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Moderated Forums => Orthodox-Other Christian Discussion => Orthodox-Catholic Discussion => Topic started by: Jetavan on January 31, 2013, 08:25:35 AM

Title: Pope Benedict XVI says lack of ‘faith’ could be used in marriage annulments
Post by: Jetavan on January 31, 2013, 08:25:35 AM
I don't think this will lead to a decrease in annulments.

Quote
VATICAN CITY (RNS) Pope Benedict XVI has asked the Vatican’s (http://www.religionnews.com/2013/01/29/pope-benedict-xvi-says-lack-of-faith-could-be-used-in-marriage-annulments/) highest appeals court to consider reviewing church rules on marriage annulments — a statement that may signal a change in tone more than a change in substance.

Speaking on Saturday (Jan. 26) to the members of the tribunal of the Roman Rota, Benedict said that “lack of faith” on the part of the spouses can affect the validity of a marriage.
....
The pope said he wanted to “draw attention to how such a lack may, although not necessarily, also hurt the goods of marriage,” since faith in God is “a very important element for living in mutual dedication and conjugal fidelity.”
Title: Re: Pope Benedict XVI says lack of ‘faith’ could be used in marriage annulments
Post by: theistgal on January 31, 2013, 10:22:30 PM
That doesn't sound right to me. People sometimes lose their faith but I can't see how that would make their marriages invalid??
Title: Re: Pope Benedict XVI says lack of ‘faith’ could be used in marriage annulments
Post by: Asteriktos on January 31, 2013, 10:36:21 PM
I am really unfamiliar with this, but I thought annulments were about something being wrong and a valid marriage never taking place to begin with? This sounds like it says something along the lines of: "A valid marriage took place, but someone left the faith, so now we'll retroactively declare the marriage invalid because of a change during the course of the marriage." Or is he talking about marriages that took place when one of the people lacked faith from the start? I read the article but didn't really understand where exactly this was coming from...
Title: Re: Pope Benedict XVI says lack of ‘faith’ could be used in marriage annulments
Post by: Deacon Lance on January 31, 2013, 10:58:01 PM
I am really unfamiliar with this, but I thought annulments were about something being wrong and a valid marriage never taking place to begin with? This sounds like it says something along the lines of: "A valid marriage took place, but someone left the faith, so now we'll retroactively declare the marriage invalid because of a change during the course of the marriage." Or is he talking about marriages that took place when one of the people lacked faith from the start? I read the article but didn't really understand where exactly this was coming from...

The latter.

"Benedict said it was “particularly sad” to see people marry in the church out of tradition instead of a faith commitment only to subsequently find faith and remarry."
Title: Re: Pope Benedict XVI says lack of ‘faith’ could be used in marriage annulments
Post by: Asteriktos on January 31, 2013, 11:02:13 PM
Ahh, thank you! I shouldn't have missed that :)
Title: Re: Pope Benedict XVI says lack of ‘faith’ could be used in marriage annulments
Post by: Shiny on January 31, 2013, 11:44:37 PM
I agree with the Pope.
Title: Re: Pope Benedict XVI says lack of ‘faith’ could be used in marriage annulments
Post by: Cyrillic on February 01, 2013, 05:39:51 AM
I agree with the Pope.

I don't and neither does St. Paul.

Quote
Now to the married I command, yet not I but the Lord: A wife is not to depart from her husband.  But even if she does depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband. And a husband is not to divorce his wife. But to the rest I, not the Lord, say: If any brother has a wife who does not believe, and she is willing to live with him, let him not divorce her. And a woman who has a husband who does not believe, if he is willing to live with her, let her not divorce him. For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband; otherwise your children would be unclean, but now they are holy (1 Corinthians 7:10-14)
Title: Re: Pope Benedict XVI says lack of ‘faith’ could be used in marriage annulments
Post by: xariskai on February 01, 2013, 05:45:32 AM
This does seem to directly contradict St. Paul, though less clearly so, perhaps, with the caveat:

"Benedict stressed he wasn’t suggesting an automatic link “between the lack of faith and the invalidity of marriage,” but seemed to equate a “lack of faith” with other justifications for an annulment."

Not that I'm a fan of the whole annulment business in RC.
Title: Re: Pope Benedict XVI says lack of ‘faith’ could be used in marriage annulments
Post by: Kerdy on February 01, 2013, 06:04:51 AM
This is interesting, but the Roman Catholic Church has always had an odd view of marriage in a sense.  I have heard if a person does not marry in the Catholic Church, the Catholic Church does not recognize that marriage as legitimate.
Title: Re: Pope Benedict XVI says lack of ‘faith’ could be used in marriage annulments
Post by: Jetavan on February 01, 2013, 07:22:02 AM
This is interesting, but the Roman Catholic Church has always had an odd view of marriage in a sense.  I have heard if a person does not marry in the Catholic Church, the Catholic Church does not recognize that marriage as legitimate.
I think that's only if the person is Catholic; if both persons are non-Catholic, then the marriage can be legitimate if not done in a church.
Title: Re: Pope Benedict XVI says lack of ‘faith’ could be used in marriage annulments
Post by: Kerdy on February 01, 2013, 07:24:04 AM
This is interesting, but the Roman Catholic Church has always had an odd view of marriage in a sense.  I have heard if a person does not marry in the Catholic Church, the Catholic Church does not recognize that marriage as legitimate.
I think that's only if the person is Catholic; if both persons are non-Catholic, then the marriage can be legitimate if not done in a church.
I think you are right.  So, I wonder if this could be one of the things he was speaking on, when one becomes Catholic and the other does not.
Title: Re: Pope Benedict XVI says lack of ‘faith’ could be used in marriage annulments
Post by: Jetavan on February 01, 2013, 07:26:46 AM
This is interesting, but the Roman Catholic Church has always had an odd view of marriage in a sense.  I have heard if a person does not marry in the Catholic Church, the Catholic Church does not recognize that marriage as legitimate.
I think that's only if the person is Catholic; if both persons are non-Catholic, then the marriage can be legitimate if not done in a church.
I think you are right.  So, I wonder if this could be one of the things he was speaking on, when one becomes Catholic and the other does not.
Possibly, but I think he was more focused on the state of both parties at the time of marriage.
Title: Re: Pope Benedict XVI says lack of ‘faith’ could be used in marriage annulments
Post by: Peter J on February 01, 2013, 12:10:44 PM
This is interesting, but the Roman Catholic Church has always had an odd view of marriage in a sense.  I have heard if a person does not marry in the Catholic Church, the Catholic Church does not recognize that marriage as legitimate.
I think that's only if the person is Catholic; if both persons are non-Catholic, then the marriage can be legitimate if not done in a church.

Right; and even if they are Catholic, I believe it is possible to get the bishop's permission to have the wedding elsewhere.
Title: Re: Pope Benedict XVI says lack of ‘faith’ could be used in marriage annulments
Post by: ialmisry on February 01, 2013, 12:55:36 PM
Korban.
Title: Re: Pope Benedict XVI says lack of ‘faith’ could be used in marriage annulments
Post by: Alpo on February 01, 2013, 01:07:01 PM
I can't help thinking that everything seems to be in constant flux in present Catholicism. Yet another development of doctrine.