.ro/sites/default/files/imagecache/imagine_600_width/articol/2012/07/ps_siluan_2.jpg)

No, he is not.
According to the Sacred Canons of the Orthodox Church and the Statute of the Romanian Orthodox Patriarchate, yes, he is.

I'm not even going to argue your semantics game, but that diocese has always just been that, a diocese, not an archdiocese.
Not according to the Acts of the Ecumenical Councils, and the Orthodox practice of the Catholic Church.
(And to argue your point, that is the Metropolitian of Italy, not Rome)
According to the Sacred Canons of the Orthodox Church and the Statute of the Romanian Orthodox Patriarchate, no, he is not.
Then they should just clean up San Giovanni for him. And voila! Habemus papam.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: choy on February 12, 2013, 03:54:32 PM
Smack in the middle of Great Lent.  Perhaps that is very good timing.

Does the Pope get to eat meat during Lent?  He already gave up the Papacy for Lent.

You made a funny!  :D

I knew that if I just kept dishing it out, I'd hit a home run at some point.  ;D
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: J Michael on February 12, 2013, 03:57:20 PM
Smack in the middle of Great Lent.  Perhaps that is very good timing.

Does the Pope get to eat meat during Lent?  He already gave up the Papacy for Lent.

 ::)
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Shiny on February 12, 2013, 05:01:47 PM
well according to Malachy of Ireland this new pope is it and the world will end. he said the last pope's name is Peter and will be from Rome. I guess we will have to see how it all plays out.

ROFL that Jags avatar.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Deacon Lance on February 12, 2013, 05:38:47 PM
As for the Vatican hierarchy, I am aware that the archbishoprick of Rome has been abolished, like the Patriarchate of the West, in favor of the "supreme pontiff."

No it has not.

Bishop of Rome, Vicar of Jesus Christ, Successor of the Prince of the Apostles, Supreme Pontiff of the Universal Church, Primate of Italy, Archbishop and Metropolitan of the Roman Province, Sovereign of the State of Vatican City, Servant of the Servants of God.  From Annuario Pontificio, Libreria Editrice Vaticana, p. 23. ISBN of the 2012 edition: 978-88-209-8722-0.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: choy on February 12, 2013, 05:48:46 PM
As for the Vatican hierarchy, I am aware that the archbishoprick of Rome has been abolished, like the Patriarchate of the West, in favor of the "supreme pontiff."

No it has not.

Bishop of Rome, Vicar of Jesus Christ, Successor of the Prince of the Apostles, Supreme Pontiff of the Universal Church, Primate of Italy, Archbishop and Metropolitan of the Roman Province, Sovereign of the State of Vatican City, Servant of the Servants of God.  From Annuario Pontificio, Libreria Editrice Vaticana, p. 23. ISBN of the 2012 edition: 978-88-209-8722-0.

Yup, there is another bishop who acts as administrator but runs the Archdiocese in the name of the Pope.  Also, Primate does not have any meaning in the Roman Catholic Church anymore.  There are no longer national synods that needs a Primate.  There are Episcopal Conferences which usually includes Eastern Catholic bishops if they are in the territory, but it is not synodal like it was before.  Basically, all bishops are equal under the Pope from any perspective.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: ialmisry on February 12, 2013, 06:56:34 PM
As for the Vatican hierarchy, I am aware that the archbishoprick of Rome has been abolished, like the Patriarchate of the West, in favor of the "supreme pontiff."

No it has not.

Bishop of Rome, Vicar of Jesus Christ, Successor of the Prince of the Apostles, Supreme Pontiff of the Universal Church, Primate of Italy, Archbishop and Metropolitan of the Roman Province, Sovereign of the State of Vatican City, Servant of the Servants of God.  From Annuario Pontificio, Libreria Editrice Vaticana, p. 23. ISBN of the 2012 edition: 978-88-209-8722-0.
Choy got it right.

The Vatican's "bishop of Rome" exists de jure but not de facto, while its "Patriarchate of the West" doesn't exist de jure but only de facto.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: rakovsky on February 12, 2013, 07:04:34 PM
As for the Vatican hierarchy, I am aware that the archbishoprick of Rome has been abolished, like the Patriarchate of the West, in favor of the "supreme pontiff."

No it has not.

Bishop of Rome, Vicar of Jesus Christ, Successor of the Prince of the Apostles, Supreme Pontiff of the Universal Church, Primate of Italy, Archbishop and Metropolitan of the Roman Province, Sovereign of the State of Vatican City, Servant of the Servants of God.  From Annuario Pontificio, Libreria Editrice Vaticana, p. 23. ISBN of the 2012 edition: 978-88-209-8722-0.

Yup, there is another bishop who acts as administrator but runs the Archdiocese in the name of the Pope.  Also, Primate does not have any meaning in the Roman Catholic Church anymore.  There are no longer national synods that needs a Primate.  There are Episcopal Conferences which usually includes Eastern Catholic bishops if they are in the territory, but it is not synodal like it was before.  Basically, all bishops are equal under the Pope from any perspective.
Choy,

This may not be completely true. They are all under the Pope as his subordinates. However, some eastern Cath. Churches have "Patriarchs" that have subordinated to the Pope. In that case, I am not sure whether they have more or less authority than RC Bishops. However, bishops in eastern Cath. churches would seem to have to obey BOTH their patriarch AND the Pope.

Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: minasoliman on February 12, 2013, 07:09:16 PM
Smack in the middle of Great Lent.  Perhaps that is very good timing.

Does the Pope get to eat meat during Lent?  He already gave up the Papacy for Lent.

You made a funny!  :D

A meme done by your's truly:
http://m.quickmeme.com/meme/3syrr7/
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: choy on February 12, 2013, 07:26:20 PM
Choy,

This may not be completely true. They are all under the Pope as his subordinates. However, some eastern Cath. Churches have "Patriarchs" that have subordinated to the Pope. In that case, I am not sure whether they have more or less authority than RC Bishops. However, bishops in eastern Cath. churches would seem to have to obey BOTH their patriarch AND the Pope.

In my experience, EC Churches still maintain that synodal ecclesiology where a synod makes the actual decisions and not the Patriarch as some sort of mini-Pope for the sui juris Church.  At least that is how I see the UGCC operate, everything is done by a synod and His Beatitude Sviatoslav proclaims the decision.  I think even the CCEO, which is Roman in origin, does not accord sole authority over a sui juris exclusively to its Primate, but in cases where it says it depends on the particular Church to determine how a particular canon is implemented, it is always stated that it is up to the synod, not the Patriarch.  Whereas an Episcopal Conference is not a synod.  Individual Bishops aren't even bound to follow any decision or decree by the Conference, they can freely opt in or out at their own whim.  An example here is the posture of receiving Communion (Episcopal Conferences need to ask for permission to allow Communion in the hand).  There are individual bishops who opted not to allow CITH in their diocese even though their Episcopal Conference has the Vatican's approval to allow CITH and has thus agreed to apply it.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Sybok on February 12, 2013, 09:05:54 PM


Seriously, since when can the Romanians simply parachute someone in and 'take' over or claim back the See. And even more odd that such a pretence, if indeed that were ever the Romanians intent, should come from the ecumenist Romanian Patriarchate.

didnt they "parachute in" not too long ago their own people in Israel, to the chagrin of the Greek Orth. Patriarchate of Jerusalem and ROCOR?
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Sybok on February 12, 2013, 09:12:26 PM
Does the Pope's resignation reflect a more Western, CEO model of ministry, as compared to the Orthodox, more 'fatherly', model of ministry?

Why would it?
In other words, does Orthodoxy see it as part of its tradition, the idea that patriarchs or bishops can resign voluntarily?


They can and did.

Anyone in particular come to mind?
St Photius resigned, there have been other ecumenical patriarchs who have done so too though i cant recall off the top of my head names
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: KShaft on February 12, 2013, 10:19:14 PM

So, will the next Pope be named Peter?    :-\

Or Simon.

Or "the Rock"  :D   

I bet if the Rock becomes the Pope alot will convert  ;)

(http://www.memegeneokerlund.com/media/created/u3b46t.jpg)

LMAO literally man... oh shit....
Title: Re: Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: KShaft on February 12, 2013, 10:27:12 PM
A picture of the Lightning Bolt striking St. Peter's dome at the Vatican was just shown on Channel 10, ABC, on San Diego.

Why did the lightning bolt strike the Vatican soon after the Pope's resignation? Note that a lightning bolt also struck the Vatican at the Council of Vatican I, when the doctrines of Papal Infallibility and Supremacy were declared.
(http://i1.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article1704267.ece/BINARY/Lightening+strikes+the+Vatican.jpg)
From: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/lightning-strikes-vatican-on-the-day-the-pope-1704295

Maybe the Pope yelled, "By the power of Infallibility!!!  I have universal supreme ordinary jurisdictional power!!!"

(http://www.howyougetstrong.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/greyskull.jpg)

Wow you got me again... LOL
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns
Post by: rakovsky on February 12, 2013, 10:29:58 PM
When I first saw the thread's title, I thought it was a hoax. Yes, Wow.

My Orthodox priest once told me the Pope could never retire and could only be disposed, because a bishop retains his rank, and having a former pope around would create two Popes whose position was of infallible authority. For example, we refer to Met. Jonah, even though he resigned. As evidence of this, my priest, who attended Catholic school, pointed to how old Pope John Paul II was as pope, and even died in the position.

I understand that this contradiction of "simultaneous" popes might be explained away, since one no longer exercizes authority, but it is enough of an issue (Jesus and St Peter didn't "retire"), that retirement is extremely anomalous: especially when his mind still works as well as Pope Benedict's does. Pope Benedict was not a Pope of "change", and this is a big change.

I don't believe the story that the Pope simply retirement due to old age, because that basically doesn't happen, particularly in the case of a conservative Pope like Pope Benedict with a sound mind. The search should begin for the real reason.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: KShaft on February 12, 2013, 10:40:52 PM
[
Tough, I heard that he was a proponent of liberal beliefs ( as head of the Pontifical council for Justice and Peace they recently issued a statement calling for world currency and government).  As a European American I'm proud of my culture,  religion,  and heritage and wish to see those things preservfor posterity.  If that's not PC to some people, then too bad.  I'm not a very PC person and make no bones about it. People of all races and colors are welcome in the Big Ten of the Roman Church, But people like myself would like to see that shirt continue to be becenter in Europe and certainly not become the religious equivalent to the Obama administration and all its policies.
quote author=Asteriktos link=topic=49883.msg880442#msg880442 date=1360648650]
I hope that its not that African Cardinal ( Peter Tongo something)
I heard rumors that he might be an Afro Marxist eho would either favor third world nations over the desperately needed re evangelization of European nations.  He could also try to liberalize or Africanize the RC liturgy and theology / morality.  We need to reme.mber as Belloc said Europe is the faith and vis a versa. Other nations have the place but we should always take care of our mother first

You disgust me.
[/quote]

You should be ashamed of being white and developing the entirety of Christian culture and civilization around the western world!!!!
Because Latin America, Africa, and the Middle East are just awesome. Try objectivity sometime, oh no wait thats not PC. I mean feign indignation.... Oh OH, Racist!!! Oh! Oh! Oh...Bigot!!! OH.....
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: biro on February 12, 2013, 10:48:40 PM
Um, not all Christians are white.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Sinful Hypocrite on February 12, 2013, 10:53:16 PM
See , there was something to those Mayans and their calendar after all.  ::)
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: dzheremi on February 12, 2013, 10:58:39 PM
I'm as non-PC as the next thinking person, but that reply by KShaft just seems like a weak defense of something that was rightly pointed out to be incredibly ignorant and repulsive. Just like being PC ought not to be an excuse to stifle everyone's right to an opinion (though it sure seems to be exactly that), being anti-PC ought not be a means to evade criticism of your dumb opinion once it has been pointed out to be ridiculous (though, again, it sure seems to be exactly that).

But maybe I'm just a PC "Afro-Marxist", whatever the hell that is... (if Marxism itself is the problem, why put "Afro" before it? Is Marxism objectively worse in Africa than in Cuba, Laos, or -- shock, horror -- some place where mostly white European people live, like all the European states of the former Eastern bloc?)
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Peter J on February 12, 2013, 11:00:39 PM
I don't know, this one hit me pretty hard today, I liked Benedict much and he fought the good fight for Orthodoxy (Not EO people, so spare me) and brought much back for tradition including the TLM and probably tirelessly fought the modernists and liberals investing the Vatican like rats, that it probably took it's toll on him. Who knows what we're going to be subjected to in replacing him.


The Church has serious issues in these times and already I'm hearing this like it's some kind of a popularity contest like an American election with a bunch of brainless stooges controlling the levers moaning and wailing about "diversity" and "change".

I've had about enough of both, I don't think I can take any more.

These are dire times, popes just don't "resign" like this.

?

Have times changed so much since 8 years ago (when the last papal election happened)?
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: biro on February 12, 2013, 11:02:14 PM
Again, the Pope is 85. It doesn't seem that tough to figure out that he should be able to see a doctor if he needs one.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: KShaft on February 12, 2013, 11:03:06 PM
Um, not all Christians are white.

I hadnt noticed. Thank you for enlightening me sir...
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: serb1389 on February 12, 2013, 11:06:49 PM
Again, the Pope is 85. It doesn't seem that tough to figure out that he should be able to see a doctor if he needs one.

Sorry...totally lost you here.  why can't he see a doctor...pope or not?
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: biro on February 12, 2013, 11:10:00 PM
Again, the Pope is 85. It doesn't seem that tough to figure out that he should be able to see a doctor if he needs one.

Sorry...totally lost you here.  why can't he see a doctor...pope or not?

People seem surprised that he would step down for health reasons. I just thought I'd point out that an 85-year-old man may very well have serious reasons to seek medical attention; not everything is a conspiracy or a cover-up.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: rakovsky on February 12, 2013, 11:21:47 PM
It has been 600 years since the last resignation by a Pope.

Just a few days before, the Knights of Malta had their 900th anniversary in Rome. Despite being called the Knights of Malta, they are not actually the government of Malta:
Quote
The order’s international legal status is entirely unique, a sovereign entity that prints its own stamps, coins, license plates and passports, yet has no territory over which it rules... Napoleon expelled the order from Malta in 1798
http://life.nationalpost.com/2013/02/09/peculiar-900-year-old-order-of-the-knights-of-malta-celebrates-anniversary-with-vatican-mass/

Quote
Dr. Robert Moynihan, editor of Inside the Vatican magazine, is no conspiracy theorist. He’s THE quasi-official Vatican-embedded journalist and commentator [writes]:

On Saturday, I [attended] a funeral Mass in St. Peter’s Basilica for a cardinal who died last week. Pope Benedict was scheduled to attend, but at the very last minute, he canceled his attendance. This was an indication to me already Saturday evening that he was unusually tired (he had spent several hours that monring (sic) with the Order of the Knights of Malta). Normally he would have been present at a cardinal’s funeral.
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2013/02/11/was-pope-benedict-fired-by-the-knights-of-malta/
Considering the organization's importance, it seems the meeting may have had something to do with the resignation that came soon after.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: biro on February 12, 2013, 11:26:11 PM
Oh boy.

It seems people will believe whatever they want to believe.

I figure this'll get pretty silly in a hurry, just because people want to believe in something more complicated and weird.

Occam's Razor, anyone?

I don't mean to be offensive, but as he's 85, he may not have long to live. As such, maybe he just wants to go to hospice or something. Not so intricate as other theories, but far more likely to be true than something else.

Next they're going to drag in Opus Dei, and then why not Dan Brown?
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: dzheremi on February 12, 2013, 11:35:40 PM
I thought he was retiring to a monastery? I guess that could be seen as a kind of hospice...

Anyway, I agree. There's nothing fishy about this that I can see. It seems that people are just freaking out because this hasn't happened in 600 years or so, so it's a historic and somewhat shocking/confusing situation.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: rakovsky on February 12, 2013, 11:37:09 PM
"Historical evidence for papal resignations is limited (http://ncronline.org/news/vatican/can-pope-resign), especially if one eliminates resignations that may have been forced.

Clement I (92?-101): Epiphanius asserted that Clement gave up the pontificate to Linus for the sake of peace and became pope again after the death of Cletus.

...(LIST)

Celestine V (1294): A hermit, elected at age of 80 and overwhelmed by the office, resigned. He was imprisoned by his successor.

Gregory XII (1406-15): Resigned at request of Council of Constance to help end the Great Western Schism."
Good point, with your list, Jetavan. It shows how unusual it is, and that there could be some issue with others involved. You made a good point too:
Quote
In Light of the World, Pope Benedict responded unambiguously to a question about whether a pope could resign: "Yes. ... under some circumstances, also an obligation to resign."

It struck me when reading this list that he was the most similar to Pope Celestine V's situation.

And Iaonnis Climacus posts:
Quote
"Back on April 29, 2009, Pope Benedict XVI did something rather striking, but which went largely unnoticed.

He stopped off in Aquila, Italy, and visited the tomb of an obscure medieval Pope named St. Celestine V (1215-1296). After a brief prayer, he left his pallium, the symbol of his own episcopal authority as Bishop of Rome, on top of Celestine's tomb!

Fifteen months later, on July 4, 2010, Benedict went out of his way again, this time to visit and pray in the cathedral of Sulmona, near Rome, before the relics of this same saint, Celestine V.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: That person on February 12, 2013, 11:55:25 PM

You should be ashamed of being white and developing the entirety of Christian culture and civilization around the western world!!!!

Oh come on. If you're willing to take responsibility for everything a white person has ever done, much less exaggerate these actions to such an outrageous extent, you certainly had better feel some shame.

But yeah, all the "black people are terrifying posts" are getting pretty old, and churning my stomach just a tad.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: choy on February 12, 2013, 11:58:37 PM
Again, the Pope is 85. It doesn't seem that tough to figure out that he should be able to see a doctor if he needs one.

Sorry...totally lost you here.  why can't he see a doctor...pope or not?

People seem surprised that he would step down for health reasons. I just thought I'd point out that an 85-year-old man may very well have serious reasons to seek medical attention; not everything is a conspiracy or a cover-up.

My fear here is that there is perhaps a deeper medical problem that remains undisclosed.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Cymbyz on February 13, 2013, 02:32:59 AM
Congestive heart failure?  I have that; some of the symptoms are similar to what seems to be troubling Pope Benedict.  The onset can be gradual, sometimes punctuated with "heart attacks" (episodes of severe pulmonary edema).  It's something people die with as often as they die of it.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: lubeltri on February 13, 2013, 03:05:51 AM
I'm also sorry to see him go...  :(

From his days as a Cardinal:

Lamenting not having the spare time to visit Rome or read anything else but theology.
 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvaqlPRnf3Y)

The Church is not a democracy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyCw9M7mH24) - an interesting talk in Italian.

Vespers in the Chartreuse of Serra San Bruno (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzuERxCQ_M0) in October 2011 - a beautiful sermon from 56' onward. Speaks loads about where his heart is. Unfortunately, no English subtitles here either.




Thank you for these beautiful videos! The third one brought tears to my eyes.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: choy on February 13, 2013, 04:24:53 AM
Congestive heart failure?  I have that; some of the symptoms are similar to what seems to be troubling Pope Benedict.  The onset can be gradual, sometimes punctuated with "heart attacks" (episodes of severe pulmonary edema).  It's something people die with as often as they die of it.

I don't know, but perhaps it may be revealed after a successor is appointed.  Who knows.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Charles Martel on February 13, 2013, 06:24:16 AM
Um, not all Christians are white.
Um, most aren't "white".
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Charles Martel on February 13, 2013, 06:32:56 AM
[
Tough, I heard that he was a proponent of liberal beliefs ( as head of the Pontifical council for Justice and Peace they recently issued a statement calling for world currency and government).  As a European American I'm proud of my culture,  religion,  and heritage and wish to see those things preservfor posterity.  If that's not PC to some people, then too bad.  I'm not a very PC person and make no bones about it. People of all races and colors are welcome in the Big Ten of the Roman Church, But people like myself would like to see that shirt continue to be becenter in Europe and certainly not become the religious equivalent to the Obama administration and all its policies.
quote author=Asteriktos link=topic=49883.msg880442#msg880442 date=1360648650]
I hope that its not that African Cardinal ( Peter Tongo something)
I heard rumors that he might be an Afro Marxist eho would either favor third world nations over the desperately needed re evangelization of European nations.  He could also try to liberalize or Africanize the RC liturgy and theology / morality.  We need to reme.mber as Belloc said Europe is the faith and vis a versa. Other nations have the place but we should always take care of our mother first

You disgust me.

You should be ashamed of being white and developing the entirety of Christian culture and civilization around the western world!!!!
Because Latin America, Africa, and the Middle East are just awesome. Try objectivity sometime, oh no wait thats not PC. I mean feign indignation.... Oh OH, Racist!!! Oh! Oh! Oh...Bigot!!! OH.....
[/quote] Yes I know, this hysteria gets old after a while.

You can't even make a simple observation without some people having some type Pavlonian-dog type of reaction by salivating and moaning and wailing about " waycism!". This kind of meme is dug deep in their brain which cancels out all capability of critical thought.

I just ignore it these days and move on, nothing to see (or hear) here.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Charles Martel on February 13, 2013, 06:35:39 AM
I don't know, this one hit me pretty hard today, I liked Benedict much and he fought the good fight for Orthodoxy (Not EO people, so spare me) and brought much back for tradition including the TLM and probably tirelessly fought the modernists and liberals investing the Vatican like rats, that it probably took it's toll on him. Who knows what we're going to be subjected to in replacing him.


The Church has serious issues in these times and already I'm hearing this like it's some kind of a popularity contest like an American election with a bunch of brainless stooges controlling the levers moaning and wailing about "diversity" and "change".

I've had about enough of both, I don't think I can take any more.

These are dire times, popes just don't "resign" like this.

?

Have times changed so much since 8 years ago (when the last papal election happened)?
Things have been changing for over forty years.

Now that some of the old hippies and liberal guard starts dying off they're getting more desperate to keep the staus quo.

Tradition and truth are a powerful force they can't deal with.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Asteriktos on February 13, 2013, 08:46:50 AM
Congestive heart failure?  I have that; some of the symptoms are similar to what seems to be troubling Pope Benedict.  The onset can be gradual, sometimes punctuated with "heart attacks" (episodes of severe pulmonary edema).  It's something people die with as often as they die of it.

Fwiw...

"The pope is well and his soul is serene. He did not resign the pontificate because he is ill but because of the fragility that comes with old age," Lombardi said...

-- Source (http://www.cnn.com/2013/02/13/world/europe/pope-benedict-resignation/index.html?eref=igoogledmn_topstories)
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Clemente on February 13, 2013, 09:57:46 AM
Oh boy.

It seems people will believe whatever they want to believe.

I figure this'll get pretty silly in a hurry, just because people want to believe in something more complicated and weird.

Occam's Razor, anyone?

I don't mean to be offensive, but as he's 85, he may not have long to live. As such, maybe he just wants to go to hospice or something. Not so intricate as other theories, but far more likely to be true than something else.

Next they're going to drag in Opus Dei, and then why not Dan Brown?

I was thinking of Opus Dei as well. Let's forget the conspiracy theories.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Kerdy on February 13, 2013, 10:03:38 AM
I read today the Vatican confirmed the Pope has had a pacemaker for several years and recently had it replaced.  This would appear to be consistent with his reasoning to retire.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: username! on February 13, 2013, 10:17:47 AM
I read today the Vatican confirmed the Pope has had a pacemaker for several years and recently had it replaced.  This would appear to be consistent with his reasoning to retire.

I think being 85 and being asked to run such an organisation would be just a lot to handle.  Meetings, travel, meetings, press releases, press meetings, meeting the faithful, since he is the last absolute monarch in europe and head of a state then meeting heads of state etc... He probably just wants to spend time with his brother and to relax. 
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Adela on February 13, 2013, 04:24:56 PM
Pope John Paul II's legacy speaks to the value of life in all stages, and the value of redemptive suffering (which I admit I don't understand very well or how it relates to Eastern Orthodox theology.)   Pope Benedict, however, had a different mission, perhaps to stabilize the Church and keep it safe for the next Pope.  Also, being German, he probably values efficiency and doesn't see how he can be very efficient in declining health.  After riding on German trains as a child and then getting on a Yugoslavian train to go into communist Yugoslavia to visit relatives, it was very clear that Germans are an extremely efficient people and likethings precise and orderly. ( If their trains are a window into their psyche.)  


I read today the Vatican confirmed the Pope has had a pacemaker for several years and recently had it replaced.  This would appear to be consistent with his reasoning to retire.

I think being 85 and being asked to run such an organisation would be just a lot to handle.  Meetings, travel, meetings, press releases, press meetings, meeting the faithful, since he is the last absolute monarch in europe and head of a state then meeting heads of state etc... He probably just wants to spend time with his brother and to relax.  
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Ansgar on February 13, 2013, 04:54:47 PM
Quote
If their trains are a window into their psyche.

In this case, they definately are. Germans ( and, I think, northern europeans in general) values efficiency and accuracy very highly.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Jetavan on February 13, 2013, 06:48:58 PM
You should be ashamed of being white and developing the entirety of Christian culture and civilization around the western world!!!!

Paraphrasing Newton, all cultures build upon the successes of previous cultures. No one does it alone.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: That person on February 13, 2013, 09:11:12 PM
Edit: Never mind this.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Kerdy on February 13, 2013, 09:15:06 PM
I read today the Vatican confirmed the Pope has had a pacemaker for several years and recently had it replaced.  This would appear to be consistent with his reasoning to retire.

I think being 85 and being asked to run such an organisation would be just a lot to handle.  Meetings, travel, meetings, press releases, press meetings, meeting the faithful, since he is the last absolute monarch in europe and head of a state then meeting heads of state etc... He probably just wants to spend time with his brother and to relax. 

He has always looked tired, but more so recently. 
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: choy on February 13, 2013, 09:25:56 PM
I read today the Vatican confirmed the Pope has had a pacemaker for several years and recently had it replaced.  This would appear to be consistent with his reasoning to retire.

I think being 85 and being asked to run such an organisation would be just a lot to handle.  Meetings, travel, meetings, press releases, press meetings, meeting the faithful, since he is the last absolute monarch in europe and head of a state then meeting heads of state etc... He probably just wants to spend time with his brother and to relax. 

He has always looked tired, but more so recently. 

I would be too if I had to deal with the SSPX who can't make up their mind, or deliberately stalling.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Papist on February 13, 2013, 09:50:59 PM
I read today the Vatican confirmed the Pope has had a pacemaker for several years and recently had it replaced.  This would appear to be consistent with his reasoning to retire.

I think being 85 and being asked to run such an organisation would be just a lot to handle.  Meetings, travel, meetings, press releases, press meetings, meeting the faithful, since he is the last absolute monarch in europe and head of a state then meeting heads of state etc... He probably just wants to spend time with his brother and to relax. 

He has always looked tired, but more so recently. 

I would be too if I had to deal with the SSPX who can't make up their mind, or deliberately stalling.
You certainly have it out for these guys. Though, yes, I agree. In this particular situation, they are being overly stubborn. Though, given their fear of the state of certain diocese in the Church, I understand why. If I were a traditionalist, say in Boston, I would be very careful.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: choy on February 13, 2013, 09:57:01 PM
You certainly have it out for these guys. Though, yes, I agree. In this particular situation, they are being overly stubborn. Though, given their fear of the state of certain diocese in the Church, I understand why. If I were a traditionalist, say in Boston, I would be very careful.

Definitely, and I'm not denying or hiding it.  I personally think they are responsible for the problems of the RChurch today as much as the liberals are.  See, the straight and narrow path is in the middle, the liberals went too far left, and the traditionalists went too far right.  I hate it when people say, "well, they're better than the liberals."  They're both wrong.  Not because one position is wrong means that taking the extreme opposite position becomes right.  The Church has gone through many trials through history, just look at the 7 Ecumenical Councils.  I can't recall any saint that defended Orthodoxy that displayed the hubris that the SSPX and most other traditional groups are displaying.  I mean, the RCChurch has the FSSP.  The SSPX is completely expendible.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Papist on February 13, 2013, 09:58:18 PM
You certainly have it out for these guys. Though, yes, I agree. In this particular situation, they are being overly stubborn. Though, given their fear of the state of certain diocese in the Church, I understand why. If I were a traditionalist, say in Boston, I would be very careful.

Definitely, and I'm not denying or hiding it.  I personally think they are responsible for the problems of the RChurch today as much as the liberals are.  See, the straight and narrow path is in the middle, the liberals went too far left, and the traditionalists went too far right.  I hate it when people say, "well, they're better than the liberals."  They're both wrong.  Not because one position is wrong means that taking the extreme opposite position becomes right.  The Church has gone through many trials through history, just look at the 7 Ecumenical Councils.  I can't recall any saint that defended Orthodoxy that displayed the hubris that the SSPX and most other traditional groups are displaying.  I mean, the RCChurch has the FSSP.  The SSPX is completely expendible.
How do you feel about groups like the Old Believers, Old Calanderists, etc. ?
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: choy on February 13, 2013, 10:09:18 PM
You certainly have it out for these guys. Though, yes, I agree. In this particular situation, they are being overly stubborn. Though, given their fear of the state of certain diocese in the Church, I understand why. If I were a traditionalist, say in Boston, I would be very careful.

Definitely, and I'm not denying or hiding it.  I personally think they are responsible for the problems of the RChurch today as much as the liberals are.  See, the straight and narrow path is in the middle, the liberals went too far left, and the traditionalists went too far right.  I hate it when people say, "well, they're better than the liberals."  They're both wrong.  Not because one position is wrong means that taking the extreme opposite position becomes right.  The Church has gone through many trials through history, just look at the 7 Ecumenical Councils.  I can't recall any saint that defended Orthodoxy that displayed the hubris that the SSPX and most other traditional groups are displaying.  I mean, the RCChurch has the FSSP.  The SSPX is completely expendible.
How do you feel about groups like the Old Believers, Old Calanderists, etc. ?

Are they in communion with the Orthodox Church?
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Papist on February 13, 2013, 10:11:23 PM
You certainly have it out for these guys. Though, yes, I agree. In this particular situation, they are being overly stubborn. Though, given their fear of the state of certain diocese in the Church, I understand why. If I were a traditionalist, say in Boston, I would be very careful.

Definitely, and I'm not denying or hiding it.  I personally think they are responsible for the problems of the RChurch today as much as the liberals are.  See, the straight and narrow path is in the middle, the liberals went too far left, and the traditionalists went too far right.  I hate it when people say, "well, they're better than the liberals."  They're both wrong.  Not because one position is wrong means that taking the extreme opposite position becomes right.  The Church has gone through many trials through history, just look at the 7 Ecumenical Councils.  I can't recall any saint that defended Orthodoxy that displayed the hubris that the SSPX and most other traditional groups are displaying.  I mean, the RCChurch has the FSSP.  The SSPX is completely expendible.
How do you feel about groups like the Old Believers, Old Calanderists, etc. ?

Are they in communion with the Orthodox Church?
Old Calanderists are.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Jetavan on February 13, 2013, 10:11:50 PM
Colbert on the recent (http://www.colbertnation.com/full-episodes/mon-february-11-2013-garry-wills) developments.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Shiny on February 13, 2013, 10:12:19 PM
You certainly have it out for these guys. Though, yes, I agree. In this particular situation, they are being overly stubborn. Though, given their fear of the state of certain diocese in the Church, I understand why. If I were a traditionalist, say in Boston, I would be very careful.

Definitely, and I'm not denying or hiding it.  I personally think they are responsible for the problems of the RChurch today as much as the liberals are.  See, the straight and narrow path is in the middle, the liberals went too far left, and the traditionalists went too far right.  I hate it when people say, "well, they're better than the liberals."  They're both wrong.  Not because one position is wrong means that taking the extreme opposite position becomes right.  The Church has gone through many trials through history, just look at the 7 Ecumenical Councils.  I can't recall any saint that defended Orthodoxy that displayed the hubris that the SSPX and most other traditional groups are displaying.  I mean, the RCChurch has the FSSP.  The SSPX is completely expendible.
How do you feel about groups like the Old Believers, Old Calanderists, etc. ?

Are they in communion with the Orthodox Church?
Old Calanderists are.
You gonna open that can of worms here?
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Asteriktos on February 13, 2013, 10:16:43 PM
You certainly have it out for these guys. Though, yes, I agree. In this particular situation, they are being overly stubborn. Though, given their fear of the state of certain diocese in the Church, I understand why. If I were a traditionalist, say in Boston, I would be very careful.

Definitely, and I'm not denying or hiding it.  I personally think they are responsible for the problems of the RChurch today as much as the liberals are.  See, the straight and narrow path is in the middle, the liberals went too far left, and the traditionalists went too far right.  I hate it when people say, "well, they're better than the liberals."  They're both wrong.  Not because one position is wrong means that taking the extreme opposite position becomes right.  The Church has gone through many trials through history, just look at the 7 Ecumenical Councils.  I can't recall any saint that defended Orthodoxy that displayed the hubris that the SSPX and most other traditional groups are displaying.  I mean, the RCChurch has the FSSP.  The SSPX is completely expendible.
How do you feel about groups like the Old Believers, Old Calanderists, etc. ?

Are they in communion with the Orthodox Church?
Old Calanderists are.

Just a clarification: people on the old calendar are (Serbia, Georgia, Russia, etc.) Old calendarists, however, are not. On the other hand some old believers are, if I understand the relationship between at least one group and ROCOR properly, while most aren't. Seems confusing.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: choy on February 13, 2013, 10:16:50 PM
Papist, if I may add.  I understand what the SSPX is fighting for and I understand why.  But there is a right way of doing things and a wrong way of doing things.  Fighting for traditionalism doesn't justify how you do it.  As Jesus Christ said, by their fruits you will know them.  So how can I personally believe that Traditionalism is righteous if the manner they promote it is very anti-Christian.  Isn't charity a traditional Christian value?  Isn't love part of traditional Christianity?  Isn't humility?  To me what I see in them and many followers of the Traditional movement is just empty Christianity.  They are after the spelndor of the Rites without necessarily living the spirituality.  Being a Christian is about living according to the life of God, not about whether you have the prayers at the foot of the altar or not, not whether you receive Communion kneeling or standing, etc.  Orthodoxy and Eastern Catholicism are both trying to rediscover ancient roots as well.  ECs are reversing Latinizations, Orthodoxy trying to look at the pre-Turkish Yoke traditions, etc.  But I've never seen them approach this dialogue on restoring tradition the way the Tradtionalist movement in the RC has.  Yes, we have to be honest about the issues, but there is a line between being honest and being just outright mean.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: choy on February 13, 2013, 10:17:58 PM
You certainly have it out for these guys. Though, yes, I agree. In this particular situation, they are being overly stubborn. Though, given their fear of the state of certain diocese in the Church, I understand why. If I were a traditionalist, say in Boston, I would be very careful.

Definitely, and I'm not denying or hiding it.  I personally think they are responsible for the problems of the RChurch today as much as the liberals are.  See, the straight and narrow path is in the middle, the liberals went too far left, and the traditionalists went too far right.  I hate it when people say, "well, they're better than the liberals."  They're both wrong.  Not because one position is wrong means that taking the extreme opposite position becomes right.  The Church has gone through many trials through history, just look at the 7 Ecumenical Councils.  I can't recall any saint that defended Orthodoxy that displayed the hubris that the SSPX and most other traditional groups are displaying.  I mean, the RCChurch has the FSSP.  The SSPX is completely expendible.
How do you feel about groups like the Old Believers, Old Calanderists, etc. ?

Are they in communion with the Orthodox Church?
Old Calanderists are.

Aren't you confusing Old Calendarists with those who just follow the Old Calendar?
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Maria on February 13, 2013, 10:50:31 PM
Back on topic:

Several news services said that people in Rome today gave a standing ovation to the pope.

Here is one source:

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2013/02/pope-benedict-xvi-gets-standing-ovation.html


Quote
The pope told the crowd that he was "well aware of the seriousness of this act, but also aware of the fact that I am no longer capable of carrying out Peter's Ministry with the strength needed." He's sticking around long enough to kick off the Easter season, and will deliver Ash Wednesday mass today, but he's giving up the papacy for Lent and beyond.






Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Peter J on February 13, 2013, 10:59:28 PM
You certainly have it out for these guys. Though, yes, I agree. In this particular situation, they are being overly stubborn. Though, given their fear of the state of certain diocese in the Church, I understand why. If I were a traditionalist, say in Boston, I would be very careful.

Definitely, and I'm not denying or hiding it.  I personally think they are responsible for the problems of the RChurch today as much as the liberals are.  See, the straight and narrow path is in the middle,

If by "the middle" you mean the neo-conservative Catholics, then I must say that they can be quite problematic too. Actually, one of the (few?) things I like about the SSPX is their keen ability to point out the problems of the neo-conservatives.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: lubeltri on February 14, 2013, 03:31:24 AM
You certainly have it out for these guys. Though, yes, I agree. In this particular situation, they are being overly stubborn. Though, given their fear of the state of certain diocese in the Church, I understand why. If I were a traditionalist, say in Boston, I would be very careful.

We'll be okay.  :) As a matter of fact, I was at Boston's Cathedral of the Holy Cross tonight for Ash Wednesday Mass---according to the Extraordinary Form. The celebrant was a Franciscan Friar of the Primitive Observance, who are based in this Archdiocese. There's lot of opportunities for the traditional Mass around here, and there are some reverent Novus Ordo parishes and shrines in the city and plenty of opportunities for confession and adoration. There's the renowned Archdiocesan Choir School of boys at St. Paul's in Harvard Square (where we in the Harvard Univ. Knights of Columbus have been sponsoring traditional Masses). Boston also has an Anglican Use church and lots of Eastern Catholic churches.

Now that I think of it, I don't know where (or if) the SSPX have a presence here. After all, who needs the SSPX when you have the Feeneyites (who are now regularized and located out in Still River, Mass.)?  ;)  http://www.saintbenedict.com/

Now, the SSPX does have a huge presence in my hometown diocese in upstate New York, and considering the appalling state of that place, I don't begrudge them for a minute. They have a purpose, and the sooner the canonical stuff is settled, the better.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Sakeneko on February 14, 2013, 03:38:07 AM
A few points for the non-Orthodox or Orthodox but confused among us <G>:

* THE "OLD CALENDAR".  The "old calendar" is simply the Julian Calendar in use in most of Europe til the "new calendar" (the Gregorian Calendar) was adopted by the Catholic church and, later, most of Europe and its colonies.  Most Orthodox Christians use ("are on") the old calendar for church feasts, fasts, etc.  In the early 20th century, a synod of several national Orthodox churches agreed to adopt a calendar that is usually called the "Revised Julian Calendar".  It retains the traditional Orthodox dates for Pascha and associated holidays, but otherwise closely matches the Gregorian calendar.  Romania, Greece, the U.S., Finland and a few other countries use the modified Gregorian/New Julian "New Calendar".  Russia, most of Eastern Europe, and most Arab and North African Chalcedonian Orthodox Churches use the Julian "Old Calendar". These groups commune with one another and recognize the others as parts of the Church. Both groups are Orthodox, not Catholic.

* THE "OLD CALENDRISTS".  Some Orthodox Christians reject a number of changes that the larger Orthodox churches have made since the early 20th century in the calendar, but also with other aspects of church practice and discipline.  These are usually what is meant by "old calendrists".  Some of them are in communion with the large national Orthodox churches.  Some are not.  The ones that are not in communion with the large national Orthodox churches may not recognize the large national Orthodox churches as Orthodox or parts of the Church.  The large national Orthodox Churches, in turn, generally view the traditionalist "old calendar" churches that reject communion with them as schismatic. But both sides are Orthodox, not Catholic.

* THE "OLD BELIEVERS" (AKA "OLD RITUALISTS").  In Russia, during the reign of Peter the Great, the patriarch Nikon ordered certain changes to be made to church discipline and practices.  A fairly large number of Russian Orthodox (25% or more) refused to go along, and broke from the Russian Orthodox Church over these changes.  Like the "old calendrists", the "old believers" are traditionalists who refused to accept changes ordered by the bishops of their church, but the schism occurred during the middle and late 1600s instead of the early and middle 1900s.  One group of old believers reunified with the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia (ROCOR) while it was still out of communion with the Moscow-based Russian Orthodox Church, and thereby ended up back in communion with the main Russian Orthodox Church when ROCOR and the ROC reconciled in 2007.  Most "old believers" are still not in communion with the ROC, and the ROC and most other Orthodox churches view them as schismatic.  They are Orthodox, however, not Catholic.

The Catholic Church (i.e. all traditional Christian churches that recognize the Roman Pope as their supreme leader on earth) has its schisms and its problems, but these particular schisms and any problems associated with them are our own.  Unfortunately. <sigh>

Lord, have mercy!
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: choy on February 14, 2013, 04:26:03 AM
You certainly have it out for these guys. Though, yes, I agree. In this particular situation, they are being overly stubborn. Though, given their fear of the state of certain diocese in the Church, I understand why. If I were a traditionalist, say in Boston, I would be very careful.

Definitely, and I'm not denying or hiding it.  I personally think they are responsible for the problems of the RChurch today as much as the liberals are.  See, the straight and narrow path is in the middle,

If by "the middle" you mean the neo-conservative Catholics, then I must say that they can be quite problematic too. Actually, one of the (few?) things I like about the SSPX is their keen ability to point out the problems of the neo-conservatives.

If I think the middle can be found in the Roman Catholic Church, shouldn't I still be Roman Catholic right now?
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: choy on February 14, 2013, 04:27:46 AM
They (SSPX) have a purpose

So does Judas.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Peter J on February 14, 2013, 09:55:29 AM
You certainly have it out for these guys. Though, yes, I agree. In this particular situation, they are being overly stubborn. Though, given their fear of the state of certain diocese in the Church, I understand why. If I were a traditionalist, say in Boston, I would be very careful.

Definitely, and I'm not denying or hiding it.  I personally think they are responsible for the problems of the RChurch today as much as the liberals are.  See, the straight and narrow path is in the middle,

If by "the middle" you mean the neo-conservative Catholics, then I must say that they can be quite problematic too. Actually, one of the (few?) things I like about the SSPX is their keen ability to point out the problems of the neo-conservatives.

If I think the middle can be found in the Roman Catholic Church, shouldn't I still be Roman Catholic right now?

:)

Oh wait ...
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Papist on February 14, 2013, 11:11:04 AM
You certainly have it out for these guys. Though, yes, I agree. In this particular situation, they are being overly stubborn. Though, given their fear of the state of certain diocese in the Church, I understand why. If I were a traditionalist, say in Boston, I would be very careful.

We'll be okay.  :) As a matter of fact, I was at Boston's Cathedral of the Holy Cross tonight for Ash Wednesday Mass---according to the Extraordinary Form. The celebrant was a Franciscan Friar of the Primitive Observance, who are based in this Archdiocese. There's lot of opportunities for the traditional Mass around here, and there are some reverent Novus Ordo parishes and shrines in the city and plenty of opportunities for confession and adoration. There's the renowned Archdiocesan Choir School of boys at St. Paul's in Harvard Square (where we in the Harvard Univ. Knights of Columbus have been sponsoring traditional Masses). Boston also has an Anglican Use church and lots of Eastern Catholic churches.

Now that I think of it, I don't know where (or if) the SSPX have a presence here. After all, who needs the SSPX when you have the Feeneyites (who are now regularized and located out in Still River, Mass.)?  ;)  http://www.saintbenedict.com/

Now, the SSPX does have a huge presence in my hometown diocese in upstate New York, and considering the appalling state of that place, I don't begrudge them for a minute. They have a purpose, and the sooner the canonical stuff is settled, the better.
I don't begrude them that either. :)
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Papist on February 14, 2013, 11:11:49 AM
You certainly have it out for these guys. Though, yes, I agree. In this particular situation, they are being overly stubborn. Though, given their fear of the state of certain diocese in the Church, I understand why. If I were a traditionalist, say in Boston, I would be very careful.

Definitely, and I'm not denying or hiding it.  I personally think they are responsible for the problems of the RChurch today as much as the liberals are.  See, the straight and narrow path is in the middle,

If by "the middle" you mean the neo-conservative Catholics, then I must say that they can be quite problematic too. Actually, one of the (few?) things I like about the SSPX is their keen ability to point out the problems of the neo-conservatives.

If I think the middle can be found in the Roman Catholic Church, shouldn't I still be Roman Catholic right now?
Yes you sould. But that's another conversation altogether.  ;D
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: J Michael on February 14, 2013, 11:16:27 AM
You certainly have it out for these guys. Though, yes, I agree. In this particular situation, they are being overly stubborn. Though, given their fear of the state of certain diocese in the Church, I understand why. If I were a traditionalist, say in Boston, I would be very careful.

Definitely, and I'm not denying or hiding it.  I personally think they are responsible for the problems of the RChurch today as much as the liberals are.  See, the straight and narrow path is in the middle,

If by "the middle" you mean the neo-conservative Catholics, then I must say that they can be quite problematic too. Actually, one of the (few?) things I like about the SSPX is their keen ability to point out the problems of the neo-conservatives.

If I think the middle can be found in the Roman Catholic Church, shouldn't I still be Roman Catholic right now?

Maybe you just haven't looked hard enough.... ;)? 
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: J Michael on February 14, 2013, 11:18:02 AM
They (SSPX) have a purpose

So does Judas.

So does my cat Ziggy  ;D.

So does...............well, you name it.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: biro on February 14, 2013, 11:36:42 AM
Noted: the Pope has a cat.

Does the next Pope inherit the cat? Or does the College of Cardinals elect a new one?
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Jetavan on February 14, 2013, 11:40:29 AM
Noted: the Pope has a cat.

Does the next Pope inherit the cat? Or does the College of Cardinals elect a new one?
No need to be dogmatic about it.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: choy on February 14, 2013, 12:11:13 PM
Noted: the Pope has a cat.

Does the next Pope inherit the cat? Or does the College of Cardinals elect a new one?
No need to be DOGmatic about it.

Fixed!!!
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: CoptoGeek on February 14, 2013, 12:26:14 PM
Noted: the Pope has a cat.

Does the next Pope inherit the cat? Or does the College of Cardinals elect a new one?
No need to be DOGmatic about it.

Fixed!!!

Nice!
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: James2 on February 14, 2013, 12:42:02 PM
Noted: the Pope has a cat.

Does the next Pope inherit the cat? Or does the College of Cardinals elect a new one?
No need to be DOGmatic about it.

Fixed!!!

Nice!

Which raises the question, is CATholic DOGma a contradiction in terms?  :D
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: minasoliman on February 14, 2013, 12:44:05 PM
Noted: the Pope has a cat.

Does the next Pope inherit the cat? Or does the College of Cardinals elect a new one?
No need to be DOGmatic about it.

Fixed!!!

Nice!

Which raises the question, is CATholic DOGma a contradiction in terms?  :D
touche
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: brastaseptim on February 15, 2013, 01:55:10 AM
Hmmm... personally, I've always like the idea of an African Pope being elected. Instead of shouting "Habemus Papam", the college of cardinals can hold him above the Vatican balcony while Lebo M. starts singing "Circle of Life."  ;D
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Shiny on February 15, 2013, 05:33:02 AM
"True Catholics always pull out early." -Pope Benedict XVI

 :police:

So whose picking him up in free agency? The Cardinals or Saints?
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Jetavan on February 15, 2013, 08:13:27 AM
"True Catholics always pull out early." -Pope Benedict XVI

 :police:

So whose picking him up in free agency? The Cardinals or Saints?
The Angels.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Jetavan on February 15, 2013, 08:15:44 AM
"Earlier this week, I suggested that because the end of Benedict XVI’s papacy (http://ncronline.org/blogs/ncr-today/critical-tone-among-cardinals-begins-emerge) is not occurring in tandem with his death, it may create greater psychological space for cardinals to take a critical look at the pontificate, without fear of speaking ill of the late pontiff.

A small confirmation of that theory has come in the form of an interview given to a German newspaper by Cardinal Joachim Meisner of Cologne, one of Benedict’s closest friends in the College of Cardinals.
....
In response to another question, Meisner said the next pope should have Benedict’s intellectual and cultural depth, but be a younger man – “No more than 70,” he’s quoted as saying."
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Peter J on February 15, 2013, 01:47:19 PM
"True Catholics always pull out early." -Pope Benedict XVI

 :police:

If you mean this as a reference to NFP, then you don't understand NFP at all. Just saying.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: J Michael on February 15, 2013, 01:52:51 PM
"True Catholics always pull out early." -Pope Benedict XVI

 :police:

If you mean this as a reference to NFP, then you don't understand NFP at all. Just saying.

The lack of a citation for the quote should tell you something.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Jetavan on February 15, 2013, 01:55:57 PM
"True Catholics always pull out early." -Pope Benedict XVI

 :police:

If you mean this as a reference to NFP, then you don't understand NFP at all. Just saying.
I think coitus interruptus is a sin, in Catholicism.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: J Michael on February 15, 2013, 02:03:29 PM
"True Catholics always pull out early." -Pope Benedict XVI




Since you attributed, by way of quotation marks, the above highlighted words to Pope Benedict XVI, would you be so kind as to cite the source?
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: choy on February 15, 2013, 02:41:09 PM
So whose picking him up in free agency? The Cardinals or Saints?

The Cardinals (NFL) are in heresy.  Look at their coach.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: That person on February 15, 2013, 03:05:04 PM
"True Catholics always pull out early." -Pope Benedict XVI




Since you attributed, by way of quotation marks, the above highlighted words to Pope Benedict XVI, would you be so kind as to cite the source?
I believe it was just a joke.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Peter J on February 15, 2013, 03:12:30 PM
"True Catholics always pull out early." -Pope Benedict XVI

 :police:

If you mean this as a reference to NFP, then you don't understand NFP at all. Just saying.
I think coitus interruptus is a sin, in Catholicism.

Exactly.

I believe it was just a joke.

I'm quite certain it was (which is why I didn't take him to task putting words in the pope's mouth) as suggested by the ":police:" but I still wanted to set the record straight.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: J Michael on February 15, 2013, 03:53:05 PM
"True Catholics always pull out early." -Pope Benedict XVI

 :police:

If you mean this as a reference to NFP, then you don't understand NFP at all. Just saying.
I think coitus interruptus is a sin, in Catholicism.

Exactly.

I believe it was just a joke.

I'm quite certain it was (which is why I didn't take him to task putting words in the pope's mouth) as suggested by the ":police:" but I still wanted to set the record straight.

Oh, I'm pretty sure he meant it as a joke.  Some jokes, however, are more tasteful than others.  This one was in particularly bad taste, imho.  That's why I called him on it.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Cyrillic on February 15, 2013, 03:54:06 PM
Pope Benedict XVI pulled out early too out of the papacy.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: choy on February 15, 2013, 04:14:15 PM
Pope Benedict XVI pulled out early too out of the papacy.

 ;D

Post of the Month candidate?  ;D
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Shiny on February 15, 2013, 04:14:29 PM
Yeah it's a joke.

And the reason why I made it is because I know how controversial different forms of birth control are to RCs.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: J Michael on February 15, 2013, 04:35:17 PM
Yeah it's a joke.

And the reason why I made it is because I know how controversial different forms of birth control are to RCs.

So, you're just stirring things up in a tasteless manner about a topic that is pretty irrelevant to Pope Benedict resigning?  Got it.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Schultz on February 15, 2013, 04:39:25 PM
"True Catholics always pull out early." -Pope Benedict XVI

 :police:

If you mean this as a reference to NFP, then you don't understand NFP at all. Just saying.
I think coitus interruptus is a sin, in Catholicism.

Exactly.

I believe it was just a joke.

I'm quite certain it was (which is why I didn't take him to task putting words in the pope's mouth) as suggested by the ":police:" but I still wanted to set the record straight.

Oh, I'm pretty sure he meant it as a joke.  Some jokes, however, are more tasteful than others.  This one was in particularly bad taste, imho.  That's why I called him on it.

It's not in bad taste.

It's just plain bad.  Like really bad.  Like someone should be pulling him off stage with a big hook bad.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: J Michael on February 15, 2013, 04:45:33 PM
"True Catholics always pull out early." -Pope Benedict XVI

 :police:

If you mean this as a reference to NFP, then you don't understand NFP at all. Just saying.
I think coitus interruptus is a sin, in Catholicism.

Exactly.

I believe it was just a joke.

I'm quite certain it was (which is why I didn't take him to task putting words in the pope's mouth) as suggested by the ":police:" but I still wanted to set the record straight.

Oh, I'm pretty sure he meant it as a joke.  Some jokes, however, are more tasteful than others.  This one was in particularly bad taste, imho.  That's why I called him on it.

It's not in bad taste.

It's just plain bad.  Like really bad.  Like someone should be pulling him off stage with a big hook bad.

Yeah, it is in bad taste and offensive.  AND it's really bad.  
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: choy on February 15, 2013, 04:47:31 PM
Pope Benedict XVI pulled out early too out of the papacy.

On another note, you can't make that claim.  Pope Benedict infallibly declared he pulled out of the papacy at the right time  ;D
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Jetavan on February 15, 2013, 05:01:56 PM
Quote
Benedict XVI, who as Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger (http://ncronline.org/blogs/all-things-catholic/quick-course-conclave-101) was asked on Bavarian television in 1997 if the Holy Spirit is responsible for who gets elected. This was his response:

I would not say so, in the sense that the Holy Spirit picks out the Pope. ... I would say that the Spirit does not exactly take control of the affair, but rather like a good educator, as it were, leaves us much space, much freedom, without entirely abandoning us. Thus the Spirit's role should be understood in a much more elastic sense, not that he dictates the candidate for whom one must vote. Probably the only assurance he offers is that the thing cannot be totally ruined.

Then the clincher:

There are too many contrary instances of popes the Holy Spirit obviously would not have picked!
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Arachne on February 15, 2013, 05:04:43 PM
Noted: the Pope has a cat.

Does the next Pope inherit the cat? Or does the College of Cardinals elect a new one?

Is it the Pope's cat or the Vatican cat? Like, you know, official 10 Downing St. cat, with lifelong tenure?
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Peter J on February 15, 2013, 05:13:26 PM
"True Catholics always pull out early." -Pope Benedict XVI

 :police:

If you mean this as a reference to NFP, then you don't understand NFP at all. Just saying.
I think coitus interruptus is a sin, in Catholicism.

Exactly.

I believe it was just a joke.

I'm quite certain it was (which is why I didn't take him to task putting words in the pope's mouth) as suggested by the ":police:" but I still wanted to set the record straight.

Oh, I'm pretty sure he meant it as a joke.  Some jokes, however, are more tasteful than others.  This one was in particularly bad taste, imho.  That's why I called him on it.

Thanks for the clarification. I was sitting thinking I had already done that.   :-X  8)
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: J Michael on February 15, 2013, 05:15:11 PM
"True Catholics always pull out early." -Pope Benedict XVI

 :police:

If you mean this as a reference to NFP, then you don't understand NFP at all. Just saying.
I think coitus interruptus is a sin, in Catholicism.

Exactly.

I believe it was just a joke.

I'm quite certain it was (which is why I didn't take him to task putting words in the pope's mouth) as suggested by the ":police:" but I still wanted to set the record straight.

Oh, I'm pretty sure he meant it as a joke.  Some jokes, however, are more tasteful than others.  This one was in particularly bad taste, imho.  That's why I called him on it.

Thanks for the clarification. I was sitting thinking I had already done that.   :-X  8)

You did, and rightly so, too.  I just wanted to add to it.  You know, for emphasis.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: choy on February 15, 2013, 05:42:15 PM
Quote
Benedict XVI, who as Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger (http://ncronline.org/blogs/all-things-catholic/quick-course-conclave-101) was asked on Bavarian television in 1997 if the Holy Spirit is responsible for who gets elected. This was his response:

I would not say so, in the sense that the Holy Spirit picks out the Pope. ... I would say that the Spirit does not exactly take control of the affair, but rather like a good educator, as it were, leaves us much space, much freedom, without entirely abandoning us. Thus the Spirit's role should be understood in a much more elastic sense, not that he dictates the candidate for whom one must vote. Probably the only assurance he offers is that the thing cannot be totally ruined.

Then the clincher:

There are too many contrary instances of popes the Holy Spirit obviously would not have picked!

Doesn't this disprove infallibility?
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Jetavan on February 15, 2013, 05:43:53 PM
Quote
Benedict XVI, who as Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger (http://ncronline.org/blogs/all-things-catholic/quick-course-conclave-101) was asked on Bavarian television in 1997 if the Holy Spirit is responsible for who gets elected. This was his response:

I would not say so, in the sense that the Holy Spirit picks out the Pope. ... I would say that the Spirit does not exactly take control of the affair, but rather like a good educator, as it were, leaves us much space, much freedom, without entirely abandoning us. Thus the Spirit's role should be understood in a much more elastic sense, not that he dictates the candidate for whom one must vote. Probably the only assurance he offers is that the thing cannot be totally ruined.

Then the clincher:

There are too many contrary instances of popes the Holy Spirit obviously would not have picked!

Doesn't this disprove infallibility?
Not necessarily. It just means that infallibility works in mysterious ways. :)
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Schultz on February 15, 2013, 05:44:13 PM
Quote
Benedict XVI, who as Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger (http://ncronline.org/blogs/all-things-catholic/quick-course-conclave-101) was asked on Bavarian television in 1997 if the Holy Spirit is responsible for who gets elected. This was his response:

I would not say so, in the sense that the Holy Spirit picks out the Pope. ... I would say that the Spirit does not exactly take control of the affair, but rather like a good educator, as it were, leaves us much space, much freedom, without entirely abandoning us. Thus the Spirit's role should be understood in a much more elastic sense, not that he dictates the candidate for whom one must vote. Probably the only assurance he offers is that the thing cannot be totally ruined.

Then the clincher:

There are too many contrary instances of popes the Holy Spirit obviously would not have picked!

Doesn't this disprove infallibility?

No, because the "bad popes" did not make an infallible declaration and, as such, the Holy Spirit offered assurance that the Church was not totally ruined.

(note, i dont believe this, but this is the argument)
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: J Michael on February 15, 2013, 05:45:21 PM
Quote
Benedict XVI, who as Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger (http://ncronline.org/blogs/all-things-catholic/quick-course-conclave-101) was asked on Bavarian television in 1997 if the Holy Spirit is responsible for who gets elected. This was his response:

I would not say so, in the sense that the Holy Spirit picks out the Pope. ... I would say that the Spirit does not exactly take control of the affair, but rather like a good educator, as it were, leaves us much space, much freedom, without entirely abandoning us. Thus the Spirit's role should be understood in a much more elastic sense, not that he dictates the candidate for whom one must vote. Probably the only assurance he offers is that the thing cannot be totally ruined.

Then the clincher:

There are too many contrary instances of popes the Holy Spirit obviously would not have picked!

Doesn't this disprove infallibility?

No, because the "bad popes" did not make an infallible declaration and, as such, the Holy Spirit offered assurance that the Church was not totally ruined.


Beat me to it.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Jetavan on February 15, 2013, 05:52:00 PM
Quote
Benedict XVI, who as Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger (http://ncronline.org/blogs/all-things-catholic/quick-course-conclave-101) was asked on Bavarian television in 1997 if the Holy Spirit is responsible for who gets elected. This was his response:

I would not say so, in the sense that the Holy Spirit picks out the Pope. ... I would say that the Spirit does not exactly take control of the affair, but rather like a good educator, as it were, leaves us much space, much freedom, without entirely abandoning us. Thus the Spirit's role should be understood in a much more elastic sense, not that he dictates the candidate for whom one must vote. Probably the only assurance he offers is that the thing cannot be totally ruined.

Then the clincher:

There are too many contrary instances of popes the Holy Spirit obviously would not have picked!

Doesn't this disprove infallibility?

No, because the "bad popes" did not make an infallible declaration and, as such, the Holy Spirit offered assurance that the Church was not totally ruined.
Yeah, but is there agreement regarding which particular papal statements are definitely infallible? Everyone agrees on the infallibility of the IC and the Assumption. But I seem to recall many theologians questioning the infallibility of JPII's teachings on a male-only priesthood.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Peter J on February 15, 2013, 06:36:40 PM
Quote
Benedict XVI, who as Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger (http://ncronline.org/blogs/all-things-catholic/quick-course-conclave-101) was asked on Bavarian television in 1997 if the Holy Spirit is responsible for who gets elected. This was his response:

I would not say so, in the sense that the Holy Spirit picks out the Pope. ... I would say that the Spirit does not exactly take control of the affair, but rather like a good educator, as it were, leaves us much space, much freedom, without entirely abandoning us. Thus the Spirit's role should be understood in a much more elastic sense, not that he dictates the candidate for whom one must vote. Probably the only assurance he offers is that the thing cannot be totally ruined.

Then the clincher:

There are too many contrary instances of popes the Holy Spirit obviously would not have picked!

Doesn't this disprove infallibility?

No, because the "bad popes" did not make an infallible declaration and, as such, the Holy Spirit offered assurance that the Church was not totally ruined.
Yeah, but is there agreement regarding which particular papal statements are definitely infallible? Everyone agrees on the infallibility of the IC and the Assumption. But I seem to recall many theologians questioning the infallibility of JPII's teachings on a male-only priesthood.

Who is "everyone"?

P.S. It's a tad odd that your examples only go back to the 19th century.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: choy on February 15, 2013, 06:57:20 PM
So the Holy Spirit is always with the Church but is not always with the Pope who is the visible head of the Church on earth as per RC teaching?
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Nephi on February 15, 2013, 10:30:57 PM
Yeah, but is there agreement regarding which particular papal statements are definitely infallible? Everyone agrees on the infallibility of the IC and the Assumption. But I seem to recall many theologians questioning the infallibility of JPII's teachings on a male-only priesthood.

Who is "everyone"?

P.S. It's a tad odd that your examples only go back to the 19th century.

Vatican I was in the 19th century after all. ;)
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Maria on February 15, 2013, 10:39:49 PM
Yeah, but is there agreement regarding which particular papal statements are definitely infallible? Everyone agrees on the infallibility of the IC and the Assumption. But I seem to recall many theologians questioning the infallibility of JPII's teachings on a male-only priesthood.

Who is "everyone"?

P.S. It's a tad odd that your examples only go back to the 19th century.

Vatican I was in the 19th century after all. ;)

Yes, and the declaration of Papal Infallibility and Papal Supremacy at the final council of Vatican I was greeted by heavenly lightning as was Pope Benedict XVI's resignation.

For some strange reason, Catholics apparently consider the lightning strikes on St. Peter's Dome at the conclusion of Vatican I and at Pope Benedict XVI's resignation to be a sign of Divine approval, but if a person were to be struck dead by lightning, then that would be considered Divine disapproval.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Shiny on February 16, 2013, 12:17:52 AM
"True Catholics always pull out early." -Pope Benedict XVI

 :police:

If you mean this as a reference to NFP, then you don't understand NFP at all. Just saying.
I think coitus interruptus is a sin, in Catholicism.

Exactly.

I believe it was just a joke.

I'm quite certain it was (which is why I didn't take him to task putting words in the pope's mouth) as suggested by the ":police:" but I still wanted to set the record straight.

Oh, I'm pretty sure he meant it as a joke.  Some jokes, however, are more tasteful than others.  This one was in particularly bad taste, imho.  That's why I called him on it.

It's not in bad taste.

It's just plain bad.  Like really bad.  Like someone should be pulling him off stage with a big hook bad.
Thank you for keeping me humble Schultz.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: ialmisry on February 16, 2013, 12:55:34 AM
Fr. Johannes L. Jacobse: An Orthodox Priest Reflects on the Retirement of Pope Benedict XVI
http://www.catholic.org/national/national_story.php?id=49721
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: primuspilus on February 18, 2013, 12:50:55 PM
Quote
For some strange reason, Catholics apparently consider the lightning strikes on St. Peter's Dome at the conclusion of Vatican I and at Pope Benedict XVI's resignation to be a sign of Divine approval, but if a person were to be struck dead by lightning, then that would be considered Divine disapproval
Silliness. It was just another lightning strike. Lightning hits the Vatican all the time. It has a huge lightning rod on top of it.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: James2 on February 18, 2013, 01:44:36 PM
Quote
For some strange reason, Catholics apparently consider the lightning strikes on St. Peter's Dome at the conclusion of Vatican I and at Pope Benedict XVI's resignation to be a sign of Divine approval, but if a person were to be struck dead by lightning, then that would be considered Divine disapproval
Silliness. It was just another lightning strike. Lightning hits the Vatican all the time. It has a huge lightning rod on top of it.

Installed in the 19th century by Cardinal von Frankenstein, no doubt.  :D
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Charles Martel on February 18, 2013, 01:49:27 PM
Quote
For some strange reason, Catholics apparently consider the lightning strikes on St. Peter's Dome at the conclusion of Vatican I and at Pope Benedict XVI's resignation to be a sign of Divine approval, but if a person were to be struck dead by lightning, then that would be considered Divine disapproval
Silliness. It was just another lightning strike. Lightning hits the Vatican all the time. It has a huge lightning rod on top of it.
I've seen and heard more non-Catholics make a big deal out of that lighting strike than Catholics themselves.

People want to see signs and wonders in everything.

It was just a stupid lighting bolt, nothing else.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: rakovsky on February 18, 2013, 01:52:24 PM
Installed in the 19th century by Cardinal von Frankenstein, no doubt.  :D
Is that the elderly one who accidentally decreed the preservation of a Popol Vuh instead of a Papal Bull, by mumbling to his counselor?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Popol_Vuh







(joke)
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Irish Melkite on February 18, 2013, 09:24:52 PM
Just an observation ... the resignation of Pope Benedict has elicited more discussion on this forum - and has resulted in more generally positive remarks about the man and his tenure - than on any of the Catholic fora which I've perused. I have to say that such gives a lot of credence to the positive remarks I've made about the underlying ethos of the Orthodox community here over the years.

Many years,

Neil
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: choy on February 18, 2013, 09:26:42 PM
Just an observation ... the resignation of Pope Benedict has elicited more discussion on this forum - and has resulted in more generally positive remarks about the man and his tenure - than on any of the Catholic fora which I've perused. I have to say that such gives a lot of credence to the positive remarks I've made about the underlying ethos of the Orthodox community here over the years.

Many years,

Neil

Even between RCs and ECs, ECs tend to love the Pope more even though many would deny his universal ordinary jurisdiction and infallibility.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Romaios on February 18, 2013, 09:36:45 PM
I've seen and heard more non-Catholics make a big deal out of that lighting strike than Catholics themselves.

People want to see signs and wonders in everything.

It was just a stupid lighting bolt, nothing else.

Quote
Fine anni vulgantur prodigia imminentium malorum nuntia: vis fulgurum non alias crebrior, et sidus cometes, sanguine inlustri semper [Neroni] expiatum; bicipites hominum aliorumve animalium partus abiecti in publicum aut in sacrificiis, quibus gravidas hostias immolare mos est, reperti. et in agro Placentino viam propter natus vitulus, cui caput in crure esset; secutaque haruspicum interpretatio, parari rerum humanarum aliud caput, sed non fore validum neque occultum, quin in utero repressum aut iter iuxta editum sit.

At the close of the year people talked much about prodigies, presaging impending evils. Never were lightning flashes more frequent, and a comet too appeared [Chelyabinsk meteor, anyone?], for which Nero always made propitiation with noble blood. Human and other births with two heads were exposed to public view, or were discovered in those sacrifices in which it is usual to immolate victims in a pregnant condition. And in the district of Placentia, close to the road, a calf was born with its head attached to its leg. Then followed an explanation of the diviners, that another head was preparing for the world, which however would be neither mighty nor hidden, as its growth had been checked in the womb, and it had been born by the wayside.

Tacitus, Annals XV, 47 (http://www.sacred-texts.com/cla/tac/a15040.htm).
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: James2 on February 19, 2013, 06:11:41 PM
Installed in the 19th century by Cardinal von Frankenstein, no doubt.  :D
Is that the elderly one who accidentally decreed the preservation of a Popol Vuh instead of a Papal Bull, by mumbling to his counselor?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Popol_Vuh







(joke)

Sure, why not?

(http://behance.vo.llnwd.net/profiles5/209839/projects/621266/e345421f07f2ca3875096bbb6a8b6c6b.jpg)
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Cyrillic on February 19, 2013, 06:17:04 PM
It's all a load of papal bull :police:
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: biro on February 19, 2013, 06:46:24 PM
How lovely.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: erimos on February 19, 2013, 07:27:59 PM
All proclamations made by the pope are infallible when he makes them, and all of the modifications he makes to his proclamations are also infallible. In other words, all things go.

Consider this, if the pope was installed in his position by the Holy Spirit, he is installed as the Bishop of Rome. Even if he is unable to continue in his role, he remains Pope, because it is the action if the Holy Spirit. Once a living pope is superseded by a second pope, so to speak, then there are two popes in Rome. That means two popes can be infallible at the same time. Can you imagine how much fun that would be?
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Peter J on February 19, 2013, 08:23:35 PM
That means two popes can be infallible at the same time. Can you imagine how much fun that would be?

Shoot, that would be like if St. Peter wrote an infallible book and St. Paul wrote another infallible book!  :o




Oh wait ...
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: choy on February 19, 2013, 08:26:56 PM
All proclamations made by the pope are infallible when he makes them, and all of the modifications he makes to his proclamations are also infallible. In other words, all things go.

Consider this, if the pope was installed in his position by the Holy Spirit, he is installed as the Bishop of Rome. Even if he is unable to continue in his role, he remains Pope, because it is the action if the Holy Spirit. Once a living pope is superseded by a second pope, so to speak, then there are two popes in Rome. That means two popes can be infallible at the same time. Can you imagine how much fun that would be?

Not really.  The Papacy is an office, so if a man vacates that office he doesn't bring infallibility with him.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: choy on February 19, 2013, 08:27:34 PM
That means two popes can be infallible at the same time. Can you imagine how much fun that would be?

Shoot, that would be like if St. Peter wrote an infallible book and St. Paul wrote another infallible book!  :o




Oh wait ...

There is an infallible book?

Sounds Protestant ;)
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Peter J on February 19, 2013, 09:29:32 PM
:D
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Jetavan on February 20, 2013, 09:03:17 PM
Bishop Thomas John Paprocki [STL, JD, JCD] of Springfield in Illinois sent around the following canonical analysis on what to call Pope Benedict when he leaves office on February 28th:

"How then are we to understand the word “Pope?” (http://piadesolenni.com/bp-paprocki-march-madness-how-to-address-b16-after-feb-28/) It is an honorific, even a term of endearment (“Papa” in Italian). It is not the title of an ecclesiastical office. We make this distinction all the time. We still call a priest by the honorific “Father” even after he has resigned from the office of Pastor. Having lived in Italy for three and a half years when I was studying canon law, and having a sense of the culture, I have a feeling the Italians will continue to call Pope Benedict Papa Benedetto even after he leaves office as the Bishop of Rome. So I don’t think people will have a hard time wrapping their minds around having a Pope who is no longer the Roman Pontiff, Bishop of Rome, etc. Certainly, in direct address, one would never address him as anything but, “Your Holiness.”"
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: choy on February 20, 2013, 09:08:20 PM
Bishop Thomas John Paprocki [STL, JD, JCD] of Springfield in Illinois sent around the following canonical analysis on what to call Pope Benedict when he leaves office on February 28th:

"How then are we to understand the word “Pope?” (http://piadesolenni.com/bp-paprocki-march-madness-how-to-address-b16-after-feb-28/) It is an honorific, even a term of endearment (“Papa” in Italian). It is not the title of an ecclesiastical office. We make this distinction all the time. We still call a priest by the honorific “Father” even after he has resigned from the office of Pastor. Having lived in Italy for three and a half years when I was studying canon law, and having a sense of the culture, I have a feeling the Italians will continue to call Pope Benedict Papa Benedetto even after he leaves office as the Bishop of Rome. So I don’t think people will have a hard time wrapping their minds around having a Pope who is no longer the Roman Pontiff, Bishop of Rome, etc. Certainly, in direct address, one would never address him as anything but, “Your Holiness.”"

His Beatitude +Lubomyr is still addressed "His Beatitude" even after resigning as Patriarch of the UGCC.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns
Post by: Hesychios on February 20, 2013, 10:53:55 PM
... I hope that an Eastern Catholic cardinal is elected Pope.
I don't what good that could possibly do, except perhaps hasten the absorption of the eastern Catholics into the Latin rite church (a process that proceeds at a furious pace in some parts of the world). That might be a positive to some people depending on one's perspective.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: choy on February 21, 2013, 12:28:14 AM
Or maybe the Eastern Pope will do away with the Roman Rite and just use the Byzantine Rite. ;)
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: dzheremi on February 21, 2013, 12:40:51 AM
I admire your hopefulness, Choy, but I don't think RC ecclesiology is set up for the possibilities you entertain (re: "orthodox" ECCs somehow reforming or changing Rome; I just don't see how it's possible when they are Rome's tributaries in the first place).
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Papist on February 21, 2013, 12:43:37 AM
And the thread descends down the rabbit hole.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: dzheremi on February 21, 2013, 12:51:06 AM
(http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRA6-4GvRcf2tSYMsooSv_utM8VeJ328O4hbTCj7hQDY5Bt0c1z)

By my watch, we still have a ways to go, Papist. Just wait until a new Pope is elected and people do not get their favorite guy (I already know I'm not going to, since Cardinal Arinze is very old).
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: choy on February 21, 2013, 12:58:55 AM
I admire your hopefulness, Choy, but I don't think RC ecclesiology is set up for the possibilities you entertain (re: "orthodox" ECCs somehow reforming or changing Rome; I just don't see how it's possible when they are Rome's tributaries in the first place).

It won't happen through ecclesiology but through the faithfulness of the people to their tradition and faith.  RCs won't convert to Orthodoxy because they won't separate from the Pope.  But if ECs are "orthodox", they will be attracted to it.  We've already have a number of "V2 refugees" in EC parishes.  The more Orthodox an EC parish is, the more it will attract the truly faithful.

I would have never converted straight from RC to Orthodoxy.  ECs gave me that avenue to learn about Orthodoxy.  And had my EC parish been more "orthodox", I may not even have left for Orthodoxy.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: dzheremi on February 21, 2013, 01:02:40 AM
I see. And you would separate the two? (Ecclesiology from faithfulness to tradition)

I don't really get it, but okay. :)
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: choy on February 21, 2013, 01:06:55 AM
I see. And you would separate the two? (Ecclesiology from faithfulness to tradition)

I don't really get it, but okay. :)

Do you think you cannot practice your faith just because a bishop is claiming universal ordinary jurisdiction?
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: dzheremi on February 21, 2013, 01:16:14 AM
Not necessarily, but when you cannot openly teach against errors embraced and propagated by said infallible and universal bishop and/or his particular church, it does seem to create problems...and cognitive dissonance among those beneath said bishop in such a scheme who happen to know better. ;)
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: android on February 21, 2013, 02:05:19 AM
http://pennpress.typepad.com/pennpresslog/2013/02/benedict-and-st-peter-a-post-by-george-e-demacopoulos.html#more

An interesting post by an orthodox historian
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: choy on February 21, 2013, 04:12:29 AM
Not necessarily, but when you cannot openly teach against errors embraced and propagated by said infallible and universal bishop and/or his particular church, it does seem to create problems...and cognitive dissonance among those beneath said bishop in such a scheme who happen to know better. ;)

The fight wasn't for me, but there are those who recognize the problems but chose to persevere to remain in that communion in the hopes that they can bring about change.  We should pray for such people and support them.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: choy on February 21, 2013, 04:15:45 AM
http://pennpress.typepad.com/pennpresslog/2013/02/benedict-and-st-peter-a-post-by-george-e-demacopoulos.html#more

An interesting post by an orthodox historian

Nice way to promote a book ;)

I would probably buy it too :D
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: dzheremi on February 21, 2013, 04:25:24 AM
Not necessarily, but when you cannot openly teach against errors embraced and propagated by said infallible and universal bishop and/or his particular church, it does seem to create problems...and cognitive dissonance among those beneath said bishop in such a scheme who happen to know better. ;)

The fight wasn't for me, but there are those who recognize the problems but chose to persevere to remain in that communion in the hopes that they can bring about change.  We should pray for such people and support them.

Fair enough. I will pray without holding my breath. :)
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns
Post by: Irish Melkite on February 21, 2013, 07:18:08 AM
... I hope that an Eastern Catholic cardinal is elected Pope.
I don't what good that could possibly do, except perhaps hasten the absorption of the eastern Catholics into the Latin rite church (a process that proceeds at a furious pace in some parts of the world).

Michael, my brother and old friend,

Truer words were never spoken. Prayers that all is well with you.

Many years,

Neil

Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Cyrillic on February 21, 2013, 07:30:45 AM
Or maybe the Eastern Pope will do away with the Roman Rite and just use the Byzantine Rite. ;)

That was what I had in mind. Imagine, millions and millions of people thinking they're watching Christmas Pontifical Mass on TV and suddenly there's an iconostasis and the Pope appears in his omophorion and starts with "Blessed is the Kingdom...". It would be even better if it's in Greek  :)
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: podkarpatska on February 21, 2013, 09:34:39 AM
http://pennpress.typepad.com/pennpresslog/2013/02/benedict-and-st-peter-a-post-by-george-e-demacopoulos.html#more

An interesting post by an orthodox historian

Thanks for the link.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Peter J on February 21, 2013, 10:31:25 AM
I see. And you would separate the two? (Ecclesiology from faithfulness to tradition)

I don't really get it, but okay. :)

Do you think you cannot practice your faith just because a bishop is claiming universal ordinary jurisdiction?

I think the issue is more that he claims it dogmatically.

Not necessarily, but when you cannot openly teach against errors embraced and propagated by said infallible and universal bishop and/or his particular church, it does seem to create problems...and cognitive dissonance among those beneath said bishop in such a scheme who happen to know better. ;)

The fight wasn't for me, but there are those who recognize the problems but chose to persevere to remain in that communion in the hopes that they can bring about change.  We should pray for such people and support them.

Key word being "remain". It's not like I left Orthodoxy for Catholicism.

(Well, key for me anyhow. I'm aware of course that there are many Catholics who say "If I were Orthodox, I would convert to Catholicism.")
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: choy on February 21, 2013, 11:56:58 AM
Or maybe the Eastern Pope will do away with the Roman Rite and just use the Byzantine Rite. ;)

That was what I had in mind. Imagine, millions and millions of people thinking they're watching Christmas Pontifical Mass on TV and suddenly there's an iconostasis and the Pope appears in his omophorion and starts with "Blessed is the Kingdom...". It would be even better if it's in Greek  :)

No.  He should translate the Divine Liturgy in Latin and people wouldn't know the difference between a Tridentine Mass.  Seriously, nobody speaks Latin.  ;D :D
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Monk Vasyl on February 21, 2013, 12:07:29 PM
Or maybe the Eastern Pope will do away with the Roman Rite and just use the Byzantine Rite. ;)

That was what I had in mind. Imagine, millions and millions of people thinking they're watching Christmas Pontifical Mass on TV and suddenly there's an iconostasis and the Pope appears in his omophorion and starts with "Blessed is the Kingdom...". It would be even better if it's in Greek  :)

No.  He should translate the Divine Liturgy in Latin and people wouldn't know the difference between a Tridentine Mass.  Seriously, nobody speaks Latin.  ;D :D

Italians would understand it somewhat.  I studies Latin and Italian in the Franciscan seminary and would often onfuse the 2.  My Latin professor also taught me Latin and always got a good laugh out of my mistakes.  I remember a Catholic priest asking some Italians how they liked the Mass in Italian, they responded, "Wasn't it always in Italian?"
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: ialmisry on February 21, 2013, 12:49:55 PM
Or maybe the Eastern Pope will do away with the Roman Rite and just use the Byzantine Rite. ;)

That was what I had in mind. Imagine, millions and millions of people thinking they're watching Christmas Pontifical Mass on TV and suddenly there's an iconostasis and the Pope appears in his omophorion and starts with "Blessed is the Kingdom...". It would be even better if it's in Greek  :)
Given its present rules, it can happen now.  Question: why doesn't it? ::)
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Cyrillic on February 21, 2013, 01:38:13 PM
Or maybe the Eastern Pope will do away with the Roman Rite and just use the Byzantine Rite. ;)

That was what I had in mind. Imagine, millions and millions of people thinking they're watching Christmas Pontifical Mass on TV and suddenly there's an iconostasis and the Pope appears in his omophorion and starts with "Blessed is the Kingdom...". It would be even better if it's in Greek  :)

No.  He should translate the Divine Liturgy in Latin and people wouldn't know the difference between a Tridentine Mass.  Seriously, nobody speaks Latin.  ;D :D

I do  :o

And did you watch the video of Patriarch John X's enthronement liturgy? One of the supplications was in Latin. So a Latin DL is possible. Erasmus translated the DL in Latin, I think.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Cyrillic on February 21, 2013, 01:38:50 PM
Or maybe the Eastern Pope will do away with the Roman Rite and just use the Byzantine Rite. ;)

That was what I had in mind. Imagine, millions and millions of people thinking they're watching Christmas Pontifical Mass on TV and suddenly there's an iconostasis and the Pope appears in his omophorion and starts with "Blessed is the Kingdom...". It would be even better if it's in Greek  :)
Given its present rules, it can happen now.  Question: why doesn't it? ::)

It has happened in the past.

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-DEbejI2K0xQ/TY6FGsJ-e8I/AAAAAAAACo8/BSq4vfm8yHk/s400/pope%2Bjohn%2Bxxiii%2Bbyzantine.JPG)
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: ialmisry on February 21, 2013, 02:07:30 PM
Or maybe the Eastern Pope will do away with the Roman Rite and just use the Byzantine Rite. ;)

That was what I had in mind. Imagine, millions and millions of people thinking they're watching Christmas Pontifical Mass on TV and suddenly there's an iconostasis and the Pope appears in his omophorion and starts with "Blessed is the Kingdom...". It would be even better if it's in Greek  :)

No.  He should translate the Divine Liturgy in Latin and people wouldn't know the difference between a Tridentine Mass.  Seriously, nobody speaks Latin.  ;D :D

I do  :o

And did you watch the video of Patriarch John X's enthronement liturgy? One of the supplications was in Latin. So a Latin DL is possible. Erasmus translated the DL in Latin, I think.
My priest does all the "inaudible" prayers during DL in Latin, and does the Hours in Latin.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: That person on February 21, 2013, 04:22:08 PM
Or maybe the Eastern Pope will do away with the Roman Rite and just use the Byzantine Rite. ;)

That was what I had in mind. Imagine, millions and millions of people thinking they're watching Christmas Pontifical Mass on TV and suddenly there's an iconostasis and the Pope appears in his omophorion and starts with "Blessed is the Kingdom...". It would be even better if it's in Greek  :)
Given its present rules, it can happen now.  Question: why doesn't it? ::)
Because of the significant price and effort involved in converting thousands of sanctuaries into ones acceptable for use in the Eastern Rites and training priests to practice them?
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: ialmisry on February 21, 2013, 04:30:08 PM
Or maybe the Eastern Pope will do away with the Roman Rite and just use the Byzantine Rite. ;)

That was what I had in mind. Imagine, millions and millions of people thinking they're watching Christmas Pontifical Mass on TV and suddenly there's an iconostasis and the Pope appears in his omophorion and starts with "Blessed is the Kingdom...". It would be even better if it's in Greek  :)
Given its present rules, it can happen now.  Question: why doesn't it? ::)
Because of the significant price and effort involved in converting thousands of sanctuaries into ones acceptable for use in the Eastern Rites and training priests to practice them?
I've seen it done many a time, with far less resources than the Vatican has.

Roll out an icon screen across the boundary of the nave and transept, get those "Italo-Greek Albanian Catholics" whose Metropolitan resides in the Vatican (their only remaining monastery is located in Rome), and voila!
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Romaios on February 21, 2013, 04:34:15 PM
Roll out an icon screen across the boundary of the nave and transept, get those "Italo-Greek Albanian Catholics" whose Metropolitan resides in the Vatican (their only remaining monastery is located in Rome), and voila!

Not much left there...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXhybe--Ovs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXhybe--Ovs)

This is their commercial video: Basilian Monks of Grottaferrata (http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=5onyF8zcXHk&feature=endscreen)
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: sheenj on February 21, 2013, 04:35:14 PM
Or maybe the Eastern Pope will do away with the Roman Rite and just use the Byzantine Rite. ;)

That was what I had in mind. Imagine, millions and millions of people thinking they're watching Christmas Pontifical Mass on TV and suddenly there's an iconostasis and the Pope appears in his omophorion and starts with "Blessed is the Kingdom...". It would be even better if it's in Greek  :)
Given its present rules, it can happen now.  Question: why doesn't it? ::)
Because of the significant price and effort involved in converting thousands of sanctuaries into ones acceptable for use in the Eastern Rites and training priests to practice them?

NVM, did not read context...
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: choy on February 21, 2013, 05:20:22 PM
Or maybe the Eastern Pope will do away with the Roman Rite and just use the Byzantine Rite. ;)

That was what I had in mind. Imagine, millions and millions of people thinking they're watching Christmas Pontifical Mass on TV and suddenly there's an iconostasis and the Pope appears in his omophorion and starts with "Blessed is the Kingdom...". It would be even better if it's in Greek  :)
Given its present rules, it can happen now.  Question: why doesn't it? ::)
Because of the significant price and effort involved in converting thousands of sanctuaries into ones acceptable for use in the Eastern Rites and training priests to practice them?

Just give them a book with the rubrics to follow.  I heard RC priests are very good at following rubrics.


 ::)
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: ialmisry on February 21, 2013, 05:41:36 PM
Roll out an icon screen across the boundary of the nave and transept, get those "Italo-Greek Albanian Catholics" whose Metropolitan resides in the Vatican (their only remaining monastery is located in Rome), and voila!

Not much left there...

therein lies a cautionary tale.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Monk Vasyl on February 21, 2013, 05:41:54 PM
Or maybe the Eastern Pope will do away with the Roman Rite and just use the Byzantine Rite. ;)

That was what I had in mind. Imagine, millions and millions of people thinking they're watching Christmas Pontifical Mass on TV and suddenly there's an iconostasis and the Pope appears in his omophorion and starts with "Blessed is the Kingdom...". It would be even better if it's in Greek  :)

Given its present rules, it can happen now.  Question: why doesn't it? ::)
Because of the significant price and effort involved in converting thousands of sanctuaries into ones acceptable for use in the Eastern Rites and training priests to practice them?

Just give them a book with the rubrics to follow.  I heard RC priests are very good at following rubrics.


 ::)

HA!  Not since Vatican II.  When I was with the Franciscans, I was working on my Masters in Liturgical Studies at Notre Dame.  We were told if a priest wanted to "experiment" with the Liturgy, there were enough options in the liturgical books to use.  The Guardian at our friary, refused to follow the rubrics and did whatever he felt like, which drove me crazy, and finally pushed me out of the Franciscans and out of the Catholic church into Orthodoxy.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: choy on February 21, 2013, 05:57:31 PM
HA!  Not since Vatican II.  When I was with the Franciscans, I was working on my Masters in Liturgical Studies at Notre Dame.  We were told if a priest wanted to "experiment" with the Liturgy, there were enough options in the liturgical books to use.  The Guardian at our friary, refused to follow the rubrics and did whatever he felt like, which drove me crazy, and finally pushed me out of the Franciscans and out of the Catholic church into Orthodoxy.

So I guess no open door Anaphoras for you?
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Jetavan on February 21, 2013, 06:47:09 PM
Rev. James Martin, S.J. (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rev-james-martin-sj/12-pretty-good-reasons-why-i-should-be-pope_b_2735852.html?utm_hp_ref=religion):

Quote
Here are 12 reasons why you should elect me pope, which I'm calling: Twelve Reasons Why You Should Elect Me Pope.

1. I'm a man. That's half the battle, right?

2. I'm baptized. And I've got the papers to prove it. No birther controversy here.
....
9. Educated. The Jesuit training process is really, really, really long. I can't even remember how many years I was in studies. That means that I studied philosophy (good to know), theology (really good to know) and a whole lot of other stuff like church history, which I think would be pretty helpful as pope. And guess what? I know Ancient Greek, too. That really impresses the scholarly types in the church. E.g., when scholars ask me, "What translation of the New Testament are you using?" I'll say, "My translation." They love that kind of thing. Plus, that appeals to the Ancient-Greek-speaking demographic that the church may have given up on.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Romaios on February 21, 2013, 07:28:13 PM
Roll out an icon screen across the boundary of the nave and transept, get those "Italo-Greek Albanian Catholics" whose Metropolitan resides in the Vatican (their only remaining monastery is located in Rome), and voila!

Not much left there...

therein lies a cautionary tale.

Chevetogne (Belgium) seems to be doing much better.


Monastère de Chevetogne (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2V_uptysww)
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: orthros on February 22, 2013, 01:48:26 AM
Or maybe the Eastern Pope will do away with the Roman Rite and just use the Byzantine Rite. ;)

That was what I had in mind. Imagine, millions and millions of people thinking they're watching Christmas Pontifical Mass on TV and suddenly there's an iconostasis and the Pope appears in his omophorion and starts with "Blessed is the Kingdom...". It would be even better if it's in Greek  :)
Given its present rules, it can happen now.  Question: why doesn't it? ::)

It has happened in the past.

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-DEbejI2K0xQ/TY6FGsJ-e8I/AAAAAAAACo8/BSq4vfm8yHk/s400/pope%2Bjohn%2Bxxiii%2Bbyzantine.JPG)

Wow, nice pic.  Which Pope is that?
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: biro on February 22, 2013, 04:22:18 AM
With that headgear, I think Pope Paul VI. But I'm guessing.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Cyrillic on February 22, 2013, 04:26:35 AM
Or maybe the Eastern Pope will do away with the Roman Rite and just use the Byzantine Rite. ;)

That was what I had in mind. Imagine, millions and millions of people thinking they're watching Christmas Pontifical Mass on TV and suddenly there's an iconostasis and the Pope appears in his omophorion and starts with "Blessed is the Kingdom...". It would be even better if it's in Greek  :)
Given its present rules, it can happen now.  Question: why doesn't it? ::)

It has happened in the past.

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-DEbejI2K0xQ/TY6FGsJ-e8I/AAAAAAAACo8/BSq4vfm8yHk/s400/pope%2Bjohn%2Bxxiii%2Bbyzantine.JPG)

Wow, nice pic.  Which Pope is that?

John XXXIII
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: choy on February 22, 2013, 04:40:26 AM
John XXXIII

I didn't realize there were that many Popes named John as of today.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: orthros on February 22, 2013, 08:26:14 AM
John XXXIII

I didn't realize there were that many Popes named John as of today.

I can't tell if you're joking (the joys of the internet!)  :angel: but Cyrillic put in one too many "X"s.  He meant John XXIII.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Cyrillic on February 22, 2013, 08:29:37 AM
John XXXIII

I didn't realize there were that many Popes named John as of today.

I can't tell if you're joking (the joys of the internet!)  :angel: but Cyrillic put in one too many "X"s.  He meant John XXIII.

Oops  :-[
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: ialmisry on February 22, 2013, 09:16:46 AM
John XXXIII

I didn't realize there were that many Popes named John as of today.

I can't tell if you're joking (the joys of the internet!)  :angel: but Cyrillic put in one too many "X"s.  He meant John XXIII.
Although there have been more: the late supreme pontiff specifically took the XXIII to make the real Pope John XXIII (1410–1415) an "anti-pope" five centuries and a half after his papacy.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Iconodule on February 22, 2013, 09:23:27 AM
Or maybe the Eastern Pope will do away with the Roman Rite and just use the Byzantine Rite. ;)

That was what I had in mind. Imagine, millions and millions of people thinking they're watching Christmas Pontifical Mass on TV and suddenly there's an iconostasis and the Pope appears in his omophorion and starts with "Blessed is the Kingdom...". It would be even better if it's in Greek  :)
Given its present rules, it can happen now.  Question: why doesn't it? ::)

It has happened in the past.

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-DEbejI2K0xQ/TY6FGsJ-e8I/AAAAAAAACo8/BSq4vfm8yHk/s400/pope%2Bjohn%2Bxxiii%2Bbyzantine.JPG)

He seems to be looking at the guy in front of him, murmuring, "Am I holding these right?" "You're holding them fine but you've dripped some wax down the back of my neck."
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Monk Vasyl on February 22, 2013, 09:47:01 AM
Pope John Paul II, also celebrated the divine Liturgy with the Ukrainians, but wore Latin Rite vestments:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LQDaRZKzU0&playnext=1&list=PL121DCD9C9C7A16D3&feature=results_main (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LQDaRZKzU0&playnext=1&list=PL121DCD9C9C7A16D3&feature=results_main)
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Peter J on February 22, 2013, 10:11:03 AM
John XXXIII

I didn't realize there were that many Popes named John as of today.

I can't tell if you're joking (the joys of the internet!)  :angel: but Cyrillic put in one too many "X"s.  He meant John XXIII.
Although there have been more: the late supreme pontiff specifically took the XXIII to make the real Pope John XXIII (1410–1415) an "anti-pope" five centuries and a half after his papacy.

I don't know if this branch will sprout, but in case it does I've started a thread Ialmisry on Anti-Pope John XXIII (http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,50136.msg886761.html).
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Charles Martel on February 24, 2013, 11:10:54 AM
Pope, on last Sunday, says following God's wishes

The Lord is calling me to climb onto the mountain, to dedicate myself even more to prayer and meditation," he said to cheers of "Long Live the Pope".

"But this does not mean abandoning the Church. Actually, if God asks this of me, it is precisely because I can continue to serve her with the same dedication and the same love I have shown so far," he said.

But he said he would be serving the Church "in a way more in keeping with my age and my forces".


http://news.yahoo.com/pope-last-sunday-says-following-gods-wishes-142139668.html
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: choy on February 24, 2013, 11:59:03 AM
What if they elect him again?
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Peter J on February 24, 2013, 02:33:14 PM
What if they elect him again?

:D
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: mike on February 24, 2013, 02:37:18 PM
What if they elect him again?

Or if they elect Patriarch Cyrill?
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: biro on February 24, 2013, 02:59:36 PM
What if they elect him again?

Or if they elect Patriarch Cyrill?

Huzzah!
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: orthonorm on February 24, 2013, 03:44:30 PM
What if they elect him again?

I know you are being clever, but a question for the RC experts, can someone choose not serve (or whatever word is most appropriate) as Pope. If the office is declined, is there a penance?
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: William on February 24, 2013, 04:57:56 PM
Choose your pope! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrzfbbgJu8M)
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: podkarpatska on February 24, 2013, 07:46:30 PM
Choose your pope! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrzfbbgJu8M)

The folks posting that apparently are (1): not aware of what constitutes satire and (2): I would hate to see what they think of us Orthodox.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: choy on February 24, 2013, 08:18:15 PM
I mean, soon to be Cardinal Ratzinger again is the most qualified to be Pope.  Aside from being a well respected theologian in and outside of the Roman Catholic Church, his experience as Pope is unparalleled by any other living bishop today.  ;)
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: William on February 24, 2013, 08:22:44 PM
Choose your pope! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrzfbbgJu8M)

The folks posting that apparently are (1): not aware of what constitutes satire and (2): I would hate to see what they think of us Orthodox.

Well from stuff I've read on his blog he kind of has dumb ideas about how Orthodoxy "rejects the atonement" or something. But his videos are funny.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Papist on February 25, 2013, 10:22:22 AM
What if they elect him again?

(http://wdtprs.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/reelect_02-copy2.png)
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Peter J on February 25, 2013, 04:10:30 PM
What if they elect him again?

Cool. It's been a while since we had a two-term pope.  8)
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: FormerReformer on February 25, 2013, 04:29:54 PM
Choose your pope! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrzfbbgJu8M)

The folks posting that apparently are (1): not aware of what constitutes satire and (2): I would hate to see what they think of us Orthodox.

I don't know, aside from the jab in the credits (and the show is Lutheran Satire), it was remarkably positive toward the Roman Catholic Church's traditional stance. As far as a satire goes, it was a dead-on shot at a lot of the really inane statements made by the peanut gallery (I include us Orthodox OC.netters in that category) as to what is needed in the next pope. More ire was directed at the Episcopal Church and Glee than at the Vatican- and I am totally okay with that.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Carl Kraeff (Second Chance) on February 25, 2013, 05:06:58 PM
Or maybe the Eastern Pope will do away with the Roman Rite and just use the Byzantine Rite. ;)

That was what I had in mind. Imagine, millions and millions of people thinking they're watching Christmas Pontifical Mass on TV and suddenly there's an iconostasis and the Pope appears in his omophorion and starts with "Blessed is the Kingdom...". It would be even better if it's in Greek  :)

Actually, it would have more impac if he said it in Italian.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Peter J on February 25, 2013, 06:40:01 PM
More ire was directed at the Episcopal Church and Glee than at the Vatican- and I am totally okay with that.

I am shocked -- shocked -- to learn that criticism of the Episcopal Church is going on here!
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: FormerReformer on February 25, 2013, 06:44:24 PM
More ire was directed at the Episcopal Church and Glee than at the Vatican- and I am totally okay with that.

I am shocked -- shocked -- to learn that criticism of the Episcopal Church is going on here!

Your winnings, sir.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: CoptoGeek on February 26, 2013, 11:58:17 AM
What if they elect him again?

Cool. It's been a while since we had a two-term pope.  8)

Just when I thought I was out...

http://youtu.be/UPw-3e_pzqU
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Cymbyz on February 27, 2013, 02:18:15 AM
Seems I read something to the effect that Nostradamus prophesied that an interloper wouls become the penultimate Pope and cause all sorts of scandal.  Strange, then, that, amid all the scandalmongering now going on around the upcoming conclave, I've heard nothing of this.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: J Michael on February 27, 2013, 12:43:14 PM
Seems I read something to the effect that Nostradamus prophesied that an interloper wouls become the penultimate Pope and cause all sorts of scandal.  Strange, then, that, amid all the scandalmongering now going on around the upcoming conclave, I've heard nothing of this.

Maybe because said "interloper" isn't becoming the penultimate Pope or that Pope BXVI wasn't, either?  When has there not been scandal and mongering associated with the Church?
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: rakovsky on February 27, 2013, 06:15:25 PM
Certainly this made the work of the retiring Pope more difficult:
Quote
Chief exorcist says Devil is in the Vatican

Nick Squires

The evil influence of Satan was evident in the highest ranks of the Catholic hierarchy, with “cardinals who do not believe in Jesus and bishops who are linked to the demon,” Father Amorth [The Vatican's chief exorcist] said.

Recent revelations of “violence and paedophilia” committed by Catholic priests against children in their care was also the work of the Devil, said Father Amorth,

http://bharatabharati.wordpress.com/2011/01/22/chief-exorcist-says-devil-is-in-the-vatican-nick-squires/
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: minasoliman on February 27, 2013, 11:00:11 PM
I liked this part of the speech of His Holiness:

Quote
[These years] have been a stretch of the Church’s pilgrim way, which has seen moments joy and light, but also difficult moments. I have felt like St. Peter with the Apostles in the boat on the Sea of Galilee: the Lord has given us many days of sunshine and gentle breeze, days in which the catch has been abundant; [then] there have been times when the seas were rough and the wind against us, as in the whole history of the Church it has ever been – and the Lord seemed to sleep. Nevertheless, I always knew that the Lord is in the barque, that the barque of the Church is not mine, not ours, but His – and He shall not let her sink. It is He, who steers her: to be sure, he does so also through men of His choosing, for He desired that it be so. This was and is a certainty that nothing can tarnish. It is for this reason, that today my heart is filled with gratitude to God, for never did He leave me or the Church without His consolation, His light, His love.

It sounds really like a lesson for all dioceses and parishes to understand and learn.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Balthasar on February 28, 2013, 11:06:43 AM

As Pope Benedict XVl resigns, The Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church will have its Vl Patriarch, today! Is it just a coincidence that these two occurrences take place on this very day? I truly believe, also in the 21st century, David can beat Golliath.

Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Papist on February 28, 2013, 11:17:20 AM

As Pope Benedict XVl resigns, The Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church will have its Vl Patriarch, today! Is it just a coincidence that these two occurrences take place on this very day? I truly believe, also in the 21st century, David can beat Golliath.


sersiously dude? We're not at war with one another.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Ansgar on February 28, 2013, 11:23:27 AM
Quote
Is it just a coincidence that these two occurrences take place on this very day?

Yes.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Monk Vasyl on February 28, 2013, 12:30:12 PM
I just watched the live feed, His Holiness has arrived at the papal villa at Castel Gandolfo.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: minasoliman on February 28, 2013, 12:50:02 PM

As Pope Benedict XVl resigns, The Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church will have its Vl Patriarch, today! Is it just a coincidence that these two occurrences take place on this very day? I truly believe, also in the 21st century, David can beat Golliath.


sersiously dude? We're not at war with one another.
+1
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Monk Vasyl on February 28, 2013, 01:13:36 PM
I can see the first thing His Holiness does after greeting the people from his balcony is go to his favorite recliner, as his staff brings him his cappuccino.  "Is His Holiness comfortable?"  He answers, "Ack!  All my favorite programs have been preempted for coverage of my resignation."

All kidding, aside, tomorrow it will all sink in and he'll realize he no longer has all these meetings and paper work to deal with.  God bless him i n his retirement.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Peter J on February 28, 2013, 01:15:02 PM
101 minutes until I become a sedevacantist.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Monk Vasyl on February 28, 2013, 01:23:22 PM
101 minutes until I become a sedevacantist.

OY VEY!!!
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Alpo on February 28, 2013, 01:33:35 PM
I'm not Catholic and I'm not planning to become one but in a way I will miss him too. I hope his not going to disappear into the dungeons of Vatican. Has he ever written any kind of biography? I'd love to read one if there is.

The succeeding pope will be the third pope that I see in my lifetime. Man, I feel old now.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Nephi on February 28, 2013, 01:35:15 PM
101 minutes until I become a sedevacantist.

So does that mean that already-sedevacantists become just schismatics instead of heretics as well for a bit? ;)
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Monk Vasyl on February 28, 2013, 01:35:45 PM
Now I've seen everythings! 

“Sweet Sistine” Looks At Papal Candidates
http://fox2now.com/2013/02/28/sweet-sistine-looks-at-papal-candidates/ (http://fox2now.com/2013/02/28/sweet-sistine-looks-at-papal-candidates/)

Look At Papal Candidates

http://www.religionnews.com/2013/02/25/march-madness-make-your-picks-in-the-vaticans-sweet-sistine-brackets/ (http://www.religionnews.com/2013/02/25/march-madness-make-your-picks-in-the-vaticans-sweet-sistine-brackets/)
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: choy on February 28, 2013, 01:40:07 PM
101 minutes until I become a sedevacantist.

Ha!  The Orthodox has been sedevacantists since 1054 ;)
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: choy on February 28, 2013, 01:40:44 PM
101 minutes until I become a sedevacantist.

So does that mean that already-sedevacantists become just schismatics instead of heretics as well for a bit? ;)

No, they all come into communion via the empty Chair of Peter ;)
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: choy on February 28, 2013, 01:41:36 PM
I'm not Catholic and I'm not planning to become one but in a way I will miss him too. I hope his not going to disappear into the dungeons of Vatican. Has he ever written any kind of biography? I'd love to read one if there is.

The succeeding pope will be the third pope that I see in my lifetime. Man, I feel old now.

Why?  Back in the day there was a new Pope every few years.  Pope John Paul II defied the odds by being Pope for over 20 years.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Monk Vasyl on February 28, 2013, 02:01:51 PM
I'm not Catholic and I'm not planning to become one but in a way I will miss him too. I hope his not going to disappear into the dungeons of Vatican. Has he ever written any kind of biography? I'd love to read one if there is.

The succeeding pope will be the third pope that I see in my lifetime. Man, I feel old now.

HA!  This will make 7 when the new pope is elected.  Talk about feeling old.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Papist on February 28, 2013, 02:11:39 PM
101 minutes until I become a sedevacantist.
45 minutes and counting
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Papist on February 28, 2013, 02:12:31 PM
101 minutes until I become a sedevacantist.

So does that mean that already-sedevacantists become just schismatics instead of heretics as well for a bit? ;)

No, they all come into communion via the empty Chair of Peter ;)
Or maybe it means that our communion in the faith is even more fundamental than our communion with the Pope. Just saying.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Papist on February 28, 2013, 02:13:24 PM
I'm not Catholic and I'm not planning to become one but in a way I will miss him too. I hope his not going to disappear into the dungeons of Vatican. Has he ever written any kind of biography? I'd love to read one if there is.

The succeeding pope will be the third pope that I see in my lifetime. Man, I feel old now.
I hope he doesn't disappear. I have a warm place in my heart for this quiet, gentle pope.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: choy on February 28, 2013, 02:16:25 PM
101 minutes until I become a sedevacantist.

So does that mean that already-sedevacantists become just schismatics instead of heretics as well for a bit? ;)

No, they all come into communion via the empty Chair of Peter ;)
Or maybe it means that our communion in the faith is even more fundamental than our communion with the Pope. Just saying.

I'm telling you, come and pick up your "Offical Orthodox" membership card. ;)
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Marc1152 on February 28, 2013, 02:53:13 PM
I watched a You Tube by an Ultra Traditionalist grouplet that makes a pretty good case that Benadict is a Nestorian... They quoted him chapter and verse.. Above my pay grade to fully understand but I will see if I can find it.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Peter J on February 28, 2013, 02:53:39 PM
101 minutes until I become a sedevacantist.
45 minutes and counting

3 minutes.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Schultz on February 28, 2013, 02:55:30 PM
I watched a You Tube by an Ultra Traditionalist grouplet that makes a pretty good case that Benadict is a Nestorian... They quoted him chapter and verse.. Above my pay grade to fully understand but I will see if I can find it.

As the old saying goes, the Devil himself can quote Scripture to make his case.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: choy on February 28, 2013, 03:02:09 PM
I'm not Catholic and I'm not planning to become one but in a way I will miss him too. I hope his not going to disappear into the dungeons of Vatican. Has he ever written any kind of biography? I'd love to read one if there is.

The succeeding pope will be the third pope that I see in my lifetime. Man, I feel old now.
I hope he doesn't disappear. I have a warm place in my heart for this quiet, gentle pope.

'coz he's a traddie? ;)
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: choy on February 28, 2013, 03:02:35 PM
I watched a You Tube by an Ultra Traditionalist grouplet that makes a pretty good case that Benadict is a Nestorian... They quoted him chapter and verse.. Above my pay grade to fully understand but I will see if I can find it.

As the old saying goes, the Devil himself can quote Scripture to make his case.

Yup, we have plenty of that today.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: ialmisry on February 28, 2013, 03:03:10 PM
Well it is now official, non habent papam.
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_tjp5aMeMD2A/S02SqGeLAPI/AAAAAAAAAfk/PjaWyH5ilBI/s320/Vaticano+1E+05+Sede+Vacante+2-a.jpg)
Habemus papam
(http://www.copticworld.org/site_media/media/resized/photo_attachments/2012/12/25/DSC_2591.JPG/600_800_0/DSC_2591.JPG)
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Cyrillic on February 28, 2013, 03:04:44 PM
Habemus papam papas
(http://www.copticworld.org/site_media/media/resized/photo_attachments/2012/12/25/DSC_2591.JPG/600_800_0/DSC_2591.JPG)

fixed it for ya
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: ialmisry on February 28, 2013, 03:04:53 PM
101 minutes until I become a sedevacantist.

So does that mean that already-sedevacantists become just schismatics instead of heretics as well for a bit? ;)

No, they all come into communion via the empty Chair of Peter ;)
Or maybe it means that our communion in the faith is even more fundamental than our communion with the Pope. Just saying.
not what "Pastor Aeternus" says.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: choy on February 28, 2013, 03:07:19 PM
101 minutes until I become a sedevacantist.

So does that mean that already-sedevacantists become just schismatics instead of heretics as well for a bit? ;)

No, they all come into communion via the empty Chair of Peter ;)
Or maybe it means that our communion in the faith is even more fundamental than our communion with the Pope. Just saying.
not what "Pastor Aeternus" says.

Actually it is Unam Sanctam that says that:

"Now, therefore, we declare, say, determine and pronounce that for every human creature it is necessary for salvation to be subject to the authority of the Roman pontiff"
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: ialmisry on February 28, 2013, 03:07:58 PM
Habemus papam papas
(http://www.copticworld.org/site_media/media/resized/photo_attachments/2012/12/25/DSC_2591.JPG/600_800_0/DSC_2591.JPG)

fixed it for ya
not quite.

In Arabic, I pray for the Pope in the dual (in the same way that we say "the two Peters" for "SS. Peter and Paul" and "the two moons" for "the sun and the moon.").
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: ialmisry on February 28, 2013, 03:09:11 PM
101 minutes until I become a sedevacantist.

So does that mean that already-sedevacantists become just schismatics instead of heretics as well for a bit? ;)

No, they all come into communion via the empty Chair of Peter ;)
Or maybe it means that our communion in the faith is even more fundamental than our communion with the Pope. Just saying.
not what "Pastor Aeternus" says.

Actually it is Unam Sanctam that says that:

"Now, therefore, we declare, say, determine and pronounce that for every human creature it is necessary for salvation to be subject to the authority of the Roman pontiff"
well, render unto Caesar (he was pontifex maximus too)...
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_tjp5aMeMD2A/S02SqGeLAPI/AAAAAAAAAfk/PjaWyH5ilBI/s320/Vaticano+1E+05+Sede+Vacante+2-a.jpg)
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: mabsoota on February 28, 2013, 03:09:39 PM
so what would latin be for the dual?
(i am in awe at these 2 linguists!)

i love the photo, by the way.
 :)  :)

(i can smile in the dual!)
 ;)
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Papist on February 28, 2013, 03:14:56 PM
101 minutes until I become a sedevacantist.

So does that mean that already-sedevacantists become just schismatics instead of heretics as well for a bit? ;)

No, they all come into communion via the empty Chair of Peter ;)
Or maybe it means that our communion in the faith is even more fundamental than our communion with the Pope. Just saying.
not what "Pastor Aeternus" says.
Or Isa's interpretation of Pastor Aeternus.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Papist on February 28, 2013, 03:16:57 PM
101 minutes until I become a sedevacantist.

So does that mean that already-sedevacantists become just schismatics instead of heretics as well for a bit? ;)

No, they all come into communion via the empty Chair of Peter ;)
Or maybe it means that our communion in the faith is even more fundamental than our communion with the Pope. Just saying.
not what "Pastor Aeternus" says.

Actually it is Unam Sanctam that says that:

"Now, therefore, we declare, say, determine and pronounce that for every human creature it is necessary for salvation to be subject to the authority of the Roman pontiff"
Do you think that Unam Sanctam does not take into account the instances when there is no Pope. There is currently no Pope. Do you think that that means that according to the Catholic Church, I am now damned?
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: TheMathematician on February 28, 2013, 03:21:43 PM
Habemus papam papas
(http://www.copticworld.org/site_media/media/resized/photo_attachments/2012/12/25/DSC_2591.JPG/600_800_0/DSC_2591.JPG)

fixed it for ya
not quite.

In Arabic, I pray for the Pope in the dual (in the same way that we say "the two Peters" for "SS. Peter and Paul" and "the two moons" for "the sun and the moon.").

Thing is though, the dual number doesn't exist in latin, so it would be the plural.

(I wouldnt put it in the plural, but that is a particular case of my not being in communion with the OO)
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: ialmisry on February 28, 2013, 03:29:04 PM
101 minutes until I become a sedevacantist.

So does that mean that already-sedevacantists become just schismatics instead of heretics as well for a bit? ;)

No, they all come into communion via the empty Chair of Peter ;)
Or maybe it means that our communion in the faith is even more fundamental than our communion with the Pope. Just saying.
not what "Pastor Aeternus" says.

Actually it is Unam Sanctam that says that:

"Now, therefore, we declare, say, determine and pronounce that for every human creature it is necessary for salvation to be subject to the authority of the Roman pontiff"
Do you think that Unam Sanctam does not take into account the instances when there is no Pope. There is currently no Pope. Do you think that that means that according to the Catholic Church, I am now damned?
According to the Catholic Church....
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: minasoliman on February 28, 2013, 03:29:18 PM
Well it is now official, non habent papam.
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_tjp5aMeMD2A/S02SqGeLAPI/AAAAAAAAAfk/PjaWyH5ilBI/s320/Vaticano+1E+05+Sede+Vacante+2-a.jpg)
Habemus papam
(http://www.copticworld.org/site_media/media/resized/photo_attachments/2012/12/25/DSC_2591.JPG/600_800_0/DSC_2591.JPG)

From left to right...Pope Theodore II, Pope Theodore II, .....:P
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: choy on February 28, 2013, 03:30:48 PM
Do you think that Unam Sanctam does not take into account the instances when there is no Pope. There is currently no Pope. Do you think that that means that according to the Catholic Church, I am now damned?

My response was to ialmisry's response to your post where you said that unity is by faith, not to the Pope.  It is clear that the Catholic Church teachest that unity is through the Pope alone.  I guess you can say that if a Pope accepts one into communion then there is a guarantee that is a unity of faith.  But still it is through the Pope.  What if the Orthodox say today that they will accept full Communion with the Roman Catholic Church and accept all her teachings as is, but this offer expires in one week.  Do you think anyone in the Roman Catholic Church can take that offer right now?

As for whether you are saved or damned, I don't know.  It wasn't in the context of the discussion and not something I deeply thought about in that context.  I mean, you are asking a person who was Catholic for 36 years and left, if I truly believed that salvation rested on the Roman Pontiff then why did I go to the Orthodox Church?  Maybe try not dying until the next Pope is elected just to have your bases covered ;)
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: ialmisry on February 28, 2013, 03:31:39 PM
Habemus papam papas
(http://www.copticworld.org/site_media/media/resized/photo_attachments/2012/12/25/DSC_2591.JPG/600_800_0/DSC_2591.JPG)

fixed it for ya
not quite.

In Arabic, I pray for the Pope in the dual (in the same way that we say "the two Peters" for "SS. Peter and Paul" and "the two moons" for "the sun and the moon.").

Thing is though, the dual number doesn't exist in latin, so it would be the plural.

(I wouldnt put it in the plural, but that is a particular case of my not being in communion with the OO)
The dual isn't just used to indicate two.  Sometimes it is used (as I do in the case of the two Popes Theodore II) to indicate identity.ادكر يا رب الباباوين ثيودورسين

Btw, I like this photo:
(http://www.copts-united.com/English/Uploads/755/2%20(8).JPG)
The figure in the center is the Lion of St. Mark the Evangelist.  I like how the Popes sit next to each other with the empty throne, until that day (God grant it soon!) one sits in it.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Peter J on February 28, 2013, 03:32:13 PM
(I wouldnt put it in the plural, but that is a particular case of my not being in communion with the OO)

Ecumenism is only bad if it involves Catholics or protestants. Didn't you know that?

 ;)
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Papist on February 28, 2013, 03:33:14 PM
Do you think that Unam Sanctam does not take into account the instances when there is no Pope. There is currently no Pope. Do you think that that means that according to the Catholic Church, I am now damned?

My response was to ialmisry's response to your post where you said that unity is by faith, not to the Pope.  It is clear that the Catholic Church teachest that unity is through the Pope alone.  I guess you can say that if a Pope accepts one into communion then there is a guarantee that is a unity of faith.  But still it is through the Pope.  What if the Orthodox say today that they will accept full Communion with the Roman Catholic Church and accept all her teachings as is, but this offer expires in one week.  Do you think anyone in the Roman Catholic Church can take that offer right now?

As for whether you are saved or damned, I don't know.  It wasn't in the context of the discussion and not something I deeply thought about in that context.  I mean, you are asking a person who was Catholic for 36 years and left, if I truly believed that salvation rested on the Roman Pontiff then why did I go to the Orthodox Church?  Maybe try not dying until the next Pope is elected just to have your bases covered ;)
Well then you are simply delusional. If unity were "in the Pope alone" as you suggest, then at this moment, there would be not a single member of the Catholic Church. But as it is, there are still over a billion Catholics worldwide, in spite of the fact that there is no Pope with whom were are in communion.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: choy on February 28, 2013, 03:35:11 PM
Do you think that Unam Sanctam does not take into account the instances when there is no Pope. There is currently no Pope. Do you think that that means that according to the Catholic Church, I am now damned?

My response was to ialmisry's response to your post where you said that unity is by faith, not to the Pope.  It is clear that the Catholic Church teachest that unity is through the Pope alone.  I guess you can say that if a Pope accepts one into communion then there is a guarantee that is a unity of faith.  But still it is through the Pope.  What if the Orthodox say today that they will accept full Communion with the Roman Catholic Church and accept all her teachings as is, but this offer expires in one week.  Do you think anyone in the Roman Catholic Church can take that offer right now?

As for whether you are saved or damned, I don't know.  It wasn't in the context of the discussion and not something I deeply thought about in that context.  I mean, you are asking a person who was Catholic for 36 years and left, if I truly believed that salvation rested on the Roman Pontiff then why did I go to the Orthodox Church?  Maybe try not dying until the next Pope is elected just to have your bases covered ;)
Well then you are simply delusional. If unity were "in the Pope alone" as you suggest, then at this moment, there would be not a single member of the Catholic Church. But as it is, there are still over a billion Catholics worldwide, in spite of the fact that there is no Pope with whom were are in communion.

Maybe there is no Roman Catholic Church.  Did you check?
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Peter J on February 28, 2013, 03:36:32 PM
101 minutes until I become a sedevacantist.

So does that mean that already-sedevacantists become just schismatics instead of heretics as well for a bit? ;)

No, they all come into communion via the empty Chair of Peter ;)
Or maybe it means that our communion in the faith is even more fundamental than our communion with the Pope. Just saying.
not what "Pastor Aeternus" says.

Actually it is Unam Sanctam that says that:

"Now, therefore, we declare, say, determine and pronounce that for every human creature it is necessary for salvation to be subject to the authority of the Roman pontiff"
Do you think that Unam Sanctam does not take into account the instances when there is no Pope. There is currently no Pope. Do you think that that means that according to the Catholic Church, I am now damned?

According to some conclavists, yes. (It was a while ago that I read that, so I don't know if I could find it again or tell you which group it was; but I recall part of their rationale for electing a pope was that sede vacante meant everybody going to hell.)
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Papist on February 28, 2013, 03:36:47 PM
Do you think that Unam Sanctam does not take into account the instances when there is no Pope. There is currently no Pope. Do you think that that means that according to the Catholic Church, I am now damned?

My response was to ialmisry's response to your post where you said that unity is by faith, not to the Pope.  It is clear that the Catholic Church teachest that unity is through the Pope alone.  I guess you can say that if a Pope accepts one into communion then there is a guarantee that is a unity of faith.  But still it is through the Pope.  What if the Orthodox say today that they will accept full Communion with the Roman Catholic Church and accept all her teachings as is, but this offer expires in one week.  Do you think anyone in the Roman Catholic Church can take that offer right now?

As for whether you are saved or damned, I don't know.  It wasn't in the context of the discussion and not something I deeply thought about in that context.  I mean, you are asking a person who was Catholic for 36 years and left, if I truly believed that salvation rested on the Roman Pontiff then why did I go to the Orthodox Church?  Maybe try not dying until the next Pope is elected just to have your bases covered ;)
Well then you are simply delusional. If unity were "in the Pope alone" as you suggest, then at this moment, there would be not a single member of the Catholic Church. But as it is, there are still over a billion Catholics worldwide, in spite of the fact that there is no Pope with whom were are in communion.

Maybe there is no Roman Catholic Church.  Did you check?
Let me check..... Oh yup. We are still here.  ;D
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: choy on February 28, 2013, 03:37:12 PM
Do you think that Unam Sanctam does not take into account the instances when there is no Pope. There is currently no Pope. Do you think that that means that according to the Catholic Church, I am now damned?

My response was to ialmisry's response to your post where you said that unity is by faith, not to the Pope.  It is clear that the Catholic Church teachest that unity is through the Pope alone.  I guess you can say that if a Pope accepts one into communion then there is a guarantee that is a unity of faith.  But still it is through the Pope.  What if the Orthodox say today that they will accept full Communion with the Roman Catholic Church and accept all her teachings as is, but this offer expires in one week.  Do you think anyone in the Roman Catholic Church can take that offer right now?

As for whether you are saved or damned, I don't know.  It wasn't in the context of the discussion and not something I deeply thought about in that context.  I mean, you are asking a person who was Catholic for 36 years and left, if I truly believed that salvation rested on the Roman Pontiff then why did I go to the Orthodox Church?  Maybe try not dying until the next Pope is elected just to have your bases covered ;)
Well then you are simply delusional. If unity were "in the Pope alone" as you suggest, then at this moment, there would be not a single member of the Catholic Church. But as it is, there are still over a billion Catholics worldwide, in spite of the fact that there is no Pope with whom were are in communion.

But you didn't answer my question.  If the Orthodox say we are coming in communion today, who receives us?  Can the Carmelengo recevie us?  Can the Cardinals in council?
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: minasoliman on February 28, 2013, 03:38:06 PM
Habemus papam papas
(http://www.copticworld.org/site_media/media/resized/photo_attachments/2012/12/25/DSC_2591.JPG/600_800_0/DSC_2591.JPG)

fixed it for ya
not quite.

In Arabic, I pray for the Pope in the dual (in the same way that we say "the two Peters" for "SS. Peter and Paul" and "the two moons" for "the sun and the moon.").

Thing is though, the dual number doesn't exist in latin, so it would be the plural.

(I wouldnt put it in the plural, but that is a particular case of my not being in communion with the OO)
The dual isn't just used to indicate two.  Sometimes it is used (as I do in the case of the two Popes Theodore II) to indicate identity.ادكر يا رب الباباوين ثيودورسين

Btw, I like this photo:
(http://www.copts-united.com/English/Uploads/755/2%20(8).JPG)
The figure in the center is the Lion of St. Mark the Evangelist.  I like how the Popes sit next to each other with the empty throne, until that day (God grant it soon!) one sits in it.

+1...is there one without the Arabic and English logo?
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Papist on February 28, 2013, 03:38:33 PM
101 minutes until I become a sedevacantist.

So does that mean that already-sedevacantists become just schismatics instead of heretics as well for a bit? ;)

No, they all come into communion via the empty Chair of Peter ;)
Or maybe it means that our communion in the faith is even more fundamental than our communion with the Pope. Just saying.
not what "Pastor Aeternus" says.

Actually it is Unam Sanctam that says that:

"Now, therefore, we declare, say, determine and pronounce that for every human creature it is necessary for salvation to be subject to the authority of the Roman pontiff"
Do you think that Unam Sanctam does not take into account the instances when there is no Pope. There is currently no Pope. Do you think that that means that according to the Catholic Church, I am now damned?

According to some conclavists, yes. (It was a while ago that I read that, so I don't know if I could find it again or tell you which group it was; but I recall part of their rationale for electing a pope was that sede vacante meant everybody going to hell.)
And which ever conclavist argued that is as delusional as anyone else suggesting that the Catholic Church ceased to exist today 8:00 PM Rome time. One of the teachings of the Catholic Church is that the Church is indefectable.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Papist on February 28, 2013, 03:39:26 PM
Do you think that Unam Sanctam does not take into account the instances when there is no Pope. There is currently no Pope. Do you think that that means that according to the Catholic Church, I am now damned?

My response was to ialmisry's response to your post where you said that unity is by faith, not to the Pope.  It is clear that the Catholic Church teachest that unity is through the Pope alone.  I guess you can say that if a Pope accepts one into communion then there is a guarantee that is a unity of faith.  But still it is through the Pope.  What if the Orthodox say today that they will accept full Communion with the Roman Catholic Church and accept all her teachings as is, but this offer expires in one week.  Do you think anyone in the Roman Catholic Church can take that offer right now?

As for whether you are saved or damned, I don't know.  It wasn't in the context of the discussion and not something I deeply thought about in that context.  I mean, you are asking a person who was Catholic for 36 years and left, if I truly believed that salvation rested on the Roman Pontiff then why did I go to the Orthodox Church?  Maybe try not dying until the next Pope is elected just to have your bases covered ;)
Well then you are simply delusional. If unity were "in the Pope alone" as you suggest, then at this moment, there would be not a single member of the Catholic Church. But as it is, there are still over a billion Catholics worldwide, in spite of the fact that there is no Pope with whom were are in communion.

But you didn't answer my question.  If the Orthodox say we are coming in communion today, who receives us?  Can the Carmelengo recevie us?  Can the Cardinals in council?
I wouldn't doubt that the Bishops/cardinals could find some way to make it happen. It would be a novel situation, but that doesn't mean it couldn't be made to happen.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: choy on February 28, 2013, 03:39:29 PM
Let me check..... Oh yup. We are still here.  ;D

I don't believe you!  Not until I can put my fingers into your hands and touch your side, I will not believe.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Cyrillic on February 28, 2013, 03:39:34 PM
so what would latin be for the dual?


Papas is plural. There is no dual in Latin.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Papist on February 28, 2013, 03:40:02 PM
Let me check..... Oh yup. We are still here.  ;D

I don't believe you!  Not until I can put my fingers into your hands and touch your side, I will not believe.
We all know how Jesus answered that statement.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: choy on February 28, 2013, 03:40:49 PM
And which ever conclavist argued that is as delusional as anyone else suggesting that the Catholic Church ceased to exist today 8:00 PM Rome time. One of the teachings of the Catholic Church is that the Church is indefectable.

But isn't the Church built on Peter and his successors?  So if there is no successor, the RC Church right now is built on air.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: ialmisry on February 28, 2013, 03:41:03 PM
so what would latin be for the dual?
(i am in awe at these 2 linguists!)

i love the photo, by the way.
 :)  :)

(i can smile in the dual!)
 ;)
I'd hate to see a smile not in the dual.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: choy on February 28, 2013, 03:41:14 PM
Let me check..... Oh yup. We are still here.  ;D

I don't believe you!  Not until I can put my fingers into your hands and touch your side, I will not believe.
We all know how Jesus answered that statement.

Yes, he appeared to Thomas.  I'm waiting...  ;)
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Papist on February 28, 2013, 03:42:36 PM
Let me check..... Oh yup. We are still here.  ;D

I don't believe you!  Not until I can put my fingers into your hands and touch your side, I will not believe.
We all know how Jesus answered that statement.

Yes, he appeared to Thomas.  I'm waiting...  ;)
Well, walk to the nearest Catholic Church, and put your hand in a parishoner's side. See how that works out.  ;D
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: ialmisry on February 28, 2013, 03:44:44 PM
Let me check..... Oh yup. We are still here.  ;D

I don't believe you!  Not until I can put my fingers into your hands and touch your side, I will not believe.
We all know how Jesus answered that statement.
Yeah, "stick your finger in right here."
(http://saintlukecolumbia.org/storage/icons/Icon_Handling_Thomas.jpg?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=1304218265367)
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Peter J on February 28, 2013, 03:47:07 PM
But as it is, there are still over a billion Catholics worldwide, in spite of the fact that there is no Pope with whom were are in communion.

Maybe there are no Catholics, but a billion catechumens.  ;D
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: minasoliman on February 28, 2013, 03:54:11 PM
Never mind Isa...I found the source:

http://www.patriarchateofalexandria.com/index.php?module=news&action=details&id=889
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: ialmisry on February 28, 2013, 03:55:09 PM
And which ever conclavist argued that is as delusional as anyone else suggesting that the Catholic Church ceased to exist today 8:00 PM Rome time. One of the teachings of the Catholic Church is that the Church is indefectable.

But isn't the Church built on Peter and his successors?  So if there is no successor, the RC Church right now is built on air.
(http://i4.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article1704567.ece/ALTERNATES/s615b/A+lightning+strikes+St+Peter's+dome+at+the+Vatican+on+February+11.jpg)
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: ialmisry on February 28, 2013, 03:59:08 PM
Never mind Isa...I found the source:

http://www.patriarchateofalexandria.com/index.php?module=news&action=details&id=889
sorry, didn't see your post fast enough, and I can't get the url of the better picture (no. 2/4).
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: choy on February 28, 2013, 04:00:11 PM
Actually the same can be said of an Eastern Catholic Patriarch/Major Archbishop.  If a new one is elected, he has to send something to Rome to confirm Communion with the Pope.  So technically the Eastern Catholics of that Church are schismatics are soon as their Patriarchate/Major Archbishropic seat is vacant, and until the newly elected sui juris head sends to the Pope that, I forgot what its called.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: ialmisry on February 28, 2013, 04:01:24 PM
Do you think that Unam Sanctam does not take into account the instances when there is no Pope. There is currently no Pope. Do you think that that means that according to the Catholic Church, I am now damned?

My response was to ialmisry's response to your post where you said that unity is by faith, not to the Pope.  It is clear that the Catholic Church teachest that unity is through the Pope alone.  I guess you can say that if a Pope accepts one into communion then there is a guarantee that is a unity of faith.  But still it is through the Pope.  What if the Orthodox say today that they will accept full Communion with the Roman Catholic Church and accept all her teachings as is, but this offer expires in one week.  Do you think anyone in the Roman Catholic Church can take that offer right now?

As for whether you are saved or damned, I don't know.  It wasn't in the context of the discussion and not something I deeply thought about in that context.  I mean, you are asking a person who was Catholic for 36 years and left, if I truly believed that salvation rested on the Roman Pontiff then why did I go to the Orthodox Church?  Maybe try not dying until the next Pope is elected just to have your bases covered ;)
Well then you are simply delusional. If unity were "in the Pope alone" as you suggest, then at this moment, there would be not a single member of the Catholic Church. But as it is, there are still over a billion Catholics worldwide, in spite of the fact that there is no Pope with whom were are in communion.

But you didn't answer my question.  If the Orthodox say we are coming in communion today, who receives us?  Can the Carmelengo recevie us?  Can the Cardinals in council?
I wouldn't doubt that the Bishops/cardinals could find some way to make it happen. It would be a novel situation, but that doesn't mean it couldn't be made to happen.
after all, mere bishops, they are able to make a super bishop, without involving the sacraments of Christ's Church.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: choy on February 28, 2013, 04:01:46 PM
Well, walk to the nearest Catholic Church, and put your hand in a parishoner's side. See how that works out.  ;D

But how do I know they are not the real sedevacantists or the liberal pro-aborts?  ;D
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: minasoliman on February 28, 2013, 04:02:19 PM
(http://www.patriarchateofalexandria.com/modules/news/thumb_large.php?id=3218)


(http://www.patriarchateofalexandria.com/modules/news/thumb_large.php?id=3219)


(http://www.patriarchateofalexandria.com/modules/news/thumb_large.php?id=3220)


(http://www.patriarchateofalexandria.com/modules/news/thumb_large.php?id=3221)

Found a thread in Tasbeha.org that did it for me  ;)
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: choy on February 28, 2013, 04:02:56 PM
But as it is, there are still over a billion Catholics worldwide, in spite of the fact that there is no Pope with whom were are in communion.

Maybe there are no Catholics, but a billion catechumens.  ;D

Are you all then required to go to RCIA during the Conclave?  ;D
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: James2 on February 28, 2013, 04:09:18 PM
The RCC could create an office of coadjutor pope so there would always be an heir apparent.  They could call him the Dolphin or the Prince of Whales.  ;D
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: choy on February 28, 2013, 04:12:50 PM
Isn't that what the Carmelengo becomes during the period of sedevacante?
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: J Michael on February 28, 2013, 04:13:15 PM
And which ever conclavist argued that is as delusional as anyone else suggesting that the Catholic Church ceased to exist today 8:00 PM Rome time. One of the teachings of the Catholic Church is that the Church is indefectable.

But isn't the Church built on Peter and his successors?  So if there is no successor, the RC Church right now is built on air.

There is a successor.  He just hasn't been revealed yet.  God knows who he is, though, so don't fret, alright?  Maybe Choy is built on air  ;D.  As for the Orthodox coming into the Catholic Church, I'm sure any Catholic priest would happily accommodate y'all.  ;)
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Cyrillic on February 28, 2013, 04:14:43 PM
They could call him the Dolphin or the Prince of Whales.  ;D

France was never ruled by an aquatic animal. It was at times ruled by a dauphin though  :)

Well, it is the same word in French, though...
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: J Michael on February 28, 2013, 04:15:57 PM
Isn't that what the Carmelengo becomes during the period of sedevacante?
Quote
Until a successor Pope can be elected, the Camerlengo serves as acting head of State of the Vatican City. He is not, however, currently responsible for the government of the Catholic Church during a sede vacante. Universi Dominici Gregis placed that task in the hands of the College of Cardinals (although this power of government is extremely limited, being merely enough to allow Church institutions to continue to operate and perform some basic functions without making any definitive decisions or appointments that are normally reserved to other powers delegated by the Pope). The Camerlengo, though, does keep his office during the sede vacante, as opposed to the rest of the Roman Curia, and functions as the executive director of Vatican operations answerable to the College of Cardinals during an interregnum, primarily to carry out the College's decisions with regard to arranging the funeral of the late pope and the events leading up to the conclave. The only other person who keeps his office is the Major Penitentiary.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camerlengo_of_the_Holy_Roman_Church
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: James2 on February 28, 2013, 04:37:15 PM
They could call him the Dolphin or the Prince of Whales.  ;D

France was never ruled by an aquatic animal. It was at times ruled by a dauphin though  :)

Well, it is the same word in French, though...

I know.  I was just having some pun. :D
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Peter J on February 28, 2013, 04:38:52 PM
They could call him the Dolphin or the Prince of Whales.  ;D

Don't make me come over there!
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: James2 on February 28, 2013, 04:40:29 PM
They could call him the Dolphin or the Prince of Whales.  ;D

Don't make me come over there!

No need.  You're already there.  I, however, am here. :)
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: choy on February 28, 2013, 04:41:35 PM
Jokes aside, isn't this period of sedevacante does put into question many claims about the Papacy brought forward by the Roman Catholic Church?  Like my earlier comment about the Church being built on Peter and that Peter only has one successor, what now?  On whom is the Church built on?  And how are the Churches of the Catholic Communion in communion with one another?  How are they "in communion with Rome" if there is no Bishop of Rome?
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Monk Vasyl on February 28, 2013, 04:43:01 PM
Do you think that Unam Sanctam does not take into account the instances when there is no Pope. There is currently no Pope. Do you think that that means that according to the Catholic Church, I am now damned?

My response was to ialmisry's response to your post where you said that unity is by faith, not to the Pope.  It is clear that the Catholic Church teachest that unity is through the Pope alone.  I guess you can say that if a Pope accepts one into communion then there is a guarantee that is a unity of faith.  But still it is through the Pope.  What if the Orthodox say today that they will accept full Communion with the Roman Catholic Church and accept all her teachings as is, but this offer expires in one week.  Do you think anyone in the Roman Catholic Church can take that offer right now?

As for whether you are saved or damned, I don't know.  It wasn't in the context of the discussion and not something I deeply thought about in that context.  I mean, you are asking a person who was Catholic for 36 years and left, if I truly believed that salvation rested on the Roman Pontiff then why did I go to the Orthodox Church?  Maybe try not dying until the next Pope is elected just to have your bases covered ;)
Well then you are simply delusional. If unity were "in the Pope alone" as you suggest, then at this moment, there would be not a single member of the Catholic Church. But as it is, there are still over a billion Catholics worldwide, in spite of the fact that there is no Pope with whom were are in communion.

Maybe there is no Roman Catholic Church.  Did you check?



Yes, they're still there:

http://www.vatican.va/phome_en.htm (http://www.vatican.va/phome_en.htm)
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Peter J on February 28, 2013, 04:44:27 PM
Actually the same can be said of an Eastern Catholic Patriarch/Major Archbishop.  If a new one is elected, he has to send something to Rome to confirm Communion with the Pope.  So technically the Eastern Catholics of that Church are schismatics are soon as their Patriarchate/Major Archbishropic seat is vacant, and until the newly elected sui juris head sends to the Pope that, I forgot what its called.

Schismatics, did you say? So are saying that, when the MP and the ROCOR weren't in full communion, the ROCOR was schismatic? (Or was the MP schismatic?)  :o
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: choy on February 28, 2013, 04:46:26 PM
Actually the same can be said of an Eastern Catholic Patriarch/Major Archbishop.  If a new one is elected, he has to send something to Rome to confirm Communion with the Pope.  So technically the Eastern Catholics of that Church are schismatics are soon as their Patriarchate/Major Archbishropic seat is vacant, and until the newly elected sui juris head sends to the Pope that, I forgot what its called.

Schismatics, did you say? So are saying that, when the MP and the ROCOR weren't in full communion, the ROCOR was schismatic? (Or was the MP schismatic?)  :o

If you are not in communion, then what are you?  Is there an option B here?
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Peter J on February 28, 2013, 04:49:21 PM
Jokes aside, isn't this period of sedevacante does put into question many claims about the Papacy brought forward by the Roman Catholic Church?  Like my earlier comment about the Church being built on Peter and that Peter only has one successor, what now?  On whom is the Church built on?  And how are the Churches of the Catholic Communion in communion with one another?  How are they "in communion with Rome" if there is no Bishop of Rome?

Good question.

One theory I've considered (I forget when, perhaps around the time JPII died) is that when the pope, i.e. the first-ranking bishop, dies, the second ranking bishop (traditionally the EP, back when he was Catholic) automatically becomes the (interim) first-ranking bishop.

But that opens up another can of worms: could he, during that time, order the new election to be cancelled, making himself the (non-interim) pope?
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Monk Vasyl on February 28, 2013, 05:12:21 PM
Jokes aside, isn't this period of sedevacante does put into question many claims about the Papacy brought forward by the Roman Catholic Church?  Like my earlier comment about the Church being built on Peter and that Peter only has one successor, what now?  On whom is the Church built on?  And how are the Churches of the Catholic Communion in communion with one another?  How are they "in communion with Rome" if there is no Bishop of Rome?

Good question.

One theory I've considered (I forget when, perhaps around the time JPII died) is that when the pope, i.e. the first-ranking bishop, dies, the second ranking bishop (traditionally the EP, back when he was Catholic) automatically becomes the (interim) first-ranking bishop.

But that opens up another can of worms: could he, during that time, order the new election to be cancelled, making himself the (non-interim) pope?

Basically everything comes to a stop.  


http://community.catholic.org/pope/new_pope.php (http://community.catholic.org/pope/new_pope.php)
The Vacancy of the Holy See (Papal Interregnum)
 
The period between the death or resignation of a Pope and the election of his successor, when the See of Peter is vacant, is called the Interregnum. This Latin term means between the reign (of one Pope and another). It is a period governed by papal law, which admits of no changes to Church governance, or to the spiritual or material patrimony of St. Peter, save the election of his successor.

Here is more information, I found:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_pope (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_pope)
(scroll down to "Death")

The current regulations regarding a papal interregnum—that is, a sede vacante ("vacant seat")—were promulgated by John Paul II in his 1996 document Universi Dominici Gregis. During the "sede vacante" period, the College of Cardinals is collectively responsible for the government of the Church and of the Vatican itself, under the direction of the Camerlengo of the Holy Roman Church; however, canon law specifically forbids the cardinals from introducing any innovation in the government of the Church during the vacancy of the Holy See. Any decision that requires the assent of the pope has to wait until the new pope has been elected and accepts office.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: J Michael on February 28, 2013, 05:16:22 PM
Jokes aside, isn't this period of sedevacante does put into question many claims about the Papacy brought forward by the Roman Catholic Church?  Like my earlier comment about the Church being built on Peter and that Peter only has one successor, what now?  On whom is the Church built on?  And how are the Churches of the Catholic Communion in communion with one another?  How are they "in communion with Rome" if there is no Bishop of Rome?

Good question.

One theory I've considered (I forget when, perhaps around the time JPII died) is that when the pope, i.e. the first-ranking bishop, dies, the second ranking bishop (traditionally the EP, back when he was Catholic) automatically becomes the (interim) first-ranking bishop.

But that opens up another can of worms: could he, during that time, order the new election to be cancelled, making himself the (non-interim) pope?

Basically everything comes to a stop. 


http://community.catholic.org/pope/new_pope.php (http://community.catholic.org/pope/new_pope.php)
The Vacancy of the Holy See (Papal Interregnum)
 
The period between the death or resignation of a Pope and the election of his successor, when the See of Peter is vacant, is called the Interregnum. This Latin term means between the reign (of one Pope and another). It is a period governed by papal law, which admits of no changes to Church governance, or to the spiritual or material patrimony of St. Peter, save the election of his successor.

Thanks for that!  Perhaps it goes some way to explaining why I feel totally untroubled and unconcerned by Choy's concerns and by the whole process unfolding before us.  The word "trust" comes to mind.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Monk Vasyl on February 28, 2013, 05:26:08 PM
Jokes aside, isn't this period of sedevacante does put into question many claims about the Papacy brought forward by the Roman Catholic Church?  Like my earlier comment about the Church being built on Peter and that Peter only has one successor, what now?  On whom is the Church built on?  And how are the Churches of the Catholic Communion in communion with one another?  How are they "in communion with Rome" if there is no Bishop of Rome?

Good question.

One theory I've considered (I forget when, perhaps around the time JPII died) is that when the pope, i.e. the first-ranking bishop, dies, the second ranking bishop (traditionally the EP, back when he was Catholic) automatically becomes the (interim) first-ranking bishop.

But that opens up another can of worms: could he, during that time, order the new election to be cancelled, making himself the (non-interim) pope?

Basically everything comes to a stop. 


http://community.catholic.org/pope/new_pope.php (http://community.catholic.org/pope/new_pope.php)
The Vacancy of the Holy See (Papal Interregnum)
 
The period between the death or resignation of a Pope and the election of his successor, when the See of Peter is vacant, is called the Interregnum. This Latin term means between the reign (of one Pope and another). It is a period governed by papal law, which admits of no changes to Church governance, or to the spiritual or material patrimony of St. Peter, save the election of his successor.

Thanks for that!  Perhaps it goes some way to explaining why I feel totally untroubled and unconcerned by Choy's concerns and by the whole process unfolding before us.  The word "trust" comes to mind.

It sort of brings to mind that the pope is the temporal head of the Church.  Christ is really the only head of the Church.  During its history, there were times when the Church was without a pope for quite a few years, and look its still here.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Monk Vasyl on February 28, 2013, 05:30:40 PM
Interestingly enought, this shows up online:

Without a pope, who's running the Catholic Church?

With Benedict XVI's abdication taking effect Thursday, the Roman Catholic Church has no pope until the conclave of cardinals settles on a new one. Like many other procedures of the church, the rules for running the institution during this period are ancient and little-known. Here are answers to questions you might have about exactly what happens when the papacy changes hands:

http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/02/28/17134063-without-a-pope-whos-running-the-catholic-church?lite&ocid=msnhp&pos=1
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: J Michael on February 28, 2013, 05:31:36 PM
Jokes aside, isn't this period of sedevacante does put into question many claims about the Papacy brought forward by the Roman Catholic Church?  Like my earlier comment about the Church being built on Peter and that Peter only has one successor, what now?  On whom is the Church built on?  And how are the Churches of the Catholic Communion in communion with one another?  How are they "in communion with Rome" if there is no Bishop of Rome?

Good question.

One theory I've considered (I forget when, perhaps around the time JPII died) is that when the pope, i.e. the first-ranking bishop, dies, the second ranking bishop (traditionally the EP, back when he was Catholic) automatically becomes the (interim) first-ranking bishop.

But that opens up another can of worms: could he, during that time, order the new election to be cancelled, making himself the (non-interim) pope?

Basically everything comes to a stop. 


http://community.catholic.org/pope/new_pope.php (http://community.catholic.org/pope/new_pope.php)
The Vacancy of the Holy See (Papal Interregnum)
 
The period between the death or resignation of a Pope and the election of his successor, when the See of Peter is vacant, is called the Interregnum. This Latin term means between the reign (of one Pope and another). It is a period governed by papal law, which admits of no changes to Church governance, or to the spiritual or material patrimony of St. Peter, save the election of his successor.

Thanks for that!  Perhaps it goes some way to explaining why I feel totally untroubled and unconcerned by Choy's concerns and by the whole process unfolding before us.  The word "trust" comes to mind.

It sort of brings to mind that the pope is the temporal head of the Church.  Christ is really the only head of the Church.  During its history, there were times when the Church was without a pope for quite a few years, and look its still here.

Indeed.  As in so many other instances, we tend to forget that Christ IS the only head of the Church, and always has been, simply because we do not see or hear Him "in the flesh" as it were.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: podkarpatska on February 28, 2013, 05:36:32 PM
And which ever conclavist argued that is as delusional as anyone else suggesting that the Catholic Church ceased to exist today 8:00 PM Rome time. One of the teachings of the Catholic Church is that the Church is indefectable.

But isn't the Church built on Peter and his successors?  So if there is no successor, the RC Church right now is built on air.
(http://i4.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article1704567.ece/ALTERNATES/s615b/A+lightning+strikes+St+Peter's+dome+at+the+Vatican+on+February+11.jpg)


The way this thread has gone today, St Peter's isn't the only place that needs a good lightning rod.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: JamesRottnek on February 28, 2013, 05:38:43 PM
I'm not Catholic and I'm not planning to become one but in a way I will miss him too. I hope his not going to disappear into the dungeons of Vatican. Has he ever written any kind of biography? I'd love to read one if there is.

The succeeding pope will be the third pope that I see in my lifetime. Man, I feel old now.

You shouldn't.  The average Pope lasts 7.2 years, which means that by 21.6 years, the average person has seen three Popes in office.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: J Michael on February 28, 2013, 05:40:38 PM
I'm not Catholic and I'm not planning to become one but in a way I will miss him too. I hope his not going to disappear into the dungeons of Vatican. Has he ever written any kind of biography? I'd love to read one if there is.

The succeeding pope will be the third pope that I see in my lifetime. Man, I feel old now.

You shouldn't.  The average Pope lasts 7.2 years, which means that by 21.6 years, the average person has seen three Popes in office.

Who *is* this "average person", anyway, and what makes him "average"?
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: choy on February 28, 2013, 05:42:11 PM
Jokes aside, isn't this period of sedevacante does put into question many claims about the Papacy brought forward by the Roman Catholic Church?  Like my earlier comment about the Church being built on Peter and that Peter only has one successor, what now?  On whom is the Church built on?  And how are the Churches of the Catholic Communion in communion with one another?  How are they "in communion with Rome" if there is no Bishop of Rome?

Good question.

One theory I've considered (I forget when, perhaps around the time JPII died) is that when the pope, i.e. the first-ranking bishop, dies, the second ranking bishop (traditionally the EP, back when he was Catholic) automatically becomes the (interim) first-ranking bishop.

But that opens up another can of worms: could he, during that time, order the new election to be cancelled, making himself the (non-interim) pope?

Well, it would depend how your statement would be interpreted.  Obviously the Orthodox do not see the EP as anything as a Lt. Pope.  Even if he were to assume an interim "first among equals" role, its not the same as the Western view of the Papacy.

Thing isn, isn't everyone in communion with the Pope in the Catholic ecclesiology?  As opposed to each other?
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: choy on February 28, 2013, 05:43:02 PM
I'm not Catholic and I'm not planning to become one but in a way I will miss him too. I hope his not going to disappear into the dungeons of Vatican. Has he ever written any kind of biography? I'd love to read one if there is.

The succeeding pope will be the third pope that I see in my lifetime. Man, I feel old now.

You shouldn't.  The average Pope lasts 7.2 years, which means that by 21.6 years, the average person has seen three Popes in office.

Who *is* this "average person", anyway, and what makes him "average"?

If he is in the 50th percentile according to statisticians  ;D
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: J Michael on February 28, 2013, 05:47:53 PM
Jokes aside, isn't this period of sedevacante does put into question many claims about the Papacy brought forward by the Roman Catholic Church?  Like my earlier comment about the Church being built on Peter and that Peter only has one successor, what now?  On whom is the Church built on?  And how are the Churches of the Catholic Communion in communion with one another?  How are they "in communion with Rome" if there is no Bishop of Rome?

Good question.

One theory I've considered (I forget when, perhaps around the time JPII died) is that when the pope, i.e. the first-ranking bishop, dies, the second ranking bishop (traditionally the EP, back when he was Catholic) automatically becomes the (interim) first-ranking bishop.

But that opens up another can of worms: could he, during that time, order the new election to be cancelled, making himself the (non-interim) pope?

Well, it would depend how your statement would be interpreted.  Obviously the Orthodox do not see the EP as anything as a Lt. Pope.  Even if he were to assume an interim "first among equals" role, its not the same as the Western view of the Papacy.

Thing isn, isn't everyone in communion with the Pope in the Catholic ecclesiology?  As opposed to each other?

I think you may need to be inspected for lice. ;D  You're more of a nit-picker than even I am! ;D ;D
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Peter J on February 28, 2013, 05:54:17 PM
Jokes aside, isn't this period of sedevacante does put into question many claims about the Papacy brought forward by the Roman Catholic Church?  Like my earlier comment about the Church being built on Peter and that Peter only has one successor, what now?  On whom is the Church built on?  And how are the Churches of the Catholic Communion in communion with one another?  How are they "in communion with Rome" if there is no Bishop of Rome?

Good question.

One theory I've considered (I forget when, perhaps around the time JPII died) is that when the pope, i.e. the first-ranking bishop, dies, the second ranking bishop (traditionally the EP, back when he was Catholic) automatically becomes the (interim) first-ranking bishop.

But that opens up another can of worms: could he, during that time, order the new election to be cancelled, making himself the (non-interim) pope?

Well, it would depend how your statement would be interpreted.  Obviously the Orthodox do not see the EP as anything as a Lt. Pope.  Even if he were to assume an interim "first among equals" role, its not the same as the Western view of the Papacy.

I think you missed the qualifiers in that remark: I didn't say "(i.e. the EP)" but rather "(traditionally the EP, back when he was Catholic)" (emphasis added).
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Peter J on February 28, 2013, 05:55:05 PM
Jokes aside, isn't this period of sedevacante does put into question many claims about the Papacy brought forward by the Roman Catholic Church?  Like my earlier comment about the Church being built on Peter and that Peter only has one successor, what now?  On whom is the Church built on?  And how are the Churches of the Catholic Communion in communion with one another?  How are they "in communion with Rome" if there is no Bishop of Rome?

This actually supports something I have long believed. The Catholic Church (or, to put it in neutral terminology, the Roman Communion) isn't just a shorthand for "all the people who are in full communion with the pope". It a communion -- one member of which is the pope (well, most of the time :)).
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: choy on February 28, 2013, 06:05:11 PM
Jokes aside, isn't this period of sedevacante does put into question many claims about the Papacy brought forward by the Roman Catholic Church?  Like my earlier comment about the Church being built on Peter and that Peter only has one successor, what now?  On whom is the Church built on?  And how are the Churches of the Catholic Communion in communion with one another?  How are they "in communion with Rome" if there is no Bishop of Rome?

This actually supports something I have long believed. The Catholic Church (or, to put it in neutral terminology, the Roman Communion) isn't just a shorthand for "all the people who are in full communion with the pope". It a communion -- one member of which is the pope (well, most of the time :)).

But the Pope can exclude anyone from this communion but he cannot be excluded by anyone from this communion.  No one can excommunicate the Pope, at least not since Vatican I (it's been longer than that but Vatican I made that pretty clear).
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: ialmisry on February 28, 2013, 06:21:02 PM
I'm not Catholic and I'm not planning to become one but in a way I will miss him too. I hope his not going to disappear into the dungeons of Vatican. Has he ever written any kind of biography? I'd love to read one if there is.

The succeeding pope will be the third pope that I see in my lifetime. Man, I feel old now.

You shouldn't.  The average Pope lasts 7.2 years, which means that by 21.6 years, the average person has seen three Popes in office.
Yeah. I mean, I've seen two more, but that is only because I was around when Pope Paul died, and then lived through the month papacy of Pope John Paul I.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: choy on February 28, 2013, 07:57:57 PM
I'm not Catholic and I'm not planning to become one but in a way I will miss him too. I hope his not going to disappear into the dungeons of Vatican. Has he ever written any kind of biography? I'd love to read one if there is.

The succeeding pope will be the third pope that I see in my lifetime. Man, I feel old now.

You shouldn't.  The average Pope lasts 7.2 years, which means that by 21.6 years, the average person has seen three Popes in office.
Yeah. I mean, I've seen two more, but that is only because I was around when Pope Paul died, and then lived through the month papacy of Pope John Paul I.

Technically I was too, come to think of it.  Though I was mostly a toddler then and never really knew any Pope before Pope John Paul II.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: ialmisry on February 28, 2013, 07:58:17 PM
(http://www.patriarchateofalexandria.com/modules/news/thumb_large.php?id=3218)
Btw, I think this is St. Nicholas Cathedral in Cairo, just across from al-Azhar
(http://www.stnicholascenter.org/media/gazetteer/africa/egypt/cairo.jpg)
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Papist on February 28, 2013, 09:09:03 PM
Jokes aside, isn't this period of sedevacante does put into question many claims about the Papacy brought forward by the Roman Catholic Church?  Like my earlier comment about the Church being built on Peter and that Peter only has one successor, what now?  On whom is the Church built on?  And how are the Churches of the Catholic Communion in communion with one another?  How are they "in communion with Rome" if there is no Bishop of Rome?
1. Peter was the rock and he always will be
2. We are in communion with one another. The times in which there is no Pope are a clear indication that our communion is more fundamentally founded in our common faith in Christ. When there is a Pope, we must be in communion, but this necessity is less fundamental than our communion in the faith.  
You may not like that answer because it does not fit your "disaffected Catholic" narrative, but such is life. No one, not even the authors of Pastor Aeternus thought that the Church suddenly ceases to exist when there is no Pope.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: minasoliman on February 28, 2013, 09:10:24 PM
(http://www.patriarchateofalexandria.com/modules/news/thumb_large.php?id=3218)
Btw, I think this is St. Nicholas Cathedral in Cairo, just across from al-Azhar
(http://www.stnicholascenter.org/media/gazetteer/africa/egypt/cairo.jpg)

The article does say it's in the "Patriarchal office in Cairo".

By the way...I just found out, I am the son of the Pope's cousin's cousin's cousin (my father)!!!  No joke...lol!
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: ialmisry on February 28, 2013, 09:27:37 PM
Jokes aside, isn't this period of sedevacante does put into question many claims about the Papacy brought forward by the Roman Catholic Church?  Like my earlier comment about the Church being built on Peter and that Peter only has one successor, what now?  On whom is the Church built on?  And how are the Churches of the Catholic Communion in communion with one another?  How are they "in communion with Rome" if there is no Bishop of Rome?
1. Peter was the rock and he always will be
ِChrist is the Rock of Ages, and He always will be.
2. We are in communion with one another. The times in which there is no Pope are a clear indication that our communion is more fundamentally founded in our common faith in Christ. When there is a Pope, we must be in communion, but this necessity is less fundamental than our communion in the faith.
 
It just indicates that your doctrine is confused and contradictory.  Somewhere here I've posted about how Cajetan went on how the Church cannot exist without the supreme pontiff.
You may not like that answer because it does not fit your "disaffected Catholic" narrative, but such is life. No one, not even the authors of Pastor Aeternus thought that the Church suddenly ceases to exist when there is no Pope.
They didn't seem to think a lot of things out.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Papist on February 28, 2013, 09:34:20 PM
Jokes aside, isn't this period of sedevacante does put into question many claims about the Papacy brought forward by the Roman Catholic Church?  Like my earlier comment about the Church being built on Peter and that Peter only has one successor, what now?  On whom is the Church built on?  And how are the Churches of the Catholic Communion in communion with one another?  How are they "in communion with Rome" if there is no Bishop of Rome?
1. Peter was the rock and he always will be
ِChrist is the Rock of Ages, and He always will be.
2. We are in communion with one another. The times in which there is no Pope are a clear indication that our communion is more fundamentally founded in our common faith in Christ. When there is a Pope, we must be in communion, but this necessity is less fundamental than our communion in the faith.

It just indicates that your doctrine is confused and contradictory.  Somewhere here I've posted about how Cajetan went on how the Church cannot exist without the supreme pontiff.
You may not like that answer because it does not fit your "disaffected Catholic" narrative, but such is life. No one, not even the authors of Pastor Aeternus thought that the Church suddenly ceases to exist when there is no Pope.
They didn't seem to think a lot of things out.
::) goodness, the eye roll was so strong, they almost got stuck. Obviously when Pastor Aeternus was written, the authors were well aware of the fact that the church still continues to exist, even in the absence of a Pope. I'm still here, and so are quite a few Catholics I know. Anyway, I'm going to let you and choy, and whoever else wants to join your little circle,  go on and keep enjoying yourselves. But it's a fruitless activity.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: choy on February 28, 2013, 09:55:29 PM
Jokes aside, isn't this period of sedevacante does put into question many claims about the Papacy brought forward by the Roman Catholic Church?  Like my earlier comment about the Church being built on Peter and that Peter only has one successor, what now?  On whom is the Church built on?  And how are the Churches of the Catholic Communion in communion with one another?  How are they "in communion with Rome" if there is no Bishop of Rome?
1. Peter was the rock and he always will be
2. We are in communion with one another. The times in which there is no Pope are a clear indication that our communion is more fundamentally founded in our common faith in Christ. When there is a Pope, we must be in communion, but this necessity is less fundamental than our communion in the faith.  
You may not like that answer because it does not fit your "disaffected Catholic" narrative, but such is life. No one, not even the authors of Pastor Aeternus thought that the Church suddenly ceases to exist when there is no Pope.

But as pointed out earlier, isn't it a clear indication that the Papacy is indeed unnecessary?
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: ialmisry on February 28, 2013, 09:59:58 PM
Jokes aside, isn't this period of sedevacante does put into question many claims about the Papacy brought forward by the Roman Catholic Church?  Like my earlier comment about the Church being built on Peter and that Peter only has one successor, what now?  On whom is the Church built on?  And how are the Churches of the Catholic Communion in communion with one another?  How are they "in communion with Rome" if there is no Bishop of Rome?
1. Peter was the rock and he always will be
2. We are in communion with one another. The times in which there is no Pope are a clear indication that our communion is more fundamentally founded in our common faith in Christ. When there is a Pope, we must be in communion, but this necessity is less fundamental than our communion in the faith.  
You may not like that answer because it does not fit your "disaffected Catholic" narrative, but such is life. No one, not even the authors of Pastor Aeternus thought that the Church suddenly ceases to exist when there is no Pope.

But as pointed out earlier, isn't it a clear indication that the Papacy is indeed unnecessary?
Cajetan tried to claim otherwise:

Today, Orthodox Christians still believe that all bishops are sacramentally equal

I don't know what you mean by "sacramentally" equal...

But the Catholic Church, the Church of my baptism, teaches that each bishop participates in the magisterial charge and the petrine charge equally, and that each bishop and his See are the fullness of the Body of Christ.

The Catholic Church teaches that, but the Vatican who baptized you does not:
I can across something else of interest to the issue of the "manus" on supreme pontiff: Cajetan's Authority of Pope and Council Compared.
Quote
If someone insists that, when the apostolic see is vacant, the universal Church still exists, even without the pope as its head, the answer is that the universal Church exists only imperfectly, in such a way that this imperfection is a condition diminishing "the universal Church," just as a beheaded body diminishes an intact body.  The universal [body], after all, includes within itself all its office-holding members, the chief of whom is the head. Accordingly, the Church at such a time is headless and without its supreme part and power. Whoever denies this falls into the error of John Hus, denying the necessity of a head of the Church, which was condemned by Saint Thomas and by Martin V with the Council of Constance." And if someone took the view that the universal Church in this sense [without its head] has power immediately from Christ and is represented by the universal council, he would err intolerably, as is obvious from the texts cited and as will become more apparent further on.

Concerning the second comparison at the other extreme, between the pope set on one side and the whole Church, that is, even including the pope, on the other, it is said that the pope with the rest of the Church does not have greater power of spiritual jurisdiction than he has by himself, because his power
contains in itself the powers of all the rest, as their universal cause
There is no power of jurisdiction in the Church which is not in the pope, as is inductively obvious.

Even the power to elect the pope is in the pope's power. This is obvious both from the case of Peter, who chose his successor, as John III says in c. Si Petrus [C. 8 q. 1 c. 1], and from the fact that the pope ordains the exercise of the power to elect, determining when and how an election should be held, and, what is more important, determining the location of that power, when he established that election belongs to at least two thirds of the cardinals. This is proved from c. Si papa [D. 40 c. 6], where it is said that the whole body of the faithful recognizes that its salvation depends most, after the Lord, on the pope's good condition. Pope Leo says in c. Ita Dominus [D. 19 c. 7], "The Lord wished the sacrament of this gift to belong to the office of all the apostles, so that He placed [it] principally in most blessed Peter, chief of all the apostles, that from him, as from a head, He might pour out His gifts, as it were, upon the whole body."  It is absolutely obvious in that passage that all the rest of the Church's body is allocated power by the pope as if by a head.
http://books.google.com/books?id=mC-I3inCYOIC&pg=PA23&dq=%22If+someone+insists+that,+when+the+apostolic+see+is+vacant,+the+universal+Church%22&hl=en#v=onepage&q=%22If%20someone%20insists%20that%2C%20when%20the%20apostolic%20see%20is%20vacant%2C%20the%20universal%20Church%22&f=false

Oh dear, it seems that not even a Council has the power to make a bishop into a supreme pontiff, a real problem for Petrine succession.

Cajetan speaks truly.  This is what I I know was taught in the 1950s and 1960s.

If Mary denies it, either she is younger than we think, or her forgettery is working well, or she has suppressed it.   But she is certainly NOT presenting (above) what was taught by the "Church of her baptism."

Cajetan was little more than a canon lawyer and active participant at Trent.  I suppose that gives his words the weight of infallibility if you agree with him...however he does not singly speak for the Church and the Church has "corrected" him in other things as well as this.

Don't you know Church history, Father?

M.
On that last question:
Cajetan was little more than a canon lawyer and active participant at Trent.
 
He died died 9 August, 1534. Trent didn't start until December 13, 1545.  His active participation must have been interesting: did he debate via Ouija board?

I suppose that gives his words the weight of infallibility if you agree with him...however he does not singly speak for the Church and the Church has "corrected" him in other things as well as this.
Oh?
Quote
Cajetan rendered important service to the Holy See by appearing before the Pseudo[sic]-Council of Pisa (1511), where he denounced the disobedience of the participating cardinals and bishops and overwhelmed them with his arguments. This was the occasion of his defence of the power and monarchical supremacy of the pope. It is chiefly to his endeavors that is ascribed the failure of this schismatical movement, abetted by Louis XII of France. He was one of the first to counsel Pope Julius II to convoke a real [sic] ecumenical council, i.e. the Fifth Lateran.....It was the common opinion of his contemporaries that had he lived, he would have succeeded Clement VII on the papal throne....In theology Cajetan is justly ranked as one of the foremost defenders and exponents of the Thomistic school. His commentaries on the "Summa Theologica", the first in that extensive field, begun in 1507 and finished in 1522, are his greatest work and were speedily recognized as a classic in Scholastic literature. The work is primarily a defence of St. Thomas against the attacks of Scotus. In the third part it reviews the aberrations of the Reformers, especially Luther. The important relation between Cajetan and the Angelic Doctor was emphasized by Leo XIII, when by his Pontifical Letters of 15 October, 1879, he ordered the former's commentaries and those of Ferrariensis to be incorporated with the text of the "Summa" in the official Leonine edition of the complete works of St. Thomas,....It has been significantly said of Cajetan that his positive teaching was regarded as a guide for others and his silence as an implicit censure. His rectitude, candour, and moderation were praised even by his enemies. Always obedient, and submitting his works to ecclesiastical authority, he presented a striking contrast to the leaders of heresy and revolt, whom he strove to save from their folly. To Clement VII he was the "lamp of the Church", and everywhere in his career, as the theological light of Italy, he was heard with respect and pleasure by cardinals, universities, the clergy, nobility, and people.

Nihil Obstat. November 1, 1908. Remy Lafort, S.T.D., Censor. Imprimatur. +John Cardinal Farley, Archbishop of New York.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03145c.htm

Don't you know Church history, Father?
It seems Father does.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: ialmisry on February 28, 2013, 10:23:32 PM
Jokes aside, isn't this period of sedevacante does put into question many claims about the Papacy brought forward by the Roman Catholic Church?  Like my earlier comment about the Church being built on Peter and that Peter only has one successor, what now?  On whom is the Church built on?  And how are the Churches of the Catholic Communion in communion with one another?  How are they "in communion with Rome" if there is no Bishop of Rome?
1. Peter was the rock and he always will be
ِChrist is the Rock of Ages, and He always will be.
2. We are in communion with one another. The times in which there is no Pope are a clear indication that our communion is more fundamentally founded in our common faith in Christ. When there is a Pope, we must be in communion, but this necessity is less fundamental than our communion in the faith.

It just indicates that your doctrine is confused and contradictory.  Somewhere here I've posted about how Cajetan went on how the Church cannot exist without the supreme pontiff.
You may not like that answer because it does not fit your "disaffected Catholic" narrative, but such is life. No one, not even the authors of Pastor Aeternus thought that the Church suddenly ceases to exist when there is no Pope.
They didn't seem to think a lot of things out.
::) goodness, the eye roll was so strong, they almost got stuck. Obviously when Pastor Aeternus was written, the authors were well aware of the fact that the church still continues to exist, even in the absence of a Pope. I'm still here, and so are quite a few Catholics I know. Anyway, I'm going to let you and choy, and whoever else wants to join your little circle,  go on and keep enjoying yourselves. But it's a fruitless activity.
Well tell your "doctor" Cajetan to heal himself.

Btw, Cajetan is quite wrong: the canons forbid a bishop from appointing his successor, and they make no exception for the bishop of Rome.  In fact, when the archbishop of Rome tried it, the Roman clergy forced him to rescind his nomination.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Peter J on February 28, 2013, 11:10:55 PM
Jokes aside, isn't this period of sedevacante does put into question many claims about the Papacy brought forward by the Roman Catholic Church?  Like my earlier comment about the Church being built on Peter and that Peter only has one successor, what now?  On whom is the Church built on?  And how are the Churches of the Catholic Communion in communion with one another?  How are they "in communion with Rome" if there is no Bishop of Rome?
1. Peter was the rock and he always will be
2. We are in communion with one another. The times in which there is no Pope are a clear indication that our communion is more fundamentally founded in our common faith in Christ. When there is a Pope, we must be in communion, but this necessity is less fundamental than our communion in the faith.  
You may not like that answer because it does not fit your "disaffected Catholic" narrative, but such is life. No one, not even the authors of Pastor Aeternus thought that the Church suddenly ceases to exist when there is no Pope.

But as pointed out earlier, isn't it a clear indication that the Papacy is indeed unnecessary?

Again we see the legalism of the Orthodox: we're without something for a couple weeks, so that's means it must be unnecessary.

;)
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: minasoliman on February 28, 2013, 11:12:37 PM
As Pope Tawadros' cousin's cousin's cousin's son...I demand this side discussion on the theology of the Roman Papacy be held elsewhere!
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: ialmisry on February 28, 2013, 11:27:56 PM
As Pope Tawadros' cousin's cousin's cousin's son...I demand this side discussion on the theology of the Roman Papacy be held elsewhere!
no nepotism allowed.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: podkarpatska on February 28, 2013, 11:30:31 PM
Jokes aside, isn't this period of sedevacante does put into question many claims about the Papacy brought forward by the Roman Catholic Church?  Like my earlier comment about the Church being built on Peter and that Peter only has one successor, what now?  On whom is the Church built on?  And how are the Churches of the Catholic Communion in communion with one another?  How are they "in communion with Rome" if there is no Bishop of Rome?
1. Peter was the rock and he always will be
2. We are in communion with one another. The times in which there is no Pope are a clear indication that our communion is more fundamentally founded in our common faith in Christ. When there is a Pope, we must be in communion, but this necessity is less fundamental than our communion in the faith.  
You may not like that answer because it does not fit your "disaffected Catholic" narrative, but such is life. No one, not even the authors of Pastor Aeternus thought that the Church suddenly ceases to exist when there is no Pope.

But as pointed out earlier, isn't it a clear indication that the Papacy is indeed unnecessary?

Again we see the legalism of the Orthodox: we're without something for a couple weeks, so that's means it must be unnecessary.

;)

No. The point was,for lack of a loftier term, rather silly. Having had no Bishop for nearly two years our diocese can attest that while we were able to administer things without a Bishop certainly did not mean we could go on without one. I understand that the theology of the Papacy is distinct from that of a "mere" Bishop, but stripped of all excess, in the final analysis the Pope is but a Bishop.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Shlomlokh on February 28, 2013, 11:32:07 PM
(http://www.patriarchateofalexandria.com/modules/news/thumb_large.php?id=3218)
Btw, I think this is St. Nicholas Cathedral in Cairo, just across from al-Azhar
(http://www.stnicholascenter.org/media/gazetteer/africa/egypt/cairo.jpg)

The article does say it's in the "Patriarchal office in Cairo".

By the way...I just found out, I am the son of the Pope's cousin's cousin's cousin (my father)!!!  No joke...lol!
As they kids say, "That's pretty dope!"

In Christ,
Andrew
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: biro on February 28, 2013, 11:37:32 PM
Jokes aside, isn't this period of sedevacante does put into question many claims about the Papacy brought forward by the Roman Catholic Church?  Like my earlier comment about the Church being built on Peter and that Peter only has one successor, what now?  On whom is the Church built on?  And how are the Churches of the Catholic Communion in communion with one another?  How are they "in communion with Rome" if there is no Bishop of Rome?
1. Peter was the rock and he always will be
2. We are in communion with one another. The times in which there is no Pope are a clear indication that our communion is more fundamentally founded in our common faith in Christ. When there is a Pope, we must be in communion, but this necessity is less fundamental than our communion in the faith.  
You may not like that answer because it does not fit your "disaffected Catholic" narrative, but such is life. No one, not even the authors of Pastor Aeternus thought that the Church suddenly ceases to exist when there is no Pope.

But as pointed out earlier, isn't it a clear indication that the Papacy is indeed unnecessary?

No.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: ialmisry on February 28, 2013, 11:42:23 PM
Jokes aside, isn't this period of sedevacante does put into question many claims about the Papacy brought forward by the Roman Catholic Church?  Like my earlier comment about the Church being built on Peter and that Peter only has one successor, what now?  On whom is the Church built on?  And how are the Churches of the Catholic Communion in communion with one another?  How are they "in communion with Rome" if there is no Bishop of Rome?
1. Peter was the rock and he always will be
2. We are in communion with one another. The times in which there is no Pope are a clear indication that our communion is more fundamentally founded in our common faith in Christ. When there is a Pope, we must be in communion, but this necessity is less fundamental than our communion in the faith.  
You may not like that answer because it does not fit your "disaffected Catholic" narrative, but such is life. No one, not even the authors of Pastor Aeternus thought that the Church suddenly ceases to exist when there is no Pope.

But as pointed out earlier, isn't it a clear indication that the Papacy is indeed unnecessary?

Again we see the legalism of the Orthodox: we're without something for a couple weeks, so that's means it must be unnecessary.

;)
That's only because you insist that, allegedly by necessity, there must always be a supreme pontiff.

We've done fine without one for nearly two thousand years.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Peter J on February 28, 2013, 11:51:09 PM
Jokes aside, isn't this period of sedevacante does put into question many claims about the Papacy brought forward by the Roman Catholic Church?  Like my earlier comment about the Church being built on Peter and that Peter only has one successor, what now?  On whom is the Church built on?  And how are the Churches of the Catholic Communion in communion with one another?  How are they "in communion with Rome" if there is no Bishop of Rome?
1. Peter was the rock and he always will be
2. We are in communion with one another. The times in which there is no Pope are a clear indication that our communion is more fundamentally founded in our common faith in Christ. When there is a Pope, we must be in communion, but this necessity is less fundamental than our communion in the faith. 
You may not like that answer because it does not fit your "disaffected Catholic" narrative, but such is life. No one, not even the authors of Pastor Aeternus thought that the Church suddenly ceases to exist when there is no Pope.

But as pointed out earlier, isn't it a clear indication that the Papacy is indeed unnecessary?

Again we see the legalism of the Orthodox: we're without something for a couple weeks, so that's means it must be unnecessary.

;)
That's only because you insist that, allegedly by necessity, there must always be a supreme pontiff.

That's part of the reason for the ;).
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: minasoliman on March 01, 2013, 12:09:04 AM
As Pope Tawadros' cousin's cousin's cousin's son...I demand this side discussion on the theology of the Roman Papacy be held elsewhere!
no nepotism allowed.

meh...I tried... :P
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Fr.Aidan on March 01, 2013, 01:50:30 AM
The Pope of Rome, to us, does not carry a signification of enchantment, wonder, and filial delight like he carries for Roman Catholics. He's not usually something of great interest to us.

That said, there is something foreboding and creepy about this resignation. It doesn't sit well with me.

A few loose and cryptic thoughts. Cheers.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Alpo on March 01, 2013, 02:57:35 AM
The Pope of Rome, to us, does not carry a signification of enchantment, wonder, and filial delight like he carries for Roman Catholics. He's not usually something of great interest to us.

Have you ever read any of Pope Benedict´s books?
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: choy on March 01, 2013, 03:37:26 AM
Again we see the legalism of the Orthodox: we're without something for a couple weeks, so that's means it must be unnecessary.

;)

So why all the fanfare about the conclave and the next Pope?  If its unnecessary, then just have someone appoint a diocesan Bishop of Rome ;)
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: choy on March 01, 2013, 03:38:14 AM
The Pope of Rome, to us, does not carry a signification of enchantment, wonder, and filial delight like he carries for Roman Catholics. He's not usually something of great interest to us.

Have you ever read any of Ratzinger´s books?

What significance does it have to what has been taught about the Papacy over the last Millennium?
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Alpo on March 01, 2013, 03:49:47 AM
The Pope of Rome, to us, does not carry a signification of enchantment, wonder, and filial delight like he carries for Roman Catholics. He's not usually something of great interest to us.

Have you ever read any of Ratzinger´s books?

What significance does it have to what has been taught about the Papacy over the last Millennium?

What that has to do with my question? Being fascinated over pope emeritus and his books and believing in RC errors on papacy are two different things. For me the pope emeritus of Rome does carry a sort of signification of enchantment and wonder and I was saddened to hear that he will resign.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Peter J on March 01, 2013, 08:02:29 AM
Again we see the legalism of the Orthodox: we're without something for a couple weeks, so that's means it must be unnecessary.

;)

So why all the fanfare about the conclave and the next Pope?  If its unnecessary, then just have someone appoint a diocesan Bishop of Rome ;)

"Unnecessary" was your word, I just repeated it.

Jokes aside, isn't this period of sedevacante does put into question many claims about the Papacy brought forward by the Roman Catholic Church?  Like my earlier comment about the Church being built on Peter and that Peter only has one successor, what now?  On whom is the Church built on?  And how are the Churches of the Catholic Communion in communion with one another?  How are they "in communion with Rome" if there is no Bishop of Rome?
1. Peter was the rock and he always will be
2. We are in communion with one another. The times in which there is no Pope are a clear indication that our communion is more fundamentally founded in our common faith in Christ. When there is a Pope, we must be in communion, but this necessity is less fundamental than our communion in the faith. 
You may not like that answer because it does not fit your "disaffected Catholic" narrative, but such is life. No one, not even the authors of Pastor Aeternus thought that the Church suddenly ceases to exist when there is no Pope.

But as pointed out earlier, isn't it a clear indication that the Papacy is indeed unnecessary?
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: ErmyCath on March 01, 2013, 09:25:56 AM
Peter J - I like your "Faith" description in your profile.  Clever!   :)

I think this is the time for everyone to go to pre-1955 Masses since everyone is a sedevacantist now!
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Papist on March 01, 2013, 10:25:45 AM
Again we see the legalism of the Orthodox: we're without something for a couple weeks, so that's means it must be unnecessary.

;)

So why all the fanfare about the conclave and the next Pope?  If its unnecessary, then just have someone appoint a diocesan Bishop of Rome ;)
Yes, let's just get rid of all the fanfare. In fact, let's get rid of any unnecessary tradition, like the weird hats that Orthodox Bishops wear.  ::) <moderators,please note the sarcasm. I do not actually think EO bishop's hats are "weird">
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Alpo on March 01, 2013, 10:30:02 AM
In fact, let's get rid of any unnecessary tradition, like the weird hats that Orthodox Bishops wear. 

Oh you juridical Latins. Always spoiling all the mystery.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Schultz on March 01, 2013, 10:30:48 AM
The Pope of Rome, to us, does not carry a signification of enchantment, wonder, and filial delight like he carries for Roman Catholics. He's not usually something of great interest to us.

That said, there is something foreboding and creepy about this resignation. It doesn't sit well with me.

A few loose and cryptic thoughts. Cheers.

His resignation isn't as foreboding and creepy as all the conspiracy theories (and theorists, but the two go hand-in-hand) that have sprung up because a sick 85 year old bishop wants to retire to a monastery and not have the office he occupies become perceived as a joke as often happened when his sick predecessor took the stage to mumble a few words and break everyone's heart by having to watch said ill man being carted around like the showpiece he became.

Just a few loose and not-so-cryptic thoughts.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Papist on March 01, 2013, 10:50:55 AM
Peter J - I like your "Faith" description in your profile.  Clever!   :)

I think this is the time for everyone to go to pre-1955 Masses since everyone is a sedevacantist now!
Agreed! I was going to change mine, but I didn't want to be a copy-cat.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: dzheremi on March 01, 2013, 10:59:46 AM
The Pope of Rome, to us, does not carry a signification of enchantment, wonder, and filial delight like he carries for Roman Catholics. He's not usually something of great interest to us.

That said, there is something foreboding and creepy about this resignation. It doesn't sit well with me.

A few loose and cryptic thoughts. Cheers.

His resignation isn't as foreboding and creepy as all the conspiracy theories (and theorists, but the two go hand-in-hand) that have sprung up because a sick 85 year old bishop wants to retire to a monastery and not have the office he occupies become perceived as a joke as often happened when his sick predecessor took the stage to mumble a few words and break everyone's heart by having to watch said ill man being carted around like the showpiece he became.

Just a few loose and not-so-cryptic thoughts.

This is absolutely spot-on and reasonable. Now let us watch as somebody finds a reason to doubt it in favor of believing there's something fishy going on just because it's been a few hundred years since a Pope last resigned.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: J Michael on March 01, 2013, 11:05:00 AM
The Pope of Rome, to us, does not carry a signification of enchantment, wonder, and filial delight like he carries for Roman Catholics. He's not usually something of great interest to us.

That said, there is something foreboding and creepy about this resignation. It doesn't sit well with me.

A few loose and cryptic thoughts. Cheers.

Eh, Father??  "...a signification of enchantment, wonder, and filial delight."?  Not quite sure what you mean.   

His resignation doesn't need to sit well with you.  I think any creepiness and foreboding is you perhaps reading into it something that probably just isn't there.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Papist on March 01, 2013, 11:07:47 AM
The Pope of Rome, to us, does not carry a signification of enchantment, wonder, and filial delight like he carries for Roman Catholics. He's not usually something of great interest to us.

That said, there is something foreboding and creepy about this resignation. It doesn't sit well with me.

A few loose and cryptic thoughts. Cheers.

Eh, Father??  "...a signification of enchantment, wonder, and filial delight."?  Not quite sure what you mean.   

His resignation doesn't need to sit well with you.  I think any creepiness and foreboding is you perhaps reading into it something that probably just isn't there.
Agreed. I'm sad to see His Holiness, go. He was an scholarly, kind, and gentle man. But I have no feelings of "creepiness." Sometimes I think that non-Catholics endow the Papacy with more mistique than do Catholics.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: J Michael on March 01, 2013, 11:08:15 AM
The Pope of Rome, to us, does not carry a signification of enchantment, wonder, and filial delight like he carries for Roman Catholics. He's not usually something of great interest to us.

That said, there is something foreboding and creepy about this resignation. It doesn't sit well with me.

A few loose and cryptic thoughts. Cheers.

His resignation isn't as foreboding and creepy as all the conspiracy theories (and theorists, but the two go hand-in-hand) that have sprung up because a sick 85 year old bishop wants to retire to a monastery and not have the office he occupies become perceived as a joke as often happened when his sick predecessor took the stage to mumble a few words and break everyone's heart by having to watch said ill man being carted around like the showpiece he became.

Just a few loose and not-so-cryptic thoughts.

This is absolutely spot-on and reasonable. Now let us watch as somebody finds a reason to doubt it in favor of believing there's something fishy going on just because it's been a few hundred years since a Pope last resigned.

There's your cue, Choy  ;D.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: J Michael on March 01, 2013, 11:09:15 AM
The Pope of Rome, to us, does not carry a signification of enchantment, wonder, and filial delight like he carries for Roman Catholics. He's not usually something of great interest to us.

That said, there is something foreboding and creepy about this resignation. It doesn't sit well with me.

A few loose and cryptic thoughts. Cheers.

Eh, Father??  "...a signification of enchantment, wonder, and filial delight."?  Not quite sure what you mean.   

His resignation doesn't need to sit well with you.  I think any creepiness and foreboding is you perhaps reading into it something that probably just isn't there.
Agreed. I'm sad to see His Holiness, go. He was an scholarly, kind, and gentle man. But I have no feelings of "creepiness." Sometimes I think that non-Catholics endow the Papacy with more mistique than do Catholics.

Yes to all that!
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: ialmisry on March 01, 2013, 11:17:59 AM
The Pope of Rome, to us, does not carry a signification of enchantment, wonder, and filial delight like he carries for Roman Catholics. He's not usually something of great interest to us.

That said, there is something foreboding and creepy about this resignation. It doesn't sit well with me.

A few loose and cryptic thoughts. Cheers.

His resignation isn't as foreboding and creepy as all the conspiracy theories (and theorists, but the two go hand-in-hand) that have sprung up because a sick 85 year old bishop wants to retire to a monastery and not have the office he occupies become perceived as a joke as often happened when his sick predecessor took the stage to mumble a few words and break everyone's heart by having to watch said ill man being carted around like the showpiece he became.

Just a few loose and not-so-cryptic thoughts.
Just to add, a bishop who never wanted the promotion in the first place not wanting to cling to it when he is no longer up to it.

I look at the resignation as complimentary to the refusal of his predecessor (who considered it).  The one affirmed that when one became a shell of a former self, he remains a self and not refuse for gabbage disposal (like the fans of euthanasia would have it), the other affirmed that one does not have to cling to a role to remain a self.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: ialmisry on March 01, 2013, 11:20:26 AM
The Pope of Rome, to us, does not carry a signification of enchantment, wonder, and filial delight like he carries for Roman Catholics. He's not usually something of great interest to us.

That said, there is something foreboding and creepy about this resignation. It doesn't sit well with me.

A few loose and cryptic thoughts. Cheers.

Eh, Father??  "...a signification of enchantment, wonder, and filial delight."?  Not quite sure what you mean.   

His resignation doesn't need to sit well with you.  I think any creepiness and foreboding is you perhaps reading into it something that probably just isn't there.
Especially when the Vatican has mandated a retirement age for everyone else.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: ialmisry on March 01, 2013, 11:22:29 AM
The Pope of Rome, to us, does not carry a signification of enchantment, wonder, and filial delight like he carries for Roman Catholics. He's not usually something of great interest to us.

That said, there is something foreboding and creepy about this resignation. It doesn't sit well with me.

A few loose and cryptic thoughts. Cheers.

Eh, Father??  "...a signification of enchantment, wonder, and filial delight."?  Not quite sure what you mean.  

His resignation doesn't need to sit well with you.  I think any creepiness and foreboding is you perhaps reading into it something that probably just isn't there.
Agreed. I'm sad to see His Holiness, go. He was an scholarly, kind, and gentle man. But I have no feelings of "creepiness." Sometimes I think that non-Catholics endow the Papacy with more mistique than do Catholics.
Not more than it has. As for the followers of the Vatican, some have less mistique for the office than we do.  Others engage in outright idolatry.

Speaking of which, if the next one to take the office doesn't take or have the name Peter, we can put the Malachy prophecy in the same file with the Mayans.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Peter J on March 01, 2013, 11:39:49 AM
His resignation isn't as foreboding and creepy as all the conspiracy theories (and theorists, but the two go hand-in-hand) that have sprung up because a sick 85 year old bishop wants to retire to a monastery and not have the office he occupies become perceived as a joke as often happened when his sick predecessor took the stage to mumble a few words and break everyone's heart by having to watch said ill man being carted around like the showpiece he became.

What I can't understand is why the Mormons, the NSF, and Dick Cheney each paid JPII thousands of dollars a day for doing that.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Peter J on March 01, 2013, 11:40:41 AM
Peter J - I like your "Faith" description in your profile.  Clever!   :)

I think this is the time for everyone to go to pre-1955 Masses since everyone is a sedevacantist now!
Agreed! I was going to change mine, but I didn't want to be a copy-cat.

Thanks.

Actually, I'm surprised someone else didn't do it before me.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Peter J on March 01, 2013, 11:42:38 AM
Just to add, a bishop who never wanted the promotion in the first place not wanting to cling to it when he is no longer up to it.

I look at the resignation as complimentary to the refusal of his predecessor (who considered it).  The one affirmed that when one became a shell of a former self, he remains a self and not refuse for gabbage disposal (like the fans of euthanasia would have it), the other affirmed that one does not have to cling to a role to remain a self.

And complementary. :)
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Papist on March 01, 2013, 12:02:46 PM
The Pope of Rome, to us, does not carry a signification of enchantment, wonder, and filial delight like he carries for Roman Catholics. He's not usually something of great interest to us.

That said, there is something foreboding and creepy about this resignation. It doesn't sit well with me.

A few loose and cryptic thoughts. Cheers.

Eh, Father??  "...a signification of enchantment, wonder, and filial delight."?  Not quite sure what you mean.  

His resignation doesn't need to sit well with you.  I think any creepiness and foreboding is you perhaps reading into it something that probably just isn't there.
Agreed. I'm sad to see His Holiness, go. He was an scholarly, kind, and gentle man. But I have no feelings of "creepiness." Sometimes I think that non-Catholics endow the Papacy with more mistique than do Catholics.
Not more than it has. As for the followers of the Vatican, some have less mistique for the office than we do.  Others engage in outright idolatry.

Speaking of which, if the next one to take the office doesn't take or have the name Peter, we can put the Malachy prophecy in the same file with the Mayans.
Oh Isa, you are such a silly willy boy. I don't know anyone who worships the Pope, ya Luteran.  ;D
As for the Malachy prophecy, we already knew it was forgery.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: ialmisry on March 01, 2013, 12:51:52 PM
The Pope of Rome, to us, does not carry a signification of enchantment, wonder, and filial delight like he carries for Roman Catholics. He's not usually something of great interest to us.

That said, there is something foreboding and creepy about this resignation. It doesn't sit well with me.

A few loose and cryptic thoughts. Cheers.

Eh, Father??  "...a signification of enchantment, wonder, and filial delight."?  Not quite sure what you mean.  

His resignation doesn't need to sit well with you.  I think any creepiness and foreboding is you perhaps reading into it something that probably just isn't there.
Agreed. I'm sad to see His Holiness, go. He was an scholarly, kind, and gentle man. But I have no feelings of "creepiness." Sometimes I think that non-Catholics endow the Papacy with more mistique than do Catholics.
Not more than it has. As for the followers of the Vatican, some have less mistique for the office than we do.  Others engage in outright idolatry.

Speaking of which, if the next one to take the office doesn't take or have the name Peter, we can put the Malachy prophecy in the same file with the Mayans.
Oh Isa, you are such a silly willy boy. I don't know anyone who worships the Pope, ya Luteran.  ;D
Oh Papist, you silly willy boy. I'm not the only one with extensive interaction with the followers of the Vatican (including those where were former followers): so you want us all to believe you posts over our "lying" eyes and ears?

As for the Malachy prophecy, we already knew it was forgery.
Like the Donation of Constance and other false Decretals (a category to which Pastor Aeternus belongs).  You guys have a knack for putting up scaffolding of false timber, and then leaving the facade it has erected up once the timber has rotted enough that even you guys have to take it down.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: podkarpatska on March 01, 2013, 12:52:12 PM
The Pope of Rome, to us, does not carry a signification of enchantment, wonder, and filial delight like he carries for Roman Catholics. He's not usually something of great interest to us.

Have you ever read any of Ratzinger´s books?

What significance does it have to what has been taught about the Papacy over the last Millennium?

How about he is one of the great academic scholars of the Patristic era of the 20th century,a keen student of liturgy and he possessed the broadest knowledge of, and appreciation for, Orthodox teachings and spirituality of any Pope in say , the past thousand years or so for starters.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Papist on March 01, 2013, 01:00:13 PM
The Pope of Rome, to us, does not carry a signification of enchantment, wonder, and filial delight like he carries for Roman Catholics. He's not usually something of great interest to us.

That said, there is something foreboding and creepy about this resignation. It doesn't sit well with me.

A few loose and cryptic thoughts. Cheers.

Eh, Father??  "...a signification of enchantment, wonder, and filial delight."?  Not quite sure what you mean.  

His resignation doesn't need to sit well with you.  I think any creepiness and foreboding is you perhaps reading into it something that probably just isn't there.
Agreed. I'm sad to see His Holiness, go. He was an scholarly, kind, and gentle man. But I have no feelings of "creepiness." Sometimes I think that non-Catholics endow the Papacy with more mistique than do Catholics.
Not more than it has. As for the followers of the Vatican, some have less mistique for the office than we do.  Others engage in outright idolatry.

Speaking of which, if the next one to take the office doesn't take or have the name Peter, we can put the Malachy prophecy in the same file with the Mayans.
Oh Isa, you are such a silly willy boy. I don't know anyone who worships the Pope, ya Luteran.  ;D
Oh Papist, you silly willy boy. I'm not the only one with extensive interaction with the followers of the Vatican (including those where were former followers): so you want us all to believe you posts over our "lying" eyes and ears?

As for the Malachy prophecy, we already knew it was forgery.
Like the Donation of Constance and other false Decretals (a category to which Pastor Aeternus belongs).
Oh silly willy squishty wishy Izzy, I have never met anyone in my entire life who worships the Pope. You silly silly Lutheran goose. You Lutherans make this up to validate your protestantism. <hugs>

edited for hugs
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: J Michael on March 01, 2013, 01:04:15 PM
The Pope of Rome, to us, does not carry a signification of enchantment, wonder, and filial delight like he carries for Roman Catholics. He's not usually something of great interest to us.

That said, there is something foreboding and creepy about this resignation. It doesn't sit well with me.

A few loose and cryptic thoughts. Cheers.

Eh, Father??  "...a signification of enchantment, wonder, and filial delight."?  Not quite sure what you mean.  

His resignation doesn't need to sit well with you.  I think any creepiness and foreboding is you perhaps reading into it something that probably just isn't there.
Agreed. I'm sad to see His Holiness, go. He was an scholarly, kind, and gentle man. But I have no feelings of "creepiness." Sometimes I think that non-Catholics endow the Papacy with more mistique than do Catholics.
Not more than it has. As for the followers of the Vatican, some have less mistique for the office than we do.  Others engage in outright idolatry.

Speaking of which, if the next one to take the office doesn't take or have the name Peter, we can put the Malachy prophecy in the same file with the Mayans.
Oh Isa, you are such a silly willy boy. I don't know anyone who worships the Pope, ya Luteran.  ;D
Oh Papist, you silly willy boy. I'm not the only one with extensive interaction with the followers of the Vatican (including those where were former followers): so you want us all to believe you posts over our "lying" eyes and ears?

As for the Malachy prophecy, we already knew it was forgery.
Like the Donation of Constance and other false Decretals (a category to which Pastor Aeternus belongs).
Oh silly willy squishty wishy Izzy, I have never met anyone in my entire life who worships the Pope. You silly silly Lutheran goose. You Lutherans make this up to validate your protestantism. <hugs>

edited for hugs

Now boys...play nice, or I'm gonna have to send you both to your rooms.  :D :D.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: ialmisry on March 01, 2013, 01:05:46 PM
The Pope of Rome, to us, does not carry a signification of enchantment, wonder, and filial delight like he carries for Roman Catholics. He's not usually something of great interest to us.

That said, there is something foreboding and creepy about this resignation. It doesn't sit well with me.

A few loose and cryptic thoughts. Cheers.

Eh, Father??  "...a signification of enchantment, wonder, and filial delight."?  Not quite sure what you mean.  

His resignation doesn't need to sit well with you.  I think any creepiness and foreboding is you perhaps reading into it something that probably just isn't there.
Agreed. I'm sad to see His Holiness, go. He was an scholarly, kind, and gentle man. But I have no feelings of "creepiness." Sometimes I think that non-Catholics endow the Papacy with more mistique than do Catholics.
Not more than it has. As for the followers of the Vatican, some have less mistique for the office than we do.  Others engage in outright idolatry.

Speaking of which, if the next one to take the office doesn't take or have the name Peter, we can put the Malachy prophecy in the same file with the Mayans.
Oh Isa, you are such a silly willy boy. I don't know anyone who worships the Pope, ya Luteran.  ;D
Oh Papist, you silly willy boy. I'm not the only one with extensive interaction with the followers of the Vatican (including those where were former followers): so you want us all to believe you posts over our "lying" eyes and ears?

As for the Malachy prophecy, we already knew it was forgery.
Like the Donation of Constance and other false Decretals (a category to which Pastor Aeternus belongs).
Oh silly willy squishty wishy Izzy, I have never met anyone in my entire life who worships the Pope. You silly silly Lutheran goose. You Lutherans make this up to validate your protestantism. <hugs>

edited for hugs
Haven't we already dealt with this?

But take Pastor Aeternus, laying aside the tautology that it is infallible because it says he speaks infallibly: as Fr. Ambrose has actually posted, the Anglo-Irish Catechism of 1870, with its imprematur, states that "infallibility is a Protestant lie" claiming that it was a caricuture and slur that Protestants made against the papacy.

Because of my Irish background Keenan's Catechism fascinates me.

Keenan's Catechism was used throughout England and Ireland and parts of the United States.  It used to be published n the UK by Burnes and Oates, the UK publishers to the Holy See.

The Irish and the English were taught to explicitly deny papal infallibility.

This Anglo-Irish Catechism contained the following question:

.......... (Q) Must not Catholics believe the Pope in himself to be infallible?
.......... (A) This is a Protestant invention: it is no article of the Catholic faith.

Every little Catholic boy and girl learnt this by heart. The Pope is not infallible.
--------------------------------

In 1826, in the time of Pope Leo XII, the Bishops of Ireland wrote to the faithful Catholics of Ireland a "Declaration of the Archbishops and Bishops of the Roman Catholic Church in Ireland" :

"The Catholics of Ireland declare their belief that it is not an article of the Catholic faith, neither are they required to believe, that the Pope is infallible."

Of course 40 years later in 1870 when the Pope was declared infallible, the poor Irish bishops, probably now in some sort of material heresy, had to hastily backtrack and try to forget that they had ever taught their people that he was not.


They were also obliged to change Keenan's Catechism and its teaching. What was Catholic teaching in 1869 had become heresy in 1870.

After Vatican I and 1870, the question was omitted from the Catechism, but 26 years later in 1896, the following was added:

.......... "Q: Is the Pope infallible?
.......... A: Yes, the Pope is infallible.

.......... Q: But some Catholics, before the Vatican Council, denied the infallibility of the Pope, which was impugned by this very Catechism.
.......... A: Yes, they did so under the usual reservation, insofar as they then could grasp the mind of the Church, and subject to her future definitions, thus implicitly accepting the dogma."

Does anybody other than me have to smile at the logic of that last answer?  Declaring that the Pope is not infallible is an implicit assertion that he is!  :laugh:


God bless,
Fr Ambrose  o..o~

I thought so.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Peter J on March 01, 2013, 01:07:32 PM
The Pope of Rome, to us, does not carry a signification of enchantment, wonder, and filial delight like he carries for Roman Catholics. He's not usually something of great interest to us.

That said, there is something foreboding and creepy about this resignation. It doesn't sit well with me.

A few loose and cryptic thoughts. Cheers.

Eh, Father??  "...a signification of enchantment, wonder, and filial delight."?  Not quite sure what you mean.  

His resignation doesn't need to sit well with you.  I think any creepiness and foreboding is you perhaps reading into it something that probably just isn't there.
Agreed. I'm sad to see His Holiness, go. He was an scholarly, kind, and gentle man. But I have no feelings of "creepiness." Sometimes I think that non-Catholics endow the Papacy with more mistique than do Catholics.
Not more than it has. As for the followers of the Vatican, some have less mistique for the office than we do.  Others engage in outright idolatry.

Speaking of which, if the next one to take the office doesn't take or have the name Peter, we can put the Malachy prophecy in the same file with the Mayans.
Oh Isa, you are such a silly willy boy. I don't know anyone who worships the Pope, ya Luteran.  ;D
Oh Papist, you silly willy boy. I'm not the only one with extensive interaction with the followers of the Vatican (including those where were former followers)

Did I ever mention that my favorite literary genre is I used to be Catholic so you can believe me when I tell you that it's wrong  ? ;)
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Papist on March 01, 2013, 01:08:34 PM
The Pope of Rome, to us, does not carry a signification of enchantment, wonder, and filial delight like he carries for Roman Catholics. He's not usually something of great interest to us.

That said, there is something foreboding and creepy about this resignation. It doesn't sit well with me.

A few loose and cryptic thoughts. Cheers.

Eh, Father??  "...a signification of enchantment, wonder, and filial delight."?  Not quite sure what you mean.  

His resignation doesn't need to sit well with you.  I think any creepiness and foreboding is you perhaps reading into it something that probably just isn't there.
Agreed. I'm sad to see His Holiness, go. He was an scholarly, kind, and gentle man. But I have no feelings of "creepiness." Sometimes I think that non-Catholics endow the Papacy with more mistique than do Catholics.
Not more than it has. As for the followers of the Vatican, some have less mistique for the office than we do.  Others engage in outright idolatry.

Speaking of which, if the next one to take the office doesn't take or have the name Peter, we can put the Malachy prophecy in the same file with the Mayans.
Oh Isa, you are such a silly willy boy. I don't know anyone who worships the Pope, ya Luteran.  ;D
Oh Papist, you silly willy boy. I'm not the only one with extensive interaction with the followers of the Vatican (including those where were former followers): so you want us all to believe you posts over our "lying" eyes and ears?

As for the Malachy prophecy, we already knew it was forgery.
Like the Donation of Constance and other false Decretals (a category to which Pastor Aeternus belongs).
Oh silly willy squishty wishy Izzy, I have never met anyone in my entire life who worships the Pope. You silly silly Lutheran goose. You Lutherans make this up to validate your protestantism. <hugs>

edited for hugs
Haven't we already dealt with this?
No, you just made a Lutheran assertion that has no foundation in the real of experience of real Catholics.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Papist on March 01, 2013, 01:09:29 PM
The Pope of Rome, to us, does not carry a signification of enchantment, wonder, and filial delight like he carries for Roman Catholics. He's not usually something of great interest to us.

That said, there is something foreboding and creepy about this resignation. It doesn't sit well with me.

A few loose and cryptic thoughts. Cheers.

Eh, Father??  "...a signification of enchantment, wonder, and filial delight."?  Not quite sure what you mean.  

His resignation doesn't need to sit well with you.  I think any creepiness and foreboding is you perhaps reading into it something that probably just isn't there.
Agreed. I'm sad to see His Holiness, go. He was an scholarly, kind, and gentle man. But I have no feelings of "creepiness." Sometimes I think that non-Catholics endow the Papacy with more mistique than do Catholics.
Not more than it has. As for the followers of the Vatican, some have less mistique for the office than we do.  Others engage in outright idolatry.

Speaking of which, if the next one to take the office doesn't take or have the name Peter, we can put the Malachy prophecy in the same file with the Mayans.
Oh Isa, you are such a silly willy boy. I don't know anyone who worships the Pope, ya Luteran.  ;D
Oh Papist, you silly willy boy. I'm not the only one with extensive interaction with the followers of the Vatican (including those where were former followers)

Did I ever mention that my favorite literary genre is I used to be Catholic so you can believe me when I tell you that it's wrong  ? ;)
:D well done!
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: ialmisry on March 01, 2013, 01:10:06 PM
The Pope of Rome, to us, does not carry a signification of enchantment, wonder, and filial delight like he carries for Roman Catholics. He's not usually something of great interest to us.

That said, there is something foreboding and creepy about this resignation. It doesn't sit well with me.

A few loose and cryptic thoughts. Cheers.

Eh, Father??  "...a signification of enchantment, wonder, and filial delight."?  Not quite sure what you mean.  

His resignation doesn't need to sit well with you.  I think any creepiness and foreboding is you perhaps reading into it something that probably just isn't there.
Agreed. I'm sad to see His Holiness, go. He was an scholarly, kind, and gentle man. But I have no feelings of "creepiness." Sometimes I think that non-Catholics endow the Papacy with more mistique than do Catholics.
Not more than it has. As for the followers of the Vatican, some have less mistique for the office than we do.  Others engage in outright idolatry.

Speaking of which, if the next one to take the office doesn't take or have the name Peter, we can put the Malachy prophecy in the same file with the Mayans.
Oh Isa, you are such a silly willy boy. I don't know anyone who worships the Pope, ya Luteran.  ;D
Oh Papist, you silly willy boy. I'm not the only one with extensive interaction with the followers of the Vatican (including those where were former followers): so you want us all to believe you posts over our "lying" eyes and ears?

As for the Malachy prophecy, we already knew it was forgery.
Like the Donation of Constance and other false Decretals (a category to which Pastor Aeternus belongs).
Oh silly willy squishty wishy Izzy, I have never met anyone in my entire life who worships the Pope. You silly silly Lutheran goose. You Lutherans make this up to validate your protestantism. <hugs>

edited for hugs

Now boys...play nice, or I'm gonna have to send you both to your rooms.  :D :D.
You doing that with the cardinals?(http://cache2.asset-cache.net/gc/52619156-vatican-officials-seal-the-door-to-late-pope-gettyimages.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=OCUJ5gVf7YdJQI2Xhkc2QGe94jKwZtz1YQMVs%2FsXlzllDjK0eUotDW2ff0J1dqtB)
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Papist on March 01, 2013, 01:10:35 PM
I should just change my signature to "Ialmisry is a Lutheran." <note to moderators, not really going to do this>
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Papist on March 01, 2013, 01:11:08 PM
The Pope of Rome, to us, does not carry a signification of enchantment, wonder, and filial delight like he carries for Roman Catholics. He's not usually something of great interest to us.

That said, there is something foreboding and creepy about this resignation. It doesn't sit well with me.

A few loose and cryptic thoughts. Cheers.

Eh, Father??  "...a signification of enchantment, wonder, and filial delight."?  Not quite sure what you mean.  

His resignation doesn't need to sit well with you.  I think any creepiness and foreboding is you perhaps reading into it something that probably just isn't there.
Agreed. I'm sad to see His Holiness, go. He was an scholarly, kind, and gentle man. But I have no feelings of "creepiness." Sometimes I think that non-Catholics endow the Papacy with more mistique than do Catholics.
Not more than it has. As for the followers of the Vatican, some have less mistique for the office than we do.  Others engage in outright idolatry.

Speaking of which, if the next one to take the office doesn't take or have the name Peter, we can put the Malachy prophecy in the same file with the Mayans.
Oh Isa, you are such a silly willy boy. I don't know anyone who worships the Pope, ya Luteran.  ;D
Oh Papist, you silly willy boy. I'm not the only one with extensive interaction with the followers of the Vatican (including those where were former followers): so you want us all to believe you posts over our "lying" eyes and ears?

As for the Malachy prophecy, we already knew it was forgery.
Like the Donation of Constance and other false Decretals (a category to which Pastor Aeternus belongs).
Oh silly willy squishty wishy Izzy, I have never met anyone in my entire life who worships the Pope. You silly silly Lutheran goose. You Lutherans make this up to validate your protestantism. <hugs>

edited for hugs

Now boys...play nice, or I'm gonna have to send you both to your rooms.  :D :D.
You doing that with the cardinals?(http://cache2.asset-cache.net/gc/52619156-vatican-officials-seal-the-door-to-late-pope-gettyimages.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=OCUJ5gVf7YdJQI2Xhkc2QGe94jKwZtz1YQMVs%2FsXlzllDjK0eUotDW2ff0J1dqtB)
For some reason the picture is blocked. Is it something Lutheran?
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: ialmisry on March 01, 2013, 01:13:57 PM
The Pope of Rome, to us, does not carry a signification of enchantment, wonder, and filial delight like he carries for Roman Catholics. He's not usually something of great interest to us.

That said, there is something foreboding and creepy about this resignation. It doesn't sit well with me.

A few loose and cryptic thoughts. Cheers.

Eh, Father??  "...a signification of enchantment, wonder, and filial delight."?  Not quite sure what you mean.  

His resignation doesn't need to sit well with you.  I think any creepiness and foreboding is you perhaps reading into it something that probably just isn't there.
Agreed. I'm sad to see His Holiness, go. He was an scholarly, kind, and gentle man. But I have no feelings of "creepiness." Sometimes I think that non-Catholics endow the Papacy with more mistique than do Catholics.
Not more than it has. As for the followers of the Vatican, some have less mistique for the office than we do.  Others engage in outright idolatry.

Speaking of which, if the next one to take the office doesn't take or have the name Peter, we can put the Malachy prophecy in the same file with the Mayans.
Oh Isa, you are such a silly willy boy. I don't know anyone who worships the Pope, ya Luteran.  ;D
Oh Papist, you silly willy boy. I'm not the only one with extensive interaction with the followers of the Vatican (including those where were former followers): so you want us all to believe you posts over our "lying" eyes and ears?

As for the Malachy prophecy, we already knew it was forgery.
Like the Donation of Constance and other false Decretals (a category to which Pastor Aeternus belongs).
Oh silly willy squishty wishy Izzy, I have never met anyone in my entire life who worships the Pope. You silly silly Lutheran goose. You Lutherans make this up to validate your protestantism. <hugs>

edited for hugs
Haven't we already dealt with this?
No, you just made a Lutheran assertion that has no foundation in the real of experience of real Catholics.
We are the real Catholics.  As for Keenan, he was one of yours.
Quote
Because of my Irish background Keenan's Catechism fascinates me.

Keenan's Catechism was used throughout England and Ireland and parts of the United States.  It used to be published n the UK by Burnes and Oates, the UK publishers to the Holy See.

The Irish and the English were taught to explicitly deny papal infallibility.

This Anglo-Irish Catechism contained the following question:

.......... (Q) Must not Catholics believe the Pope in himself to be infallible?
.......... (A) This is a Protestant invention: it is no article of the Catholic faith.

Every little Catholic boy and girl learnt this by heart. The Pope is not infallible...

....In 1826, in the time of Pope Leo XII, the Bishops of Ireland wrote to the faithful Catholics of Ireland a "Declaration of the Archbishops and Bishops of the Roman Catholic Church in Ireland" :

"The Catholics of Ireland declare their belief that it is not an article of the Catholic faith, neither are they required to believe, that the Pope is infallible."

Of course 40 years later in 1870 when the Pope was declared infallible, the poor Irish bishops, probably now in some sort of material heresy, had to hastily backtrack and try to forget that they had ever taught their people that he was not.


They were also obliged to change Keenan's Catechism and its teaching. What was Catholic teaching in 1869 had become heresy in 1870.

After Vatican I and 1870, the question was omitted from the Catechism, but 26 years later in 1896, the following was added:

.......... "Q: Is the Pope infallible?
.......... A: Yes, the Pope is infallible.

.......... Q: But some Catholics, before the Vatican Council, denied the infallibility of the Pope, which was impugned by this very Catechism.
.......... A: Yes, they did so under the usual reservation, insofar as they then could grasp the mind of the Church, and subject to her future definitions, thus implicitly accepting the dogma."
Revisionism is very much the "foundation in the real of experience of real" followers of the Vatican.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: ialmisry on March 01, 2013, 01:14:32 PM
The Pope of Rome, to us, does not carry a signification of enchantment, wonder, and filial delight like he carries for Roman Catholics. He's not usually something of great interest to us.

That said, there is something foreboding and creepy about this resignation. It doesn't sit well with me.

A few loose and cryptic thoughts. Cheers.

Eh, Father??  "...a signification of enchantment, wonder, and filial delight."?  Not quite sure what you mean.  

His resignation doesn't need to sit well with you.  I think any creepiness and foreboding is you perhaps reading into it something that probably just isn't there.
Agreed. I'm sad to see His Holiness, go. He was an scholarly, kind, and gentle man. But I have no feelings of "creepiness." Sometimes I think that non-Catholics endow the Papacy with more mistique than do Catholics.
Not more than it has. As for the followers of the Vatican, some have less mistique for the office than we do.  Others engage in outright idolatry.

Speaking of which, if the next one to take the office doesn't take or have the name Peter, we can put the Malachy prophecy in the same file with the Mayans.
Oh Isa, you are such a silly willy boy. I don't know anyone who worships the Pope, ya Luteran.  ;D
Oh Papist, you silly willy boy. I'm not the only one with extensive interaction with the followers of the Vatican (including those where were former followers): so you want us all to believe you posts over our "lying" eyes and ears?

As for the Malachy prophecy, we already knew it was forgery.
Like the Donation of Constance and other false Decretals (a category to which Pastor Aeternus belongs).
Oh silly willy squishty wishy Izzy, I have never met anyone in my entire life who worships the Pope. You silly silly Lutheran goose. You Lutherans make this up to validate your protestantism. <hugs>

edited for hugs

Now boys...play nice, or I'm gonna have to send you both to your rooms.  :D :D.
You doing that with the cardinals?(http://cache2.asset-cache.net/gc/52619156-vatican-officials-seal-the-door-to-late-pope-gettyimages.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=OCUJ5gVf7YdJQI2Xhkc2QGe94jKwZtz1YQMVs%2FsXlzllDjK0eUotDW2ff0J1dqtB)
For some reason the picture is blocked. Is it something Lutheran?
Ask a Lutheran.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: dzheremi on March 01, 2013, 01:14:58 PM
The Pope of Rome, to us, does not carry a signification of enchantment, wonder, and filial delight like he carries for Roman Catholics. He's not usually something of great interest to us.

That said, there is something foreboding and creepy about this resignation. It doesn't sit well with me.

A few loose and cryptic thoughts. Cheers.

Eh, Father??  "...a signification of enchantment, wonder, and filial delight."?  Not quite sure what you mean.  

His resignation doesn't need to sit well with you.  I think any creepiness and foreboding is you perhaps reading into it something that probably just isn't there.
Agreed. I'm sad to see His Holiness, go. He was an scholarly, kind, and gentle man. But I have no feelings of "creepiness." Sometimes I think that non-Catholics endow the Papacy with more mistique than do Catholics.
Not more than it has. As for the followers of the Vatican, some have less mistique for the office than we do.  Others engage in outright idolatry.

Speaking of which, if the next one to take the office doesn't take or have the name Peter, we can put the Malachy prophecy in the same file with the Mayans.
Oh Isa, you are such a silly willy boy. I don't know anyone who worships the Pope, ya Luteran.  ;D
Oh Papist, you silly willy boy. I'm not the only one with extensive interaction with the followers of the Vatican (including those where were former followers)

Did I ever mention that my favorite literary genre is I used to be Catholic so you can believe me when I tell you that it's wrong  ? ;)


Hey, that's my favorite, too! Or at least it is much more tolerable than its competitors, You never understood Catholicism properly or else you would have never left and No, me calling you "invincibly ignorant" is actually my way of being nice and letting you off the hook for making a decision that you feel is not something you need to apologize for or explain in the first place, and in no way is this a paternalistic, crappy attitude on my part -- I'm actually doing it with love; you can tell, because I'm calling you "brother" the whole time
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: ialmisry on March 01, 2013, 01:15:12 PM
I should just change my signature to "Ialmisry is a Lutheran." <note to moderators, not really going to do this>
I didn't know that you were Lutheran.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: J Michael on March 01, 2013, 01:17:52 PM
The Pope of Rome, to us, does not carry a signification of enchantment, wonder, and filial delight like he carries for Roman Catholics. He's not usually something of great interest to us.

That said, there is something foreboding and creepy about this resignation. It doesn't sit well with me.

A few loose and cryptic thoughts. Cheers.

Eh, Father??  "...a signification of enchantment, wonder, and filial delight."?  Not quite sure what you mean.  

His resignation doesn't need to sit well with you.  I think any creepiness and foreboding is you perhaps reading into it something that probably just isn't there.
Agreed. I'm sad to see His Holiness, go. He was an scholarly, kind, and gentle man. But I have no feelings of "creepiness." Sometimes I think that non-Catholics endow the Papacy with more mistique than do Catholics.
Not more than it has. As for the followers of the Vatican, some have less mistique for the office than we do.  Others engage in outright idolatry.

Speaking of which, if the next one to take the office doesn't take or have the name Peter, we can put the Malachy prophecy in the same file with the Mayans.
Oh Isa, you are such a silly willy boy. I don't know anyone who worships the Pope, ya Luteran.  ;D
Oh Papist, you silly willy boy. I'm not the only one with extensive interaction with the followers of the Vatican (including those where were former followers): so you want us all to believe you posts over our "lying" eyes and ears?

As for the Malachy prophecy, we already knew it was forgery.
Like the Donation of Constance and other false Decretals (a category to which Pastor Aeternus belongs).
Oh silly willy squishty wishy Izzy, I have never met anyone in my entire life who worships the Pope. You silly silly Lutheran goose. You Lutherans make this up to validate your protestantism. <hugs>

edited for hugs

Now boys...play nice, or I'm gonna have to send you both to your rooms.  :D :D.
You doing that with the cardinals?(http://cache2.asset-cache.net/gc/52619156-vatican-officials-seal-the-door-to-late-pope-gettyimages.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=OCUJ5gVf7YdJQI2Xhkc2QGe94jKwZtz1YQMVs%2FsXlzllDjK0eUotDW2ff0J1dqtB)

What, now you're a cardinal, too?  ;D ;D
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Papist on March 01, 2013, 01:18:02 PM
I should just change my signature to "Ialmisry is a Lutheran." <note to moderators, not really going to do this>
I didn't know that you were Lutheran.

blah blah blah, I hate Catholics, blah blah blah, Map, Map, Map, blah blah blah
I'm a Lutheran.

Unfortunate
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: ialmisry on March 01, 2013, 01:35:50 PM
The Pope of Rome, to us, does not carry a signification of enchantment, wonder, and filial delight like he carries for Roman Catholics. He's not usually something of great interest to us.

That said, there is something foreboding and creepy about this resignation. It doesn't sit well with me.

A few loose and cryptic thoughts. Cheers.

Eh, Father??  "...a signification of enchantment, wonder, and filial delight."?  Not quite sure what you mean.  

His resignation doesn't need to sit well with you.  I think any creepiness and foreboding is you perhaps reading into it something that probably just isn't there.
Agreed. I'm sad to see His Holiness, go. He was an scholarly, kind, and gentle man. But I have no feelings of "creepiness." Sometimes I think that non-Catholics endow the Papacy with more mistique than do Catholics.
Not more than it has. As for the followers of the Vatican, some have less mistique for the office than we do.  Others engage in outright idolatry.

Speaking of which, if the next one to take the office doesn't take or have the name Peter, we can put the Malachy prophecy in the same file with the Mayans.
Oh Isa, you are such a silly willy boy. I don't know anyone who worships the Pope, ya Luteran.  ;D
Oh Papist, you silly willy boy. I'm not the only one with extensive interaction with the followers of the Vatican (including those where were former followers)

Did I ever mention that my favorite literary genre is I used to be Catholic so you can believe me when I tell you that it's wrong  ? ;)
I prefer the field of research cognitive dissonance in the followers of the Vatican, and their liminal presentation of their beliefs and the employment of plausible deniability.

I don't have to depend on your "literary genre."  I went to your schools, so I know what is taught in the Vatican's name, by those authorized to teach.

I listen to what the "apostolates" of the Vatican have to say.

I have plenty of relatives, friends and acquaintances in submission to the Vatican to observe.

I can read.  And your "magisterium" has put out plenty.

Of course, there are plenty of those who used to be in submission to the Vatican who therefor don't need to be told that it is wrong, and because of their own "lying eyes", also have no need of your "favorite literary genre."
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: biro on March 01, 2013, 01:36:15 PM
The Pope of Rome, to us, does not carry a signification of enchantment, wonder, and filial delight like he carries for Roman Catholics. He's not usually something of great interest to us.

That said, there is something foreboding and creepy about this resignation. It doesn't sit well with me.

A few loose and cryptic thoughts. Cheers.

Eh, Father??  "...a signification of enchantment, wonder, and filial delight."?  Not quite sure what you mean.  

His resignation doesn't need to sit well with you.  I think any creepiness and foreboding is you perhaps reading into it something that probably just isn't there.
Agreed. I'm sad to see His Holiness, go. He was an scholarly, kind, and gentle man. But I have no feelings of "creepiness." Sometimes I think that non-Catholics endow the Papacy with more mistique than do Catholics.
Not more than it has. As for the followers of the Vatican, some have less mistique for the office than we do.  Others engage in outright idolatry.

Speaking of which, if the next one to take the office doesn't take or have the name Peter, we can put the Malachy prophecy in the same file with the Mayans.
Oh Isa, you are such a silly willy boy. I don't know anyone who worships the Pope, ya Luteran.  ;D
Oh Papist, you silly willy boy. I'm not the only one with extensive interaction with the followers of the Vatican (including those where were former followers)

Did I ever mention that my favorite literary genre is I used to be Catholic so you can believe me when I tell you that it's wrong  ? ;)


Hey, that's my favorite, too! Or at least it is much more tolerable than its competitors, You never understood Catholicism properly or else you would have never left and No, me calling you "invincibly ignorant" is actually my way of being nice and letting you off the hook for making a decision that you feel is not something you need to apologize for or explain in the first place, and in no way is this a paternalistic, crappy attitude on my part -- I'm actually doing it with love; you can tell, because I'm calling you "brother" the whole time

You mean, just like the way you talk about Roman Catholics all the time?
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Papist on March 01, 2013, 01:38:58 PM

Of course, there are plenty of those who used to be in submission to the Vatican who therefor don't need to be told that it is wrong, and because of their own "lying eyes", also have no need of your "favorite literary genre."
Are they Missouri Synod like you?
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: ialmisry on March 01, 2013, 01:53:56 PM
I should just change my signature to "Ialmisry is a Lutheran." <note to moderators, not really going to do this>
I didn't know that you were Lutheran.

blah blah blah, I hate Catholics, blah blah blah, Map, Map, Map, blah blah blah
I'm a Lutheran.

Unfortunate
That you are Lutheran?  Well, you can change that.

Facts are stubborn things.  A shame some people can't face them, and have to resort to name calling.

btw, here's my Church. The building used to be Lutheran
(http://orthodoxwiki.org/thumb.php?f=Allsaints.jpg&width=180)
The Church is Orthodox (from the webpage):
Quote
All Saints’ Church in Chicago is a parish of the Antiochian Orthodox Christian Archdiocese of North America, an autonomous missionary jurisdiction of the ancient Patriarchate of Antioch. The bishops of our Archdiocese receive their authority and ministry from the current Patriarch of Antioch, Ignatius IV.

The Orthodox congregation at Antioch, in a continuous, unbroken succession going back to the Apostles themselves, has preserved, maintained, and—when pushed to it by the enemies of Christ—died for the apostolic faith once committed to the saints. We know that “the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch” (Acts 11:26). Among the early Christians who resided and/or ministered in that congregation, history records the names of Peter, Paul, Barnabas, Luke, Silas, and Ignatius I, the second bishop of that city, who died as a martyr in Rome in the year 107.

When the Muslim Turks captured the city of Antioch, the executive offices of the Patriarchate of Antioch was moved to Damascus, the civil capital of Syria, where they remain to this day “on the street called Straight.” (Acts 9:11).
http://www.allsaintsorthodox.org/about_us.php
Here's my son (as St. Patrick, a great Orthodox saint) inside:
(http://skellar.smugmug.com/photos/i-C9kV56H/2/M/i-C9kV56H-M.jpg)
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Papist on March 01, 2013, 01:58:22 PM
I should just change my signature to "Ialmisry is a Lutheran." <note to moderators, not really going to do this>
I didn't know that you were Lutheran.

blah blah blah, I hate Catholics, blah blah blah, Map, Map, Map, blah blah blah
I'm a Lutheran.

Unfortunate
That you are Lutheran?  Well, you can change that.

Facts are stubborn things.  A shame some people can't face them, and have to resort to name calling.

btw, here's my Church. The building used to be Lutheran
(http://orthodoxwiki.org/thumb.php?f=Allsaints.jpg&width=180)
The Church is Orthodox (from the webpage):
Quote
All Saints’ Church in Chicago is a parish of the Antiochian Orthodox Christian Archdiocese of North America, an autonomous missionary jurisdiction of the ancient Patriarchate of Antioch. The bishops of our Archdiocese receive their authority and ministry from the current Patriarch of Antioch, Ignatius IV.

The Orthodox congregation at Antioch, in a continuous, unbroken succession going back to the Apostles themselves, has preserved, maintained, and—when pushed to it by the enemies of Christ—died for the apostolic faith once committed to the saints. We know that “the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch” (Acts 11:26). Among the early Christians who resided and/or ministered in that congregation, history records the names of Peter, Paul, Barnabas, Luke, Silas, and Ignatius I, the second bishop of that city, who died as a martyr in Rome in the year 107.

When the Muslim Turks captured the city of Antioch, the executive offices of the Patriarchate of Antioch was moved to Damascus, the civil capital of Syria, where they remain to this day “on the street called Straight.” (Acts 9:11).
http://www.allsaintsorthodox.org/about_us.php
Here's my son (as St. Patrick, a great Orthodox saint) inside:
(http://skellar.smugmug.com/photos/i-C9kV56H/2/M/i-C9kV56H-M.jpg)
Haha, Well, it was nice of the Orthodox priest to let a family of Lutherans participate like this. My only fear is that the Orthodox priest will get in trouble with his bishop for all that evil ecumenism.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: ialmisry on March 01, 2013, 02:01:34 PM

Of course, there are plenty of those who used to be in submission to the Vatican who therefor don't need to be told that it is wrong, and because of their own "lying eyes", also have no need of your "favorite literary genre."
Are they Missouri Synod like me?

We're in the Antiochian Diocese of Toledo and the Midwest.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: Papist on March 01, 2013, 02:02:20 PM

Of course, there are plenty of those who used to be in submission to the Vatican who therefor don't need to be told that it is wrong, and because of their own "lying eyes", also have no need of your "favorite literary genre."
Are they Missouri Synod like me?

We're in the Antiochian Diocese of Toledo and the Midwest.
I'm not as well acquianted with Lutherans as you are. I didn't know that there were "Antiochian Lutherans."
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: PeterTheAleut on March 01, 2013, 02:04:42 PM
Papist and Ialmisry (and everyone else involved), knock off this personal back-and-forth about who's a Lutheran and get this thread back on topic.
Title: Re: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th
Post by: ialmisry on March 01, 2013, 02:10:01 PM
I should just change my signature to "Ialmisry is a Lutheran." <note to moderators, not really going to do this>
I didn't know that you were Lutheran.

blah blah blah, I hate Catholics, blah blah blah, Map, Map, Map, blah blah blah
I'm a Lutheran.

Unfortunate
That you are Lutheran?  Well, you can change that.

Facts are stubborn things.  A shame some people can't face them, and have to resort to name calling.

btw, here's my Church. The building used to be Lutheran
(http://orthodoxwiki.org/thumb.php?f=Allsaints.jpg&width=180)
The Church is Orthodox (from the webpage):
Quote
All Saints’ Church in Chicago is a parish of the Antiochian Orthodox Christian Archdiocese of North America, an autonomous missionary jurisdiction of the ancient Patriarchate of Antioch. The bishops of our Archdiocese receive their authority and ministry from the current Patriarch of Antioch, Ignatius IV.

The Orthodox congregation at Antioch, in a continuous, unbroken succession going back to the Apostles themselves, has preserved, maintained, and—when pushed to it by the enemies of Christ—died for the apostolic faith once committed to the saints. We know that “the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch” (Acts 11:26). Among the early Christians who resided and/or ministered in that congregation, history records the names of Peter, Paul, Barnabas, Luke, Silas, and Ignatius I, the second bishop of that city, who died as a martyr in Rome in the year 107.

When the Muslim Turks captured the city of Antioch, the executive offices of the Patriarchate of Antioch was moved to Damascus, the civil capital of Syria, where they remain to this day “on the street called Straight.” (Acts 9:11).
http://www.allsaintsorthodox.org/about_us.php
Here's my son (as St. Patrick, a great Orthodox saint) inside:
(http://skellar.smugmug.com/photos/i-C9kV56H/2/M/i-C9kV56H-M.jpg)
Haha, Well, it was nice of the Orthodox priest to let a family of Lutherans participate like this. My only fear is that the Orthodox priest will get in trouble with his bishop for all that evil ecumenism.
No, our priest won't commune followers of the Vatican, although he went to school there, Pontifical Institutes and all, and although he, like I, was a member of the Cardinal Ratzinger fan club from way back.
(http://i1.cpcache.com/product/352084644/ratzinger_fan_club_beer_stein_new.jpg?side=Back&color=NA&height=460&width=460)

We might say a prayer for the upcoming conclave, but we/he won't commemorate their choice in the DL.

I know we have some former Lutherans, but we have some of your fellow Lutherans at present?

Btw, someone brought up an interesting issue: since all the "sui juris&q